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Home My WebLink About1,219 - September 10, 2024 signedMINUTES OF THE 1,219th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, September 10, 2024, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,219th Public Hearing and Regular Meetings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. Members present: Wafa Dinaro Sam Caramagno Glen Long Peter Ventura lan Wilshaw Patrick Droze Members absent: David Bongero Mr. Scott Miller, Planner IV, and Stephanie Reece, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2024-08-01-04 Sheetz Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2024- 08-01-04 submitted by Skilken Gold under Section 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting to rezone the property at 37355 Eight Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Eight Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Northwest '/ of Section 5, from C-1 (Local Business District) to C-2 (General Business District). Mr. Miller: This rezoning change would facilitate the development of a Sheetz gas station, convenience store and restaurant. The Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Miller: September 10, 2024 31560 subject property contains a two-story commercial building that is currently vacant. Due to the slope of the site, the building has a one-story appearance from Eight Mile Road. The site formerly contained a Rite Aid drug store facing Eight Mile Road and a Caddy Shack golf shop that faced Newburgh Road. The area to be rezoned measures approximately 79,880 square feet, which is 1.83 acres. You have 264 feet along Eight Mile Road by 285 feet along Newburgh Road. To the north, you have the City of Farmington Hills, to the west, across Newburgh Road, you have Greenmead Historical Park, which is zoned PL, and to the south and east, you have the Whispering Willows Golf Course, which is also zoned PL. Gas stations and drive through restaurants are treated as a waiver use in C-2 district. Thus, if the zoning change moves forward, the next step would be a review of site plan by the Planning Commission and City Council. The preliminary plan shows a one story, 6,139 square foot building near the middle of the site. Access would be provided by two driveways, one on Eight Mile Road and one on Newburgh Road. Along Eight Mile, the plans show six fuel pumps with the capacity to accommodate 12 vehicles. Parking for up to 55 cars are shown along the building's north, south and west sides. A drive through pickup window is shown on the south side of the building. The exterior of the building would be constructed out of brick and cast stone. Outside patios are shown along the north and east side of the building. That is the extent of this proposal and with that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Yes, please. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated August 22, 2024, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed rezoning at this time but would like to note the following items: 1. The subject parcel is assigned the address of #37355 Eight Mile Road. if additional addresses are required, the developer should contact this office after site plans have been approved. 2. The legal description included with the submitted drawings appears to be correct and should be used in conjunction with this project should the rezoning be approved. 3. The existing parcel is currently serviced by public sanitary sewer, water main and storm sewer. The submitted drawings do not include any information regarding proposed services to the buildings, but the design Engineers for the project have been in contact with this office and are aware of this Departments' requirements. We will review the proposed services once design drawings are submitted for permitting. 4. As noted, design calculations are not shown on the submitted Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Long: Mr. Miller: Mr. Long: Mr. Miller: September 10, 2024 31561 drawings, but the project will be required to meet the Wayne County Stormwater Ordinance, including storm water detention requirements. 5. A traffic study for the intersection should be completed to determine if either of the access points would need to have restricted turn movements. Existing traffic backs up past the proposed access points during the evening rush hour, so turning movements from the site may need to be restricted. 6. No grading plans are included with the drawings, but we have concerns for the proposed parking lot and drive approach grades. The existing site has a large grade difference between the north and south side. The developer will need to make sure that pavement and walkway slopes do not exceed allowable maximums. 7. Any work within the floodplain will require permits from the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy (EGLE). 8. Any work within the Eight Mile Road right-of- way will require permits from the Wayne County Department of Public Service." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated August 28, 2024, which reads as follows: "/ have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next correspondence is from the Treasurer's Department, dated September 6, 2024, which reads as follows: "All taxes and water payments are current on this property at this time" The letter is signed by Susie Nash, Treasurer. That is the extent of the correspondence. Okay, thank you, Mr. Miller, and we did receive a copy, I believe, in our packet, of the traffic study that was done for this property. Correct. Yes. Okay, so that satisfies one of those issues that was raised. Are there any questions for our planning staff? Scott, I missed the study meeting with the power outage, but so is the intent for them to bring that...they want...they have a drive through on the south side, are they intending to bring that back, end, back up to grade? That question should be directed to the Petitioner. I mean, I can ask them!, but I didn't know, because I think it is pretty... Yes, the site's grade looks problematic so, yeah, I'm curious how they're going to address it. Mr. Long: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Droze: Mr. Miller: Mr. Droze: Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31562 I didn't know if we were aware of that yet. And, you know, I realized that this is just zoning at this point, but I think that's a significant factor in this. We'II have to ask the petitioner, I guess. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Long. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Chair. One point of clarification or question. During our study session, we talked about the future land use for this particular parcel, and I don't think it was noted in the packet, but at the meeting, we discussed that the change of this parcel to a parks and community designation likely was an oversight, and it was intended to remain commercial. I just want to maybe... That's correct, it was this classification before the Rite Aid. It was never changed after being rezoned to commercial...and remained Parks and Community. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Droze. Any other questions or comments to our planning staff? If not, I'll ask if the petitioners in our audience feel free to come forward. And again, I do want to iterate, as has already been mentioned, that the request before us tonight is for a rezoning request. So, the focus of our meeting tonight is going to be on the change of zoning from C-1 to C-2, which is a change in commercial zoning. There will be some discussion about the site plan and how this property is going to be used, but we're not going to be giving detailed review at this point of the building and building materials and so on. So, we're going to try to focus our comments mostly on the zoning. Is this an appropriate change of zoning. So, with that, good evening, sir, we'll ask you to start with your name and address. Drew Miller, Skilken Gold Real Estate Development, 4270 Morris Road, Columbus, Ohio. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for being here. Mr. Miller: Thank you and good evening to the members of the commissioners and city staff. Thank you for your view of this project tonight. We were really happy to be back in front of you with this new location for proposed Sheetz. With us tonight is John Cecil from Wade Trim, who is our engineer, so if there is some concerns about the grade or anything revolving that or the traffic, we're happy to answer those questions. Alex Siwicki, with Mr. Wilshaw: Alex Siwicki, Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Miller: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Siwicki: September 10, 2024 31563 Sheetz, is here as well, and he's going to take over and explain a little bit more about what's proposed. Thank you, Sheetz, 39300 West 12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, Michigan. I do have a PowerPoint presentation this evening. Mr. Miller, do you think it's possible to bring it up? Well, I'm going to give you the backstory on Sheetz, and then we'll get into the site specifics here. Mr. Siwicki, right before you start that, Scott, I don't know if you can turn the TV on this behind. Sorry...hopefully I can. If it's not going to play nice, that's fine. But for some reason, I don't know, I tend to like to look over there. Okay, thanks. All right, go ahead. Mr. Siwicki. Can you go to the next slide please. Okay, so Sheetz was founded in 1952 by Bob Sheetz in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Over 70 years later, now we are still family owned and operated with over 750 plus locations. We actually just opened one up this morning down in the Toledo area, so I've been traveling across state lines today. We originally started as a restaurant and carry out, and that very much holds true to our values today. As you can see on the next slide here, we are still family owned and operated. There are no franchises in our company. All our stores are 100% corporately owned, and they're run and managed by the Sheetz family. So about 16 people of this tree here that you see come and work in our business every single day. Moving on to the next slide. So, getting to that restaurant and carry out mentality, you can see that we offer a full kitchen. So, we call it MTO. You'll see that logo in some places, but it stands for made to order. You can get all sorts of combinations out of our kitchen. Last time we calculated, you can get 1.8 million different combinations out of our menu. So that means you can get...these are really bland recommendations, but you can get a breakfast sandwich at three in the afternoon, or you can get a salad at three in the morning. We also have Sheetz brothers coffee. You can get, again, you can make it any way you want it, but you can get your specialty coffee drinks. You can get smoothies; you can get milkshakes. You can get more. And then that convenience option. We have an incredible convenience offer in our stores, you can get all the snacks and drinks you can think of, and all the way down to all your grocery items, like bread, eggs and bacon. We September 10, 2024 31564 have in that restaurant, we have 30 interior seats, and we have up to, or I shouldn't say up to, we have 16 seats outside so you can, you know, sit down after you order your food. You can eat. You can join a conversation with friends, send off an email, whatever it is that you need to do. You order that food on our touchpad menus, which you can see in the middle photo there. So, you literally walk up to the kiosk. Just click on the screen however you want to order, whatever you want to order, and we'll make it up for you. We have that same technology out at our drive throughs. So when you pull up to our drive through which this location is proposed to have, instead of talking to someone, you can actually touch on the screen what you would like to order, pull it around, and we hopefully will have it ready for you. So, getting into a little bit of our building. We do a state-of-the-art building. Our buildings are top notch, and they look incredible. So, we have four-sided architecture. That means our buildings look good from just about every angle you can look at them. We use full section brick and stone. We have great selection of architectural metals, great color palette. The buildings really do look awesome. Again, like I said, we also have that outdoor seating. You are a great PowerPoint clicker, you're on it. So, we take our local investment in benefits to the community seriously. So, this location is going to be around a ten million investment for us, a lot of which is the geotechnical concern, which we'll discuss the grading here in a minute. Much of our construction investment is spent locally, using local contractors, and all of our engineering work, like John over here, is spent on local firms. This location will have 30 to 35 jobs, primarily full-time employment, if an employee's availability allows, we always prefer to have full time. The tax assessments on this property will most certainly increase, which is always a plus. But then we also give back to the community. So, we have a few different charities at Sheetz. One of them is Sheetz for the kids. We also do donations to local food banks. So, this store, every single week is going to make donation to the local food bank. And we also partner with Special Olympics at every level, so national, state and local. And then we also do plenty of donations to local schools and organizations, you know, drama guild, the T ball club, those type of things. So, getting into those employees, those 30 to 35 jobs, we really believe in being a top- notch employer. So, we offer full medical, dental, vision, paid time off, parental leave, employee assistance programs, retirement, bonuses, tuition reimbursement, and of course, you got to get your MTO while you're there, get your food and drink discount. To prove what a good employer we are, I just want to talk about some of the notable awards that we've won just this year. And one we actually just won this morning. I was able to sneak that in here a little bit. So great place to work. And People Magazine has September 10, 2024 31565 recognized Sheetz as one of the top 100 companies to work for in the entire country. We actually ranked number nine this year, great place to work. And Fortune Magazine, which you'll recommend or recognize from the Fortune 500 also named Sheetz one of the top 100 companies to work for. And then Newsweek and also great places to work, named Sheetz the second-best retailer in the entire country to work for. We got that one this morning, number two. So, we're really pumped today. So enough about Sheetz culture. Let's talk about this site specifically. So, this is a request for a rezone from C-1 (Local business) to C- 2 (General Business). So, 6,139 square foot building, convenience store, restaurant, gas station, located southeast corner of Eight Mile and Newburgh roads. So, there's a little map there. As the planner said earlier, it is 1.3 acres, and it has six fueling pumps with 12 stations and convenience drive thru. Another look at the elevations to see that full section, brick and stone, the colors and metals that we use. It's a really good-looking building. Here's the site plan. I know you've all seen it, and it's kind of small up on this screen, but we do have parking on all the sides the building down towards the south. There canopy kind of central to the north, and the two cuts onto the two public right of ways. I wanted to show you guys the sidewalk plan of the building. This is kind of a specific question that came up during the planning session, but this kind of shows where the seating is going to be, that there's plenty of room to maneuver around that seating. This is the floor plan. It's pretty busy inside our stores. We do offer a lot of things, so you guys will be able to take a look at that. If you guys haven't been to our first location in Michigan, down in Romulus, I would encourage you to do so that location is bigger than this one, but once you go in, you're going to get the same general feel. And finally, I have some photos of some real - life stores in operation. This is one of our canopy and building. This is on the south side of Columbus, Ohio. Now, another one up close in person of our main entrance. That is our indoor seating area, and you can see the touch order screens a little bit better there. And that one is another view of the canopy and the building. And then finally, to the request, so a reminder, this request is for a rezone from C-1 (Local business) to C-2 (General business), and with that, I am here to answer your questions. Mr. Wilshaw: All right, thank you. Let's see if we have any questions for you. Any questions from any of our commissioners at this point? Mr. Droze: Included with our packet was a traffic study. And I guess as we look at rezoning this parcel, I think you've demonstrated that you can make your product work within the site. Is Sheetz in concurrence with the traffic study and prepared to make those Mr. Siwicki: Mr. Droze: September 10, 2024 31566 recommendation, excuse me, recommended improvements as part of future project? So, we're still looking at the traffic study and making sure feasibility of the construction recommendations by in general, yes, we agree with the recommendation. And then my second question was regarding the stormwater management. So, there's, I think, rather significant erosion issues within the Whispering Willows golf course adjacent and I guess I'm just looking for concurrence that full compliance with Wayne County stormwater is intended. Mr. Siwicki: Absolutely. They wouldn't issue a permit otherwise. Thank you. Mr. Droze: Nothing further. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Mr. Droze. Any other questions for our petitioner? Mr. Long: As I stated earlier, I'd like to understand what you're planning to do on the south side. And as a frequent visitor to Whispering Willows, I'm very concerned about that stormwater runoff as well. Mr. Siwicki: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Sure. So the soils there are quite bad. If you guys are familiar with the site, the building is kind of falling down. If you look at historical images from Google Earth, you can actually see the amount of concrete on the lot has become larger and larger over time. So, we're anticipating spending about one and a half million to remediate the geotechnical concern on site. So that will involve digging out all the bad soils, replacing them, bringing it up to a relatively flat grade, and that would include a retaining wall and special foundations for a building. Thank you. Mr. Long any other questions? I understand and you described, I thought very well at the study session, how you're going to bring big stone in there and build a site up so that it's stable when you put your building on top of it. However, the elevation at the entrance off of Newburgh Road can't change, correct? So, what will the grade difference be between the restaurant at the floor level of the restaurant and the elevation at the entrance? Mr. Siwicki: John, you happen to have that answer? Our engineer will be able to answer that better. September 10, 2024 31567 John Cecil, Wade Trim, 1145 Wade Moon Street, Grosse Point Park, Michigan. To answer that question, we understand that the entrance elevations are set. We've set the elevation of the building in such a manner that it's not going to be exceeding any sort of steep slopes. We're anticipating somewhere around a three and a half percent slope down through that entrance. Actually, that entrance comes into the site. So we are respecting those slopes. We are going to make that work and meet within tolerance. So we're expecting somewhere around a 3% - 4% slope coming from the Newburgh up into the site. Mr. Ventura: Mr. Cecil: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Cecil: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: In terms of feet., it's probably about three feet, I don't know offhand, exactly. Three feet over what distance? Probably about 100. Alright. You. Thank you. Any other questions for our petitioners? Mr. Caramagno: Mr. Siwicki, tell us, you know, we're entertaining rezoning this property, why is this a good location for a Sheetz store? Mr. Siwicki: I mean, this is a great location. Let's put it that way. We take a lot of pride in our site selection. We look at traffic patterns. We look at consumer spending data. A whole lot of algorithms go into that, and then also the gut feeling of our real estate personnel. You know, they have an excellent track record over the past 70 years of selecting awesome sites. This is going to serve a great demand in the community. Right in this general area, there's not too much comparable offer. So that's why we believe it's going to be a great spot. Mr. Caramagno: Do you expect to pull majority of your business off of the local roads, the local neighborhoods, or do you expect to pull business off the highway? Or combination of all. Mr. Siwicki: Mr. Wilshaw: I would say a combination. Thank you. Mr. Caramagno. Any other questions? No other questions from any of the commissioners. Then I will go to our audience. I'm going to give our audience members a chance to speak. You just want to sit for a moment Mr. Siwicki. Folks in our September 10, 2024 31568 audience are welcome to come forward to our podium, and again, we'll ask that you start with your name and address. Dave Hall, 37300 West Eight Mile, Farmington Hills, Michigan. Thank you, Commissioners for listening to us tonight. I'm disagreeing with my friend from Sheetz. If you look at the traffic in that area, I live right on Eight Mile. This is going to be right across from my house. I have a picture of my house that I'd like to show everybody, and the front room, the front room to the right, that's my bedroom. So, I'm going to be getting lights. Mr. Wilshaw: You can just pass it to Ms. Reece. Mr. Hall: From their building all day and all night. This is 24/7, 365 days a year. The traffic is already unbearable there. At five o'clock I cannot get out of my driveway. This is going to cause major accidents. I mean, I've got kids that drive. We own a landscape business also that we run out of our house. We're grandfathered in from Farmington Hills. We've owned this company. We've owned the house for 40 years. I've owned this company for over 40 years. We started this thing when we were kids. So, I'm deathly afraid of my kids pulling out. They've got to go three lanes to make a left-hand turn, and now we got cars coming eastbound. I'm telling you this, there's going to be accidents. You can see the accidents already. There's an accident every other week on that corner. I mean, bad accidents. We hear it all the time. The light, the lighting in this, on these buildings, you can see how lit up they are, I mean, and this is going to be in my yard. I have no privacy. I'm going to have no privacy at all. 24/7, 365, days a year. It just...this cannot happen. We love to open our windows. We got windows, big, beautiful windows. We love opening them at night to get a breeze into our bedroom, and it's beautiful. I'm not going to be able to do that anymore. I'm going to be listening to riff raff and all kind of...they sell beer and wine here. I mean, three o'clock in the morning, the gentleman already said three o'clock in the morning they're going to be able to go in and get a salad. And this is...this is outrageous traffic. And you can call this what you want, but all I know about Sheetz, and I've read on them, this is a truck stop. This is a truck stop. And 1-275 is one mile down the street. So, they cannot tell me that they're not going to have semis in this place. And then this eating deck we just found out about on the southeast side, or the east side of the building. That's again, this is what I got to deal with. It's already bad enough that I got to deal with Whispering Willows having a party there, and their band playing till midnight, that I have to deal with, and now I got to deal with this. I just hope you guys turn this down. I don't think we need it in our community. They can go to Five Mile and Haggerty or anywhere that's don't need to go here. So, my wife you very much. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for your comments. evening, September 10, 2024 31569 a big commercial area, they and I, we oppose this. Thank We appreciate that. Good Ralph McNabb, 36372 Fairway, Livonia, MI. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. I've got a couple of copies of my presentation here, if you'd like to see. I wasn't able to print out too many. So tonight, I'd like to speak that as a crow fly, my house is 2,500 feet from this property across the golf course. But more importantly, it's downstream to this product, this property, and talk about that in just a second. The bottom line to this is, what's being proposed is taking a bundled business that is clearly permitted in a C-3 zoning classification and rezoning a piece of property that is clearly and appropriately and presently classified as C-1 by reclassifying it as a C-2 with justifying with waivers. Now let that sink in. Basically, allowing a business that belongs next to an expressway off ramp, not in a residential neighborhood. The topography of this property is horrendous. You've noted that here tonight, if you look off Eight Mile to the south, that property drops at least 20 feet. You look off to the east, it drops another 10 to 15, maybe 20 feet, and it's all into the golf course. But more importantly, it drops into a stream back there, and that stream connects up to the Bell branch, which also connects up to the Rouge River. If we get a spill, it's going to be devastating. It goes through the golf course and runs past our houses, back through the golf course, back to the other golf course on Seven Mile and out through that property, a spill would be devastating. The wildlife that's in those ponds...if you pull up one of his slides up there that shows the property with the ponds...the golf course, you'll see clearly, nope, keep going. Thank you. There's one that is an aerial view that shows ponds. It's not this one, but there's another one that has ponds of the golf course, and they're right there next to it. It's within 20-30, feet to the to the east and the and the where the yellow line is at the bottom there, that's that creek that runs through there. But there's a pond. You can just see it squeaking out in the top left or right corner up there. There's a pond there. The traffic patterns. It's horrific. The egress problems on to Eight Mile and Newburgh is going to be a problem. If you see my slide there, number four, you can see the red arrows. Those are the problem points that you're going to see. You have to go across the different lanes, but it's not conducive at that point. That's why the drugstore didn't make it there, I'm sure. It's very difficult for people to get in and out and now you're talking about trying to get a large 12,000- gallon oil tanker in there. 96,000 pounds on that property. You're September 10, 2024 31570 going to build it up, and then you're going to expect a 96,000- pound trailer full of fuel to pull in there to load up the fuel tanks. There's no good way to exit the property going west or going south, and it's not just at five o'clock in the afternoon. The undesirable noises and smells from a gas station, regardless of the wind directions, you can look at any one of those directions, north, south, east, west, or points in between. It's all residential. Any type of operation like this is best suited, not in a residential setting. The potential for contamination into the residential water system. There's a 40-inch water main that goes right into that corner from Eight Mile. There's waterworks just down the street there on Eight Mile. The main line for all of those residential properties comes through that corner. If anything happens to that water line, we're all screwed. The potential for crime, according to FBI statistics, in 2022 convenience stores and gas stations were the site of 14% of the robberies and 5% of violent crime. Shoplifting by juveniles, multiple customers in the stores create problems. Who wants this problem in their neighborhood, especially when the higher crime translates into higher insurance rates. There's also a 2020 study by the FBI that talks about the robberies, homicides, convenience stores, number four on the list of those crimes. Do we really need a gas station right there? Do we need that convenience store? The takeaway, there are no less than 18 gas stations within a 2.5-mile radius. I showed you the map on the paper there. All of them are not in a residential area for good reasons. Let's be honest. You really want this in your neighborhood. Let's talk about the rezoning. Rezoning from C-1 to C-2. The major concern for this form of business at the proposed location are problems of noise, odor, lighting, fumes, dust, danger of fire, an explosion, crime and traffic. C1 is classified as a Local business district. C2 is General business district. C3 is Highway Services District. That's where this belongs. Somewhere that's C-3. The location chosen is definitely a C-1 classification. It's a monumental stretch to try to get it into C-2 and then give them all of these little waivers to allow it to be a C-2 when it really belongs in a C-3 with no waivers. So, find a spot that's a C-3 and forget the C-2. Leave our neighborhoods. One other thing on the zoning. This is considered a limited service and carry out restaurant. It says so on the on the sign out front, it says present zoning, and it says request change to G-2 general proposed limited, carry out limited. The word Limited is key here, correct? In your section, 6.51, of the zoning ordinance, 3160, it says limited service and carry out restaurants with or without outdoor dining areas are subject to several conditions. Number C is drive up window facilities are not allowed. They're prohibited. There is a drive -up window there. Who's kidding who? Is it limited or isn't it limited? Either get rid of the word or abide by it and abide Mr. Wilshaw: David Sharp, Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Sharp: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Sharp: September 10, 2024 31571 by your own ordinances. My bottom line here, I would like to suggest that they move it somewhere else. There are many Iocations...Eight Mile and Haggerty. If they want to stay in Livonia, let's find them someplace else is more conducive. I don't know whether or not Seven Mile and Farmington is a good spot. There's a building that's been sitting there for God only whole knows...15 years empty, huge parking lot. Let them build there. Let them get their lights there. There's nobody that lives there. So, in conclusion, I thank you for your time. I thank you for consideration. I'm all for business. Don't misunderstand me, but that business does not belong on that corner. Let's find something that does. Thank you very much. Does anybody have any questions? I think we're good. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, sir. You're next. 21462, Beauford Lane, Northville, MI. As a Master Gardener, I work in Greenmead. I'm a major contributor to Greenmead, and we're very close to Greenmead, as you might know. I'm a retired teacher. I taught in Detroit for 34 years. I founded the Finlandia community gardens at the Finnish center. Many of the people who use our gardens are from Livonia, and many of our members are from Livonia. And as a matter of fact, my wife and I go to church in Livonia. We've even owned a piece of property in Livonia. So, my heart is close to Livonia. We appreciate that. What I haven't heard from anybody tonight is the experience that I have with this community area now you perhaps not personally, but certainly the City of Livonia has created a most beautiful area in the southwestern part of your city. You have, as I mentioned, green meat. You have the golf course. It's an Environmental Center because we have, as was mentioned, ponds and many animals that are frequently seen in this area. We even have turkeys. You have an opportunity this evening to make an important decision. Your decision is hopefully going to be in keeping with the decisions that have come before to create this beautiful area. Now I want to address the gentleman from the Sheetz. Please speak to us, sir. I want you to know that I thought that was an outstanding presentation and a beautiful place. What a lovely place to buy food. But it's not belonging there. This should be placed in an Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Wilshaw: Greg Ralko, September 10, 2024 31572 area where there's noise and all of these other things that have been mentioned here, not in that location. You have a beautiful area. I don't know how many of you have ever been there. Maybe you all have been maybe often, but it is an extraordinarily nice area, and we're just going to be very, very sad if it has to change. I hope that you will, in keeping with your previous decisions, not allow these people to put this here. They're fine people, but they're in the wrong place, and I would appreciate that if you would consider it very seriously. Well, thank you for your comments. Mr. Sharp, thank you. Good evening. 36116, Fairway Drive, Livonia, MI. We've been there about 10 years, and we like the area, but we don't like the traffic. That's a very big concern. We live close to Eight mile and traffic is, especially with the freeways, and they've been all diverting up and down Eight Mile because of the freeway work that's been done, 1-275, of course. You know the 1-696/I- 96 corridor as well. We it doesn't... we don't go a week without having at least one or two police officers parked right on our entrance to our subdivision, you know, and pulling people over left and right. And I know there's police officer here, so I'm ratting them out, but give you a sense of the speed with which people are going through that area, and just the volatility of that area. That corner, I think you have to remember, when you're going northbound on Newburgh, it's one lane going northbound. The right lane is a turn only lane, and during the I- 275 construction, we had so many people at that corner avoiding 1-275 that they were proceeding through that intersection in both lanes and then getting over and there was plenty of accidents. I called the police. I said you can have a field day pulling people over, and they did. They were out there almost every day. So, the traffic is a big concern. I used to be in the fast-food industry years ago, and the biggest question that 1 have is, how many cars or how many customers. I mean...they've done all their research and they've done their projections. How many customers do they expect through there on a daily basis, on a weekend, during rush hour, during breakfast hours? How many people do they have? Because you have to factor that in when you're looking at your traffic assessments, they'll underestimate it, but I'm sure they're projections, and they're great people. I you know, 1 love that industry, and 1 think they're a noble family -owned operation. However, that's a very interesting thing to know, and it's a good thing to know, because you don't want to underestimate and then when they open up that day, that they have double the volume that they're representing, or that your traffic patterns and your September 10, 2024 31573 thinking about traffic can sufficiently accommodate in that corner. That's a bad corner to begin with. Ralph mentioned the number of accidents, or the first individual that spoke tonight about the accidents, and there are plenty of accidents at that corner. It's kind of in the corner of the city, but it's accident prone. The other thing too is proximity to 1-275, I think there's unequivocally...their projections in their revenue model has to accommodate or has to count the number of people that are going to come off 1-275, to go there, because 1 don't think there's enough people in that area to support such a huge operation. Certainly, the fuel. But you've got fuel, as we said earlier, you have fuel. That's just at the Kroger on Eight mile, and then, of course, the brand-new Speedway, so there's enough fuel there. We don't need fuel, okay? And if that's part of their business model, then their banking on stealing customers from both of those corners. Then, I don't know if that's a good thing. Maybe they don't need fuel, or they do need to be closer to the proximity of the freeway. 1 don't know where the Romulus operation is, but 1 will almost bet that it's probably close to 1-94 and it's a bigger operation, as you said, but it's probably close to 1-94 which for that reason, the designation, 1 believe its a G-3 or C-3, close to proximity of a freeway is more conducive to what they're offering...meals at all times of day. Who wants those? Not the people that live there, not the families that live there, okay? And this is a family business, not the families living around there. They don't need food. 24/7. The people that need food, 24/7 that are passing through, passing through. And we don't want people passing through, okay? How do you protect your neighborhoods? Okay? You don't have people passing through, okay? And that's a big problem. And I hate to even venture the number of people, and the people where are they coming from? Where are your customers coming from? When you have proximity to neighborhoods, okay, I've requested...I've seen the cop outside our subdivision. I said, come here and park at three in the morning. Okay, that's when I want them there. And he says he doesn't work nights anymore. There was a mention of a couple other locations within the city. I'm not going to do their real estate for them. We know where they're at. We have the Jeffreys freeway coming through. There's probably places there, or this may just not be a good place for them, but it certainly is an encroachment on the people that live there, and the inconvenience of a convenience store is going to be placed on the residents that live near there. That's It's rich in irony, but that's exactly what's going to happen. I won't go west out of my sub. 1'11 go to Seven Mile. 1'11 go down Gill to Seven Mile. I'll avoid that corner. And there was a comment there about Rite Aid. I didn't shop at Rite Aid that often because of that reason, getting out of that that corner, and it's a blind left turn, if you're trying to go September 10, 2024 31574 south, coming out of that corner, it's a blind left turn going south on Newburgh, because you're allowing...people let you cut in right and then there's someone plowing through on the left turn lane. That's the reality. I've seen it, and I've avoided accidents, but I've seen accidents. We don't need that. We don't need that. Not to mention the construction. This is going to be a huge inconvenience for everybody. For Greenmead, for everybody. How long is this thing going to take? How long is it going to take to build? He's got major geography, topography work to do. How long is this going to take? What's the traffic flow going to be for us living there during that period of time? It's not a good location. It's, you remember, over in front of Eight Mile and Haggerty, where they put that pod out in front of the bank, right on that one strip near the corner. And that lot always used to crack, and it was the soil underneath there, it wasn't conducive, or what they did, they didn't do it correctly. And forever that whole lot was...you had waves of cement, and it was unsafe, and it was just...they had to redo it so many times, if you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole, and I think that's what they're trying to do here. That's just not a good place for it. Ideally, on a flat surface, you don't create a flat surface where there's not one and everything around it is exposed to the to the ramifications that could be created. I think we need to be aware of that. I think we really need to be aware of that. So, I'm adamantly opposed to it. Not opposed to Sheetz, you know, and family businesses and things like that. I applaud them, and it's always nice to have them come in, into our community, but this isn't the right place for it. And the last thing I'll add is, before I moved to where I am now. 1 used to live in Laurel Park II, and I was the president of the homeowner's association, and years ago, it probably predates most of you that sit on this committee, Schostak wanted to put in a development on that corner. And it was they wanted to put in a drive through, a Del Taco drive through. And I've got a lot of the people in our subdivision that were pretty upset about it because of the hours of operation and the lights and the noise and everything, and they didn't want it. And it was interesting, the committee said one thing. They said that area we don't have a drive thru. It's a nice area. We try to maintain the image, or whatever, of the particular plot of land in that area. This is no different. It's just two miles north and so I think that was pretty revealing when they said no to it, and then you got Qdoba, and then you got, you know, now the Walgreens there. And so that was a nice development. It was something that the people vocally wanted the Walgreens there, because that was the convenience that they liked, and it was for the people around that area. This isn't for us, okay, this isn't for us. It's for the people that are going to come off 1-275, that are going to go up and down Eight Mile, and they're going to cause September 10, 2024 31575 numerous accidents, but they're going to cause the inconvenience of this convenience store, and so I would be grateful that you say no to this, and I think it's in our best interest, and I appreciate you listening to me ramble on. Mr. Wilshaw: We got it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Ralco. Good evening, ma'am. Karen Hall, 37300 West Eight Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI. My main concern is, I know we talked about the traffic and when they are doing construction, this whole time they were doing construction on Newburgh Road, I literally had people coming around my circle driveway all day long, in the evening, during the night. Of course, when they're coming up, the lights are shining into my bedroom. They're loud. I just think it's going to impact me the most with this being right across. I try to get out in the morning to go to work at nine o'clock in the morning and come home at five, at nine o'clock in the morning, I wait through three lights to get out to Eight Mile, to take a left to go down to Farmington Road. I have to make sure that there's no cars coming, because I don't...one time, one of my sons got hit, got T-boned coming into my driveway. And I just, it's the traffic's horrible there. And I just want to make you aware that it's horrible and there. Other part I'm concerned about is the crime that when these people are open that late at night, how many people are gonna be coming up to my door? When Rite Aid was there, they came up to my door. When the house that used to be built there, they would come to my door to use my phone. It's for me, it's security, and that's gonna be all gone if this goes in there, because they somehow, they come up to my door. And I don't think anybody else wants people coming up to their wife's door at night, and that's a scary thing. So, I don't that's I really oppose this because of the traffic, the crime. If I go down to Eight Mile and Farmington to the Speedway, I'm walking out and there's people that are on drugs asking me for money, because they say they want to fill up their car instead of they take the money and they leave. Are they going to be coming up to my house asking me for money? That's what I really worry about that. So, I just want to make sure you know how bad the traffic is and the crime. Mr. Wilshaw: Linda Allen, We appreciate your comments. Thank you for bringing those to us. Thank you. Thank you. Be careful. Hi, good evening. Ma'am. 37203 Whitetail Court, Farmington Hills, MI. So, I'm about a good block distance down from Eight Mile and Newburgh, Eight Mile and Halstead, whatever you want to call it. I'm a strong supporter of Livonia. My husband and I lived in Livonia just about 30 years, raised our children, and our daughters went to Stevenson High September 10, 2024 31576 School, so I know Livonia through and through. However, in conjunction with the previous speakers, I can't agree more with them on everything they said. I really don't want to regurgitate the same thing, but all of the items mentioned are so applicable. We've been in our brand-new built house for four and a half years, and I never imagined the traffic. Problem number one is the traffic problem at that intersection of Eight mile and Newburgh or Eight Mile and Halsted, however you want to name it, and like the resident's prior that have spoken, this is a major, major concern. There's always police present, there's always an accident. There are also people always rerouted, and you're taking five lanes off a Newburgh one, of course, is a right turn lane only on to Eight Mile, but you're basically taking five lanes that includes a center lane, and you are going to two lanes. So already it's a major backup problem, like everyone else has mentioned. So, my that's one point to reiterate. Second point is I did a little bit of homework because there was a proposal by this organization for Five Mile and Newburgh. Read up about it. I don't know why it was denied and turned down, but it was denied for that location. I have very close friends that live in the Five Mile and Newburgh area, off of Hicks or by the Italian American banquet center all along there. And what they determined was, once again, we already have multiple gas stations. We don't need something like this. Well, just going five miles or three miles north isn't going to change the opinion of residents in the local area, whether they're from Northville, whether they're from Farmington Hills, or whether they're from Livonia, we all feel the same way. Now, I don't have any children at home anymore because they've grown up, but I know in my 17 home, small new subdivision, there are many brand-new families with a lot of small children. I don't think it's safe to have this locate, this location. I respect what they want to do, but as the previous people have said, it's just not the new home for Sheetz. They need to find another location, more along the lines of the C-3 zoning. The other thing is that... has anybody considered okay... Right on the corner of Eight Mile and Halstead is a daycare center all those little children, okay? Now I'm not saying accidents are going to happen. There is a fence and all that, but we all know the unexpected does happen. There are children out several times a day on recess playing with all the little Gymboree articles outside. I know if I was a parent dropping off my child, I definitely wouldn't want to see that across the street. So, I'm sure that Child Time and that business are not too thrilled either. I don't know if they've entertained any input to you guys, but I would think that's not a plus for them. We moved from our home in Livonia, which was just two and a half miles away, we were off of Seven Mile by Fox Creek Golf Course to Farmington Hills. And the reason why we stayed there is because we love the September 10, 2024 31577 area. We love what it's about. We love the...my husband golfs constantly at Whispering Willows. You know, it's just a nice, calm, non -noisy area. We all want it to stay that way. We don't want all this. And I determine if you can get this at 3pm and this at 3am like the other people said, we don't need a 24/7 truck stop service at Eight Mile and Newburgh. I'm sorry. It makes absolutely no sense at all, and I think it's actually going to really bring down the Livonia community and the communities that butt up against Livonia. I just don't think it's going to be a nice look, even though the, like everyone said, the building is gorgeous. I mean, ifs absolutely stunning, but not the right location. So, I am very much opposed to this. I didn't move to that location in Farmington Hills, with all this, these beautiful subdivisions and these monumental homes across the street with the rod iron gates and everything in the beauty to have that thing bring down the entire surrounding area. I want to commend the gentleman that really methodically went through everything. I think his name was Ralph. Yeah, anyway, so he did an outstanding job, and he did it very well, and everything he said was exactly correct. And the neighbors are very, very concerned, because we've all talked in the last week amongst ourselves. So, thank you very much for hearing me, and I hope you deeply consider what all of these residents are saying. Mr. Wilshaw: We appreciate your comments coming to our meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, sir. Jerry Allen, 37203 Whitetail Court, Farmington Hills, MI. I live behind Child Time. I really appreciate what the other speakers in opposition to this have had to say and I fully agree with them. I won't reiterate all of that, but I will point out a few things. I ride my bike practically every day through that Rite Aid parking lot and I can tell you that trying to cross the crosswalk there, even walking my bike across, is taking my life in my own hands. It's dangerous. The other thing to consider that my wife brought up was about Child Time. Our daughters went there years ago. But when the gentleman from Sheetz is talking about doing a traffic study, the traffic flows there vary depending on the seasonality. I know some of you were saying that you golf at Whispering Willows like I do. In the wintertime it isn't too bad, you're not golfing in the snow. Now it's bad, okay? And you've got traffic going in and out of there. You've got that right lane where people decide that they're going to go into Whispering Willows, hitting northbound, then others are going to Eight Mile. You've also got the situation where you've got different events going on at Greenmead at different times of the year. They had a Scottish festival there a couple of weeks ago. You've got in and out traffic going there, primarily during the spring, summer and fall, maybe even in the winter, sometimes. Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31578 The other issue with Child Time is that the fact that when you're going northbound, those four lanes with the middle turn lane, which is kind of like four and a half five lanes, those whittle down to a two-lane road, because Newburgh becomes Halstead. Well in the mornings and the afternoons, and sometimes even around lunchtime, if you've got kindergarteners, people are stopping to pull in, heading northbound, and so you've got this situation where the traffic backs up due to that. You've got kids, keep in mind, Child Time has got their own busses, so you got those busses going on. The other thing is, God forbid, going back to what Ralph was saying earlier, if they were to have some sort of a leak or, God forbid, an explosion, I don't think any of you want to be having to explain why numerous injuries and possibly deaths of young children due to something like that, and with a 19,000 gallon tanker that's coming down Eight Mile road off of the hill from the top of Greenmead, just imagine if somebody goes into the rear end of that thing. As other people have said, we have a speeding issue on Eight Mile Road, even on Halstead Road, because it's such a long stretch a straight road, I just think that that's a risk that's not worth taking. I've been in Sheetz before. I used to work out in the Pittsburgh area. I like their stores; I like their food. I like the convenience. But to reiterate with other people who said here, this is, this is the right company for Livonia, but the wrong location. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments. Mr. Allen, I think there's one more Gallico. Go forward. Anyone else wishing to speak. Please be ready. Good evening. Kathy McRae. 21126 Center Farm, Northville, MI. I would like to say that, yeah, a bunch of us are from Farmington, but we probably shop in Livonia, more, a lot of us, than Farmington, just because I go down to Six and Newburgh all the time. So, I mean, we support your city anyway. Again, I agree with everything everybody said so succinctly and eloquently. And I would just like to add two things. You know, early on, one of the earlier speakers, either the Sheetz or one of these two gentlemen said, you know, , we'll limit traffic turning out of the station onto the main roads. We'll put a no left turn sign there. And that's a joke. I mean, there's one down at the Speedway at Seven and Newburgh, and people turn left out onto Newburgh all the time out of there. Who's going to police that? I mean, it's literally an accident waiting to happen. I mean, no one pays attention to red lights anymore, let alone a no left turn sign and then the other thing is, another factor that hasn't been mentioned yet, is litter. I mean, those places are going to have a lot of litter floating around the parking lot, and it's all going to blow down into the ponds on the golf course. You know, people Mr. Wilshaw: Rocky Fowler, September 10, 2024 31579 can't even put their trash in a trash can. They just have to open the door and plop it down on the pavement. So, it's going to get pretty gross, pretty fast. I know you can tell me, oh, we'll have someone go clean up the, you know, the area, but I just don't see it happening. And just in general, it's, it's a jarring proposition. That's the only word I can think of, is jarring. You're going from this one story, kind of laid-back drugstore to this building with red and ifs got a canopy, and it's just going to be too much for the again, too much for that site. It's going to be, the only way I can think of, is jarring. So that's it for me. But thank you for listening to me. Appreciate your comments. We appreciate that. I There is another gentleman coming forward. Good evening, sir. 37250 West Eight M, Farmington Hills, MI. I am pretty much right across the street from the proposed location, really. I share the sentiments of all the previous speakers as well. So, to spare you of any of that redundancy, but I would like that those are very important statements and comments. I'm a real estate agent with Keller Williams. My office is at Haggerty between Eight and Nine. I do feel that's something that, I don't know, if that was brought up or not. You know, it's nothing against Sheetz. I think that it looks like a beautiful place. It's just the wrong location. And I think for a lot of reasons, I don't think the proper traffic situation was assessed thoroughly enough the previous people, again, not to be redundant, but they've made up some, you know, or made some very important points on that. The accidents that I see it... firsthand, you know, I'm on almost an acre right there, and I thought that it would be the great location. The only thing, you know, the noise with Eight Mile, I know that we'll have to...that's already there, but this is going to add to that, like so many of the other residents have invested in landscape and different things to adjust to that, but this is something that I don't think we have the capacity for. I will say no one can, you know, predict the future and to certainty say that it's going to bring down our property value. I think the homeowners would concur, though, that would factor in. I think too, I would just implore you all to consider what our parents and grandparents said over the years. Nothing good happens after midnight. And I'm not I'm not saying this, you know, lightly either, you know, I have kids, plan on having grandkids. Have been there for 20 years. And I don't think anything good happens after midnight either. When it comes to, I don't know if there's proposed liquor sale there. I assume there would be, but, you know, 24 hours. And so, you know, as a gentleman from Sheetz mentioned in the very beginning, he prefaced with, you know, the contributions to the, you know, kids and Special September 10, 2024 31580 Olympics, I believe, or the, you know, that's admirable, but on a very immediate level, that's my main concern, is the kids. And I would implore you to consider that when you make your choice. That's really the main, again, all my sentiments have been mentioned. That's really the big thing though. You know your traffic, but not just the traffic, but the fact that it's 24 hours, it's the wrong place. It really is. I don't think it's good for the city. It's good for any of the residents around either. So, I appreciate you coming out and speaking. Thank you so much for your consideration. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for your comments. We have a couple people left. Please come forward. Good evening, ma'am, Julianne Levine, 37284, Rosedale, Farmington Hills, MI. Clearly, so many important points have been made this evening. Clearly, they have a business model that's excellent, and it goes to whether this is really the right location for that. It's a very pastoral feel to that intersection. And I think we all understand, we don't want to lose that feel with you know the investment Greenmead Livonia, the City of Livonia has put into green meat, what they've put into Whispering Willow the Farmington Hills on the north side, the neighborhoods that have been developed. There are beautiful neighborhoods. I would just add a couple additional points. I don't know if you've talked to the City of Northville, but I moved into that area. I lived at nine in Halstead for 10 years prior before moving there. And I moved there in 2011 Halsted hollow neighborhood, and the lot where Linda and Jerry have moved into, and the development there, the residential neighborhood there, when that 10 acre lot went up for sale, an assisted living facility wanted to come in and redevelop it, and it what went to rezoning before Farmington Hills City Council and all the surrounding neighborhoods, because we were all notified. See, we were not notified. This is needs to be understood. Your requirements of notification to the neighborhoods was very limited, given the distance, sure, and there's a lot of neighborhood, we were all notified when the rezoning was going to occur, and all the surrounding neighborhoods, Goldstream, Applebrook, Meadowbrook Hills, Halstead Hollow, all came before the City of Farmington Hills Council and explain how we wanted to keep this area a residential area, and the importance to that and the community that we had built there and invested in. So, I just want to give you that background information, and it needs to be considered because a lot of people in that area haven't been notified. We only found out in the last week or so, and we have been networking with our neighborhood associations to make people aware of that. So there would probably be more people Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Levine: September 10, 2024 31581 here this evening than what you have if those neighborhoods in the Farmington hillside had received the notification. Well, 1 appreciate you coming and making your comments. I also want to add that I think it's been brought out a 24-hour site since. I've lived in that corner in that intersection, and I shop at the Haggerty and Eight Mile area. You know, there's the large Meijer store. It is well known and documented that having the 24 hour, which they've cut back since COVID, but having that 24 hour clearly became a crime scene for the City of Northville. So, I would ask you to also speak to them about the issues of having a 24-hour location open in that area and people have spoken to their concerns about crime. Mr. Wilshaw: I appreciate that. Thank you. Good evening, sir. John Eliav, owner of Rite -Aid on the proposed site. I've noticed more than a few people have referred to it as a truck stop, and the Sheetz at Metro airport is a gas station and a truck stop. There is truck fueling facility in the back and regular motor vehicles in the front. This location will not have a truck stop. There will be no fueling for trucks. It will be strictly for people who live there. And I had some people mentioned the Rite -Aid failed because of getting in and out. The Rite -Air was there for 25 years, and they had trouble with their opioid lawsuits over a billion dollars nationwide, and they closed all their stores in Michigan, not just this one corner and the Sheetz proposal, if you look at the drawing, they're using the two far driveways from the corner. They're eliminating the driveway closest to the corner, so they wrap the corner, making it a lot safer for traffic coming in and out of the site. Also, one neighbor mentioned he's going to have lights coming at night. I have 40 lights tall, gigantic lights on that property, and I keep them on all night long. Now that Rite -Aid closed, they're off. But for all the years I had the property, those lights are on all night for safety, and they're not proposing any more lights at that site than we have, and probably less. It's a good location but the building is old. It's over 30 years old. It needs something new, and I was impressed with Sheetz when I was out of town and I drove to the new one just the other day with the open and I loved it was beautiful, and they were busy, but they were not nothing like a Chick fil A, where cars line up and Cost traffic their drive through does? I didn't see one car while I was there. Most people got their gas, grabbed a bite to eat, either pre made food, which I did, and left, or they got something made to order. And I liked the fact I went in the restrooms were clean and they were huge. They're not like a typical gas station. And if you're coming out of Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Siwicki: September 10, 2024 31582 Greenmead during the event, I support Greenmead also, and you want to stop in and use the restroom, they're clean and they're large, and they take care of them. You don't let them run down. The gas station by my house is you're afraid to walk into the bathroom. It's awful as far as food goes. My great aunt lives a mile away. My mom just a little further. My mom there's 90 this year. We have 24-hour care for both of them in their home, and one of my caregivers is a vegetarian. I like the fact that I get a salad at three in the morning or two in the morning and bring it over to her while she's taking care of my mom. Not everybody lives a nine to five life. People have different jobs. People have different requirements. I don't see it as a high crime risk. They have cameras, they have security. They're virtually cashless now. They're a well -run company, and I think getting rid of that old building would do the site justice and put a nice new, modern building there, and I don't think it would impact the area. And if they're concerned about traffic, they should contact MDOT and see about getting the Tight signals changed where you have arrows for turning and give people more time to turn to reduce the traffic backup. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Well, thank you for your comments. Appreciate you coming down. I think that covers all the comments from our audience. We did get extensive comments from our audience, and I do appreciate everyone coming forward and speaking. We do give the petitioner the last word to speak if there's anything that you'd like to say based on anything that you've heard, again, we don't want to create a debate back and forth, but we just want to see if there's anything you want to address. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you everyone in the community for coming out. That actually means quite a bit to Sheetz. So, Sheetz, if you've noticed, I've been writing this whole time. We take those comments and we I guess I'm kind of speaking through the chair here to the audience, and we look at our site plan and see if there's things that we can do to help mitigate our neighbor's concerns. So, most of you now have my contact information. If you didn't get it, please find me here before the conclusion of the meeting, and I'd love to speak with you. But some of the things that we can go over here, and we'll just touch on them very lightly, because this is a rezoning request, and we'll talk more specifically during site plan review. So, we do have a traffic study on file with you all, and it involves certain recommendations. We believe that the intersection will actually function better after the modifications to the timing signal, as the traffic study suggests. Lighting, we meet the city's ordinance. All of our lighting cannot surpass the property boundaries, so all of our lights are down, lighting Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31583 appropriately shielded, and we meet the foot candle requirements. So, our stations are typically very mellow when it comes to their lighting, compared to maybe our counterparts that are on the on the freeway. Bringing me to the freeway item, this is not a truck stop. So, there are some notable differences between a regular C-store that we're proposing here and a truck stop. Truck stops are much larger in acreage. They can accommodate tractor trailers being able to turn appropriately through the site. Have places to park that sort of thing. They're simply not the room here. If a tractor trailer came on our site, or forbid, more than one, it would clog up our entire operation, and we would have to ask them to leave. They also wouldn't want to come on our site. So, the diesel that we offer at this particular location for smaller trucks and stuff like that, the pumps only pump about six gallons per minute. At a truck stop, it's about 30 gallons per minute. So, at a truck stop, a tractor trailer can fill up in about five minutes. On this proposed location, it would take them a half hour. They simply just do not want to come to this type of location. Pardon me, while I go through my notes here, construction sequencing was brought up by a few members of the community, it depends on the time of year how long construction will take. We are very quick at construction. I actually started at Sheetz in our construction department, and on average, it takes us about five months to build one of these things. It's remarkably fast for the scale of the operation. Alcohol. Alcohol is not permitted for our use within the City of Livonia, so we will not be serving alcohol here. And I think those are some of the main points. Again, I've given my contact info to all the neighbors, and I would love to speak with them and see what we can do to make sure that this is a site that fits in within the character their community. Any questions for me? Thank you, Mr. Siwicki. I appreciate you just addressing some of those larger bullet points that we heard repeatedly from some of the people who spoke. You seem to encapsulate that really well and at least address some of those. Let's see if there's any questions from any of our commissioners for you. Are there any questions for the petitioner based on anything that we've heard so far before we close the public hearing? Mr. Ventura: Can you tell us whether or not you'd be willing to limit your hours of operation to something less than 24 hours? Mr. Siwicki: So, all Sheetz locations operate 24/7 365, we have for many, many decades. It's something that's kind of ingrained in our culture. We offer the ultimate convenience for our consumer, and it is for those types of folks that maybe don't live the 9-5 lifestyle, September 10, 2024 31584 as the previous speaker said. So at this time, we would really like to have 24/7 in Livonia. Mr. Ventura: So I take that as a no. Mr. Siwicki: That is accurate, sir. Mr. Ventura: Great. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for our petitioner? If not, I will close the public hearing. And thank you, Mr. Siwicki, for your presentation, and a motion would be in order. On a motion by Droze, seconded by Dinaro, it was: RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2024-08-01-04 submitted by Skilken Gold under Section 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting to rezone the property at 37355 Eight Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Eight Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Northwest /4 of Section 5, from C-1 (Local Business District) to C-2 (General Business District), be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. A zoning change to C-2 would be compatible and in harmony with the area's surrounding land uses and zoning. 2. The proposed C-2 zoning is consistent with the longstanding commercial use of the property. 3. The proposed C-2 zoning will allow the development of the subject property in a manner that is consistent with its size and location and will bring additional commercial services and retail to this part of the city. 4. The proposed zoning change represents a reasonable and logical plan for the subject property that adheres to sound land use planning principles. Approving motion made by Droze. The motion failed due to lack of majority. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Droze, Dinaro, Caramagno NAYS: Long, Ventura, Wilshaw September 10, 2024 31585 ABSENT: Bongero ABSTAIN: None Mr. Wilshaw: Would someone like to offer an alternative resolution? On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Long, it was: RESOLVED, That the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2024-08-01-04 submitted by Skilken Gold under Section 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting to rezone the property at 37355 Eight Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Eight Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Northwest % of Section 5, from C-1 (Local Business District) to C-2 (General Business District), be denied for the following reasons: 1. The proposed zoning contradicts the Future Land Use Map, which designates the site as Parks and Community. 2. That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with adjacent zoning districts in the area. 3. That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with the established pattern of the development and would adversely alter the character of the area. 4. That the proposed change of zoning is not needed to develop the property. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. Denying motion made by Ventura. The motion failed due to lack of majority. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Droze: AYES: NAYS: ABSENT: ABSTAIN: Long, Ventura, Wilshaw Droze, Dinaro, Caramagno Bongero None Is there any discussion? The only point would be that I think point one of that resolution. Prior discussion earlier is that the future land use map may have September 10, 2024 31586 been done in error, that it was to remain a commercial land use so that's my only point to make on that. Mr. Wilshaw: That's a fair point. Thank you. Any other discussion on the motion? Mr. Ventura: I respond to Mr. Droze and point out that planning has acknowledged that they would leave it C-1, that does not mean that planning would have mandated a change to C-2. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Any other comments on this motion? Mr. Wilshaw: Motion of the vote is split. Gee wish Mr. Bongero was here tonight. All right, we have a stalemate. Is anybody willing to make a motion to table this to a future date. Mr. Long: Mr. Chair? Is it possible that we could just send this along to city council without a recommendation either way. Mr. Wilshaw: This is a rezoning request. Mr. Miller. Mr. Miller: I've never heard of that. Mr. Wilshaw: I believe we have to have some sort of definitive ruling for the City Council to consider. Mr. Miller: You have to recommend. Mr. Wilshaw: So, we may need to wait till Mr. Bongero gets back and vote then. Anybody would be willing to make a tabling resolution? That would be the only other alternative. Ms. Dinaro: I'll make the resolution to table this until our next meeting in October. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Long: Mr. Wilshaw: Is that correct? So, our first meeting in October. That'll be our next regular scheduled meeting. Mr. Long, you had a comment you wanted to make? I would like to hear from the people with Sheetz about their timetable and the act of tabling this, since we don't have a scheduled meeting for another month. Ms. Dinaro, typically, there's no discussion on tabling motions. We haven't had support for that yet. Are you willing to... Ms. Dinaro: I'm willing to pull it. September 10, 2024 31587 Ow To hold that for just a moment. Thank you, Mr. Siwicki, if this was to be delayed for upwards of a month, how does that factor into your plans? Mr. Siwicki: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Siwicki: Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Dinaro: On a motion by #09-45-2024 Mr. Wilshaw: You know, it's not ideal for us. It is something that we can work with. If we may take a moment, I would like to address any concerns that any of the commissioners might have, more succinctly. Is that an opportunity to answer any more questions you all might have? I think we've cut we've had as many opportunities as we can. I do appreciate you offering that, though. We're at the point where we need to make our decision, I think. Great. I understand. Thank you for offering that. Ms. Dinaro, are you willing to put that motion back on the table? Yep, motion to table. Dinaro, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was RESOLVED, That pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on September 10, 2024, on Petition 2024-08-01-04 submitted by Skilken Gold under Section 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, requesting to rezone the property at 37355 Eight Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Eight Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Northwest % of Section 5, from C-1 (Local Business District) to C-2 (General Business District), the Planning Commission does hereby table this item to the Public Hearing on October 8, 2024. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 and 13.15 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. This item has been tabled to our next regular meeting where we will consider it again. There will be limited discussion at that meeting. Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. (Member of the Mr. Wilshaw: (Same member) Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31588 audience) Are we going to be able to talk to Mr. Bongero? Is he going to be able to hear our concerns. He will have the full record everything that was said today is fully recorded, word for word in our minutes, and he'll have an opportunity to review those. I get that, but I want him to hear the passion in our voice. This is also videotaped too and broadcast, so he can also watch it as well. But yeah, at our next meeting, it will be a pending item, because it's one that we've already had a public hearing on, so there will not be open discussion, so we're not going to have a full comment period again, but Mr. Bongero will hopefully be there, and we'll be able to make a decision. Thank you. Thank you all for coming this evening. (Another member of audience): So, how do we know what the result of Mr. Bongero's input is? If we're all not allowed to come to the... Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Long: Mr. Wilshaw: Ma'am, you're, you are welcome to come to the meeting. These are all open meetings, and that date will be, October 8. October 8. So that's the date, 7pm downstairs. You may want to discuss the whole process, whether, whatever happens with us... That's fair, Mr. Long, I do appreciate you mentioning that, just so anyone who's not familiar with how these petitions go through the city process is kind of a four step, sort of four meeting process, in the sense that the petitioner comes to us with a rezoning request. That's what we're dealing with today, to rezone this property from C-1 to C-2, regardless of what goes on the property. We make a decision on that. This is a recommending decision that then goes on to City Council. The City Council, after holding their own meeting and their own public hearing, will make the final vote on whether the property is rezoned or not. And what they do is they will...they have to do a first reading, second reading. It's a multi- step process, even for them. They will hold the first reading. If they get this. Let's assume that we recommend approval. It will go to City Council. City Council will consider it if they want to go forward on it as well, they'll hold it into a first reading. Then the petitioner will come back to us and start the process of a site plan. This is the part where we go through looking at the building and the layout and the wall and the entrances and all the little nitty, picky details of the property. That comes to us again. We review it. We work with the petitioner to try to get what we feel is the best September 10, 2024 31589 petition possible. We will either approve or deny that particular site plan, and then again, that will go to City Council with that recommendation. City Council will then vote on the zoning and on the site plan at some point in the future. So, it's a multi -step process. We are just making recommendations to City Council, so regardless of if we approve or deny this, the petitioner will have an opportunity to appeal or to make that presentation again to the City Council, and the City Council will ultimately be making the final decision. So just so you understand, it's a long process. It's a multi -step process, and City Council is really the one that's going to make the final decisions on this, not us. We're just doing the homework and trying to get the best plan we can for the city. Go ahead with this one question, because you're in the audience, and people can't and Tv can't hear you. (Another member of audience): So, with what you just went through, how, typically, how long does all that take? Mr. Wilshaw: It's a couple month process at least, and it depends on scheduling, when meetings occur, and all that type of thing, which is, unfortunately why you're going to have a bit of a delay now, because we don't have a meeting between now and the beginning of October, so that adds a little bit of a delay. So, ifs unfortunate, but that's what it is. So, with that, we are done for the public hearing on this item. We are now going to move on to item number two in our agenda. Thank you for those who did come tonight. ITEM #2 PETITION 2024-08-02-13 A & B Fuel Mart (Food Truck) Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2024- 08-02-13 submitted by A & B Fuel Mart requesting waiver use approval under Section 6.51 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate a food truck at the Shell gas station, 33411 Six Mile Road, located at the southwest corner of Six Mile and Farmington Roads in the Northeast'/4 of Section 16. Mr. Miller: The site measures 160 feet along Farmington Road by 135 feet along Six Mile Road. The existing one-story building is approximately 1,500 square feet in size and is positioned at an approximately 45-degree angle to the intersection. There are two groups of gas pumps, one fronting along Six Mile, the other on Farmington. Ingress and egress is provided by four driveways: two on Farmington and two on Six Mile. The site is zoned C-2. Under Section 6.51 of the Zoning Ordinance, food trucks are treated as a waiver use under the same sub -category as a drive- in restaurant. One requirement is that no drive-in restaurant, in Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Miller: September 10, 2024 31590 this case, the food truck, shall not be located nearer than 200 feet, as measured property to property, to a religious institution. There are no religious institutions within 200 feet of the property. The proposed food truck would be parked next to the north end of the existing building. There would be no seating area and only carry -out service would be provided. Parking is based on the size of the station. They're required to have eight parking spaces. The site plan shows eight parking spaces. There are also 12 more parking spaces available next to the pumps. That is the extent of this proposal. .With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out the departmental correspondence. Yes, please. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated August 12, 2024, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. We have no objections to the proposed waiver use at this time. The subject parcel is assigned the address of #33411 Six Mile Road. The legal description submitted with the petition appears to be correct and should be used should the waiver use be granted. The existing parcel is currently served by public water main and sanitary sewer, as well as private storm sewer. The submittal does not indicate any changes to the existing utility leads, so we do not believe there will be any additional impacts to the public utilities with this proposal. Should changes to the existing building leads be needed, the owner shall submit proposed drawings to this Department to determine if permits will be required. Also, should any work be required within the Six Mile Road or Farmington Road rights -of -way, The owner may be required to obtains permits from the Wayne County Department of Public Service." The letter is signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The next letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated September 10, 2024, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate a food truck on the property located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with the following stipulations: 1. Contact with the City Building Dept to inquire and/or obtain the appropriate permit(s). 2. Guidelines and codes will be provided and followed, to the food truck operator and gas station business, by the fire department Prevention Division prior to set-up. 3. On -site inspection by the fire department and building department inspection will inspect the food truck and set up site on the day of setup and prior to "opening for business" to ensure code compliance. Sales will not commence until violations, if any, are corrected. 4. Separation distances from permanent structures September 10, 2024 31591 and gas pumps will be enforced. 5. To the food truck vendor and gas station owner(s): Read, understand, and follow the guidelines and codes to ensure compliance prior to inspection and help with streamlining this process with minimal to no violations. A further detailed plan review will take place when this division receives an official plan set. "The letter is signed by Brian Kukla, Fire Marshal. The next letter is from the Division of Police, dated August 19, 2024, which reads as follows: `1 have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Paul Walters, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The next letter is from the Inspection Department, dated September 9, 2024, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced Petition has been reviewed. 1. The proposed food truck/trailer shall be located at least 10 feet from the existing structure or provide a rated firewall for separation. 2. Permits and inspections shall be obtained if this project moves forward. This Department has no further objections to this Petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Director of Inspection. The next letter is from the Finance Department, dated August 22, 2024, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal."The letter is signed by Connie Kumpula, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated August 14, 2024, which reads as follows: "All taxes and water payments are current with this property."The letter is signed by Susie Nash, Treasurer. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions for Mr. Miller? Ms. Dinaro: Do we have food trucks anywhere else in the city? Mr. Miller: No, this is the first one going through the process. Mr. Droze: Mr. Miller, you mentioned, I believe it was the building official, Jorome Hanna, recommended a 10-foot separation between the building and the truck. Mr. Miller: Yes. Mr. Droze: Was that a condition if it had a fire rated wall, or was that... Mr. Miller: It just says the proposed food truck shall be located at least 10 feet from the existing structure or provide a rated firewall for separation. Mr. Droze: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Miller: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Miller: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31592 Okay? Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Droze. Any other questions for our staff? Mr. Miller, I read the ordinance that you made reference to that talks about food trucks, specifically gives a definition of a food truck as a large, wheeled vehicle. And if you go on and read throughout the ordinance, the ordinance makes a clear distinction between a vehicle and a trailer. This is not a vehicle. This is a trailer. So how does this come before us? Since it doesn't comply at all with the ordinance, Basically, he's asking for a generic food truck. The type of truck could be switch out periodically. You could recommend that it has to be a food truck instead of a type of trailer, but this would have to be restricted. He's just asking permission to park a food truck on the site. All right, so the illustration of the trailer really doesn't mean anything. No, I think he just submitted that as an example. I guess it kind of looks like a trailer, but it qualifies as a food truck. Thank you. All right, thank you. Mr. Ventura, any other questions for our staff? If not, Mr. Hamouch, you're up. Ali Hamouch, 33411 Six Mile Road, Livonia, MI Shell gas station. So, this is, I think, my second time here. After the first time that I actually changed the gas station upside down. Give it a facial lift, making sure that it actually meets the neighbor expectation, and also Livonia's expectation, as well the City Council and also the commissioners here. Appreciate everything, all the support you guys gave us in making that happen. Now for the food truck, whether it's a truck or a trailer, we are open and whether if you want to make it as a trailer. But just at the end of the day, we listen to our customers, our neighbors. We have a great neighborhood beside us, and they'd love to see some authentic food, like Middle Eastern Sharma available in the neighborhood, which is not available within our neighborhood there. So, that's what came up from. And they just want to try something that interesting, right? I mean, if you go in the metro Detroit area now, you guys drive around, and you see a lot of food trucks out there. Now in the different cities, everybody is approving it, everybody is seeing it. And we got a lot of our neighbors, they would love to see something like this in the Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Ventura: Mr. Hamouch: September 10, 2024 31593 type of the Middle Eastern shawarma, the popular name of shawarma. So, I moved forward. I told him, okay, I'm gonna move forward. I'm gonna take the first step with the City of Livonia and see what's gonna happen. So as a matter of fact, I did. I look at the site, I saw where we can store that and make sure we comply with all the ordinance and health department. As a matter of fact, I'm a current franchisee of a Tropical Smoothie, so there's no way I can run this down, because the reputation is, my name is there, my gas station is there. I'm a Tropical Smoothie franchise, franchisee in Ann Arbor, and so I know all the standards of food. How can I make the customer happy? I will technically serve that. I will have, I will need to have actual authority over that to make sure it's it meets the standard. It's not run down, and they offer the food. So that's where we came from, about that, about the idea of having food truck in that area, that corner. Okay, thank you. Appreciate your presentation. Do we have some questions for our petitioner? So, will you have different foods there over time? In other words, my business is an office building in Southfield, and we have a steady parade of different food trucks that come in there. They're not trailers. They're actual trucks. And different kinds of food. So one week it will be shawarma, next week is pizza, next week's fried chicken and so forth. There's an assortment, and different kinds of foods. Will that be what you're doing here? No, there will be one consistent. I mean, basically, we collected a lot of, I mean, I wish I would have actually brought the folder up. I listened to my neighbors what they want. A lot of them were asking for something to the Middle East a shawarma thing. So, we will focus on that food only. And given the background of where I came from, I'm sure I can make it good. I guess one thought, one follow up question, you acknowledge that you were here before us, before and we, and we gave you an approval to expand your state, your gas station, to put a food service in there. Can you tell us what happened to that plan? Now, when we asked for that expansion, wasn't the food service actually, was only to get more storage. And due to the fact that was started in 2019, we went through the covid era at that time. After that, the inflation happened, and things went skyrocket with everything, with construction, the material, the cost. So, we actually kind of narrow it down. Say, okay, what we have now is enough to serve the community. For the financial reasons let's focus more on bringing the station up to the standard, I mean, to Mr. Ventura: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: September 10, 2024 31594 what we want to bring it up in the corner. And we just decided to just do a facelift instead of expanding. Thank you. Nice job with your facelift. Thank you so much. Thank you. Mr. Ventura. Any other questions for our petitioner? Thank you, Mr. Chair. For this particular food truck...just we haven't had many in the city, so I had to do a little searching around. Would you classify this as a special transitory food unit or a mobile food service setup? So, repeat the last two words. Maybe I'll try to define that based on my understanding of it. But there is a special transitory food unit or a mobile food service setup, and I think the difference is that one of them is more of a, basically, it goes, I'm gonna say go home, goes home every night, so it goes back to the commissary for servicing. Or do you plan for this to be more of a, like, I'll call it a semi -permanent type. No, it's gonna be actually permanent. Okay, yeah, all right. So, I guess with that, how will this set up? Basically, I'm asking questions about power, noise, how will be basically maintained. This is self -serve. So, everything you see in front of you here, it has an air, its own air condition. It has its own propane tanks as well, and it does have its own generator so itself. And also, doesn't need any water from us, or doesn't actually put water to that to the system itself, contains self -serve by itself. That's the way it's actually built. But how is that maintained? Maintained as far as, like, from inside? I mean, did you, can you throw the picture from inside? So inside and outside...technically, it's going to be like part of the building. I will have to make sure that's always, you know, have that good graphics now, not faded. All the paint is there from outside and from inside, as you can see, it's stainless steel, and you can immediately tell that this is very clean. Mr. Droze: September 10, 2024 31595 Maybe, if I could rephrase my question, it was more of a operationally, how, you know, obviously need water for cooking, and there's going to be wastewater and trash. That's what I'm saying. How is that? How would that be? Is that something that somebody comes to pick up and basically pumps it down every day? How does that work? Mr. Hamouch: Correct. I mean, everything has a container in it a capacity that can actually hold and then every so often it gets served by special people to come in and do that. So, we don't actually...they don't come in and plug in anything to our system of the of the station itself, by itself, okay? Mr. Droze: And then you'll have a, if I understand it correctly, generator running whenever it's an operation. Mr. Hamouch: Correct, but the generator is not like generator like, a noisy generator. It's very... it's kind of, what's the word for it? It's silent, right? The decibels is very, very low. You can even tell it's running, but it's a small, small operation. What does it need for, like a light and technically, the register and in during the wintertime or during the summer time, just for that HVAC to run., Mr. Droze: Mr. Droze: Okay, I do have a few other questions about the site plan as well. So, and this is just my review of the site plan. I believe that site plan should be accurate to the conditions as best you can present. So, there's a couple things that in reviewing it I wanted to ask about. The first one was the truck is going to be adjacent to the building, and it looked like it was about a 30 by 15-foot area that currently is occupied by a barrier free parking space, and I believe it looks like it's shown to be relocated to the other side of the building. If this is to be the case, it would seem to me like that needs to be part of this site plan. And I think the space based on just how it's typically done with best practices is that that space should be as close to the building as possible to provide barrier free access. And in addition to that, the building itself, I think, is up on a curb. So actually, if you're in a wheelchair, you actually can't get into the front door. So, I guess, from my view, these are things that, to me is, it's...this is a little incomplete, yeah? And I think, you know, especially if this basically is being a...I'm going to call it a permanent installation. I think there's additional site improvements that might be needed if you want to speak to any of that. Yeah, absolutely. So. Mr. Ventura actually brought up a good point. As we were expanding, where you see that red line, that actually the site plan is when we were expanding, right so that September 10, 2024 31596 expansion right there, I mean on the right-hand side, my apology, we should have actually crossed this out. There is a handicap right there to the right-hand side, and where the red zone is. It's 18 feet by 30. That one is 18 feet by 30, and we will not relocate the handicapped. There is enough actually to be able to... because the food truck is only eight feet. That's the what the width of it, and you can go up to 16 or 24 it depends on what you want to do. So, between eight and 10, if we have to be away from the structure, we have enough room. Now, as I said, my apology, because this was for the site plan that we have for the expansion, and it didn't happen. So, the relocating of the handicap, it will stay right there. And we do have 11 spaces of parking, plus a handicap there, plus eight of the pumps. So, in total, if you consider you can park at the pump is 19. So, we don't see an issue with relocating the handicap while that truck is there, and we will be able to service, but either said my apology that we should have actually crossed that handicap on the left-hand side and have it where the third car beside the red zone is, so that where that site plan came. And I'm being very I'm very honest about this as well. We were under the time crunch to have a table that you're meeting today, and that's what I had. And honestly, I did talk to my engineer, to architect. He didn't respond back to me to update it, only to show like everything as we need. I decided to mark it and, I did miss that handicap spot. It's just a spot there. It's still on the right-hand side, and you can see it from the Google Map. It's still there. Mr. Droze: Understood, and I think that's, you know, as we mentioned, this is our first. Mr. Hamouch: As I said, I'm up here in order to get the hammer. Mr. Droze: Yeah, we want to, I think we want to make this, you know, as concise as we can. And another point to that, if this is going to be a permanent installation, there's two wall pack lights on the building right in that area that, I guess. And what I'm getting at is, if this comes back, I'd like to see considerations for what photometric impacts that would have. If this is a large unit and it happens to block that, want to just make sure that site lighting is maintained. Mr. Hamouch: Absolutely. I mean, the unit does not go beyond like 9-10 feet, and those are set above, like 13 foot above. You can see those slides, so it's not going to, as a matter of fact, just going to provide more safety, because the lights will shine down toward that. Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Droze: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Droze: Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31597 Okay, I think I just like to see that flushed out a little bit more, just because, especially that's going to be up on a curb and how big the structure is. I think these are some details that I'd like to see a little more clarity to personally, like the height, the layout of it, you know. If there's gonna be ramping to get up to this. Ramping to get up where? To get your truck up on top of the...there's like some sidewalk in that. It's like a stamped concrete area right now? That's right, yeah. So, I think just to demonstrate how you're going to get that truck up there. And so, It's only four inches, which is, I mean, four inches you can go with the bike above. You don't need any, I mean, I'm not, I don't know how...what else can I explain how we're going to get the truck up? I mean, I can get you the measurement for where the...I mean, you can clearly see the where the projectors are, and the food truck is. I mean, sign of food truck here is not about 10 foot above you. I mean 10 foot the most you can get any food truck. My opinion on that is, I like to see that on paper, and I can visualize what you're saying, but, you know, we're seeing this truck for the first time, and I'm being considerate of that, and I'd like to have a chance to look at that a little more detail. Yeah, no problem. Anything else, Mr. Droze? Nothing more. All right, great. Thank you. Any other questions for the petitioner? Mr. Caramagno: What do you envision the hours being for the food truck? Mr. Hamouch: Like 11 to 11. Mr. Caramagno: Monday through Sunday? Mr. Hamouch: Yeah. Okay, and maybe Sunday like time, because no one leaves the house at night. Mr. Caramagno: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Caramagno: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Hamoush: Mr. Wilshaw: September 10, 2024 31598 And you envision it being a trailer like this on jack stands, chocked wheels chocked off and that's kind of how you envision it. I mean, just like that, or at a different there have those that Mr. Ventura actually mentioned as they have some of these that they can actually be, which is not this. This is more better looking than these actually drivable trucks. Okay, cooler outside, all that. That's kind of how it's going to look when it's when it's in operation. Yeah. Nice, beautiful graphics outside, cool, nice colors, you know, making sure that always clean, no paint chips, nothing. I mean, it's the corner of my store. I mean, at the end of the day, this is my name there in the corner. I don't want to hurt my name. Any other questions? There are no other questions. I do have one. Currently there's a outdoor ice storage unit there. Where is that going to go? To the other side. the approving resolution for your expansion of your business in 2019, I guess it's 2020, by the time we got it all done, had a provision that said that the sale of outdoor ice shall be restricted to, excuse me, the sale of ice shall be restricted to the inside of the building. That was part of the approving resolution. That's not being complied with. You're not allowed outdoor ice according to the t approval back in 2020. Okay, well, thank you for bringing this up, but it was actually the expansion, right? We didn't do an expansion at that time. We just did the facelift and the actually, we comply with all the every year. What do you call it? You know, the building inspection when he comes in. And, you know, we make sure that everything is whatever the city says so the city prohibits us from selling any wood logs outside. And we did that. We moved them out, and they only allow to have ice, just like any other gas stations outside, right? Well, we're typically as gas stations come to us for any facelifts or any sort of approvals of any plans, we always attach a number of requirements to those approving resolutions, and that would include things such as free air, no outdoor storage of or outdoor sale of merchandise other than oil, I believe, and that also includes a specific provision of the ice not being permitted outside in the approving resolution for your site. Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Dinaro: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Hamouch: Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Hamouch: September 10, 2024 31599 I totally agree with you, but so the expansion was eliminated that was actually going to sit inside. You're gonna ultimately have to answer to the Inspection Department when they were aware of this. They may have not noticed it, but just because you didn't necessarily go through the scale of your entire expansion doesn't mean that you're not bound by the conditions of that approving resolution. So, I just want to make that aware to you that it appears as if you're out of compliance for that aspect of that approving resolution. So, you may want to think about where that ice chest goes, and it may not want to be outdoors, because, again, that's not allowed right now. So, I just want to bring that to your attention, sir. Is there any other questions or comments? Are you going to be managing the food truck, or is this going to be like a third party? It's going to be under our management? Okay, that's a good question, because it could just be a completely separate entity operating that. Yeah. Okay, good. Any other questions, comments? There is no one left in the audience to speak for or against this petition, so there's no need to go to our audience and ask for comments. It's just Mr. Hamouch with us. Left. So, is there anything else that you'd like to say before we make our decision? No, absolutely not. I just as I said that that expansion, as I said, was to have enough storage to put these things. We made every possible thing to bring this up to what the city wants and the neighbor wants, and that corner to how it actually looks like. And if that expansion did happen, okay, we all needed the facelift. If that expansion did happen, would or actually have it to put it inside 100% but if you go inside the station now, I mean, honestly, there is no space for it. I mean, I did not do anything against what I understood. I understood that the expansion, if I this happened, I'm going to put it in and that's my intention. Wasn't actually to tweak anything, but that's totally where I came from. I understand it's not going to be my call to make anyway. I just wanted to bring it to your attention. I mean, I, that's my point of view on this. Okay, don't you think I was around the corner, but that's, you know, I'm just every other September 10, 2024 31600 gas station in Livonia, does have that, you know, freezer outside for ice. Mr. Wilshaw: Understood. Thank you. Thank you, sir. If there's no other comments or questions, I'll close the public hearing, and the motion would be in order. On a motion by Long, seconded by Caramagno, and adopted, it was #09-46-2024 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to City Council that Petition 2024-08-02-13 submitted by A & B Fuel Mart requesting waiver use approval under Section 6.51 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, to operate a food truck at the Shell gas station, 33411 Six Mile Road, located at the southwest corner of Six Mile and Farmington Roads in the Northeast' of Section 16, be denied for the following reasons 1. That the petitioner has failed to comply with all general standards and requirements as set forth in Section 6.51 of the Livonia Vision 21 Zoning Ordinance. 2. That the proposal is in conflict with the spirit and intent of the Zoning Ordinance to promote and encourage a balanced and appropriate mix of uses and not to oversaturate an area with similar uses; and That the petitioner has failed to sufficiently demonstrate that the site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; 4. That the petitioner has failed to comply with all the concerns deemed necessary for the safety and welfare of the City and its residents. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 13.13 of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Droze, Long, Ventura, Caramagno, Wilshaw NAYS: Dinaro ABSENT: Bongero ABSTAIN: None Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is denied. September 10, 2024 31601 Mr. Wilshaw: You will have 10 days in which you can appeal this decision in writing to the City Council. ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,218th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,218th Public Hearing and Regular Meeting held on August 20, 2024. On a motion by Long , seconded by Droze , and unanimously adopted, it was #09-47-2024 RESOLVED, That the Minutes of 1,218th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on August 20, 2024, are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Droze, Long, Ventura, Caramagno, Wilshaw NAYS: None ABSENT: Bongero ABSTAIN: Dinaro Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,219th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on September 10, 2024, was adjourned at 9:11 p.m. ATTEST: r Ian Wilshaw, Chairman CITY P k'NNING COMMISSION aramagno, Secretary