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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1993-10-12 13064 MINUTES OF THE 672nd REGULAR MEETING AND PUBLIC HEARINGS HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, October 12, 1993, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 672nd Regular Meeting and Public Hearings in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. , with approximately 20 interested persons in the audience. Members present: Jack Engebretson R. Lee Morrow James C. McCann Brenda Lee Fandrei William LaPine Raymond W. Tent Robert Alanskas Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director; H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning Director; and Scott Miller, Planner I, were also present. Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating petition. Planning Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their filing and siker Commission been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing tonight. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 93-9-2-23 by Home Quarters of Michigan, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service restaurant in an existing building located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Schoolcraft and Plymouth Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 25. Mr. Miller presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Nagy: We have received a letter from the Engineering Department stating they have no objections to this waiver use request. We have also received a letter from the Ordinance Enforcement Division stating no deficiencies or problems were found. We have received a letter from the Fire Marshal's office stating they have no objection to this proposal. However, the plans received provide insufficient information as to the location and type of cooking appliances, hood and duct construction, and suppression system. In a follow up letter they say their office has reviewed additional plans submitted and have no objection to this proposal. Lastly, we have received a letter from the Traffic Bureau stating their department has no objection to the plan as submitted. o.. 13065 Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come forward and tell us why you are making this request. Charles Tangora, 33300 Five Mile Road, Livonia: I represent the petitioner, Home `. Quarters. First I would like to thank the Chairman for moving this hearing up. The petitioner absolutely appreciates it. They have a grand opening coming up in a few short weeks and it was very necessary that we have an early hearing. We really appreciate that you set us on this agenda for tonight. The petition is a waiver use for a limited service restaurant. I know you have reviewed the plans. It is really a snack bar with four tables and four chairs. It has a very limited menu consisting of hot dogs, barbecue beef sandwich, chili, things of that nature. That is about the limit. It is strictly used for the customers of Home Quarters and it should have been on the original plans but it was overlooked so we have to come back at a later date and seek your approval. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Tangora, I will inquire about what kind of signage there might be on the exterior of the building, either on the walls or within the parking lot, cart corrals, places like that. Do you have any such plans? Mr. Tangora: I am not aware of any. This is Mr. Moffett from Heckingers. Mr. Moffett: I am not aware of any signs that would promote specifically the snack bar other than our already approved signs, which would be the monument sign and building signs. Mr. Engebretson: Thank you sir. It wasn't meant to be a trick question. It was to simply get on the table the matter of the fact that the ordinance really prohibits that kind of signage but there have been some instances in the past where that hasn't been clearly understood and we just want to avoid getting into any kind of misunderstanding. If you just said no you didn't have any plans, we still would have made the comment to make you aware so that is why we brought it up. Mr. Moffett: I understand. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Tangora, you indicated it was an oversight. Just for my information, is this something new for Home Quarters or is it pretty much on an every store basis and for some reason the architect or whoever did it just fell on hard times? Mr. Tangora: That is what I understand that the plans that were submitted here should have had it. It was overlooked but all the other Home Quarter stores that are being built in the metropolitan area have the snack bar and they are part of the plans. Mr. Morrow: Then it would appear it would be for the convenience of the shoppers within the store as opposed to trying to draw from the surrounding area. Mr. Tangora: Absolutely. Such a limited menu, it is just something for the in store shoppers. `\r 13066 Mr. Alanskas: With this snack bar, do your customers eat on the way out or do they grab something and go down the aisles and eat as far as dropping refuse on the floor? Would you happen to know that? Mr. Tangora: From what I know they have the tables and chairs there and they try to keep it within that area. I know sometimes it may not be possible. People may take potato chips and stuff like that out of the snack area. It is like a patio effect. These tables have umbrellas like you see on a patio and hopefully that is going to entice them to stay in that area. There was no one present wishing to be heard regarding this item and Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the public hearing on Petition 93-9-2-23 closed. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Fandrei and seconded by Mr. Tent, it was #10-188-93 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on October 12, 1993 on Petition 93-9-2-23 by Home Quarters of Michigan, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service restaurant in an existing building located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Schoolcraft and Plymouth Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 25, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 93-9-2-23 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1) That the total number of customer seats in the proposed limited service restaurant shall not exceed 16 seats. 2) That there shall be no signage erected on the exterior of the `. building or anywhere on the site advertising the proposed limited service restaurant. for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance ;543. 2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use. 3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance x/543, as amended. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Tent, McCann, Alanskas, Engebretson, Morrow, Fandrei NAYS: LaPine ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing ``' resolution adopted. 13067 On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent and seconded by Mr. Alanskas, it was #10-189-93 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to waive the provisions of Section 10 of Article VI of the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure requesting the seven day period concerning effectiveness of Planning Commission resolutions in connection with Petition 93-9-2-23 by Home Quarters of Michigan, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service restaurant in an existing building located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Schoolcraft and Plymouth Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 25. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Tent, McCann, Alanskas, Engebretson, Morrow, Fandrei NAYS: LaPine ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Tangora, I want to do something I have never done since I have been here. I am going to take a point of personal privilege and recognize and congratulate you for having been honored by approximately 1,000 people at the Laurel Manor Banquet Hall of Livonia Columbus Day dinner on Sunday. It was an honor greatly deserved and one that I enjoyed watching bestowed upon you, and in addition to that I came to learn that you are the newly elected and newly installed President of that club for the coming year. For both of those honors I would like to personally congratulate you. Mr. Tangora: Thank you very much. Mr. Engebretson: That closes the public hearing portion of our agenda. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 93-8-1-12 by Tri-West Development Corp. requesting to rezone property located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Bainbridge Avenue and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23 from RUFA to R-l. Mr. Engebretson: This item was a matter that we first heard at a public hearing on September 28th. It was tabled for additional study and redefinition so I need a motion to remove it from the table. On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously approved, it was #10-190-93 RESOLVED that, Petition 93-8-1-12 by Tri-West Development Corp. requesting to rezone property located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Bainbridge Avenue and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23 from RUFA to R-1 be taken from the table. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. 13068 Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, I understand that we have some new developments in this matter. Mr. Nagy: Our office on this date received three letters from adjoining or Stn• contiguous property owners indicating that they now wish to join in this rezoning proposal and provide for their property also to be rezoned to R-1 in connection with the proposed development by Tri-West. As a result of that expansion in the area under petition, it will necessitate a new public hearing, new notification to the surrounding residents of the area, and posting of the property. For that reason we will have to schedule this for an additional hearing. You may wish to pursue it to some extent with the petitioner. I just wish to indicate to you and to the audience that we will have to have another public hearing on this matter. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, will this constitute an amendment to this petition or will it come as a new petition, this revision that you are referring to? Mr. Nagy: It will be an amendment to this petition. They are joining with Tri-West in this rezoning proposal. Mr. Engebretson: So the public record that has been established to this point, that body of information will remain intact even though some of it may not necessarily be pertinent anymore. Is that correct? Mr. Nagy: That is correct. Mrs. Fandrei: Mr. Nagy, does the petitioner realize that this is going to slow him down? Mr. Nagy: He is fully aware of that. We advised him of that. Mrs. Fandrei: Do you know why the neighbors are requesting this? Mr. Nagy: I think they want to sell their property to this developer. Mrs. Fandrei: Now this is properties with homes on them? Mr. Nagy: It would be the undeveloped portions. The rear lot areas. I think the petitioner indicated to the Commission at the initial public hearing that they had approached some of the neighbors to acquire some of their rear property area because of the extreme depth of some of those lots. Mr. Tent: Mr. Nagy, how many lots are we talking about? Mr. Nagy: I have not seen a development plan on this revised site area. Mr. Tent: It will be the same petitioner? Mr. Nagy: Yes. Mr. Tent: How long do you think it will take for us to amend the revised ,.� petition? 13069 Mr. Nagy: I think about a month. We will try to get it on our November public hearing. Mr. Tent: Then it will just be a continuation of what we have here now? In other words, they will just continue their platting? Mr. Nagy: Correct. Mr. Engebretson: Then I guess I would just simply like to mention that for those neighbors that are interested, the area at the corner of Flamingo and Hoy has been now designated as two lots. I don't know if that is going to change with this revision. They tell me it will stay the same. That was a significant concession by the developer and a significant improvement thanks to Mr. Nagy having resolved a sticky issue there. If there is no one in the audience that is interested in this item that would be troubled if we were to table this item again until we can re-advertise and bring it out at our next public hearing, we will not get into the details tonight because getting into those details tonight may prove to be irrelevant if any of these sales should happen to fail. On the other hand if there is anyone in the audience that does want to be heard tonight, if there are no objections, they will have the opportunity to do that. Mr. Morrow: For a point of clarification on my part, it would appear that the petition we have before us is moot at this time and that we are going to have a new public hearing on the zoning that perhaps will cause their thinking, as far as lots, to change. In my mind there is no further action required on this petition if they are going to come back with a new public hearing. 'to , Mr. Engebretson: I think you are right except for the fact that it will come under the same petition number so I think the right action would be to leave it on the table. Mr. Morrow: That is what I am asking. Will it be a new petition or an amended petition? Mr. Nagy: It will be an amended petition. Mr. McCann: At this point I think it would be counterproductive to try and go into it or discuss it with the audience at this point since we don't have the new petition before us. We could create more problems than could be there. I would rather have the final petition before us before we start discussing it in any depth whatsoever. I suppose since I was one of the movers that we could, do you want to move to put it back on the table or rescind the previous action. Mr. Nagy: Remove it from the table and direct us to re-advertise. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously approved, it was 13070 #10-191-93 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on September 28, 1993 on Petition 93-8-1-12 by Tri-West Development Corp. requesting to rezone property located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Bainbridge Avenue and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23 from RUFA to R-1, the City Planning Commission does hereby direct the City Planning Department to re-advertise amended Petition 93-8-1-12 for the purpose of holding a new public hearing on said Petition. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is letter dated August 31, 1993 from Modern Moving Company requesting permission to amend Petition 93-2-2-7 by Al Rice requesting waiver use approval for outdoor parking of moving and storage trucks on property located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman Road and Osmus Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 3, to also allow marked vehicles with the Ryder Truck Rental logo. Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner present? You were going to take care of some issues? You were going to remove a sign and a boat and some things like that? Mr. Rice: Yes we had the sign removed and the boat is going out this weekend. (41m. Mr. Engebretson: The proposal here is to amend an approved waiver use having to do with outside storage of moving and storage trucks to more specifically now include four Ryder rental trucks not to exceed 24 feet in length. Is that basically a fair statement? Mr. Rice: Correct. Mr. Engebretson: Is there anything you want to add to that sir? Mr. Rice: No. Mr. Morrow: I missed part of the study session. As I recall the parking spots along the fence that goes along Eight Mile Road were to be for customer parking as opposed to truck parking. Was that correct? Mr. Engebretson: I am not sure that I recall that detail. Mr. Morrow: Does it not preclude trucks from being parked along the fence? Mr. Nagy: It does not. They were allowed to have parking perpendicular to the west property line along that fence all the way down to the storage area. Mr. Morrow: I am talking about the north property line. Mr. Nagy: The Eight Mile Road right-of-way moving south along the west fence. 13071 Mr. Morrow: But not east along the fence? Mr. Nagy: Not east along the fence. Mr. Shane: The designated area on the site plan did not include Eight Mile 'Norm• frontage. Mr. Morrow: Right but that is where they are currently parking the Ryder trucks. That is the point I am trying to make. There was not to be any truck parking along the Eight Mile Road line as opposed to going south along the property line. Mr. Engebretson: I recall it that way too Mr. Morrow that the truck bays that were lined up were all parallel to Eight Mile Road and I have also observed that the trucks are parked just helter skelter in there. Is that the way you plan to operate sir, leave those trucks up front or are you going to put them in a line that you indicated originally? Mr. Rice: Originally when we laid out the layout for the trucks we tried to make it accommodating for traffic in and out to be the most accommodating for the people coming in and the customers. What happens a lot of times when someone returns a truck, they will park it up front and it sits there and then we turn them around and move it. When most people come in, they park right next to the building where the original parking was and then they pull in the lot and swing around and park off to the side. Mr. Engebretson: So it would be your normal intent if a customer would do that, that you would move the vehicle. `v Mr. Rice: Yes we usually move the vehicle into the corner or in a straight line alongside the west lot line. Mr. Engebretson: That is my recollection of what was approved for your outdoor storage of vehicles. We would hope that is the way it works. Mr. Morrow: The only comment I would make Mr. Chairman is I go by that several times a day and those trucks are constantly in that area. It is not like a customer has put them there and they subsequently move them. It appears to me that is their normal parking spot to gain the highest visibility on Eight Mile Road. That is my observation. It seems to be different than the petitioner's observation. That is the only comment I want to make. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Morrow, you know the trucks you are referring to that are parked at an angle. Are they the 24 footers? Mr. Morrow: They are the Ryder trucks. I don't know what their sizes are. Mr. LaPine: What is the size of those trucks that you have parked there most of the time? Mr. Rice: Those trucks are 15 footers. 13072 Mr. LaPine: The long one that was parked there the other day is a 24 footer? Mr. Rice: There could have been a 24 footer there. I don't know. Mr. Alanskas: You said you took the sign down. Is the sign going to stay down? Now Mr. Rice: Yes. As a matter of fact, we informed Ryder of it going down and we took it down and it will stay down. Mr. Alanskas: So if this petition is approved, you will not have a sign on the building. Mr. Rice: No we won't put a sign on the building. If we want additional signage, we will apply for a variance or a permit for a sign. Mr. Tent: Just to follow up on Mr. Morrow's question about the parking situation, could that be one of the conditions also that when the trucks are dropped off then they will be there for just a certain period of time until they are relocated to the proper position if that be the case, or Mr. Rice could agree to that. You are the one that brought it up about the parking situation and Mr. LaPine indicated too that they seem to park them out there for the advertisement because they are facing Eight Mile. If they would park where they are supposed to park and that would be the final resting place for them, then I could go along with the trucks being dropped off while someone waits to put them in their position but if they are going to be parked up along Eight Mile out of the designated area, I think that could create a problem and should be a condition. Nor Mr. Engebretson: I would observe Mr. Tent that the trucks that are parked up there like that on a regular basis are probably parked in violation of the approved waiver use that they were given earlier. I guess he could say he is going to pay better attention to that. I can understand that if I were to rent one of those trucks, if I were to return the truck I wouldn't want to back it into one of those spaces and I doubt that he would want me to but if he can get them in there in a reasonable amount of time. Right now they are parked out there at nice angles and I doubt if they were dropped off there by customers. They were positioned there by employees. Mr. Tent: If they would go ahead and do that, that is fine. If they don't, then we can issue our violations and let them take care of it. Mr. LaPine: At our study session the subject came up when did you get your lease with Ryder and if it was prior to when we heard this case, and I asked if you would bring in a copy of your lease. Did you bring the lease? Mr. Rice: Yes I did. (He showed the lease to Mr. LaPine) Mr. LaPine: January of 1993 was when you had your lease with Ryder? I know there was a truck there the other day from another moving company. Do you have moving companies bring in things and then you transfer things? 13073 Mr. Rice: Not usually. We have different trucks that we have that we bought from companies or agents. Mr. LaPine: It had a big "B" on the side of it. \r. Mr. Rice: If we can't afford a new truck, from time to time we will buy a used truck and then we eventually have it painted with our logo on it. Mr. LaPine: We gave you 18 trucks and now you have 4 Ryders so that leaves you 14 trucks but at this time you would never get 18 trucks on that property at one time anyways because you have so much wood back there and logs that have not been processed. How long will that be for all that wood? Mr. Rice: Well we are getting into that season now. We are processing and starting to pile them now for the season. As soon as that comes in we process that as fast as we possibly can. Mr. LaPine: Do people come in there to buy the wood or do people go out selling the wood? Mr. Rice: Most of that is a delivered type of service that we offer. We process it and deliver it to people. Mr. Alanskas: Mr. Rice, you said you had that contract since January 1. From January 1 until this evening, what percent of your business is the rental of Ryder Trucks, roughly? Mr. Rice: I really couldn't answer that. Mr. Alanskas: Let's put it this way, how many trucks do you rent a week? Mr. Rice: In the early part when we were renting trucks ourselves, we rented a certain percentage for our own consumption and then as far as the consumer. Mr. Alanskas: I mean as far as renting Ryder trucks to the public. Mr. Rice: We probably do between five and eight rentals a week. Mr. Alanskas: My point is if you were allowed to have a total of 18 trucks and 4 Ryders and it has only been a ten-month venture with Ryder, if you start getting busier and busier, you will be having more and more trucks brought back to that facility. Mr. Rice: When the trucks come back to us, we don't actually have the control when the trucks come in. The main office will rent a truck, say you were in Florida and moving to Michigan, they would tell you where they wanted you to drop the truck and if they drop the truck at my location and I had too many trucks, what my dispatcher would do is have us deliver the trucks someplace or they would have someone come and pick it up. 13074 Mr. Alanskas: My concern is if you would have 18 of your trucks there now and your business with Ryder grows and you have ten in one day, then you have 28 trucks sitting there. Mr. Rice: Originally when we came to the Council we came up with that number. `r It wasn't a number that we just picked out of the sky, it was a number that we brought up originally and it was the number you allowed us to have. Mr. Alanskas: Correct because with the size of your lot you couldn't have more than 18 trucks in there in the first place. I am just concerned if you have 15 or 20 or 30 at one time, you have a problem. Mr. Rice: That shouldn't happen. Mr. Morrow: I don't recall under the original petition any discussion about Ryder trucks being stored there. If my memory serves me correctly, your agreement with Ryder was in January of 1993 and your petition was somewhere around February or March of 1993 but yet Ryder never came out in the discussion. Mr. Rice: What happened with that, again that was an oversight on my part. When I signed for the variance waiver, I had trucks in the lot and when the lot was looked at I just took it for granted that they saw the trucks there and nobody mentioned anything about the Ryders and the Ryder issue didn't come up. Mr. Morrow: I remember the Modern but I don't remember the Ryder. Mr. Rice: Right and it didn't come up about the Ryder issue at the earlier `rrr meetings. Mr. Engebretson: I don't want to belabor the point sir but I was there at least four times in the original process and never saw a Ryder truck and now every time I go by there, there are two or three or four Ryder trucks. Mr. Rice: Well I did bring my Ryder rep with me and he can verify that there were Ryder trucks in there prior to January. What happens is you get peaks and lows in the truck business and when you are driving by at a certain time, you might not see anything and then you might see a whole bunch on Saturday night or Monday morning. It just depends on what the clientele happens to do. For two to three months during the summer, we probably had no trucks there at all because they weren't available and Ryder had a shortage of vehicles. Mr. Alanskas: One question I would like to put on the public record. Now you are selling propane, you are selling wood, you have your own moving/storage trucks and you have Ryder. Do you have any other plans in the future that you want to have any other business ventures at this place? Mr. Rice: No sir. 13075 Mr. Alanskas: Are you sure. Mr. Rice: Yes sir. On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas and seconded by Mrs. Fandrei, it was #10-192-93 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that condition number 2 of City Council Resolution #518-19 in connection with Petition 93-2-2-7 be modified as follows: (new language is underlined) 2) That the total number of trucks to be parked or stored on the subject site at any one time shall not exceed 18 trucks; provided however, that no more than four (4) such trucks may be affixed with the Ryder Truck Rental logo with the remaining trucks being affixed with the Modern Moving Co. logo; and provided further, that such Ryder Trucks shall not exceed 24 feet in length. and subject to the following condition: 1) That the Ryder Truck logo shall not be displayed anywhere on the premises. for the following reason: 1) That the adoption of the modified condition will not add to the intensity of the waiver use granted for the subject property. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: L. AYES: Tent, Fandrei, LaPine, Alanskas, McCann NAYS: Morrow, Engebretson ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the 671st Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on September 28, 1993. On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was #10-193-93 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 671st Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on September 28, 1993 are hereby approved. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 93-9-8-19 by Crestwood Lounge requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.42 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to install a satellite dish antenna to the rear elevation of the building located at 27885 Plymouth Road in Section 36. 13076 Mr. Miller: This is located on the south side of Plymouth Road between Deering and Inkster Roads. The petitioner is requesting to install a satellite dish to the rear elevation of their building, which faces the parking lot of the lounge. The satellite dish will be 10 feet `. in diameter and will be positioned on a 17 1/2 foot pole, which would render the satellite dish just over the top of the building. This facility also has an existing 10 foot satellite dish located towards the front of the building towards Plymouth Road. Mr. Engebretson: I see the petitioner is at the podium. Would you give us your name and address and make whatever comments are appropriate. Sam Bushamie, 27885 Plymouth Road: With me is Mr. Harbin of Satellite Services. Basically you know what I would like to do. I would like to erect a satellite dish, the purpose being to give our patrons, my customers, the variety of programs that they would like to see. Mr. Harbin: Also we have decreased the size of the dish to a 7 foot dish. Mr. Morrow: Do we now have two dishes on the bar? Mr. Engebretson: We will have if this is successful. There is one at the front and this is being proposed at the rear. Mr. Morrow: Then you want to have two now. Mr. Engebretson: Yes this is not to replace the one. Mr. Morrow: What is the need for two satellite dishes? I have never seen this before. Mr. Bushamie: It is unique. It is just to have that ability to give that individual that comes into the establishment if he requests a certain program when our cable is in use, our present satellite is in use, regular TV is in use, to be able to give that one individual the ability to watch the program of his choice. That is why we would like to have that second dish. Mr. Morrow: So you have multiple sets and you can pick up multiple stations? Mr. Bushamie: Right. Mr. Harbin: The dish now can only point at one satellite at a time. Mr. Engebretson: What color will this dish be if you are successful? Mr. Harbin: We can make it pretty much any color that you want. Mr. Engebretson: What color would make it the least noticeable in your professional opinion? Mr. Harbin: Probably a light gray. Mr. Engebretson: If we were to paint that dish a light gray, would it be possible to paint the existing dish a light gray also? ``. 13077 Mr. Harbin: Yes. Mr. Alanskas: To the petitioner, you said what you wanted to have the dish for. Now is that to get more additional business in the facility or just ``. for what you have there now? Mr. Bushamie: Not having two dishes in the past, it would hopefully increase the business and just hopefully satisfy my present customers. Mr. Alanskas: I' ll tell you why I asked because I have been by your place in the last week at various different hours and that facility is so packed with parking that they are even parking at the side. It is just jammed. I don't see how you could take care of any more business by putting in another dish, number one. Number two, you have a dish there now at the top of your building and just a few doors going east there is a motel and they have a satellite dish on top of their building and then we would have another one and that would be three right in a row on Plymouth Road. I know you said we could possibly screen those. At the study session you made the remark you couldn't put it on top of the roof because the roof is too weak, is that true? Mr. Bushamie: I believe it is. Yes I think the roof is too weak. Mr. Harbin: We also feel by putting it far to the back of the building, it won't be seen from Plymouth Road as much. Mr. Alanskas: So it is not that the roof is too weak, it is just you feel it is a better spot on the pole? Mr. Harbin: It would be a lot harder to see it. There is quite a bit of shrubbery along the back of the parking lot so there is really not a whole lot back there. Mr. Bushamie: It is at such an angle where he wants to put the dish that when you are driving down Plymouth Road it is going to be pretty difficult to see that satellite dish. Mr. Alanskas: My only concern is I could see if you were granted this, all of a sudden there would be maybe umpteen businesses in Livonia wanting to have another satellite dish. Mr. Bushamie: I don't think that would happen. Mr. Alanskas: We don't know that. It is an assumption. It could go either way. I, as one Commissioner, I really don't think two dishes are needed to keep that facility going because it looks like you are doing very well with one dish right now and from what you are saying that is true. Mr. Bushamie: Again, it is to satisfy that one individual that comes into my establishment to be able to give him that program that he would like to see whether it leads to additional business or not. 13078 Mr. Tent: To the petitioner, I was there today too. In fact, the last couple of days. I observed the parking situation that you do have around your building and I have to agree with my fellow Commissioner over here that I don't see how you can put any more people in there. They were parked across the yellow lines parallel to the building, 'glow and I looked at your parking lot and I could see that looks like it belongs in the war zone. What are you going to do with that? Do people really park there? I did see cars there but how do they get in and out? Mr. Bushamie: You mean because of the number of cars there? Mr. Tent: No, it isn't paved. There are potholes in there. There is no sense or reason to put a car. They are parked helter skelter all over. The only thing I want to compliment you on is your building. Did you just recently paint it? Mr. Bushamie: Yes. Mr. Tent: It looks very nice. Mr. Bushamie: Thank you. We are constantly doing improvements. Mr. Tent: Do you intend to do any improvements to the parking lot? Mr. Bushamie: If I owned the parking lot, believe me I would. Mr. Tent: Then you are saying you just lease the building? Mr. Bushamie: All the improvements I have made, I don't own the building, just the business. I have made over $100,000 worth of improvements in the last year. Mr. Tent: You couldn't squeeze in a few more to fix up that parking lot then? Mr. Bushamie: The parking lot would cost $30,000, at least. That is what has been told to me. It is not my building and it is not my property. Mr. Tent: The final question I have is we discussed screening if this petition were successful. Do you intend to screen the roof line? Mr. Bushamie: It would be no problem to us if a screen would be less of an eyesore or more of an improvement we would do it, but screening the existing dish, some of you gentlemen have been out and we have looked at it together, seems to be more of an eyesore but if you would like us to do it, we will do it. Mr. Tent: Let me go back to my second or third question about paving that parking lot. You have been at that location for how many years? Mr. Bushamie: Nine years. Mr. Tent: I am sure you are paying your rent on time and the people that own this property are pretty happy with your being there? 13079 Mr. Bushamie: Correct. Mr. Tent: How do they feel about that improvement that you need to continue your business at that location? He is the landlord and he can take care of that back parking lot and spruce it up. Would he be willing to do that? Have you ever discussed it with him? Mr. Bushamie: Knowing the owner, I just wouldn't even try to. Having talked about it in the past, it would take someone more than me to be able to get the present owner of the property to pave that lot. Mr. Tent: Here we have an opportunity to upgrade the property if we could, which I, as one Commissioner, would like to see happen because it is an eyesore back there. Mr. Bushamie: So would I. Mr. Engebretson: I would like to follow up on a couple of points made here regarding the screening issue. I agree with you that if that front dish were to be screened, it would most likely become more of a problem than the dish itself is but I think the point made earlier that there is some natural screening that exists as you come eastbound on Plymouth Road, the bank structure right across the street certainly will be screening the rear dish. It doesn't screen the front one as well as we would like but the rear dish wouldn't be very visible until you were right on top of it. You would have to be looking for it. If you were paying attention to where you are going I don't think you would see it. If your customers see it as they are coming in from the rear parking lot, that isn't any particular concern of mine. I think the issue of the precedent set by having a second dish erected does raise a legitimate concern. On the other hand I think that the issues that we deal with, whether this is approved or not, are almost always determined based on the aesthetic impact in the neighborhood. We are getting off in some other areas here tonight but most of the time we deal strictly with those aesthetic issues and I don't think that is necessarily much of an issue here in this particular case provided that both dishes were painted the gray color, which if this were approved I would ask that that be a condition of the approval. As you know Mr. LaPine and I visited your facility about noon on Saturday, it wasn't necessarily busy at that time, but it was my impression that your customers are kind of regulars. It was like a "Cheers" for that neighborhood. It seemed like everybody knew everybody and they certainly all knew you and you knew all of them by name. I am just wondering who are your customers and could you just give us a brief comment on who it is you serve and you want to provide all these television sets for? Mr. Bushamie: We are open seven days a week. Customers come from all over. They come from Southfield, Troy, Dearborn, downriver. They come from all over. During the week during lunch we cater to a lot of your business executives. Between 5:00, 6:00, 7:00, late at night, we cater just to people who come from all over. Just good people. Mr. Engebretson: Why would somebody track from downriver just to have a beer? I ti.. don't understand. 13080 Mr. Bushamie: At one point Crestwood Lounge was primarily known as the watering hole but we erected a sign on the side of the building, on which we were able to put up our food specials. Now to be able to sell a pound and a half whole live lobster for $7.50 is pretty remarkable. To be able to sell a 12 ounce New York strip steak with all the trimmings, sauteed mushrooms, chef's salad, baked potato, garlic bread and vegetables for $3.75 is pretty startling. To be able to sell a whole slab of baby back barbecued ribs for $4.75 is staggering. When I post this on the side of the building, it catches people's eyes. That little sign right there has made it possible for me to draw all these people in. Mr. Engebretson: Good answer. Mrs. Fandrei: You gentlemen missed it. I can tell you why they come from all over the state to go to his establishment. I have been there, outside once, inside once with my husband and driven by. I have given this a lot of scrutiny but when I went inside, it is just as sharp if not sharper on the inside. It is like a restaurant. It had a very nice atmosphere. It wasn't dark and dingy and smoky. The food is outstanding. We were impressed. I almost couldn't order because of the scantily-clad young woman that waited on me. For a woman to be faced with that, that is difficult. Mr. Bushamie: It being a sports lounge, the girls wear aerobic outfits. Sometimes they wear a two-piece outfit. Mrs. Fandrei: Beyond that, I was impressed Sam. It was a very nice establishment. You have done very well with it inside and out. Thinking and talking about your screening of the rooftop, I was concerned not just with the satellite dish but all of your rooftop was very obvious coming from the west. It fust kind of glared out. You were saying about your roof probably not being able to hold a second antenna, it probably wouldn't be able to hold the screening, would it? Mr. Harbin: The screening would probably be a little lighter than the mount. Mrs. Fandrei: I wouldn't mind seeing a compromise. Something not as high as your front dish because that would not be attractive to the building, but if you could cover part of it and some of the rooftop, I think that would make a difference. Mr. Harbin: The dish could be moved to the rear of the building. Mrs. Fandrei: Where though? That is my other question. Where Sam showed us on the back between the door and the two windows going east, you have pole mounted lights, you have electrical wires, etc. Mr. Harbin: The pole is actually going to be in the ground. Mrs. Fandrei: The pole for the satellite dish? Mr. Harbin: Right. Maybe six inches from the building. rte, 13081 Mrs. Fandrei: That I didn't understand. That makes more sense. Then you are also saying that if we approve this satellite dish with the condition that the back parking lot be surfaced, you don't think that would happen? `\. Mr. Bushamie: No it wouldn't. You have to understand. Mrs. Fandrei: I do. I understand you completely. I heard what you said but I had to ask just for the record and for our knowledge. He is not going to cooperate. The other thing, you are not talking about adding more TV's. You had three programs when we had a late lunch Monday. So you are saying you want to be able to add a fourth channel on the existing TV's that you have now? Mr. Bushamie: Yes. Mrs. Fandrei: You also can paint the existing satellite dish on the front which would help it not be so obvious. Mr. Harbin: I think a lighter gray. A lighter color. Black really does stick out. Mrs. Fandrei: It does. It sticks out like a sore thumb. The gray sounds good. As I was coming west from Inkster Road the background was the sky and I would agree with you that wouldn't be as obvious. I don't see that this is an absolute need for enhancing the business. Sam already has a tremendous business but I really don't have a major problem with it. Mr. Engebretson: Did I hear you say you could move the front dish to the rear also? Mr. Harbin: Yes. It would be the same thing on the other side. Mrs. Fandrei: That would be good. Mr. Engebretson: That would sure be an improvement. Mr. Harbin: It would definitely make both of them shielded more from Plymouth Road. Mr. Engebretson: John, would it be possible to tie that altogether or does that force him through this long process again? Mr. Nagy: You could make that a condition. Mr. LaPine: I don't think moving that dish from the roof, you would have to put it on the west side of the building. To me that is a residential area south of there and that dish would be seen up and down the road there. I think it should stay on the roof because it really can't be seen that well from Plymouth Road. Mrs. Fandrei: I wouldn't have a problem with that with it staying closer to the front, being painted and partially screened. Randy, how high a screening might we be talking? Not to totally screen that front *au. antenna but part of the rooftop? 13082 Mr. Harbin: Probably four or five feet. I can also cut the pole that it is on now and move it a little closer to the roof. Mrs. Fandrei: A little cooperation. That plus a little screening sounds good. Mr. LaPine: John, is there any pressure that the City can put on the owner of that property to do something about that parking lot? I don't know but I would assume that parcel back there that is being used for parking is a separate parcel because the gentleman told me and the Chairman that part of his lease agreement with the owner, he had to pave the parking lot. Well he paved the parking lot the building is on. That is why I assume the lot behind him is being used for parking at that facility. It seems there should be something we can do to put some pressure on him to get him to pave that because it is being used by the establishment he is renting. I don't know what that is zoned. It might be a residential lot for all I know. Mr. Nagy: I believe it is zoned for parking as well. We certainly can have our Inspection Department go out. On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine and seconded by Mrs. Fandrei, it was RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition 93-9-8-19 by Crestwood Lounge requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.42 of Zoning Ordinance ##543 in connection with a proposal to install a satellite dish antenna to the rear elevation of the building located at 27885 Plymouth Road in Section 36, subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan by Crestwood Lounge, received by the Livonia Planning Commission on 9/27/93, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; with the condition the size of the satellite dish shall be reduced to 7 feet. 2) That both satellite dishes shall be painted gray. 3) That the roof shall be screened to a height of at least four feet or that the satellite dish shall be removed from the roof and placed in the rear of the building. 4) That the storage of vehicles shall not be permitted and all such vehicles shall be removed; 5) That no permit shall be issued until each of the above conditions are met to the satisfaction of the City's Departments of Engineering and Inspection. for the following reason: 1) That the proposed satellite dish antenna location is such that it will have no detrimental aesthetic impact on the neighboring properties. Mr. McCann: To the owner of the bar, I like what you are doing with the location and I see what you are trying to do with this, but I have 13083 a problem with it. I just don't find there is an overwhelming need to have a second satellite dish. Cable provides several channels. You have the first satellite dish. We have numerous taverns in the City, numerous sport bars, and it sets up an example saying if one can do it, the others can do it and the City just can't afford to have that many satellite dishes. I am going to have to vote no against it and I wanted you to understand why. I think what you are trying to do is alright but I don't think it has compelling enough reason to set up a situation where we are going to allow two satellite dishes, possibly three per location. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Fandrei, LaPine, Engebretson NAYS: Tent, Morrow, Alanskas, McCann ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion failed. On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas and seconded by Mr. Morrow, it was #10-194-93 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby deny Petition 93-9-8-19 by Crestwood Lounge requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.42 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to install a satellite dish antenna to the rear elevation of the building located at 27885 Plymouth Road in Section 36 for the following reason: 1) That due to its size and location, this dish antenna would be detrimental to the aesthetic quality and beauty of the neighborhood by presenting a visual blight that could jeopardize the property values in the area as set forth in the comprehensive plan of the Zoning Ordinance. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Tent, Morrow, Alanskas, McCann NAYS: Fandrei, LaPine, Engebretson ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Bushamie: I would like to say what we are trying to do is somewhat progressive, something that would help the City of Livonia in some small way. Like I say we bring in people from all over. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Sign Permit Application by Jan Signs requesting approval for a ground sign for the property located at 28760 Plymouth Road in Section 25. Mr. Miller: This is located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Hartel and Middlebelt Road. They are proposing to erect a ground sign that will be 30 square feet. They were just recently granted a 13084 variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for unequal tenant distribution on the sign, it must be equal, and setback. They only have six foot setback and they need ten. So they have a variance for those two nonconformities. With the variance it is a conforming sign. It will be located on the left hand side as you ``w enter off Plymouth Road. Mr. Engebretson: I think we told the petitioner since this sign conformed that he didn't have to be present tonight. Mrs. Fandrei: Scott, I went by this several times and I find it hard to believe that there is room for this sign where that tree is setting. That tree seems to be in the way. Has anyone from the staff been out to look at this? Mr. Miller: I was out there. Mrs. Fandrei: And you see room for this sign? Mr. Miller: Yes. You have the other restaurant located next to it with their sign. It is going to be approximately the same distance from the sidewalk. Mrs. Fandrei: They are basically going to be blocking one another no matter which direction you come from, aren't they? Mr. Miller: That is why I think they want it there. If it were set back further, they would be losing more. Mrs. Fandrei: But this tree seems to be in the way. I just didn't see room for it. Did you measure it? Mr. Miller: No I didn't measure it. Mr. Engebretson: Brenda, did you measure it? Mrs. Fandrei: Just visually and it didn't look like it would fit to me. Mr. LaPine: Brenda, I didn't measure it either but when Jack and I were out there it looked to me like there is enough room to put that sign in. That was the first thing that came to me that this sign was going to be in almost the exact location as the Mimi's sign but it is far enough to the west where it will be visible, and I think there is enough room between that tree and the sidewalk to get that sign in. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Fandrei, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously approved, it was ##10-195-93 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Sign Permit Application by Jan Signs requesting approval for a ground sign for the property located at 28760 Plymouth Road in Section 25, be approved subject to the following conditions: 'a. 13085 1) That the Sign Package by Jan Signs, received by the Livonia Planning Commission on 9/29/93, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. 2) That the window signage shall not exceed 20% of the window area. '`. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Sign Permit Application by American Signs requesting approval for one wall sign for the building located at 11500 Middlebelt Road in Section 36. Mr. Miller: This is located on the corner of Plymouth Road and Middlebelt in the Livonia Crossroads Shopping Center. This unit is located next to the Family Buggy Restaurant. They are allowed to have a 50 square foot wall sign and they are asking for a 48 square foot wall sign so it is a conforming wall sign. Mr. Engebretson: Is the petitioner here? William Smiddy, 17220 Louise, Livonia: I represent Club Golf of Livonia at 3700 Telegraph Road, Suite 3674, Bingham Farms, MI 48025. I was asked to appear in front of the Commission to answer any concerns you might have about the type of business going into this location. We have applied for and been approved for building permits and also Certificate of Occupancy. If there are any questions, I will be more than happy to answer them for you. Mr. Engebretson: Are you one of the owners or are you an attorney representing `, them? Mr. Smiddy: No sir, I am one of the owners. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Tent, I think you were interested in the type of business, if I recall correctly. I think it was you. Mr. Tent: What is the function of this particular operation? Is it new to the area? Mr. Smiddy: Yes it is a new concept. It has been tried out west very successfully. There are a few places active now in Ohio. It is a training center for golfers. Mr. Tent: Is it a computerized operation? Mr. Smiddy: We do have computers. We have a simulator. We have another machine that is a computer swing analyzer. We will have hitting bays in the area. We have just closed a deal with Jim Ballard who is a teaching professional in Florida, who has taught some of the great golfers. We will send our instructors down to Florida to be taught by him so all our instructors will have the consistent training. It is a new technique. He gets rid of all the underlying garbage that a lot of the pro's try to teach. It is a 13086 basic swing and he utilizes your own body movements and he has been very successful. We have one store right now in Farmington Hills and we plan on opening the Livonia store on November 1st. Mr. Tent: Will you be selling memberships in the club? Oar. Mr. Smiddy: Yes it will be a membership based program. We will also be offering one-day passes so people can come in and see it but it will be a three-month, six-month membership program. Mr. Tent: So then you will set it up by appointments only? Mr. Smiddy: Yes sir. There will be walk-ins but only if it isn't being utilized by members. Mr. Tent: How many bays are you going to have? Mr. Smiddy: We are looking at approximately 15 bays right now. Mr. Tent: Will there be any coin-operated machinery in there? Mr. Smiddy: No sir. Mr. Tent: As far as the operation is concerned, this will be the first one in this area? Mr. Smiddy: Yes, as I mentioned earlier there is an existing store in Farmington Hills. He has been operating since June of last year. He is doing relatively well at his location. That is located at Orchard Lake and Fourteen Mile Road in Farmington Hills. We had `, another facility in Northville Township, where it was very successful but unfortunately we were unaware of some problems with the building owner and the problem with the City. The City and our organization work very well together. The Building Department, the City Council, the Planning Commission, we work very well together but we got into a situation with the property owner, I don't know if you are familiar with Seven Mile Road and Haggerty, Northville Plaza, but the property owner let the property just fall apart. The roof was leaking and we went in thinking we would be able to obtain more space. We weren't aware of the problems with the City so we ended up having to move. In fact that is what we are doing, relocating our existing membership to our Livonia store. Mr. Tent: How many members do you have? Mr. Smiddy: We have about 315 members at this point. Mr. Tent: At this location, you have a lease I am sure? Mr. Smiddy: Yes sir. Mr. Tent: For how long? Mr. Smiddy: It is a five-year lease. Mr. Tent: Which is renewable? 13087 Mr. Smiddy: Yes sir. Mrs. Fandrei: Seven Mile by Big Lots? A long time problem. Welcome to Livonia. Mr. Smiddy: I spent $6,000 on an awning out there that I just had to leave. fir. $35,000 in leasehold improvements. The building looked like a country club. It still does inside but I had to leave it. I couldn't do anything with it. Mrs. Fandrei: I am sorry you went through that but welcome to Livonia. Mr. Smiddy: Thank you. I enjoy Livonia. I have been here four years as a resident. Mr. Alanskas: Is this a seven day a week operation? Mr. Smiddy: We look at it as being seven days a week right now. Mr. Alanskas: What are the hours? Mr. Smiddy: The hours would be from 10:00 a.m. until 6:00 or 7:00 at night depending on the membership. It may fluctuate until 8:00 at night. Mr. Alanskas: Your sign will only be on during your hours of operation? Mr. Smiddy: Yes sir. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Tent raised the analogy to the health club type of environment and I was curious with these memberships that you will be selling and the memberships that you sold out at Northville, what will happen to those memberships in Northville now that that store has been closed? Mr. Smiddy: We will honor the memberships. Both stores will honor the Northville memberships so now they will be able to go to either the Farmington Hills location or the Livonia location. Mr. Engebretson: I am curious about the period of time from when you close the Northville store until the time you open the Livonia store, that period of months, will that be added on? Mr. Smiddy: The memberships will be extended for the period of time that we were down, which works out well for the members because most of them weren't utilizing it during the summer months anyways. It worked out quite well for them. Mr. Engebretson: You are talking to one that didn't work out well and I was a member of that club and that happens to be right between my house and the club where I play at, and I was planning to stop and utilize that in the summertime and I was disappointed to see that you found it necessary to close it down. Mr. Smiddy: We were very disappointed. We tried to work out everything we could with the building owner and it just got to a point where we couldn't stay in that building any longer. 13088 Mr. Engebretson: I can certainly give testimony to the fact that you did run a first-class operation there and I think that Northville's loss is certainly our gain and I would like to add my welcome to your business here in Livonia. oa"' Mr. LaPine: The sign will that go up on the mansard where the old sign used to be? Mr. Smiddy: Yes sir. It will conform with the other sign. Mr. Engebretson: Did you say when you plan to open? Mr. Smiddy: We are going to open November 1st if everything falls into place. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. LaPine and I were there over the weekend and we looked in and it looked like you were having a lot of equipment being moved into position and that you are well under way preparing for that opening. Mr. Smiddy: We are very close. On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved, it was #10-196-93 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Sign Permit Application by American Signs requesting approval for one wall sign for the building located at 11500 Middlebelt Road in Section 36, be approved subject to the following condition: 1) That the Sign Package by American Signs & Design, received by the `► Livonia Planning Commission on 9/28/93, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 672nd Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on October 12, 1993 was adjourned at 8:52 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION 11 9 James C. McCann, Secretary T: NC- 4'( i- Ll ATTES (� G �1 1 Jack Engebreton, C airman Jg