HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2018-10-30 l
MINUTES OF THE 1,132nd PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018, the City Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia held its 1,132nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City
Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members present: David Bongero Sam Caramagno Glen Long
Betsy McCue Carol Smiley Peter Ventura
Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: None
Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program
Supervisor, were also present.
Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City
Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective
seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the
professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their filing. The staff
has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which
the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2018-10-01-08 18th STREET
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
10-01-08 submitted by 18th Street Development, L.L.C. pursuant
to Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance#543, as
amended, requesting to rezone the property at 39000 Seven Mile
Road, located on the north side of Seven Mile Road between the
I-275/96 Expressway and Haggerty Road in the Southwest 1/4 of
Section 6, from M-1 (Light Manufacturing) to PO-I (High Rise
Professional Office — Maximum 6 Stories).
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Mr. Taormina: This request is to rezone property located at the northwest corner
of the I-275/96 Expressway and Seven Mile Road. It would
change the current zoning from M-1, Light Manufacturing, to PO-
I, High Rise Professional Office. This is a single tax identification
parcel with roughly 2,000 feet of frontage along the expressway
and another 460 feet of frontage on Seven Mile Road. Altogether,
it encompasses roughly 35 acres. The site contains a 290,000
square foot industrial building that is currently occupied by A123
Systems, which is a developer and manufacturer of lithium ion
phosphate batteries. A123 has announced that it will be vacating
the site next year. The change of zoning would allow for the future
possible development of the site for office purposes. The
proposed PO zoning classification would allow all permitted and
waiver uses in the OS zoning district, including professional and
general offices. Buildings in the PO-I district are required to be
over two stories with a maximum height of six stories. Looking at
the adjacent land uses and zoning, immediately to the north of
the site is an oil well that is operated by West Bay Exploration.
That property is zoned PO, Professional Office. Immediately to
the west is the Paragon Entertainment Complex that includes the
AMC 20 Theaters, the Hyatt Place Hotel as well as several
restaurants including J Alexander's, Bahama Breeze and BJ's
restaurant. The zoning of that property is C-2, General Business.
Immediately to the south across Seven Mile Road is the Seven
Mile Crossing Office complex that includes three multi-tenant
high rise office buildings zoned PO, Professional Office, as well
as Andiamo restaurant which is C-2, General Business, and also
Schoolcraft College zoned PL, Public Lands. Immediately to the
east is the expressway. The M-1 zoning of the property was
established in 1967 and was initiated by the City Planning
Commission. In 1985, the site was developed as the
headquarters for CBS Fox Video, which later became
TechnoColor. They produced VHS tapes and other entertainment
media at that location up until the mid-2000's when the site was
closed. It was then repurposed in 2009 as a battery production
facility for A123. The existing building does comply with all of the
PO district regulations with regard to yard setbacks, as well as
maximum ground coverage by principle buildings. The Future
Land Use Plan for the site designates the area for office
purposes, so the proposed PO zoning is consistent with the
Future Land Use Plan. With that, Mr. Chairman, I can read out
the departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 10, 2018, which reads
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as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced rezoning petition.
We have no objections to the proposed rezoning at this time. The
existing parcel is assigned the address of 39000 Seven Mile
Road. The legal description provided by the petitioner appears to
be correct and should be used in conjunction with his petition.
The existing parcels are currently serviced by public utilities, but
the information submitted does not show proposed connections
or calculations, so we cannot determine impacts to the existing
systems at this time. At the time of plan submittal for permitting,
the owner will need to provide proposed flow calculations for the
sanitary sewer and water service connections to determine if
there is capacity in the existing lines to service the proposed
project. Storm water detention has been provided for the parcel
with the previous development. The owner will need to determine
if the provided detention is sufficient for the additional runoff from
the proposed project, or provide additional detention as required
by the Wayne County Storm Water Ordinance. It should be noted
that the developer will need to field locate any wetlands on the
site and obtain permits from the Michigan Department of
Environmental Quality for any proposed disturbances within
those areas. Also, the owner will be required to obtain permits
from Wayne County and MDOT for any work within the Seven
Mile Road and 1-275 right-of-way's, respectively. If the proposed
project is approved, the owner should contact this department for
address assignments for the proposed additional buildings. We
will provide a detailed review once full Engineering site plans
have been submitted for approval."The letter is signed by David
W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from
the Treasurer's Department, dated October 11, 2018, which
reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the
Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address connected with the
above noted petition. At this time, there are no outstanding
amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have no objections to
the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda Scheel, Treasurer.
The third letter is from the Finance Department, dated October 5,
2018, which reads as follows: "I have reviewed the addresses
connected with the above noted petition. As there are no
outstanding amounts receivable, general or water and sewer, I
have no objections to the proposal."The letter is signed by Coline
Coleman, Chief Accountant. The next letter is from AF Jonna
Development and Management Co., dated October 25, 2018,
which reads as follows: "As the Owner and Developer of Haggerty
Center, L.L.C. located at 19784 and 19868 Haggerty Road, we
are excited to hear of the proposed rezoning of 39000 Seven Mile
Road. We highly encourage the approval of the rezoning
submitted and hope to see the continued development and
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growth of the City of Livonia." The letter is signed by Jordan
Jonna. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director? Hearing none,
is the petitioner here? We will need your name and address for
the record please.
Tom Kelly, 18th Street Development, L.L.C., 1621 18th Street, Suite 250, Denver,
Colorado 80202.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anything else you'd like to add from what you've heard
so far?
Mr. Kelly: Yes. I have a few slides I'd like to kind of talk through as we go
through them. Starting off, we're requesting the change to PO-I
zoning as we believe PO-I zoning promotes the highest and best
use of the subject property and provides us with flexibility over
the short and long term to be able to repurpose this property to
deliver a first-class commercial development. We feel the highest
and best use of the site is some form of professional office, and
it's based on its proximity to the interstate along with the
surrounding land uses. I won't repeat the current zoning around
there, but I would like to point out the PO zoning to the south, the
three buildings at Seven Mile are four stories in height, across
275 on the eastern portion of our property are buildings that range
from one to five stories. Just from the surrounding land uses, we
feel that our PO zoning is consistent with the surrounding land
uses. Next slide please. We look at this in terms of the current
industrial zoning is an island unto itself and looking at the overall
city's zoning industrial uses concentrated along the southern
portion of Interstate 96. Again, we feel that we are aligned with
the overall context of City of Livonia's zoning. Next map please.
Again,just to reiterate, looking at the Future Land Use Map, we're
aligned with the immediate area in terms of our intended land use
map, and again, similar to the overall City of Livonia zoning map,
the majority of the industrial is concentrated, rightfully so, right
along the Interstate 1-96 along the southerly boundary. Again, a
big reason why we chose this site and our going through the
vetting of our development is because we feel that we're aligned
with the City and want to be a partner in this development. Next
slide please. On this map, the subject property is approximately
35 acres and we will most likely have a multi-year phase
development approach due to the size of this property. This very
preliminary site plan on the screen indicates what we submitted
as part of our application. It contemplates the potential adaptive
reuse of the existing buildings. We're doing our diligence on the
feasibility of reusing some, maybe all, of the existing buildings
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while developing new buildings on other portions of the property.
At the same time, we're also looking at scenarios where we would
remove all of the existing buildings and start from scratch. The
existing buildings range from one to three stories in height and to
the extent that we utilize any of the existing structures that's under
three stories, which is in contrast to PO zoning, we would seek a
waiver from the City to allow us to continue to use any of the
structures that are one to two stories in height. I would like to point
out that a portion of the warehouse is currently being utilized as
the manufacturing facility for the batteries. If we were to
repurpose and utilize that building, we would not do any
manufacturing on that site, and as the applicant would be fine in
letting that manufacturing use go away. We would just use it for
other purposes other than manufacturing. As we progress
through the rezoning process, we're going to continue to refine
our development plan and we'll be in a better position at that time
to provide a more detailed site plan for this property. As we vet
through this and do our diligence, we're certainly looking at
scenarios such as doing a baseline traffic study with our traffic
engineer to understand what the traffic patterns are, where the
congestion points are and how our development may interact with
that and how we can plan accordingly. While we are too early in
the process to specifically show a site plan or renderings of what
we will ultimately develop, I would like to show you a few photos
that are indicative of the types of developments .... These are
examples of projects that we've developed in other regions
around the country and provide some context to the quality, scale
and scope of the development that we would embark on. This is
an 80,000 square foot building that's four stories in height. This is
an 85,000 square foot professional commercial building four
stories in height. This is a 120,000 square foot four story
commercial building. Again, this is just to try to give you some
context as to what we're embarking on and as we continue down
the rezoning process, we're going to continue to refine this and
be able to come to you with a more detailed site plan and be able
to talk accordingly. That concludes my presentation. I would be
happy to answer any questions the Commission may have.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Kelly. I just want to reiterate you did a fine job of
presenting this, that this is really a rezoning request that we're
looking at right now. Any site plan or conceptual ideas of how the
property is going to be used is purely conceptual at this point, and
our focus right now is, is this the appropriate zoning for this
location. So thank you for your presentation. With that, are there
any questions for our petitioner
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Ms. Smiley: With that kind of square footage, you're probably looking at a
national or a world headquarters for something.
Mr. Kelly: We're talking to various user groups right now. We have
developed properties that are multi-tenant and that could very
well be the scenario for this development as well. But right now,
while we're talking to various user groups, there are no definitive
agreements and now wouldn't be the appropriate time to
speculate.
Ms. Smiley: I do think the PO is the right zoning for this area and a good use
of it. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions?
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Kelly, you mentioned that a portion of the building is now
dedicated to manufacturing. Once A123 moves out, you would
not do another manufacturing use there?
Mr. Kelly: That's correct.
Mr. Ventura: So my question is, what do you do with that space? Is the clear
height of that space sufficient to turn it into two stories or would
you raze it? Exactly how would you handle that?
Mr. Kelly: We are exploring both options as far as repurposing it. Yes, I don't
know if the building is going to have enough clear height to make
it a two-story structure, but we're exploring what we have in terms
of existing assets there and how we could repurpose it, and again
at the same time, we're also looking at the cost-benefit analysis
and the feasibility of starting with a clean slate.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Kelly. Is there anybody in
the audience that wishes to speak for or against this item? Please
come forward.
David Fishman, President, Universal Properties, 38701 Seven Mile, Livonia,
Michigan. I'd like to start by thanking the Commission and also
the City for all the great work that you do to improve the City and
also help continue to make the City attractive to companies and
businesses and developers that want to come here. So that's
something that above all is very important. The issue that I'd like
to flag relative to this question is not to ask about the merits of
continuing to improve and rezone, but it really has to do with the
traffic question and whether or not we're set up with the
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infrastructure that is appropriate to support the rezoning that
we're looking at. We own the office complex which is immediately
to the south of this site where Andiamo is located and the three
buildings which is the Siemens building, the DHL building, and
the WorkForce Software. During our ownership, we have
continued to observe a pattern of traffic accidents which are on
Seven Mile Road. The situation has been improved by the signal
that Schoolcraft College has added to Seven Mile Road between
the freeway and Haggerty, but our particular boulevard entrance
and egress does not have a signal, and there are many occasions
where there is a pattern of traffic accidents, both in terms of
people turning to the east to get on the freeway and having to, in
many cases, burn rubber on their tires to beat out traffic rushing
to the freeway, and also people trying to turn west when there
isn't a traffic signal to try to head towards Northville. So with that
context, we're now talking about a development situation and
picture where we have additional development in Northville, we
have wonderful things happening on Haggerty with the Jonna
development and multi-family, we have more corporate offices
coming at the corner of Haggerty and Seven Mile. So this is
providing additional traffic and now with this rezoning, we'd be
looking at additional traffic. So the question really becomes, are
we prepared for that and do we need to have a traffic study, a
safety study, to make sure it's all part of that rezoning question to
provide for the infrastructure for it. That's really the purpose of the
conversation. Any questions that you might have of me?
Mr. Wilshaw: Any questions for Mr. Fishman?
Mr. Ventura: One question. Mr. Fishman, can you get from your site at Seven
Mile Crossing to the driveway that was just signalized that comes
from Schoolcraft College?
Mr. Fishman: There is a curb cut and we have an easement so that our
occupants can access that light. The question that I'm curious
about is that our boulevard entrance is directly across from the
boulevard drive entrance to 39000 and so, if we're now talking
about moving from light industrial to high density professional
office, which could be either a density corporate headquarters or
medical office of some type, it's going to be a significant multi-fold
of traffic ingressing and egressing from that point, when we
already have a problem with our site. So again, not a question
about the merits of development. It's wonderful for everybody but
wanting to make sure we have the infrastructure there.
Mr. Ventura: To be clear, the people on your site can get to the signal?
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Mr. Fishman: They can, but interestingly enough . . . .
Mr. Ventura: I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to minimize what
you're saying. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for Mr. Fishman? Thank you, Mr. Fishman. I
appreciate that. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to
speak for or against this item? We have one more gentleman
coming forward.
Glen Cerny, 18600 Haggerty Road, Livonia, Michigan. The VP-CFO here at
Schoolcraft College. We wanted to reiterate what David Fishman
said. We're excited about all the development that Mark and his
team are providing for the City of Livonia and we're excited about
all those components. The issue we want to raise is again the
traffic. We spent a lot of time in 2014-15 in putting in traffic studies
and traffic impact pieces on Seven Mile Crossing to our campus.
Obviously, as you know, we never had a Seven Mile Road access
until we purchased the Jeffress Center building that's on Seven
and Haggerty. When we did that, we created that signal, which is
a fantastic piece, but when the analysis was done, it didn't take
into account the further development of the Jonna property. It
didn't take into account the sports dome that's now in there, and
also the continued development of Northville. Northville is
becoming very extensive in terms of development. So we just
want to make sure that our students are safe and not causing
issues on Seven Mile getting in and out of the parking, because
we spent a lot of time with the ring road that we developed to push
a lot of traffic off of Haggerty onto our campus. So you see we
used to have big huge parking lots and now we don't. They're
very curb cut thanks to Masco being headquartered there. They
provide easy access in and out, but we just want to make sure to
reiterate that the traffic is going to be an issue. We see it today
on Seven Mile and it backs up at 6:00 at night. We see it on
Haggerty too as well and I know as the Jonna property gets going.
We know you guys will do the work and Mark is very capable of
making sure all those traffic and impact studies are done, but
we're excited about the proposal. We just wanted to make sure
we were heard. We appreciate the time.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Cerny. I appreciate that. Is there any comments
for Mr. Cerny? I don't see any. Thank you for coming, I appreciate
that. Anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or against
this item? I don't see anyone else. Mr. Kelly, is there anything
else you would like to add?
Mr. Kelly: No.
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Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. With that, if there are no other comments or questions, I'll
close the public hearing and a motion would be in order.
Mr. Ventura: I think Mr. Kelly is bringing a potential improvement to the City
and it conforms to the Master Plan. So I'd like to offer an
approving resolution.
On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#10-70-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on October 30, 2018, on
Petition 2018-10-01-08 submitted by 18th Street Development,
L.L.C. pursuant to Section 23.01 of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, requesting to rezone the property
at 39000 Seven Mile Road, located on the north side of Seven
Mile Road between the I-275/96 Expressway and Haggerty Road
in the Southwest % of Section 6, from M-1 to PO-I, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2018-10-01-08 be approved for the following reasons:
1. That the proposed change of zoning is compatible to and in
harmony with the surrounding land uses and zoning districts
in the area;
2. That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the
developing character of the area;
3. That the proposed change of zoning would provide for the
development of the subject property in a manner that is
appropriate with its size and location;
4. That the proposed change of zoning to PO-I, Hight Rise
Professional Office, will allow development of the site for its
highest and best use; and
5. That the proposed change of zoning is supported by the
Future Land Use Plan which recommends office use in this
area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any discussion?
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Mr. Long: Just a point of clarification. So this is for the zoning, and any
future development on this would require a site plan and it would
have to come back and a traffic study could, of course, be part of
that. Is that correct?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, traffic studies are typically involved in the site plan because
we really need to understand what the square footage is and the
usage of the property to determine the traffic counts. Typically
what happens, also for the audience's benefit, is if this rezoning
request is passed, it will go on to City Council. The City Council
typically will hold rezoning requests until the site plan comes
forward and then try to approve them simultaneously. So this is
the first step of many steps in the process. I hope that answers
your question, Mr. Long.
Mr. Long: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
recommendation.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2018-09-03-01 NOLTE VACATING
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
09-03-01 submitted by Jeffery and Tracy Nolte, pursuant to
Council Resolution #334-18 and Section 12.08 of the Livonia
Code of Ordinances of the City of Livonia, as amended, to
determine whether or not to vacate the existing ten (10) foot wide
public sidewalk that runs along the north side of Lot 94 of Arbor
Estates Subdivision (9386 Knolson), located on the east side of
Knolson Avenue between Northfield Avenue and Ann Arbor Road
in the Southwest % of Section 31.
Mr. Taormina: This is a request to vacate an existing 10-foot wide right-of-way
that was dedicated on the plat of Arbor Estates Subdivision for
public walkway purposes. This walkway runs along the north side
of Lot 94, which is owned by the petitioners, the Noltes, who
reside at 9386 Knolson. The abutting property on the opposite
side of the walkway, which is 9394 Knolson, is located just
outside of the subdivision. This right-of-way was established in
1966 at the time Arbor Estates Subdivision was officially
approved and recorded with the Wayne County Register of
Deeds. For approximately 50 years, the sidewalk provided
pedestrian access from Knolson Street to Washington
Elementary School. In 2016, the school site was redeveloped as
a single family condominium called Washington Park. The
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approved plans for Washington Park show the existing sidewalk
connecting to a new sidewalk that would run north for a distance
of approximately 300 feet where it would connect to an existing
sidewalk on Ann Arbor Road. The new sidewalk would be located
within a general common area that is between the west lot line of
the condominium development and the rear of Units 42 through
45. This plan shows the sidewalk is required to be built as part of
the Washington Park development. It connects to the existing
sidewalk that is the subject of this vacating petition. The Noltes
contend that the subject walkway between Knolson and Ann
Arbor Road is not needed, and the portion that is existing located
in the right-of-way abutting their property should be vacated and
subsequently removed. The right-of-way is encumbered by an
existing storm sewer that will require a full width maintenance
easement in the event that it is vacated. Utilities companies,
including DTE and Consumers Energy, have received notification
of this request and are not objecting to the vacating petition.
There is no official determination at this time relative to the
disposition of title for any portion of the right-of-way should it be
vacated. With that, Mr. Chairman, I will be happy to read out the
departmental correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, please.
Mr. Taormina: There are several items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 18, 2018, which reads
as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above referenced vacating petition. We
have no objections to the proposed vacating at this time, although
the City will need to retain a full-width easement across the
vacated property to service the existing public storm sewer and
any other utilities. The portion of right-of-way to be vacated is
described as follows: A ten (10) foot wide public walkway lying
north and adjacent to Lot 94, Arbor Estates Subdivision, as
recorded in Liber 88, Page 87, Wayne County Records, said
subdivision being part of the S.W. % of Section 31, T. 1 S., R. 9
E., City of Livonia, Wayne County, Michigan. If the vacating
petition is approved, the owner would be responsible for the
removal of the existing concrete sidewalk, and relocation of any
fencing to the new property line at their discretion. Also, no
structures or permanent barriers would be allowed to be
constructed on top of the proposed easement." The letter is
signed by David W. Lear, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The
second letter is from the Treasurer's Department, dated
September 27, 2018, which reads as follows: "In accordance with
your request, the Treasurer's Office has reviewed the address
connected with the above noted petition. At this time, there are
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no outstanding amounts receivable for taxes. Therefore, I have
no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by Lynda
Scheel, Treasurer. The third letter is from the Finance
Department, dated October 1, 2018, which reads as follows: "I
have reviewed the addresses connected with the above noted
petition. As there are no outstanding amounts receivable, general
or water and sewer, I have no objections to the proposal." The
letter is signed by Coline Coleman, Chief Accountant. The next
letter is from Consumers Energy, dated October 12, 2018, and
reads as follows: "Consumers Energy has no concerns regarding
vacating the right-of-way at 9386 Knolson Street." The letter is
signed by Kate Barrera. The next letter is from Eric and Shook,
dated October 30, 2018, which reads as follows: "This letter is in
regard to the petition to vacate the existing sidewalk located
between 9386 Knolson Street and 9394 Knolson Street. We
would first like to make it known that the petitioners, Jeff and
Tracy Nolte, have been our neighbors for many years. Jeff and
Tracy care about our neighborhood and are the kind of neighbors
and friends that truly make our community a better place to live.
At the same time, we respectfully disagree with vacating the
sidewalk in question. As you probably know, this sidewalk is
intended to connect with a sidewalk that is part of the approved
site plan for Washington Park (see attachment). The connecting
sidewalk has not yet been constructed. Essentially, to vacate the
sidewalk off Knolson Street would result in vacating the sidewalk
not yet built in Washington Park. This is a consequence not
known by most people because, presently, the sidewalk in
question has not been safe to use for a long time. In fact, it is
overgrown with brush and damaged as a result of the
development. It is difficult if not impossible to predict its
usefulness when it has not yet been completed. Admittedly, this
is not the ideal route to get from Dover Arbor Estates to the new
park in Washington Park, but, it is safer than walking past a party
store and an auto mechanic shop. This was the reason the
sidewalk was included in the site plan for Washington Park. Many
communities are making it a priority to create more safe and
inviting pedestrian paths. This can be accomplished by finishing
the walkway in Washington Park, repairing the existing sidewalk
and making sure that path is maintained. Livonia is known for
being a great, family community. Safe and maintained walkways
will encourage this tradition." The letter is from Eric and Theresa
Shook, 9397 Knolson Street, Livonia, Michigan 48150. That is the
extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any questions of the Planning Director?
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Mr. Ventura: Mr. Taormina, at the study session there was a fair amount of
conversation about the fact that if these two walkways were
eliminated, that the children going to the park would have to walk
up to the corner on Ann Arbor Road and then walk through the
parking lot of a the liquor store on the corner and then through
the parking lot at the auto mechanic's shop, which was less than
desirable and not nearly as attractive as having the walkways.
So, one of the questions that was asked of you at that time, and
I want you to correct me if I'm wrong, was could the walkway stop,
the new walkway in the new development, stop short of Ann Arbor
Road and a walk be created on the south side of the detention
pond to the park so the children that went from the subdivision
and on the new walk to get to the park would not end up next to
the road. The answer as I recall was that could not be done as
we have an approved site plan here. Do I remember that
accurately?
Mr. Taormina: That is accurate. While it could be accomplished, it would require
the cooperation of the developer of Washington Park to make that
change.
Mr. Ventura: So then if we were to approve this petition tonight vacating this
walkway, the walkway that the new developer's obligated to build
in the new subdivision would be walkway from nowhere to
nowhere.
Mr. Taormina: Yes. Should it be vacated, I would anticipate that the developer
of Washington Park would file a petition to eliminate the
requirement to build that sidewalk.
Mr. Ventura: So we have a choice of either going back to the Council and
creating a walk south of the detention pond or going back to the
Council to vacate the whole thing, essentially - one or the other
depending on the outcome of the action here tonight.
Mr. Taormina: I don't believe the City is in a position to unilaterally relocate the
sidewalk on the Washington Park site plan given the fact that the
plan has been approved.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Are there any other questions for our Planning staff?
Mr. Bongero: The way it is on this drawing is how it was approved and how it
was presented last year or two years ago or whenever
Washington Park was being proposed.
October 30, 2018
28812
Mr. Taormina: That's correct.
Mr. Bongero: I'm just struggling with why are we trying to change it now? It's
what it was. There's no good way. It's a public park so kids are
naturally going to want to go to it, and I think this offers somewhat
of a safety net to keep them from walking past the party store and
auto shop. My feelings are, why are we looking to change it now?
That's all I have to say.
Mr. Caramagno: My question is, if it's approved, the concrete has to be removed
or can they leave it there?
Mr. Taormina: As was indicated by the Department of Engineering, that would
be at the discretion of the homeowners should they gain title of
that property. Again, it's uncertain at this time, although we
believe that the full 10 feet would be titled to the Noltes. If that's
the case, then they would have to make the decision on where
and how much of that sidewalk would be removed and there
would be certain restrictions, as was indicated, relative to the
placement of any structures or improvements within that 10-foot
area given the fact that there is a storm sewer and an easement
will have to be retained to maintain that storm sewer.
Mr. Caramagno: And then how about the fence? The fence comes right to the
sidewalk I think. The chain link fence goes all the way out to the
sidewalk there. Would they be required or is that at their
discretion also?
Mr. Taormina: Again, I think that is probably at their discretion, but if they own
that 10 feet, my guess is that they would want to remove or
relocate the fence such that they could encompass it within the
confines of their property and make it easier for them to secure
that area and maintain it.
Mr. Caramagno: Thank you.
Ms. McCue: Just out of curiosity, when the previous plan was approved for the
other sidewalk, when was that determined that it was going to be
put in?
Mr. Taormina: Are we talking about the 10-foot easement'?
Ms. McCue: The other part, the connecting piece.
Mr. Taormina: The connecting piece was decided at the time the site plan was
approved.
October 30, 2018
28813
Ms. McCue: When would that be done, though?
Mr. Taormina: It was in 2016, and I believe this plan you're looking at here was
one that the Planning Commission reviewed. This was
recommended by the Planning Commission and subsequently
approved by the City Council.
Ms. Smiley: I'm looking at this map with the addresses. It looks like that
property where the sidewalk is that goes behind 9361, 9371,
9379, actually belongs to 38600. Is that right?
Mr. Taormina: Let me explain that. The address of 38600 is merely an address
given to that parcel which is a general common element within
the condominium. That will be owned and maintained by the
Association.
Ms. Smiley: So that's common land?
Mr. Taormina: That is a general common area. It's not public land. The public
area, the park at 38550, is the green area that shows on this plan.
That is correct. The other area is privately held by the
Association.
Ms. Smiley: If they vacated that sidewalk, they wouldn't automatically go
back. They would have to petition to go back too, right?
Mr. Taormina: That is correct.
Ms. Smiley: So you're going to have to resurvey all that. And we haven't heard
from the people at 9394 Knolson, the other side of the sidewalk,
that they want to vacate. It just automatically goes to the Nolte's.
Mr. Taormina: Have we heard from them? Since this petition has been filed, no,
I have not spoke to the owner of 9394 Knolson. The owner
provided comments during the original Washington Park
development. I believe the owner of that property did represent
himself at those meetings. Again, it has not been officially
determined relative to the disposition and title if the area is
vacated. Under normal circumstances, if 9394 was part of the
subdivision, the 10-foot area would be divided such that the north
half would go to 9394 and the south half would go to 9386. The
unique circumstance here is that 9394 resides outside of the
subdivision, which I indicated earlier. So I don't believe the statute
provides that they would gain title to any part of the vacated right-
of-way, which — as I previously said - was dedicated with the
platting of Arbor Estates Subdivision. And since 9386 is the only
property abutting the right-of-way that is within the subdivision,
October 30, 2018
28814
it's my contention that they would probably obtain title to all 10
feet. But that's something, again, that our Legal Department has
to verify and there may have to be a title search and some other
things done prior to a final decision on that.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. Are there sidewalks that go up on Knolson all the way up
to Ann Arbor Road? I know there are sidewalks on all of Ann
Arbor Road.
Mr. Taormina: Yes. There are sidewalks that continue north along the east side
of Knolson Avenue tying into an existing sidewalk along Ann
Arbor Road that runs east and west and would continue east to
the park in question. It doesn't show on this aerial photograph
unfortunately, but there are sidewalks on both streets, Knolson
and Ann Arbor Road.
Ms. Smiley: There just doesn't seem to be a good way to get these people to
the park. At some point, they're going to have to walk on Ann
Arbor Road, aren't they? The people from that subdivision if they
go there and there, then they're going to take a sidewalk up to
Ann Arbor Road. The only advantage would be that they would
miss two businesses, right?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. I think that's the position. One bypasses the commercial
businesses along Ann Arbor Road and the other one requires you
to walk in front of them if you traverse the sidewalks.
Ms. Smiley: The new subdivision would maintain the sidewalks that go up to
Ann Arbor Road and then turn right to go to the park. Right?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. I don't know how that has been established within the
condominium Master Deed and Bylaws, but I'm guessing that
there's some provision in there that allows the sidewalk to be
utilized for public purposes with the maintenance being borne by
the Association. I believe that's the case. I have not looked into
that in detail, but as I recall from the discussions, there was no
indication that the City would maintain the sidewalk, that that
would be borne by the Association, and since it connects to an
existing public walkway, there would have to be some kind of an
easement for public walkway purposes, probably within a very
defined area, the four or five feet that makes up that sidewalk.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Caramagno: Mark, would the residents of 9361, 71, 79 and 87, be eligible to
buy that land behind them or is that locked out?
October 30, 2018
28815
Mr. Taormina: That would require an amendment to the Master Deed and
exhibits of the Master Deed and also the site plan. So it is
conceivable, but there would be a process first with approval by
the developer and/or Association, or maybe the developer would
initiate that change in cooperation with those homeowners, and
then it would have to go through an approval process to amend
the site plan as well as the Master Deed and Bylaws.
Mr. Caramagno: So they would buy that from the Association?
Mr. Taormina: In terms of any purchase, I don't know if that would involve
monetary consideration or not. I don't know.
Mr. Caramagno: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions. Mr. Caramagno, just for your benefit,
typically when a condominium association, which is what this is,
changes its land area, especially common elements, if they are
reduced or added in size, it requires 100 percent approval of all
homeowners of that development as well because you are
essentially taking away common area that's owned in part by
everyone in that development.
Mr. Caramagno: Sure.
Mr. Wilshaw: It would be part of the details of the Master Deed, but typically it
requires 100 percent approval, so it's generally quite difficult to
do that. Anyway, with that, our petitioner is here. Please come
forward. Good evening. We will need your name and address for
the record please.
Jeffery Nolte, 9386 Knolson, Livonia, Michigan.
Tracy Nolte, 9386 Knolson, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Wilshaw: Anything else that you'd like to add from what you've heard.
You've heard quite a bit already. Anything else you'd like to say?
Mr. Nolte: Yes. I definitely would like to add one clarification. We made it
known that there was no parks in our area within the subdivision
within a few different subdivisions within the area. North of Ann
Arbor Road there wasn't one. East of Hix there was not a park
either. The City was wonderful enough to actually put an
additional park, play structure, in the southwest corner of the
subdivision. So even if it makes it a little bit difficult for the kids to
go there, which I don't believe it makes it any more difficult, there
is a park within the subdivision itself.
October 30, 2018
28816
Mr. Wilshaw: Very good. Anything else? Any questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Nolte, can you tell us why you brought this petition? I mean
this is a piece of land that's 10-feet wide. It's going to be
encumbered by an easement so you can't use it for anything
other than to grow grass, and conceivably will increase your
assessed value that you pay extra taxes on it. So, why are you
doing this? Can you tell me why you're doing this?
Mr. Nolte: Sure. Absolutely. Right now, we have the sidewalk that goes
between our house and our neighbor's house to the north. It's
lined by fences on both sides and it was great when it went to the
school, to the field where the football teams played and
everything. It was awesome. When we did petition to have the
park installed within the subdivision, on my end I didn't follow
through and find out exactly where the sidewalk was going to go.
We assumed that it was just going to continue straight since it's
a very short run. We did not know that they were going to turn it
north to go to Ann Arbor Road. For us, with the neighbors now
being able to build fences on the back of their property, anybody
walking along that sidewalk now can be fenced in by a sidewalk.
So you're basically making a tunnel from Knolson Street all the
way up to Ann Arbor Road. To me, I feel safer walking Knolson
Street to Ann Arbor Road than walking through a tunnel lined by
fences. And you're only crossing basically a couple entrances
from the party store and from the auto shop. We do a lot of
gardening and landscaping in our yard and that's pretty much
what we would increase the size. And if you look at our plot, our
plot only has 25 feet in the back. It's a very narrow land.
Mr. Ventura: Thank you.
Mr. Long: I'd like to ask you about your plans. Would you move the fence if
you got all 10 feet and would you take the sidewalk out?
Mr. Nolte: The sidewalk would be removed, absolutely, and we would fence
in the yard within whatever confines we have with that sewer. I
guess that was the one thing I wasn't clear on, whether that still
can be accessible from our yard being fenced in or whether we
have to leave that open to the common in the back. I guess that
was the part I was not clear on, but yes, if I could fence it in, it
would be fenced in.
Mr. Long: My understanding is they could build a fence.
October 30, 2018
28817
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for our petitioner? Is there anyone in the
audience wishing to speak for or against this item, and then we'll
ask you to come back up.
Mark Jones, 9394 Knolson, Livonia, Michigan. Good evening. I'm on the other
side of the walkway. I just want to say that when they put in that .
. . it's not really a park. What they did is, a lot of people
complained because there were using that park for football,
baseball, and people were coming from all over Livonia. When
your developers said he's going to build homes there, everybody
came in here and said, oh my god. We want to use that park. So
the developer, to end that, said I'll build a park to make you
people happy. Then you guys said, okay you can build your
homes. He's going to give you a park. All he did, Rainbow swing
set. I'm sure you all know what that is. Rainbow swing set. One
swing set out on Ann Arbor Road. I have yet to see anybody play
on it and I'm home all the time and I drive up and down Ann Arbor
Road. I've never seen even the people that are close. I guess the
people that live right across from that swing set don't have
children, because I've never seen any children on it. But if you
drive by it, you'll realize that the builder didn't really build a park.
There's no picnic tables. There's no shade trees. There's a giant
Rainbow swing set. Done. So I'm sure the builder, if you told him
you don't gotta cement that walkway, I'm sure he would be elated.
Anyway, I was just making sure that if the property does get
divided up, that's it's divided up between me and my neighbor. I
don't really see no purpose. There's been nobody walking on that
sidewalk since the new sub. I walk down there because I thought,
I got two grandchildren, six and seven, and I said, you know, I'll
take you over to that swing set because they used to play there.
So I walked them down there and the walkway goes right into, I
don't know which home, but they sodded right to the end of the .
. . so I had to tiptoe on the guy's sod to get to the street to get to
that swing set. We only did it one time. I let them play on the
Rainbow and took them back and I said we can't really cut across
this guy's yard. But I'm sure the developer, if you raised cane and
say okay, put in the sidewalk, but right now, that walkway goes
right into a guy's backyard. If you walk down the walkway, you'll
realize that maybe I better tell this guy who I am because he's
liable to come out and say what are you doing on my lawn. I've
seen nobody use the sidewalk and I've seen nobody use the
swing set.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Jones, the developer is required to put a sidewalk in back
there. He hasn't done that yet. There will be additional pavement
there, if this petition is not approved, at some point by the
developer.
October 30, 2018
28818
Mr. Jones: I did have one other question. Let's suppose you want to keep
the thing open, which is fine with me, and you want to have your
walkway. I mean I don't really need that extra three feet. It's not
going to make me stay up at night, and I doubt whether it will
make my property value go up, but who is supposed to maintain
that, because one day, my wife called me and said, hey the city
was here. I said what do they want?They said you gotta maintain
that walkway on your side. My neighbors don't have many trees.
I got a lot of trees. Theirs is pretty much maintained, but my limbs
go over onto the sidewalk. So I said really. That guy must not
know what he's doing because the city owns that property, so that
wouldn't be for me to maintain it. But I did have a guy, I had a
crew, so I said, hey do me favor. Run down that sidewalk and
make that flush with that fence. And he did it. $125. I didn't really
want to argue with the City. But my question is this, you own the
property obviously. It's up to you to whether you want to give it to
us, but let's say you don't want to give it to us and you do want to
go ahead and put in your sidewalk, like I say, which is absolutely
fine with me. I have no qualms about it, but who is going to
maintain that sidewalk? Is the City going to send a guy out there?
Because my neighbors told me at one time, that they sent, in the
wintertime when that was a Washington Elementary School, they
sent plow trucks and plowed down that path and you could walk
down it in the wintertime. And then he said they just quit doing it.
So, I mean is the City going to send a guy out once a month to
take care of that, or am I mistaken when that guy knocked on my
door. Am I supposed to maintain it?
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Jones, the sidewalk, and I'll check with Mr. Taormina here in
one second, my understanding is that a public sidewalk is a
requirement of the adjacent homeowners to maintain, just like
you would the sidewalk that's in the front of your house. Even
though you don't own the property that your front sidewalk is on,
you're still responsible to shovel it and maintain it. Is that correct,
Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: That's correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: So even that side sidewalk would be the same thing. Now when
the school was there, it wouldn't surprise me if the school district
wouldn't, to facilitate accesses for kids to get to school, maybe
clean that sidewalk for you, but it is your responsibility.
Mr. Jones: Okay. I thought he was crazy. If they would have told me now
don't forget when you sign this, are you paying cash for this
home? Yeah. Don't forget, the City's got an easement there. You
October 30 2018
0 8
28819
got to take care of that. I would have said, woah, wait a minute. I
just had a five-way bypass. What's wrong with Livonia? So they
must have been making a mistake when they were sending down
the plows when they were plowing it before. It's up to you guys,
but I'm telling you right now that the developer, just to get off the
hook, put a Rainbow swing set, the same one that I bought for
my grandchildren. That's his idea of a park. If you want to drive
down Ann Arbor Road, you can look at it and you'll never find
anybody playing on it. But it's up to you guys. But I just want to
make sure if that land is divided, that it's between me and him.
But anyway, that's all I wanted to say. But there is nobody playing
on that, if he's going to put in a sidewalk, if you're going to tell him
{
that hey, listen, you got to go ahead and you dropped the ball
here. You need to put in that sidewalk like you were supposed to
do in the beginning, and also this park that you built, we need you
to add a couple shade trees and a couple picnic tables so
everybody knows it's a park because right now, they think that
the people that are in the subdivision put a Rainbow swing set in
their front yard. That's what they think. There is nobody playing
on it because they think they're going to be run off.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Jones. Anyone else in the audience wishing to
speak?
John Sobaszko, 9353 Liberty Court, Livonia, Michigan. I'm in favor of their petition.
Like Mr. Jones said, the sidewalk gets no use. It empties into
people's backyards, and since the school and the playground are
gone, there's really no use for it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, sir.
Darrell Little, 9341 Mare Court, Livonia, Michigan. I live just down the street, and
nobody uses it. Nobody goes through there and I've never seen
no kids on the play area out there. So I'm for him.
Robert Morgan, 9379 Liberty Court, Livonia, Michigan. To be a little fair about the
park, it's not a great park, but it doesn't even have swings. It's got
four slides. My kids play on it a lot. It's not great. They're
supposed to redo it and make a better one, but there are two
sidewalks that go down Knolson and they don't have to walk
through the parking lot of the mechanics. They got a sidewalk.
And we are three houses to the north - 9371, 9379 and 9387
Liberty. We're all going to privacy fences so it will be a tunnel.
Mr. Wilshaw: Good to know. Thank you.
Ms. Smiley: Sir, if I could. So, do you want them to vacate the sidewalk'?
October 30, 2018
28820
Mr. Morgan: Oh, I'm sorry. I want the sidewalk to be gone because there will
be people walking through our backyards, the three houses, the
four houses. I got two kids under four.
Mr. Wilshaw: Sir, we have one more question.
Mr. Caramagno: Are you on Knolson?
Mr. Morgan: No, I'm on 9379 Liberty Court.
Mr. Caramagno: Oh. Okay.
Mr. Taormina: My question relates to the fence. If it was vacated and the
sidewalk no longer required behind your homes, would you still
place a privacy fence along your property?
Mr. Morgan: Yes.
Mr. Taormina: Okay. Thank you.
Chirag Parikh, 9361 Liberty Court, Livonia, Michigan. I've been staying in that
house since two months. I've not seen anyone going through the
walkway. So I think it's better to vacate the land by the City and
give it to the Knolson owner.
Dr. Christine Eskander, 9387 Liberty Court, Livonia, Michigan. Again, I am also
doing a privacy fence with Rob Morgan, 9379 and Lori at 9371. I
do have concerns about people walking behind my house in kind
of like a tunnel effect, and honestly, a tunnel, I don't think is very
safe, especially with a bend like that, especially with children in
the area. I think if I were in the Knolson complex, I would prefer
the street because it has more visibility and again you're not
walking behind someone's fence or yard. I think that over time the
wrong people are going to be using that sidewalk because there
is a party store there and there is a yard there with auto parts, so
people that have some shady dealings with the auto place or want
to ... they'd be covered. It would be a good cover for them. Also
alcohol from the party store I am very sure will find it's way on that
sidewalk and other things.
Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Long, do you have a question?
Mr. Long: I heard Mr. Morgan say that you want to build a privacy fence
either way, correct?
Dr. Eskander: Yes. It's already bought and paid for.
October 30, 2018
28821
Mr. Long: Okay. So here's my concern. If we vacate this and close that
sidewalk off, and you build it anyway, now we've got ... we don't
have a tunnel, but we've got a dead end.
Dr. Eskander: No. We already had this conversation with the developers, both
Rico's Belagio's Homes and Infinity, and both of them did inform
us that the land is pretty much ours, that they wanted us to
continue our fence all the way and that we would be maintaining
it. I agree with them. Then it will be all clean. It would be
maintained. It would be off the Association's hands, less money
for the rest of the Association to distribute over the rest of the
landowners because we do have two large retention areas to
maintain and a playground. So that area I am very sure is going
to get neglected unless we close it in and include it into our
backyard.
Mr. Long: So if the sidewalk remains open, you will build the privacy fence
on your current property line. If the sidewalk is closed, then you
will push that fence back to the common property line'?
Dr. Eskander: Yes. And it will be clean and maintained and there would be no
one walking back there or hiding.
Mr. Long: I understand the appeal of it, but my concern is that you've had
discussions with the developer, but that's kind of hearsay to us. I
would have a bigger concern about a privacy fence on your
current property line right now and creating a strip of grass that's
fenced in. That would be a bigger area where you have . . .
Dr. Eskander: Exactly. That's why he discussed it with us.
Mr. Long: Drinking and problems.
Dr. Eskander: Exactly. I do not care for extra land. I hate grass. I want Astroturf.
I've been telling people I want Astroturf since last July when I
signed for this house before it was built. I'm still leaning towards
that. I love cement. So less to mow and maintain. So adding more
responsibility to me, more land, it's just responsibility on me. It is
not going to increase the value of my house. Honestly, it's just
extra maintenance for me, but I know that I'm safe because the
fence goes all the way to the edge there, and I do have plans with
Lois, who is doing the fence, to have a gate back there so I can
clean it up too.
Mr. Long: Mr. Taormina, obviously we're going to vote on this today unless
it gets tabled. We have no correspondence from the developer
October 30, 2018
28822
agreeing to what's been presented to us here today about the
privacy fences being able to be moved or anything like that.
Mr. Taormina: Yes. This is news to me. I will say this, that doesn't eliminate the
fact that it's common area. I don't believe it becomes limited
common area or part of the unit, if you will, by any action of the
Planning Commission or City Council that would vacate this
walkway. I think what they are talking about would get sorted out
at such time that the developer would have to petition the City
Council to eliminate that sidewalk. When that occurs, then I think
the determination on what happens to that common area, is it
retained and does it become part of those lots? And if so, are
there easements retained for access to the storm sewer? So
either way, that probably gets sorted out at a later date relative to
the site plan for Washington Park. Their plans right now to place
a privacy fence, I'm not sure where that fits in with the approvals
with the Master Deed. So if the sidewalk is required, are they
entitled to a privacy fence along the back of their properties?
That's something that I guess the Association would have to
determine as part of the Master Deed and Bylaws. Typically,
they're not allowed in these developments, but there may have
been an exception made for these particular lots because of the
unique arrangement here. Again, I think it gets sorted out at a
later date with the Council and when the plan for Washington
Park moves forward.
Mr. Long: So if we were to, as a body tonight, approve this and it didn't get
sorted out in a timely manner, theoretically you would have that
sidewalk closed off, the Noltes will extend their fence, so that will
be closed off.
Mr. Taormina: Correct.
Mr. Long: And again, this is all hypothetical, but I'm just playing it forward.
You will have this tunnel if that has not been resolved yet. The
Noltes have closed off their additional property and Mr. Jones, if
he gets it as well. So you have a dead end there, but you still
would have that strip. If this privacy fence was installed, I mean
I'm sure they would wait, but you would have this dead end area.
How long of a timetable would it take to have the developer's
required sidewalk litigated, for want of a better term. Can we
resolve all of these before we resolve this, or are we putting an
undue burden because it will take another six months to resolve?
Mr. Taormina: Tonight's hearing is posing a lot of unanswered questions. I think
Council would probably want to address this with the developer
at the time this petition to vacate is before them. Regardless of
October 30, 2018
28823
your action tonight, unless you table it, whether you approve it or
deny it, it's merely a recommendation to City Council. When this
goes before City Council and their faced with the same questions,
I think they'll want to hear from the developer to find out what their
intention would be relative to the use of that common area, how
it would be improved, would the fence run along the west property
line of the condominium association, what is the Engineering
Department expecting in terms of easements and so how does
that look in the end? We know pretty much what it's going to look
like for the Noltes and Mr. Jones. They'll close that area off, but
the balance of it is something that we're going to have to
determine, and I think Council will probably want to dovetail both
of these items together. We would ask the developer to join in on
that question. Whether or not they have to go back through the
Planning process, I don't know. That's something we have to
determine.
Mr. Long: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Any other questions for the doctor, while she's up here? Thank
you for coming.
Dr. Eskander: I just wanted to say one more thing. Currently, Infinity Concepts
is the association for us right now, but that is going to be changing
relatively soon.
Mr. Wilshaw: The developer is still in control.
Dr. Eskander: Yes. Infinity Concepts.
Mr. Bongero: I have one question. Do you know in your bylaws if they allow
privacy fences?
Dr. Eskander: Yes. It was presented to me in the bylaws the first day before I
signed for the house.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Any other folks wishing to speak for or against?
Ms. Nolte: I was going to say that what she had said about the tunnel effect
and causing issues. I'm sure my neighbor, Mark, could attest
because we walked through that sidewalk last summer and I
picked up six or eight liquor bottles because people do go in there
and do inappropriate things. One of the bottles was full. It does
cause a problem. It didn't when the school was there, but now
that it goes to nothing, it does cause a problem.
October 30, 2018
28824
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Sir, you have one more comment you want to make'?
Feel free.
Mr. Parikh: I have one more issue. I just asked the builder to remove some
dirt, which was in the back of my house. He said it's a common
property. We did not worry about it. Let it be as it is. I have a
picture of that. I can show you that.
Mr. Wilshaw: So this is on that common property?
Mr. Parikh: Yes.
Lori Julien, 9371 Liberty Court, Livonia, Michigan. I have on my cell phone the
approval from Infinity Homes about my fence and they approved
my privacy fence to go to the chain link fence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Everything you say goes into our record.
Unidentified speaker: I've only gone on Knolson once, but the time my wife and I
walked down there, there was a sign at the Knolson end of the
sidewalk saying the sidewalk was closed, so the City pretty much
already closed it.
Mr. Wilshaw: We're aware of that. Thank you.
Shauqi Mughnnen, 9357 Knolson, Livonia, Michigan. I've been a resident since
'68. I've been in the house for 50 years. I love where I am. We
use the walk for many times with my kids and grandkids, but right
now, it don't look like there is a use for it. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you for comment. Thank you for living here so long. It's
wonderful.
Dr. Eskander: One thing you guys needs to know about, the side of my house,
9387, I abut the retention area. It's a pretty steep slope and I was
actually shocked you guys approved the grade of my house. I got
a ton of gravel that I put on there, just so I wouldn't fall because I
mean it's like a mud slide. If you guys were to have a sidewalk
placed on the side of my house there, it's going to be an
enormous expense. Just in case you guys considered that idea.
It's a horrible slope. It goes five feet down within three feet.
Mr. Wilshaw: We appreciate that comment. The cost of the sidewalk, if it was
to be put in, would be borne by the developer and by the
association, but needless to say, the safety issue that you're
raising . . .
October 30, 2018
28825
Dr. Eskander: I do not think that sidewalk is going to stay stable. I'm very sure
that it's going to end up settling at different angles and then you
know people tripping and children.
Mr. Wilshaw: That's a good point. Thank you.
Mr. Long: Snow wouldn't stick to it, though.
Mr. Wilshaw: Of course not. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to
speak for or against this item? If not, is there anything else the
Noltes would like to add since you're the petitioner? Okay. With
that, I will close the public hearing and ask for a motion.
On a motion by Long, seconded by McCue, and adopted, it was
#10-71-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on October 30, 2018, on
Petition 2018-09-03-01 submitted by Jeffery and Tracy Nolte,
pursuant to Council Resolution #334-18 and Section 12.08 of the
Livonia Code of Ordinances of the City of Livonia, as amended,
to determine whether or not to vacate the existing ten (10) foot
wide public sidewalk that runs along the north side of Lot 94 of
Arbor Estates Subdivision (9386 Knolson), located on the east
side of Knolson Avenue between Northfield Avenue and Ann
Arbor Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 31, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2018-09-03-01 be approved for the following reasons,
subject to a full-width maintenance easement for public utilities
as recommended by the City's Engineering Division:
1. That the subject right-of-way is no longer needed for public
walkway purposes;
2. That the vacated right-of-way will be more advantageously
utilized by the abutting property owner(s);
3. That no public utility company has objected to the proposed
vacating request; and
4. That the Planning Commission finds that a suitable
alternative exists for persons residing in the Arbor Estates
Subdivision to access the new public park at the corner of
Hix and Ann Arbor Roads.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 12.08.030 of
the Livonia Code of Ordinance, as amended.
October 30, 2018
28826
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Long, McCue, Smiley, Bongero, Ventura, Wilshaw
NAYS: Caramagno
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
recommendation,
ITEM #3 PETITION 2018-08-02-18 COMFORT CARE
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2018-
08-02-18 submitted by Comfort Care Senior Living requesting
waiver use approval pursuant to Section 9.03(g) of the City of
Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with
a proposal to construct and operate a senior assisted living facility
at 34020 Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4
of Section 28.
Mr. Wilshaw: This item was tabled at a previous meeting. Is there a motion to
remove it from the table?
On a motion by Long, seconded by McCue, and unanimously adopted, it was
#10-72-2018 RESOLVED, that in connection with Petition 2018-08-02-18
submitted by Comfort Care Senior Living requesting waiver use
approval pursuant to Section 9.03(g) of the City of Livonia Zoning
Ordinance #543, as amended, in connection with a proposal to
construct and operate a senior assisted living facility at 34020
Plymouth Road, located on the north side of Plymouth Road
between Farmington and Stark Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 28, which property is zoned RUF, C-1 and C-2 and is in
the process of being rezoned to OS, the Planning Commission
does hereby remove this item from the table.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
Mr. Taormina: This item was originally tabled back in September to allow the
petitioner time to meet with City staff, including the Fire Marshal,
to talk about some of the concerns that they pointed out relative
to access around the building. We received a new plan on
October 30, 2018
28827
October 22 that shows a reconfigured building that results in
greater side and rear yard setbacks. This allows for the inclusion
of a 16-foot wide fire access drive fully around the proposed
building. The new floor plan shows that there would be a total of
69 units. This includes 28 studio units, 10 memory care units and
31 one-bedroom units. There are a total of 45 parking spaces
shown on the latest plan. This is a surplus of six spaces over what
the ordinance requires. The stormwater detention basin has been
replaced with an underground detention system that is shown in
the same general location as where the basin was originally
proposed. In addition, we have new information on a sign that
would be placed along the frontage. You received this evening
another plan. I'm going to let the petitioner describe the changes
that appear on this latest plan. It does not change the location of
the building nor the access drive nor necessarily the number of
parking spaces. What it does is address some of the issues that
were raised at the last study meeting relative to landscaping and
screening along the west side of the property. With that, Mr.
Chair, why don't we let Mr. Boehm describe the latest plan.
Mr. Wilshaw: That sounds good. And there is no correspondence to be
updated?
Mr. Taormina: No. There is no new correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw: Anyquestions for our PlanningDirector? The petitioner is here.
We'll let you fill us in on these new plans.
Doug Boehm, Comfort Care Senior Living, 4180 Tittabawassee, Saginaw,
Michigan 48604. I'd just like to appreciate Mr. Taormina and the
Commission for allowing us to get back on the agenda. I know we
had some concerns regarding the fire access road about two
months back now, and we were able to refigure the building with
the 15-foot access road around the building/ Actually, we were
able to pick up two more units, which is greatly needed in the City
of Livonia. I know I've said this before, there is a great need of
senior housing in the City and it's surrounding areas.
Approximately 890 residents are in need of senior housing,
whether they're at home and they're getting care through their
children or their grandchildren or have homecare services that
may not be there during all hours. We are able to provide senior
housing, 24/7 at this time. I'd like to introduce Mr. Rybicki with
MLR Engineering. He is our engineer on the project, and he was
able to make some changes that were recommended during last
week's study meeting. I'll allow him to present his changes.
October 30, 2018
28828
Michael Rybicki, P.E., MLR Engineering, 134 S. Main Street, Suite 1, Freeland,
Michigan 48623. Mr. Chairman, if I could, just to explain the
updated landscape plan that's on your screen. This is a result of
comments that came out of the study committee meeting that got
back to me. We added additional landscaping with trees and
shrubs along the east property line abutting the parking lot. We
continued the five-foot masonry wall on the west side for the
entire length of the westerly property for that screening need. We
changed the detention area to an underground detention area
which created a lot of grass space with not a lot of amenities
because we're trying to abide by the County's regulations on what
goes on top or gets planted near the detention area. So the
landscape plan has been updated with a garden scheme with
some brick pavers and some prep area for the residents to either
do some flowering or some vegetable gardening during their time
there.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Rybicki. Is there any questions for our petitioner'?
Ms. Smiley: Just to confirm, you have a masonry wall that goes . . .
Mr. Boehm: It starts in the northeast corner and wraps around all the way to
the southwest corner.
Ms. Smiley: So all these people have a lovely view of the driveway and the
masonry wall. Right'?
Mr. Boehm: Correct.
Ms. Smiley: And you managed to put in five more beds'?
Mr. Boehm: Two more beds. We were at 67.
Ms. Smiley: I thought you were at 64 and you went to 69.
Mr. Boehm: I think our original plan when we first submitted was at 64. We
were able to pick up three last time and then two more this time.
Ms. Smiley: On these outside units, these are single rooms or is that a ward'?
Mr. Boehm: Rooms. The State of Michigan requires all rooms to have an
outside view.
Ms. Smiley: So they have an outside view of the driveway and the masonry
wall?
Mr. Boehm: Correct.
October 30, 2018
28829
Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you.
Ms. McCue: So just to clarify. You added some trees.
Mr. Boehm: That would separate the OHM parking lot . . .
Ms. McCue: On the east side.
Mr. Boehm: Correct.
Ms. McCue: But there's still residential houses behind to the north. Correct?
Mr. Boehm: Correct.
Ms. McCue: So I guess my question is, where else did you add any greenery
or any kind of landscaping'? I know it's a challenge right now with
what you have going there with the road that goes around.
Mr. Rybicki: From the landscaping plan that was submitted on the 22nd of
October, there was landscaping added. The easterly property line
that abuts the OHM parking lot, there is additional shrubbery
added through some islands located in the parking lot. Again, the
screening wall was asked to be continued down the west property
line and we did that as well, and added the amenity over the
detention area upfront.
Mr. Boehm: I have a question for Ms. Smiley. It doesn't seem like you're too
happy with the masonry wall.
Ms. Smiley: I can't imagine living there.
Mr. Boehm: Because from our end, we didn't want it either but I know that was
requested through the city to put a masonry wall between the
property lines to separate the residential housing and our
property. Would you be opposed to the tree line continuing
through? I know we have to get another variance. What are your
thoughts about that? From our side, if I was a resident, I wouldn't
want to look at a masonry wall either.
Ms. Smiley: It feels like a prison.
Mr. Boehm: And the fire access road that was required by the Fire Marshal.
We didn't want that either, but .. . .
Ms. Smiley: I thought we talked about it not having to go all the way around
for the driveway.
October 30, 2018
28830
Mr. Wilshaw: There was some discussion at the study meeting to determine if
it needed to go completely around the building or not. Mr.
Taormina, you haven't heard anything else from the Fire
Marshal?
Mr. Taormina: No. We have not received a response back from the Fire Marshal
on this. I will tell you that his concern as originally noted was that
access would have to be provided to within 150 feet of all points
of the building. The complication here is while you could
conceivably have a driveway along the east side of the building
and one along the west side and forego the driveway along the
back of the building, what that fails to do is provide an adequate
turnaround. So they did that by looping the road that would
effectively operate as a one-way drive for any emergency
vehicles that had to access that area.
Mr. Wilshaw: That makes sense. It's hard enough when you watch the large
dump trucks and the garbage trucks try to back up. The last thing
you want to see is a firetruck trying to back up down the road.
Mr. Ventura: Mr. Chairman, at the study meeting there was some conversation
about perhaps access for the firetrucks could be gained through
the OHM property. So I approached them to see if they were at
all interested in that, and they are not. They would actively
oppose that.
Mr. Wilshaw: Understood. Thank you for checking.
Mr. Boehm: So if you don't mind, I'd like to kind of get a feel from the members
about the masonry wall on the north and the west ends.
Mr. Wilshaw: My understanding is masonry walls are typically required when
an office or commercial zoning is abutting a residential zoning.
That's a standard requirement we have. That wall can be waived
in lieu of greenery by the City Council, I believe. Is that correct,
Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: That is correct, and there are standards relative to the use of a
greenbelt in lieu of a masonry protective wall. It has to be at least
10 feet in width and has to be planted with sufficient material so
as to act as an adequate screen between those uses.
Mr. Wilshaw: All right. So that's really not in our purview at the Planning
Commission level to make that determination, other than if we
think that's acceptable, to do our best to make sure the plan
indicates those elements.
October 30, 2018
28831
Mr. Taormina: Correct.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Hopefully that answers your question, Mr. Boehm.
Mr. Boehm: Yes. Definitely.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there any other questions for our petitioner?
Mr. Caramagno: Sir, one of the comments we've been making pretty commonly is
that the six properties that back up to you at the north, these don't
have any treed coverage and there's nothing there for the people
who live here to look at either way. But that's been a big piece of
the problem. I realize the road going around is an issue. Is there
not a way to push this building further to the south to have a
greenbelt on your side of the wall and have some nice trees back
there?
Mr. Boehm: Which way?
Mr. Caramagno: To the north. Move the building to the south and have more room
to the north, and probably it requires reducing rooms. I realize
that probably impacts your proforma here.
Mr. Boehm: So there's the existing retention pond that's in the parking lot and
we wouldn't be able to build on top of that.
Mr. Caramagno: I'm not saying go way down there. I'm saying there seems like
there's something that can be done here, to me. It's a large piece
of property. It doesn't seem unrealistic what you want to do. I just
think you need to be more neighborly with what you're trying to
do, and a brick wall with no greenery is kind a hold back for me.
Mr. Boehm: I agree.
Mr. Rybicki: Probably two-thirds of the north property line, sir, has an existing
block wall now that's been there for quite some time.
Mr. Caramagno: Surrounded by trees'?
Mr. Rybicki: That's correct.
Mr. Long: Frankly, there's trees north and west of the wall. Am I
understanding that correctly?
Mr. Boehm: Yes.
October 30, 2018
28832
Mr. Long: So those will remain?
Mr. Bongero: Have you guys addressed the lighting in the back and how it's
going to be illuminated?
Mr. Boehm: We don't have plans to put any lighting besides inside the
residents' rooms in the back.
Mr. Bongero: There's nothing in the street or out in the corners of the
development?
Mr. Boehm: Just in the parking lot. Maybe some flood lights but that's about
it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is that it, Mr. Bongero?
Mr. Bongero: I guess I side with Mr. Caramagno. It just seems like pulling it
back a little bit would just kind of do it justice with all the people
abutting up to it. I guess I'm thinking the same thing. It's just
wham. It's just going to come right up to their lot line and there's
just nothing to look at. If it was me, I would not care for it one bit.
There seems like there should be some type of a proposal to put
in place and address that concern, because I think it's ongoing.
We all kind of feel the same way. It is feasible for you to pull it
back 20 feet?
Mr. Boehm: I don't think so.
Mr. Ventura: If I may, Mr. Chair. Part of the conversation with OHM revealed
that there's a significant sewer line running east and west at the
end of the access road and running over the southerly portion of
the site, and there's a 10-foot sewer in the ground there and a
significant easement. He's probably constrained from pulling that
building much further south.
Mr. Boehm: Yes. You can see the dash line that goes through. And I think
there's a 30-foot easement in total for that pipeline.
Mr. Ventura: So accessing that pipeline would take precedence over moving
that building.
Mr. Wilshaw: That makes sense.
Mr. Ventura: To the petitioner, is if I may, Mr. Chair. You can hear what the
resistance is here. We don't like what's happening with the
residents and the vegetation that exists on the site and what's
going to happen to the quality of the environment there, and it's
October 30, 2018
28833
primarily because you're covering so much land with the building.
At every study session that I've been to where this has been on
the agenda, we've asked the question, why don't you building a
two-story building, reduce the footprint, create some space.
When the City Council agrees to eliminate these walls, they
typically want a substantial planted berm that's elevated so that
you get kind of a wall made out of dirt and then you get vegetation
on top of it. That all takes space that you don't have on this site
plan. You would get that space if you went to a two-story building.
That's been a constant feature here. I can tell you that I'm not
going to vote for this site plan the way it. It is just too much
building and too little dirt and it has too big an effect on the quality
of life.
Mr. Boehm: We've looked at it. It would increase costs $2 million plus in terms
of development. It wouldn't make this project feasible, plus that's
not really the product that we pitched to our . . .
Mr. Ventura: I can't address your business plan.
Mr. Boehm: But if you think about it, if you're memory care or you have some
sort of memory issues and you're upstairs, you seem like you're
locked and then you deal with stairs and elevators. That's just not
really the pitch I would make to our residents. I mean we have
eight buildings right now. None of them are two-story.
Mr. Ventura: I understand and appreciate what you're telling me. I get it and
perhaps this is not the site for it.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Ventura. Are there any other questions,
comments for our petitioner?
Mr. Rybicki: Mr. Chairman, can I get a clarification on landscaping along that
north property line? Is it on the Comfort Care side of the masonry
wall or is it on the neighbors' side that we're trying to provide more
plantings, more trees?
Mr. Wilshaw: We're discussing the site which would be on your property. So
your side of the wall. Any other comments? There's no one else
in the audience. With that, a motion would be in order.
On a motion by McCue, seconded by Ventura, and unanimously adopted, it was
#10-73-2018 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held
by the City Planning Commission on October 30, 2018, on
Petition 2018-08-02-18 submitted by Comfort Care Senior Living
requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 9.03(g) of the
October 30, 2018
28834
City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, in
connection with a proposal to construct and operate a senior
assisted living facility at 34020 Plymouth Road, located on the
north side of Plymouth Road between Farmington and Stark
Roads in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 28, which property is zoned
RUF, C-1 and C-2 and is in the process of being rezoned to OS,
the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 2018-08-02-18 be denied for the following
reasons:
1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the
proposed use complies with all the special and general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Sections 18.58 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the scale and intensity of the proposed development
would have a substantial negative impact to the natural
wooded character of the land, which in turn would adversely
affect the peace and tranquility of the neighboring residential
properties;
3. That the proposed use and its location, intensity, site layout
and periods of operation are such that it is incompatible to
and not in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area,
particularly with respect to the residential neighborhood to
the north; and
4. That the proposed use is contrary to the goals and
objectives of the Zoning Ordinance which, among other
things, are intended to insure suitability and appropriateness
of uses.
Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chair, if the maker of the motion would consider omitting Item
#3 as the plan presented this evening does address the issue of
the screen wall on the west property line.
Ms. McCue: Yes, they put it all in there. That's fine.
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is denied. As this is a waiver use
request, the petitioner will have 10 days in which to appeal the
decision in writing to the City Council.
October 30, 2018
28835
ITEM #5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,130TH Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,130th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting
held on October 2, 2018.
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Long, and unanimously adopted, it was
#10-74-2018 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,130th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on October 2,
2018, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Bongero, Long, Smiley, Wilshaw
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: Caramagno, McCue, Ventura
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,131st Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Mr. Caramagno, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of
the Minutes of the 1,131st Public Hearings and Regular Meeting
held on October 16, 2018.
On a motion by Ventura, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#10-75-2018 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,131st Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on October
16, 2018, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Ventura, Smiley, McCue, Caramagno, Wilshaw
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: Bongero, Long
Mr. Wilshaw, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
October 30, 2018
28836
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,132nd Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on October 30, 2018, was adjourned at 8:00
p.m.
CITY PLA NG COMMISSION
Sam Car. agno, Secretary
ATTEST:
Ian ilshaw, airman
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