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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1995-11-14 14488 MINUTES OF THE 714th REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, November 14, 1995, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 714th Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Jack Engebretson, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. Members present: Jack Engebretson William LaPine Robert Alanskas James C. McCann R. Lee Morrow Patricia Blomberg Daniel Piercecchi Messrs. John J. Nagy, Planning Director, and Scott Miller, Planner I, were also present. Mr. Engebretson informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission only makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn, will hold its own public hearing and decide the question. If a petition involves a waiver of use request and the request is denied, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City Council; otherwise the petition is terminated. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a preliminary plat and/or a vacating petition. Planning Commission resolutions become effective seven days after the resolutions are adopted. The Planning Commission has reviewed the petitions upon their *goraw filing and have been furnished by the staff with approving and denying resolutions. The Commission may use them or not use them depending upon the outcome of the hearing tonight. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Petition 95-8-1-19 by Louis J. Capra requesting to rezone property located north of Bretton Road between Melvin and Oporto Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from RUFA to R-1. Mr. Engebretson: This item was tabled at our last regular meeting awaiting additional citizen input, if there was to be any, and to have then follow up with the Engineering Department if there were any additional citizen inquiry. Procedurally I need a motion to remove this item from the table. On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously approved, it was #10-220-95 RESOLVED that, Petition 95-8-1-19 by Louis J. Capra requesting to rezone property located north of Bretton Road between Melvin and Oporto Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from RUFA to R-1 be taken from the table. 14489 Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. 10- Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, have we heard from any citizens relative to specific concerns relative to the drainage problems that have been discussed? Mr. Nagy: We did receive an inquiry relative to the sanitary sewer as to how that is to be brought in to serve the property, and in checking that out with the Engineering Department they forwarded to our office on November 3rd, a letter to that effect indicating that the nearest sanitary sewer available to serve the subject zoning area is located on the south side of Bretton Avenue. The plan for this extension will, of course, be reviewed by their office at the time they get the specific development proposal. That was the extent of any inquiry we have had. Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mr. Nagy. A gentleman in the audience came up prior to the meeting and indicated that he had a video tape he had taken that depicts some of the concerns that they have, not only in the immediate area but further upstream, and he has volunteered to leave that with us this evening no matter what the outcome, and we would hopefully have the opportunity to circulate it internally and also to share it with the Engineering Department and the City Council. I presume he is going to drop that off before he leaves tonight, and we will do that. Do you feel Mr. Nagy that the citizens' concerns have been met with the inquiry '�•► and response that you read here tonight? Do you feel that there are any outstanding issues relative to these drainage concerns that have been left unsettled? Mr. Nagy: I think we made a valid effort to try to get with the appropriate City personnel, namely the Engineering Department, to resolve these issues to satisfy hopefully the public, if not the Planning Commission in your responsibility to render a decision on this matter, that the City Engineering Department is of the opinion that there are adequate storm sewers to solve the problem in that area as well as provide the necessary utilities in terms of not only storm but sanitary water to adequately serve the area. Mr. Engebretson: Thank you Mr. Nagy, I recall you have explained that to us previously but in deference to the immediate and most affected neighbors we wanted to make sure that we didn't leave any stones unturned. That is why we took this extra effort here. If there is nothing new then, a motion would be in order. On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi and seconded by Mr. Alanskas, it was 14490 #10-221-95 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on October 24, 1995 on Petition 95-8-1-19 by Louis J. *l,., Capra requesting to rezone property located north of Bretton Road between Melvin and Oporto Avenues in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 2 from RUFA to R-1, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 95-8-1-19 be approved for the following reasons: 1) That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the developing character of the area as evidenced by the R-1 district occurring on lands located south and east of the subject area; 2) That the proposed change of zoning will promote a more comprehensive solution to development of the subject area; 3) That the proposed change of zoning will provide for the elimination of double frontage lots in the area; and 4) That the proposed change of zoning will provide an opportunity for the extension of public facilities such as street paving and storm sewers. FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance#543, as amended. 'rr. Mr. Engebretson: Any discussion? Mr. Morrow: Mr. Chairman, it seems to me when we had the public hearing the petitioner indicated at one time he would not have any problem with an R-2 zoning. I wonder if that is still holding? Mr. Engebretson: The petitioner had indicated that because these lots would meet the R-2 zoning district that he apparently was willing to do that, but my recollection was that the surrounding area would be more compatible with the R-1. Is that correct Mr. Nagy? Mr. Nagy: Correct. Since there is already R-1 to the south, it seemed like the R-1 was a more logical extension of the existing zoning classification of the area than to introduce another one, but the proposal as it stands will meet the R-2 requirements. The R-1 was selected, again, only because it is already established in the area. Mr. Engebretson: And I believe that you further added at that time that just because it is zoned R-1, that wouldn't prevent him from developing it in the spirit of the R-2 zoning district. r.. 14491 Mr. Nagy: Precisely. Mr. Engebretson: I think that is what the developer had indicated. Mr. Nagy: Right. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Morrow do you want to pursue that matter further or are you satisfied? Mr. Morrow: No, I think the consensus is R-1. My only problem is we certainly can see the R-1 there but there is a lot being developed northwest of that particular site, and there is a lot of RUF and probably some existing lots that are non-conforming that are RUF districts, but I am not going to press it if the department feels an R-1 is sufficient and the Commission basically feels that way. Mr. Engebretson: I would just like to add a comment for the benefit of the nearby residents that as we indicated to you before, the issue of drainage and sewers was not technically or properly discussed as part of this zoning petition. However, we felt it was important that we pay considerable attention to those matters as we went through the zoning process realizing all the while that these matters are going to be an issue of great attention if the zoning is successful. So this is just the very beginning. The matter of drainage will become a popular issue and one that will be examined under a microscope at the time of plat approval process if this is successful. I don't want you to feel that we are insensitive to your concerns about that drainage, and I hope you are getting the message that it will be a matter of great importance later on in the process. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Piercecchi, Alanskas, Blomberg, McCann, Engebretson NAYS: Morrow, LaPine ABSENT: None Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is a request by Kaftan Enterprises to modify a condition of Petition 94-5-2-14, which received waiver use approval in connection with the construction of a single family cluster development located on the north side of Six Mile Road 14492 between Middlebelt Road and Louise Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 11. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, can you tell us how this got on our agenda tonight without prior notice? Mr. Nagy: I thought it was a study meeting. I didn't realize it was a regular meeting and I do apologize for that. That is why I tried to explain in the notes that because this is the first time you have had an opportunity to look at this and see this, you might want to actually put this over to another study meeting to give you some time to look at it. By way of background Mathieu's Acres is a proposed 9 unit cluster housing project on the north side of Six Mile Road west of Middlebelt, the second parcel west of Jimmie's Rustics. What the developer is proposing to do in connection with one of the conditions of approval is to change the requirement for 50% brick to a lesser amount, leaving it to the discretion of the actual buyer. The project has been sold. There is a new developer involved. As you may recall, Jerald Gottlieb was the proponent of that initial project. There is now a new developer, Kaftan Enterprises, who is here in the audience, and if you wish, will take some time this evening to explain his plans or if you wish more time to review it after he tells you where he has built some of his projects in the area, then you may want to take some time to look at it. It is your decision to make. Mr. Engebretson: If there is no objection, I think if the petitioner would want to just give us an overview of what he has in mind to give us an opportunity to prepare for a future meeting to look into it in greater detail, we can do that, and certainly if there is anyone in the audience who came down to address this issue, we certainly will give them the opportunity to make a comment too, but basically with the same restriction that we just want to deal with this in the big picture level tonight and save the details for future thought. If the petitioner wants to come forward and give us just an overview of what your planned changes are. Jeffrey Kaftan: I represent Kaftan Enterprises. We are the new developer for the site. As I think you already are aware of Jerald Gottlieb was initial developer for the site known as Mathieu's Acres. We re-named it Brookview Park but the plans are similar. Basically, there is not too much detail that I want to go into. I just want to explain our position. We are developers and have been in business for 25 years. We build houses and apartments in the southeastern Michigan area. Basically why we are here, as Mr. Nagy just said, is to waive the requirement which required us to provide 50% coverage of face brick on the elevations. We weren't in the picture at the time Mr. Gottlieb came up with some 14493 of the restrictions and requirements involved, and I'm not sure what went on and was discussed. However, I do know that our project, which Mr. Nagy mentioned, in Farmington Hills we are going to be building the same houses in Livonia on this site. I think you can see there we have some elevations and pictures. We have the many different elevations that we offer. The project we have there is a 100 site subdivision so there have been many different elevations in order to keep from a repetition subdivision. We are going to be using the same elevations and actually before a model is built, be selling out of the model in Farmington Hills. My reasons for coming to ask you to waive the 50% brick requirement is in regard to the compatibility of the area. We believe that piece of property is a transition use. You have commercial directly to the east of the site. Right there is a commercial office building, a mainly glass building. Mr. Engebretson: You are starting to get into the details of your presentation so perhaps it would be more appropriate if Mr. Nagy could provide you with a copy of the minutes of the meeting that preceded this. Mr. Kaftan: Mr. Gottlieb's meeting? Mr. Engebretson: Yes. We can probably provide that so you can understand a little better some of the reasoning that was involved here. I will tell you that both the Planning Commission and City Council are reluctant to go below 50%brick in most instances. I am not saying it is impossible but you have an uphill struggle ahead of you with this one, but let's hear it out Nospr in full at another meeting where you can get into all the details. We can get into the elevations and we will have had an opportunity to revisit the site and area to get a better feel for exactly what it is you will be presenting. Mr. Kaftan: Then we will go to a study session for you to see it? Mr. Engebretson: We will do that and we will probably go visit your site in Farmington Hills. Forgive me, I didn't mean to be cutting you short but I think you are really doing yourself a disservice by putting all your cards on the table here before we have had a chance to even look at it. Since you are on the agenda, I will give you the opportunity to make those comments. I would like to see if there is anyone in the audience who came to speak to this particular issue. Seeing no one, I think we should look for a motion to table this to an appropriate meeting. On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was 14494 #11-222-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine to table the request by Kaftan Enterprises to modify a condition of Petition "No 94-5-2-14, which received waiver use approval in connection with the construction of a single family cluster development located on the north side of Six Mile Road between Middlebelt Road and Louise Avenue in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 11, until the study meeting of November 21, 1995. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes of the 713th Regular Meeting& Public Hearings held on October 24, 1995. On a motion duly made by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mrs. Blomberg and unanimously approved, it was #11-223-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 713th Regular Meeting & Public Hearings held by the City Planning Commission on October 24, 1995 are hereby approved. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes of the 374th Special Meeting held on October 31, 1995. On a motion duly made by Mr. Alanskas and seconded by Mr. Morrow, it was #11-224-95 RESOLVED that, the minutes of the 374th Special Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on October 31, 1995 are hereby approved. A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Alanskas, Blomberg, LaPine, Piercecchi, Morrow, Engebretson NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: McCann Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-10-8-24 by Holy Trinity Lutheran Church requesting approval for all plans required by 14495 Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the church located at 39020 Five Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 28. Mr. Miller: This church is located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Knolson Avenue and I-96/I-275 or just east of the Italian American Club. They are proposing to construct about a 10,000 sq. ft. addition onto their existing church, and this addition would be in the form of two separate additions. The one large addition to the rear, which would be about 9,000 sq. ft., would be used for classrooms, administrative offices and a social hall. The other addition would be located in the front of the existing church towards Five Mile Road and would be used for classrooms. The rear addition would encroach into the existing parking lot, therefore the entire parking lot would have to be restriped, and because it does take up some of the existing parking, new pavement in this area here would be laid down to be added to the parking lot with stripes. They are meeting the parking requirement. Landscaping, they would put in new landscaping which would match the existing around the building in the area around the new addition. So you would have around here new landscaping that would match the existing and would blend in as one. The elevation plan shows that the two additions would match the existing building in style and materials so that once it is completed it will look as if it was built all at one time. r.. Mr. Engebretson: Mr. Nagy, do we have any correspondence on this petition? Mr. Nagy: We have no correspondence. Mr. Engebretson: Would the petitioner please come forward and add whatever comments you feel are appropriate. Darryl Brill: I am with Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and I am representing the church this evening. Mr. Miller did a fine job describing the project, and the only comments I would have to make in that regard would be the style. I know that is not in color to help explain this. The colors are going to match the existing brick out there. We are going to match the existing beveled siding and also the shingles to the best of our ability. I think it is kind of a tan and brown combination. What we are endeavoring to do is to match everything that is out there and hopefully make it look a little better. That is basically how it is going to look. Mr. Engebretson: Any questions? Mr. Alanskas: As we discussed, you are going to put 20 foot lightpoles instead of 30? 14496 Mr. Brill: Mr. Miller brought that to my attention when I submitted, and we have absolutely no objection to doing that. It was just an oversight on our behalf. Even if we have to put shields, that is not a problem either. Mr. Engebretson: There is one thing Mr. Miller said that I think I would take exception to if I were you, he referred to this as being immediately east of the Italian American Club. From now on I think we should say that the Italian American Club is immediately to the west of the Holy Trinity Lutheran Church. If there is nothing further, a motion would be in order. On a motion duly made by Mr. Morrow, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved, it was #11-225-95 RESOLVED that the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition 95-10-8-24 by Holy Trinity Lutheran Church requesting approval for all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct an addition to the church located at 39020 Five Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 18, subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan marked C800 dated October 24, 1995, as revised, prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except for the fact that the height of the light poles shall not exceed 20 ft.; 2) That the parking spaces for the entire site shall be double striped; 3) That the Building Elevation Plans marked A200 & A201 dated October 24, 1995, as revised, prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 4) That the building materials of the two new additions shall match the building materials of the existing church in style and color so that upon completion the entire structure will look like it was constructed at one time; 5.) That the Landscape Plan marked C820 dated October 24, 1995, as revised, prepared by Sauriol Bohde Wagner Architects and Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6) That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all new landscaped areas as described on the approved Landscape Plan, and all planted materials shall be installed prior to final inspection to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition. 14497 Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. 'glow Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 95-10-8-25 by DiComo Associates requesting approval for all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance#543 in connection with a proposal to construct a commercial building on property located at 37355 Eight Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 5. Mr. Miller: This property is located on the southeast corner of Newburgh and Eight Mile Road. Whispering Willows Golf Course surrounds this site. The petitioner is proposing to construct a two-story, two-unit commercial center. Parking will be located along the Eight Mile and Newburgh side. Because of the slope of this property, which is pretty steep, if you look from Eight Mile Road, the building will look as if it is one story. From Newburgh Road it will be a two-story building. Rite Aid, which would be one of the units, would occupy the top floor of this facility. Caddy Shack will locate on the second floor of the unit. Parking, they are required to have 105. The site shows 118 so they meet the parking requirement. Landscaping, they have submitted a landscape plan. (He presented the landscape plan) They are required to have 15% of the total area of the site. This figures out to be about 20% so they are in excess of the required landscaping. The building will be brick with sandstone highlighting of some of the areas. If you remember, the structure that is on that site right now has sandstone, which will be maintained and they are putting it on this building. Mr. Engebretson: Excuse me Scott. Just for clarification. You said they were going to be maintaining. They are going to demolish the building and utilize the sandstone? Mr. Miller: Yes. As you can see there will be a green roof with a natural brick color sandstone. Mr. Morrow: Is that striping indicative of what the building is going to look like? Mr. Nagy: Those are meant to be shadow lines rather than actual lines. Mr. Miller: Yes I think those are shadow lines. Mr. Morrow: The brick is going to be all one brick? Mr. Miller: Yes I am pretty sure. You can ask Dan but I am pretty sure. I think that is the artist's rendering. 14498 Mr. Engebretson: Come up here Dan and tell us why you have presented it that way. Maybe you have a better rendering. '"imy Dan DiComo: I am representing DiComo Associates, and Caddy Shack and Rite Aid for the development of this project. What we have, yes as far as you can see the two-tone. We have made some alterations to the site plan and to the elevations since our last meeting. We have updated everybody with copies of those site plans and elevations. From the Engineer's letter, what we have done is we have added the sidewalks going all the way from the creek here all the way up and around the site to meet with the City's requirements. We have also moved the east wall of the building off the property line two feet so we can have a natural overhang so the front of the building from the front does not look like it just comes off, so it cannot project onto the City property. We have slid the building over two feet to the west. Also, in dealing with that in this parking area we are jockeying some of the spaces around, not adding or subtracting any of them. What we have done is move the parking further away from this road down to here (this was pointed out on the plan) so that this access way as far as dropping severely is more manageable for automobile traffic. We have tried to work out the grades a little bit better than what we had initially. So what we have done is just further developed the site plan so it works with both the City regulations and the requirements of the owner. 'taw Mr. LaPine: Down here in the lower right hand corner where it says Shipping & Receiving Garage, how do you get into that? Do you come in off Newburgh? You have a 22 foot drive. You have a semi coming in. How do they pull in there to load, turn around and unload? Mr. DiComo: Actually what we have done is we have allowed ourselves access to the site in a number of ways. We are not planning on, as far as I know, a lot of semi traffic. Obviously, we have the semi traffic coming this way for Rite Aid into the front. So what we have done is separated the two entrances. In this case, obviously, they would pull in and be able to back up. All the maneuvering lanes would be on the property. Mr. LaPine: So they have to pull in off Newburgh and back into this 22 foot driveway and then back on into the garage. Is that what you are telling us? Mr. DiComo: And then pull out, yes. Mr. LaPine: This area down here on the right, that is for the Caddy Shack? Mr. DiComo: Yes the Caddy Shack only. 14499 Mr. LaPine: Where will the drugstore be loading and unloading? `4•11. Mr. DiComo: They will be loading in this portion right here next to the dumpsters. (He pointed this area out on the plan) Mr. LaPine: How will they get a semi in there because I know they have semi's. I have seen them deliver stuff. How do they get in? Mr. DiComo: It depends. If they are coming off Newburgh Road, they would pull in and then back up to this spot there. If not, I assume they would be making a right hand turn and as they pulled in they would have to do more maneuvering obviously. The desired way would be to come in and do just that, back up to the area. It is a triple wide lane right here, as you can see, so any of the trucks that come in for Rite Aid would be able to maneuver. Mr. LaPine: The entrance is 25 feet correct? Mr. DiComo: Correct. Mr. LaPine: Then it goes to 31.9 feet? Mr. DiComo: Correct. Mr. LaPine: I don't think it is a very good way they are handling the trucks but okay. Mr. Engebretson: There is one door there for loading and unloading for Rite Aid? Mr. DiComo: Right. It is one double door. Mr. Engebretson: If there is a tractor/trailer parked there off-loading materials then, based upon what you just said and the dimensions that are shown on the site plan, apparently there is still room for cars to continue to utilize that ingress and egress. Mr. DiComo: For traffic both ways, yes. Mr. Engebretson: Traffic one way at a time with the tractor/trailer sitting there? Mr. DiComo: Yes because the doorway to the tractor/trailer is off to the east side of that so the tractor/trailer as it would be parked would be taking up approximately 10 feet of the 31 or 32 feet. It would be off to the east 14500 side of that extra wide driveway so the automobile traffic would be able to get past without having any trouble. `Jur Mr. Engebretson: How often do they have tractor/trailers in there making those kinds of deliveries? Mr. DiComo: For the Rite Aid store I don't know but I would imagine it is almost on a daily basis. Bob Kunkel: I have been a Livonia resident for 40 years. I am going to be one of the principle owners of this facility. The Rite Aid truck comes once a week, one major truck. They do it all by computerization. They debit through the cash register system back to the main operation and at the end of Friday they put their work order together. They load over the weekend and they would show up on Monday or Tuesday to deliver it. It is normally done in the morning or after hours late because they don't like interrupting their normal business. There is one truckload per week. Now there is a possibility if this store became very successful, that this could go to two trucks. They anticipate, based on their past experience, that it would be one truck a week. Mr. Engebretson: How many deliveries do you get on a weekly basis? Mr. Kunkel: I get UPS every day at about 3:30 in the afternoon and about 90% of `.► our goods come Federal Express or UPS. When I say UPS every day, it brings about 80%. Federal Express it brings something overnight because we needed one day service. Mr. Engebretson: So you are not dealing with tractors/trailers. Mr. Kunkel: Tractor/trailers is a rarity. You try to, in your golf business, bring them in just in time for inventory control. You hear this everywhere. We try to bring things in 30 to 40 at a time. It is most efficient going UPS. Mr. McCann: One of the things I noticed, if I am reading the plans correctly, Rite Aid is just going to have a double door entrance. It's not going to have like a garage door for their delivery doors? Mr. Kunkel: That is correct. Mr. McCann: That brings me to the question of why do you need a garage door entrance on yours? 14501 Mr. Kunkel: Actually that garage door was to have our van, we have a commercial van that we use between the stores, and we like to `"�► protect that inside at night. We have had some vandalism at our present location. Just in foresight we thought it would be nice to bring our van in under a garage facility and lock it up at night. Sometimes you load it the night before and you want to take off first thing in the morning, so you would like to have it in a secure area. Mr. McCann: What kind of a garage door have you decided to put in there? It looks like you are building a real beautiful building to me and I am not sure, because I can't picture it in the location, exactly how it is going to come out. As I am looking at your store, I don't know which is going to be more overpowering, looking at a garage door or looking at the store. Mr. Kunkel: The store, of course, sets up about 160 feet, and we go back about 110 feet back to that area but we would like to make that as subdued as possible. I don't think we really discussed the door but we would try to make it just a single garage door. We are not looking to put a double garage door in there. We want to try to maintain that brick front. We will try to paint the door the color of the brick or something like that. Mr. Engebretson: It would be safe to assume it would be more in the category of a residential type garage door? Mr. Kunkel: I would think it would be like a single car garage door. That type of thing. I think we would go with something with a steel overhang and there would probably be a secure door. I am sure they make that kind of door. I am sure it would have to be a commercial grade door we would have to put on there for security reasons. Mr. Engebretson: But in the size one would normally associate with a residential type of construction? Mr. Kunkel: Yes it would not be a commercial door 12 or 14 foot high. It would be a residential type door. High enough to take a Ford Econoline. That is what we would want to put in there. Mr. Alanskas: It would not be a roll-up door? It would be just like they use at home? 14502 Mr. DiComo: Like he said, it would be a commercial grade type garage door. It is not something that would roll up. It would probably be an insulated metal or commercial grade garage type door as opposed to a rolled door. Mr. Engebretson: Why don't you proceed Mr. DiComo. Mr. DiComo: Since the last time we spoke, again we brought the samples to show the brick selection, the shingle selection, the aluminum trim. The main materials of the building would be the brick, which is a soft reddish brown color. We brought a sample of the sandstone. This is the color of the sandstone, not necessarily the exact texture or shape. Obviously it is a very multi-shaped, multi-colored material. We have also selected a multi-color, but all in the green family, shingle. Of course, we have the trim. All the colors blend very well together. We think it will be a very nice color scheme for the building. Mr. Engebretson: Where will all that siding material be used? Mr. DiComo: The siding material is used only on the trim boards. We are planning on making the building as maintenance free as possible. It just makes the upkeep a lot easier on a structure like this. Obviously the shingles require nothing except replacing at a certain `,,,, time. All the trim pieces would be the green metal so they would not have to be repainted, and, of course, where you see the brick, some of the changes that we did make to the front elevation are instead of these being sandstone cornices here, we made them brick, and reduced the amount of brick on two portions of the elevation. What had happened, when Rite Aid had come with some requests as far as providing this large of a window space at the front of their store, after we looked at what they wanted to put up there and the size of their signage, which we are looking at now, and also with the amount of glass they wanted for their front entrance, we started to re-design it and we feel what we have come up with really is a separation between the Rite Aid and the Caddy Shack as far as the design, and also I think we have upgraded the look of the building. These areas we were getting 20 feet high of all brick and it was looking pretty mundane. In comparison with the rendered elevations that we did last time, we felt we made a nice upgrade in materials, and a nice upgrade in the look of the building. We feel the materials would be a nice separation between what would be the Caddy Shack golf operation and the Rite Aid operation. It is not much of a modification obviously. Our east elevation has remained the same. 14503 Mr. Engebretson: In the area just above the loading and unloading area for Rite Aid, the lighter color there, is that to indicate the sandstone material? stir Mr. DiComo: We initially had a plaster material above here (he pointed it out on the plan) to match the sandstone in color because signage is going to go in those locations. What we have done, we have taken that plaster which would match the sandstone color but is of a different texture, a smooth texture, in these two locations. Those were added as opposed to the brick all the way to the top at this point in time. Mr. Engebretson: Like a dryvet material? Mr. DiComo: Yes it is. Again, the window in the main entrance, they wanted the window and more plain material on top. After we started playing around with it elevation and color wise, we came up with switching materials to achieve a different look, or a better look as far as we were concerned. I think we have achieved a lot more harmony and a lot more excitement I think with this main elevation off Eight Mile Road. Mr. Engebretson: So this brick is everywhere. The sandstone for the two principle entrances and dryvet that matches up with the sandstone used to blend in some of the other areas in the front. Mr. DiComo: The dryvet and sandstone in color and then smooth in texture. Mr. LaPine: I am kind of confused on one thing. They have this window probably so they can get some signage in the window. Anyway, explain to me why we have to remove the brick because of the signs. I understand you said Rite Aid, because of their sign package, can't have the brick. Is that what you are telling me? Mr. DiComo: As far as what we are trying to do, they came with some suggestions or requests that we provide some sort of window area in the front and also to make an area for their signage. Mr. LaPine: If they are going to have the signs at only one or two locations, why can't we have the brick back at the other locations. If they are going to have their signs at the left there, fine, then on the right we could go back to the way it was going to be originally with the brick. 14504 Mr. DiComo: The reason we ended up with this elevation is we feel this is a better looking elevation as far as we have a building that is pretty overbearing with three sides right now of a lot of brick. We are err. trying to make that elevation a little more exciting, something that would pop out a little more, something that is more in keeping again with the residential tone yet being a commercial establishment. We feel, from our office, we came up with a lot of these suggestions as to why we are looking at a different front elevation. Mr. LaPine: I guess I might agree with you but do I understand you were taking some of the sandstone out of there? You are not going to be using as much sandstone as the one we originally saw? Mr. DiComo: Two areas (he pointed this out) In reviewing our elevation we did not want the sandstone in those two locations. Mr. LaPine: Give me the reason why. Mr. DiComo: It was aesthetics. We feel that anchoring the corners with the brick and having the lighter color in between is a better solution for the front elevation. Mr. Alanskas: Let me ask you this Dan, do you know are they going to come back and try to put signs on each part where it is smooth on all three parts of that building? Mr. DiComo: No, that has not been mentioned to me whatsoever. What we are working off right now are standards from a book that they have for signage and they would obviously like signage at the front entrance as opposed to the other two pieces. Mr. Alanskas: It looks to me, and I think Mr. LaPine, that they are trying to clear that whole front to put a lot of signage. That is why they want that clear flat look instead of brick all the way to the top. That kind of concerns me. Mr. Engebretson: I think Mr. DiComo said it was their idea not Rite Aid's idea. Mr. DiComo: I think we will also have to be back before you for signage. At that time I am sure Rite Aid will also be with us at that meeting to present what they would like. Mr. Engebretson: It is really hard to understand the presentation in some respects Dan because it has been cluttered up with colors there that really distort 14505 what it is you are presenting. The colors in the rendering don't begin to depict the colors that you are showing, and I think that it probably is going to look a lot better than that rendering. The .. rendering does not strike me as being the kind of thing that I would expect the ultimate product is going to look like. Mr. DiComo: It is very difficult to get the textures and colors. Mr. Engebretson: Well you have orange and brown stripes it looks like to me. Mr. DiComo: Those stripes obviously do not depict it. Mr. Engebretson: I think it may throw the whole thing off The colors of the roof materials aren't the same as your materials. That is why we like to see your materials. If we had to deal with that rendering, I think you would have an unsuccessful presentation here tonight. We have to factor in our trust in you and the work your firm has done over the years. Looking at these materials and trying to apply all of that to this sketch, which obviously is computer generated and probably, I don't know what the new standard is these days, but it is kind of mediocre compared to the kinds of things that you used to do, but I guess that is mediocrity creeping into your profession as well. I am glad we have the materials as well. Mr. LaPine: I notice on your site plan here in the southwest corner where parking is, I assume that is being left open for a freestanding sign in that location? Mr. DiComo: A sign of some sort yes. On the landscape plan I think it just says there will be a sign. Mr. LaPine: Would that be a combination sign for both Caddy Shack and Rite Aid? Mr. DiComo: Yes. Mr. LaPine: Well I am not going to look too favorably on it. I am going to let you know ahead of time. Mr. DiComo: The idea is we would look for a monument sign at that location. Mr. Engebretson: John, wouldn't a monument sign be something not necessarily highlighting both businesses, one or the other or something kind of unique or generic to that particular location? 14506 Mr. Nagy: It must be low profile, no higher than 6 feet by ordinance. Mr. Engebretson: But unlikely to have both names on it? Mr. Nagy: You are right. Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman, I have one other thing. I noticed in the Engineering Department report it said it may be necessary to prohibit left hand turn movements from southbound Newburgh Road to the north drive approach due to its proximity with the left turn lane on Newburgh Road. John, should we have something in our motion to prohibit left hand turns there? Mr. Nagy: You can if you wish but Newburgh Road is a City road and the Engineering Department will deal with it, but if you feel more comfortable, you can certainly add it. Mr. LaPine: As long as they are going to deal with it because I can see where that could create a problem with a line of cars making left hand turns. Mr. Engebretson: Haven't we determined in the past John that it is unenforceable, those directional signs on property like that? I am thinking of Yum-Yum Donuts and some places like that. Mr. Nagy: It is unenforceable but still you hope that the motoring public would read it and take heed to it. Mr. Engebretson: I think a lot of people leaving the Caddy Shack facility are going to be heading straight for Whispering Willows, which is 75 feet yards south, so they are going to want to turn left. Dan, I have a very important question for you. I was watching the Council meeting the other night and in all the years I have been watching them and in all the years I have been here, I have never heard this question come up either there or here, but I want to ask you where are you planning to put your utility meters on this building? Mr. DiComo: We are really not that far along. Being honest with you, we have not gotten into any working drawings. We have the existing utilities scoped out but it is not something we have determined at this point in time. Mr. Engebretson: Well I want to tell you where they won't be. They won't be facing Eight Mile Road, and they won't be facing Newburgh Road. We have a nice, new building going up at Merriman and Five Mile 14507 Road, where the Showerman's facility is being renovated and expanded, and suddenly there are a whole battery of meters facing Five Mile Road, which had never been discussed. I don't think we have ever taken those matters up but from now on we surely will. They are not attractive. I have gone by several times. I don't know what we can do about it, if anything. How we can screen that, but I think we want that commitment from Mr. Kunkel that under no circumstances will they be facing either of those major roads. Mr. Kunkel: I would agree with that. Mr. Engebretson: I was just wondering when we are going through a process like this would architects normally have thought that through as to where those meters would be placed? Mr. DiComo: Not at this point in time but it is very easy to work with the utilities. Usually it is our desire to put them where they are not seen. Mr. Engebretson: Of course. Mr. DiComo: I don't understand. You can always work with a utility to achieve that goal. Mr. Engebretson: I was flabbergasted when I heard Councilman Taylor bring that up \., the other night. I went right down to look at that and sure enough there they are facing Five Mile Road so that is a question that is going to get asked on a regular basis now. Mr. DiComo: We always put them somewhere where they are not visible as people drive by. Mr. Morrow: The only time I can remember in the past when it has come up was with apartment buildings where they have maybe 10 to 15 apartments in one building and we try to keep the bank of individual meters from view. We have two tenants here and hopefully they can hide them. Mr. DiComo: As an owner occupied building I am sure he doesn't want to look at them every day either. Mr. Engebretson: We probably won't put it in the motion but it is a matter of public record. On a motion duly made by Mrs. Blomberg, seconded by Mr. McCann and unanimously approved, it was 14508 #11-226-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve `. Petition 95-10-8-25 by DiComo Associates requesting approval for all plans required by Section 18.58 of Zoning Ordinance #543 in connection with a proposal to construct a commercial building on property located at 37355 Eight Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 5 subject to the following conditions: 1) That the Site Plan marked A-1 dated 10/26/95 as received by the Planning Commission on November 9, 1995 prepared by DiComo Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2) That the parking spaces for the entire site shall be double striped; 3) That the trash dumpsite area is to be enclosed on three sides with the same brick used in the construction of the principle building and the wooden enclosure gates, when not in use, shall be maintained and closed at all times; 4) That the Building Elevation Plans marked A-5 & A-6 dated 10/30/95 prepared by DiComo Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 5) That the Landscape Plan dated 11/13/95 prepared by DiComo Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6) That all signage for this site shall come back before the Planning Commission for their review and approval. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Engebretson: I would ask Mr. DiComo or Mr. Kunkel to please encourage those Rite Aid folks when they come in with their sign package to stay within the City ordinance and point out to them our ordinance restriction on window signage. That is a wonderful entrance to the City and it is very important to us, and to you, that we play by the rules there and make that first impression of Livonia as wonderful and exciting as we can. Mr. Alanskas, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Sign Permit Application by Home Quarters Warehouse, Inc. requesting approval to change the location of one of the wall signs for the commercial building located at 20000 Haggerty Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6. 14509 Mr. Miller: This is the Home Quarters that is located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven and Eight Mile Roads. They are proposing to relocate one of their "HQ" logo signs. These signs were approved by the Planning Commission and City Council back in July of 1995. As it is how the "HQ" logo sign is on the west elevation, which faces Haggerty Road. They would like to relocate it on the north elevation of the store, which would face Target and Eight Mile Road. Basically they are just going around the corner and relocating this same sign. There is no additional signage to this proposal. It is the same sign so they will have the exact signage as they have now, and I guess the petitioner has explained that this is very hard to see from Haggerty Road and they believe by relocating it on the north elevation, it can be seen by people coming southbound on Haggerty Road from Eight Mile Road. Mr. Engebretson: Does the petitioner want to add anything to that? Petitioner: I think he did a very good job. We just want to get it moved. Mr. Engebretson: It sounds like a reasonable proposal. On a motion duly made by Mr. McCann, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously approved, it was `or #11-127-95 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that the Sign Permit Application by Home Quarters Warehouse, Inc. requesting approval to change the location of one of the wall signs for the commercial building located at 20000 Haggerty Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6 be approved subject to the following condition: 1) That the Sign Package by Home Quarters, received by the Planning Commission on October 25, 1995, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to. as well as subject to the following additional condition required by the Zoning Board of Appeals: 1) That the facade of the building on the westerly elevation is to be restored to its original condition upon relocation of the sign. Mr. Engebretson, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. 14510 On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 714th Regular Meeting `..• held on November 14, 1995 was adjourned at 8:33 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION C\ , ,3"`v 3 Robert Alanskas, Secretary ATTEST: 11, , I A JacEngebf--tson, Chairman Jg a:11 14min.cpc