HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1993-09-14 12995
MINUTES OF THE 670th REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
LIVONIA
On Tuesday, September 14, 1993, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 670th Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive,
Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: Jack Engebretson R. Lee Morrow James C. McCann
Raymond W. Tent Robert Alanskas William LaPine
Members absent: Brenda Lee Fandrei
Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director; H. G. Shane, Assistant Planning Director,
and Scott Miller, Planner I, were also present.
Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the
question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is
denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City
Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the
only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating petition. Planning
Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are
adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their filing and
't4111. have been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The
Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing
tonight.
Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 93-7-2-16
by the Loyal Order of Moose #1317 requesting waiver use approval to
utilize a club license in conjunction with a proposed Moose Lodge to be
located on the south side of Plymouth Road between Middlebelt and Garden
Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 36.
Mr. Engebretson: This is a petition that had its public hearing back in July and
was tabled so technically we need a motion to remove it from the table.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously approved,
it was
#9-167-93 RESOLVED that, Petition 93-7-2-16 by the Loyal Order of Moose #1317
requesting waiver use approval to utilize a club license in conjunction
with a proposed Moose Lodge to be located on the south side of Plymouth
Road between Middlebelt and Garden Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of
Section 36 be taken from the table.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
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Mr. Engebretson: The petitioner's attorney is at the podium and we are going to
give him the first word.
Martin Testasecca, 33110 Grand River, Farmington: I am the attorney for the Moose.
`. In light of the study session that we had two weeks ago, we
modified the rendering to indicate the landscaping in a little more
attractive fashion and we have updated the site plan. I apologize
that the site plan is of such a small size but the cad computer was
unable to recreate that. It indicates where the various flower and
tree boxes are to be placed. In addition to what we had mentioned
two weeks ago, the owner of the building has rectified some things
that were of concern to you and we have painted the back walls, and
the flower boxes are in place. The landscaping, except for the
flowering crab apple trees, are in place. The rendering that is
before you indicates screening of the front air conditioning unit
with T-111. The trash receptacle has been put in place at the side
of the property. Other than that I will answer your immediate
questions.
Mr. Morrow: I think the Moose knows from the beginning our concern was not so
much with the club license they are looking for but trying to bring
the building up to speed. Since our study session, what has been
accomplished over there?
Mr. Testasecca: With regard to the exterior of the building?
Mr. Morrow: I mean progress on the building.
Mr. Testasecca: We have painted the back wall and have put in place all the
landscaping, flower and shrubbery boxes. The pole for the sign has
\"'w been removed and a flower box has been put on top of that cylinder.
Mr. Morrow: I guess the reason I asked is because I thought I would go over
there today and see a beehive of activity and I was kind of
disappointed because I didn't see a great amount of progress.
Maybe I was expecting too much. I am a little apprehensive to
continue to pursue this from the standpoint of we may very well get
all these things done on the building and then perhaps approve you
and then not have it done at a higher level because I am concerned
about the building. I don't see that much progress and I would be
less than candid if I didn't share that with you.
Mr. Testasecca: If I can be candid back, the building inspector from your City gave
us a preliminary punch list of concerns that had to take place on
the outside of the building. The Moose do not own that building as
it stands. The owner has attended to all of the concerns the City
has put before him and all those repairs have been completed. The
completion of this building will take place when we own this
building. We don't own the building. I am certainly not going to
advise my clients to proceed with their plans if we don't get an
approval of what we intend to do.
Mr. Morrow: I don't want to get into an extended debate but I see wood around
the building that is dry rotted and the building inspection items,
those are alright? The roof hasn't been re-roofed and they say
`o. that is alright?
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Mr. Testasecca: We plan on doing a number of things to the roof. It was your
concern that the roof in the corner be repaired and it was
repaired. We are going to have a sealant of a very light color put
on top of the whole roof but I am not going to advise my clients to
,,or. put anything on that roof until they own the building.
Mr. Morrow: Obviously we want both things to happen. We want the building to
come up to Livonia standards and we want the Moose to find a home
for their club. I am just sharing with you some of the concerns I
have. I see a certain amount of lethargy, at least in my
estimation. The other Commissioners might have some comments.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Alanskas: I have one question. On your rendering there on your west
elevation you are showing a door with no window but on your site
plan you are showing a window above the door. Which is it going to
be?
Mr. Testasecca: The rendering is correct. The site plan is wrong.
Mr. Alanskas: So what you are saying is the window will be covered over?
Mr. Testasecca: Yes.
Mr. Alanskas: I was out there Monday and I saw the repair job that you did on
that one part of the lower roof. You put like two pieces of
compressed board and there is like one screw holding that board and
it is still leaking.
Mr. Testasecca: Mr. Chairman, this is Sheldon Fuller, the owner of that building.
Sheldon Fuller, 4540 Walnut Lake Road, Bloomfield Hills: The roof itself was
completely repaired. We left it open for about four or five days
so it would dry out and then the bottom was then screwed into place.
Mr. Alanskas: Where the two butt together you have this long area that only had
one screw and they are not even level. One is down about half an
inch.
Mr. Fuller: Lower than the other one?
Mr. Alanskas: Yes.
Mr. Fuller: Maybe I went by it too quickly.
Mr. Alanskas: You could push the whole thing up so it is not secure at all.
Mr. Fuller: I will make sure it is secure. I didn't go out and push it around.
I looked at it and it appeared to be in good condition. There was
no water coming through it. The only water that I saw there, and I
was there when it was pouring rain, was on the metal outside which
was coming off the roof and down the side.
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Mr. Tent: I share Mr. Morrow's concerns. I was there today looking over the
facility and I was disappointed. I was sure there would be much
more progress. Mr. Testasecca you have indicated that the concerns
you are addressing were strictly the exterior of the property, not
,ft. the building itself, because you are not the owners of the building
at this particular time and the landlord here was addressing the
issues by the Inspection Department as far as the conditions of the
walls and the flower boxes and the pole sign. I'm glad you did
take the pole sign down. That is great. The flower boxes are in
place but still the landscaping, of course, is still ragged and
there are trees in front of the building and of course they have to
be removed and I understand that. My concern at this point is
financially does the Moose have the money to continue ahead with
the project?
Mr. Testasecca: Yes we do but I would like to take exception to that concern.
Mr. Tent: Well my concern is, as one of the Commissioners, I look around the
City of Livonia and if we were to give you the approval for this
project and then it couldn't materialize because financially you
couldn't even finish the building, we would have a building there
that is in dire need of repair. The landlord, in turn, would have
to go through another process. Because of no progress being made
there, I want to know what is the reason.
Mr. Testasecca: I first want a clarification from the Chairman here. We are
asking for an approval of plans to be done. Should we just go and
do all this and then come back for approval? We didn't do anything
because we are waiting for approval because this all has a bearing
on whether or not we are going to get that liquor license.
'tor
Mr. Engebretson: He asked a question and I want to give him an answer. It is real
important that you understand where we are coming from here. We
have indicated to you folks from the beginning that there is no
real opposition to recommending approval of the waiver use to this
particular petitioner. Our concern is to do two things: (a) take
advantage of this opportunity to spruce up a derelict building, I
think I can safely use that term, and make it presentable and a
building we would be proud of as members of the community and the
Moose would be proud of it as well; but secondly, to make sure that
all of this occurs whether it is the present property owner or the
Moose that makes these improvements because this waiver use, once
granted it is like changing the zoning, it extends the use of that
property, and while we have no concern with the proposed use, as I
have indicated before, we may have grave concerns of this project
falling apart and that waiver use being in effect for other
organizations that we may not be so favorably inclined toward. Now
back to your question. It seems to me there is some confusion here
as to who is going to do what and when and in what order. The
present property owner has committed to doing certain things in
respect to bringing that building up to code and within the
framework of the current ordinance requirements and some of that
has been done. Other things have been promised. On the other
hand it appears that the Moose, after receiving this waiver use, if
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I read it correctly, is going to proceed then with more major
renovations to include this T-111, the finalizing of the roof
repairs, the completed project as far as the exterior of the
building is concerned. What you do on the interior is of little
,,` concern to us. I think what brings us to this confusion as to what
should be done and in what order, should this whole building be
completely renovated before this waiver use is granted? Frankly I
don't think so because what if we recommend approval and we have
gotten the current property owner and the Moose Lodge to make all
these commitments and you move on to the big show, back in this
room with the City Council and they say no, then we have done a
grave disservice, not to the property owner necessarily because
that building, in my judgment, is one of the most derelict
buildings in the community, but it is moving toward being a
building that we would all be proud of and what you are proposing
to do, I think, would absolutely put it in that category. I think
I indicated to you before, as a member of the Livonia Roads
Beautification Committee, I would submit this property to the Mayor
as a candidate to receive proper recognition and award in next
year's go around in terms of the work that committee does. There
is a very long answer to a very simple question but we need, and
you need too, to keep in perspective what the sequence of events is
concerned here. Frankly, I am hoping we move this on tonight with
a recommendation one way or another. I think we have seen
significant progress and I personally, I can't speak for the
others, I think the purpose of the Commission is not to see an
absolute finished project for the reasons I have indicated to you
but now having put that in perspective, I think we probably would
like to have assurance from you or your client that if this moves
forward and if the property owner completes all the things he said
he would, and I have faith that he will, then you will do your part
and that you have the ability and the means to do the things that
you have committed to and assuming all that happens then
theoretically there is going to be a lot of activity down there
with a nice spruced up building.
Mr. Testasecca: I thank you for your comments. The only assurance I can give you
is that this plan is proceeding now at a pace that we are quite
happy with. The building they are currently in is going to be
razed sometime this fall. We have to leave the building. I have
no other choice but to hope that my assurance and the funds that we
have set aside for this project, it is in our budget, we have
gotten quotes and job plans from all kinds of people on the inside
as well as the outside because I have the whole Certificate of
Occupancy issue to deal with, and the owner is working with us and
we feel like we are at a grid lock with what to do first.
Mr. Engebretson: There is no grid lock.
Mr. Testasecca: I can't proceed. We did as much as we could do. An approval
here gets us to City Council and we are going to have a closing on
the property. There is a lot of activity daily and although quite
frankly neither of you gentlemen see much progress on the exterior
of the building, I can rest assured that I spent enough evenings
getting this to this point so some things can't be as visible as
others. I don't know what other assurance that you require.
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Mr. Engebretson: Let me just give you an example of cause we may have for having
some need to have some assurance that when we have asked for some
more detailed and more professional type presentation of what it is
you plan to do, our staff has been told that there are limited or
no funds available to do that sort of thing so then that gives rise
to concern as to whether or not the capability is there to deliver
the promises.
Mr. Testasecca: I don't believe, if I may turn to my committee, that we have ever
said that we didn't have enough funds. I will turn this over to
David Grumbache, Chairman of our Building Committee and member of
the Moose Lodge.
Mr. Grumbache: Mr. Chairman, on that issue, we indicated that we had a hard time
spending good money on a property that we did not currently own.
We first have to feel the intent of the seller, what he is going to
do, what he is going to fulfill. We had a hard time doing that for
a while and then we got our act together and he is currently
working with us. It was to a point I'm sorry but I couldn't spend
good money on something that is not mine. I would also like to
talk to Mr. Tent for a second.
Mr. Engebretson: Don't talk to Mr. Tent, talk to all of us.
Mr. Grumbache: The second issue that was brought up was do we have money
allocated? Yes we do. I can give you a figure if you want but you
have to understand that 90% of our labor is in house. We have
contractors of all trades. We have multiple people so the only
thing we are really spending on is mainly material. I have
approximately $25,000 set aside for material. That is a lot of
'41m'' material. It is not that I don't have the funds to do this but I
can't proceed until the owner gets his okay.
Mr. Engebretson: We understand. Thank you for sharing that. Now we will go back
to Mr. Tent.
Mr. Tent: Mr. Testasecca, where I am coming from and why I asked the question
I did, and I have been on this board quite a while, and I had a pet
saying when it came to developers "Promise them anything but give
them Arpege" and that is what they would do. The developers would
come forth and show us the most magnificent drawings, etc. This
is what they were going to build and when it came time for it to
materialize, guess what, it was downscaled and they couldn't afford
it and they couldn't go any further. I don't want to get trapped
like that again so that is why I asked the question do they have
the dollars to go ahead. I just don't want you to come back at
some later date and say we are broke and we can't do this so we are
going to put a lean-to up here in place. I am telling you that in
advance so you will know where I am coming from. I don't consider
this a little show, the Planning Commission. It is a big show and
when you go to Council that is a big show. We are just as
important as they are and you have to get through us first before
it gets there. Never will I go ahead and say that my decision is
not important at this point and I am going to punt to the other
13001
guys to make their decision and I want that to be known. That is
where I am coming from. I certainly wish you all the luck in the
world with your project because I want you to succeed but where I
was coming from is nothing was done on the outside of the building
and I wanted to know are we going ahead? The other question I have
now is when is your completion date for the project?
Mr. Testasecca: That is a good question. I think we are hopefully, with all the
approvals that we have to get because there is a Liquor Control
Commission issue here and I am anticipating that this job will be
completed by the end of October. Apparently 60 days from the date
of closing is the completion date so we have 60 days to get out
after we close on the building. So it will be 60 days from the
date of closing and we are anticipating getting the Certificate of
Occupancy for the interior in a couple of weeks so based on my
calculations it would put us in the middle of November.
Mr. Tent: That is all. I am not going to belabor this. I want you to know
where I am coming from and I don't want you to come back at some
later date and go downhill because if I am still here, I will bring
it up. I want you to succeed and I want you to be there. Best of
luck.
Mr. Testasecca: Hopefully this is the last time I have to come before you with
regard to this issue.
Mr. McCann: We talked about it earlier, we're getting new siding on the
north and west sides, we're getting a new roof. I want to make
sure the one-foot trim going around it, is that going to be
replaced or is that painted.
Mr. Grumbache: It is going to be painted.
Mr. Testasecca: There are boards at the corner that are rotting. We are going to
replace those.
Mr. McCann: There is a metal covering going around. It is about a one-foot
metal thing going all the way around the roof. It is dented,
banged. Some places it is bent out. Trucks have hit it. It is in
very bad disrepair. I have some concerns that if all you are going
to do is paint it, it is not going to end up with the look you have
on the board.
Mr. Testasecca: That will be repaired. We are not going to take the time to do
the siding without making sure it looks nice. I realize you have
to know that. That will all be repaired and all the corners
certainly that are damaged right now will be boxed and put in as
neat as possible condition if it means replacing those corners. I
believe it is aluminum on top of metal. I am not sure myself. It
will be repaired to the aesthetic beauty of the remainder of the
building.
Mr. McCann: The site plan shows new fascia board on the overhang.
13002
Mr. Testasecca: Yes there will be new fascia board around the surround of the roof
and it will be painted the darker brown color to show the fact that
there is trim there.
Mr. McCann: Right now it is metal surrounding and it will be replaced with wood
fascia board.
Mr. Testasecca: Yes.
Mr. LaPine: John, have we got anything on the record from the Inspection
Department that all these things have been taken care of?
Mr. Nagy: We do not have a status report from the Inspection Department.
Mr. LaPine: We do not and you say the Inspection Department told you that the
complaints we had have all been taken care of?
Mr. Testasecca: The Inspection Department gave us a list of things that were of
concern to the City and we addressed those seven items.
Mr. LaPine: Has the Inspection Department been out to give you approval on
those things?
Mr. Testasecca: No. That was just a letter I got from the City indicating what
areas of concern they had.
Mr. Nagy: Initially it was received and read into the public record and then
it was turned over to the petitioner to make those corrections and
that is what they are working on but there has been no field review
of that by the Inspection Department that they are satisfied.
Nitur
Mr. LaPine: That is what I want to get on the record because up to this point
we have nothing on the record that Inspection Department has said
everything is up to snuff?
Mr. Nagy: That is true.
Mr. Engebretson: That wouldn't happen unless we asked for it would it John?
Mr. Nagy: No.
Mr. LaPine: The next question I have, do you intend to occupy the building
before all the exterior renovations are done?
Mr. Testasecca: No. We are doing the exterior first and then the interior is going
to be worked on.
Mr. LaPine: All the exterior will be done before you get an occupancy permit?
Mr. Testasecca: Correct.
Mr. LaPine: You have indicated, if I understand right, that you don't want to
do any of this work until such time as you get the approval from us
and the Council. Then you buy the building, is that correct? When
*ft.
13003
are you going to make your application to the Liquor Control
Commission? What if you buy the building and the Liquor Control
Commission turns you down?
New Mr. Testasecca: That is what started this whole thing. We applied to the Liquor
Control Commission and they said we needed approval from the City
so we went to the City Council and they said you need a Waiver Use
approval from the Planning Commission.
Mr. LaPine: So if we pass you onto Council and they give you approval, then you
go to the Liquor Control Commission and until such time as they
give you an approval of the liquor license, you are not going to
buy that building until that time. Is that correct?
Mr. Testasecca: That was a contingency that we have lifted on our offer to purchase
that until such time, if we don't get a liquor license we cannot
occupy the building.
Mr. LaPine: That is what I am trying to get from you. Until such time as you
get approval from us, the City Council and the Liquor Control
Commission, you are not purchasing the building?
Mr. Testasecca: We are going to purchase this building on the chance that the
Liquor Control Commission will grant it based on discussions I have
had with the Liquor Control Commission
Mr. LaPine: Now we will get back to the point I am trying to make. What
happens if you get the approval, you buy the building and the
Liquor Control Commission says no we are not issuing a license?
'lour You are not going to proceed?
Mr. Testasecca: No, then obviously we would own a building that we would put up for
sale.
Mr. LaPine: See that is the predicament it puts us in. If you don't purchase
the building and do what you say you are going to do, then you are
going to say I am going to let the building sit there. You own the
building, you are going to try to sell it I assume and move
somewhere else where you can get your liquor license, then we are
still stuck with the building and it has not been renovated.
Mr. Testasecca: The Liquor Control Commission has given us a tentative approval
based on the Livonia City Council giving us their approval. If the
Livonia City Council gives us an approval, we are approved. For
the Livonia City Council to approve our transfer, it is just a
transfer from one location to the next, the Livonia City Council
will not give us an approval until we get a Waiver Use approval
from this body. At this stage I would say, based on my discussions
with the Liquor Control Commission, it is a deal so long as the
City will grant the transfer via City Council.
Mr. LaPine: John, I know we don't have the jurisdiction but can the Council
request that they put up a performance bond before they approve
this that they know this work is going to be done?
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Mr. Nagy: Not that I am aware of.
Mr. McCann: I have done numerous sales of businesses involving liquor licenses.
What they are suggesting is not unusual in the case of a transfer
of a liquor license. They are going about it the proper way and it
`. is not unusual for them to say look we have qualified everywhere
else for the transfer since the license is already in your club's
name, correct?
Mr. Testasecca: Correct.
Mr. McCann: And they are transferring it within the City therefore as long as
the City approves it there should not be a problem.
Mr. LaPine: As the Chairman pointed out and Mr. McCann, and you are an attorney
and I respect your opinion, I have no objection. My problem is I
want to make sure I am going to get what I am told I am going to
get.
Mr. McCann: It was more to the point that the ability to get a transfer, they
do have to have the waiver use first and then the City would
approve them, I assume, at the same time allowing them to do it.
Then I believe they would have to get the Occupancy Permit before
anyone could enter it. They would have to complete all repairs.
Mr. Alanskas: Just one more question for clarification. You said you hoped to be
done by the middle of November. Does that also include the inside
of the building?
Mr. Testasecca: Yes.
Mr. Alanskas: Landscaping and everything done?
Mr. Testasecca: Yes because we have to vacate the other building.
Mr. Engebretson: There is one point of bad news I have to convey to you and that
is in the scenario you were describing and all the various steps
that go along the way, there was one that you omitted, that being
that the Council also has to approve the waiver use.
Mr. Testasecca: Based on your approval, that will happen in two weeks.
Mr. Engebretson: So you do get a waiver use approval there plus the transfer.
Mr. Testasecca: Exactly.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to make a comment, not to have any impact on what
happens here tonight, but just to make you aware of the fact that
when I was there on Sunday and it was raining, I stood under that
newly repaired roof and it leaks like a sieve. I shouldn't say
like a sieve, it leaks steadily between those two boards so you may
want to be aware of that before everything gets all buttoned up.
You can pull that thing down and possibly find out where that water
is coming from. That is not really our concern. I just offer that
to you in a friendly way that while it is in this particular
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condition, it is going to be a lot easier to go after that than it
will be in the future. Is there anything the petitioner would like
to add?
\r. Mr. Testasecca: Yes, we would like a clarification on what is required to be
screened. We have intentions of screening in the heating and
cooling units on the roof but our concern is, does it have to be
screened from all sides?
Mr. Engebretson: We are concerned about the screening primarily from what is seen
from the public out front. What your folks see from the parking
lot in the back has never been a particular concern. If there is
something that is going to be visible to your members as they walk
from their cars to the door that is of no concern to the City.
Mr. Tent: How about the neighbors?
Mr. Engebretson: I don't think the neighbors can see anything there.
Mr. Tent: That is what I am going to be concerned about.
Mr. Engebretson: There are all trees in back of that property. There is complete
screening.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas and seconded by Mr. McCann, it was
#9-168-93 RESOLVFTI that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on July 27,
1993 on Petition 93-7-2-16 by the Loyal Order of Moose #1317 requesting
waiver use approval to utilize a club license in conjunction with a
Now proposed Moose Lodge to be located on the south side of Plymouth Road
between Middlebelt and Garden Avenue in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 36,
the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council
that Petition 93-7-2-16 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan dated September 14, 1993 prepared by D.
Grumbache, which is hereby approved, shall be adhered to.
2) That the Building Elevation Plan dated 9-13-93, as revised, which
is hereby approved shall be adhered to including the provision of
screening of all of the roof-top mechanical units.
3) That the landscaping shown on the approved site plan shall be
installed prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy and
shall thereafter be permanently maintained in a healthy condition.
4) That the existing pole sign shall be completely removed down to the
concrete base.
5) That the entire parking lot shall be resurfaced and restriped as
illustrated on the approved site plan.
6) That the existing protective wall shall be repainted.
7) That the public sidewalk along the Plymouth Road right-of-way line
shall be replaced with a concrete walk as per City standards.
13006
for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 11.03
`.. and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed
use.
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area.
4) That the approval of the petition will provide for the substantial
upgrading and use of a vacant commercial building and adjacent
site.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
#543, as amended.
Mr. Morrow: Is it safe to assume that all of the exterior conditions that we
have here would have to be accomplished prior to a Certificate of
Occupancy?
Mr. Nagy: Yes.
Mr. LaPine: Can they get a temporary C of 0?
Mr. Nagy: At the discretion of the Chief Building Official.
'tow Mr. LaPine: What if we put in the motion we don't want a temporary C of 0, that
we don't want a C of 0 until it is completely finished.
Mr. Nagy: It is more appropriately left with the Chief Building Official as
they are the qualified people and when they have the assurances the
City needs and the City is protected with respect to those permits
issued for the various phases of the work. Where we would have
control over would be the external site landscaping and site
improvements. The zoning ordinance is very clear on those issues
and I think we would serve the City's interest better by dealing
with the external matters of the site improvements. The Building
Department is more appropriately the ones charged with the internal
portions of the building.
Mr. Engebretson: If I may speak to that issue. I have been associated with moves
of businesses into new buildings on a number of occasions and I
think it was always necessary to get a temporary Occupancy Permit
just because of the nature of things. I think the City has plenty
of levers to pull if any of these things don't come to pass and I
think we may put up an artificial impediment here if we were to
deal with that kind of thing.
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman, I hate to disagree with you but I can give you some
good examples of buildings that were started and never finished and
they are still up there and nothing has been done about it. We
�r. have ordinances that say they should come down so that doesn't mean
anything.
13007
Mr. Engebretson: That is all true but I am addressing the issue of a temporary
occupancy issue. It is quite different. I would just not like to
put up any artificial barriers. They have enough to deal with.
Neo. Mr. Tent: I am going to support this petition reluctantly because I am
concerned that everything that we say here and requested will
happen. I just want to serve notice to the petitioner that I am
going to watch them very closely. I am going to look at the things
I am concerned about to make certain that they have adhered to
these conditions so nothing slips through the cracks. So I, as one
Commissioner, want to put you on notice that I am going to watch
what is going on.
Mr. Morrow: A point of clarification. I was concerned more with the exterior
work versus the interior work so a C of 0 would be granted once the
exterior had been accomplished to maybe allow them limited
occupancy to allow them to complete the work inside. Is that the
correct understanding?
Mr. Nagy: Yes.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, Morrow, Alanskas, McCann, Engebretson
NAYS: LaPine
ABSENT: Fandrei
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 93-8-2-20
by Angelo Mauti requesting waiver use approval to operate an automotive
repair shop within an existing building located on the north side of
Plymouth Road between Haller Avenue and Camden Road in the Southwest 1/4
of Section 25.
Mr. Engebretson: Gentlemen again, this was an item that was tabled at a public
hearing in August. I need a motion to remove it from the table.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. Tent and unanimously
approved, it was
##9-169-93 RESOLVED that, Petition 93-8-2-20 by Angelo Mauti requesting waiver use
approval to operate an automotive repair shop within an existing
building located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Hailer
Avenue and Camden Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 25, be taken from
the table.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. Engebretson: Now we will deal with the petition. There were a number of
outstanding items having to do with what was going to be painted,
what was going to be paved, etc. I guess we will go to the
petitioner to see how you resolved all of those particular issues.
'New Tell us what you have done with your plan.
13008
Angelo Mauti, 20154 Riverside, Livonia: Nothing has been painted yet on the
outside because it is all on the approval. There was a color
discussion here about the red and white.
Mr. Engebretson: We didn't ask you to do it. We asked you to clarify exactly what
you were intending to do with the painting and the parking lot.
Mr. Mauti: The parking lot is going to be paved 57 feet out from the building.
It is going to be paved all the way back down, I believe, it is 20
feet from the fence and the rest is going to be all sod.
Mr. Engebretson: The rest meaning the entire balance of the property in front?
Mr. Mauti: Yes.
Mr. Engebretson: Back to where you have the fence presently?
Mr. Mauti: Yes.
Mr. Engebretson: That will be new sod in there?
Mr. Mauti: Yes.
Mr. Engebretson: I don't think your plan indicates that but we will modify it to
include that.
Mr. Mauti: I thought that was what you wanted.
Mr. Engebretson: Well yes we would like to have that. It seems to me there were
fir. more items. Help us out H.
Mr. Shane: You might recall that the staff has helped them with the site
plans. It does contain the landscape details that it didn't
before. You were concerned about the amount of building that would
be used for this use, specifically the repair. He did mention the
sixth overhead door which occurs in the most easterly building. He
indicated there was a 12 x 16 space designated inside the building
at that point which he would be using for part of his operation so
we have detailed that on his site plan and showing that the rest of
the building would be used for office purposes for this petitioner.
You wanted a clarification of those uses inside.
Mr. Engebretson: H, may I ask now that this site plan has been modified as you
just described it, does that imply that the waiver use is confined
just to that 12 x 16 area of that third building, the easterly
building?
Mr. Shane: Yes. Although the legal description contains the entire area of
the building, the waiver use is confined to that area.
Mr. Engebretson: So there would be no right by law to come in and cut seven more
overhead doors in there and extend the repair facility?
Mr. Shane: Not at all.
Mr. Engebretson: Are there other points to remind us of H?
13009
Mr. Shane: There is a dumpster location and it is indicated that will be a
concrete dumpster with appropriate gates up front. It is indicated
that the existing landscape area will be refurbished and, in fact,
that work is already underway. So in addition to new landscape
N441► details, they will be redoing the landscape that is already there
and the plan does indicate that the existing parking lot will be
resurfaced, restriped and that the new parking area will be
appropriately hard surfaced and striped.
Mr. Tent: A question to the petitioner. We asked the staff to prepare a list
of the facilities that are currently in the area and they have come
up with ten. I see most of them are tire and muffler stores, etc.
What you are proposing here is a full service repair center. Is
that correct?
Scott Papin: There will be complete automotive as far as glass, detailing, as
far as polishing the interior, cellular phones and automotive
repairs.
Mr. Tent: Then you will be different than the K-Mart auto center and the
American Auto Village or the Wards Auto Express?
Mr. Papin: Most of the facilities in that area do not do what I do.
Mr. Tent: That is good. Then you are not over polluting the area. Are you
still going to go with the red painted building?
Mr. Papin: I would love to do that. I have other shops going up in Canton and
Auburn Hills and they are all going to be red and white.
or
Mr. Tent: But they are a long ways away. This is Livonia.
Mr. Papin: I want my franchise to be red and white. I would love to continue
red and white.
Mr. Tent: It wouldn't hurt your feelings if you had to make a change in the
red and white?
Mr. Papin: It might.
Mr. LaPine: I still have a problem with the office space. As I figured out
here you have 3200 square feet of office space.
Mr. Papin: The first building would be a showroom only. A parts room and
showroom. The other building will be a nice waiting room with
couches and a TV. There will be an office for my personal use and
my secretary and then you will have the six bays for repair and one
bay for detail.
Mr. LaPine: The building on the west side on Haller, is still vacant?
Mr. Papin: That will be a vacant building.
Mr. LaPine: So the front of the building will be a showroom to show them the
different things you have. Is that what you are telling me?
13010
Mr. Papin: Yes.
Mr. LaPine: Where will you be storing your parts?
`, Mr. Papin: There is enough room there to store parts. We have plenty of room
inside.
Mr. Alanskas: To our petitioners, at our last study we had talked in regard to
noise levels and we discussed as far as a lot of radios being on
and you said you do not allow that in your businesses.
Mr. Papin: I allow them to have a radios but not loud radios.
Mr. Alanskas: I visited yours one day last week and as I approached the building
your man had to turn it down so we could even converse. It was
very loud. I am just hoping you won't do that here.
Mr. Papin: If I walk in and I hear loud music, I will tear the thing right
out. I told them I don't want customers to hear it in the lobby.
If they want to hear it as they work, that is fine with me.
Mr. Alanskas: H, in the site plans for plant material in B you show six
Australian Pines but I only see five on the site plan. Will there
be six or five.
Mr. Shane: There will be five.
Mr. Engebretson: I would like to ask the staff what your opinion is on the
aesthetics that are going to result from the painting of two out of
'timer three attached buildings a radically different scheme than the
other portion that exists. Is this something we are going to
regret. Should we paint the whole building the same or is it okay
to have two such significantly different color schemes in what
appears to be one building even though it is technically three.
Mr. Shane: You might want to make that harmonious colors in some fashion.
This part of the building is red and white. You might hope that
the other part of the building might capture perhaps some portion
of red or white or some combination to make it more harmonious. It
is unfortunate that all three buildings are not being used by the
same petitioner. Then your question would be easier.
Mr. Nagy: I would like to comment on that. The unoccupied building is still
part of the site. It is still an integral part of it. I don't
think it would be an unreasonable requirement on the Commission's
part that the vacant building too shall be painted a color
complimentary to these colors.
Mr. Engebretson: Not necessarily the same but complimentary. Does staff have any
concern with the proposed red and white color scheme that has been
presented here?
Mr. Nagy: Since that issue came up a week or two ago, we have given it some
thought and we have gone around town and looked and it seems that
13011
is almost becoming an industry standard, the red and white.
Discount Tire has used that. Cagle's Body and Collision has used
that. You almost identify red and white with some type of
automotive repair and service. For that industry I don't have any
r,„ problem with it.
Mr. Tent: To just follow up with what Mr. Nagy said, we get the other
building painted up too. Would that be the ideal recommendation if
we went along with this red, to have a compatible color for the
adjacent building be white?
Mr. Nagy: I think you get a basic white color and whatever the future tenant
might be, it would be a color they could work with.
Mr. Tent: Where I was coming from, I didn't want to have another Tremor's
with the pink color in the middle and then the other thing would be
a green awning all the way around that thing. I bow to your
judgment.
Mr. LaPine: John, when he bought the pictures in of his location in Garden
City, there were a lot of signs painted on the building. I don't
want that at this location. We are going to be restricting him on
signs.
Mr. Nagy: Right, it is a control zone.
Mr. Papin: The one building you are concerned with, if this goes through I
would have somebody that may be taking that building, if everything
goes right. Then we will just take that other building and paint
it red and white.
Mr. Engebretson: Our motion may very well require you to paint that at least a
compatible color, as Mr. Nagy has indicated, rather than just let
that sit there. We will determine a compatible color at a later
date.
Mr. Papin: If no one rents it, I will still take care of that area.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow and seconded by Mr. Tent, it was
#9-170-93 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held on August
24, 1993 on Petition 93-8-2-20 by Angelo Mauti requesting waiver use
approval to operate an automotive repair shop within an existing
building located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Haller
Avenue and Camden Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 25, the City
Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 93-8-2-20 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan dated 9-2-93, as revised, which is hereby
approved shall be adhered to.
2) That the landscaping illustrated on the approved site plan shall be
installed prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy and
shall thereafter be permanently maintained in a healthy condition.
\r.
13012
3) That the existing parking lot shall be repaired and resurfaced and
the new parking area completed as illustrated on the approved site
plan prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy.
`, 4) That the westerly building shall be painted and brought into the
same type of compatible colors as the other two buildings.
for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 11.03
and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543.
2) That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed
use.
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area,
4) That the approval of this petition will provide for the occupancy
of a vacant commercial building and the substantial upgrading of
the adjacent site.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance
x/543, as amended.
Mr. Tent: To the maker of the motion, do you think we should put another item
in there concerning the signage? I am not talking about the big
`hr. sign. I am talking about the signs that they generally put in the
windows, etc. , that some restriction be made in the motion. I
recognize this is a control zone but they have a habit of putting
signs in the windows and on the sides of the building.
Mr. Morrow: What does the current ordinance allow?
Mr. Engebretson: Twenty percent.
Mr. Tent: Would that be something we should put in our resolution?
Mr. Nagy: The ordinance limits them right now. You don't have to worry about
it.
Mr. Tent: So we are automatically covered. It will be up to our Inspection
Department to enforce that.
Mr. Nagy: Correct.
Mr. Engebretson: Just so you understand what is going on here, you will be
restricted on any signage that you wish to put in the window to
twenty percent.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Tent, LaPine, Morrow, McCann, Engebretson
__ NAYS: Alanskas
ABSENT: Fandrei
13013
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is approval of the
minutes of the 669th Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held on August
24, 1993.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent, seconded by Mr. Morrow and unanimously approved,
it was
#i9-171-93 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 669th Regular Meeting & Public
Hearings held on August 24, 1993 are approved.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
Mr. McCann, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 93-8-8-16
by Siegal/Tuomaala Associates Architects & Planners, Inc. , on behalf of
A&P/Borman's, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.47
of Zoning Ordinance ##543 in connection with a proposal to alter an
exterior building elevation for the Farmer Jack Supermarket located on
the south side of Eight Mile Road between Angling Road and Grand River
Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 1.
Mr. Miller: This is a petition to alter the exterior elevation of the Farmer
Jack store that is located in the Weirton Plaza Shopping Center,
which is located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Grand
River and Angling Avenue. This is also the shopping center which
houses the Arbor Drugs which was just recently approved for a
waiver use for an SDM license and during that approval they did
elevation changes. The Farmer Jack's petition has stated that
`'`'' these elevation changes will be similar, if not the same, in scheme
and material. Farmer Jack is proposing to modify their whole
storefront, putting in new windows, moving their entrance from the
corner of their store to the middle, incorporating a structural
canopy over the entrance and putting a synthetic material on the
outside, which will match the Arbor Drugs. They are also proposing
to restripe and modify their parking lot that is adjacent to the
front of their building.
Mr. Engebretson: I believe the material that Arbor Drug talked about was drivit.
Mr. Tent: John or Scott, we had mentioned at the study session was it
possible for the owner of the entire building to consider upgrading
the entire building, other than just the Farmer Jack.
Lonnie Zimmerman: I am from Siegal/Tuomaala Associates. As soon as you made your
request, Al Walkenback, who is Director of Construction for Farmer
Jack/A&P in Detroit, did make this letter from the Building
Department and that request known to the owner of the shopping
center and we don't have a response yet but we are hoping for
something.
Mr. Tent: At least a request was made. As one Commissioner I don't have any
intention of holding back the entire project. I am happy with what
is going on. I was just hopeful we could box the whole project up.
Mr. Zimmerman: It is in Farmer Jack's best interest also.
13014
Mr. Engebretson: This is the most significant project of the evening and it comes
last and we spend almost no time on it. It seems like we should
talk about this for a while because it really is going to be a
significant enhancement and we really appreciate what Farmer Jack
is doing here. I don't think there is any further discussion
`r, needed at this point. A motion would be in order.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Tent, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved,
it was
##9-172-93 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that Petition 93-8-8-16 by Siegal/Tuomaala Associates
Architects & Planners, Inc. , on behalf of A&P/Borman's, requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of Zoning Ordinance #}543
in connection with a proposal to alter an exterior building elevation
for the Farmer Jack Supermarket located on the south side of Eight Mile
Road between Angling Road and Grand River Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of
Section 1, be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan, defined as Sheet P-1 dated 8/23/93 by Siegal
Tuomaala Associates Architects and Planners Inc. , is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
2) That the Elevation Plan, defined as Sheet P-2 dated 8/23/93 by
Siegal Tuomaala Associates Architects and Planners Inc. , is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
3) That the petitioner shall come back before the Planning Commission
for approval of the sign plan when it is developed;
4) That the petitioner correct the site deficiencies pertaining to the
Farmer Jack Store and adjacent area enumerated in the letter from
Ordinance Enforcement Division dated August 30, 1993;
5) That no Certificate of Occupancy shall be issued until each of the
above conditions are met to the satisfaction of the City's
Departments of Engineering and Inspection.
Mr. Morrow: I have just a comment. These are the type of petitions that come
before the Planning Commission that makes the time spent worthwhile
because we are definitely upgrading the gateway to one of the
corners of the City and we certainly appreciate Arbor Drugs and
Bormans/A&P for selecting this site to maintain a relationship.
Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 670th Regular Meeting
held on September 14, 1993 was adjourned at 8:40 p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
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mes C. McCann, Secretary
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ATTEST: G 1
Jack. Engebretson, Chairman /
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