HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1950-10-11 63 .
MINUTES OF TEE PUBLIC HEARING
OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF
TIDE CITY OF LIVONIA
October 11 1950
Members present: Edwin Conway Walter Russell
Robert MacIntyre Carson Johnston
George Bentley Helen Byers
Harold Bower Dallas Hay
Clarence Jahn
Also present : Mr. Raring, Consultant and Mr. ��'illiam
Brashear, attorney.
Chairman: This meeting is called to listen to petitions
concerning changes of zoning.
Petition 48. Earl L. and Metta Bilger, 22550 W. 7 Mile Road,
Detroit 19. Petitioners not present.
Petition ,'9. L. I.I. Batson, 19730 Farmington Road.
Ir. Batson, 19 730 Farmington Road: 4e have had several chances
to sell this property, but the restrictions are not in accord-
ance with what people want to erect. This should be business
property as there are stores a short distance east.
No one present opposed.
h?r. Johnston: What do people wanting to buy propose to use it
for?
Answer: One wants it for a motel. That was turned down. There
are several other buyers but they didn't say what they wanted to
build. 'This property is 353 feet in depth. The man next door
said that he would take the additional 53 feet, leaving 300 feet
for business property.
Petition i10. Ralph J. Kegler and hathleen L. Kegler, 35800
E. Ann Arbor Trail.
Petitioners not present.
Petition #11. Has been withdrawn.
Petition ii12. Clifford C. Brown, Inkster, Michigan. Construction
of motel in any C-2 property subject to approval of Zoning Board.
No arguments for or against. Matter for the decision of the 4_�oard.
Yr. Nixon: 34965 ,adsworth: Hotels should not be objected to
on Plymouth Road.
65
_ - Ralph Kotila, 11608 Boston Post Rd. If the building code
was changed so that these were on high enough level, it
would be all right. As long as they had others in the city
it should be all right.
Mr. Nixon: V.hat about t'_.e outside area? Classify the out-
side area.
Upon a motion, duly made, seconded and unanimously carried,
it was
RESOLVED, That the Paragraph (h) set forth in
Petition Number 12 be and hereby is approved
as an amendment to Section 11.01 of Ordinance
Number 7, except that the last sentence of
said Paragraph which reads as follows :
"A 'motel ' is defined as a business com-
prising a dwelling unit or group of dwell-
ing units so arranged as to furnish over-
night accommodations for transient guests. "
is hereby amended to and changed to read as follows :
"A 'motel ' is defined as a business com-
prising at least 3 or _ore dwelling: units
so arranged as to furnish over-night
accommodations for transient guests" :
and the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend
that the Council adopt the above amendment as above
changed.
Petition ;'13. Pyr. L irs. Dipboye-Earion E. and Thomas E.
Victor Hess, and wife, Anna
Arthur Pitchell and wife, Joan
Robert A. Acchione
Arthur C. Monroe and wife, Clara
F. B. Hall
Mrs. May E. Ryan
Mr. Robert A. Acchione, 2710 David Stott Building, Detroit 26,
Mich: This city is growing amazingly. Plymouth Road is a
national highway. It is not attractive planning to have business
on one side andresidence on the other. If people on one side
can have business property, why not the other side? Plymouth
Road is not a good place to build a home and raise children.
It is a street designed for business. V,e are appealing to the
Board to change it to business. The frontage along Plymouth
load should be changed to business frontage throughout the
City of Livonia for the good of the City. 1y property consists
1 of two lots 100 feet by 200 feet recorded as residential.
1
61
Arthur Monroe, 6509 Linzee, Detroit: I own lots 8 and 9. I
would like to see it changed to business property.
pr. Hess, 30471 Standish: I own lots 3 and 4. At one time I
intended to build a home. But since the traffic is so heavy on
Plymouth Road, I feel that it is not the place for private
residence. It is the logical plat_: for business frontage. It
would bring in more tax returns.
Thomas E. Dipboye, 11607 Boston Post Rd. i own lot j'2. Several
years ago it was all right for residence property but today there
is too much traffic. I could have sold it if it was business
frontage. It could not be sold for residential. I would be
glad to see that it Las not sold to anything objectionable.
Arthur J. Mitchell: ; 5, Plymouth. i am of the same opinion
as Mr. Dipboye.
Mr. I aclntyre : You have only 2C�0 feet depth. The new set up
in the City calls for 300 feet. If we were to allow those
lots to go into business, wouldn 't the other business people
think that they were being discriminated against? To be a
business lot it must he 300 feet deep to allow for off the
street parking.
F. B. Hall, 30900 Plymouth Road. lho authorized my name to be
put on this list. 'de live on Plymouth Road opposite Mayne
Road. ?,`e have put a lot of coney into our home. The original
restrictions are Food until 1965. . e do not want restriction
chanced.
+,r. Brashear: There has recently been tried in Wayne County
Circuit court a case involving; a strip of land in Highland
Park .hich has been restricted for residence for years and
years. The City of Highland Park attempted to change it to
b�usiness. was case decided b� Judge Miller and ha :.
gone to the Michigan Supreme Court. Judge Miller decided
that ori`final restrictions would hold. His decision is
being appealed to Michigan Supreme Court.
Mr. Nixon:iNix against am =gainst any change in restriction. People
who bought this peoperty knew it was residential property when
they bought. Any change would be wrong.
Mrs. Ryan: I was forced to build that place on Plymouth Road
because they wouldn 't rezone other property unless we kept
75 feet for a home.
Ir. Oohnston: What is the date of the original subdivision
restriction?
Restrictions may ,e changed after January 1, 1964 by
��nsti�aer: y
the consent of two-thirds owners of the property.
69
Yr. Acchione : 'when this property was subdivided the City of
Livonia was not in existence. The City Planning Commission
does have regular authority to change restriction.
r. Brashear: The City, acting through its Planning Commission,
has a right to decide a question of zoning contrary to That the
court decides. I would recommend that this be held over until
next public hearing.
Mr. Johnston: The question cf the Planning Commission's authority
is involved. have to Lie. our common sense on this.
Mr. Dipboye : `Vere are you going to find 300 foot lots on
Plymouth Road? There is already business frontage which is
not 300 feet deep.
Yr. Johnston: Motion made that this be tabled until the
meeting of the Planning Commission to be held four weeks from
tonight to ;dive both sides an opportunity to prepare aru_ ents.
Seccn.c : Fr. Kay.
Motion. carried.
Petition Tx'14. Clarence K. Rathburn, Anna E. Hathburn, Kenneth
Rathburn, Madelon Rathburn.
I
Petitioners not present.
Petition. , 15. Amend Ordinance ,`7.
Mr. Caring: In thinking, of zoning, it is up to the PlanninE,
Commission to think of the health of the community Thenit
comes to size of lots. In some areas we have water and sewer.
In that area the lots could be smaller. ':hen we attempt to
build inthe outer areas on smaller lots, they have trouble
with well Later becoming poluted. From the health standpoint
where there is no sewer and Tater, the lots must be larger.
The county and State go along with the local health and fire
commissions in the recommendations in size. 9000 square feet
would be a minimum.
Kr. Humphrey: If this City is going to build for the future,
lots : all over should be the same size.
Ir. Johnston: There is a vast difference between lots with
improvements and without.
Mr. Humphrey: it cost more to put in improvements in a
40 foot lot or a 60 foot lot?
Kotila, 11608 Boston Post Road. These improvements are on
55 foot lots. If I own a 60 foot lot in this area, I will be
assessed for laying pipe in front of my 60 feet. illy shouldn 't
the people everywhere pay for what they have.
/ I
Mr. Johnston: You have a 60 foot lot. You ask for improve rents.
In order to sell that bond, the whole City of Livonia must be
charged with it.
Mr. haclntyre: Since we incorporated as a City, we have been
moving very fast. Some people in business have had the habit of
pushing the common man along so long and no one would ever
voice any opinion. I have nothing to exploit in this City.
I am looking at it from the point of view of the little fellow.
The people who have been moving from surroundingdistricts out here
have been coming out because of the .-ider space on which they
could build homes, not houses. You cannot build a home on a small
lot. The people should be able to come out here and choose a
lot of the size of their liking. sixty feet should be classed
as a minimum.- People should be allowed to choose the size of
lots they want. If they want space, they will pay for it. ure
have a well-oiled real estate lobby working in Livonia. 1.e
must stop anything happening to this City like what has happened
to Detroit, Highland Park, etc. They come out here looking for
space. Lot them have the size of lot they want. This City must
be run by the City officers, not by the real estate people.
i'i=r. Johnston: I am in the real estate business. I live in
Rosedale Gardens and have for years. When I cam here to live
there were 25 houses in Rosedale Gardens. Twenty-two were lost
in the depression. I have no brief to hold for any real estate
lobby. ,nenthe cost of a 60 foot lot makes it
1� n I say that
prohibitive for aman to come out here , I speak from experience.
:.hen you have a wide lot, there is no question that the taxes are
high. My 60 foot lot in Rosedale Gardens costs more than it
would in any unimproved sectionin the City.
Mr. Nixon: In the future it will have to come that we will have
improvements. '¢ie already have water. Ode already have electricity
and gas. As far as sewers go, I don't want them. I have a
perfectly good septic tank. Sixty feet is a small minimum.
think it should be 80 or 100 feet.
Yr. Maclntyre : I resent the lobbying for real estate. I have
nothing to sell. I want to live in the City of Livonia in peace.
34065 Standish, Paden Village : I lived on a 35
foot lot in Detroit. I came out here to get room. I will be
Flad to pay what it costs.
Mr. Humphrey: The City will have to float bonds for these
improvements. 1.ho is going, to pay them? The man who owns the
lot. People pay for the bonds. 1:e come out here with that
intention. Improvements cost and Te are : illing to pay for them.
Hr. Mxo_n_: I don 't want to ever compare this with Detroit.
Let 's keep it different.
7 3
-i Miss Byers : I live in this proposed Zone I. In my opinion a
55 foot lot today with the style of home being built now is
no wider than a 40 or 45 foot lot a few years ago. The
minimum lot should be 60 feet with at least 15 feet on either
side. Congested areas could be future slums. Zone I is in
a difficult position. In my opinion 55 foot lots are not
wide enough.
Yr. Conway: In order to survive out here, we must have industry.
I don 't think that everybody in these plants can afford to have
a home costing ;;14,000 or x15,000. If we set 55 feet as a
minimum, those who want more space can buy two lots.
Mr. Kotila: I go in to Highland Park every day to work. I have
no desire to buy a 35 foot lot in Highland Park. I have 120
feet out here. I don 't make a lot of money but I am able to
pay for it. If we are going to have a minimum it should be
uniform all over the City.
Mr. Nixon: Lots should be uniform in size.
Mr. Humphrey: There have been a lot of people moving out
from Detroit. Are there any less people moving out since we
have beer a City than before?
t Mr. Hay: I would like to know where these people who are here
live. :,re they representative of the whole City: Result,
t majority of those present were from the vicinity of Alden Village.
Mr. Harry T There are more People interested in Livonia
,:o1fe . -
today than ever before. If anybody thinks that there is any
shortage of people who want to live cut here, they are wrong.
In the last 25 years, when I put on a community, I tried to
put on a good one. The buying; public are willing to drive a
little farther so that they have things more pleasant for
their f? ilies. I think people who come away out here from
the city want a bigger lot. I don't think that the extra
cost of the larger lot will retard growth� at all. I think it
is a big argument to get people out here. One of the biggest
selling points out here is to have larger lots. It costs as
much to build a house on a small lot as on a large lot. The
objection to having a minimum lot size is small. You might
have two lots , but maybe the people next door would build on
one lot. A community like this wil1 not look well.
Mr. Johnston: I think lots should be large enough re in that
t'_ne
houses cannot be built on such. small lots as
new Rosedale Gardens property and destroy the value of the
rest of the property.
_ i Mr. Wolfe : It is my opinion that it would be discriminatory
if you set a minimum size lot where all improvements are in
andVa little larger size where all improvements are not in.
Mr. Nixon: This community has been poluted with 55 lots. I
contend these lots should be CO feet.
Public meeting adjourned 10:10 P.M.
75
Meeting of the Planning Commission called to order by the Chairman.
Mr. Johnston: In this discussion there has been some personal
animosity. Le are mere to do the best we can. I would like an
apology for the remarks made.
Mr. MacIntyre : I will not apologize.
Mr. Johnston: I refuse to serve if there is no apology.
Chairman: The question has come up about the character of these
remarks made by Mr. Maclntyre and Mr. Johnston and Mr. Johnston
has asked for an apology. JAr. MacIntyre has refused. Lay i have
your opinion as to whether i decide?
Mr. Era Shear: The Board sho,. ld handle its own internal troubles.
It is regrettable that this thing should happen in a Public meeting.
Chairman: I regret this trouble.
he=r. Johnston: I have a desire to serve honestly. I would like to
have an expression of opinion.
Yr. Russell: I move that the two members involved be censured for
their indiscreet discussion and that everthing that has been
said be forgotten and that both remain on the Board.
hlr. Clarence Jahn: Second.
Mr. hay: Had I been chairman of this meeting, they should not
have been allowed to get away with this. Motion is very suitable.
Motion carried.
IVIaclntyre : I accept the Board 's chastisement.
Mr. Johnston: I wish to resign.
Mr. Conway: Mr. Chairman, you have the authority. Le cannot go
on with arguments. Tlhis argument was too personal.
;r. Laclntyre : I have nothing more to say.
Lr. Jahn: I don 't think you sho_ld resign at present, Mr. Johnston..
Inasmuch as thiscontroversy has been before the public , I think it
would be misconstrued.
Miss Byers : When we argue, we sometimes speak too personally.
Johnston: I don 't want to impose myself on an; Board where
my integrity is concerned. i':--r. T acIntyre has accused me of using
my office to further my own interests.
T 1' As faras our dealings are concerned, Mr. Johnston,
T<<z . .:olfe e t.
everything has been O.K.
77
Yr. Johnston: I 'll stay until this thing is through.
Petition 4,=8, for consideration.
I°;Tr. Johnston: I move that we do not grant petition request.
Hr. Conway: Second.
:lotion carried unanimously.
Er. Johnston: I move that we reconsider the previous motion.
Mr. Conway: Second.
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Bower: I move that we give this more consideration and
table this until next public hearing and notify the petitioners.
Mr. Jahn: Second.
;lotion carried unanimously.
Petition #9.
Mr. Johnston: I move that this be denied because of the fact
that this does not comply with the rest of the area and would
automatically make spot zoning, which is not good zoning.
Cr. Russell: Second.
Motion carried unanimously.
Petition d10.
Hr. Bower: I move . that these people be notified to be here at
our next public hearing next week.
Ivlr. Hay : Second.
Motion carried unanimously.
, Petition „'l2.
i,''is s Pyers : I move that Petition ,:12 be passedas amended.
1r. Fa,,, :
: Second.
I,oti oncarried unanimously.
Petition '13. Has been acted upon.
Petition dl4.
Mr. Conway: I move that we table this until the next public
hearing and notify the petitioners.
Mr. Jahn: Second.
Motion carried.
Petition Y15.
Mr. Conway: I move that we table petition 7;3_5 for one week.
Mr. Russell: Second.
Motion carried.
Mr. Brashear suggested that the Board act as soon as possible
on these petitions as there is a tine limit according to lav,,:
on these things.
fromTbe Chairman a in`7 for 8n 48 for
presented a bill Lr. ;,,� r _v yloo.
services.
Mr. Johnston: I move that this bill be paid.
Mr. Hay : Second.
?.lotion carried.
79
The Chairman read letter from Standiford Company.
- Mr. Conway: I move that this letter be filed.
T;Ti ss Byers : Second.
Motion carried.
Upon motion duly made by Mr. Clarence Jahn, seconded 1py Ur.
Conway and unanimously carried, it was resolved to adjourn
this meeting until the 18th ,_la:- of October, 1250.
The meeting thereupon adjourned et ap_ ro1 innately 11:30 P.M.
/ i / . e Lam/ / /
He en E. Byers, S-/ retary
Attested:
-wl-.1)r-14 aidt
George Bentley
1