HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 1999-11-09 17238
MINUTES OF THE 795th REGULAR MEETING HELD BY
THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
�.. OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, November 9, 1999,the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its
795th Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. James C. McCann, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: James C. McCann Robert Alanskas Dan Piercecchi
William LaPine
Members absent: Michael Hale Elaine Koons H. G. Shane
Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, Al Nowak, Planner IV, Scott Miller, Planner II and
Bill Poppenger, Planner I were also present.
Chairman McCann informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a
rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in turn,
will hold its own public hearing, and will make the final determination as to whether a petition
is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for
preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to
the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a
petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in
which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City
Planning Commission becomes effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The
Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon
their filing. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying
resolutions which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight. We will begin with the Miscellaneous Site Plans for our agenda.
ITEM #1 PETITION 97-6-8-16 MARTIN LUTHER MEMORIAL HOME
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda is Revision to Petition
97-6-8-16 by Martin Luther Memorial Home, Inc. to amend plans approved by
the City on August 27, 1997 for the construction of a housing for the elderly
complex on property located at 14871 Farmington Road in the Northeast 1/4 of
Section 21.
Mr. Miller: The site is located on the west side of Farmington between Five Mile and
Lyndon Roads. On August 27, 1997 this property received Site Plan Approval
to construct a senior housing complex that consisted of a nursing home and a
three-story apartment building. As of today, the nursing home portion of the
site has been developed and is operating. The petitioner is requesting to amend
the independent living apartment, which would sit on the easterly half of the
site. As the Planning Commission will recall, this building was to be 185,460
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sq. sq. in size and contain 132 units. An underground parking structure
underneath the building provided secured parking. What the petitioner would
r... like to do now is downsize the building slightly, shift the entire building to the
south and complete the construction in two phases. By shifting the building, the
site could accommodate a parking lot between the building and the north
property line. The parking lot is needed because the underground parking
structure has been eliminated. Phase I construction would consist of the north
half of the building, including the center atrium area and the west wing that
would connect this structure to the existing nursing home. This section of the
building would be a total of 88,037 sq. ft. in size and contain 66 units. Phase II,
consisting of the remaining south 80,052 sq. ft. of the building and containing
the same number of units would be constructed at a later unknown date. Once
completed the entire structure would become a total of 168,089 sq. ft. in size
and contain 132 units. Parking required is one space for each dwelling unit, 66
units + 66 units= 122 spaces. Parking provided is 126 spaces. The look and
building materials of the modified apartment building would be very similar to
what was approved originally. The building would be constructed mainly out of
brick around the entire 1St and 2nd floors. Vinyl siding would highlight the
projecting areas and split face block would be installed up to the wainscot. The
3`d floor would be constructed entirely out of vinyl siding.
Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Taormina: There are two items of correspondence. The first item is a letter dated
November 1, 1999 from the Division of Police which reads as follows: "The
Police Department Traffic Bureau has reviewed the captioned petition plans and
has no concerns and/or recommendations." The letter is signed by John B.
Gibbs, Police Officer. The second item of correspondence is a letter dated
November 3, 1999, from Jordan London, Vice President of Edmund London&
Associates, Inc., and reads as follows: "It was brought to my attention by Scott
Miller that there was some concern by the Planning Commission for walking
distances from resident apartments located on the South side of the facility to
the proposed location for parking spaces on the north side. Residents on the
upper two floors on both the north and south wings will walk to the center of the
building to access the elevators. Once down on the first floor, it would be an
equal travel distance from the north or south end of the building. Placing a
majority of the parking to the north will screen the parking lot from
approaching visitors to the Independent Living Center or the Nursing Home.
We have added some parking spaces to the south side for first floor residents
and also added additional walks at the north in order to shorten the distance a
resident will have to walk outside the building to access their car. We hope that
this letter of explanation and the proposed modifications to the site plan will
meet with your approval."The letter is signed by Jordan London. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening?
Bob Zabowski, Architect for Edmund London & Associates, Inc. 25505 W. Twelve Mile Road,
Southfield, MI 48034 and also with me is Les Stauski, President of Martin
Luther Homes out of Lansing, Michigan area.
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Mr. Stauski: This first photograph shows what is already completed. I think many of you
�•- have been on the site already and seen it. For the individuals who may be
watching on cable, this first section has been completed and is occupied and is
filling up very rapidly. We have been admitting almost 22 residents a month.
We are so successful on those that come in for rehabilitation that probably about
16 a month are going back home. It has really been very busy for us. The
second phase which Bob will be showing you here is what you have already
seen but instead we have some color renderings of what the building would look
like and these are similar to what was approved before. The major changes you
already heard was the fact that underground parking became so expensive in
construction with ventilation systems, extra elevator, etc. that in order for the
Martin Luther Homes to keep our promise to our own board of directors and for
what our intentions are here, is to provide elderly housing that is affordable.
When you start looking at an additional million and a half for underground
parking which is higher than I thought it would ever be, we had to look for
another alternative and hence, why we are here tonight. We are here to answer
any questions you might have.
Mr. Alanskas: Sir, when you came before us originally the big part of the plan was to have
underground parking for your people there. I just can't phantom that you are
going to make the elderly residents walk so far to get to their cars. It shows that
you are going to have 13 parking spaces for 66 units, is that correct?
__ Mr. Stauske: 13 parking spaces?
Mr. Alanskas: Yes, you are going to put in an additional 13 parking spaces on the south side of
that building so you are going to have 53 people that can't park there. They will
have to go to the very back of the building to get to the front of the south
building.
Mr. Stauske: They will come down the elevator to the center of the building and they will
walk to the parking. It will be the same distance whether they are going north
or south.
Mr. Alanskas: What is that distance? From the south building to the north to park their car
and come back to an elevator, is how far?
Mr. Zabowski: When this addition is built, anyone on the second and third floor will have to
come to the center portion of the building to access the elevators. So once they
go down, whether they go to the south side or the north side they will be
traveling the same distance.
Mr. Alanskas: Which is how many feet?
Mr. Zabowski: It will be approximately close to 200 feet.
Mr. Alanskas: 200 feet? So if they park in the southern part of the building and they have
groceries and they have to carry bags of groceries 200 feet to get to an elevator?
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Mr. Zabowski: That would be correct.
Mr. Alanskas: For the elderly?
Mr. Zabowski: Yes.
Mr. Stauski: Unless they use the circular drive in the front. I would love to have
underground parking but it is just became unbelievable, the amount of
regulations there are for underground parking.
Mr. Alanskas: But you knew that when you came before us the first time.
Mr. Stauski: Not really.
Mr. Alanskas: We didn't say this was an approval on an if come what it would cost you two
years down the road to put that parking in. It was approved that you were going
to put in underground parking, period. Is that right or is that wrong?
Mr. Zabowski: That is how the original plan was approved, but we are here before you to grant
approval on this revised site plan. Again, we looked at the numbers and it was
just not feasible to build this building with the rental rates, and you know better
about the rental rates, Les, to make it feasible.
'New Mr. Alanskas: If we were talking to a younger group of people, I would say it would be no
problem but when you are talking about the elderly and to make them do this, to
me it just does not make any sense. Thank you.
Mr. LaPine: When we talk about elderly people are we talking about 60 years old and older?
Secondly, are these elderly people living here, they are not sick or anything?
They can come and go just like they would if they were in a senior citizens
housing complex?
Mr. Stauski: This is an independent living center so they do come and go and they are
healthy. We do expect in the third phase, or the second phase as it was
explained tonight,that there would be one floor that would be assisted living
and they would be a little bit more frail and elderly but not needing skilled
nursing yet.
Mr. LaPine: However, you will be providing a kitchen in this facility?
Mr. Stauski: Yes, and for them they will have a kitchen and indoor activities and dining
rooms.
Mr. LaPine: But for all these units, people for all purposes,just elderly people living in a
home that the rates are more reasonable or they don't want to keep up their
homes they are living in now, and this is an alternative for them?
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Mr. Stauski: Yes and there are other services that are available and the families are more
happy with the clinic in the building and restaurants in the building.
Mr. LaPine: I for one have no objection to your eliminating the underground parking
because to the best of my knowledge, we have a number of these facilities in the
city. We have senior citizens in the city housing and none with underground
parking to the best of my knowledge. I think the object here is to try to get this
unit built at a reasonable cost so that the average elderly person can afford it. I
really don't see any reason for the underground parking. That is my personal
opinion. I do have some problems with the way the parking is laid out. You
added some parking to the south end of the building which I don't think it is
feasible because it is too close to the road going around the building. Is there
anywhere else we could put this parking? This is on the new plan you
submitted to us tonight. My problem is that that abuts right up next to the
existing asphalt drive and when the people back out, you are not building this
phase right now and maybe that is something that can be worked out when you
get to that point.
Mr. Zabowski: That's correct. They would be backing out into this drive here.
Mr. LaPine: And to me that is a problem with elderly people. That is the only problem I
have. Another question I have is, how many people actually live here. Are
there people who rent these units who do not have cars?
*ft. Mr. Zabowski: Our experience in our community in Holt is that probably about 1/3 to 1/2 have
vehicles and the others do not.
Mr. LaPine: That is what I assumed, that there was a certain percentage do not have vehicles.
If they do not have vehicles, do you have buses or something to take them to the
stores or do they just team up with somebody else in the building?
Mr. Stauske: We have both mini-vans and we have a large 12 passenger bus that we use for
excursions and other things and our facility that we have already built and are
operating in the Lansing area. On Mondays also, one of employees goes
through and checks off grocery or prescriptions items that they need to have
picked up and we go get it for them and bring it back for about a dollar charge.
Mr. LaPine: Thank you. That is all I have for right now.
Mr. Piercecchi: In looking over the drawing here I see it is a brick veneer. What do you mean
by brick veneer, full face 4-inch bricks?
Mr. Stauski: It is full brick.
Mr. Piercecchi: Because we look at that veneer as sort of like a panel brick.
Mr. Zabowski: No,this is full brick.
Mr. Piercecchi: So it is full face brick.
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Mr. Zabowski: Everything you see in the red is full brick, 4 inch brick.
Mr. Piercecchi: O.K.
Mr. Zabowski: Everything you see is full brick, no concrete masonry at all. Over here we've
added more texture at the base and of course the lighter color you see is the
vinyl siding. We felt that the vinyl and brick gave it a nice residential
character.
Mr. Piercecchi: I understand in this new plan that you have a walkway on that northern end to
that building, which is new to that plan, is that correct?
Mr. Zabowski: This area here?
Mr. Piercecchi: No, it seemed like it ran parallel to where you just showed me. Are you
planning on covering that?
Mr. Zabowski: What we plan on doing is probably having some covered carports here, is that
correct Les?
Mr. Stauski: Yes, that is the intention.
Mr. Zabowski: That is the intention, to have some covered carports here and we weren't
Nem. planning on covering this walk but we may be able to do something across the
parking lot area.
Mr. Piercecchi: Everybody that is going to parking is going to be parking under cover, under
that north end there? That whole package is going to be covered?
Mr. Stauski: In this plan, at this point, there are no carports. In the whole facility what we
found was several people were requesting carports and once we found out how
many people actually drove and didn't drive, we added 4-5 unit carports to that
facility but not as part of the master plan. It was really a phase that was added
as it was needed.
Mr. Piercecchi: But there are four or five spaces that will be covered?
Mr. Stauski The ones we put in at Holt you can make them any size you want. We put five
units in, and then five units in and on the other side of the building we put five
units in, then another five units in for a total of 20.
Mr. Piercecchi: Don't you think you should commit to that?
Mr. Stauski: I guess we could commit to whatever is appropriate. I don't know if Livonia
will be any different than Holt. There may be more requests for carports or
there may be less.
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Mr. Piercecchi: Well the thing is we are approving a site plan here tonight. If it's not on the site
plan, well then it's not on the site plan.
Now
Mr. Stauski: It isn't in the financing at this point either. It isn't in the finance package as part
of the value engineering parking became the issue, underground versus surface.
Mr. Piercecchi: I understand the cost on that and I am disappointed to see it gone but I
understand the ventilation and all that. We are looking at a lot of money. I was
surprised you scaled it back. I guess you just went from three to two different
mixes of the room. But if you could put carports back there and a covered
walkway, because every area is not going to be carport, you are going to have a
lot a open parking too,right? Back in that north end too or is that all going to
be carport?
Mr. Zabowski: I think Les is looking at probably at 10 and maybe we could stretch that out.
Mr. Piercecchi: You've got a long walk whether they have carports or not from that new
sidewalk you are putting in all the way into that building, correct?
Mr. Zabowski: We are accessing the building at this point and this point. Now on a nice day
they will walk all the way into this courtyard. We added these walks and this
walk here.
Mr. Piercecchi: Don't you think a covered walkway is really in order there? It wouldn't cost an
`„ arm and a leg.
Mr. Stauske: When you say a covered walkway, to me I am not even thinking of the cost at
this point, I guess I would like to see what it is going to look like. I have seen
some that are pretty tacky. If we are going to do something, I want it to look
pretty nice.
Mr. Piercecchi: Yes, because what you have there is beautiful, we acknowledge.
Mr. Zabowski: We can definitely take a look at that probability of taking one of these
walkways.
Mr. Piercecchi: Is there any parking really on that one side only, is that correct?
Mr. Zabowski: There is parking all around here.
Mr. Piercecchi: Then they should have access to both places. It doesn't hurt to let people get out
of the rain and out of the snow.
Mr. LaPine: I would like to ask one more question. It is my understanding, if I understand
what you are saying here, is that the whole facility you built your complex
without the carports and after the residents moved in you added the carports
because the people wanted you to add the carports.
Mr. Zabowski: That is correct.
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Mr. LaPine: That makes sense to me. Why build the carports if people don't want them.
Mr. Zabowski: Right.
Mr. LaPine: Thank you.
Mr. McCann: Number one, you would have to come back for site plan approval if you want
carports. Mr. Taormina, tell me what area is landscaped in this greenbelt. Is
there a percent of change in this new plan compared to the prior plan?
Mr. Taormina: There would be a difference. I don't have the exact percentage. That is not
something that has been calculated by staff
Mr. McCann: Based on my review of the site, there is tremendous difference in the parking
area. Gentlemen, do you know what the difference is? How much of your
landscaping is being taken up by parking spaces now?
Mr. Zabowski: The actual footprint of the building shrunk a little bit so we gained some area.
Mr. McCann: How many square feet would you say.
Mr. Zabowski: Of the parking area?
'New Mr. McCann: No,the footprint of the building.
Mr. Zabowski: The footprint of the building on the first floor is, there is total lot number of
26,855 sq. ft.
Mr. McCann: How much on the old plan?
Mr. Zabowski: That is phase II. We will have to add that to Phase I which is 38,360 sq. ft. so
combining those two numbers will give you a total lot coverage for Phase I and
Phase. And again, that is just the building area. Again the service parking is
not calculated.
Mr. McCann: About half by the time you add in all the spaces all the way around. I guess this
is where I have a problem. You came to the Planning Commission before you
changed the zoning and said look, we are going to come here, this is going to be
showcase. It is going to be all brick and marble. We have looked at it and this
is going to be the best one in the state. It is just going to be magnificent. Then
you came in with the site plan after you got the zoning approval and told us,
well you know what, we did promise you that but the cost, we had everything
costed out. We have taken a look at everything and we are not going to be able
to put in some of the things we wanted. We wanted an island drive. There were
some other things as far as you weren't going to go all brick and marble. We are
going to put in some dryvit and some split face block and we've had to change a
few things here but we have it all costed out and that is what we are going to do.
Now the third time you are coming back to us and saying we went with the
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changes. We will put in a little more brick in and not as much dryvit but it is
about 50/50. Considerably less than what you originally told us before you
�•- came in on the zoning. Now you are coming back in and telling us, you know
all that nice area that we were so proud of and all those trees and the greenbelt
and how nice it was going to be for our residents. We are going to get rid of
that and pave it. That is what we want to do. I don't think the city is getting
anything. Obviously your residents are going to have to walk a tremendous
distance and you say people, it's retirement and it's not that hard on them to
walk. I am a public administrator. I go in and out of nursing homes and
assisted living homes everyday. That is what I do. Most of those people, by the
time they move to assisted living or to residents home, are using canes. They
are not able to carry their groceries. They are using walkers. Although they are
in assisted living, they still want to be in a community where they can cook their
food, have their own apartment, still live husband and wife.
Mr. Zabowski: If someone needed to drop off their groceries, there would be staff on hand that
would assist them.
Mr. Stauske: I think I already said that in Holt we get their groceries for them. We get
pharmaceuticals for them.
Mr. McCann: The City has a wonderful bus plan too that picks up and takes people where they
want to go. But it is not what you promised us when you came in. You reduced
it at site plan now you are,to me, severely cutting it. I think what you've got to
do, before I would even consider this, is basically, you've got a couple of
courtyards as your greenbelt area now instead of having a nice large area that
was going to be surrounded by green area. There were going to be walkways
through it. People were going to be able to enjoy it. You said it was going to be
a great place, set back in the woods and now we are going to have blacktop and
building and that is it. I don't think it is fair to the residents of Livonia to have
that back there now. I don't think it is fair to the people that are going to move
into it and it is not at all what you promised. You said you can't afford to do it
now. When you came in for site plan approval you said you had sent it to all
these bidders and that is why you had to reduce this and that and that you had
bids on the project and that it was all designed. Now you tell us you had no idea
what the costs were going to be when we put it through site plan. I really have a
hard time dealing with that. We have professionals come before us everyday.
They design a building and have a pretty good idea what it is going to cost
them.
Mr. Zabowski: When we came in for the original site plan the costs we didn't have, as
construction documents go, for this phase and as you know the construction
industry in the past couple of years, has skyrocketed phenomenally. The
construction costs have gone out of sight. We are trying our best to provide
what we think is a beautiful building and building that can be built in this
community. The buildings I have seen built, projects for the elderly, I think this
is one of the nicest ones in the state. The interiors of this building are going to
``' far beyond the interiors you have seen in other parts of this state.
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Mr. McCann: Without any greenbelt, I can't even see what you are talking about. A cement
building doesn't do anything for me. Number two, why not just go with Phase I
N..- until you can afford to build Phase II? Why does the City have to give up
because you want to have to all out and rented as soon as possible? Why can't
you just wait on Phase II until you can afford to build Phase II?
Mr. Stauski: It's a matter of fmancing. Banks are concerned about the long term care
industry to begin with, as you probably are aware. Four major project chains
have had difficulties and their stocks dropped and some have gone bankrupt. It
is very difficult for us to get financing unless the banks agree that this is
properly priced. We want to provide a quality product for the least expensive
amount for residents as we can. We can build the Taj Mahal but nobody will
move in because they won't be able to afford it. We went down to get ready to
do some documents for pricing to build the building and found out how
expensive this thing will be. The bankers wouldn't finance it, so we had to find
areas in which we could still keep the quality services that we have, the building
that we really wanted and the parking became the problem. It's a tight site to
begin with.
Mr. McCann: We have other people come in with these same problems but instead of just
wiping out all the greenbelts with parking lots, saying they are going to cut
back, they are not going to go from 64,000 to 65,000 feet, bring it down to
around 50,000 so you need less parking and you have more greenbelt. You can
have a path. We have other senior centers and they do nice paths around,
- walking paths. Something for the senior citizens to go out and sit, give it some
nature. People don't want to just move in and stay inside their condominium.
Mr. Stauske: I wonder if it would be possible, since we have already identified that there will
be some people on the site that don't require cars or parking, if we could reduce
the parking spaces.
Mr. McCann: Why not reduce the building size?
Mr. Stauske: Then we are renting little efficiency apartments and people really want two
bedrooms.
Mr. McCann: I have nothing further. Are there any further questions? Hearing none, I will go
to the audience. Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one from the audience, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. LaPine and denied, it was
#11-186-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Council that Petition 97-6-8-16 by Martin Luther Memorial Home, Inc.
to amend plans approved by the City Council on August 27, 1997 for the
construction of housing for the elderly complex on property located at 14871
Farmington Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 21 that Revision to Petition
`"" 97-6-8-16 be denied for the following conditions:
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1) That the petitioner has failed to justify the need to alter the plans that
were approved in the original petition;
NI..
2) That the location of the new parking lot would have a detrimental effect
upon the entire project and would cause undo hardship on the elderly
residents who might live there;
3) That underground parking provides a more secure and protective parking
situation;
4) That one of the main reasons the City approved the original site plan was
based on the apartment building having underground parking;
5) That the shifting the multi-story building to the south would obstruct the
"quality of life" of the senior residents of the adjacent Silver Village
development;
6) That the petitioner has failed to comply with all the concerns deemed
necessary for the safety and welfare of the City and its residents.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion?
Mr. LaPine: I would like to make an alternate motion to table this until we have a seven
member board.
Ng.. Mr. McCann: Is there support? Hearing none, the motion fails for lack of support.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
AYES: Alanskas, Piercecchi, McCann
NAYS: LaPine
ABSENT: Hale, Koons, Shane
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
You have ten days in which to appeal the decision to the City Council.
ITEM #2 PETITION 99-10-8-25 REDFORD OAK PLAZA (Big Lots)
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-10-8-25
by Redford Oak Plaza, on behalf of the Big Lots, requesting approval of all
plans required by Section 18.47 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a
proposal to renovate a portion of the exterior building elevation of the
commercial building located at 30000 Plymouth Road in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 26.
r.. Mr. Miller: This site is located on the north side of Plymouth Road between Middlebelt and
Tech Center Drive. Big Lots is planning on occupying the vacant half of the
commercial building that presently has a Media Play Store as a tenant. This site
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was formerly a Builder's Square Hardware Store. The petitioner is requesting
approval to renovate the portion of the south(front) elevation of the commercial
_.. building where Big Lots would be located. Big Lots would like to put in an
entrance for their unit. The submitted Elevation Plan shows that the existing
overhead door in the wall would be enclosed with building materials to match
the existing exterior finish. A new glass entranceway would be installed
approximately 6 feet to the west of the filled in opening. The remaining exterior
would not be touched. Big Lots is also proposing signage and an illuminated
awning over the entrance. Because the awning is illuminated it is considered
a sign and is figured in the overall sign calculations. Big Lots is permitted a
sign not to exceed 182 sq.ft and 1/2 the sq.ft. of the one ground sign.
Proposed siinalre is 2 wall signs-302 sq.ft. in total sign area. The south
elevation - "Big Lots/Bargains-Closeouts"- 111 sq.ft in area, the south
elevation - illuminated awning- 191 sq.ft. in area and 1 ground sign -panel-
"Big Lots"-20 sq.ft. in area. Because the proposed signage is in excess of
what is allowed by the sign ordinance, the applicant would be required to seek
a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Taormina: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is a letter dated October
28, 1999 from the Engineering Division which reads as follows: "Pursuant to
your request,the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced
petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the proposal at this
Now
time. We trust that this will provide you with the information requested." The
letter is signed by David Lear, P.E., Civil Engineer. The second item of
correspondence is a letter dated November 1, 1999 from the Division of Police
which reads as follows: "The Police Department Traffic Bureau has reviewed
the captioned petition plans and has no concerns and/or recommendations." The
letter is signed by John B. Gibbs, Police Officer. The third item of
correspondence is a letter dated November 8, 1999 from the Inspection
Department which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 21,
1999, the site plan for the above subject Petition has been reviewed. The
following issues are being brought to your attention. (1) The parking area for
the entire site needs to be repaired, resealed and double striped. (2)
Consideration should be given to providing enclosures for the dumpsters at the
rear of the building. No enclosures exist at this site. (3) Graffiti needs to be
removed from the rear wall of Media Play. (4) Pallets and debris need to be
removed from the rear of the building. I trust this has provided the requested
information." The letter is signed by David M. Woodcox, Senior Building
Inspector. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening?
Mike Styles, I am with consolidated stores doing business as Big Lots, 300 Philip High Road,
Columbus, Ohio.
Mr. McCann: Want to tell us little about what you are doing here?
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Mr. Styles: Just as he explained, we are leasing the remainder of the Builder's Square
s..w building that Media Play does occupy at this time to put in a Big Lots retail
store. We have intentions of cutting a new store front in the front of this
building with the glass, with the awning above and the signage above and
infilling the block wall where the overhead door was. We are under lease with
Music Land Group which owns Media Play. That is who we are leasing from.
The information the gentleman spoke of there regarding the parking lots and the
graffiti at the rear building and the debris would be that of the landlords at this
time. I would do everything within my power to see that all those items are
corrected.
Mr. Alanskas: Sir can you explain to me what Big Lots is?
Mr. Styles: Big Lots is a closeout retailer. We are nation wide. We have approximately
1200 stores across the United States. We deal in name brand products. First
run goods.
Mr. Alanskas: Are you referring to clothing or appliances. What do you sell?
Mr. Styles: We carry the same mix of merchandise that you would find in a K-Mart or Wal-
Mart. We carry clothing, domestic items, lawn and garden, toys, garden
supplies and offices supplies.
Mr. Alanskas: You buy merchandise that is not defective but is cheaper. How do you make
your products cheaper to the public?
Mr. Styles: Our products we buy are first run goods. We thrive on manufacturer over runs,
package changing from manufacturers. We do a lot in that. Some of the items
are not your name brand items. They are your lesser quality items but again
they are first run new products.
Mr. Alanskas: In the interior of the store, are you going to have just one big area where you
have pallets to put merchandise or is it going to broken down? How is it going
to be inside?
Mr. Styles: Inside this building right now, it is pretty much an empty shell. Everything on
the inside is going to be new. We have an open deck. We will have all new
lighting. As far as the merchandising, it is all shelving just like you would see
in K-mart or Wal-Mart. It is all steel shelving. Everything is out of the
package. A lot of people interpret as being able to buy things a case at a time.
If you want to buy a case you can buy a case but that is not our business. We
sell individual items.
Mr. Alanskas: Are you going to have cases stacked up and down? Are you going to have
partitions for clothing?
`` Mr. Styles: Basically, it is an open floor plan. We have wall fixtures all around the
perimeter. We have interior gondolas which range anywhere from 54" high to
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72" high. Those are of platinum color and all the merchandise will be
merchandised vertically on those gondolas.
Nier
Mr. LaPine: How many Big Lots do you have in the metropolitan Detroit area?
Mr. Styles: I would say right now we probably have near 30.
Mr. LaPine: How many do you have in the suburbs out this way, Farmington Hills,
Southfield, Novi? Any at all?
Mr. Styles: Yes we have stores all over the state of Michigan, several of them in the suburbs
of Detroit. I don't know the exact number.
Mr. LaPine: I visited the one at Greenfield and 11 Mile Road. Would you consider that one
of your typical stores?
Mr. Styles: I would have to say yes. I haven't been to that store personally but that is
typical. Our stores are typical from one to the other. Keep in mind, our
company, we lease second and third generation buildings. A lot of the
buildings we go into, we do not go in and gut the building and build new. We
will take an existing ceiling, existing lighting, existing flooring and if it is
acceptable for us to do business with, we will leave it and use it as existing. In
this particular location there is nothing on the interior of this building. It is an
open deck building. It is exposed bar joists, painted white, new lights on, new
VTC floor put in. Any partitions that are built, are new, new restrooms. The
interior of the place is virtually going to be new.
Mr. LaPine: Let me say, the store at Greenfield and 11 Mile Road needs a lot of work done
on it. If you ever get out there, you need to take a look at it. Here you've got a
new store so I assume things will be a little better. It isn't what I would call a
type of store that normally would do good in Livonia, if you want my honest
opinion. Livonia is more upscale stores. But that is no reason why you
shouldn't come to Livonia. I wasn't really impressed with the store. It was,
quite frankly, stuff was laying all over the place. You sell furniture in there.
There was all kinds of stuff there. If wasn't organized in my opinion. That is
my personal opinion. Maybe that is the way you operate but I wasn't impressed.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't come to Livonia. I just hope that if you come
to Livonia you are going to be successful because I don't like for someone to
come in and a store and then two years later find out that you can't cut the
mustard here and then we've got another empty store. I would rather wait for
someone we know that can really do the job here and make a success. But if
you've got that many stores and you are still in operation, you must have
something going for you. I'll tell you, the one out at 11 Mile and Greenfield
Road didn't impress me at all.
Mr. Styles: I can appreciate what you are saying and respect your thoughts on that and Big
Lots appeals to a wide variety of clientele and we have a long term commitment
with this building in Livonia. We are on a lease for 10 years, I believe, so we
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are fully committed to making this go. We have probably been in the Detroit
market here since the early '80s, doing business.
Mr. LaPine: That is all I have Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Alanskas: How many employees will you have at that store there?
Mr. Styles: This store will probably employ anywhere from 40 to 50 employees.
Mr. Alanskas: Are they full time or part time?
Mr. Styles: There will be both and the ratio will be probably 1/3 will be full time.
Mr. Alanskas: The 2/3rds that are part-time, what age group would you be hiring?
Mr. Styles: We hire all age groups.
Mr. Alanskas: Is it mainly young people?
Mr. Styles: Not necessarily. We do hire the younger people and mostly they work out best
for us in the evening hours. Then we have housewives that are looking for
something to do that works well for us during the daytime shifts and into the
evenings as well.
r, Mr. Alanskas: What are the hours of your stores? From what time to what time are you open?
Mr. Styles: Hours of operation are from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Mr. Alanskas: You are open on Sundays?
Mr. Styles: Yes sir, 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on Sunday.
Mr. Alanskas: O.K. Thank you very much.
Mr. Piercecchi: To get the scope of your operation, I don't understand why you call it Big Lots
when you sell things one at a time. Can you give me an idea of what the wage
structure is in your facility for the full-time and part-time people?
Mr. Styles: I am not personally involved with the Human Resources portion of our business.
We try to pay prevailing wages within the area and if we don't, we don't get the
employees. If we can't pay what the other retailers are paying in the retail
market, then we are just kidding ourselves. I don't know, I can't quote you a
dollar amount. I am not at liberty to say that or commit us to that because I am
not involved with that. I am involved with the store planning department of our
company.
Mr. Piercecchi: Thank you.
Mr. McCann: Do you need the awning illuminated?
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Mr. Styles: The illumination of the awning is done in this instance is two play. We have the
'ft.. awning there because we are going into a blank building front. We want some
protection for the customers entering and leaving the building. We show the
awning illuminated, again, for two reasons. One it creates a lot of excitement at
the front of the building and the outset of this building where it is located. I
think it would be real helpful and the other part of the lighting in the awning is
to light the sidewalk area in front of our store front.
Mr. McCann: There are other ways of lighting the sidewalk.
Mr. Styles: Right. And we don't have a problem with that. If that awning does not need to
be illuminated or internally lit, then we could possibly deal with that.
Mr. McCann: Then you would have to reduce your sign by 100 sq. ft. to keep the lights on so
that might put incentive there.
Mr. Styles: But we would still like to have some down lighting if possible on that awning.
Mr. McCann: You can have down lighting but you can't internally light it but my concern is, it
looks like to me that you have cut a hole in front, put in some doors, bought an
awning and a sign and that is what you are doing to the front of the building and
that is what it looks like. Media Play did this huge dryvit thing, gave it some
texture, brought it out. There is no texture. It looks like a side entrance. As
"Noiryou said you want to interior light it because you are just off to the side and not
really there but you haven't done anything to make it look like an entrance. You
could build an area to cover for the rain, a mansard over that. There are a
hundred different ways you could do it. It would give it some texture and
definition and make it look like a separate unit. To me it looks like a service
entrance to Media Play. It is just an awning over an entrance door. Do you do
anything different at any of your other stores or do you just go in to the building
and whatever is there and punch a hole.
Mr. Styles: Pretty much. Again, our company has been successful by maintaining our cost
and not overspending where unnecessary.
Mr. McCann: But you see, my problem is the City is going to live with it for 10 years from
what you just told me and to be honest with you, why because your master plan
says don't put a dime into it. If it will pass all codes and you can go into the
building, slap a sign up and start doing business, well this is a nice area. We are
spending a lot of money right now. We have raised separate taxes along
Plymouth Road to bring it up and make it look as nice as possible. This is like a
downtown area for us. I don't know if you have been up and down Plymouth
Road but we have put up all the antique lighting. We are buying property, we
are laying grass.
Mr. Styles: I have met with one of the developmental association last week and presented
the same project to them and it was accepted at their meeting.
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Mr. McCann: I just have a real problem with just putting a sign on the wall and cutting a hole
in the building and saying this is what you get for 10 years. I don't have
�., anything else.
Mr. Alanskas: I don't want to repreat what Mr. McCann is saying, but if we could somehow
dress up the facia of this building to make it look entirely different. Like Mr.
McCann said, and I am saying the same thing, it just looks like a blank building.
I understand what you are trying to say because your people are trying to sell
things as a lesser cost and you want to get into a building as least as possible.
When you tell me you are going into an empty building, because that used to be
a Builder's Square and Home Quarters and it is a blank building and it is wide
and all you are going to do is put your merchandise in and sell it, it kinds of
concerns me. You are telling me that you are doing nothing to the inside, the
same as you are the outside.
Mr. Styles: That is not true. The interior of the building will be the same face you would
find across, I mean we don't walk in and build a bunch of little wing walls and
such for our soft line department as a Target would but the fmishes on the walls
is drywall and paint.
Mr. Alanskas: How high is the ceiling where the lights are? Isn't that kind of high?
Mr. Styles: The deck of that building is probably at about 24 feet and we are going to chain
hang eight foot fixtures of lights within that building at a reasonable height so
they can be maintained at probably 14' to 16'.
Mr. Alanskas: So you are putting in different lighting then?
Mr. Styles: Yes we are.
Mr. Alanskas: Because what is in there now are the big globe lights.
Mr. Styles: Exactly, those do not work.
Mr. Alanskas: You didn't say that. So you are putting different lighting in.
Mr. Styles: Yes we are.
Mr. Alanskas: The neon lights, are they 12 foot sections?
Mr. Styles: Eight foot sections, florescent, two bulb lights.
Mr. Alanskas: With a top on it?
Mr. Styles: No,they are exposed.
Mr. Alanskas: O.K. Thank you.
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Mr. Piercecchi: Our Chairman brought up some very good points as he generally does and
Commissioner Alanskas elaborated on further. Do you have anything to do
�.. with the exterior of that building, as far as the style?
Mr. Styles: Sure we could put a lot of style and design into it. Certainly.
Mr. Piercecchi: When the time comes, I think Mr. Chairman, that we should need another look
at this site. I think you can beautify it somewhat and as pointed out,the
Plymouth Road Development Authority has spent tons of money trying to
make that look like a down town area, even though if we have no official
downtown area. We want to see that improved. I would like to have you come
back. Talk with your people. See what can be done to beautify that front, to
make it look like a separate entity rather than just an attachment to Media Play.
Mr. McCann: Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak for or against this petition?
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Chairman,just one thing. I think what the Chairman said is apropos but on
the other hand, I don't want to see this building empty for any long time. It has
been empty for quite a while now. But I think he has a point. If something can
be done to spruce up this building to make it look like a separate building away
from Media Play. I don't know what it is, I am not an architect. I am just a
layman, but it seems to me that you could spruce up the outside of this building.
I don't like the inside of the building if it is going to look like the one on
Greenfield, but I am willing to buy that because you people figure you can make
a go here and that is fine with me. But I agree with the Chairman as he pointed,
whatever goes there, we've got to live with. We would like to get something a
little more classy here. You are coming into a good City. You can be
successful here. Everybody that comes to Livonia usually does fairly well. You
may have to spend a little money up front but you might get it at the other end.
Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Alanskas: You might consider, and it is not expensive,just to break up this bare wall, you
can have exterior lights that shoot down. They are real nice but they are not
expensive. They can really add to the beauty of the building. That is just one
thing you could do. I mean in 10 or 20 foot increments along the building you
can have some lighting coming down like you have at the theaters. That looks
really nice. They stick out and that is just one thought that you could possibly
do. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions and since there is no one in the audience
wishing to speak for or against this petition, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-187-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby determine that
Petition 99-10-8-25 by Redford Oak Plaza, on behalf of the Big Lots, requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the zoning ordinance in
connection with a proposal to renovate a portion of the exterior building
17256
elevation of the commercial building located at 30000 Plymouth Road in the
Southeast 1/4 of Section 26 be tabled to November 23, 1999.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #3 PETITION 99-10-8-26 VAN BORN PLAZA (Livonia 5 Plaza)
Mr. Hale, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-10-8-26 by Van Born
Plaza, on behalf of the Livonia Five Plaza, requesting approval of all plans
required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal
to renovate the exterior building elevations of the commercial center located at
28423 Five Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 24.
Mr. Miller: This site is located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Harrison and
Sunbury. This site is located next to the Old Mexico Restaurant, which is
located on the corner of Five Mile Road and Harrison Avenue. The petitioner is
proposing to renovate the entire north(front) elevation of the Livonia 5 Plaza
Shopping Center. Other than saying that the front of the building is a flat brick
wall with a think metal canopy, the look of the center presently is very non-
descriptive. What the petitioners would like to do is add decorative dryvit along
the top of the storefronts to offer some relief to the building. Artistic peaks,
elegant arches and creative offsets would provide a more eye catching look to
the entire center. A more modern mansard type canopy, support by six new
dryvit columns, would take the place of the existing dated metal canopy. The
area underneath the canopy would remain as it is today, brick glass and doors.
Mr. McCann: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Taormina: There are three items that we have received. The first item of correspondence is
a letter dated October 28, 1999 from the Engineering Division which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the
above referenced petition. The Engineering Division has no objections to the
proposal or the legal description contained therein. We trust that this will
provide you with the information requested." The letter is signed by David
Lear, P.E., Civil Engineer. The second item of correspondence is a letter dated
November 1, 1999 which reads as follows: "The Police Department Traffic
Bureau has reviewed the captioned petition plans and has no concerns and/or
recommendations." The letter is signed by John B. Gibbs, Police Officer. The
third item of correspondence is a letter dated November 8, 1999 from the
Inspection Department which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of
October 21, 1999, the site plan for the above Petition has been reviewed The
following issues are being brought to your attention. (1) The dumpsters located
in the northeast corner of the parking lot need to be placed at the minimum
building setback(75) and enclosures should be considered at this time. (2)
The pylon sign at the northwest corner of the parking lot needs to be refaced or
removed. (3) The piers are proposed to have an E.I.F.S. exterior and may be
susceptible to pedestrian and traffic damage. (4) Consideration should be
given to resealing and double striping the parking areas. I trust this has
17257
provided the requested information. " The letter is signed by David M.
Woodcox, Senior Building Inspector. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening?
Ryan Kattoo,Nu-Vest Associates, 29201 Telegraph , Suite 450, Southfield, Michigan 48034
and John Janviriya, 42551 Northville Place Drive, Northville, Michigan 48167,
who is the designer.
Mr. McCann: Can you tell us about your project?
Mr. Janviriya: Basically I want to bring this shopping center to life. What I want to do is bring
some dimension to the building instead of just doing a typical flat dryvit panel
across the entire building. I would like to use diversity of colors, textures,
offsets, dimension play of vertical -half horizontal. Also at night, one thing that
it doesn't indicate in this picture is how we are going to back light all the
diamond elements on the upper parapet, so it's going to have a halo effect so it's
going to have a lot of appeal at night. It is not going to be revealed lighting
where you can see the bulbs. It will be really classy. That was probably my
biggest interest,to class up this building. It was perfect. It was a bare canvass,
it was just straight.
Mr. McCann: So you had a lot of fun?
,44110, Mr. Janviriya: Oh yeah!
Mr. McCann: Any other comments?
Mr. Janviriya: One thing he did say was about those were columns. Those are wall mounted
columns so they will be just pinned up against the existing brick.
Mr. McCann: The new dumpster location- any comments about that?
Mr. Kattoo: I talked to Mark a few times regarding the dumpster location. The problem we
have with this property is that we are having a hard time trying to fmd a place to
put the dumpsters. They are currently located right by Five Mile Road and we
are trying to find the best solution to place the dumpsters to reduce visibility and
still provide a function for the tenants in the center and overall increase the
appearance of the center. We have come up with our best solution of where to
place the dumpsters on the west end of the building. As you can see from this
site plan, our proposal is to place the dumpster on the west side of the building
facing south, using the service trucks to be able to service the dumpsters and to
exit through Center Avenue or through the back alley. The dumpster would be
totally encased in matching brick to match the brick work of the shopping
center, totally enclosed with at least a six foot wall. There is already a screen
wall behind the whole shopping center so that there would be means for this
dumpster to be not visible from the neighbors behind.
Mr. Alanskas: Do I understand that you can get by with only one dumpster?
17258
Mr. Kattoo: What we are doing right now is that we are consolidating. There were three
dumpsters on the site. We are consolidating the dumpsters to one dumpster,
increase the size and just increase service. Because we are so limited on space
we can't have three or four dumpsters at this location but because the tenants
have contracts with the waste removal service, when that contract expires we
are requiring them to go through the property management and have them
service the dumpster when management takes over the contract.
Mr. Alanskas: I have a big problem by putting the dumpster there because I think it is intrusive
to the neighborhood on that street. Just hear me out for one minute. If you had
only one dumpster on the east north corner where it is right now, if you could
move that dumpster down about 15 feet and carry where Old Mexico is, they
have a landscaping plan that is about six feet wide with big tall pine trees, where
the dumpster is right now....
Mr. Kattoo: When you say down, do you mean north or south?
Mr. Alanskas: Let me finish. Where the dumpster is now...
Mr. Kattoo: Do you mean north or south?
Mr. Alanskas: It would be south on the east part of the property line. Right now you've got a
parking spot that you cannot see, so that is lost. If you just took one more
`.. parking spot out of there, which would be a good 15 feet in length, you could
put in some landscaping and a couple of big pine trees and you could come this
way with some pine trees where you could screen that dumpster right in and
have the opening of the dumpster facing south so it would be screened
completely from the parking lot and Five Mile and it would not be seen and for
them to come and pick it up they could just drive right through here or through
the back, pick it up and go right out the front.
Mr. Kattoo: Our concern is that, as you can see from our site plan, we laid out a new parking
lay out.
Mr. Alanskas: I saw that.
Mr. Kattoo: We currently have 60 plus one or two parking spots for this center. We are
trying to increase the overall parking for this center. If you do that, move the
dumpster down, we will lose a little bit more parking.
Mr. Alanskas: Have you ever seen that parking area half full?
Mr. Kattoo: Currently, the center is roughly almost 50% vacant.
Mr. Alanskas: I know you have three buildings vacant. My son-in-law works there. I go there
every day. Even if you had it full, I think the parking lot you have now would
be more than enough.
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Mr. Kattoo: It is kind of hard to say at this point, it is 13,200 sq. ft. of shopping center and
we currently have 6,000 sq. ft. vacant.
Mr. Alanskas: Depending on what you put in there.
Mr. Kattoo: Exactly. Someone with a restaurant or someone that may require more parking
for a training facility or anything else but we are not quite sure. But we would
hate to reduce the amount of parking that is currently there and then lower the
marketability of leasing out the sites.
Mr. Alanskas: I commend you on what you are trying to do to the mall because it looks so
much different from now and after. The dumpster is the only concern that I
have and I still think it would work in that area by just taking out those two
parking spots. One, you are not using any way, it's lost because it is in front of
the dumpster so you haven't used that in the last 10 years so we are only talking
one parking spot,to put more landscaping going across the front of that
dumpster.
Mr. Kattoo: Would it be in consideration of putting the dumpster in the opposite direction
over to closer to Five Mile with an enclosure allowing the dumpster to be
serviced from the west side?
Mr. McCann: Are there any more questions?
..„ Mr. LaPine: I was out there today and I like what Mr. Alanskas says but my solution was
you keep it where it is but you put a brick wall high enough, my concern is I
don't want people driving Five Mile Road seeing the dumpster. So you put a
brick wall high enough so it covers the dumpster going east and west and then
you have one going north and south and they come in and pick the garbage up
from the south. Otherwise they come up the side street, in the alley, you move
in, you pick up the garbage and you drive out.
Mr. Kattoo: I'm sorry. Up the driveway through the alley?
Mr. LaPine: That's right.
Mr. Kattoo: You are talking about the west side?
Mr. LaPine: No, I'm talking about the east side.
Mr. Kattoo: We are unable to get access to the property from the east side.
Mr. Janviriya: The property line is flush to the east side.
Mr. Alanskas: You can come in off of Five Mile with the vehicle to pick it up.
r.....
Mr. Janviriya: Basically around the lot and back out.
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Mr. Kattoo: Our ultimate goal was to basically, no one really like to see a dumpster close to
Five Mile. I'm sure you don't want to have drivers drive by and see a dumpster.
N.. We ultimately would like to remove the dumpster visibly in front of the tenants
and the center and for when people drive by.
Mr. Alanskas: But you will be moving it in front of a neighborhood.
Mr. LaPine: Then if you move it on to the west side you will have it on the residential street
and the neighbors who live out there will have to see it out there.
Mr. Kattoo: The dumpster from the closest neighbor would be roughly 50 - 60 feet away.
As I mentioned, the back neighbor already has a screen wall that is placed
throughout the whole back of the alley of the center of over 6 feet. The
dumpster would be totally enclosed itself with a six foot enclosure gate. The
neighbor to the right is actually closer to Five Mile. There is not a driveway to
the right of the west of the center. I have already talked to the neighbors. I am
actually the property manager of that property. I am there every day. They
have been very happy with the new changes that have been going on with the
center and how the center has improved and cleaned up in the last few months.
We are trying to get this dumpster in front of the center, which people driving
up Five Mile everyday would see it too, more so placed on the side, furthest
away from the closest neighbor as possible.
Mr. LaPine: You made a statement a few minutes ago about tenants who may come in there.
You talked about a restaurant but if it is any where near a neighbor and you've
got a restaurant, restaurants create a lot of garbage and with my experience
knowing that people who work in a restaurant when they come out and put the
garbage out, they've got young people come out, they throw the garbage. Some
of it hits, some of doesn't. Next thing we know, we've got rats and the next
thing we've got neighbors mad at us. That is not my idea of a solution. A
solution can't be farthest away from the neighbor as possible. That is my
solution. Anyway, over here you've got a solid wall on the west side. This is
where you are intending to put it. You've only got a 23 foot drive there and to
get one of these big trucks in there,the front load that lifts up that dumpster and
dumps it, I don't think it is feasible to do it.
Mr. Kattoo: I contacted the waste removal service, Waste Management. The canister, itself,
usually takes about a 6 x 6 x 6 foot square cube. The length of the center is over
50 feet. He feels there is no problem for him to service that site.
Mr. LaPine: Well, here again, you are closer the residential neighbors and I don't know what
time they pick up your dumpster but sometimes these people come in at 4, 5 or
6 o'clock in the morning and they are banging those dumpsters and the
neighbors are upset. I think it is a bad location.
Mr. McCann: I think 7 o'clock is the time they start.
Mr. LaPine: O.K. I am through, Mr. Chairman.
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Mr. Alanskas: In any average business when there is a dumpster, when a person comes to pick
up the refuse, even if you have gates going across the front to block it off, the
r.., truck pulls in, they dump it, they go out and the gates are left open. They are
always left open. In fact, Mark and I walked across to the other strip where they
have enclosed and it is much bigger than what you have. They are wide open,
stuff all over, blowing. You would have the same thing there on the neighbors
because of the wind and refuse there. It would blow into the streets and it
would be really detrimental to the neighbors there on that street. I still think
you can work out having that dumpster on the northeast corner. You would lose
two parking spots but you've got plenty of parking there.
Mr. Kattoo: Is it possible that in consideration of placing that dumpster closer to Five Mile
on the northeast corner then what we would do is angle the one parking spot so
that the truck can make the turn?
Mr. Alanskas: You mean the second row parking?
Mr. Kattoo: Right, the row closest to Five Mile and the parking spot farthest to the left
where there is actually a number there. We can angle that so when a truck
comes around the dumpster would be facing south. It would be closer to the
main road and then that way we are not losing parking.
Mr. Alanskas: If you move the dumpster back 15 or 20 feet from Five Mile, I don't think you
would have a problem at all.
Mr. Kattoo: If we move this back 20 feet, I'm not sure if it is going to grant the truck proper
turning radius to service that dumpster.
Mr. Alanskas: He could come in at Five Mile, come to your closest lane south, turn left, swing
right into the dumpster then leave.
Mr. Kattoo: He is saying the gate would open on the south side, is that correct?
Mr. Alanskas: Correct.
Mr. Janviriya: He will lose the handicap spot in the number 26 slot.
Mr. Alanskas: You can move the handicap anywhere.
Mr. Kattoo: No, but I'm saying if we leave the row of parking in the front that leaves the
dumpster from the turning radius about 30 feet.
Mr. Alanskas: You just said a few minutes ago that the cube is only 6 x 6 and that the truck
only needs 15 feet to get in there.
Mr. Kattoo: And this angle over here with the curb side and the side road,the truck would
almost be already facing north. But in this situation when he makes the turn he
is facing directly east.
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Mr. Alanskas: All he has to do is when he is through dumping, is back up about five feet and
swing out and leave. The biggest thing I want to see to that thing blocked so
people can't see it from Five Mile with the wall and with some landscaping.
Mr. Kattoo: I think the idea can definitely work. We just have to talk to the waste service
and just say where it can be placed that you can service these dumpsters, maybe
5 or 10 feet in either direction, but it would be placed where you are talking
about.
Mr. Alanskas: I would more than glad to come out there sometime and show you what I am
actually referring to. I think the Planning staff can work that out with you but I
think that is the spot to have it would be on that corner instead of on the west
side of the building. Right now in your old parking, you are showing two
parking spots and when I was there today a car was parked there and when it is
parked like that, you can't even get through this open area to get through there.
Mr. Kattoo: That is why we want to lay out a new parking layout.
Mr. Alanskas: That shouldn't even be there.
Mr. Kattoo: Right.
Mr. Alanskas: So that you have a drive through there. All right, thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McCann: This is a very tough situation with your dumpster in here, I agree. I kind of like
the revised spot because you do have the wall in the back and it takes the
garbage truck away from trying to cut through a parking lot especially when
there are pedestrians, children and vehicles that are going to be using it at the
same time the truck is going to be in there. There is no good spot without
bringing it right up to Five Mile and that requires the truck to drive around in
the parking lot. Is it possible to bring that dumpster even farther forward.
You've got the location at the northwest corner of the building. There is just no
way of reversing the directions?
Mr. Kattoo: Is there any way of reversing the dumpster itself?
Mr. McCann: Is it southwest? By changing the direction, how many spaces would you lose
there?
Mr. Kattoo: Roughly, about three spaces or four. The truck would have to come to the right
as you see the parking spots on the right side. They would have to be
eliminated so that they can line up.
Mr. McCann: Actually if you removed the two handicapped spaces you could have it in there,
angled.
Mr. Kattoo: There is a tree that is currently there now. I guess that would have to be lost in
order to angle it.
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Mr. McCann: If you angled it, it would go right in front of the tree, wouldn't it?
Mr. Kattoo: You are saying placing the dumpster in front of the tree, the opening facing
north, is that correct?
Mr. McCann: Yes.
Mr. Kattoo: If we were to place it there, then we would lose about four parking spaces easy.
Basically the parking to the right of the center would be lost.
Mr. McCann: No. If you angled it out towards the
Mr. Kattoo: If we angled it out towards to the northeast then the two handicapped parking
would be lost and possibly the one on the right side.
Mr. McCann: Actually, you would only lose the two. By bringing it over, by losing the one
you bring it over a little bit to the left. If you take the two handicapped out, and
you've got it right there you would be able to move the one handicapped spot
over one so that you wouldn't lose any more parking there. You could use the
excess from that one parking to do it. I am trying to get you out of here tonight.
I kind of like the new plan. You are going to have three pickups a week, that is
not too intrusive on the neighbors. It takes about four or five minutes to come
and pickup the dumpster and get out of their. I am trying to compromise with
the other points of view. It is valid. We try to protect the neighbors as much as
possible but I don't want it out on Five Mile either. I think maybe if we tried to
angle it in we could get you through this tonight and get you on your way so
you could proceed with this project.
Mr. Janviriya: I think one compromise could be to keep the proposed layout of the dumpster
but on the southwest corner of the lot we could add a greenbelt to camouflage
that area. I think that would be a valid compromise.
Mr. McCann: How much greenbelt could you put in there?
Mr. Janviriya: If we did a greenbelt, say 10 feet by 3 feet wide.
Mr. Kattoo: And add a row of maybe evergreens, some hedges for visual blockage.
Mr. Janviriya: I think it would be appealing to the residents and I think it would be a complete
compromise between....
Mr. McCann: You would have to go more than 10 feet. You would have to go at least 20 feet
just to keep the congruity of people driving back and forth.
Mr. Taormina: Just a quick question to the petitioner. Is the enclosure that is shown on the
print that you provided us larger than what is actually needed?
Mr. Kattoo: Yes.
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Mr. Taormina: Your latest petition would be to provide a landscaping belt along the sidewalk?
r.. Mr. Kattoo: Right.
Mr. Taormina: That would run from the edge of the dumpster back towards the alley in order to
screen that from view.
Mr. McCann: How many feet wide would that be?
Mr. Kattoo: Ultimately if we can go with one dumpster it would probably be 10 feet wide.
If we have to go with two dumpsters, I would say 15 feet wide. It is currently at
20 feet by 12.
Mr. McCann: What, the dumpster?
Mr. Kattoo: The dumpster in this picture is 20 ft. x 12 ft.
Mr. McCann: O.K. But bottom line is you can go to five pickups a week which is going to
service your center on a five yard dumpster or 10 yard dumpster.
Mr. Kattoo: Right now it is once or twice a week.
Mr. Alanskas: That's because there is no one there.
,,;,` Mr. McCann: So you could have a 10 foot wide, or say even an 8 foot wide greenbelt with
shrubbery, small berm going along the west wall. You say you also could put
how wide of a berm along the south wall? How much could he get in there,
Mark?
Mr. Kattoo: The south wall?
Mr. McCann: Yes. The wall going along the south property line.
Mr. Kattoo: We have a 15 foot alley there. That would make it very tight.
Mr. Taormina: I'm not sure that they would be willing to landscape that. I think that is paved
right now to the edge and there is just enough room probably for a car. One of
the initial alternatives that we discussed, was having the tenants have smaller
containers along the back alley but apparently that is something that they are not
willing to go with and so that just indicates just how narrow it is back there.
Mr. McCann: It is also hard to maintain and keep it clean when you do that.
Mr. Kattoo: When it comes to snow removal and things like that it is going to be very
difficult. Another thought in mind, and I understand that this is a shot in the
dark, but if we want to create a bigger wall or evergreens of whatever it may be,
can it be done on the west side of the sidewalk, which would be somewhat on
`" City property, but it is a greenbelt.
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Mr. McCann: No. We want a separation between the sidewalk and the dumpster. That is
what I am saying, if you went 50 feet there, the building is 50 feet deep so it
would appear to me that your greenbelt should be 50 feet by let's say if you need
10 feet for your dumpster pad, 10'X 50' along that edge would that give
everybody a little bit of comfort as far as protecting that end?
Mr. Alanskas: Would a truck be able to get in there though?
Mr. Kattoo: That is something I would have to ask...
Mr. McCann: 10 feet?
Mr. Alanskas: That is awful tight. Because where he is turning that is a short turn.
Mr. McCann: You would have to bank it.
Mr. Kattoo: It wouldn't have to go back as far or recede as far.
Mr. McCann: Well you could bank it in starting coming out so that the turn and even if it is an
8 foot,twelve foot is plenty to get a truck through.
Mr. Alanskas: Because then he has to back up.
Mr. Kattoo: What do you mean by "bank it"? You mean angle it to the south?
r..
Mr. McCann: The entrance drive there.
Mr. Kattoo: I asked the service company about that. They said they would like, maybe on
the approach which is the approach is on an angle and the truck will be on an
angle. I have been back and forth with Mark and the waste removal service
trying to find out the best solution and ask the questions every way possible and
that solution we thought of at one time and because the truck would not be even
they would not be able to service canisters properly.
Mr. McCann: But if there were only one canister....
Mr. Kattoo: If it is angled, it would have to be ...
Mr. McCann: No, not angled. I am talking about if you are coming here. If you have 8 feet
here, can the truck come around to pickup. You will have a 12 feet drive to pick
up the garbage.
Mr. Kattoo: I think that would be possible but I'm not the driver so I would have to find out.
Mr. Alanskas: Then he has to back up?
Mr. McCann: He would have to back around,they should all have TV cameras in the back of
`'•- the truck. I represent a waste hauler so I am very familiar with some of the
problems they have.
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Mr. Piercecchi: Doesn't it seem like to would be prudent here, some people have ideas and we
811111I,. have a good mixture here that we take care of this particular area, this petition,
and leave the dumpster question that they can return and work with our staff and
us on it and come up with the most logical and effective way to do it rather than
hash out four or five different schemes here?
Mr. McCann: Should we pass on the building and send that on and hold off on the dumpster?
Mr. Taormina: It would be a call back item. You would have to bring it back at sometime to
review the final design if that is what you desire. It is not an easy solution.
Mr. McCann: The parking lot is the only problem and that is going to be one of the last things
you do.
Mr. Kattoo: We have to do it after the renovations so that we don't damage the re-striping.
Mr. Alanskas: Did we discuss about the colors of the brick?
Mr. Taormina: Maybe along those thoughts, we could have another site evaluation with the
petitioner and a couple of the commissioners and then bring this item back for
further study. If we do come to an agreement, it could be redrawn in a fashion
similar to this and brought back to a study session to see if you would want to
bring it back to a regular meeting for review and consideration.
Nie..
Mr. McCann: But we can go ahead and approve the site plan and the building elevations
tonight and get you going.
Mr. Kattoo: Yes, go ahead with the renovations and then make that a separate issue.
Mr. McCann: That's fine. Is there a motion?
Mr. Alanskas: Mr. Chairman, I have one more question. We didn't discuss in regards to the
pillars, we would like to see those all brick instead of the dryvit.
Mr. Janviriya: What we had proposed is called a pansamosh. I have used it in locations at
Fourth and Main Street in an area of Royal Oak and it has held up more than
necessary.
Mr. Alanskas: We have found that when you use dryvit...
Mr. Janviriya: This is a new grade.
Mr. Alanskas: I know, it is a heavy duty grade. You are going to have a whole row of cars
parking right in front of this whole facility. There is nothing here to stop them
from hitting these pillars.
�"' Mr. Janviriya: But there is also a four foot sidewalk. This is flush to the wall.
17267
Mr. Alanskas: I understand that.
Mr. Kattoo: There will be parking blocks to stop any cars from encroaching onto the
sidewalk.
Mr. Alanskas: I know what this is. I have seen this before. It has come before us quite a few
times. Is there a problem having that all brick?
Mr. Kattoo: To answer your question about cars that there is nothing to stop them in front of
the walkway, there will be a row of parking blocks to stop any cars from
intruding on to the walkway.
Mr. Alanskas: We never have a problem approving dryvit when it is higher up on the building.
When it is down at the bottom we find first of all, when snowplows drive by
they throw salt over there, with the salt in the driveway. It just deteriorates
pretty rapidly compared to brick.
Mr. Kattoo: We have used this on many sites and it has held up very well over the years.
Regarding the salt, we use calcium chloride along the walkway instead of the
salt. If we were to move forward and brick this, the cost to brick it would have
to put in a foundation to support the brick. It may put us over budget and it
would not be feasible on the cost.
Mr. Janviriya: Also not only that but it is going to pull away from the look of our design.
Mr. Alanskas: You could still have your diamonds in there.
Mr. Janviriya: The diamonds, but the materials are not going to tie in visually from the ground
up.
Mr. Alanskas: Oh, from the top up.
Mr. Janviriya: The reason is why it is, is vertically those columns line up with the columns that
support those peaks and if I change the material, then it is going to throw off the
entire look and the feeling I was going for.
Mr. Alanskas: All right, thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McCann: The columns are decorative but is there anyway you could go to a....
Mr. Janviriya: One concept we had was to build on then use a concrete board sub-straight then
use plastering that we would use for the E.F.I.S. to get the color and the look
and I could still the dimension I am going for.
Mr. Alanskas: Come again, you would be using what?
Mr. Janviriya: Concrete and 1/2" concrete boards.
Mr. Alanskas: Then put dryvit over the concrete?
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Mr. Janviriya: Not dryvit. We are not going to put the foam,just the plaster itself
Mr. Alanskas: Oh, the plaster itself?
Mr. Janviriya: Right. It will be solid as concrete but it will have my color that I am looking
for.
Mr. Piercecchi: Just on the bottom?
Mr. Janviriya: Right. Just on the bottom.
Mr. Piercecchi: How high will it go?
Mr. Janviriya: I believe we have a 9 foot soffit.
Mr. Piercecchi: So you are going to make it a masonry column then. You just didn't want to
use the brick, is that correct?
Mr. Janviriya: Right.
Mr. Piercecchi: I don't understand why you can't put the brick on the sidewalk.
Mr. Janviriya: Because it is not going to visually tie in.
New
Mr. McCann: Besides that you've got to have a foundation.
Mr. Piercecchi: You see, it has been our experience, that is why we are questioning this
material, that anytime there are carts or anything like that, bicycles or things like
that, they bang into and that stuff does chip. It is susceptible to chipping.
Brick, if it chips, you never see it. It still carries its beauty.
Mr. Janviriya: I understand. My E.I.F.S. man and I came up with what we think work real
well. It will be solid and it will tie the design visually together.
Mr. McCann: Can you go with the concrete, Dan?
Mr. Piercecchi: Yes, I can go with the concrete.
Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions from the Commissioners, I will go to the
audience. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against this
petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-188-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Council that Petition 99-10-8-26 by Van Born Plaza, on behalf of the
Livonia Five Plaza, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58
of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate the exterior
17269
building elevations of the commercial center located at 28423 Five Mile Road
in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 24 be approved subject to the following
�.. conditions:
1) That the "Liv-5 Plaza Exterior Renovations" plans prepared by Paul Fritz
Associates, dated October 13, 1999, are hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
2) That the parking lot be resealed and double striped;
3) That the wall signs shown on the approved elevation plans are not
approved with this petition;
4) That the existing pylon sign is not approved as part of the site plan;
5) That the location of the dumpster(s) is not approved as part of the site
plan and shall be referred back to the Planning Commission for further
study; and
6) That the material at the base of the decorative columns shall consist of
either concrete or concrete board for added durability.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Janviriya: We spoke with the Building Department and they had no problem with the pylon
sign. In fact, I called to inquire about the refacing of that pylon sign and they
had no problem with that.
Mr. Alanskas: Just the top?
Mr. Janviriya: Right.
Mr. Alanskas: All right, we'll just have the pylon sign come back to us at a later date. Would
that be correct Mark?
Mr. Taormina: I guess that depends on the extent of the modifications to the sign.
Mr. McCann: They can go ahead and reface unless we put it...
Mr. Alanskas: The pole is fine but the top of it is all smashed in.
Mr. Kattoo: It happened during that storm.
Mr. Janviriya: One of the designs I was going to do was use elements of the design of the
building and tie that into the pylon sign.
Mr. McCann: Let's go ahead and that sign is not approved as part of the site plan. It is not
`"" conforming and we will bring it back again.
17270
Mr. Kattoo: As a separate entity.
Mr. Alanskas: The same as the dumpster.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It
will go on to City Council with an approving resolution and we will be seeing more of you
gentlemen. That concludes the Miscellaneous Site Plan portion of our agenda. We will now
proceed with the Pending Item section of our agenda. These items have been discussed at
length in prior meetings therefore, there will only be limited discussion tonight. Audience
participation will require unanimous consent from the Commission.
ITEM #4 PETITION 99-9-2-28 MODERN MOVING COMPANY
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-9-2-28
by Modern Moving Company (31465 Eight Mile Road) requesting waiver use
approval to permit outdoor parking of moving company vehicles on property
located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman Road and
Osmus Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 3.
Mr. Piercecchi: I move that we remove this item from the table.
On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
�... #11-189-99 RESOLVED that, Petition 99-9-2-28 by Modern Moving Company requesting
waiver use approval to permit outdoor parking of moving company vehicles on
property located on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman Road
and Osmus Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 3 be taken from the table.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. Is
there any new additional information, Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: No, there are no additional items of correspondence pertaining to this petition.
Mr. McCann: Is the petitioner here this evening?
Denis Rice, 17364 Maple Hill Drive, Northville.
Gerry A. Bagazinski, as the petitioner's representative, and my business address is 32900 Five
Mile Road, Livonia.
Mr. McCann: Anything additional to tell us this evening?
Mr. Bagazinski: There are a couple of items that were brought up at the public hearing that we
have addressed at the site location. With respect to the report of the Building
Inspector there was mention of the fact that there was some debris that was on
the southeast corner of the property. This has been brought to the petitioner's
``r attention and my understanding is that the debris has been picked up and has
been removed from the site. One of the other issues that has been brought up in
17271
addition to this was the concern over the barbed wire on the fence. I am under
the understanding that the barbed wire has been removed. There is some barbed
�.. wire on the western fence line and we believe that barbed wire is the neighbor's
barbed wire and it is their fence line. That has not been removed. I think that
the third additional item that has been brought to the petitioner's attention
involved the parking lot, the barrier free parking and that the lot needed some
sealing and being restriped. The petitioner recently acquired this property in
June of this year and intends to make those improvements next year in the
spring.
Mr. McCann: Are there any questions?
Mr. Alanskas: At our last meeting in which you were here, some of the neighbors had
addressed a problem in regards to the use of loud speakers as early as three
o'clock in the morning. Do you have those there?
Mr. Rice: We have a loud speaker there, but the only person that would use that would be
the secretaries and they don't get there until after 8:00. We are in the process
of going to a wireless system for all drivers and we will have basically
walkie/talkies to communicate.
Mr. Alanskas: So the speakers will be taken down?
Mr. Rice: Yes.
Mr. Alanskas: All right. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: You say the barbed wire is on the neighbor's fence. Which neighbor?
Mr. Rice: On the western side.
Mr. McCann: Do we know who owns that property?
Mr. Taormina: No, we are not aware of the owner.
Mr. Alanskas: Can you tell us who that is?
Mr. Rice: It is property management. It is a multi-tenant unit building.
Mr. McCann: Why would they have barbed wire?
Mr. Rice: That part of the fence is their fence, it is not mine.
Mr. McCann: How did you find that out? You are guessing it is their fence? You've only
been there since June.
Mr. Rice: I've owned the building since June. I was renting it for the previous year. The
reason I know it is not mine because last year when the snow was removed by
my snow contractor, he pushed that fence in and I had to repair it.
17272
Mr. McCann: They contacted you?
Mr. Rice: The management company that owns that building. I had to repair the fence
when the snow was pushed into it and bent the fence.
Mr. Taormina: One quick question to the Chair, if I may, and that is whether the barbed wire
overhangs one side of the fence or the other. Maybe that would be an
indication of who owns it and whether or not this gentleman has the right to
remove it.
Mr. Bagazinski: I went out to examine the parcel, the barbed wire leans to the western edge.
Mr. McCann: Any other questions? Hearing none, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-190-99 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City
Planning Commission on October 19, 1999 on Petition 99-9-2-28 by Modern
Moving Company (31465 Eight Mile Road) requesting waiver use approval to
permit outdoor parking of moving company vehicles on property located on the
south side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman Road and Osmus Avenue in
the Northeast 1/4 of Section 3, the Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 99-9-2-28 be approved subject to
the following conditions:
1) That the total number of moving company trucks to be parked or stored
on the subject site at any one time shall not exceed 20 trucks;
2) That this waiver use approval shall only apply to the portion of the
subject property zoned M-1, which is further defined as the northerly 300
feet and more generally identified as the portion of the site lying north of
the rear wall of the existing building;
3) That moving company trucks shall not be parked or stored any closer to
the Eight Mile Road right-of-way line than the offset in the westerly
building wall marking the south end of the office portion of the building,
nor shall any moving company trucks be parked any further south than
the rear wall of the existing building;
4) That other than routine maintenance,there shall be no on site repair of
trucks and other vehicles;
5) That all the existing barbed wire on top of the chain link fence enclosing
the subject property shall be removed;
6) That the petitioner shall correct to the Inspection's satisfaction the
following site deficiencies as outlined in their correspondence dated
September 29, 1999:
17273
- That the debris in the southeast corner of the site shall be cleaned
r... up;
That parking areas shall be repaired, resealed and double striped
and barrier free parking shall be provided in conformance to the
Michigan Barrier Free Rules as to size and location; and
7) That all of the conditions imposed on this site in connection with Zoning
Board of Appeals Case No. 8609-157 shall be adhered to; and
8) That the use of the existing loud speakers, which presently is a nuisance
to the residential neighborhood to the south, shall be discontinued.
for the following reasons:
1) That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and
19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2) That the site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use, and
3) That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the
surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of the above hearing was given in
accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as
amended.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Bagazinski: I have a point of clarification here. I think that our petition was for the
northerly 350 feet of that particular lot and I would like to clarify that. All of
that has been approved for an M-1 use.
Mr. LaPine: No it has not. We can't use it for an M-1 use. Isn't that right?
Mr. Taormina: Although the Zoning Board of Appeals has granted the additional 50 feet as it
applies to that northerly portion of the RUF zoned property, it is at this
Commission's determination this evening as to whether or not the waiver use
should apply to that portion of the property and the ordinance does provide for
their review of this issue and determination as to whether or not it is appropriate
to continue the use over all or a portion of the site.
Mr. McCann: I think we have pretty much limited 300 feet all the way up and down as our
standard as to what we are trying to use as Commercial or M-1 along that line.
We have set that standard over the past number of years for all new petitions.
The ZBA can allow it, the site plan is what is controlling.
17274
Mr. Bagazinski: Just as a point of clarification and what you are suggesting, and I guess as I
read Mr. Taormina's memorandum there, that to incorporate the rear 50 feet
'oar would be a Zoning Board of Appeals matter?
Mr. McCann: No. You can't do it.
Mr. Taormina: The Planning Commission makes the determination on the waiver use.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
Mr. Alanskas: Mark what is it in regards with the court problems and the costs?
Mr. Taormina: In fact that was going to be considered as a separate resolution if the
Commission approves that.
Mr. McCann: Mr. Alanskas, did you want to make a motion?
On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, and seconded by Mr. LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-191-99 RESOLVED that, in the matter of Petition 99-9-2-28 by Modern Moving
Company (31465 Eight Mile Road) requesting waiver use approval to permit
outdoor parking of moving company vehicles on property located on the south
side of Eight Mile Road between Merriman and Osmus Avenue in the Northeast
1/4 of Section 3, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the
City Council that the City seek reimbursement from the petitioner for all costs
relating to the court proceedings against the petitioner in connection with his
continued unauthorized use of the subject property and that such costs be paid
prior to approval of the waiver use by the City Council.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion? That is a separate resolution just for us to make a
recommendation to the Council and it has no binding affect.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #5 PETITION 99-9-8-23 CANVASSER BROTHERS (Buckingham Plaza)
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-9-8-23
by Canvasser Brothers, on behalf of the Buckingham Plaza, requesting approval
of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning ordinance in connection
with a proposal to renovate a portion of the exterior building elevation of the
shopping center located at 27462 Schoolcraft Road in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 24.
Mr. Piercecchi: I will make a motion to remove from the table
On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, approved by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was
17275
#11-192-99 RESOLVED that, Petition 99-9-8-23 by Canvasser Brothers, on behalf of the
Buckingham Plaza, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58
of the zoning ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate a portion of
the exterior building elevation of the shopping center located at 27462
Schoolcraft Road in the southeast 1/4 of Section 24 be taken from the table.
Mr. McCann: Mark, is there any new information?
Mr. Taormina: At this time there are no new items of correspondence related to this item.
Robert Canvasser and my brother Bryon Canvasser, 30200 Telegraph, Bingham Farms,
Michigan.
Mr. McCann: Tell us where we are at this evening. What is new and exciting?
R. Canvasser: We had a study meeting with you folks and you asked if we would consider
having the automobile club building painted. At that meeting we said we would
have to talk to our partners, which we have, and it has been agreed that we
certainly will paint that building in the front, the side and the rear. We'll paint
the building entirely. You asked that question. Also Mark has contacted me
and asked us if we could do something cosmetically to enhance it somewhat.
Our response to Mark was that I would go back to our architects and see if we
might be able to raze it somewhat, I don't want to say how much, I'm not a
designer. Perhaps we could put a couple of peaks on it and perhaps some color
into it to enhance it somewhat. I said that to Mark and in all honesty,
gentlemen, this is the third meeting we have attended and I said it to Mark
asking if it might be approved with what I just said to you folks that we would
have the drawings done and bring them to Scott. That Scott could then show
them to you. The meetings are, I'm not 40 years old like these other young
people and I'll tell you, I'm 75 and these meetings are just too difficult on me
and very very frankly, if that is acceptable to you, we would proceed on that
understanding as far as the painting, that goes without saying. That certainly
will be done.
Mr. McCann: See all these meetings you go to and all this work you do has kept you both
very young. You both look like 45 years old. Mark do you have a suggestion
as to how to handle this?
Mr. Taormina: Yes. I guess if the Planning Commission agrees, we could handle it in a fashion
similar to the item we just discussed involving the Livonia 5 Plaza. That is any
changes to the elevations would be brought forward for the Council's
consideration and then the Council may seek some report back from the
Planning Commission relative to whether or not that meets your concerns on
this. I think that might be the appropriate way to deal with this. If you want to
move forward and if we want to bring it back to you for a report prior to the
final review and consideration by the Council, I think at a minimum they would
look for that review.
17276
Mr. Piercecchi: Are you saying Mark that we will not see these potentially proposed
modifications to beautify this facility. That is will go to the Council before we
°v... get a look at it?
Mr. Taormina: What I am saying is that you would have an opportunity to review the plans and
report back to the Council prior to them taking fmal action.
Mr. Piercecchi: I am very concerned about the aesthetics of that thing. I took advantage of you
when you stated where one of your sites was. In fact I went to two of them but
one of them had the parking lot was quite full so I couldn't photograph it. But
the one on 12 Mile and Dequindre, the parking lot was empty.
R. Canvasser: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you were there at midnight.
Mr. Piercecchi: I took these photographs and we had them enlarged for the Commission. When
I looked at this, I felt very sad that you would put walkways and peaks and it is
a rather nice looking facility. At the onset, for us, you really wanted to give us a
self-storage type of look, straight across, no personality, really out of character
with the times now. You say the one we approved. That was a beautiful
package. I don't know about these costs but you know you've got to spend
money to make money too in this world. You claim that you can only get X
number of dollars but I don't want to get into that. But this facility here is a
pleasant looking facility and I don't think that we in Livonia deserve anything
less.
B. Canvasser: What you see is what was built some 40 years ago and all we did was put dryvit
on the face of what was built originally.
R. Canvasser: That overhang is not a new overhang. That overhang was there when it was an
AFD, when that center was originally built.
Mr. Piercecchi: An overhang would do a lot for your facility. That'll keep people out of the rain
and people can shop. I don't know what they cost but I think you are trying, you
know I quite agree with your effort and I don't want to be disrespectful in this
matter sir, it is like a window. You've got grime on both sides of the window.
If you wash one side of the window, you do reduce the total amount of grime
but you still have a dirty window. O.K.? I think that is the tendency that we are
trying to avoid here. If you are going to do this thing, I think you better try to
do it great. Try to do it the best you can all in one shot. This looks good and
I'm glad to hear you are thinking about peaks. There can be other things too,
you know,towers, something to give it personality.
R. Canvasser: As you see on that one there, the architect did put a little bit more schmaltz in it
perhaps and I would like to do that here. As far as putting an overhang on, an
overhang is out of the question. Just today I renewed the lease with one of the
tenants there, Jack's Produce. Not that that makes any difference to you folks
there. I haven't had a raise from Jack's Produce since 1996.
17277
Mr. Piercecchi: We have been through this before sir. We understand. You beat it to death on
how little you get here and how much you get there. I know you are a nice
r.,, person because I happen to be in the rental areas which goes perpendicular to
the lot and they said you people were really nice people. So I don't even
question that you are not nice people. The point is we want the best we can get
for Livonia and your original plan certainly was just a lick and a promise.
R. Canvasser: What I suggested to Mark and what I am saying to you is that this is an upgrade
of what we talked about at the study session and what we talked about when we
came in here the first time and I don't know what more we are offer you. It is
very difficult to take an old building and make it into a young building. The
building there is older than some of the people in the audience. We are trying to
do what we can.
Mr. Piercecchi: I realize that you have a certain amount of problems, for instance the southwest
wing.
B. Canvasser: That is by Frank's Nursery.
Mr. Piercecchi: That is about 80% isn't going to be touched. About 80%of that whole wing is
going to be left alone. I don't know how you are going to blend that in but it is
important that you do. It seems to me that that billiard place is much taller,
correct?
,Now B. Canvasser: Yes it is.
Mr. Piercecchi: O.K. There is where some of the things sitting on top may help balance that off
but I am pleased that you are willing to make some exterior modifications to try
and give it a little more personality and to give it a little more up to date look.
Mr. LaPine: I am not happy with what these gentlemen are doing and I understand
everything Dan says but we've got two choices here. We either approve what
we can get or we deny it and they don't do anything and the center continues to
get worse. I would rather have half a loaf of bread than no bread at all. I'm not
happy. I wish he would go in there and spend 2 million dollars and renovate the
whole operation but from what he told us, that isn't going to happen. If we deny
him, what have we gained? Nothing.
Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions, a motion is in order.
Mr. LaPine: Mark, do you think we can work something out here that we can get better than
what they originally showed us? He talks about he only wants to spend $50,000
or$60,000 and he says that is his maximum he mentioned to us. I don't know
how much more he can do beyond what he showed us unless he is willing to
spend some extra money.
Mr. Taormina: Well clearly the improvements to the plan would have to be cost effective to the
point where they don't jeopardize the project or he begins to take something
away on some other feature. I think that it is important that we do provide some
17278
limited direction to the petitioner this evening as to what the expectations are
possibly with making these improvements whether it is in the form of offsetting
peaks or an increase in the height of the parapet or possibly the addition of
peaks or a cornice of some sort or a combination of both or just accent bands.
Whatever it might be, a combination of those that he could use to go back to his
architect and then present revised plans.
Mr. LaPine: If that is the point, then I have to agree with Dan on this point. I don't want to
pass it on to Council until we see them and we are satisfied. Would it be the
thing to do here is to table it again? Let them go back to their architect and with
whatever input you can give them and they can come back with another set of
plans and show us that they are trying to give us something more than what
they've got. Would that be acceptable to everybody?
Mr. Piercecchi: It is to me.
Mr. Alanskas: You are not on a time restraint, are you?
R. Canvasser: No. The work won't be done until next year anyway.
Mr. Alanskas: I, as one Commissioner, don't like approving something and saying well we
may do this or we may do that. I would rather, like Mr. LaPine says, table it
and see what else you can do and bring it back to us and then get it going.
R. Canvasser: Let me add one thing. First of all, what Mr. LaPine said, $50,000 or $60,000,
that figure is not right. That is for the dryvit. We are going to spend another
$50,000 on signs.
Mr. Alanskas: We're not talking about signage.
R. Canvasser: No, we are talking about putting individual lettered signs on there. It is not that
we are only spending $50,000 or $60,000 there, we are spending considerably
over $100,000. That is item number one. Item number two, at the study
meeting, I was asked, which I responded to, it was only today that I made the
additional offer to Mark. Perhaps I shouldn't have made the offer to Mark.
Mr. Alanskas: I understand what you are saying but I would rather, like Mr. LaPine, table this
and have you go back and see what you really want to do with it and then bring
it back to us in that way so we know exactly what we are getting, whether you
want to put one peak on or two. I would rather see it in writing and see a
picture of what you are going to do. To vote on something that is not specific, I
as one Commissioner, can't do that.
R. Canvasser: I did offer to Mark that we would do what we could do. I would take it to Scott
and you are certainly welcome to see them at that time rather than come back to
another meeting.
`+er Mr. Alanskas: Being that you are not on a time restraint....
17279
R. Canvasser: I am on a physical restrain, I will be very frank with you gentlemen.
r„/ Mr. Alanskas: I understand that but you have to understand our view point also. I hate to vote
on something that I don't know what I am voting on.
Mr. McCann: If we do get through this, and we get a revised plan and we are satisfied with it,
we can waive your presence at the hearing. If you've got something the
Commissioners, I think right now the only thing we've got is the AAA being
painted, if we could just get some change in elevations on the buildings, maybe
as Mark says, a little bit of combinations, we'll just waive your presence.
Obviously we enjoy your company and you are welcome back every time, but
we agree with you, it is very exhausting to sit through all these meetings and sit
through all this, so if you could get your architect to add something, change the
elevation a little bit to give it a little more distinctive look. Send it over, we'll
take a look at it on the study. If it is fine, we will put it on the next regular
meeting to approve it and you won't have to appear back. Is that fair?
R. Canvasser: That is fair. That is fine.
Mr. Piercecchi: There is only one other thing, Mr. Chairman, the tabling motion wanted also a
schedule of when improvements would be completed. Just some kind of a time
line so that we would know that the service drive behind the building is going to
be looked up. You can set up your time line. We just want a time line so we
know that it is in the mill. Can we have that?
r...
R. Canvasser: It would all be done certainly next spring.
B. Canvasser: What about the alley?
R. Canvasser: What are we talking about here? Let's see if we have a clear understanding of
what we are talking about the alley.
Mr. Piercecchi: Everything.
Mr. McCann: Just tell us when things will be done.
R. Canvasser: If you are talking about patching and repairing, I have no objection to that. I
want it clearly understood.
Mr. Piercecchi: We just want a time line.
Mr. McCann: Does he need a surface coat on that, Mark?
Mr. Taormina: Right now I don't know if that would do much for very long. There are some
sections that appear to be failing. Some areas are worse than others that in the
long term are going to require replacement altogether. It looks like they have
already done patching over the years especially around the manhole structures.
'"' I don't know how the drainage is working back there now but that would
probably be the one factor....
17280
Mr. McCann: So you are going to have to replace it within a period of time so give us a patch
— and repair date and then a replacement date. Is that fair?
R. Canvasser: A patch and repair? I don't know what I can say about this.
Mr. McCann: That is going to fix the pot holes and get you from ....
Mr. Alanskas: So you won't lose any cars as they drive by.
R. Canvasser: They are not losing any cars.
Mr. McCann: All right. Then just get us something where they will go through, and I don't
know if they have to chop it up or whether they put on a seal coat and then they
put a new layer right over it.
R. Canvasser: It is a concrete alley. It's not a matter of seal coat. What has ended up
happening, as Byron explained to you at our first meeting, there has been a
number of water main breaks in there so therefore the concrete is in pretty bad
shape. I don't deny that. It is displaced. You can't pave over it because it
telescopes immediately right through. It can be patched with asphalt in certain
areas. We were in the alley today, Byron and I checked it out today very
carefully. We did find two catch basins that happened to under the triple net
lease of Frank's Nursery and down at the Frank's Nursery area and Frank's
Nursery was notified today to get those catch basins repaired.
B. Canvasser: And they promised to do it.
Mr. McCann: I'm going to cut you off. We've got to move on here tonight. There is a list that
the Planning Director has of what has to be done. I am going to give you a copy
of that and you are going to provide us with a time line with when those things
can be done. You are also going to get the plans to him so that we can look
over to kind of get some changes in the elevations and get back with us.
Mr. Alanskas: We should make a motion to table then?
Mr. McCann: Let's table it to the December 14, 1999 meeting.
On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-193-99 RESOLVED that,the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
table Petition 99-9-8-23 by Canvasser Brothers, on behalf of the Buckingham
Plaza, requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the zoning
ordinance in connection with a proposal to renovate a portion of the exterior
building elevation of the shopping center located at 27462 Schoolcraft Road in
the Southeast 1/4 of Section 24 to December 14, 1999.
Mr. Alanskas: We are trying to work with you.
17281
R. Canvasser: I appreciate it.
,,r„ Mr. McCann: We appreciate your cooperation. We understand. It is for the benefit for both
of us, the City and you.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #6 PETITION 99-7-GB-1 DR. JAMES A. MARCOUX
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-7-GB-1
by Dr. James A. Marcoux, on behalf of Marcoux Chiropractic, requesting
approval to substitute a greenbelt for the protective wall as outlined in Section
18.45 of the zoning ordinance for property located at 15825 Middlebelt Road in
the Southeast 1/4 of Section 14.
Mr. Piercecchi: I make a motion to remove from the table.
On a motion by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-194-99 RESOLVED that, Petition 99-7-GB-1 by Dr. James A. Marcoux, on behalf of
Marcoux Chiropractic, requesting approval to substitute a greenbelt for the
protective wall as outlined in Section 18.45 of the zoning ordinance for property
located at 15825 Middlebelt Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 14 be taken
from the table.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
Dr. James A. Marcoux, 19909 St. Francis, Livonia. Pm not real sure what all this is about. I
would like keep to the greenbelt that I have had for years since I have been
there. We have a greenbelt in back of the office at the end of the parking lot.
The only thing that has changed in the last year has been that they have
eliminated the driveway that the old age home had and they have blocked it off
so that now there is just a house in back of me. So there is actually less traffic.
I think a greenbelt is attractive. It adds just a breath of air to that area. Recently
we went ahead and got a couple of truck loads of briars and whatever we could
pull out of there and we are just in the process of doing this in the last couple of
weeks. Like I said, we got about two truck loads and I was informed that I
could call the City and hopefully I could get them to haul it out of there because
it is not something that you can bag. It is too much. That is where I stand. If
we could get this continued instead of having, I guess what has taken place, if I
understand it right, is that we have had to bring this up every so many years to
keep the greenbelt there. It's been there since the building was built and it looks
good. It's apropos. It serves the job for me. There is no real traffic or
commotion back in there and I think it is good for the City and I think it's good
for myself and I think it is good for the people around me.
Mr. Alanskas: When you got a variance from the ZBA how many years did they give you for
renewal?
17282
Dr. Marcoux: I really don't know. It has been so long, I can't remember.
Mr. Alanskas: Do you recall when you when before the ZBA for a variance?
Dr. Marcoux: It's got to be past 10 years. I think this is the first time I can really remember
but the last eight years have been a tizzy for me.
Mr. Alanskas: The reason I ask is because sometimes they give three years, sometime they
give five. Sometimes they give seven years and I just wondered.
Dr. Marcoux: It must have been beyond seven because I don't recall one in the last, unless you
gentlemen have something that I could review, because I don't recall coming for
a variance for years.
Mr. Alanskas: O.K.
Mr. LaPine: I was out there originally when you were suppose to come before us and you
didn't show up. The landscaping around your building, it just seems like it is
running wild. Have you done anything to do?
Dr. Marcoux: Yes, we have. I was just making a remark Bill. I have been limited on funds. I
have gone through a bloodbath divorce and I wasn't expecting it. So I have
been out there myself and a couple of friends and we did, we started in the
spring of the year. We chopped down a whole bunch of stuff and got things
roughed in order and again just this last couple of weeks, I was saying, we had
a mass push, I had two or three friends out there helping me for the last week
and have been hauling stuff away. We've had some stuff dumped on us and I
don't know where it came from but I took care of it. If you were to go out there
tonight or tomorrow you will see that it has been cleaned up considerably,
especially on the south side of the whole property line all the way from front to
back.
Mr. LaPine: I am talking about along the building. Back of the building, where it is all
natural growth, I have no problem with that because that is all wild growth.
Around your building, up against your building, it just looks like it needs to
have something done.
Dr. Marcoux: We have raked and cut and taken all of the shrubs that were getting too tall, we
have cut them back.
Mr. LaPine: I'll check it out. That was my only concern. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Piercecchi: Sir, I am just concerned, right now, with the greenbelt that is going to be on the
west part of your building. When I saw the site it really looked like it needed a
tremendous amount of maintenance. It really looked terrible. I understand now
from you are saying, and I haven't been back since for about 10 days now, are
you planning on adding anything additional in there? I think if you clean out all
of the trash, you aren't going to have anything there.
17283
Dr. Marcoux: We cleaned out a lot of stuff and just the normal green, there is a lot of wild
*g.r raspberries that grow in there and when it is green in the spring and summer, it
looks really nice and they'll come back in the spring of the year again and just
the trees and bushes that naturally occurring in nature there,they look nice.
Yes, it was a mess and I'll be the first one to admit to that and I have put a
massive push on getting that done. I've been in court with a divorce over 200
years in the last seven years.
Mr. McCann: Sir, I understand, but what we are dealing with tonight is what we are going to
get in the future.
Dr. Marcoux: I've dealt with a big push on it in the spring of this year. We have painted the
trim on the building. We put some new lights up. We've done the cleaning up
of the yard part of itself.
Mr. Piercecchi: We are dealing with only the greenbelt.
Dr. Marcoux: We've got that considerably cleaned up and what we need now is to have a
couple of pickups and I think we will be looking pretty darn good.
Mr. Piercecchi: I personally don't have a problem with the greenbelt. In fact there is one north
of you that ties into that one, right?
Dr. Marcoux: Right.
Mr. Piercecchi: That one is sparse too and there is a lot of vacant area in there. It is unfortunate
that you people don't put in pine trees in because you are abutting residential
property.
Dr. Marcoux: I am abutting a parking lot in back of me that goes on into a church and then
beyond that
Mr. Piercecchi: What is the name of that place there next to you?
Dr. Marcoux: On the south?
Mr. Piercecchi: On the north.
Mr. McCann: West of him is Woodhaven
Dr. Marcoux: Woodhaven is the church and there is an apostolic church in back of me which
is first on the west of me and a little bit north and then the parking lot is directly
in back of me. The parking lot they have for the apostolic church. In deeper
into the parking, whatever it is, a quarter of a mile there is an old age home back
in there which is part of the Woodhaven.
Mr. Piercecchi: By the way you talk, you want to make it nice so I would assume you will
fortify what is there to with some additional plantings?
17284
Dr. Marcoux: Yes we have already done that. We have put some different flowers in, wild
flowers and it is coming along. I do apologize for it being in the state it was in
and if you were to go out there tomorrow, you see a mass improvement if you
look at it.
Mr. Alanskas: Forget 1998 and 1997, from 1995 to 1997, or from 1990 to 1997 do you have a
maintenance schedule with a landscaping firm that takes care of your greenbelt
before you had these financial problems? I mean, is it maintained? When you
give someone a permanent greenbelt you can say right now you are taking a big
push right now to get it cleaned up because you want tog et it approved. So if
we approve a permanent greenbelt, and you say well now it's approved and I'll
let it go for the next five years and let it stay the way it is.
Dr. Marcoux: Bob, I'm not going to tell you, I have been basically cleaning it myself except
for the people cutting my grass. They'll go ahead and blow it with the blowers
and stuff like that.
Mr. Alanskas: If you have been taking care of it yourself, what I am saying is it hasn't been
taken care of property.
Dr. Marcoux: No it hasn't.
Mr. Alanskas: No just this year but the last five years. So it tells me that it has not been taken
care of and maybe in the future it won't be taken care of again.
*gm.
Dr. Marcoux: I hope not. I know that is not what you want to hear but in 1991 all hell broke
lose on me and I am starting to get my life back together.
Mr. Alanskas: I just hope that you will take care of this.
Dr. Marcoux: I will and I thank you fellows and your understanding.
Mr. McCann: If there are no further questions, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. LaPine and approved, it was
#11-195-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition
99-7-GB-1 by Dr. James A. Marcoux, on behalf of Marcoux Chiropractic,
requesting approval to substitute a greenbelt for the protective wall as outlined
in Section 18.45 of the zoning ordinance for property located at 15825
Middlebelt Road in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 14 subject to the following
conditions:
1) That the natural landscaped greenbelt along the west property line, as
shown on the plan received by the Planning Commission on July 9, 1999,
shall be substituted for the protective wall required by Section 18.45 of
► the Zoning Ordinance;
17285
2) That this area shall remain in its present state and any changes to this area
shall require Planning Commission review and approval.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
AYES: LaPine, Piercecchi, McCann
NAYS: Alanskas
ABSENT: Hale, Koons, Shane
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #7 PETITION 99-5-GB-2 PIERSON CENTER
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 99-5-GB-2
by Pierson Center requesting approval to substitute a greenbelt for the protective
wall as outlined in Section 18.45 of the zoning ordinance for property located at
32625 Seven Mile road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 10.
Mr. Piercecchi: I make a motion to remove from the table.
On a motion by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-196-99 RESOLVED that, Petition 99-5-GB-2 by Pierson Center requesting approval to
substitute a greenbelt for the protective wall as outlined in Section 18.45 of the
zoning ordinance for property located at 32625 Seven Mile Road in the
Northwest 1/4 of Section 10 be taken from the table.
Mr. Miller: I just want to point out that we have received a new site plan since the study
meeting with the changes suggested by the Planning Commission. As you
remember there were five trees planted here with a boulder and shrubbery along
this area. The Planning Commission suggested a few more trees along this side
of the parking lot and they now show an additional three trees along there. It is
now more of a half circle around the parking lot.
Dawn Taylor, 32625 W. Seven Mile.
Mr. McCann: I see you've cleaned everything up. I walk my dog by your place every night.
Ms. Taylor: They did a good job. I think they have done a good job for the last few years.
They went through some difficulties, our landscaping company did. It is a big
turn over job and I think these last two years they have done pretty good, a little
late in the season.
Mr. McCann: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Hearing none, a motion is in
order.
""' On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Alanskas, and unanimously approved, it was
17286
#11-197-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby approve Petition
r,.. 99-5-GB-2 by Pierson Center requesting approval to substitute a greenbelt for
the protective wall as outlined in Section 18.45 of the zoning ordinance for
property located at 32625 Seven Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 10
subject to the following conditions:
1) That the landscaped greenbelt along the south property line, as shown on
the landscape plan marked Sheet 1 received by the Planning Commission
on November 5, 1999, shall be substituted for the protective wall required
by Section 18.45 of the Zoning Ordinance;
2) That any changes to this area shall require Planning Commission review
and approval.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Alanskas: Mark, I know the Council has concerns about these permanent waiver walls and
I know we are looking possibly into changing our ordinance through the Law
Department. What are we talking time wise to do that? Is it six months down
the road, five months?
Mr. Taormina: It has been referred to Committee and I believe it will be at that time that we
will present on our recommended language amendment and that would be
referred back to the Planning Commission for consideration. The change to the
ordinance in effect will add teeth to the ordinance addressing the maintenance
of the greenbelts and a statement if there is failure to maintain them that the City
can then go back and require the installation of the protective wall.
Mr. Alanskas: I know you have a landscape firm that takes care of your property.
Ms. Taylor: Yes we do.
Mr. Alanskas: All right, thank you very much Mark.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #8 MOTION TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING (Former Fire Station)
Mr. Piercecchi, Acting Secretary announced the next item on the agenda is Motion to hold a
Public Hearing pursuant to Council Resolution#673-99 on the question of
whether certain property located on the west side of Farmington Road north of
Seven Mile Road (the former Fire Station No. 3 site and the adjacent residential
parcel to the South), in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 4, should be rezoned from
PL and RUF to a more appropriate zoning classification.
Mr. McCann: This is for whether or not we should hold a hearing. This is the vacant fire
station. Is there a motion to hold a public hearing on that?
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On a motion by Mr. Alanskas , seconded by Mr. LaPine, and unanimously approved, it was
#11-198-99 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Section 23.01(a)
of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, as amended,
and Council Resolution#673-99 does hereby establish and order that a public
hearing be held to determine whether certain property located on the west side
of Farmington Road north of Seven Mile Road (the former Fire Station No. 3
site and the adjacent residential parcel to the South), in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 4, should be rezoned from PL and RUF to OS.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
ITEM #9 APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Hale, Secretary, announced the last item on the agenda is the Approval of the Minutes of
the 793rd Regular Meeting held by the City Planning Commission on October 5,
1999.
On a motion duly made by Mr. Piercecchi, seconded by Mr. LaPine and unanimously approved,
it was
#11-199-99 RESOLVED that, the Minutes of the 793rd Regular Meeting held by the City
Planning Commission on October 5, 1999 are approved.
r..
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted the 795th Regular Meeting held on
November 9, 1999, was adjourned at 9:56 P.M.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
�` Dan Pierc cchi, Acting Secretary
ATTEST: l �>
?Ames C. cCann, Chairman