HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1951-12-13 f)7
MINUTES OF THE ADJOURNED NINETEENTH
SPECIAL HEFTING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION
The adjourned nineteenth special meeting of the Planning Commission was held
on December 13, 1951 at 33110 Five Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan.
Chairman George Bentley called the meeting to order at approximately 8:05 PM
and roll call was taken with the following result:
Members present: George Bentley Harold Bower Helen Byers
Edwin Conway Dallas Hay Robert MacIntyre
Walter Russell
Members absent: Carson Johnston and Clarence Jahn
Also present were Mr. Wm Brashear, City Attorney and Mr. Malcolm Waring,
Planning Consultant; together with Mayor Jesse Ziegler, School Board
members and the City Council.
The Chair announced that before anything else was considered, Mr. Folsom,
Chairman of the Committee for the School Board, would like to have the floor.
Planning Commission members received copies of the minutes of the first
meeting of the Board of Education Committee and Parks and Recreation Com-
mittee joint meeting and shared same with the members of the City Council.
As a result of the above-mentioned meeting, the following are the presiding
officers:
Mr. J. Folsom, President
Mr. C. Rickert, Vice President
Mrs. C. Cook, Secretary
Mr. Folsom said that his group expected to carry on this work of investi-
gating future school sites and wanted to get at it as quickly as possible.
He brought one of his members, Dave Meinzinger, Consultant, to explain what
the committee wanted to have. Mr. Folsom said that his committee felt that
the Planning Commission should work with the Clarenceville and Cooper
School Districts and further he would like to have representation from
those districts at the committee meetings as problems come up that require
their consultation.
Upon a motion duly made by Dallas Hay, seconded by Harold Bower and unani-
mously carried, it was
RESOLVED, to appoint one member from the Clarenceville and one
member from the Cooper School District to attend the meetings
held by the School Board and Parks and Recreation Committees.
At approximately 8:15 PM, Clarence Jahn arrived.
Mr. Meinzinger reported that the Joint Study Committee for Schools-
Parks-Recreation of the City of Livonia request that the Planning Commission
furnish the committee with:
A. A map of the City of Livonia showing:
1) Population density
2) Areas zoned for industry
3) Areas zoned for commercial purposes
4) Areas confined to definite restrictions such as
cemeteries, race track, etc.
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B. A copy of plats of quarter sections, and
C. A recent aerial photomontage of the City of Livonia
for the purpose of securing information for computing the study in prepar-
ation for recommending school sites, (Elementary, Junior High and Senior
High) , park areas, playfields and playgrounds.
The Chair asked if anyone had any questions or suggestions.
It was suggested that the Township Zoning Map be brought up-to-date. Mr.
Waring displayed a population density map of Warren and explained that it
is possible to see at a glance where the homes are located.
Miss Byers explained that the City Council had tabled the Planning Com-
mission's request for a special appropriation of 6/9/51 for Waring and
Johnson to make a complete survey of existing conditions and uses of land
structures.
Mr. Waring said that Detroit Edison has aerial maps available that were
made in 1948, but any construction that went up since 148 does not show.
At 8:20 PM, the members of the School Board left the meeting.
Miss Byers read a letter dated December 6, 1951 addressed to the City of
Livonia Planning Commission from Mr. Neil J. Belfy, 10007 Arcola. Mr.
Belfy wrote the letter chiefly to express his apology for requesting the
Planning Commission's opinion at the public hearing held on December 5th,
before all evidence was in. He proclaimed his ignorance of public hearings
and procedures of this nature, and finally commended the Planning Commission
for its performance.
There were two gentlemen present who asked the Chair where they could locate
an asphalt plant in Livonia. Mr. Bentley advised them that they were out
of order as this was a special meeting.
The Chair asked Mr. Brashear if he would report to the group regarding the
present status of the Civic Center.
Mr. Brashear said that the picture is just about complete. The City pur-
chased 22 acres from Mr. Petersime for $25,000. He then presented a pro-
posed resolution.
There followed an informal discussion. The parking area B of 22 acres will
remain the property of Mr. Petersime even though they develop it and main-
tain same for public use. The deed for parcel B has been returned to Mr.
Petersime so that he may develop same as private enterprise.
At 8:35 PM, Mr. Herald Hammel arrived.
Mr. Brashear advised that as long as streets and alleys are vacated they
do not have to be replatted. The easiest way is to vacate the whole sub-
division. There are several houses and they will have to be left as is.
It is not permissible to cut off access to the homes that are there now.
A motion duly made by Dallas Hay, seconded by Helen Byers, and it was
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RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia, Wayne County, Michigan, does hereby take official
notice of the resolution adopted by the City Council on
December 8, 1951, pertaining to Part II of the Master Plan
of the City of Livonia, which Part II is also known as Civic
and Central Business Center Plan; that, inasmuch as said resolution
of the City Council has in no way changed, modified or affected
said Part II of the Master Plan, but rather deals with certain
deeds, which are not a part of the plan, and with certain proposed
obligations of theCity, which likewise are not a part of the plan,
the City Planning Commission, pursuant to the provisions of Act
285 of the Michigan Public Acts of 1931, as amended, having duly
held a public hearing on said Part II and having given proper
notice of such hearing as provided by law, does hereby adopt said
Part II as part of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia; that the
area to be affected by said Part II and a detailed description
of said part is contained in the attached map prepared by Waring
and Johnson, Planning Consultants, and made a part hereof by this
reference; that a Civic and Central Business Center, as described
on said map, is hereby created and established, and shall consist
of three districts, designated (A) , (B), and (C) ; that all land in
said district (A) shall be used only for municipal, Civic Center
purposes such as a site for city hall, auditorium, library and other
desirable civic buildings, together with grounds and parking area
reasonably necessary or incidental for such purposes; that all
land in said district (B) shall be used only as a parking area,
which shall be available for use by the public at all times and
on which parking facilities may be used by owners and tenants of
adjacent business properties, together with their customers; that
all land in said district (C) shall be used only for such purposes
as are permitted in C-2 (General Business or Commercial) districts,
as defined in the Zoning Ordinance; that all prior resolutions or
parts of resolutions in conflict herewith are hereby rescinded only
to the extent necessary to give this resolution full force and effect;
that this resolution shall be recorded on said map by the identifying
signatures of the Chairman and Secretary of the City Planning
Commission; and that an attested copy of said Part II shall be
certified to the Council and to the Register of Deeds for the County
of Wayne.
A roll call was taken with the following results:
AYES: George Bentley
Harold Bower
Helen Byers
Edwin Conway
Dallas Hay
Clarence Jahn
Robert MacIntyre
Walter Russell
IL: NAYS: None
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Chairman Bentley advised that the Subdivision Rules and Regulations would
be discussed at this time. He said that they would have to be rewritten
after the suggestions were adequately considered and called upon Mr.
Waring to read the suggestions that were prepared by Waring and Johnson
1[4S ' Dated November 29, 1951.
"Subdivision regulations be in the form of a city ordinance as is
provided for in Sections 2 and 14 of the Municipal Planning Com-
mission Act. Such an ordinance could clearly state the duties of the
Planning Commission, and the scope of its authority to approve or
disapprove matters pertaining to planning, while the approval of
utilities, roads, walks and/or establishing suitable bond to insure
installation of certain utilities or improvements could be clearly
defined as a duty of the City Council to administer.
4.02 Streets
(e) Change 300 feet to read 400 feet.
(f) Dedication of Half-streets. The dedication of half-streets
will not be permitted where a subdivision adjoins undeveloped
property except such major streets as called for on the Master
Thorofare Plan; and wherever there already exists a dedicated
and recorded half-street or alley on an adjoining plat. The
other half must be dedicated on the proposed plat to make
the street or alley complete.
(g) Dead-End Streets. Dead end streets shall not exceed four (400)
hundred feet in length. However, the Planning Commission may,
under specific existing conditions, where topographic conditions
indicate a hardship would be caused and where a deviation might
I[: still serve the best interests of the City, allow an extension
of a dead-end street up to a total length of six (600) hundred
feet.
(h) Building Lines and Set Back Lines. Building lines shall
conform to the minimum requirements of the Zoning Ordinance and
the Master Thorofare Plan.
(i) Street Widths. The width for major streets shall conform to
the width designated on the Master Thorofare Plan. The minimum
width for minor streets shall be sixty (60) feet.
4.06 Change whall to shall.
4.07 Section Lots
(a) Size of Lots.
1. No lot classified as residential, located in Sections 34,
35 or 36 of the City, shall be platted that is less than
fifty-five (55) feet in width and less than sixty-six hundred
(6600) square feet in area.
2. No lot classified as residential, located in Sections 1 to
33 inclusive, shall be platted that is less than sixty (60)
feet in width and less than seventy-two hundred (7200) square
feet in area.
3. When a parcel of land is subdivided into larger lots or
parcels, one-half (1/2) acre or more in size, the depth of
such lots or parcels of land shall not be greater than four
(4) times the front width.
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4.11 Off-Street Parking. No plat or subdivision shall be approved
unless the owner or subdivider thereof has complied with all pro-
visions of the Zoning Ordinance pertaining to off-street parking. In
no case shall the amount of space reserved for off-street parking be
less than two (2) times the area allowed for floor area of a commer-
cial building."
Regarding 4.02 (e) , Mr. Waring said that they would like to keep at 400
because of the fire insurance ratings. The rating on a community takes
into consideration these dead-end streets. also.
Mr. Jahn asked Mr. Waring what he proposed to do over here on Bell Creek.
Mr. Waring said they are suggesting an outlet.
Regarding half-streets. Mr. Waring said that when the adjacent land is
subdivided, they give the half-street.
Mayor Ziegler said that the existing half-streets are the city's obligation.
There was a prolonged discussion on half-streets by all members present.
Mr. Wolf said that in order to put in a subdivision it is necessary to
put in a street on each side of the property. It makes it rough to sub-
divide a piece of land and get FHA loans.
Mr. Waring said that when the Planning Commission approves plats they
should look over the whole picture.
Mr. Russell said that the Rules and Regulations are worded so that the
problem of half-streets would be taken care of.
Mr. Jahn asked what would happen on another deal like the Cathedral St. deal.
There was a short discussion regarding Cathedral Street.
Mr. Waring said that in some places you find they have places that cannot
be changed. These requirements would have a bearing on that situation and
rifle ranges and long narrow places would be avoided where the subdivider
is trying to get out of building roads. Mr. Waring also pointed out that
these rules are for new subdivisions and are not retroactive.
Mr. Wolf said that when the new zoning on off-street parking goes into
effect, the people on Plymouth Road will have a problem to cope with. He
wanted to know if there was anything in the regulations that required a
certain area for off-street parking regardless of where they built. If
they build on a 20 foot lot, they would have to build a certain type of
business building to allow for sufficient parking.
Mr. Waring said that all depended on the use.
Mr. Wolf said that on Plymouth Road where there are several stores in
one block, the people have a problem of finding an area to purchase as
the block is nearly all taken up with stores now in business. Would it
be possible for the lots to be a certain depth and allow the building to
I[: extend back a certain distance only, to allow for parking in the rear?
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Mr. Conway asked if a person having a 20 foot lot is obligated to leave
a parking area. Mr. Waring advised that this is for new subdivisions. The
property owner would have to show where the parking area is when his plans
are submitted and he may not be able to build as large a building. In
some instances merchants have purchased lots with houses on them and
proceeded to tear the houses down and use the lot or lots for parking area
where there is no other available.
Mr. Edgar asked if Mr. Waring had given consideration to the change of
usage.
Mr. Waring said that would have to be taken up with the building inspector.
Old buildings are not properly constructed and would have to be changed to
comply.
Owing to the changes that do take place when a building is sold, the
problem presented itself of how an owner copes with a situation like this.
Regarding the Rosedale Gardens area, Mr. Waring suggested that the Planning
Commission make a study for those merchants and present the facts and
suggestions to them for their use in acquiring off-street parking facilities.
The City of Wayne averages approximately $80. per year per meter since the
parking meters have been installed.
Chairman Bentley asked if there were any other questions.
Mr. Hammel questioned Section 3.04. He said that Mr. Waring may have cor-
rected this in his recommendations regarding "lists that plats will show.
This information should be on the plat." Mr. Hammel wanted to know if
the wording had been changed to indicate it is supplemental information
and not on the plat itself.
Miss Byers read a letter from the Sheldon Land Company dated December
13, 1951 addressed to Mr. Brashear. The letter covered the study of the
new proposal for regulating the subdivision of land in Livonia. It read
in part as follows:
"ARTICLE IV.
PLOTTING REGULATIONS AND REQUIRED;NTS
SECTION 4.02 STETS"
1. (J) Street Grades 'the minimum grade allowed shall be 0.5 per cent.'
On our relatively flat land we have found that grades of 0.25
per cent provides adequate drainage on concrete pavement.
2. (G) Dead-End Streets 'Dead-end streets will not be approved if they
exceed four hundred (400) feet in length. '
and
3. Section 4.06 Blocks 'Residential blocks shall not be less than two
hundred (200) feet wide, they shall not be less than
six hundred sixty (660) feet long nor more than twelve
hundred (1200) feet.'
I[: These latter two regulations would prevent approval of a residential
block of any length between four hundred (400) and six hundred sixty
(660) feet."
1()f)
Mr. Hammel said it is possible to make water run on 0.3 per cent. We
would like to see it a little bit more where you can get it. It should be
classified as to the type of pavement built. We are thinking of the over-
all picture. In trying to set up a standard, you could have 0.4 for con-
crete and 0.5 for other.
At 9:35 PM, Walter Bissell left the meeting.
It should be written in the rules that the Planning Commission may make
changes.
Mr. Hammel asked about the 1200 feet. He asked if it was intended that
these blocks be divided.
Mr. Waring said it is up to the subdivider, a block longer than 800 feet
would have to leave a strip.
Mr. Bentley asked Mr. Hammel how many Sheldon has provided, and Mr. Hammel
advised 3.
Mr. Wolf - If you enforce less than a quarter of a mile, you would stop
subdividing. You don't want to have to give cross streets. Every quarter
of mile should be enough. Larger parcels don't necessitate too many
cross streets.
Mr. Waring said the 1200 feet would allow for half mile blocks.
Mr. Hammel asked why not change 1200 feet to 1/4 mile.
Mr. Brashear said that a lot of good had been accomplished. He said it
helps a lot to get a letter on the suggestions like the Sheldon Land Co.
presented. It makes it much easier to go over the changes. Mr. Brashear
said he did not think an ordinance could be made. The law is that it would
be adopted by the Planning Commission in the same manner as an ordinance
but they are not an ordinance. Only the Council can make an ordinance. An
ordinance contains a penalty and this is not of the nature to require a
penalty. If the regulations are not complied with, the Planning Commission
does not have to approve the plat. The Council has the right to adopt an
ordinance on the submission of plats under the Platting Act.
Miss Byers asked Mr. Brashear about the committee that Mr. Edgar was on.
How does it effect Section 4.02. How will it conform with what is in the
regulations?
Mr. Brashear advised that they are just adding to it. It would not interfere.
Mr. Waring said that with what information he has he can put these in a
form for presentation at the next meeting. He will rewrite those particular
sections for approval.
Miss Byers said that at the previous joint meeting, Mr. Hammel brought up
3.04 under B #1, why are we requiring something that the Board of Auditors
did not.
Mr. Hammel advised that the Board of Auditors do check the titles. There is
probably no harm if you want it done.
Mr. Brashear said that there is a provision that the City Council in its
approval may require it. He suggested that it be left out.
Mr. MacIntyre asked if it would be right to pass an ordinance on that. If
an ordinance is passed by the Council it becomes something permanent. If
the regulations are adopted, would they be protected the same as an ordi-
nance.
Mr. Brashear said that an ordinance can be changed just as easy as regu-
lations, and he then read some information.
Upon a motion duly made by Dallas Hay, seconded by Clarence Jahn, it was
RESOLVED, to table Petition $42 for further study.
Roll call was taken with the following result:
AYES: George Bentley
Harold Bower
Helen Byers
Edwin Conway
Dallas Hay
Clarence Jahn
Robert Maclntyre
NAYS: None
There was a discussion regarding motels. A meeting with the Board of
Appeals might help the situation.
A statement was presented for janitor service following the public hearing
of December 5, 1951. Two hours work at time and one-half. Total amount $4.50.
A statement was presented from Waring and Johnson in the amount of $135.72
dated December 1, 1951 covering November services.
Upon a motion duly made by Harold Bower, seconded by Robert Maclntyre and
unanimously carried, it was
RESOLVED, to refer the janitor's statement in the amount of $4.50
to the City Council for payment, and it was
FURTHER RESOLVED, to refer Waring and Johnson's statement in the
amount of $135.72 to the City Council for payment.
There was a brief discussion regarding the Lone Pines Tavern petition.
Mr. Bentley asked what was to be done on the map of the city to show
the population den8ity in order to progress with studies, etc. He said
this had come up before. It was decided that the zoning map would be used
for the present. Multiple dwellings will have to be planned.
Mr. Wolf said that non-conforming places should be spotted.
Mayor Ziegler said that as soon as the field books are in, the type of
building could be designated. The industry and zoning can be taken from
the zoning map. The map we now have is from the assessors.
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The Chair said it would be left up to Mayor Ziegler to see what he could do.
Mr. Bower suggested that the map that could be made available by Mayor
Ziegler would be sufficient at present, and the survey could be made later.
Upon a motion duly made by Dallas Hay, seconded by Clarence Jahn and unani-
mously carried, it was
RESOLVED, not to hold the next regular meeting on Wednesday,
December 26, 1951 but postpone it until Wednesday, January
9, 1952.
Upon a motion duly made by Clarence Jahn, seconded and rnenimously carried,
it was
RESOLVED, to adjourn this meeting.
Thereupon at approximately 10:40 PM, the Chair declared the meeting adjourned.
Helen E. Byers, Se tart'
ATTESTED:
AP
L44. ,_ .'
George N. :entley, Chairman