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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA MINUTES 2016-08-30ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF LIVONIA MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD AUGUST 30, 2016 A Special Meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of Livonia was held in the Gallery of the Livonia City Hall on Tuesday, August 30, 2016. MEMBERS PRESENT: Matthew Henzi, Chairman James M. Baringhaus, Secretary Craig Pastor Leo Neville Gregory G. Coppola Benjamin A. Schepis Timothy J. Klisz MEMBERS ABSENT: None OTHERS PRESENT: Mike Fisher, City Attorney Steve Banko, City Inspector Beth Niemczewski, CER -7224 The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. Chairman Henzi explained the Rules of Procedure to those interested parties. Each petitioner must give their name and address and declare hardship for appeal. Appeals of the Zoning Board's decisions are made to the Wayne County Circuit Court. The Chairman advised the audience that appeals can be filed within 21 days of the date tonight's minutes are approved. The decision of the Zoning Board shall become final within five (5) calendar days following the hearing and the applicant shall be mailed a copy of the decision. There are four decisions the Board can make: to deny, to grant, to grant as modified by the Board, or to table for further information. Each petitioner may ask to be heard by a full seven (7) member Board. Seven (7) members were present this evening. The Chairman asked if anyone wished to be heard by a full Board and no one wished to do so. The Secretary then read the Agenda and Legal Notice to each appeal, and each petitioner indicated their presence. Appeals came up for hearing after due legal notice was given to all interested parties within 300 feet, petitioners and City Departments. There were 13 people present in the audience. (7:00) City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 1 of 54 August 30, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-03-22: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by 6 Mile & Middlebelt Properties, LLC, 812 S. Main St., Ste. 200, Royal Oak, MI 48067, on behalf of Lessee, Wireless Vision (T Mobile), 40700 Woodward, Ste. 250, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, seeking to replace an existing wall sign on the east and north elevations, resulting in excess total area and the east elevation wall sign is also excess in area. East Elevation Sign Area: Allowed: 11.5 sq. ft. Proposed: 18.0 sq. ft. Excess: 6.5 sq. ft. Total Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 34.5 sq. ft. Proposed: 36.0 sq. ft. Excess: 1.5 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Six Mile Road (29245), between Middlebelt and Savoie, Lot. No. 050-99-0001-001, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(b),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Hearing none, will the Petitioner please come to the table. Good evening. Denha: Good evening, everybody. My name is Kevin Denha. I'm the owner of the T - Mobile store located on Six Mile and Middlebelt. My address is 40700 Woodward Avenue, Suite 250, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. I'm here with Paul Ferguson from Huron Signs, who's my sign vendor, and good evening. Henzi: Thanks. Go ahead and tell us about the T -Mobile signs you proposed. Denha: So the -- the elevation we're looking to increase is, obviously, on Middlebelt Road. And we've been there for probably close to about 10 years now, and previously the signage used to indicate T -Mobile Limited Partner. So when we first in business. Corporate changed that where the Limited is no longer in play anymore. So our sign is - - you know it's really small compared to the Six Mile side. As you guys are aware, my address is a Six Mile address. And we're still getting some feedback that -- you know -- that the sign is really difficult to see. And what we initially proposed was approximately 21 square feet when we went to our initial study session with Planning originally. Probably went three -- four months ago. And based on the feedback of what we got, we scaled it City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 2 of 54 August 30, 2016 back to what you guys see today. And basically, in a nutshell, as people always see the Six Mile sign, but it's very tough to see the Middlebelt sign, which obviously there's a lot of traffic there. As an ancillary note -- you know -- I remember when we were talking to the Planner -- you know -- if we had a Middlebelt address, I think we'd be in good shape with a bigger signage based on the way that building was built. As you guys are aware there's LA Insurance, which would be on the south portion of that property, which has their signage on that wall. So I -- I think, like anything else, we want to be visible. Even though we have some good legacy value there. My management team still gets some feedback that -- you know -- the sign is difficult to see. So we compromised with Planning based on their feedback, which I'm very good with to be what you see today at 18 square feet. And, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't we going to change the lettering -- oh we changed the lettering to white background. Ferguson: White background. Denha: So it used to be kind of a mixed up blend, but with the brick line -- I also own the store on 96 and Middlebelt. The new one in front of Dick's, and what we found out with that brick line and the coloring, we went to all white background, which helped -- if we increase that size to 18 square feet, I think it'd help out a lot keeping all white background. I do not own the center. I'm strictly a tenant of the center. Any questions. Henzi: Sure. Mr. Denha, so -- to make sure I understand this right. You want the Middlebelt sign to mirror the Six Mile sign? Denha: What's the square footage on the Six Mile? Ferguson: Square footage on the Six Mile side -- because it's one to one ratio and it has 23 feet of frontage, there's 23 square feet. If I'm not mistaken, was it 18.5 square feet for the side. Denha: -- 18.5, forgive me. Ferguson: There's 43 feet of side frontage, but obviously it's not considered frontage because there isn't a door there. So the compromise that came back from the Planning Commission was 18.5 when we proposed 21. Henzi: But same lettering? Same white background? Denha: Everything. Ferguson: Yes, sir. Denha: Exactly a mirror from an aesthetic point of view. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 3 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Thank you. Any questions for the Petitioner? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against this project? If so, come on up to the table. Seeing no one coming forward, can you read the letters? Baringhaus: Yes. We have one letter -- actually two letters saying the original. Hani Kassab, 812 South Main Street, Suite 200, Royal Oak, Michigan, 48067, (letter read). And then the second letter is just an approval. Henzi: Gentlemen, anything you want to say in closing? Denha: I -- I -- no. I think I laid it out pretty good. I'm here for any questions, and I appreciate you guys considering it. Henzi: Thanks. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Neville. Neville: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really didn't have a hard time finding your business. However, given the fact that the request is only 1.5 square feet over the total wall sign area. And in light of the fact that I do think, however though, the white letters are much better visibility with the respect to finding your business as opposed to the red T. So in light of the fact you apparently have the approval on that and no objection to it, then I would be in favor of the requested variance. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I would also support this as presented. I think it's a small -- it's a small excess. I agree that the white lettering will look better than -- than the current two shaded letter, and it will also be more visible. I also think that you've kind of gone through the process with some other City departments to kind of come to a compromise on the size, and I think that makes sense. So I will support it. Henzi: Mr. Pastor Pastor: I'll also be in support. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree. I think the change is a very positive one, and increases the visibility, the white background, the new design. Definitely enhances the building. I'll support. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I'm in support subject to Planning Commission conditions. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 4 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I agree. There's not much else to add. I guess it's also consistent with the LA Insurance sign, which happens to be bigger too. So I would be in support as well. Henzi: I, too, will support it for all the reasons. Aesthetically I think it's going to look more natural being a near mirror image, to both LA Insurance and the existing T -Mobile. So floor's open for motion. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Upon Motion by Schepis and supported by Pastor, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-03-22: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by 6 Mile & Middlebelt Properties, LLC, 812 S. Main St., Ste. 200, Royal Oak, MI 48067, on behalf of Lessee, Wireless Vision (T Mobile), 40700 Woodward, Ste. 250, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, seeking to replace an existing wall sign on the east and north elevations, resulting in excess total area and the east elevation wall sign is also excess in area. East Elevation Sign Area: Allowed: 11.5 sq. ft. Proposed: 18.0 sq. ft. Excess: 6.5 sq. ft. Total Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 34.5 sq. ft. Proposed: 36.0 sq. ft. Excess: 1.5 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Six Mile Road (29245), between Middlebelt and Savoie, Lot. No. 050-99-0001-001, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(b),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because this change would make it consistent with the other tenants in this building. Also, if this were a frontage side, he would be entitled to this without a variance. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of the lack of visibility and inconsistency amongst their signs. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 5 of 54 August 30, 2016 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance due to the support of the neighbor, and the variance is fairly minor. 4. The Board received one letter of approval and zero objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "General Commercial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That it be constructed as presented. 2. That the Petitioner comply with any requirements placed on it by the Planning Commission or City Council. AYES: Schepis, Pastor, Henzi, Baringhaus, Coppola, Klisz, Neville NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: Variance is granted. You've got to build it as presented, and then we incorporated the City Council and Planning Commission requirements. Denha: Thank you. Ferguson: Thank you very much. APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-48 (Rescheduled from Au_gust 16, 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Ford Road Ventures, 40700 Woodward, Ste. 250, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, seeking to erect two identical ground City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 6 of 54 August 30, 2016 signs, one on each of two major thoroughfares, resulting in excess sign area, sign height and width. Sign Area: Allowed: 80 sq. ft. ( 40 sq. ft. each sign) Proposed: 212 sq. ft. (106 sq. ft. each sign) Excess: 132 sq. ft. ( 66 sq. ft. each sign) Sign Height: Sign Width: Allowed: 8 feet Allowed: 10.0 feet Proposed: 15 feet Proposed: 11.5 feet Excess: 7 feet Excess: 1.5 feet The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt (19043), between Seven Mile and Clarita, Lot. No. 041-99-0004-000, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b),1, "Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 District." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, other than the center looks really, really good. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko. Hearing none. Gentlemen, can you give us your names and address one more time? Denha: Sure. Kevin Denha. I'm the managing partner of Ford Road Ventures, LLC. Owner of the shopping center, 40700 Woodward Avenue, Suite 250, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, 48034. Paul Ferguson from Huron Signs, my sign vendor. Ferguson: 663 Wellman, Ypsilanti, Michigan, 48198. Henzi: Go ahead. Denha: So thank you, Mr. Banko, for your comments on that. Obviously, I am the owner of the shopping center at Seven and Middlebelt. My group and I purchased it about a year and a half ago. Fast forward to today, you see the remodel has been done after some excruciating peeling back of the onion there. I hope you guys like what you see now. Currently, the only eye sore, I'll call it, are the current signs on that property. They probably date -- obviously date back to the original construction of that building, or close to it. Currently the center is about 56,000 square feet with about 15,000 feet vacant. Obviously, the proposed sign -- we're not going to keep that white elephant -- both of City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 7 of 54 August 30, 2016 them up there. We want to make a sign -- A -- that matches aesthetically to the center, but more importantly to this Board, is I need signage for the vacancy that I have. And obviously the current footprint of the sign or anything we do to it, as you guys know, we cannot do anything to it. So as were sourcing tenants for the center -- and it's been pretty brisk after the -- the scaffolding and everything came down. Everybody needs signage. So -- you know -- we built that center up from a height piece, from a tower element, to everything to A to Z, and really everything you see in there is new, from it exteriorly. Interiorly will be the same after I get tenants in there. But the signage is the last component that we need to really put that center on the map and to get that thing full. As you see we're sizing down the sign, albeit, it's still a little bit bigger -- bigger than what the Zoning calls for. But -- you know -- the -- the -- and this is what I brought to Planning as also with City Council. The depths of those bays are big. So as such -- you know -- I got to be careful what I'm giving people bowling alleys, for lack of a better word. So you got 20 feet of frontage. Most tenants are going a hundred feet deep. So I'm kind of squeezing the rents down so people can afford occupancy costs, but with that -- you know -- people want some nice fully branded -- full panel signage. No those small ones like you would see at Six and Middlebelt where I'm a tenant. So it's -- the signage here, in my opinion, is -- is -- you know -- A -- was remodeling the center -- you know. Right below that is the signage. To really get tenants in there and stay in there -- because it's visible but the signage there -- the way we're going to have it and we're going to keep it exactly in the same spot where those current foundations are, are -- are going to be a real asset, especially aesthetically. I'm not sparing any expense on this sign. If I built a brand new center and remodeled, I'm going to put a new sign up, as you guys have saw. So tenancy is hinging, not in totality -- you know -- I'm not going to -- I'm not going to create smoke and mirrors, but as a -- I'm a retailer and a landlord. This signage here will help me fill this center up. For lack of -- about cutting to the chase. Henzi: Just so I'm clear. Once again, you've got large pylon signs. So those come down, and you're going to replace them in the exact same spot with the proposed monument signs? Denha: Correct. Exact same spot. We're going to redo the foundations, correct? Ferguson: Oh yeah. Denha: They're not going anywhere else. They're going exactly where that footprint is. Henzi: Then you've got a rendering of sort of a stone base. Is that the same color and - - and everything? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 8 of 54 August 30, 2016 Denha: So yeah. I kind of patterned the tenancy mix -- forgive me, I pulled it from another shopping center on the east side. So I just wanted to give you flavor for the paneling, but yes, the stone's going to match the existing stone that's on the facade now. I have a thin stone and a thick stone. So that's going to match. The architect's going to design, and obviously illuminate it. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Explain to my why you need so much extra signage compared to whatever the sign ordinance is. Because I know once you get a tenant in there, they're going to want a sign on the building as well. So -- Denha: I mean -- Mr. Pastor -- I mean -- everybody's going to get signage above their space. You know -- that's a given. Pastor: Exactly. Denha: Pylon signage now is very critical for any tenant, and the bigger it is the better. But you want to do within reason and compatibility with the city. You know -- you think people will see it, but I've been in retail for almost 40 years, you'd be surprised if they don't know when they're there. And -- and signage -- and listen, I know the center's set off the road -- I mean -- I'm a big boy. I knew what I was getting. However, the way that's setback and the way traffic is, that pylon sign will their first vision. It will be lower obviously than it is today, and it's critical. I mean -- if I'm going to come to a tenant, I'm going to say hey, come onto my center, but I have no pylon sign for you, and it's really small. It's -- it doesn't work. I mean -- you see signs that are really small as you're driving, as a Board, and you just -- you don't see it. You want to have some impact. And honestly, if you're giving somebody 20x100 -foot space, which is 2000 feet, and you give them a little sign it - it -- it just -- it -- it hurts a deal. Pastor: It's not only that sign. It's the sign above their store frontage as well. Denha: Correct, but that's set back from the road. It's set back from the road. Pastor: And that's -- and that's the argument they're going to use when they want bigger signs on the building too. Denha: No because that's going to be per City code. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 9 of 54 August 30, 2016 Pastor: No -- because they always ask for bigger -- just like you just asked for on your last case for a bigger sign. Denha: Yeah, but here's the thing, you have lease lines. So I'll never let anybody get pastd their lease line. They got 20 feet of frontage. They're not going to go passed that. They can't. I won't allow it. I don't allow it as a landlord. You have you lease line -- 20 feet -- you're going to get you signage. You know -- it just -- if you're driving down those roads, and they're busy roads -- that's obviously why I bought the center, and obviously it was a value -- you know -- it was -- it was dilapidated. Any tenant -- you know -- let's say I give a tenant 40x100, that's 4000 feet, you think he's going to want a small space. He's going to want something at least close in -- in -- close to size on a pylon. Now whatever that may be, but it's going to be a lot bigger than a small little panel thing. Because the depths of that center are going to dictate a little bigger sign. I'm not leaning on that, but as -- as -- as I said, it will help tenants stay there. Visibility on signage is key. People can't get away with one sign on their building. Not with the way that center's set back. Itjust --it won't. Six and Middlebelt is a perfect example of being close to the road, and I got a little sign like that. I'm okay with that. I've got double signage on there. It's right at the light. Here you're a hundred and twenty -- twenty-five feet off the road. Pastor: That's going to be their argument when they want a bigger sign on the building. Denha: Okay, but I can't forecast the future. What I'm telling you is, as a landlord -- and no landlord would do this -- will let them go past a lease line. Especially the way that facade is. You're not going to make it. If you look at my signage now, everybody's uniform, except for a tower limit. I don't allow it any differently. Any landlord who does is not a sophisticated landlord. I just think as retail, guys, you need signage. I've got millions of dollars in this center. I'm going to get rid of that white elephant, and -- and I know we're non -conforming, but we're coming down from 126 feet to 95. 1 mean -- I'm sorry 126 what Ferguson: Square feet. Denha: -- square feet -- excuse me. Forgive me. We're lowering the sign, what, in half, 32.5 feet down to 15. These panels are going to be key. Not just to keep tenants, but to -- to -- not to get tenants, but to get them. First word out of everybody's mouth on these LOI's that I'm fielding, what's the pylon sign going to look like? You may or may not believe that, but believe me, when I'm a --I'm a tenant looking at space, I'm looking -- I'm looking at pylon signage. Ferguson: Just to touch on that point just a little bit. I mean -- you can see the plot plan with the overhead. The distance from where the roads are to the frontage of the building. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 10 of 54 August 30, 2016 So if -- if I'm not mistaken, each suite up to 20 feet of frontage, they're only going to get a 20 -square -foot sign. So there's only so much space you're going to be able to utilize if you use a wall sign anyways. And then the traffic report -- I mean -- just on any given day, you're looking at 29,000 vehicles at traverse Middlebelt and another 29,000 traverse Denha: Let me give you a real life example. So I own the T -Mobile store on 96 and Middlebelt. No pylon sign there. I sit right in front of the Dick's. I'm going to tell you something. That store -- it's twice as busy there. That store has been a pain ramping up the last year and a half. I'm not saying it's all that, but pylon would have been great there. I do that deal. I probably wouldn't do it again without a pylon. So and that's a lousy three tenant building -- or four tenant. Excuse me. So I mean -- you know -- I think -- I think it will be crucial here, and I've tried to come up with a sign that is going to match the center and it's going to be fantastic. Mr. Pastor, I can't forecast for what tenants are going to do, but me personally, and I'll speak for me alone, I would never let a tenant get a sign past their lease line and that's going to look out of whack compared to the rest of the center. Anybody who does that, doesn't know how to manage their property. Henzi: Any other questions? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Well you mentioned that the setbacks on the property are about a 100 to 125 -- Denha: I don't have the exact number, sir, but it's close. Baringhaus: -- I understand. The actual signs that we're discussing are anywhere from 6 to 11 feet from the street. Wouldn't an 8 -foot sign be sufficient given the proximity the Seven Mile and Middlebelt? Denha: I think eight's too low. I do. I mean -- we've got a 56,000 square foot shopping center, and additionally, one other thing I want to add is Pet Supplies Plus is about 8000 - foot footprint, Family Dollar's 10,000, Planet Fitness is 15. Those people leave and I got to slice the space up, I'm going to need paneling and signage. And I'm not saying anybody's leaving, but I look to look on the horizon. So those are big footprints right now in today's market. So somebody leaves, I go to cover up that space -- I need signage for them. So I think to piggy back you, I think eight feet's too small, and it would shrink my paneling. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 11 of 54 August 30, 2016 Baringhaus: The way the signs designed is it looks -- you'll be putting tenant's names into the panels. Denha: Correct. Baringhaus: Wouldn't that sign also work against you as tenants leave. You'd have a blank space in that sign. How would you address that? Denha: A lot of times I keep it. Lot of times I keep it. I keep it until they vacate, and I put For Lease sign right on it. It's vinyl. I put it right on the panel. I do that at every one of my properties. Either my number if I'm listing, or my broker. Baringhaus: How many tenants are currently in the complex? Denha: Three. Baringhaus: Three. Denha: Pet -- Pet Supplies Plus on the north end cap. Family Dollar right next to it. Planet Fitness just to the south of them. Baringhaus: And then how many potential tenants could the facility hold? Denha: You know -- I'm 15,000 feet. So I'm kind of fielding what I'm -- I'm going to field -- I'll fielding offers now. I have nothing signed, but I'm fit them in. I'll figure it out. You know -- if a guy needs 2,000, I'm going to take it. If a guy needs 5,000, I'll figure out the footprint. Baringhaus: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Anything else. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Did you mention earlier that this -- let me ask this. Is this the exact sign that you're proposing to put in? Denha: Yes. That's exactly the sign we're going to put up. Aesthetically, that was help with design between my architect and Paul from the sign company. Schepis: Okay. I thought you had mentioned earlier, you're taking this from something on the east side to give us -- City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 12 of 54 August 30, 2016 Denha: You know what he's got -- I'm sorry he's got a little different one that's got different names in it. So it's strictly the name mix I was referring to. Schepis: Oh, okay. Denha: I wasn't clear with that. The naming mix. Forgive me. Schepis: Sothis -- Denha: That's what's going on the property, hopefully. Schepis: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Anything else? Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: You mentioned illumination. What type of illumination are you going to using? What hours of illumination are you planning? Denha: Well we're going to have a photo cell on it, but I'll let Paul speak to the kind of illumination. Ferguson: It will be LED's. LED -- they're like LED sticks. So basically it looks like the old florescent tubes like this, but they're the LED 5403's. They're high -- they're low efficiency. Meaning that they don't pull too many amps. So you're basically -- you know -- one -- one circuit per sign. So -- you know -- you probably got I'm going to say 20 to 25 amps per sign. It's pretty low. Denha: Yeah. Neville: I mean -- what times of the day are they going to be lit? Denha: Well it's on a photo cell so -- dawn to dusk. Ferguson: Until the sun comes up. Denha: We do photo cells on all of our stuff because time clocks break down. Put a photo cell right on, either the building or the sign, and it goes on and off. Neville: What's the impact do on the neighboring residents? Denha: To the south of me is a Wendy's. To the north of me is the road, Sears. To the west of me is the vacant Farmer Jack, and to the east of me is the road. I'm on the hard City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 13 of 54 August 30, 2016 corner. And right now, I'm in the process of changing all the parking lights to LED. So we have about 21 new light poles going in right now. So everything's LED in what we do. Neville: Thank you. Denha: Thank you, sir. Henzi: Anything else? Fisher: Mr. Chair, can I just ask? Henzi: Mr. Fisher. Fisher: Following up with your conversation with Mr. Pastor. Will you be willing to accept as a condition of this variance conforming signage for the wall signs on the building? Denha: The current signs that are on there? Fisher: I -- well -- will you be willing to accept as a condition going forward that you have conforming signs on the building? Denha: Let me ask a question to you. I want to fully understand your question. Anybody that applies for a sign is going to be per the City code, correct? Fisher: Well -- Denha: I'm assuming. Fisher: -- if you don't come here, yes, of course. Ferguson: So you're asking if anybody -- if any tenant comes into his building, he will not come to the ZBA asking for a larger sign? Fisher: Exactly. Because you're the -- all the variance request by ordinance have to come through the owner. Denha: From the landlord. Fisher: From the owner, yes. Denha: Correct. So anybody that wants to apply for a variance outside the expectation and limits that the municipality sets forth, you want me to guarantee that I won't support any larger signage on the building? Fisher: Well, I'm asking if you would accept that as a condition based on what you said earlier. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 14 of 54 August 30, 2016 Denha: I mean -- of course I'll look at it because I'm not going to back off of what I said. I want the signs to be conforming. So as long as they're within City code, I'll do that. No if you want me to warrant that, I will, because that's how important this signage is. I mean -- I can't stress enough -- you know -- believe me or not -- you know -- I didn't spend those kind of money on that building to have little signage on -- the pylons. And it's -- it's -- I've been doing this a long time and you guys see a lot of it. This is an important piece on a center like this. And -- and -- and I think -- I would the consideration that -- from where that center came from to where it's at today -- I know everybody's happy about it, but this is that last component because I don't want to leave those signs up there, and neither do you, guys, want to see them up there. Henzi: Anything else? Denha: But, yes, I'll consider that. Henzi: Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project. Seeing nobody, can you read the letters? Baringhaus: Yes. We have seven letters. Letter from Anna Enzmann, 29508 Clarita, objecting, (letter read). Letter from Charles McFetters, 29562 Clarita, Livonia, Michigan, (letter read). Letter of objection from John Agge, 29508 Clarita, (letter read). Letter from Connie Adkins, 29570 Clarita, (letter read). Letter of objection, Jamie Clark, 29682 Clarita, (letter read). Letter of objection from Phyllis Nelson, 29560 Clarita, (letter read). Letter from Charles McFetter, 29562 Clarita, (letter read). Henzi: All right, gentleman, go ahead. Denha: I mean -- here's what I'll say in closing to this Board. We -- we had a lot of feedback from City Council and Planning. Fast forward to where we're at today. At a high level -- ladies and gentleman -- I put my money where my mouth is to remodel that center. I think that this signage we proposed is gorgeous. I think the pictures don't do it justice, and from a business point of view, it's very critical to the success of this center. Not only with the vacancy, but I would ask you guys to look on the horizon. If I ever have to chop up that building. I'm not a seller guys. I do a lot of business in Wayne County, especially Livonia. Between my property end and my tenant end, and respectfully, this pylon signage is critical to keeping that center -- getting the people in and keeping it full. And the finished product you see is great. This is the last piece. And landscaping. Henzi: Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Well first of all the building looks great. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 15 of 54 August 30, 2016 Denha: Thank you. Schepis: So -- so good work. As to the signs, there's a couple of different variances here, as I read it. There's one for the sign area, one for the sign height, and then the sign width. You know -- width is for a foot and half, and I don't think that's -- you know -- I would accept that. As far as the sign height goes -- you know -- it is almost double what's allowed, but when I look at what's there currently, that's I think 30 some feet. This is a substantial reduction and I think it looks a lot better than what's there now. As far as the sign area, I -- I -- it's a pretty big excess. I think you've articulated why you want it, which is -- so you can -- you can lease locations in that building, but I also do think that it is set pretty far back from the road, and there are a couple of buildings that block kind of a line of sight. There's a Wendy's and another restaurant. You know -- I can see the need for a -- for a variance there. I think if -- if the condition about -- you know -- not having the other tenants that come into the property request a variance. If you were to agree to that, I think this might be a reasonable compromise since we have clarity on what the signage would like given this -- this structure. So with that said, I could support it. I don't know what the rest of the Board thinks, but that's where I'm at. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well, I'm having a lot of heartburn with the sign area. Sign height, I totally understand. Sign width, I understand, but that all has to with also square foot. Normally, I wouldn't even -- I would not even think about supporting this much overage, but I think I can get myself by this as long as you agreed that or we put in the condition no other variances will be given out on signage on this building, but then you may be cutting your own throat. So I can support it with that -- with that variance -- or with that condition. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I generally agree that I think it's very positive that the sign has been reduced from 32.5 feet to 15 feet. I still think 15 feet's a little large relative to the location near the street. Again, sort of not quite sure what the appropriate signage is for that. I agree with Mr. Pastor's comment, though. I would be willing to support, again, if there was no other variances allowed on that property regarding signage. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: First of all, again, the center looks great Denha: Thank you, sir. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 16 of 54 August 30, 2016 Coppola: Nice improvement. I appreciate you making that investment in Livonia. Probably would have, however, made sense to you if you came in for your sign variance before you spent all that money to make sure that it went to a good place. You know -- when I consider the option being you leaving the signs that exist there, I think it's a -- it's a -- it's a pretty good trade compared to those much more attractive, much more contemporary. Obviously, I'd like it to be a little smaller. Seems to be a lot of spots for tenants that I can't imagine there's that many tenants in there. But, again, as a trade-off -- I mean -- your option is you can leave that sign up there and stick -- and I think this is a great improvement -- significant improvement. You've actually reduced the sign area by over 20 percent, and you've dropped it 17.5 feet. I think that's a good horse trade from my perspective. And I'm in support. The only thing I -- I agree with is a condition that -- that all wall signs are -- need to be conforming. If that's not a condition, as long as I'm on this Board, I won't allow a non -conforming wall sign. And then the other thing. I'm a little concerned on the setback on -- on the east side sign. It's only six feet, which is awfully close to the roadway, especially if a car were to leave the road. I would prefer it to be a little further back. I don't know how much extra room you have to move that back. I would prefer that to be moved back to like ten feet just to be a little safer, but if not, I'd still be in support. But that would be my recommendation to move that. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I look at it this way. The existing sign is -- just the sign, not the big poles, is 9 -foot by 15 -foot, and so your sign is essentially 9 -foot and 4.5 inches by 15 -foot. So it's essentially the same sign, except it's without the giant poles. I think it looks nice. I also mentioned -- you know -- we've got to read the Planning Commission, the City Council has gone through this and has worked with guys and has basically approved it leaving it up to us to go with the variance. But they've had a chance to -- to -- you know -- ponder it and -- and give their two cents as well. And I think, just looking at the way my colleagues are -- are suggesting -- and it was Mr. Fisher -- suggested the kind of trade off of we approved this bigger, then the signs on the wall should be conforming. I think that's -- that is a reasonable condition, and -- and it sounds like you would go for that. And so I would be in support with my colleagues. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I pretty much agree with everything my colleagues have stated. When you look just at the numbers, they seem like wow this is quite a -- quite a variance. But when you go out and examine the property -- especially when in comparison to what was there, you've actually reduced the -- the signage in every capacity. So I don't think that the numbers are -- are off. I think it works well. I think if that setback on the -- on the street was moved from six to ten feet, it would be right in the middle of the drive through. So City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 17 of 54 August 30, 2016 that would not be feasible option. So I -- I'm in support of the three variances that are requested with -- I concur with my colleagues with the condition being that no future variances, in respect to wall signs, in the future, which might -- which would be inconsistent with then existing ordinance and regulations. So subject to that I would be in favor in granting the variance request in all three. Henzi: I -- I vote yes. This is an easy one for me. This proposed sign is significantly smaller than what exists. Like with the renovation, the Petitioner is replacing a couple of relics with nice looking updated signs. And I think one of the arguments that he didn't make, but which one I would have made is that the pylon sign -- certainly on the Middlebelt side, has no purpose. And what you've proposed is exactly what I think what most developers would think of because now it's going to be useful again, and you don't have to trim the trees. I think it's going to look fantastic. I have no problem with the lighting. It's been on photo cell probably for the last 40 years on all of these signs. I think it's going to look great. So I appreciate your presentation, and floor's open for motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Coppola, it was: RESLOVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-48 (Rescheduled from Au_gust 16, 2016): An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Ford Road Ventures, 40700 Woodward, Ste. 250, Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304, seeking to erect two identical ground signs, one on each of two major thoroughfares, resulting in excess sign area, sign height and width. Sign Area: Allowed: 80 sq. ft. ( 40 sq. ft. each sign) Proposed: 212 sq. ft. (106 sq. ft. each sign) Excess: 132 sq. ft. ( 66 sq. ft. each sign) Sign Height: Allowed: 8 feet Proposed: 15 feet Sign Width: Allowed: 10.0 feet Proposed Excess: 7 feet Excess: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals 11.5 feet 1.5 feet Page 18 of 54 August 30, 2016 The property is located on the west side of Middlebelt (19043), between Seven Mile and Clarita, Lot. No. 041-99-0004-000, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H,(b),1, "Sign Regulations in C-1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the location of the property on a corner lot. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner due to their reduced visibility and identification of those businesses by customers. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance due to the size reduction of the signage for the site. 4. The Board received zero letters of approval and zero objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "General Commercial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That all wall signs on the site now and in the future fully comply with all applicable ordinance provisions. 2. That the site comply with all conditions set down by the Planning Commission and City Council. 3. That the signs be designed and constructed as proposed. AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Henzi, Pastor, Baringhaus NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: Variance is granted. Good luck. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 19 of 54 August 30, 2016 Denha: Thank you. I appreciate everybody listening, and I appreciate you guys working with me. Mr. Pastor, thank you. I appreciate your feedback, and I think we'll be in good shape. Henzi: Thanks. Denha: Thank you. Ferguson: Thank you. APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-49 (Tabled on July 12, 2016) : An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Stephen Velte, 31557 Myrna, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage, resulting in excess garage area and height. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 20 of 54 August 30, 2016 Detached Garage Area: Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Proposed: 1429 sq. ft. Excess: 709 sq. ft. Garage Height: Allowed: 16 ft. 0 in. Proposed: 22 ft. 6 in. Excess: 6 ft. 6 in. The property is located on the South side of Myrna (31557), between Merriman and Auburndale, Lot. No. 060-01-0647-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building." Henzi: Is there a motion to remove from the table? Pastor: I make a motion to remove from the table. Coppola: Support. Henzi: Support by Mr. Coppola. All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: Thank you. Mr. Banko, anything to add? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Will the Petitioner please come to the table? Good evening. E.Velte: Nice to see you again. Henzi: Can you say your names and address one more time? E.Velte: My name is Erica Velte. I'm here with my husband Stephen Velte. We reside at 31557 Myrna Street in Livonia. Henzi: Okay. I remember well, you were here once before. Can you tell us what's different about your proposal? E. Velte: Yes. You had asked -- and there was obvious concern with the prior height being at 27 feet 9 inches. Being much too large for our neighborhood and -- and kind of -- we didn't want to -- we didn't -- I don't think anybody wanted to see it from three streets City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 21 of 54 August 30, 2016 over. So we were able to discuss with our contractors and change the design of the actual garage, bringing it down to 22 feet 6 inches, which is closer in a previously approved garages in the neighborhood. And I did bring the -- the one from Ingram where they were approved for a 22 -foot height and 1,395 square feet area. Henzi: Thank you for looking that up and bringing it. E. Velte: You're welcome. Henzi: Because I think I asked you to do it. E. Velte: Yes. S. Velte: We went and talked to him, and it does make a big difference in the height after looking at it. Henzi: Can you talk about the building materials. E. Velte: Building materials -- S. Velte: Will match the house -- E. Velte: We'll completely match the house aesthetically, same color siding, same color roof, cement pad. S. Velte: Same white trim. E. Velte: Same white trim. Everything will be exactly to match the house. Henzi: What did you change about the design to get the height down? E. Velte: Instead of doing an A-line as we had originally proposed -- I call it the barn style where it's rounded instead of peaked, and they brought it down as much as they could without involving any special construction to the building. Henzi: No -- no overhead door in the back? E. Velte: No. Henzi: Don't need one? E. Velte: No. S. Velte: Just the three doors in the front, and the side door like a normal garage. E. Velte: Yep, just the three doors in the front. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 22 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Okay. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: I apologize I was not here the first time you brought this to the Board. What is the reason why you need double -- almost double -- garage space than what's allowed? E. Velte: Well, I'm not sure if you've seen the current garage. I apologize I didn't bring the pictures again. Pastor: I've seen the current garage. E. Velte: It's super small, and it was actually like an original chicken coop or something. They hay feeders are still in there. It's very small, very low, off of the existing cement driveway. My husband has a boat, and as you've probably seen we have several vehicles in the driveway now that we would like to be able to get as many off of the driveway and into the building as possible. Right now, we're spending quite a bit of money every month on two storage units. One for the boat, and one for storage for basically all of my holiday decorations, winter clothes, things like that because we have no storage in the home at all. Pastor: I can understand that for your upstairs part, but why do you need 44 -foot wide by 32 -foot long. You could probably put 8 cars in that garage, easily. S. Velte: In our neighborhood, if you drive down Auburndale, and down Myrna, and down Ingram, several people have double garages. If you look at them -- we brought pictures last time -- there's some in the front. Some in the back. Some of the ones that are attached to the house are double long, which is going to be no greater in size than any of theirs. We just want one complete garage. E. Velte: The boat is quite big. S. Velte: It's 32 -- 26 feet long. E. Velte: And we also have quite a large work van that sits outside right now because it's almost as big as the current garage. We'd like to be able to put that in, as well as, one of my vehicles, be it summer, winter -- to be able to park it. We have a lot of fishing gear. My husband loves to fish. Half of one storage unit is actually all fishing stuff. So we definitely have -- Pastor: This is twice what's allowed. I mean -- I understand you're asking for this, but it's not only twice allowed, but then you have an upstairs as well so. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 23 of 54 August 30, 2016 S. Velte: That would be storage for all the stuff that we have. We have no storage whatsoever in the house. I have a van, a truck. She has a car, and we also have -- E. Velte: An SUV and then the boat, as well. S. Velte: An SUV and another work trailer. E. Velte: And -- and then my brother is living with us right now too. So it's his car in the driveway as well. It's quite a bit. It looks trashy with so many vehicles out all the time. Anytime family comes over, it's going to look even worse. And -- you know -- we have lawn equipment and everything else as well to -- to put in. Pastor: So you mentioned work van several times. What is the work van? What do you do? S. Velte: I install, sand, and finish wood floors. Pastor: Sorry? S. Velte: I install, sand, and finish wood floors. And I'd also like to get my van inside the garage so it doesn't get broken into. E. Velte: Yes. Henzi: Can you go into greater detail? We spent a lot of time on that the last time -- about the work van and -- that was really the main for us. Could you go over that? S. Velte: Right because one of the storage units is that we have is down on -- it's Devon Storage, and it's a heated facility, and I have excess tools -- saws and a couple extra sanders. And so I have to run down there to grab a tool. E. Velte: Which is 30 minutes away from home. S. Velte: You know -- and it's the only place I can get my boat because it's 15x35 storage unit, which holds my boat and holds all my fishing gear. And then right next to it is my other storage unit. That also holds all our excess stuff onto of tools. And then I wouldn't have to run down there to unload tools, to run to pick up wood, to deliver wood, then run back to pick up my tools. Pastor: So you'll be working out of this garage? S. Velte: No. I will not be working -- E. Velte: No. Absolutely not. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 24 of 54 August 30, 2016 Pastor: Well that's what you just told me. You have to store all of your equipment there S. Velte: Well I have my work tools, and I have to unload them somewhere. Where would I put them? E. Velte: But he doesn't -- right. There's no working out of our home. You know -- he works out of his van. He quotes floors, and he delivers tools to his employees -- you know -- his sub -contractors, but he -- S. Velte: But if I go pick up flooring from Michigan Hardwood, then where do I stick my tools? E. Velte: Right. Pastor: How many employees do you have? S. Velte: I have no employees. E. Velte: Sub -- sub -contractors. S. Velte: I have a couple of guys that sub to me. I get a contract for work. Then I pay them to go install the floor, and the I go sand and finish it. But if I deliver my own wood, then I don't have pay $150.00 wood delivery -- because I have to get it there two days early, but then I have to unload my tools. And I have to have a place to unload my power drive, my belt sander, edgers, buffer because I can't carry 800 feet of wood with all my tools. Pastor: Okay. Henzi: Now, as I'm reading the minutes. That -- that's why you need the space? You need to allow the wood to cure. You mentioned that last time. S. Velte: Well if I have a couple bundles of wood left over. Henzi: Right. S. Velte: I would like to keep them. Then take them to another job -- you know -- for excess moldings and stuff. Henzi: But you're also saying that, for example, there was a $6000.00 belt drive. E. Velte: Oh the power drive. S. Velte: Yeah, the power drive. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 25 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Huge machines. So in order to make room on the trailer, you got to move the machines to deliver the wood. E. Velte: Some of them -- some of them are big. S. Velte: Yeah, I have to put them somewhere. So if I have my garage, I can put them in the garage. Henzi: Thank you. I got it now. S. Velte: Okay. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: When Mr. Chair -- when the Chair says huge machines, how big are they because I've seen belt sanders. They're not huge machines. S. Velte: It's 300 -- it's 250 pounds. It's probably 4 feet long and 2 feet wide. So I have to unload that, and I have power drive, which is a big buffer. Then I have a vacuum system -- two different vacuum systems about that big. Pastor: Okay. S. Velte: So it would -- if I unload all my tools to carry wood, it would take up 12x8 space, maybe a little bit more. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: You mentioned the need to secure your tools in the truck on your property? S. Velte: Yes, sir. Baringhaus: How do you secure your tools when the truck is on a job site? S. Velte: I'm there in and out of the van all day. So -- I mean -- I lock my doors, but it doesn't sit through the dark 10 hours outside. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 26 of 54 August 30, 2016 E. Velte: I mean -- obviously we live in a great neighborhood. You know -- our -- our -- a few of our neighbors have mentioned in the past that there are hoodlums coming over -- you know -- and sneaking through the neighborhood. Somebody had their tires or rims or something stolen -- S. Velte: Stuff stolen out of their cars. E. Velte: -- things stolen out of the mailbox. Things like that -- not -- I don't think frequently, but it's a concern. I don't -- we don't have -- you know -- the van labeled. So no one really knows what's in there, but it would be certainly peace of mind if we would park it in the garage, locked up safe, and not have to worry about it. S. Velte: And -- and on our road, I think there's seven oversize garages, if not more. E. Velte: Not -- not quite as big obviously, but -- S. Velte: No -- no there's several of them -- that there's one that's 2430 behind the house, and then they have a 2424 -- you know -- attached to the house. And then down from the road, there's a 24 by -- I think it's 40 -foot deep. There's two or three of those. And they're just added on -- you can see. We brought pictures last time. Sorry I didn't have those for you this time. E. Velte: I apologize, I -- I thought I should have brought them. Pastor: None of those sizes are anywhere near as big as this one. S. Velte: As far as -- I guess I didn't take measurements of them. I can get the pictures for you. Pastor: Thank you. Henzi: Any other questions? Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up. Can you read the letters? Baringhaus: We have two letters. Letter of approval from Christine Beroff, 15957 Merriman. Second letter of approval from Gary and Teressa Norton, 31950 Myrna, Livonia, Michigan, (letter read). That's it. Henzi: Mr. and Mrs. Velte, anything you want to say in closing? E. Velte: I would just like to say I appreciate you guys bringing us back and giving us the opportunity to bring the height down to a more reasonable level that we could work with, and hopefully we get this done today so I can have a garage for the winter time. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 27 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Thank you. Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: What kind of power are you planning on putting in this garage? S. Velte: We're going to have DTE run a new -- Pastor: So you're putting a full service on? E. Velte: Yes, sir. Yes. We're going to have its own service. S. Velte: I guess that's what it's going to be. Pastor: So you could have workshop in there? S. Velte: Will not have a workshop. E. Velte: Oh no workshop. He doesn't do -- Pastor: What do you need all the power for then? S. Velte: Because our fuse box in our house is maxed out. Pastor: You could just upgrade your service on your house. S. Velte: I guess we -- I'm not a construction guy. E. Velte: We could do that. S. Velte: I never even thought about that. So I'm not going to have a workshop. If that's a condition, I have no problem signing off on anything. Inspection -- no workshop. I have no desire to have a workshop. E. Velte: His flooring would require -- Pastor: The thing is, I'm not worried about you. I'm worried about the guy who buys your house. E. Velte: Oh, we're not ever moving. Pastor: Really. E. Velte: I'm not -- I'm not ever moving. This is my forever home. We've been looking for years for a house like this. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 28 of 54 August 30, 2016 Pastor: Someday you're moving, and maybe to a cemetery, but you're moving someday. S. Velte: It won't be for 20 years. E. Velte: You're taking me out feet first. S. Velte: And if I had to, I'd make them sign a condition. It will not be a workshop. It is strictly for boat and the stuff we have in storage because we absolutely have none. And you know -- paying the storage fees and the travel time is terrible. E. Velte: It's horrible. Schepis: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I'm sorry. I forgot. Do you have a basement? E. Velte: No. S. Velte: No, sir. Schepis: No. S. Velte: We've hired foundation systems to come in and capsulate it because it was so nasty. E. Velte: The crawl space -- because it was like really disgusting. Henzi: Anything else. Okay. I'll close the public portion of the case and being the Board's comments with Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Well, I'm sure that everybody's deducted from my line of questioning I'm not in favor of this. This is way too big, in my opinion. I understand you need more room. I understand you don't have a basement, but that's what your upstairs is all about, and I have no problems with that. The size of this garage is massive. It's probably as big as some houses in your subdivision. So for this proposal I -- I just cannot -- I cannot approve this proposal. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Based on the photos that you brought to the last meeting -- you know -- definitely the current buildings on the property are in need of being upgraded and replaced. It's a little ironic. My aunt actually lived in this neighborhood while your garages were formerly chicken coops, hers were horse stables. So I can totally understand that. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 29 of 54 August 30, 2016 I think the property itself is fairly large, and with the structure being set back far enough from the road, while it is a large structure. It is not overpowering to the area, and I agree, I did see similar types of structures in the neighborhood. I think you demonstrated in the spirit of being cooperative, compromising on your design, looking up ordinances, things like that. We appreciate that. I will support. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I recall being the last time that we went through this. We spent quite bit of time discussing size and location, comparative size garages, and such. I think when it came down to it -- our -- our -- tabled it and we asked you to consider the height. We have already kind of gotten past all the other -- other issues. It is absolutely a huge garage. It's bigger than most houses. I would say the average house probably in Livonia it's bigger than. It is a large lot. I think it won't to be too overwhelming for that lot. They -- they've done what we asked them to come back and do, which was to -- to -- to moderate the size, the height of the -- of the building, and you've done that. So from that perspective, again because we crossed all the other bridges and you've done what we've asked you to do, I'm in support. E. Velte: Thank you Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I would agree. These are bigger lots, bigger areas. It's the RUF district. Looking at the minutes, and what we've discussed, and what we asked you to do, you went and did. You actually -- I looked at the last numbers. You said should we come back at 24 or 23 or 22, and you came back at 22. So you dropped it 5 -foot. I'm glad you got a new design. You need it. It will be big, but you've got no garage and you've got the reasons behind it. So I would be in support. E. Velte: Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I know that one of the things that was a concern to us was the orientation of your lot because as opposed to the other properties that your siting, those are deep in the back and you can't see that from the street. That's obviously something beyond your control - - the way your lot is laid out. I agree with my colleagues. There was information we asked you to obtain. Things that we wanted you to consider. You've done that, and I think in light of all that, I would be in favor of granting the request for the variance. E. Velte: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 30 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree with Mr. Coppola. You know -- we looked at this time. What we've asked you to do was consider the height of the garage, and that's what you did. So I support it. E. Velte: Thank you. Henzi: I, too, will support it. I -- I think you did a nice job. I think you have a really nice looking design this time too. I like the idea of standard electric and no workshop which is a rule anyway. I'd also like to see no other out buildings. I mean -- I'd hate to give this size of a garage and have a shed pop up. E. Velte: We certainly don't need anything else. Henzi: So having said that, floor's open for motion. Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Upon Motion by Klisz and supported by Neville, it was: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-07-49 (Tabled on July 12, 2016) : An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Stephen Velte, 31557 Myrna, Livonia, MI 48154, seeking to construct a detached garage, resulting in excess garage area and height. Detached Garage Area: Garage Height: Allowed: 720 sq. ft. Allowed: 16 ft. 0 in. Proposed: 1429 sq. ft. Proposed: 22 ft. 6 in. Excess 709 sq. ft. Excess: 6 ft. 6 in. The property is located on the South side of Myrna (31557), between Merriman and Auburndale, Lot. No. 060-01-0647-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 2.10 (5), "Definition of Miscellaneous Terms; Garage, Private," and Section 18.24, "Residential Accessory Building," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 31 of 54 August 30, 2016 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the existing structure being a chicken coop and there not being a basement in the house. Also, this is a big lot in an area with big lots. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because of the lack of storage, and the inability to store vehicles and boat inside. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because the neighbors are in support and this is an area with bigger lots. 4. The Board received two letters of approval and zero objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "Low Density Residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the garage be built as proposed. 2. That standard 110 -volt service be installed. 3. That no workshop be used. 4. That no other out buildings be allowed on the property AYES: Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Coppola, Baringhaus, Henzi NAYS: Pastor ABSENT: None E. Velte: Thank you, gentlemen, very much. S. Velte: Thank you. Henzi: Good luck to you. APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-61 : An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Christopher Mason, 17920 Lathers, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 32 of 54 August 30, 2016 a single family dwelling with attached garage upon a lot which is deficient in area. The existing shed shall remain. The existing home was destroyed by fire. Lot Area: Required: 0.50 acres (21,780 sq. ft.) Existing: 0.40 acres (17,585 sq. ft.) Deficient: 0.10 acres ( 4,195 sq. ft) The property is located on the East side of Lathers (17920), between Floral and Curtis, Lot. No. 048-01-0083-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5.04, "Minimum Lot Size." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for Mr. Banko? Pastor: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Pastor. Pastor: Isn't this a plotted lot -- I mean -- on our site plans it looks like a plotted lot, right? Banko: It is a plotted lot. Pastor: Okay. Thank you. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Mr. Banko, based on the proposed site plan would build new building on it. Is there any other variances that would be required to build this house? Banko: I don't believe so. Coppola: Have you seen the -- Banko: This is my first look at it so. Coppola: Okay. I think there's a small version right there. Banko: I'm sure the one I'm looking at -- the house would meet the setback requirements. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 33 of 54 August 30, 2016 Coppola: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we're -- we needed to approve something, we did it all at the one time. Thank you. Henzi: Mr. Banko, I had one for you. If the insurance company wanted to gut this house and build -- you know -- rebuild what exists, would they need a variance, or is it only because they are going to demo and build this new house that they need a variance? Fisher: If I can address that. This house is a little bit bigger than the one that's there. Henzi: Okay. Coppola: It's the deficient lot. Pastor: I don't think that answered your question. Henzi: Is that only reason why they have to come because it's a little bigger? Fisher: I think we'd just call it good and be donewith it. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Anything else. All right, will the Petitioner please come to the table? Kostich: Good evening Henzi: Good evening. Kostich: My name's Kim Kostich, Anchor Homes, 13121 Nine Mile Road, South Lyon, Michigan. K. Mason: I am Karen Mason, 17242 Rouge Way, Livonia, 48152. C. Mason: Chris Mason, 14370 Sunbury, Livonia, MI 484154. Henzi: Okay. Go ahead and tell us about the house. K. Mason: I had a house fire right after we got divorced. I'm actually -- the house is in his name, and I was going to refinance to put it in my name, but then the fire occurred so I can't refinance anything until I get a house put back up. They were going to come in and -- you know -- fix it and everything, but I just decided -- like -- it's been sitting for so long. After so much going back and forth with insurance and stuff, I'm going to be living forever. I have no plans of moving out of the area anytime soon. So I figured now would be the time to like add a basement. I never had one. Just demo it and start fresh. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 34 of 54 August 30, 2016 Kostich: We -- we've done an inspection on the property. The property's a total loss. It can't be repaired. So that's why when the Mason's contacted me, we discussed a new home. That seems the best alternative for this property. Henzi: Can you tell us about -- you've got a really nice rendering. Tell us about the building materials, the size, etcetera. Kostich: It's a brick front, vinyl sided on the sides. We do have a rendering. I don't see an easel. Maybe Chris -- could you hold this up, I sure would appreciate it. This is what the home would look like. I've done several in the area. Across the street from City Hall here, there's probably 20 of these. So I've been a builder in the area for quite a while. Sorry, Chris, didn't mean to hide you there. Henzi: Same colors? Kostich: The colors -- this is just a rendering. I did show this to the Mason's and they did like the colors. K. Mason: Yeah. I haven't picked yet. I'm waiting to pick our brick and stuff. Kostich: But it will be something nice. We do nice packages, nice homes. Henzi: Okay. Any questions? Klisz: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: What is the original size of the homes versus the new proposed one? What's the difference? K. Mason: 1680 with no basement. This is 1651 with a full basement. Kostich: 1651. So actually it's about the same size. Klisz: Okay. Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 35 of 54 August 30, 2016 Neville: To kind of follow up some of our discussion before you came up. The drawing - - the plan that you submitted is the footprint that the building is going to sit on. Is that correct? Kostich: That's correct. Neville: Okay. So the size setbacks would be as reflected as well as the -- the front yard setbacks? Kostich: Yes, sir. Neville: Thank you. Henzi: Anything else? Hearing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the project? If so, come on up to the table. V. Rusnow: Is this the house right here? Kostich: Yes. V. Rusnow: And where -- which side is the garage located on? Kostich: Actually what home we're intending to build would be a mirror plan of this. The garage would actually be on the opposite side. It would be on this side. V. Rusnow: Okay. So it's on the same side as it is? Kostich: Correct. Correct. V. Rusnow: Okay. Since there is more property being used, maybe you could like -- use -- maybe -- well -- I've noticed that there's been a lot work from the garage when she was living there -- like sanding and building. K. Mason: We -- we made a shelf -- Henzi: Hold on. We need to make a good record. So, ma'am, first of all, your name and address, please. V. Rusnow: Virginia Rusnow, 17911 Lathers. Henzi: Okay. So here's how it works. So you get the opportunity to say whether you're for or against it. And then to the Masons, at the end, speakers and the letters, then you get to comment back. V. Rusnow: Okay. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 36 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: All right. So go ahead, Mrs. Rusnow. V. Rusnow: Well, I'm glad that the garage is on that side. That's good. I just want to make sure that there's not going to be any work coming out of that -- like her business, or working, sanding -- you know -- building and all that. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up. G. Rusnow: I'm Gary Rusnow. I live at 17911 Lathers, Livonia. And my concern is, is this going to have a basement put into it, I understand. It's a high water table in that area. Now are they going to be putting sump pumps in there to take the water out, or is that what going to happen? Kostich: That's required. G. Rusnow: Okay. Where does the water flow? Kostich: It flows out to the ditch in front of the property. G. Rusnow: Okay. Not the back part. Henzi: Wait -- hold on. Make your comment about the water table, and then we'll give him the opportunity to speak so that we can all hear him. G. Rusnow: Yeah. The water table's high there, I know, and a lot of people that have basements have had them redone. Completely re-gutted and redone. And my concern is -- is this going to cause a problem for other neighbors that don't have a basement now and it floods their backyard. Is there going to be a water pump in the back. Is it going to flood the backyard? Is it just going to the ditch, going into City water, sewer, or what? Henzi: Okay. We'll make Mr. Kostich respond to that. Kostich: It's required by code that we put sump pumps in all new construction. The sump pump will discharge through a PVC line to the ditch in front of the property. Once it reaches the ditch, then that's part of the master drain for the City. Henzi: Have you done that on all the models -- this model that you've constructed? Kostich: The majority of them. On occasion were lucky enough to have a storm sewer nearby, but not typically. But that's -- that's the typical way of doing it. Henzi: Thank you. Kostich: And that would also go for all the new construction going in the area, unless they have a storm sewer. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 37 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Rusnow, does that satisfy you, or at least answer your question? G. Rusnow: Yes, it does, and then the other question I would have is how much -- how much leeway is on each side of the lot from the adjoining property lines? Henzi: You can come up here and look. G. Rusnow: Okay. Henzi: Anybody else have a comment? Can you read the letters, please? Baringhaus: Yes. We have two letters. Letter of objection from Hannah Russey, 17790 Lathers, Livonia, Michigan, (letter read). Second letter from Donald W. Davis, 17980 Lathers, (letter read). Henzi: Mr. and Mrs. Mason, anything you want to say in closing? K. Mason: I want to move home. I've been out of there for almost a year. I got children. I just want to go back to normal. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Yeah, I just have one question. I noticed that the proposed home is set back 50 feet from the street. Your neighbor's homes are set back 39 to 40 feet. Why the additional setback? Kostich: That's a minimum requirement that the City has. I mean -- if you'd like us, we'd be more than happy to move it up to the 40 -foot. Baringhaus: We're good. Thank you. Henzi: Okay. Anything else. Hearing none, I'm going to close the public portion of the case and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I think their proposal's very reasonable. Looking at the design of the house, I think it's definitely going to add to the neighborhood. Very well thought out design. I'm in support of the variance. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I think the main issue here is it's a deficient lot, not necessarily the design of the homes or any other issues. I counted 56 lots that street, only 4 of them appear to be in compliance. So I -- you know -- I can't see any reason why withhold approval of this variance. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 38 of 54 August 30, 2016 Henzi: Mr. Klisz Klisz: To me, again, this isn't being replacing a small house with a giant house, or something like that. That would be a problem for me. Otherwise -- you know -- everyone's out of compliance, essentially. So it's rebuilding a house in about the same spot, maybe slightly bigger, but it will be consistent and it looks nice. I would be in support. Henzi: Mr. Neville Neville: Looking at the issue before us in relative to deficiency, I agree with Mr. Coppola. That when you look at all the -- there are a number of lots up and down that street that would fit the same criteria. I think they've established a need for the variance. So I would be in full support of granting the petition. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, we -- we frequently approve -- I think this is in fact deficiency in some of the neighborhoods. So I don't have any objection to it. I'd support this. Henzi: Mr. Pastor Pastor: I'm not even sure why we're hearing this case. It's a plotted lot. I don't even know that we could not give them permission. I think we -- I think we'd almost have to, only because it is plotted. Because someone changed the rule after the lot's been plotted, doesn't give us the right not to allow them to build. So absolutely they should be able build on this lot. So I'll be definitely in favor. Henzi: Yeah, the City has allowed the neighborhood to exist that doesn't conform. These folks want to build a house on a lot where a house exists. And this is a very cool street. I don't think I've been on that section of Lathers. Very nice, beautiful street. The architecture's very different. K. Mason: It's like up north in the city. Henzi: Yeah. Some homes are really old, some newer ones. I think it's going to look great. Kostich: Can I ask one more thing? Henzi: Yeah. Kostich: The five day waiting period, can we waive that? Henzi: Yeah, I'm sure someone will add that. So floor's open for motion City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 39 of 54 August 30, 2016 Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Upon Motion by Coppola and supported by Pastor, it was: RESLOVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-61: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Christopher Mason, 17920 Lathers, Livonia, MI 48152, seeking to construct a single family dwelling with attached garage upon a lot which is deficient in area. The existing shed shall remain. The existing home was destroyed by fire. Lot Area: Required: 0.50 acres (21,780 sq. ft.) Existing: 0.40 acres (17,585 sq. ft.) Deficient: 0.10 acres ( 4,195 sq. ft) The property is located on the East side of Lathers (17920), between Floral and Curtis, Lot. No. 048-01-0083-000, RUF-A Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 5.04, "Minimum Lot Size," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because this is lot size is the same as almost the other lot sizes in the subdivision. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because many of the other lots in that area have similar deficiencies. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because most of the lots being deficient and being built on. 4. The Board received zero letters of approval and one objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "Low Density Residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 40 of 54 August 30, 2016 FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the 5 day waiting period to obtain the permit be waived. 2. That the proposed structure be built as presented with this specific model. AYES: Coppola, Klisz, Neville, Schepis, Baringhaus, Pastor, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: None Henzi: Approved. You can get a permit tomorrow. Good luck. Kostich: Thank you. We'll make you proud. K. Mason: Thank you. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 41 of 54 August 30, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-62: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Eym King of Michigan, LLC, 2730 N. Stemmons Fwy., Ste. 908, Dallas, TX 75207, on behalf of Lessee Burger King, 34835 Plymouth, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect four (4) wall signs, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Allowed: One Proposed: Four Excess: Three Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 41 sq. ft. Proposed: 119 sq. ft. Excess: 78 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Plymouth (34835), between Laurel and Wayne, Lot. No. 130-01-0009-004, C-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I have nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department. Hearing none. Good evening, gentleman. J. Pastor: Good evening. John Pastor, George H. Pastor & Sons, 34018 Beacon, Livonia, Michigan. Representing EYM and Burger King Corporation. Here to answer any questions that you may have about the about the petition. Henzi: I think the signs were kind of self-explanatory. J. Pastor: This is very standard with Burger King's that have already -- that we've already in the city, and with the conditions that actually the Planning Commission asked to -- you know -- approve and the Council. So we're just following all the way through to get the signage requirements that the other two Burger King's have had. Henzi: Yeah. That -- that was really my one line of questioning. Is this the prototype, which it looks like given the other stores? Seven and Middlebelt -- J. Pastor: Yes, it is. Actually it is -- actually yeah, it's evolved just a little bit. Instead of the black metal towers, it's now a -- it's a niche han (sic) that looks like wood grain. So that's the difference in -- it's either going to be "Home of the Whopper" or "Grilling Since 1951", either one of those signs depending on which the franchisee wants. So hopefully City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 42 of 54 August 30, 2016 we can have a condition that either one is approved. Sometimes they switch at the last moment, but it's still the same square footage. Henzi: Okay. Any questions for the Petitioners? Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Couple things. We've actually got two similar petitions in here today. One has four signs and one has three signs, and sizes are different. Tell me why -- which one's the standard package? J. Pastor: Well, the standard package is signs, but the difference is being is your setback, where you can be able to see the signs, or you're not able to see the signs. And that's the differences between the two. If you don't have a vision -- either these are both facing north. So if you can't see the signs from the -- going towards the southeast and west, then they don't usually put it on there. The size variances, depending on wide the towers are. You have two building styles here. You have the original building style that Burger King came out with. The is store -- the one that's on Plymouth and Inkster was built back in probably 68-ish. So that was a rectangular building. So that's going to have a little bit different amount of signs than the one that's on Wayne and Plymouth, which you're able to see. It's a longer narrower style building, which is a BK50. I don't know if that means anything, but that's the style that it was. Coppola: On one of the side elevations, you got a dotted line rectangle. On a similar -- on a similar -- I guess on the next petition actually has an arrow that says merchandising. Are you planning on putting on additional wall signs? J. Pastor: No. With the merchandising one -- if you're -- depending on which one you're on. Coppola: I'm on -- I'm looking at this one here, and there's a -- there's a dotted line -- J. Pastor: Right. The merchandising one that's a typical Burger King -- what they do is they'll show a Whopper sandwich combo meal or something like that. That's what a merchandising is. It's just a temporary thing that changes often, but the size doesn't. It's not electric. It's not -- Coppola: Mr. Fisher, does that -- does that require additional approval? Fisher: When you say it's not an electronic, what is it? Is it like slide a piece of paper in there? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 43 of 54 August 30, 2016 J. Pastor: Yeah. It's like a poster. Fisher: Okay. So no. There's no special rule for that. Coppola: That's not considered a sign? Fisher: You're asking if that's a sign? Coppola: Yeah. Is it considered a sign? Fisher: Anything you can see -- anything like this you can see from the street is considered a sign. Coppola: So -- I guess was this - was this square footage included in -- in your proposal? J. Pastor: I don't believe so. This actually is not seen from the road. That's actually seen when you're in the drive-thru lane because it's so low. You wouldn't be able to see that actually. Fisher: Yeah, that's actually been the Inspection guys who write up what you see -- the numbers that you see here, that's not a function of the petitioner. They determine what was a sign and what wasn't, and what it's size was. Coppola: It's on now -- I think it's the last page -- the side elevation. There's a dotted line, rectangle on the drive-thru side. J. Pastor: Yeah. It's on the drive-thru elevation. Fisher: Yeah, how big is that? J. Pastor: There's probably anywhere from two and a half to five feet maybe. Fisher: Five feet by? J. Pastor: Two and a half I would think. Fisher: Oh two and a half by five? Fisher: So it's like twelve -foot total square footage? J. Pastor: Yeah, something like that. Fisher: Okay. So I don't -- I guess I don't know for sure whether Randy wrote that up as a sign, but I think the size is incidental. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 44 of 54 August 30, 2016 Coppola: They already got -- they've already got the four signs here. They've got three Burger King -- J. Pastor: The buttons. They consider those button signs, and then they're -- right. Coppola: -- the buttons, and then you got the huge "Home of the Whopper" on the one door. Fisher: Yeah. No I think he -- I think he must have made the call. I didn't ask him about this, but I think he must have made the call and that was incidental and not visible to the street. This points east, right? J. Pastor: Yeah. Fisher: It doesn't face the street. J. Pastor: Right. It doesn't face street. It actually faces the donut shop. Henzi: I know Sonic had them, but I don't remember -- Coppola: We approved those, though. Henzi: I don't remember if we called them a sign, or part of the menu board. Coppola: No, we approved those separately. I'm almost -- almost -- I'm not absolutely certain, but I'm almost certain that we approved those as a sign. Fisher: Yeah -- Henzi: It might have been different in that it wasn't sited on the paper. I don't know Coppola: I don't know. J. Pastor: I think you -- I think -- if I might add. I think we did consider them signage at that time -- and -- well -- let me rephrase that. I don't know if we did or didn't, but we combined it as approval part of the package -- so. Fisher: Right. J. Pastor: So I don't think ever came up that it was a sign or not. It was just approved and stuff, and the comment was, can you see it from the street -- and all that stuff. Just like you're saying tonight, and I don't believe that this -- this one for sure, you're not going to be able to see from the street. It is not lit. It's probably changed once every three months -- you know -- with a different message, and it's basically for the drive-thru City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 45 of 54 August 30, 2016 window. People going up there and hopefully enticing us more slender people into that extra apple pie or extra big meal. Neville: Fries. Fisher: Well, and I think to the extent that this is inconsistent from what we did at Sonic, we're doing it right this time, as opposed to that time. Coppola: Okay. J. Pastor: What he said. Legally speaking I might add. Henzi: Any questions for the Petitioners? Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: Yeah, generally on these designs that I've seen like this, some of the buildings carry like this "Home of the Whopper" signs, some don't. Is that an optional piece of this package? J. Pastor: No. The only reason the "Home of the Whopper' got that -- that's a sacred thing. Baringhaus: I know it's iconic. J. Pastor: If one doesn't have it, some city must not have allowed them, and that I just cannot imagine any Burger King without "Home of the Whopper", or "Grilling Since 1951" are the only two that they allow. Baringhaus: Thank you. J. Pastor: Now, where before it was just Burger King. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Coppola: How -- how -- so I have a little bit of difficulty because I had to do it by -- by math and subtraction and that wasn't always my strong suit. How large are requesting that "Home of the Whopper" sign be? I didn't recall seeing the size anywhere. J. Pastor: "Home of the Whopper' is -- if this is right, it's 27.78 square feet. Coppola: Twenty-seven point what? City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 46 of 54 August 30, 2016 J. Pastor: Seven -eight -- it's twenty-three nine by about a foot. They range anywhere from twelve to fourteen inches, I believe. Henzi: Anything else? There's no one in the audience. Are there letters? Baringhaus: No letters. Henzi: Gentleman, anything you want to say in closing. J. Pastor: I just appreciate the time, and looking for your approval and any waivers or anything like that for time frame, we'd appreciate it. Henzi: I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Yeah, I'm generally in support of this. I'm not a -- a big fan of the lettering, "Home of the Whopper", and I understand that that's standard package. I think it's a little overdone, but that's my opinion. Generally, I'm in support. I always like to see the franchisee spend some money on their facilities, update it. It makes the area look nicer, and hopefully it actually increases sales for you too. So I'll -- I'll be in support as presented. Henzi: Mr. Klisz. Klisz: I agree. I think the Seven and Middlebelt one has been redone. It looks nice, and it should be consistent throughout the city. If they're redoing them, that's a good thing. I know those -- those two particular stores are pretty old, and rundown, and what now. And again, the Council and Planning has gone through this and approved -- you know -- bigger things than that we're looking at. So with that being said, I'd be in support. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I agree. I also think that this location as opposed to the other one is its visibility is even worse -- not as good as the one further down on Plymouth. So I'm in full support of the package as presented for the request of the variance. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: Yeah, I'll also support this. I don't know if part of the reason for -- for adding a fourth sign, but this is -- that intersection at Plymouth and Wayne is a really busy one with a lot turns, and I think that makes sense to have an additional sign there. If that was the reason, if not then I think package as whole looks good, and I would support it anyway. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 47 of 54 August 30, 2016 Baringhaus: It updates the design of the building. It updates the appearance of the area in general. I'll support. Henzi: I, too, will support it, and I did find a note about the merchandising -- graphic notes. It's on the plan. It certainly wasn't kept a secret by the Petitioner. I -- I think it's going to look really nice. So floor's open for motion. Neville: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Upon Motion by Neville and supported by Baringhaus, it was: RESOLVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-62: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Eym King of Michigan, LLC, 2730 N. Stemmons Fwy., Ste. 908, Dallas, TX 75207, on behalf of Lessee Burger King, 34835 Plymouth, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect four (4) wall signs, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Allowed: One Proposed: Four Excess: Three Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 41 sq. ft. Proposed: 119 sq. ft. Excess: 78 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Plymouth (34835), between Laurel and Wayne, Lot. No. 130-01-0009-004, C-1 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met because of the layout of this particular lot, the depth and traffic configuration along Plymouth Road. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner for those same reasons. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because it helps to upgrade and improve that location. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 48 of 54 August 30, 2016 4. The Board received zero letters of approval and zero objection letters from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "General Commercial" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the 5 day waiting period to obtain the permit be waived. 2. That the proposed signs be designed as presented. 3. That the site comply with all conditions set down by the Planning Commission and City Council. AYES: Neville, Schepis, Klisz, Coppola, Baringhaus, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: Granted with those three conditions, including waiver of the five day wait period. J. Pastor: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 49 of 54 August 30, 2016 APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-63: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Eym King of Michigan, LLC, 2730 N. Stemmons Fwy., Ste. 908, Dallas, TX 75207, on behalf of Lessee Burger King, 28203 Plymouth, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect three (3) wall signs, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Allowed: One Proposed: Three Excess: Two Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 55 sq. ft. Proposed: 68 sq. ft. Excess: 13 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Plymouth (28203), between Deering and Harrison, Lot. No. 141-99-0007-000, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts." Henzi: Mr. Banko, anything to add to this case? Banko: I've got nothing to add, Mr. Chair. Henzi: Any questions for the Inspection Department? Can you state your names one more time? J. Pastor: Thank you, John Pastor from George H. Pastor & Sons, 34018 Beacon, Livonia, Michigan, here to represent Burger King Corporation and EYM of Michigan. Henzi: Okay. Very similar. J. Pastor: Very similar. The only thing at that -- I don't know if we're able to do this or not because I really believe this one is a tougher site to actually see on the drive-thru side and stuff. As you can see, when they submitted this originally, they didn't think they could get it. I would ask to throw that into consideration to put another button sign on the drive- thru and raise that height up a little bit just to get that -- coming from -- coming from the east going to the west because of how far set back -- the building is back -- to try and catch some of those people, but if not, the petition as presented. Henzi: So button on three sides? J. Pastor: Just like the last petition. It should have been the same. I don't know why it wasn't like this, but it is what it is here. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 50 of 54 August 30, 2016 Fisher: Mr. Chair, if we do that, we've got to do this in another meeting because we're going to have to revise the notice. J. Pastor: Then don't do it. Henzi: I guess you can ask again later. If you're itching to get working, then let's just continue. J. Pastor: If I may, Mr. Chairman, it is because it's getting closer to the winter months and all that stuff. This is what the time we need to get going on construction. So we have to do our meeting, and of course, nobody wants to pay for that. Not that financial is a burden in the ZBA community. Henzi: Okay. Any questions. Seeing nobody in the audience, is there letters. Baringhaus: No letters. Henzi: Anything you want to say in closing? J. Pastor: I just appreciate the Board's time in taking this petition before you tonight. Henzi: Okay. Thank you. I'll close the public portion of the case, and begin the Board's comments with Mr. Klisz. Klisz: No different, really. Same thing. Good to see they're getting upgraded, and I'd be in support. Henzi: Mr. Neville. Neville: I agree. I'm in support of the request of the variances. Henzi: Mr. Schepis. Schepis: I agree. I'm also in support of this as presented. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Baringhaus: I agree. I'm in support. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: Support. Henzi: I, too, will support it, and I want this in the minutes, which I will read. I wouldn't mind the fourth sign, so if they do come back. I think it would look uniform. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 51 of 54 August 30, 2016 J. Pastor: I will -- Henzi: So floor's open for motion. Baringhaus: Mr. Chairman. Henzi: Mr. Baringhaus. Upon Motion by Baringhaus and supported by Klisz, it was: RESLOVED: APPEAL CASE NO. 2016-08-63: An appeal has been made to the Zoning Board of Appeals by Eym King of Michigan, LLC, 2730 N. Stemmons Fwy., Ste. 908, Dallas, TX 75207, on behalf of Lessee Burger King, 28203 Plymouth, Livonia, MI 48150, seeking to erect three (3) wall signs, resulting in excess number of wall signs and wall sign area. Number of Wall Signs: Allowed: One Proposed: Three Excess: Two Wall Sign Area: Allowed: 55 sq. ft. Proposed: 68 sq. ft. Excess: 13 sq. ft. The property is located on the South side of Plymouth (28203), between Deering and Harrison, Lot. No. 141-99-0007-000, C-2 Zoning District. Rejected by the Inspection Department under Zoning Ordinance 543, Section 18.50H(a),2, "Sign Regulations in C- 1, C-2, C-3 and C-4 Districts," be granted for the following reasons and findings of fact: 1. The uniqueness requirement is met due to the restrictive location. 2. Denial of the variance would have severe consequences for the Petitioner because it would reduce the ability of prospective customers to identify the business and would prevent the site from complying with corporate sign requirements. 3. The variance is fair in light of its effect on neighboring properties and in the spirit of the Zoning Ordinance because of the lots in the area being the same size. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 52 of 54 August 30, 2016 4. The Board received one letter of approval and one objection letter from neighboring property owners. 5. The property is classified as "low density residential" in the Master Plan and the proposed variance is not inconsistent with that classification. FURTHER, This variance is granted with the following conditions: 1. That the 5 day waiting period to obtain the permit be waived. 2. That the proposed structure be built as described. 3. That the Petitioner comply with all conditions set out by the Planning Commission and City Council. AYES: Neville, Schepis, Klisz, Coppola, Baringhaus, Henzi NAYS: None ABSENT: Pastor Henzi: Good luck. J. Pastor: Thank you. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to approve the Minutes date July 12, 2016 and July 26, 2016. Henzi: Is there a support. Pastor: Support. Henzi: Support by Mr. Pastor. All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Coppola: Mr. Chair. Henzi: Mr. Coppola. Coppola: I move to adjourn. City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 53 of 54 August 30, 2016 Pastor: Support. Henzi: Support by everyone. All in favor say aye. Board Members: Aye. Henzi: We're adjourned. There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m. Matt Henzi, Chairman Jim Baringhaus, Secretary I/:fTi1 City of Livonia, Zoning Board of Appeals Page 54 of 54 August 30, 2016