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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2013-02-26MINUTES OF THE 1,036rH PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, Febmary 26, 2013, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 1,036' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members present: Scott P. Bahr R. Lee Morrow Lynda L. Scheel Carol A. Smiley Gerald Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: Ashley V. Krueger Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2013-01-02-02 COSTCO Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2013-01- 02-02 submitted by Costco Wholesale Corporation requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(r) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SOD liquor license (sale of packaged spirits over 21% alcohol) in connection with a Costco store at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile and Eight Mile Roads in the Northwest 114 of Section 6. February26, 2013 25583 Mr. Taormina: This is a request to utlize an SDD liquor license, a Specialty Designated Distributor license, which would allow Costco to sell packaged spirts over 21% alcohol. The property is located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile and Eight Mile Roads. This is a site that contains a store that is about 130,000 square feel in area. The zoning of the property is C-2, General Business. A little bit about the history of Coslm's requests involving liquor licenses at this facility. It was in 1997 when Costco first petitioned the City for waiver use approval to utilize both an SDD as well as an SDM license at this location. The SDD would allow for the sale of packaged liquor and spirits, while the SDM, Specialty Designated Merchants license, would allow for the sale of packaged beer and wine products only. The City approved the SDM license only and denied the SDD license. Then in 2003, Costco again petitioned the City for waiver use approval to utilize an SDD license at this location, and the City again denied the request. On appeal to the Wayne County Circuit Court, the City Council's decision was reversed, but then the City appealed that decision and on September 14, 2006, the Michigan Court of Appeals reinstated the Cilys decision to deny the SDD license. With respect to the requirements under Section 11.03(r), there are a couple special requirements. One is that any proposed SDD licensed business cannot be located within 1,000 feel of any existing SDD licensed establishment. In this particular case, there are no other SDD licensed businesses within 1,000 feel of the subject store. The closest existing SDD licensed business would be a Meijer store which is located on the west side of Haggerty Road in Northville Township at a distance of about 1,700 feet as measured between the buildings, which is the standard that we use for determining compliance under that section. There is another requirement that any proposed SDD licensed business not be located within 400 feel of any church or school. Again, Costco does comply with this requirement. Another special requirement of the ordinance is that all liquor products allowed to be sold be displayed behind a counter with no direct public access. The petitioner has indicated their first choice is to have the City waive this requirement, and that would require a special resolution approved by at least a two-thirds majority of the City Council. In a letter that I believe the petitioner will elaborate on this evening, they do indicate that they are willing to comply with that restriction if necessary. This map shows you the location distribution of SDD licensed businesses within the community. Slate law does limit the number of SDD licenses based on the community's total population. In the case of Livonia, that limit is 34. Currently, we have 31 active SDD-licensed businesses and 3 inactive licenses which are being held in escrow. All the active licenses are shown in green on the map. The three February 26, 2013 25584 escrowed licenses are identified in yellow. Actually, two are identified in yellow and then I have another one located here which is probably very difficult to distinguish on this map, but it's a combination of green and yellow. I did that only to show that while this license is inactive and being held in escrow, it will soon be reverted to an active license once the construction of the store is complete. The other two include the former CVS drug store at Burton Center Plaza on Farmington Road just north of Six Mile and the former Livonia Drug Store on Five Mile just west of Farmington Road. We believe that Costco has secured an interest in the old Livonia Drug Store license and that if they are approved, they will transfer it to their Haggerty store. The most recent change involving an SDD license was the transfer of a license from the former Rite Aid Pharmacy at Ann Arbor Road and Ann Arbor Trail to the Rite Aid Pharmacy at Eight Mile and Newburgh Roads. And just to generally show you how that transfer took place, the site I'm referring to is located in the southwest comer of the community. We recently approved a new license located at Eight Mile and Newburgh for an existing Rite Aid pharmacy. As you can see, its in relative close proximity to the Costco store. In fact, there are two licenses located within a one mile radius of the Costco store. That includes the Rile Aid, as I just mentioned, as well as an independent party store called the Brass Mug that is located on the northwest comer of Seven Mile and Newburgh Roads. With that Mr. Chairman, I'll be happy to read out the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Please Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first dem is from the Engineering Division, dated February 6, 2013, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced waiver use approval request. The written legal description is cronect. The address for this site is confirmed to be 20000 Haggerty Road." The letter is signed by Todd Zilincik, City Engineer. The second letter is from the Division of Police, dated September 2013, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Costco - SDD License, located at 20000 Haggerty Road (east side of Haggerty between Seven and Eight Mile Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6). After reviewing the plans with the Chief of Police, we have no objection to the waiver being granted, contingent that the petitioner complies with approvals granted to other SDD licensed establishments, whereas liquor displayed for sale must be behind a counter with no direct public access The establishment would be required to supply a qualified employee, at least 18 years of age, to distribute the product to customers. We are available to provide February26, 2013 25585 any additional information you may desire on this subject." The letter is signed by Jeffrey W. Ronayne, Special Service Bureau. The third letter is from the Inspection Department, dated February 14, 2013, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the departmental correspondence. We do have correspondence from Sullivan, Ward, Asher & Patton, P.C., the petitioner in this case, but rather than read that, I think their representative, Seth Tompkins, is here this evening and he will summarize the contents of the letter. Mr. Morrow: I will ask him too if there is anything that was in the letter that wasn't brought out in your presentation. We'll have him add to it. Are there any questions for the Planning Director before I go to the petitioner? Seeing no one, is the petitioner present? We'll need your name and address for the record. Seth P. Thompkins, Esq., Sullivan, Ward, Asher & Patton, P.C., 25800 Northwestern Highway, Suite 1000, Southfield, MI 48075. We have been asked by Costco to represent them in this matter. I don't have any prepared presentation. I was really here to rehash the letter that I submitted. I hope you had an opportunity to read it. If not, I will go into it more deeply. When I wrote the letter, I was not aware that the liquor license had transferred to the Rite Aid. So the last time I went into that Rite Aid, there was no liquor in it. I assumed that the Brass Mug was the closest one. It was an inadvertent misstatement when I said the Brass Mug was the closest one. The Rite Aid is the closest one. I still would like to point out that it's over a mile away driving and you have to cross a freeway, so I dont think the distance is really an issue. Costco has asked for this on two prior occasions and was denied. I think that there were a couple reasons why they were denied and they were staled on the record. The first one was that they made this request in conjunction with the request for an SDD license at their Middlebell store, which has a lot more neighborhoods and also has a lot more local liquor stores that are actually in the area. So I think that there was more general opposition to having an SDD license at that location, and it made it easy for the City Council to simply state that it didn't comply with Section 19.06(1)a and said that it was not proper for the orderly development of the neighborhood. I think that because of the lean to vote no on the Middlebelt location, I believe that the Haggerty location got lumped into that and it was summarily denied. In fact, if you look at the record, there was a long extensive conversation about the Middlebell location and a very, very short conversation about the Haggerty location. February26, 2013 25586 So I think that may have happened 10 years ago when we asked for this last time. This neighborhood consists entirely of commercial establishments and light industry. The closest actual neighborhood, you have to go on the other side of the freeway to gel lo. It's well past 500 feet. I mean there's another neighborhood across the street in Northville, but as far as Livonia neighborhoods, there is really no neighborhood in this area. This is the famed Haggerty corridor. Everyone knows about this place. This is where you come for retail shopping or a commercial venture or if you have some light industrial. Theyve got space there to rent also. So as far as meeting the neighborhood requirements, this is in line with this neighborhood. This is a commercial establishment. We're really not infringing upon any residents as far as the liquor license is concerned. And again, with respect to whether or not there are any liquor stores that are close by, the nearest one is that Rite Aid which is over a mile away driving, and the second nearest one is the Brass Mug, which is over two miles away driving. So it's not as if there is a high concentration of liquor establishments at this particular location either, which would say, well, maybe another liquor store al this location is not good for the neighborhood. If you look at 19.06 and the factors that this Planning Commission is supposed to look at in determining whether or not to grant a request or deny a request, (b) through 0), we seem to either meet all those requirements or they don't apply. The only question really as far as the factors that this body should be looking at, at least as codified under the statute, under the ordinance, is whether or not this is appropriate for the orderly development of the surrounding neighborhood. And as I staled, the neighborhood itself, there is nothing in this neighborhood which would prevent another SDD license from going into this location. So I guess with respect to that, the question is, has Costco been a good neighbor, commercial neighbor to the City and to the surrounding community? And I think that it has been. It's been a very responsible operator of its SDM liquor license, which it has had since it opened its doors in 1998. It's had one violation for selling to a minor since 1998 and that was 11 or 12 years ago. Theyve got a fantastic violation history and they run a pretty fight ship there as far as making sure they comply with city ordinances and Michigan law when it comes to alcohol safety, alcohol training, alcohol management, alcohol distribution. So I think that as far as taking care of its neighbors, Costco has shown that it's done that. In its budget every year, it does donate. I'm not sure what the exact amount is, but I believe it's not a tremendous amount but it is a significant amount of money that it donates to nonprofit organizations and other people that apply for these types of things in the neighborhood, both locally and in the February26, 2013 25587 surrounding neighborhoods. I think that because of the fad that there's nothing ... there's no one to really object to putting this type of liquor license at this particular store at this particular location. The reasons why there was a potential rejection the Iasi lime or even the first time they asked, they don't really exist at this location. I think that with their history and with this particular request looking at only this store, it's a lot easier to say yes this time than it was len years ago. There's that. The second reason that was given, as staled on the record, and this is by City Council. It wasn't staled by this body, was there was a fear that giving an SDD license to a big box store would somehow be detrimental to smaller liquor stores in the city. I disagree with that. Costco is a different kind of store. For example, and I dont know if any of you drink. I'm not going to assume it, but I like to have a cordial called Benedictine brandy from time to time. You can't get things like that at Costco. What you can get at Costco are gigantic bottles of one or two brands of a couple types of spirits. They are not your local liquor store. They will never replace the local liquor store. The local liquor store is always going to be needed for people who want to gel what they like and not necessarily buy for a party. Now that's not to say that its not good to have a gigantic bottle of vodka sitting at home and if you want one, you know where to gel one readily. It's great because you can buy three dozen socks at the same time while you do it. But you're still going to want to go maybe and get something else and you're not going to be able to get that at Costco. This is kind of niche for Costco. They don't have a gigantic liquor counter. They have an aisle with a couple bottles of vodka that you can buy, a couple bottles of tequila you might be able to buy, a couple bottles of whiskey, a couple bottles of scotch, and they don't have nearly the selection that a lot of local liquor stores have. They are not really competing with those stores. They never have. They don't do it in their other locations either. The real competition between them and the smaller stores is actually for beer and wine, which the City doesn't seem to have a problem with. Theyve got plenty of beer and wine sales, and there doesn't seem to be that same type of protectionism for the beer and wine shops. To be honest, Costco sells meat also. There's not that type of protectionism for local butcher stores, or there's not that type of protectionism for local clothing stores, even though Costco sells clothing also. So to me, it was odd that this was an issue at all because in actuality, when you prevent big box stores from being able to purchase a liquor license, al the end of the day, you're actually hurting the smaller liquor store owners because they're not going to own those liquor stores forever. Eventually, they're going to want to sell them and they're going to want to sell that license. When you narrow the universe of February26, 2013 25588 potential buyers for a liquor license, what you actually do is deflate the price of that because its a valuable resource that a lot of individuals ... if you say we only want families to operate this, that family is going to have to come to the table with a tremendous amount of money to buy that liquor license in order to compete with something that a Meijer's could do or a Costco could do or a Kroger could do if they were given the opportunity to do that. I'm not saying that it's not ... you know, this is a broader opinion of mine. Its just something to think about. It probably doesn't even apply to this particular store, this particular location, again, because there's no ... I wouldn't say Rile Aid is a family owned liquor store. It's another corporation that probably has just as much if not more money than Costco does. So really, the only family run liquor store is the Brass Mug. Its over two miles away, and I don't think that there would be any impact on that particular store by allowing Costco to have spirits at this location. The second issue really isn't an issue for this body because it's something that the City Council has to vole on. Issue number one was whether or not to allow Costco to have the liquor license to begin with. The second one has to do with the counter rule that has been enacted that stales that sellers of spirits must do it behind a counter with no direct access, and there have been waivers or there are others or people have been grandfathered in. I know that, for example, the Brass Mug, you can buy liquor off the shelf, lake it to the front. So we are asking for a separate waiver of thaljust based upon Costco's track record with their other stores, their lack of shrinkage. People don't really steal from Costco. I put a statistic in here. For every thousand dollars worth of beer and wine inventory that was sold last year, about a penny was stolen. They've got a pretty good track record. They can comply with the rule if the City decides it doesn't want to waive that second request. The way they sell cigarettes right now is, it's in a cage. You lake a tag to the person at the front. They do it with their high end electronics. They do it with their jewelry loo. Its all caged up. If you want something, you grab a tag; you bring it down to the register; they bring out what you want. That's how they would deal with that so there's always someone who was at least 18 years of old. They would be trained in alcohol management and would be able to distribute the alcohol if that second request wasn't adopted as well. I was quick but I think I covered all the bases. I'd like to answer any questions you have. I don't know if I have all the answers, but I'll try my best. Mr. Morrow: We'll see if the Commission has any questions. Mark, you can correct me, but I think I'm right, as it relates to why other liquor stores have the bottles not behind the counter. Its because February26, 2013 25589 that's their primary use. In other words, in your particular case, liquor would be a secondary use. Is that correct, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Its based on the gross receipts of the liquor sales versus . . Mr. Morrow: Yeah, where ... Mr. Taormina: Where 35% or more is liquor or alcohol sales, they're allowed to have those items displayed. Mr. Morrow: I wanted to clear that up. Now I think we might have some questions. Ms. Smiley: There is no discount on the liquor. I mean that's kind of the premise of Costco. Mr. Tompkins: No, there is no discount. The State mandates a minimum price that must be set and, in fact, virtually every store in the Metropolitan Detroit area that you go to will say "Stale minimum," and it literally means the State minimum. There is a minimum markup that is permitted and it's 17 percent over wholesale, I believe, somewhere around there, and everyone does that across the board. It doesn't matter whether or not you're going to the Meijer's across the street or you go to this Costco, if you bought that same half gallon of vodka, it costs the exactsame. Ms. Smiley: Okay, that's usually the premise of Costco. You get it at a better deal because ifs at Costco. Mr. Thompkins: Some things you get at a better deal. Some things you just get at the minimum price that you can get. If you cant get a better deal than what everyone else sells it, you gel it at the same price. You can't get a better deal on spirits. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Mr. Thompkins: But I bet if you could, Costco would do it, but they're not allowed to. Ms. Smiley: I know they do in other stales. I do have one more question. You know how they give that annual rebate? Mr. Thompkins: Yes. Ms. Smiley: Is the liquor included on that? February26, 2013 25590 Mr. Thompkins: I know this was a question last lime, and I don't think it is. I don't think legally they can do it. Theyre pretty anal about following liquor control rules. So there is a way. They know exactly how much of what theyre selling because they track everything by the UPC. So l dont think that your beer and wine sales are included in it, and I don't think that your spirits, and I don't have the literature with me, but I bel if you read it, it would actually tell you. So I would be very surprised if they actually included that in the money back that you gel at the end of the year. What I'll do if this becomes an issue for the City Council because it's a good question, I will gel a representative of Costco to actually send me a letter. They're located in Washington state. The chance of them flying out here to answers questions are miniscule, but that's a good question. I did actually think of that, but I can't imagine they would do that because my partner has been their lawyer since 1998. He used to be an attorney general that worked for the State, the Liquor Control Commission. So I'm sure when they set this up that this was not part of the deal. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: I think I can answer that because I shop at Costco quite a bit and buy wine there. You're right. You don't get a rebate on wine. I don't know about beer, but wine you do not get a rebate on. Mr. Tompkins: Okay. I thought so. Mr. Taylor: Times change and everything that goes on in the City is different from now and again. Many years ago, we were very jealous about who we gave liquor licenses to. And liquor licenses, SDD licenses, are predicated, as you know, on population. Al that time, a few years ago, why we had quite a few different liquor licenses, SDDs. One of the problems that Council had at the time was the fact that every other grocery store is going to want to have liquor in it. Well, now we're down to possibly one license left if this goes through. I think the way times are changing and you know, Costco, as you staled in your letter, have 12 Coslco's in Michigan. Ten of them have liquor licenses. Two dont, and that's the two in Livonia. I dont know whether this Commission or the Council will allow you to have SDD, but I think it's time, whether its behind a counter or not, because Costco is a well taxpaying resident and has been for a good many years now. Like I say, shopping has changed. You look next door and Target now has about a quarter of their store they're taking out because theyre going to start carrying groceries now. So people like to go and have one stop February26, 2013 25591 shopping, the way I feel about it. And if they can go in there and pick up all of their food and maybe a bottle of liquor if they happen to be of that persuasion to do that, I think its available for what they should be able to do. The biggest question I think I have is whether it's behind the counter or not, and I know I've been through the store on Haggerty, and you staled that definitely that you do not want to put it, and that's on the record now, on Middlebell. You don't want that store. Mr. Thompkins: Correct. We're not asking for that. Mr. Taylor: And that was one of the biggest arguments that we had, as you staled, in court, that the area was well served in that area. In this area, as you pointed out, is not through Livonia well served. I just feel it's time that the Council and this Planning Commission does one thing or the other. I have no problem with it being on the counter, but if the vole comes down to push or shove, and you say you will put it behind a cage like you do your cigarettes, and I've seen that, what they do, and I think you do the same thing with show passes and those types of things. I dont know exactly how you would do it in that store or where, but I think its time that we change and help Costco out and help the citizens out to be able to go in and do one slop shopping. Thank you. Mr. Bahr: I had a question but it pretty much got answered by Mr. Taylor, so I'll just state for the record that the issue for me is the counter rule. I know there's some question for what the reasons for that is, and without going into detail, I'll just say just from people that are close to me that have struggled with issues around this, there is good reason for that counter rule. So that is an issue to me and I'll just make that statement because I was going to ask you to just confine what you had said, that you guys could comply with the counter rule. Mr. Thompkins: Yes, we could do d. I spoke to someone from headquarters and they said we're still going to ask for it. I understand what you're saying. And yeah, there are issues. If you had a problem and it was easy to sneak a half pint of something in your pocket and walk out with it, yeah, I could really understand that. But have you been to the Costco in Commerce Township? Mr. Bahr: Not that particular one, no. Mr. Thompkins: They only sell half gallon bottles. I believe that's the concern that you're alluding to, potentially shoplifting alcohol because you have a problem? Mr. Thompkins: The bigger sellers February26, 2013 25592 Mr. Bahr: Absolutely. Mr. Thompkins: Its virtually impossible. You have to be gigantic in order to put one of these in your pocket or have a big overcoat. Mr. Bahr: I gel that, and I'll also stale for the record, I have great respect for Costco and the professionalism of their operation. There are no concerns there, just the counter rule is the issue. So if I were to support this, that would have to be a part of it. So if you can comply with that ... Mr. Thompkins: If that was the way that the Council went down and said we didn't gel it, then of course we would probably still take the license and open up with a cage. They'd either put their inventory in their existing cage system that they have or theyd build something out. Mr. Wilshaw: I did go to the Costco store in Commerce, and I do want to take exception at one point that you made, which is that the liquor sales at the Commerce store consist of 38 different varieties of liquor. Twenty of them were fifths in size; 18 of them were half - gallon size. So over half the liquor sales are actually in the fifth size. Mr. Thompkins: Okay. Again, it's a size that you can't fid in a pocket. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Yeah. Not a hip flask or something. But still, the concept that Costco is selling barrels of vodka is not necessarily true. Theyre selling in standard sizes of alcohol containers. They have some that are larger and then some that are standard size, if you want to call them that. Also, we talk about how this impacts other businesses. Your letter is correct in that a liquor store certainly provides a variety of options available. You mentioned that you have a particular unique brand that you're looking for so you're going to go to a store that can get that for you. What I saw at Costco, again this is just more for the edification of anyone here who hasn't been at a Costco and looked at how they do liquor sales, the 38 brands that were there were the 38 most common brands of liquor that I think anybody would look to buy. I would venture to say that probably 90 percent of someone's needs are served by those 38 brands. I don't want to sit there and advertise for certain brands, but your Jack Daniels and your Makers Mark and all the brands you would expect to see were there. Mr. Thompkins: The bigger sellers February26, 2013 25593 Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly, the top sellers. So that's going to cover, even though it's not a huge number of brands, it really is going to cover the needs of 90 percent of the alcohol shoppers, I would say. The number of people that are coming in looking for an obscure brand of South American tequila or something, you know is probably fairly miniscule anyway, and they would go to a specialty store to get that perhaps. But if someone needs some tequila, mm, whiskey, whatever, they have it, and it's going to be a name that's typically a lop shelf common name. Certainly, Costco is meeting the needs of most liquor buyers, I would say, even with a handful of brands. But my question for you is, what percentage of sales do you think liquor would represent at this Costco, just rough numbers based on what you're aware of? Mr. Thompkins: I don't know what their total number of sales is. I'm not privy to that. I can guess that it's probably upwards of $20 million a year, maybe more, that they do in sales. I know that they probably do about $4 million, because I asked this question, in beer and wine sales, and I know that looking at the Michigan Liquor Control web site, that they do about $1 million in liquor sales a year. So it's not going to, I mean its not like all of a sudden they're going to be selling $10 million of liquor there. It's a convenience item. They have it at most of their other locations throughout the country that they have it in, and like Mr. Taylor said, in len stores in Michigan they have it also. And while it's a significant portion of sales, it's not statistically significant. They probably will do more selling tires next year than they do selling liquor next year, but it's still a good chunk of money. So it's something that they'd like to offer to their customers. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. That's kind of where I was thinking in my mind as I thought about the numbers. I don't know if the Haggerty locafion is the busiest or best producing one in the State for Costco, but it sure seems like it. Mr. Thompkins: Its very popular. Mr. Wilshaw: Its a great destination Mr. Thompkins: Yeah. You'll be able to get gas there soon. Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly. So it is a good store. It's well run. But the reality is that I would assume liquor sales, if it's permitted, would be a very small percentage of the overall sales of that store. I don't think it's going to be the main draw for Costco, clearly. However, if you think about $1 million in sales, say it is roughly $1 million in sales for liquor at Costco, that's about the same amount that a February26, 2013 25594 lot of mom and pop liquor shops throughout the City make on an annual basis when you look at the Liquor Control web site. Some don't even make that volume of sales. So the reality is that Costco is a very, very big entity and it's a high volume, high dollar store that even if its a fraction of the sales of what Costco produces at this location, its enough to be directly competitive and even more so competitive in liquor sales than a dedicated liquor store in the community. So just something to think about as you kind of think about the numbers and how this all works. Mr. Thompkins: I understand what you're saying if it was a zero sum game and you assumed that every single person who went to that Costco to buy liquor was going to go somewhere in Livonia and buy liquor, which they're not because as much as the City of Livonia loves its Costco, probably only a fraction of the customers who actually go and visit that Costco are from the City of Livonia. So in the meanfime, while you have this City of Livonia store that won't be able to sell liquor, right across the street you have Meijers, another big box store that does sell liquor. That's what I mean. You're saying okay, theyre going to do $1 million sales so theyre going to lake $1 million away from our liquor stores, our family run liquor stores. That's not true. The most sales that will probably be impacted are going to be that Meijer's across the street, and that's why I say, that's really our competition. And I understand what you're saying. If we were in a closed bubble and there were only so many stores that you could go and we have this population that we're dealing with, great, and if it were only these stores that we're dealing with, but Livonia is dealing with competition from stores right across the border, and theyre allowing their big box stores to compete with your big box stores and their taxpayers are getting the benefits of being able to sell to the customers in this area while your big box store isn't. So again, if it's a question of whether or not the city is served by its current existing vendors, maybe, but this particular area is not served by a vendor from Livonia, and the one that's there, I mean that's what you should be thinking about. That Meijer's is already laking plenty of business. Meijers sells more liquor than Costco does and you can verify this by going on their web site. So the question isn't, who does Costco take the business from? Does it take it from the Rile Aid a mile away? You've been to a Rite Aid. Their liquor shop is small. Are they taking it from the Brass Mug two miles away? Probably not. They're going to be taking the business away from Meijers across the street, and that's really why I think that this location ... you really have to focus on this location. You were talking about the Middlebelt location. You said, look, you have three other liquor stores. The only reason we're even considering this is because of the four lane exception to the half February26, 2013 25595 mile rule. I can understand. A Costco might be direly competing against those three stores. This is an isolated store in a portion of the city that has been dedicated toward commercial venues. So I understand what you're saying. I just disagree with the analogy with respect to this store. Mr. Wilshaw: I understand that. That's fine. There's a counter argument to everything that I'm going to say and you certainly have a good one. If I was to give you another argument ... Mr. Thompkins: We're discussing also. We're not arguing. Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly. If I was to give you another point, it would be that certainly Costco's far more capable and has far more dollars to be able to purchase a liquor license than an independent store. You talk about how we're essentially devaluing liquor licenses by denying them to operators like Costco. The reality is if you give a liquor license to an operator like Costco, it will never go on the market again. Costco is not going to go out of business. I certainly hope it's not. Where at least small mom and pop liquor shops do periodically sell and change hands. There's an active market there for these small stores. So its just another point. Mr. Thompkins: Arbor Drugs was a big store also, and they went out of business and all their liquor stores went on the market. Mr. Wilshaw: For the sake of your client, I hope they don't. Mr. Thompkins: Great Scott, another large chain. They went out of business and all their liquor licenses went on the market also. It happens. I hope it doesn't happen either, but I understand what you're saying. Mr. Taormina: Most of the Arbor Drug Store liquor licenses were transferred to CVS. Most of the others were transferred too. Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly. Ms. Smiley: One more question. You don't have to be a member of Costco to buy alcohol. Mr. Thompkins: Yes. That's by stale law, and it is posted at the front of all doors. If you want to buy alcohol at any Costco in the Slate of Michigan, you dont have to be a member to go in and buy. You don't have to show your membership card. All you have to do is show that you're 21 years of age. February26, 2013 25596 Ms. Smiley: So that's liquor, beer and wine? Mr. Thompkins: Liquor, beer and wine. You can go in there right now without a membership and buy wine. They have a great selection. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else from the Commission. Mr. Wilshaw: Just a quick follow up. I'm just curious. How does that work? They have sort of very militant people check at the door to make sure you have a membership. Mr. Thompkins: You just say, I'm here to buy liquor. I'm here to buy wine. Mr. Wilshaw: And they just say, come on in and wander around? Mr. Thompkins: Yeah. Because if you buy something off the shelf other than that, you'll need a membership card, but for beer and wine and liquor, no. Under the liquor control code, any place that sells alcohol is a place of public accommodation and you have to allow anybody in, and they're all trained on that. They know it, and before I was a member of Costco, I went and bought wine. Then I had kids and I thought buying diapers in bulk was a good idea. Mr. Wilshaw: So what's the point of even checking for the membership card then? Mr. Thompkins: Well, they don't want everyone .. I think they don't want people going in ... Yes, if you were unscrupulous, you could say that you wanted to do something and then go in and price check everything and then go back to Sam's Club or something. But I think that is what it's for, to prevent competitors from coming in and price checking them, but there are ways to gel around everything. Mr. Wilshaw: I was just curious. Thanks. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else? That was a very good presentation. If you'll step aside a moment, I'm going to see if there is anyone in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the gmntng of this petition. I see no one coming forward. I'm going to ask for a motion On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Scheel, it was RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on February 26, 2013, on Petition 2013-01-02-02 submitted by Costco Wholesale February26, 2013 25597 Corporation requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(r) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SDD liquor license (sale of packaged spirts over 21% alcohol) in connection with a Costco store at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile and Eight Mile Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2013-01-02-02 be approved subject to compliance with all of the special waiver use requirements as set forth in Section 11.03(r) of the Zoning Ordinance, including the requirement that all alcoholic liquor shall be displayed behind a counter with no direct public access for a qualified employee at least eighteen (18) years of age to distribute to the customer for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use of an SDD liquor license at this location complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed SDD liquor license; 3. That the proposed SDD liquor license is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area; and 4. That the granting of this petition will not increase the number of SDD liquor licenses in the City of Livonia. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor, Scheel, Bahr NAYS: Smiley, Wilshaw, Morrow ABSENT: Krueger ABSTAIN: None Ms. Scheel: We have a lie. That means the motion fails. Mr. Morrow: I could entertain another motion. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Smiley, it was February26, 2013 25598 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on February 26, 2013, on Petition 2013-01-02-02 submitted by Costco Wholesale Corporation requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(r) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SDD liquor license (sale of packaged spirts over 21% alcohol) in connection with a Costco store at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile and Eight Mile Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2013-01-02-02 be denied for the following reasons: 1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed use is in compliance with all of the general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the proposal is not in compliance with the regulations set forth in subparagraph (4) under paragraph (r) of Section 11.03 of the Zoning Ordinance, which require that all alcoholic liquor products allowed to be sold in connection with the use of an SDD license shall be displayed behind a counter with no direct public access; 3. That the City is currently well served with SDD licensed establishments; 4. That there is no demonstrated need for additional SDD licensed facilities in this area of the City; and 5. That the proposed use is incompatible to and not in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Mr. Bahr: Just one comment. I certainly appreciate the different views that we have up here, and I'm just going to express a personal opinion. I never like voting for these licenses, just personally, and I kind of alluded to it earlier. I don't like voting for these types of licenses, but I feel that my job and I feel that our job as a commission isn't to do what we like. Its to make sure that businesses in the City are complying with the law. I guess this is as much a comment on the Iasi resolution as this one to explain the way I'm voting on this. I feel that Costco is a very professional organization that has a strong track record, as strong as anybody that's going to have one of these licenses February26, 2013 25599 that is allotted to Livonia. If they are able to meet the requests that we make of them, including the counter rule, then based on the fact that they're meeting the law, then I don't have a problem with that. I just wanted to state that for the record. Mr. Morrow: Are there any other comments? I'm going to pass the gavel to my Vice Chairman. I just have one comment that I want to make. It comes from along the lines of how we find out where the closest liquor stores are to the new SDD license. I feel that Costco is more of a destination type of a location where people come from all over the city, and granted they come from other communities also. But because it is a big draw to the community, I feel it's going to impact the smaller liquor stores in the area, and I've always been kind of supportive of the smaller operations. In other words, the people that have a limited amount of things to offer to the public. So that's always been high in my priority, and I think that was probably the deciding factor in my vote as I voted last time. So that's all I wanted to say. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Mr. Morrow. Is there any other discussion? Seeing none, we'll have the Secretary call the roll. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Wilshaw, Smiley, Morrow NAYS: Bahr, Taylor, Scheel ABSENT: Krueger ABSTAIN: None Mr. Wilshaw: That would be a three -three split then? Ms. Scheel: That's correct. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That motion has failed as well. Is there any motion on the table at this time that anybody would like to offer? Mr. Morrow: Well, Mr. Chairman, we're at an impasse now, and of course we are one member short. Mr. Wilshaw: I think the proper course of action would be if we'd like to make a motion to table, we could go to the next meeting where we would have a full or at least a split body. Ms. Scheel: I'll offer a motion to table. Mr. Taormina: Is this to a date specific? ITEM #2 PETITION 2013-01-02-03 METRO CHEER Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2013- 01-02-03 submitted by Pemnella Harris requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 16.11(f) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate an athletic training facility (Metro Cheer and Dance) at 11889 Brookfield Avenue, located on the west side of Brookfield Avenue between Plymouth Road and Capital Avenue in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 27. Mr. Taormina: This is a request to operate an athletic training facility located within an M-1 light manufacturing zoning district. This property is located on the west side of Brookfield Avenue between Plymouth Road and Capital Avenue. All of the surrounding abutting properties are also zoned M-1 and contain various types of industrial manufacturing uses. The properly in question February26, 2013 25600 Ms. Scheel: The next available voting meeting. Mr. Wilshaw: The next regular meeting. Mr. Taormina: That's fine. That would be March 19 just so that it's clear to everyone. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously approved, it was #02-06-2013 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Heading having been held by the City Planning Commission on February 26, 2013, on Petition 2013-01-02-02 submitted by Costco Wholesale Corporation requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 11.03(r) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to utilize an SDD liquor license (sale of packaged spirits over 21% alcohol) in connection with a Costco store at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile and Eight Mile Roads in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6, which property is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby table this item until the next Regular Meeting of March 19, 2013. Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. I'll pass the gavel back to the Chairman. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Now you're aware of the date that was arrived at. Mr. Thompkins: Thankyou. ITEM #2 PETITION 2013-01-02-03 METRO CHEER Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2013- 01-02-03 submitted by Pemnella Harris requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 16.11(f) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate an athletic training facility (Metro Cheer and Dance) at 11889 Brookfield Avenue, located on the west side of Brookfield Avenue between Plymouth Road and Capital Avenue in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 27. Mr. Taormina: This is a request to operate an athletic training facility located within an M-1 light manufacturing zoning district. This property is located on the west side of Brookfield Avenue between Plymouth Road and Capital Avenue. All of the surrounding abutting properties are also zoned M-1 and contain various types of industrial manufacturing uses. The properly in question February26, 2013 25601 is just under one acre in size. It's 0.88 acres, and has 150 feet of frontage along Brookfield and a depth of 256 feel, for a total lot area of 38,400 square feet. There is an existing building on the property that measures 13,000 square feel in total size and is divided into two spaces. The abutting unit is occupied by a business called Hennig Machine Protection. The petitioner would propose to occupy the northerly half of the building. Hennig operates their business in the southerly portion of the building. They have about 6,500 square feel, the same amount of building space that the petitioner proposed to utilize. Athletic training schools and other indoor recreational uses are permitted in the M-1 District as a waiver use under Section 16.11(f) of the Zoning Ordinance. It was in 2002 that we amended the M-1 District regulations to include public or private indoor recreational facilities and athletic training schools that, because of the nature of the use or its unique characteristics, such as a requirement for higher ceilings, may be better suited or compatible in an industrial setting. The list of some of the uses that can be considered under this section include gymnastics training facilities, martial arts, cheedeading schools, soccer facilities, tennis, racquetball and handball courts, baseball and softball practice areas, as well as archery ranges. Such uses can be allowed provided that all parking and ingress and egress to the facility be designed so as not to interfere with industrial traffic in the area. The unit that Metro Cheer and Dance would occupy includes the north part of the building. There are drive aisles both to the north as well as on the south side of the building. So, on either side of the building there is a drive aisle leading from Brookfield Avenue to a parking area in the back of the building. You can see the smaller rectangular area up front on the drawing. This is an area of the building that includes a small office as well as lavatories and reception and waiting areas, whereas the larger area to the back is the open warehouse which would include all of the equipment including the tumbling mats as well as springboards, trampolines and those types of items associated with the cheer and dance school. In terms of parking, they are required to have one parking space for each employee plus sufficient off-street space for the safe and convenient loading and off-loading of students. Parking for this site includes 22 parking spaces. We're not sure how many of those spaces are occupied by the adjacent business, Hennig, but that would occur typically during the daytime hours; whereas this use would propose to operate mostly in the late afternoon and early evening hours. One of the questions to the building owner as well as the operator is to what extent the parking for this use does not overlap with the parking needs of the adjacent business. The petitioner believes that the number of spaces are adequate since many of the February26, 2013 25602 students are dropped off and picked up from this location. There are some issues related to the current upkeep of the parking area. Our inspections have revealed that there needs to be work done in the parking area to the back in terms of maintenance and possibly some removal and replacement of some of the concrete, as well as double striping of all of the parking spaces and providing adequate barrier free access both to the parking as well as within the building. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'll be happy to read out the items of correspondence. Mr. Morrow: That will be fine Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first dem is from the Engineering Division, dated February 6, 2013, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced waiver use approval request. The written legal description is correct. The address for this site is confirmed to be 11889 Brookfield Avenue. It appears that Metro Cheer and Danco will occupy the building and no site work is anticipated outside the building. Thus, no anticipated review would be required by the Engineering Department" The letter is signed by Todd Zilincik, Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 15, 2013, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the petition for a waiver use approval on the property at the above referenced address and have noted the following. (1) This proposal is a change of use for the address in question. This requires that the location must conform to current NFPA standards for New Assembly use. (2) Chapter 12, New Assemblies, and Chapter 7, Means of Egress, must be conformed to which includes Emergency Exit Signs, Emergency Lighting, Exit Pathways, Occupant Load, and Extinguisher Requirements. (3) Chapter 8, Fire Barriers, states that firewalls must be maintained and inspected to preserve their rating. This includes any door, window, or penetrations in this wall. We advise that no use of this facility be conducted prior to inspections and approval of any/all NFPA codes relating to New Assemblies. Providing that all details in regards to New Assembly Occupancy are followed and inspected prior to tenant use, this department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 6, 2013, which reads as follows: 7 have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. The only issue 1 am concerned about is adequate parking for this type of business." The letter is signed by John Gibbs, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated February 14, 2013, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced February 26, 2013 25603 petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The petitioner's proposal is a change in use. This would require that the proposed space must conform to all cument barrier free codes, building codes and all mechanical codes and standards. This includes but is not limited to the front entrance, restrooms, and aisle ways. This will be addressed further at time of plan review if this project moves forward. (2) Work has been done in this space without permits and inspections including the mechanical system. Permits, inspections and double fees will be required for work done without permits. (3) The rear exit door will require a landing to be installed on the exterior side per code. (4) The petitioner must provide required egress pathways and emergency egress lighting to code. (5) The parking lot in the rear of the building needs to be repaired or replaced. (6) All parking spaces are required to be a minimum of 10 feet by 20 feet and double striped. (7) Barrier free parking spaces must be provided and be property sized, signed and striped. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Are there any questions for the Planning Director? Seeing none, is the petitioner here tonight? We will need your name and address for the record please. Perella Harris, Metro Cheer and Dance, 14147 Salem, Redford, Michigan 48239. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything you would like to add to the presentation or anything you'd like to share with the Commission? Ms. Harris: Sure. Just to understand the business a little bit more. We have a cheedeading training facility and our hours of operations will be 5:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. because the kids go to school during the day. We cater to children ages 3 to 18. It's more kind of like a, compare it like to an AAU type cheerleading facility or gymnastics, similar to that. We have received letters from our neighbor in regards to the parking and sharing of the parking because their hours of operation goes from 7:00 a.m. until 4:30 p.m., and we wouldn't open until 5:30 p.m. We came from the City of Redford. I also have a letter from Tracey, the supervisor there. We just have a really good relationship with the City, and I plan to do the same with the City of Livonia if we are allowed to be within the City of Livonia. I have a couple letters of recommendation from her as well that I'd like to present. Mr. Morrow: Thankyou. February26, 2013 25604 Ms. Harris: As far as the issues of parking, we had a meeting with our parents. We emailed them and all those types of things so then that way we wouldn't in the future have any issues, but there was a slight little issue with that. So I just want to bring it up because I know it's going to be brought up. Since that time, we have met with all of our parents. We lel them know our rules and regulations of our company, and we have been around 15 years. This is nothing that is new for us. We've been around since 1995. And we lel them know because the way its, you don't really see it on the diagram there, but we have our neighbor and she has a huge parking lot and its very tempting just to kind of park in her parking lot and then come over to our building. But we let the parents and staff know that we have designated areas. I think there is like four or five spots in the front of the building and, as you indicated before, there's about 22 or so spots in the back of the building. Our classes are fairly small so there's up to maybe 10 students at a time that take a cheedeading or some type of tumbling or gymnastics class. When we did have that meeting, it was kind of for everyone, so that particular day it was overload, but typically it would not be like that. Are there any questions for me? Mr. Morrow: We'll soon find out. Do we have any questions of the petitioner? Mr. Wilshaw: Ms. Harris, just give me a sense of how your business operates. How many kids would you have there at any given time doing a class? Ms. Harris: We have a ratio of 1:10 per instructor at the most. We have myself. I have an office manager, and then we'll have one to two staff. So there's four staff at the most, three to four, and then no more than len kids at a time for a particular class. Class is every hour. So every hour it will change. So up to 30 or so students on one given night, but every hour there's a different class, if that makes sense. Mr. Wilshaw: Is it different students that come for each of those hour classes or would someone maybe come for a cheer class one hour and then a tumbling class the next hour and stay through that? Ms. Harris: Absolutely. Absolutely. Mr. Wilshaw: So you don't necessarily have a car and a parent coming in between those classes because they may drop them off for two or three hours. February26, 2013 25605 Ms. Harris: They may end up staying or there may be siblings, so they may stay so they don't have to drive because we have people that come from all over. So they may just stay in the building just to hang out or whatever until their students are done. Mr. Wilshaw: What percentage of your students have parents that stay through the whole class and watch? Ms. Harris: Oh, percentage. That's fairy small. Most just drop and go. High school students of course would drive themselves. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. I was just thinking, I go over to the Rec Center and there's a lot of parents that like to sit and watch their kids if they're doing gymnastic classes or other things there. Ms. Harris: Sure. Sure. Mr. Wilshaw: You said you've been in operation for 15 years. It sounds like you have a successful business going. What sort of things are you going to offer or have you been offering at this location? You said cheer, dance, tumbling. Do you have like a big pit with mats and sluff? Ms. Harris: We don't have a pit. Ours is more from a cheerleading perspective. We're very similar to Miss Peggys. They're in Livonia as well. They're more a gymnastics -type facility. We're a cheerleading training facility. So we teach the gymnastics part of it, but it's all floor. We have a 42 foot by 42 fool floor, and they tumble on that and we have a tumble track. So we don't have a pit or the beams and the bars and all that. Mr. Wilshaw: For you, what you're looking for at your facility is to have a nice big open space with tall ceilings so people can do the pyramids. Ms. Harris: Correct. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I see. Do you gel involved in any competitive cheer? Ms. Harris: Yes, we do. We're very involved with competitive cheerleading and hip hop dance, and we're very successful I must say. I don't normally talk about myself, but they do very, very well. We're really proud of them. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Would any of those competitions take place at your facility or are those off site? Ms. Harris: No, those are strictly off site. Our facility would just be for training use only. February26, 2013 25606 Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Good. I just wanted to get a feel for how your business operates. Thankyou. Ms. Smiley: To leach cheer, you must go to classes to do that or are you licensed to do that? Ms. Harris: You have to go through a certain certification each year. So every year I gel my staff certified through the United States All Star Federation, and in addition to that, I have them do CPR and first aid training. Ms. Smiley: Thankyou. Mr. Wilshaw: I'll ask one other question just because the issue was brought up and may continue to be brought up here as we get into audience discussion, but you did have some issues with cars parking on neighboring parking lots. You said in one of the letters that we received that you'd be not only talking to your parents to lel them know that they should only be parking on your facility, but you said you'd even be willing to share the cost of private parking signs or something like that or maybe "no cheer parking here,' however the proper wording should be on that property if that's necessary. Ms. Harris: And I did have a question about that. I don't know if this is the appropriate place to bring it up, but I know we're allowed certain signage and certain length of signage, but if we did that, would that be in addition? Mr. Wilshaw: No. Ms. Harris: Okay. Because I'm willing to do it, but I just wasn't sure if we could do our logo sign in addition to the additional parking in the rear or something to that effect. Mr. Wilshaw: You're afforded a certain amount of signage for your building, direction signs and parking signs. Things like that are totally separate. Ms. Harris: Okay. Mr. Morrow: Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the grenfing of this petition? I think we have in our audience tonight, as the Planning Director indicated, do we have the people from Turbine Tool & Gage, Inc. I think that was one of the questions that we had. Is there anything you want to February26, 2013 25607 offer to this Commission? I think we've been advised that things are working out pretty well so far. Audrey Mur0and, President & General Manager, Turbine Tool & Gage, Inc., 11901 Brookfield Avenue, Livonia, Michigan 49150. So far very well. Mr. Morrow: Good. Okay. And you are Audrey Murlland? Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, I'd just like to indicate that I did have a conversation with Mrs. Mur0and, the owner of the facility to the north, regarding the parking issues. She told me that the matters are much improved. If there are additional things that can be done, maybe that's something that Ms. Harris can work out with Mrs. Murtland in terms of signage. I dont know that we want to necessarily dictate that, but should Ms. Murtland find it necessary, then we can certainly work with them. Mr. Morrow: I think it will work out, but let the record show that it was Audrey Murtland, 11901 Brookfield Avenue, that indicated for the record that so far things are going well. That will be part of the record. Thank you. If there is nothing else, I'll ask for a motion. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Bahr, and unanimously adopted, it was #02-07-2013 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on February 26, 2013, on Petition 2013-01-02-03 submitted by Permella Harris requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 16.11(f) of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to operate an athletic training facility (Metro Cheer and Dance) at 11889 Brookfield Avenue, located on the west side of Brookfield Avenue between Plymouth Road and Capital Avenue in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 27, which property is zoned M-1, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2013-01-02-03 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated February 14, 2013, from the Assistant Director of Inspection, including those relating to the requirement that the entire facility and site must meet the current Stale of Michigan Barrier Free Code, shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and/or Engineering Department; 2. That adequate off-street parking shall be provided which shall be sufficient to comply with the parking requirement February26, 2013 25608 for employees and patrons as set forth in Section 18.38 (12) of the Zoning Ordinance; and 3. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject property has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw: Just a quick comment that I know Ms. Harris came to our city from another community and wasn't fully aware of all of the regulatory processes that we have here as far as approvals and permits and so on. She is now going through that process and appears to be complying with all requests that we've made so far. She seems to have a solid business that she is bringing to our community and a successful business. I wish her continued success. There was a small bump in the road with the neighboring property, and it sounds like from both parties that they're working together and that they're going to keep those issues at bay. I think thafs excellent good neighbors for each other and I think its good for our community. I wish Ms. Harris and her business much success. Ms. Harris: Thankyou. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. February26, 2013 25609 ITEM #3 PETITION 2013-01-02-04 SHEESH RESTAURANT Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2013- 02-02-04 submitted by Ahmad Ibrahim requesting waiver use approval pursuant to Section 19.06 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to expand the existing restaurant (Sheesh Restaurant) and add seating at 37240 Five Mile Road within the Century Plaza shopping center, located on the northeast corner of Five Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 17. Mr. Taormina: Century Plaza shopping center at the northeast comer of Five Mile and Newburgh Roads actually used to consist of a single commercial development. Today it consists of two buildings, a 19,000 square foot strip center divided into about seven tenant spaces and then a smaller free-standing 12,900 square foot CVS Pharmacy located at the corner of Newburgh and Five Mile Roads. The two buildings are separated by a distance of about 22 feel which is a driveway that serves the pharmacy's drive- lhm window. The zoning is G7, Local Business. Looking at the zoning map and the surrounding land uses in the area, immediately to the north is a dental office. Then there are condominiums a little bit further to the north, and single family homes make up the majority of the land area both to the east and northeast of this property. These are homes located within the County Homes Estate Subdivision. To the west across Newburgh Road are several commercial establishments in the C-2 zoned area, and then directly across Five Mile is land that is part of the Felician Sisters' property and the site of Ladywood High School and athletic facilities that are part of the college. The restaurant that we're considering this evening is at the east end of the shopping center. This was originally approved in 2003 as an Izzys Sub Shop. Al the time it was approved as a limited service restaurant, it was allowed to have a maximum of 30 customer seats. Sheesh now occupies the same unit that was previously occupied by Izzy's. Sheesh currently maintains 30 seats in compliance with the original waiver use approval. What they would like to do now is expand the restaurant into the adjacent vacant unit in order to increase the size of the restaurant and the amount of customer seating. This plan shows the before and after layout of the floor plan. The unit that they would occupy is a little over 1,100 square feet in total size. It was previously occupied by a hair salon. This area would now be incorporated as part of the restaurant. Where this is the existing restaurant layout, this is the expanded restaurant showing a total of 90 seats. So they propose to increase the February 26, 2013 25610 seating by roughly a total of 60 seats. All of these would be interior, and to staffs knowledge there is no plan for any outdoor seating at this time. Pursuant to the G7 District Regulations, they are limited to 30 seats. Approval to increase this to 90 will require that the special requirement be waived by the City Council by a separate resolution in which two thirds of the Council concurs. This has been done in the past, most recently with the Blue Plate Diner located on Seven Mile Road just east of Farmington Road, which is also located in the C-1 zoned area. It was approved to have sealing of about 50 or 56 seals. Prior to that, a similar action was taken with respect to Qdoba restaurant which is located at the comer of Six Mile and Newburgh Roads. That loo is zoned G7, and the sealing there was expanded from 30 to 70 or 72 seats. They are not proposing any exterior modifications to the building that we are aware of other than maybe an increase in the size of sign which they would be entitled to if they increase the lineal frontage of the store front. They would be allowed to go up to 40 square feet total from the current 20 square feet. With respect to parking, total parking required for this center is 171 and the overall site provides 210 spaces based on the requirement for one space for every 150 square feel of useable floor area. With that Mr. Chairman, I will read the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Please Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first dem is from the Engineering Division, dated February 7, 2013, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced waiver use approval request. The comectedlegal description is as follows: Part of OutlotA of Country Homes Estates No. 1, Town 1 South, Range 9 East, Liber 85, Pages 69-70, Wayne County Records, described as beginning at the southwest comer Outlot A, thence N 477.84 feet, thence E 343.41 feet, thence S 4045'11" E 117.32 feet, thence S 390.00 feet, thence N 8951'30" W 420.00 feet to the point of beginning. Containing 4.53 acres. The address for this site is confirmed to be 37240 Five Mile Road. We are providing the petitioner for informational purposes, a copy of Section 13.42 of the City Ordinances. This Ordinance limits the amount of Fats, Oils and Grease (F.O.G.) which can be discharged to the City sanitary sewer system to 100 milligrams per liter by weight, and provides information on grease interceptor requirements. The ordinance can also be viewed on our website at wwwci.livonia.mi.us under 'quick shortcuts' located on the right hand side of the screen, then click on 'online ordinances." The letter is signed by Todd Zilincik, Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue February26, 2013 25611 Division, dated February 13, 2013, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the plans for restaurant expansion on the property at the above referenced address. Based on the submitted site plan, Livonia Fire 8 Rescue does not have any issues as long as there are no deviations from this application, General Condition notes shall be followed, and appropriate permits and inspections adhered to." The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 12, 2013, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. 1 have no objections to the proposal." The letter is signed by John Gibbs, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated February 14, 2013, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The restaurant will need to meet all current Michigan Building Codes including the Michigan Barrier Free Code. This will be addressed further at the time of our plan review if this project moves forward. (2) The existing parking lot shall be repaired, sealed and re -striped as necessary. (3) Barrier free parking spaces are required to be property sized, signed and striped. (4) The petitioner shows 90 seats where only 30 seats are permitted. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Mark, I just want to make sure I understand what we have here. The illustration on the left is the before. Mr. Taormina: That is correct. Mr. Morrow: And the one on the right is the after. Mr. Taormina: Yes. The two are close together. Mr. Morrow: Theyre nolgoing to be integrated? Mr. Taormina: No. They are two different plans. You can see that they are separated only by this narrow white space. This is the layout as it currently exists for the restaurant. You'll see the area on the left hand side is empty. That demarcates the existing salon space. Moving to this side of the drawing, this is what the floor plan of the restaurant would look like with the inclusion of that same area. Counting all the seats here, there are about 90 and on this plan it's about 30 seats. Does that make sense? Mr. Morrow: Business must be good if you're going to triple the sealing. Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, sir. Its been real good and that's why we want to expand right now. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions of the petitioner? Mr. Taylor: I've been asked if you were ever involved with La Sheesh. Mr. Ibrahim: I was one of the employees. I used to work there. Mr. Taylor: That's what I thought I had heard. Mr. Ibrahim: I was one of the original people who started the concept 18 years ago, but when La Sheesh closed down, I came into the February26, 2013 25612 Mr. Morrow: Yes. I just wanted to make sure because they're going to move next door. I wanted to make sure that plan on the right showed after they moved. Mr. Taormina: Correct. It's a little difficult to read Mr. Morrow: With that, are there any other questions? Mr. Taylor: Just to clarify, Mark, they're taking the wall down in between then? Mr. Taormina: That wall is coming down. Yes. Mr. Taylor: Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for the staff? With that, we'll go to the petitioner. We will need your name and address for the record please. Ahmad Ibrahim, 20290 Whitlock, Dearborn, Michigan 48197. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Is there anything you would like to add to the presentation or any other comments? Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, sir. I would like to add that we've been at Sheesh for five years right now. Things have been good for us, but we always have the difficulty with limited seating. We can never accommodate as much people as would like to come to us. Most of our business right now depends on carryout. Since that place got vacant right next door from us, we would love to expand and stay for the next 10 - 15 years leasing in the City of Livonia. Mr. Morrow: Business must be good if you're going to triple the sealing. Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, sir. Its been real good and that's why we want to expand right now. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions of the petitioner? Mr. Taylor: I've been asked if you were ever involved with La Sheesh. Mr. Ibrahim: I was one of the employees. I used to work there. Mr. Taylor: That's what I thought I had heard. Mr. Ibrahim: I was one of the original people who started the concept 18 years ago, but when La Sheesh closed down, I came into the February26, 2013 25613 area which is Livonia. It was my favorite city because I used to manage Six and Newburgh when it used to be La Sheesh. The first five years I managed that one, but when La Sheesh collapsed and closed down, Livonia was my target. It was my best favorite town so I came in five years ago and started that concept. Things are very well right now, except that limited sealing. Mr. Taylor: You must have a lot of take-out because there are people coming and going all the time. Mr. Ibrahim: Forty percent of my business right now is carry -out just of the fad that most of our customers tell us we would like to come in but your limited seating. We can't accommodate a group of people, a party of len or party or any family event. We can't accommodate. We cant take any reservations for that kind of matter because ofthe limited seating. Mr. Taylor: Thankyou. Mr. Wilshaw: It sounds like what you're looking to do is, really a good portion of your business right now is carry -out and you're kind of looking to change your business model slightly to a more sit down restaurant where people experience your food there at the location, right? Mr. Ibrahim: That's true. My projection right now because customers telling us we're grabbing the carryout because we can't sit down. We can't come in and enjoy the seating. So my projection right now it might a little bit less on the carryout, more on the dine -in when people have the chance to come in and dine in, or they bring in family to be able to join in dinner instead of just grabbing the carryout, especially when they're in the mood for Middle Eastern. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. So the dining experience will be more like La Sheesh in the sense that you sit down. It's a full experience where you have the starters and everything, right? Mr. Ibrahim: Absolutely. That's why we have right now all this sluff, the hot bread and all this good stuff that we give to our guests. It's the same concept. I started the concept same. I even have some of my original people from La Sheesh, the chefs, all these people. I have them with me since I opened this restaurant. So we'll bring in same, what people missed about La Sheesh, which is the food. That's what we haven't had. This is my opportunity right now to expand to bring that extra sluff. February26, 2013 25614 Mr. Wilshaw: This seems like a great opportunity for you because you have the vacancy right next door. You can just kind of move right in there, grow your business. You've already clearly taken what you knew from the La Sheesh brand and you've made your own brand. You've made this your own business and it sounds like you're very successful at it. I've heard very good things about your food. I haven't been there to try it myself yet, but I will at some point. Mr. Ibrahim: Please do. Mr. Wilshaw: That's great. I like those kinds of success stories in our city. Congratulations. Mr. Ibrahim: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you kindly. Mr. Morrow: Anybody else? During the construction, will you be shut down or how are you going to manage that? Mr. Ibrahim: We have what we call a step plan. We're going to remodel next door. Then after we finish next door, we break the walls down, and some of that sluff that will be done overnight, but most of it before we break the wall down, will be done, the whole side. Overnight we will break the walls down and reopen with the addition. Mr. Morrow: Sounds like you have a plan. Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, sir, I do. I've been waiting for it. Mr. Morrow: Anything else? Mr. Taormina: First of all, just compliments to this restaurant operator and what he's done because this is a difficult space to make successful given its location. The product is very good at this store which is a testament to Mr. Ibrahim and how he operates his business. We're happy to see that. I hope he realizes that this is a zoning classification where he will not be able to carry any kind of a Class C liquor license. To the extent that you're going to make these improvements and extend your lease for another five years or ten years, you understand that this is not a location where you can seek a liquor license, which is something that La Sheesh previously had. Mr. Ibrahim: Right. But right now with our success, we can't put up beer and wine because it slows down our table turnover table because we're always busy. We're always in need for the seats. The February26, 2013 25615 beer and wine would slow us down because the turnover table would take longer. Mr. Taormina: Okay. Just as long as you understand because I didn't want you to overlook that and have some expectation that maybe you could follow up with a request for a beer and wine license, when in fad that is not allowed in this zoning classification. Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Good point, Mr. Taormina. Thank you. If there is nothing else, I'm going to go to the audience. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Timothy Gomj, 36966 Lancaster, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Thank you folks for allowing me to present my comments here tonight. I'm not normally a type of person to come down for these events. Directly to the east of the restaurant, there's a large lot right across from the cul-de-sac. I'm learning something here today that I didn't know prior to this takeover; it was a sub shop. My complaint is a quality of life issue that we have at this point with the exhaust from the chimneys out of the restaurant. We have rancid odors and smoke coming out from early in the morning to well after dinner time. There's a neighbor across the street that is in Florida now. I wish I could have contacted him. He and I discussed this on numerous occasions in the past, and it was his hearsay that he informed me that this issue was addressed with the building maintenance or the City engineers in the past. My concern is if Mr. Ibrahim increases his business by the proportion that he is, that's going to increase the amount of debits being spewed into the air through his chimney and cooking process. It's not pleasant at this point. Summertime when the clouds are low, it just hangs in. We park the cars, leave them out of the garage. We have a residue on the windows very quickly. Its just not healthy. Also, aside from that, is the noise, the dumpslers that clang and bang not during business hours, early in the morning after business hours. It's not diesel trucks coming in. It seems like they're depositing the debits from the restaurant well after hours. I just ask if you keep my request in mind and if you do allow Mr. Ibrahim to make these changes in his business, that you have him retrofit or insist that he retrofit his exhaust system in his business. I'm a new guy on the block. If I knew how bad it was prior to purchasing, I'd have never purchased the home, and I do believe if I do attempt to market, especially in this economic climate, it would impede me selling my house the way that exhaust is coming out of there now and it would definitely affect the sale price of the house. That's all I have to say, and I February26, 2013 25616 appreciate your time. Thank you very much. And I had a thought. Maybe the Planning Commission, I don't know the realm of your spectrum. Maybe you could find a full off site parcel for Mr. Ibrahim to develop his business. Since he's been doing so good, he can actually reinvest into the community and not just lease a parcel in a mall. That way the lax base in the city would really, really improve. Thank you. Tom Lipinski, 15523 Liverpool, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Good evening gentlemen and ladies. I live directly adjacent to the rear of the Sheesh restaurant. I've lived in Livonia for the past 15 years. I also work in the City, as well as my wife does. We moved into the City of Livonia not only for the obviously close proximity to our occupations, but also for the quality of life that we've been hearing about in the city. Its always been a pleasant city. A great city to mise a family in, right? Again, that was one of the biggest things that brought me here originally from the east side. At any rate, I do have a little prepared statement to go through with you guys and may have a few other things to add to it. I do agree with my neighbor that just mentioned about the constant smell and odor that does come from the cooking oils and such from the restaurant itself. It's constantly emitting out of there. Again, I do appreciate the fad that Sheesh restaurant is utilizing otherwise vacant properly. I don't like to see any vacant properly in the city, especially near my house, but I do have some concerns that I'd like to address. And the first couple of concerns that I have are probably more so with the property owner than with the tenant himself, but I do feel that they're very relevant to the main concern that I have, which is the noise, the odors and just again, the quality of life for myself and my family. I've been dealing with a street sweeper that arrives regularly during the summer months anywhere between 10:30 p.m. to 10:45 p.m. at night to start their process of cleaning up. They start out by using a gas powered blower which sounds to me like a chainsaw. I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with that but it's very loud and obnoxious and when you're in the backside of that building there, the way the buildings are formed there, the sound just emits and it just echoes. There's a brick wall that's right behind my property there and the sound just echoes immensely. In my house with my windows closed, I've got to either turn my TV up or go upstairs or downstairs to a different room. Literally, its that loud. In addition to that, once they walk the perimeter of both the wall and the building with that gas powered blower, they then come through with the sweeper truck. By this time its pushing 11:00 p.m. I know the ordinance is until 11:00 p.m. and that's a big concern of mine and this many not be the right venue to address that concern, but I'm going to anyhow. So, in addition, as the street sweeper February26, 2013 25617 comes through here, he's got his industrial vacuum cleaner, right, that's going, which is just as loud if not louder than the chainsaw blower that he's got. And he's got a beacon light. That pretty much turns my family room into a discotheque at night. I've got to shut my blinds, close the doors, close the windows. Sure, it only lasts for a half hour or so but again, the quality of life for me and my family between 10:30 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. at night. I dont think anybody should have to deal with that in the City. I have called the City on many occasions about it. I've also called the Police Department about this particular problem. Unfortunately, the Police Department won't even listen to my request or my concern until after 11:00 p.m. So they make me call back at 11:00 p.m. Call back at 11:00 p.m., by the time the Police Department comes out, obviously it's not a life threatening situation, so I don't expect them to rush over there right away, but it is a concern for me on many occasions, on a regular basis. So by the time the police officers do get out there, half an hour or forty-five minutes later, the situation is gone and over with, right. By this time, it's 11:30 or 11:45 p.m. So I've really never gotten any resolution on that, number one big concern for me, right. Another concern that I have is, I've been woken up on several occasions by the crashing of dumpslers at various hours of the evening and early mornings, as early as 3:00 a.m. I've actually left my bedroom because I've been woken up, gone outside, climbed over the brick wall myself, and confronted the gentleman. This is after trying to contact the Police Department, trying to contact the City of Livonia. However, nobody is available at 3:00 in the morning, especially people in the city, right? You guys are sound asleep in bed. Unfortunately, I'm not. Again, I confronted this gentleman the one time and it was nota pleasant experience. I got into a little bit of a verbal confrontation with the guy. Tried to explain to him that there is a city ordinance on noise and he's not supposed to be out there at that time of the day. He told me to gel out of his way. He has a dentist appointment later on that evening. He's got to get his route done. Okay. My wife did call the police that time. As I'm standing next to him in the truck, the guy dumps the dumpster, drops garbage on my head. The police officer came. I was irate. They almost arrested me because I so upset. Fortunately, they didn't, and unfortunately, the police officers said, he doesn't know what the noise ordinance is, so there was nothing he could do at the time. So the guy left. So again, no resolution there. I did follow up and on many occasions have followed up with Steve Banko at the city. He has been very helpful in trying to gel to a resolution with the dumpsters. Again, he's been taking it up directly with the dumpster company itself, but again, just one of several concerns that I've had. The next couple of issues that I have February26, 2013 25618 are specific to the Sheesh restaurant that we have behind us. First of all, Mr. Taormina, I don't know if you can tell me the parking that you have allotted for this facility. Is there anything behind the facility that's counted in that parking, and is that zoned at all for parking? Mr. Wilshaw: Questions usually come to the Chair. Mr. Lipinski: I'm sorry. I don't know if there's any parking allowed behind the facility at all. Mr. Morrow: We'll go to the Planning Director. I think that's part of the count. Mr. Taormina: I don't believe that is the case. When staff did the analysis, I think they counted the striped spaces in the front. I'll have to verify that. Mr. Morrow: Okay, but it doesn't preclude the parking? Mr. Taormina: No. It doesn't preclude it. That area in the back is mostly for service vehicles for the dumpsters, as well as parking for the employees of the facility. Mr. Lipinski: Is there an easement on the rear side of that facility alongside that wall where there should be no parking? Mr. Morrow: Pardon? Mr. Lipinski: Is there an easement on the rear side of that lot against the brick wall that there should be no parking there? Mr. Taormina: I'm not aware of any easement or restriction on parking there. Mr. Lipinski: Because there is an easement on my side of the wall in my yard that I'm not allowed to do anything with. I assumed I guess that R was the same on the other side. Mr. Morrow: You mean as far as not being able to park there? Mr. Lipinski: Correct. Mr. Taormina: No. Its paved right up to the edge of the wall so vehicles would be allowed to park there. Mr. Lipinski: Okay. Fair enough. So my reason for that concern or those questions, I apologize for directing those in an inappropriate manner, but the reason for that is because there's constantly vehicles parked back there and it has become a hangout for the February26, 2013 25619 employees of the Sheesh restaurant, both inside their vehicles, outside their vehicles, to the point where as I was at work over the past summer, my daughters were outside trying to enjoy our pool in the backyard. I have two teenage daughters, and they called me at work very upset at the fact that there were people peering over the wall staring at them while they were swimming in our pool. And again, obviously as a parent, I rushed home from work, came home, took the rest of the day off, to find again employees from the restaurant that were out there by their vehicles, whether they were on break or whatever. Again, I just kept my daughters in and, again, its just this quality of life thing. I expected to have privacy in this yard and now that's being disrupted. Let's see here. So again, there's constantly vehicles that are being parked out there. Obviously it's irrelevant that the vehicles are out there. I do have a bunch of pictures that show 8 to 10 vehicles at a time that are parked out there on a regular basis. In the summer months, also again as I mentioned, there's constantly people that are hanging out on the backside of the building. On a regular basis again, cars, and this may be part of this carryout service, but there are cars that drive up to the back of the building just blowing their horns, just laying on the horn, keep laying on the horn, until the door opens. Once the door opens, the horn slops and the guy, whether it's a pickup or a delivery whatever it is, it stops. The car goes away only for it to happen again a little bit later on. So that's another part of the noise concern that I have. Quite often loud music is playing back there. Again, whether it's people and they're back there. There's social gatherings that are going on back there until the wee hours of the morning long after the restaurant is closed down. My youngest daughters bedroom is in the rear of our house and she has told me on several occasions where she's been woken up in our house, in her bed, by the noises that are going on, people hooting and hollering just having a party back there. Again, what do I do? I gel up. Typically I call the police. I don't know if they ever come because I go back to bed. Close all my windows, put my daughter back in bed and try to go back to bed myself. And again, like I said, on a regular basis, this is happening out there, more so in the summer months. Obviously we don't see it much in the winter. I've also been awoken on several occasions by semi -trucks silting back there early in the morning just idling, whether they're for his restaurant or another establishment there I don't know, but idling, waiting for the facilities to open up in the morning. And then the dumpster itself, the dumpster is in the middle of the lot back there directly behind my property, which just has a nasty aroma to it. If you can imagine, that again expels right into my backyard as well. In fad, I've even gone over there on a couple occasions and closed it myself just to try to help myself out February26, 2013 25620 here. But again, quite honestly, I didn't come here tonight to oppose the expansion of the establishment. The establishment itself I think is a thriving business. If he can take up some vacant land in the complex there, that's great. I'm all for it. But I did want to express my concerns in hopes that this discussion can help remedy the situation. My fear is that the expansion of this, again he's tripling in size basically on the inside. I'm assuming he's also going to have to expand his staff. Does that mean I'm going to have more people out in back? Is there going to be more cars parked back there? Am I going to have more homs honking back there? That's my biggest fear. An expansion there, is that going to contribute and exacerbate the issue that I have today? I didn't see on the site plan at all when you had it up there that there was any provision for a break room inside the facility. During an expansion, maybe put a break room in there and let the employees have a place to hang out per se rather than right behind my yard. So, in closing, my family and I enjoy swimming in our pool, sitting on our deck, enjoying the summertime. The noise and disruption from the goings on behind our property has limited our ability to do so, which in essence diminishes our quality of life. It really does. I hope you guys can lake these concerns into consideration during any planning and/or approval of the expansion. Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else in the audience? Mr. Bahr: Mr. Chair, can I ask the last resident one question? Mr. Morrow: Yes, you may. Mr. Bahr: Just a simple question, I just want to clarify. You talked about the people congregating back there. The noise issues with that have been in the middle of the night. Correct? I understand that there are people out there at all times, employees and sluff. Mr. Lipinski: I don't appreciate them peering over the wall into my yard at my daughters in the pool. That's an issue. But yes, the biggest issue has been the noise that they're creating there with their gatherings. Mr. Bahr: But you said that was a middle of the night issue, right? Mr. Lipinski: I'm not going to say the middle of the night because it depends what your middle of the night is, but after the establishment closes. Mr. Bahr: I'm just trying to get a sense of how directly it's connected with the restaurant. I'm not disputing anything you were saying. February26, 2013 25621 Mr. Lipinski: Like I said, it's right behind their facility. It's between the time the restaurant is closing down and it just never stops. You can tell there's people congregating right there and it just continues to go on and on and on. Mr. Bahr: But it's going on at hours that the restaurenl is not open? Mr. Lipinski: Correct. Mr. Bahr: Okay. Thanks. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Is that it? Mr. Bahr: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much. The next gentleman. Donald Hoppe, 15547 Liverpool, Livonia, Michigan 48154. 1 live right behind the restaurant. I loo don't have a big problem with the restaurant. I do have a problem, like the gentleman said back here, with the smell. It overwhelms me when I'm in my yard. I cannot sit in my backyard. Sometimes the smell is good, sometimes its not. And then the Iasi couple things. Am I to understand that this building will not be made any bigger? They're just going to push over through the wall and go to the other side? Mr. Morrow: That is correct Mr. Hoppe: Another thing. I agree with Tom wholeheartedly. People and the trucks literally sleep. They pull in, the refrigeration trucks, and sleep behind there. I've been back there. I've been back like Tom. I go there. I call and all that kind of sluff. That's one thing. The second thing is, do you realize since Fitness 19 came in there, I think that's the name of that, that lot is jammed packed full almost all day long and late into the evening? Now you say you've got enough parking space. I don't know where you're going to put them. There's times when you can hardly gel into the CVS, believe me. It's jammed. People are coming and going all day. I think they close at 8:00 or something like that. That is a concern. The concerns we had years ago with that property back there, we're fighting still. Our worst fears have come true. This is a noisy mess behind the stores. A total mess. Michigan Bell is good. I dont have a problem with them, but behind those stores, the trucks and the dumpslers, they don't care when them come in. They come in there and they slam those babies down. I think they do it on purpose. That's a real problem. The odor is a real problem. I know there are February26, 2013 25622 systems because I worked for Ford Motor Company. There are systems where you can eliminate odors and smells like that, but in the meantime, the situation in the back of those stores has got to stop. Somehow you people got to do something for us back there because its ridiculous. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Jon Ameel, 15499 Liverpool, Livonia, Michigan 48154. 1 am the triangular lot directly behind the facility. The dumpsler is on the close side to the wall that's adjacent to my property. I have not experienced a lot of the issues that my neighbors have experienced as well. I've experienced people talking in the parking lot. I haven't experienced loud parties. I haven't experienced music or anything that I would characterize as having a gathering or celebration, but it's true, there are people after work that will sit and chat afterwards. Sometimes they raise voices. That's not a particular bother to me. The only issue that I have with the expansion of Sheesh restaurant would be with the owner of the facility and the trash mitigation, the pickup, and the cleaning. It is extremely loud and extremely bright. Thursday nights, 10:30, 1 also have a discotheque in my living room. I don't see how the expansion of Sheesh has to do with the owner of the facility cleaning up the lot behind Sheesh. Expanding the restaurant to accommodate more seating is more a transfer of the business from the mostly carryout to a mostly sit down restaurant. The turnover rete will probably be lower than what you have now because of the limited seating. I'm not sure whether that's going to increase or keep the same the amount of waste product that is generated because more seating doesn't necessarily translate into more food that's going through the kitchen because most of the business is in carryout, or what was it? Forty percent or something like that. For me, my experience, Sheesh has been a fantastic neighbor and I haven't had issues with the staff, the ownership. I actually think at 10:00 in the morning when the grill starts up and Iamb and garlic just wafts over my yard, I'm okay with that. I'm actually surprised I haven't gained 300 pounds since I moved into that house. But again, in the heal of the summer, yes. The dumpsters do put out a significant odor. I just want to relay my experience. I have no intention of opposing the expansion of Sheesh. I support the local business expanding and I want them to do very, very well. My issues are mostly with the owner and the way that they are cleaning up the back of the building, not with the tenant. Thank you. February26, 2013 25623 Mr. Morrow: Thank you. We'll invite the petitioner back having heard the input from your neighbors. We'd like to have your reaction to it and we'll be hanging on every word. Mr. Ibrahim: Okay, first of all, I'd like to apologize to my neighbor because this is the first time I ever heard this kind of complaint. If I ever were aware of those issues that come from my premises, I would take care of them. Just to let you know, that our restaurant, our business hours close at 11:00 at night, and most of the time I close the restaurant myself every night. By 9:00 p.m., it would be me and a cook and a waitress. Three people will be left at that shift from 9:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. I know there is a lot of other businesses in the plaza. There is Fitness 19; there is CVS; there is a lot of other things going on but I'm not sure what's related to my restaurant and what's not, but I can show my neighbor if those issues were addressed with me, I know that they were coming from me or my staff, those issues will have been taken care of long, long ago, but I can assure you that they were never brought to my attention directly. And the second issue, the plaza used to have two restaurants back in the summer. There was a Chinese restaurant and us. Right now the Chinese restaurant moved out. They moved out. They used to be small but sometimes nobody had control of the wind, how the wind is going to blow, but right now its less than before because right now the whole plaza is limited to one restaurant instead of two restaurants. As far as the gentleman mentioned, I have no premises, no employees after 11:00 p.m. I'm the last one to leave most of the time. Me and my partner we rotate every other day but we don't want our place out of hand. At 11:00 p.m. there are no employees of ours on the premises. By 9:00 p.m., we have two people, the waitress and the cook. We dont have that many people at that time. I'm not sure what that's coming from. If I know, these issues will be taken care of if they are coming from my restaurant. But I can assure you, those things come from my staff or my restaurant, they will be taken care of long ago. I will not have neighbor of mine feel that way toward me. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Do you contract for the garbage? Mr. Ibrahim: The garbage is handled by the landlord because we have joint trash for everybody for the whole plaza. Everybody uses it and they pick it up twice a week. Then again, if that's an issue from me, from my restaurant, I'm willing to have my own, but there never was issue that somebody complained directly to us. The landlord handles it, manages it. He charges us for it, but they come and pick it up twice a week. Mr. Ibrahim: We have a system right now. There is a fan. When the food is cooking, the fan blows that smoke up. There are certain things, yes, that sometimes if the fans or the hoods overwork or dirty or not being maintained, they start to gel that dark smoke and spread out and do this. But I have a record to show that every three months, which is I'm required by code that every six months to clean the hood, I do my hood every three months. I get it cleaned up plus we have the weekly system of doing our filter. But there's other things. I thought one time there was mention that one of my staff mentioned that one of the customers came in and talked to them about the smoke. They complained about the smoke. I talked to someone who handled this sluff. We put them in a way where sometimes how the wind February26, 2013 25624 Mr. Morrow: Well, I know one thing for sure we can do. We can condition this that there is no after-hours picking up of trash. This is a waiver of use which means it's intensifying the use of the properly and if the landlord wants to have you expand, he's going to have to schedule the pickups. Mr. Ibrahim: I can handle those issues myself but they pick them up on Tuesday and Friday. They pick them up around 12:00 or 1:00 in the afternoon. That's the pickup hours. I know their schedules. But I can assure you there are a lot of other trucks coming to the plaza, CVS deliveries, other people. There are truck deliveries coming in and out of that plaza. Mr. Morrow: All we can do tonight is address your situation. Mr. Ibrahim: Yes, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: As I saw the issues presented by the residents tonight, I wrote them down, and I kind of categorized them into two categories. There are some issues that are directly related to your business that were brought up, and then there were some issues that were brought up related to the center itself independent of your business. The issues that are related to your business that I want to ask you about really specifically go to odors and emissions from your cooking equipment. We heard about possibly some grease coming out which is causing a film on people's cars. I can see that happening with fryers and so on. Whether that was from the Chinese restaurant or from yours, I don't know, but regardless, you're here and I'd like to talk about that, and then of course the odor itself that comes out of your cooking equipment. It does seem like there's probably some sort of a charcoal filler or something that you can put on things. Is there something that you could do that might help that situation? Mr. Ibrahim: We have a system right now. There is a fan. When the food is cooking, the fan blows that smoke up. There are certain things, yes, that sometimes if the fans or the hoods overwork or dirty or not being maintained, they start to gel that dark smoke and spread out and do this. But I have a record to show that every three months, which is I'm required by code that every six months to clean the hood, I do my hood every three months. I get it cleaned up plus we have the weekly system of doing our filter. But there's other things. I thought one time there was mention that one of my staff mentioned that one of the customers came in and talked to them about the smoke. They complained about the smoke. I talked to someone who handled this sluff. We put them in a way where sometimes how the wind February26, 2013 25625 blows that is out of anybodys control. Sometimes when it is not windy, they keep going up. They don't bother nobody. But sometimes if the wind will be facing east or sometimes facing west, it blows. Mr. Wilshaw: You can't control the wind, but what you can control is what comes out of the stack into the air. Mr. Ibrahim: Which is that part to clean and maintain the filler on the hood and the maintenance and the good shape and to clean. I'm required to clean my hood six months, and I do it every three months. Mr. Wilshaw: It sounds like you're going above and beyond what you need to do, but is there anything more you can do? Is there maybe a HEPA filter or a charcoal filler or something that might make it even better? Mr. Ibrahim: With the new plan, I put a bigger fan to blow up bigger, to go up higher. That might solve it. But sometimes, even I talked to a specialist, sometimes there is nobody going to have control of how the wind is going to blow. Ninety percent of the time its not windy, they go up because they are high up and they have a safeguard. The city when we put them in, they make us put a safeguard. They have a safeguard and they are high enough that one time when it is not windy, they don't bother nobody because they're high above enough that smoke goes up in the air. But sometimes it gets windy, it depends where the wind goes, it does do that. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Well, maybe what we need to do is see if we can .. . you're required to do this. You've gone here. Maybe we can take it a little bit further and try to accommodate the neighbors a little bit more if there is something that you can do. Mr. Ibrahim: Anything. I'm willing to work with anything. This was the first time I hear that I have a neighbor that complains. Mr. Wilshaw: I understand that. There were a lot of things that were said tonight that you haven't had a chance to hear yet, and I'm glad that you're hearing them. That's the reason we have these meetings. Mr. Ibrahim: Absolutely. Mr. Wilshaw: And I hope that you take those things that were brought up, think about them, and think about ways that you can be a better neighbor with these people so that they will want to become February26, 2013 25626 good neighbors of your restaurant and you can gel along with them and everything. Mr. Ibrahim: Absolutely. Plus I want to give my number to them so they can come see me directly when they have these problems, and I can show them if it's coming from my restaurant, they will be corrected on the spot. I can give my word to them that they can come see me because I've never met none of them. None of them approached me. Mr. Wilshaw: That's a good gesture. You're putting your hand out at least and offering it. The other issues that were brought up, and I think they are important quality life issues that are not related directly to your business but the center in general, are things like dumpster delivery coming in the middle of the night. The trucks that are making deliveries perhaps coming early in the morning and idling waiting for people to show up. And I don't know. It may not be your business. It may be other businesses there. These are not things that we are pinning on you but the center in general. Then of course the street sweeping, the cleaning of the lot, which is kind of an interesting problem in the sense that a lot of these shopping centers don't have regular cleaning, and they look like heck because there's trash all over the place. Al lead they have something they can try to get rid of the trash. That's kind of a good thing. The problem is that you don't want it at 1100 at night. Mr. Ibrahim: Maybe the timing can be arranged to be changed. Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly. Those things I think we want to identify and we want to see if we can work with the owner of the center to do something about it. The only way we can do that because he's not here obviously, but you are having a relationship with him right now because you're trying to expand your space, and unfortunately, you're going to gel picked on a little bit here because the only leverage we have in these situations is we can put conditions on your approval, things like delivery hour restrictions, dumpster delivery restrictions, street sweeping activities, and try to limit those hours. It doesn't really impact your business, but we're going to try to get these things on the record so that this gives the residents there another bit of leverage that can be used if these things are violated, they can go to the Inspection Department and say, hey, these were conditions of this approval and they're not meeting these conditions. The dumpsters are lett open, whatever it may be, and then send the Inspectors out and gel them. That's one of the few things that we can offer. I can't gel up at 3:00 in the morning and go over there and check. I'd love to, to try and help these residents, but these are one of February26, 2013 25627 the few things that we can do to make the situation better for not only you but also the residents. I'm going to hope that any approving resolution would have some of these restrictions in thereto tryto workout some of these issues. Mr. Ibrahim: I can assure you these issues I'm going to work out without being condition of my approval. Those things I won't accept to have my neighbor to have that feeling toward me. So definitely those issues will be handled. Mr. Wilshaw: Exactly. I gel the impression that you're a strong business owner that wants to run a good business and you don't want to tolerate this kind of behavior. So some of the comments about maybe employees going out there, if they gel a little noisy or if they're messing around a little bit back there, I know you're going to have a firm hand and you may need to talk to some of those waitresses or whatever and say, hey, don't be peeking over the wall or whatever is going on. hope you do that. Mr. Ibrahim: Absolutely. And I'm going to give my cell phone number to those neighbors. If they see something, they call me personally and theyre going to see it be corrected on the spot. I can assure you that. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Great. Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: The only thing I would add, Mr. Wilshaw, I don't know how big a problem the diesel parking back there running at all hours, but I think that should be part of the resolution so the landlord is aware they can park in front. In fact, under normal conditions, if there is a problem with deliveries, we qualify it that they can't park back there and idle, particularly when it's close to residential. You've heard from your neighbors. If he's got some problems after hours, you can only be responsible for your employees. And if there's other ones, we can address that, but we're not trying to lay the whole backyard on you. Just be mindful of what you heard tonight. Mr. Ibrahim: Iunderstand. Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much, and if there's nothing else, I'm going to close the public hearing and ask for a motion. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #02-08-2013 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on February 26, 2013, on Petition 2013-02-02-04 submitted by Ahmad Ibrahim requesting February26, 2013 25628 waiver use approval pursuant to Section 19.06 of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended, to expand the existing restaurant (Sheesh Restaurant) and add sealing at 37240 Five Mile Road within the Century Plaza shopping center, located on the northeast corner of Five Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 17, which properly is zoned G7, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2013-02-02-04 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the maximum customer seating count shall not exceed ninety (90) inleriorseals; 2. That this approval is subject to City Council waiving the requirement set forth in Section 10.03 and Section 2.08(13) of Zoning Ordinance No. 543, as amended, which limits the maximum seating capacity for the restaurant to 30 seats, in order to allow this restaurant to have a total of 90 interior seals; 3. That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated February 7, 2013, from the City Engineer, including those relating to the amount of Fats, Oils and Grease that can be discharged to the City sanitary sewer system, shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and/or Engineering Department; 4. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals; 5. That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted on the site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows; 6. That the Building Inspection Department look at the exhaust issues to determine if there can be any improvements made, as well as the parking issues that have been mentioned by the semi -trucks to make sure there's no overnight parking or that they're not on the property during extended hours when they should not be there; 7. That the trash dumpster shall be closed at all times, and the hours for dumpster pickup shall be limited from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.; February26, 2013 25629 8 That the parking lot sweeping shall be completed no later than 10:00 p.m.; and 9. That the petitioner shall consolidate the grease trey area and relocate it so that it is farther away from the residents. FURTHER, the Planning Commission recommends the approval of a Conditional Agreement limiting this waiver use to this user only, with the provision to extend this waiver use approval to a new user only upon approval of the new user by the City Council. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 10.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Ms. Scheel: I'd also like to add a condition that we have the Building Inspection Department look at the exhaust issues that have been mentioned this evening, as well as the parking issues that have been mentioned by the semi -trucks to make sure there's no overnight parking or that they're not on the property during extended hours when they should not be there. Mr. Taylor: Just to the neighbors out there, the Livonia City Council carries much more weight with the Inspection Department and the Police Department than we do. If you show up at the meeting of the Council, I don't know when it might be, but if you take a look and make sure you show up at those meetings, the Council will verify the fact that they will do something about it to try and gel the Police Department to keep an eye on it so there's no loitering back there or with the parking. They'll enforce what we're trying to do for you. It's just a suggestion. February26, 2013 25630 Unidentified audience member: How can they enforce the smoke coming out of the chimney? Mr. Morrow: The discussion is closed. I'm sorry, sir, but the public hearing is closed. Ms. Scheel: Mr. Chair, I also wanted to add the Iasi paragraph for the record. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Taylor, have you finished? Mr. Taylor: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: If the maker of the motion would be willing to add a couple additional restrictions to the approving resolution that, dumpsler enclosures on the properly be closed at all times when not in use, which is sort of standard verbiage for us but it sounds like that needs to be reiterated. And that the pickup hours for the dumpslers, Mr. Taormina, do we have some standard verbiage for basically normal business hours? Mr. Taormina: No. So if you want to provide the parameters, we'll be happy to create that language. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. I guess we'd say normal business hours which would be 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., basically during the day. And then also any parking lot sweeping also would have to be done. Of course, its difficult to sweep up a parking lot that's filled. You've got to give them some reasonable amount of time, certainly no later than 11:00 p.m. definitely. Ms. Scheel: I think (hats what it is right now. Mr. Wilshaw: The noise ordinance cuts off at 11:00 p.m. but still, it sounds like there's been some parking lot sweeping activity occurring after. Correct? Unidenfifed audience member: Cant respond? Mr. Wilshaw: Do you want to allow the resident to address the issue of parking lotsweeping? Mr. Morrow: Well, I've closed the public hearing now. I think we've got enough input. Mr. Wilshaw: I would say 10:00 p.m. for that just to give some reasonable amount of time for them to clean the parking lot. February26, 2013 25631 Ms. Scheel: I just have one question with that. Is the restaurant open until 11:00 p.m.? Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. Ms. Scheel: Can the parking lot sweep then? Mr. Wilshaw: That's the difficulty of that situation. Most parking lot sweeping does occur in the middle of the night in most places, but obviously this is disruptive to the neighbors. Ms. Scheel: Okay. So you were mentioning the dumpster being closed, the pickup hours for the dumpster and the parking lot sweeping. Those were the three items? Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, if that's acceptable. Ms. Scheel: That's acceptable to me. Mr. Taylor? Mr. Taylor: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Can I ask a question of the petitioner, if that's okay, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Morrow: Well, seeing you're the Director, I'm going to cut you a little slack. Mr. Taormina: Thanks. Is the landlord responsible for the pickup of all of the trash enclosures at the rear of the center? Mr. Ibrahim: Yes. Mr. Taormina: So there is more than one trash enclosure back there. Mr. Ibrahim: There are two. Mr. Taormina: Is there a grease container as well? Mr. Ibrahim: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Are you responsible for the cleanup and maintenance of that grease, sir? Mr. Ibrahim: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Okay. So we will want to include provisions specific to the grease container as well. February26, 2013 25632 Ms. Scheel: I agree. Mr. Taylor, do you agree? Mr. Taylor: I'm fine with that. Mr. Bahr: A very quick question through the Chair to either Mr. Wilshaw or Mr. Taormina. Do things like the street sweepers, the slaming trash bins, are those subject to the noise ordinance that is already on the books? Mr. Taormina: No. Mr. Bahr: So are we really adding anything by adding that in? I guess I'll just put that question out there. If one wants to respond, you can. Mr. Morrow: We can condition the hours that they are picked up. Mr. Bahr: Okay. Mr. Morrow: In other words, it's not uncommon to condition for diesel trucks not to idle close to residents. When you're close to residential, the hours that they can pick up, that's not covered by the ordinance. Mr. Taormina: What's happening here, too, is that you're actually imposing more strict rules as they apply to these because of the unique nature of the use and the granting of the waiver use. The requirement that this be done prior to 10:00 p.m. is actually a more strict standard with respect to the noise limitations. Mr. Bahr: Okay. I just wanted to understand that. Thanks. Mr. Wilshaw: Just to respond to Mr. Bahr. In this particular case, there is certainly some over ap; however, we are lightening the screw if you will to some extent on the existing law and also giving the residents potentially another avenue of violation to use if this continues to be an issue, as opposed to just stdctiy going to the police as a noise ordinance. Now they could deal with the Inspection Department as a violation of the conditions of this approval, and that could then lead to the owner of the property having sanctions put against him or something along those lines with the realization that people will do whatever people want to do regardless of what laws exist. Its certainly possible that a dumpster could still be emptied at 3:00 a.m. and disrupt neighbors, but hopefully the additional restrictions will discourage that. Mr. Morrow: If there are no further comments, I will ask for the roll call. February26, 2013 25633 Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM #4 PETITION 1989-09-0830 MARTIN'S YARD ACCENTS Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 1989- 09-08-30 submitted by Marlin's Yard Accents, L.L.C. requesting to modify the previously approved conditions of Planning Commission Resolution #10-209-89, dated October 3, 1989, in connection with the construction of a parking lot at 12275 Inkster Road, located on the west side of Inkster Road between Plymouth Road and the railroad right-of-way in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 25. Mr. Taormina: This is a request to modify a previously approved site plan. This property is located south of Gmnlland Avenue and on the west side of Inkster Road. It's at the southwest corner of Inkster and Gmnlland. It is a unique property in that it has triple -frontage. The easterly half of the property is zoned G7, Local Business. The westerly portion of the site is zoned P, Parking. The parcel borders Inkster, which is the site's main address, along the east side, Granlland along the north side of the property, and Arcola, which is predominantly a residential street located along the westerly border of the property. A little bit about the history. In 1989, the west half of the property was rezoned from R-1, One Family Residential, to P, Parking. At the time, the purpose of the rezoning was to provide some additional off-street parking which was needed apparently as a result of some road improvement activities along Inkster Road where people used to park adjacent to the front of the business. The plans that were approved at that time allowed for the construction of a parking lot behind the commercial enterprise along the south side of Gmnlland at Arcola. The main business at the time was called Cliff Green Sales. It involved the display of various yard ornaments, but the parking area was along the south side of Gmnlland at Arcola. There were three conditions imposed by the Planning Commission at that time: (1) that the parking and landscaping as shown on the submitted plans be adhered to; (2) that the approved landscaping be installed upon completion of the parking lot; and (3) that the parking area not in any way be used for the display or storage of merchandise and/or related materials and equipment. The plan showed a new asphalt parking lot with the capacity for 10 cars. Along Arcola, between the sidewalk and the parking lot, the plan showed a 4 fool wide February26, 2013 25634 strip of landscaping that was to be planted with a continuous row of 36" high shrubs, 22 shrubs all together. Adjacent to the parking lot in the southwest corner of property, the plan included a 30 fool by 22 fool landscaped area. The current owner is seeking to alter the conditions of approval from the 1989 plan mainly in order to remove the aforementioned landscaping, to install a 30 fool by 22 fool equipment storage and material delivery area in the southwest area, and then fully enclose the parking lot as well as the storage and material delivery areas with new fencing. Proposed along the west and north sides of the parking lot is a 6'-10" high ornamental metal fence. Gates would be installed to allow access to the parking lot off Grentiand Avenue. Some concern was expressed at the study meeting that these gales, because they open out towards Grentiand Avenue, would at limes block the sidewalk. So there was an indication that this plan be modified so the gate, if approved, would swing inward. For the storage and material delivery area, the plans show a new 6 fool high wooden privacy fence that would extend from the end of the existing wood fence and run along a portion of the south properly line to the edge of the Arcola right-of-way. Essentially what I'm referring to now is an extension of the fence along the south properly line. It would wrap around and fully enclose this 30 fool by 22 fool area where the landscaping was previously located. That's been eliminated and replaced with a gravel surface. As the petitioner described to us at the study meeting, this area would be used for vehicle and material storage that would be fully enclosed with gales on the north side with access to the parking lot, and then that ornamental metal fencing would extend around the Arcola right- of-way line right to the edge where the two right-of-ways intersect at Grentiand and Arcola. Then the fence would continue east along the property where it would conned to an existing fence. That is a summary of the petition as proposed. Al this time, I can read the correspondence, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Morrow: Please Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, I do have a letter from the petitioner that was in response to some of the departmental correspondence, and I can read that as well unless the petitioner intends to read that into the record. Mr. Morrow: It might make more sense if the petitioner wants to respond to the letters. He'll have the opportunity tonight. Mr. Taormina: That's fine. There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated February 6, 2013, which reads as follows: "in accordance with your request, the February 26, 2013 25635 Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced waiver use approval request. The written legal description is comect. The address for this site is confirmed to be 12275 Inkster Road. There is an existing 24 -inch diameter sanitary sewer that runs north and south down the centedine of the 20 feet wide vacated alley. In addition, a 124nch water main that runs east and west along Grantland and a 12 -inch storm sewer that runs north and south along Arcola is not shown on the drawing. The drawing shows that proposed gate along Grantland opening into the existing 5 feet sidewalk as it would pose a hazard to pedestrians. Requirement should be considered for gate to open inward onto the property. An Engineering Permit would be required to replace any existing sidewalk that may be damaged or necessary for fence installation. Property owner to contact MISS DIG (1-800-482-7171) a minimum of 3 working days (excluding Saturday, Sunday and Holidays) before any work commences if approved." The letter is signed by Todd Zilincik, City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 13, 2013, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the modified plans for parking and storage on the property at the above referenced address. Based on the submitted site plan, Livonia Fire & Rescue approves the request with the condition that the listed NFPA 1, Uniform Fire Code, requirements are followed. 60.2.5.1 A single outdoor control area shall be permitted on any property where the conditions of 60.1.24 can be satisfied. 60.1.24 Outdoor Storage and Use Areas. Outside storage and use areas for hazardous materials shall comply with the following. (1) Outside storage and use areas shall be kept free of weeds, debris, and common combustible materials not necessary to the storage or use of hazardous materials. (2) The area surrounding an outdoor storage and use area shall be kept clear of weeds, debris, and common combustible materials not necessary to the storage or use of hazardous materials for a minimum distance of 30 feet (9.1 m). (3) Outside storage and use areas for hazardous materials shall be located not closer than 20 feet (6.1 m) from a property line that can be built upon, street, alley, or public way, except that a 2 -hour fire barrier wall, without openings and extending not less than 30 inches (760 mm) above and to the sides of the storage area shall be permitted in lieu of such distance. We are unable to determine that any hazardous or combustible materials will be stored in the designated 'Equipment Storage Area' located in the southwest portion of the drawing." The letter is signed by Daniel Lee, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 6, 2013, which reads as follows: "1 have reviewed the plans in connection with the petition. I have no objections to the proposal as long as the site lines are not compromised by the February26, 2013 25636 proposed fence on the west and north sides of the property at northbound Arcola at Grantland." The letter is signed by John Gibbs, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated February 14, 2013, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) This petitioner is currently being prosecuted in the court system for several outstanding violations on this property that have existed for some time. (2) This petitioner is not currently adhering to the Planning Commission Resolution 10-209-89. (3) Fencing on this property has been illegally erected and the Zoning Board of Appeals has denied the request for variance. (4) The petitioner is proposing stooge of equipment on the South side of the parking lot This property is a double frontage lot Storage of equipment is not permitted in the front yard. (5) The parking spaces are required to be a minimum of 10 feet wide by 20 feet long and double striped. (6) A minimum of one barrier free van accessible parking space is required. This space is to be 8 feet wide with an 8 foot wide hashed access aisle next to it. This space shall also have signage per code. (7) The proposed fence will require a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals as it is not allowed. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the departmental correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Before we go to the petitioner, are there any comments or questions? Mr. Bahr: Mark, just to clarify through all that, does it all comes down to this: Mr. Marlin needs approval for not having the landscaping as specified by the plan and to add the fence around the properly? I know there are other specific issues, but those are the two primary issues here, right? Mr. Taormina: Yes. The replacement of the landscape area with the equipment storage and material delivery area, the fencing, and then certainly the modifications to the balance of the landscape plan. Mr. Bahr: Sure. And I may have missed this. Is there some kind of ordinance or something against him erecting a fence around that property right now? Mr. Taormina: Yes. That fence definitely extends into the required setback lines. So, if you approve the changes to the site plan, he would have to go back before the Zoning Board of Appeals for approval of that fence because it violates our setback requirements. February26, 2013 25637 Mr. Bahr: That answers that question. Then the last question I have for you is, in the original resolution from 24 years ago, the third condition was that the "parking area not in any way be used for the display or storage of merchandise and/or related materials and equipment" Related materials and equipment, is that specifically related to selling merchandise or would the trailer that's stored back there now, is that considered in that? Mr. Taormina: That would most definitely be considered in this. You would have to remove that condition from the approval. You'd have to modify that or remove it altogether. Mr. Bahr: Okay. I just wanted to clarify those things. Thankyou. Mr. Taylor: There are still outstanding violations through the Court, right? Mr. Taormina: That is my understanding, correct. Mr. Taylor: To you Scott, that is now a double front lot. That's the way they consider it. There's a front here and a front there and there's no fence allowed in the front yard. Period. Mr. Bahr: I've learned many things tonight. Mr. Morrow: Are there any other comments or questions before we go to the petitioner? Mr. Martin, we'll need your name and address for the record. Christopher Martin, 11037 Hubbard, Livonia, MI 48150. I'm the agent for this business. Mr. Morrow: Do you want to add anything to the presentation or any comments? Mr. Martin: Well, just a little brief history here if I can. Mr. Morrow: We don'twantlo gotoo far into the history. Mr. Martin: Okay. I wont give the 60 year history. How about if I just give the history of when I owned the place. Mr. Morrow: Yes, as it relates to this area. Mr. Martin: I had purchased this properly in 2005. This was a bank foreclosure. I purchased this on a bulk bid, the same way the Awrey factory was recently purchased within the last week. Upon obtaining this property when my neighbor ... I now own February 26, 2013 25638 the house just south of that parking area there. When there was a different owner there, the previous owner before he let that house go back to the bank, when I initially bought the property there, he came over and told me of activity that was happening there in the parking lot in the evening. So what I've been trying to do is clean up that particular area. I don't like people congregating in the evening there. They were even doing it in the day. As far as securing that area, that was enclosed previously before it was opened up and the parking lot was created there. That was all enclosed with a six fool privacy fence. On the north side of the property there that abuts Grantland Avenue, that picture there shows an attempt to keep people out of there. It shows some posts and some chain link fence or chain link cable that was placed across the northern part there. So a chain link or a piece of cable. That's pretty dangerous. Thal wasn't never there when I bought the property, but I would never have even dreamt of putting anything over an inlet into a parking lot. I used to ride a motorcycle when I was a little bit younger, and the thought of running into a cable stretched across an unlit parking lot is not a good idea. Along Arcola Street there, the majority of those shrubs that were shown in the initial 1989 plan weren't even there when I purchased the property. The area there that I'm trying to make into an enclosed storage, that was landscaped. It was landscaped when I purchased the place with an approximately 60 fool tall dead Ash tree, and that was surrounded by broken pieces of concrete. Evidently, over the years they had replaced some of the sidewalk and then had put the sidewalk pieces around the tree, I guess, to landscape it. So I had the tree cul down, removed all of that, and basically cleaned up the area. Seal coated the parking lot, double striped it, put barricades up. Theyre painted yellow if anybody ever ... if you came by you would have seen them out there. One evening somebody had taken those barricades, put them in Granlland Street blocking the entire street on a foggy evening. Cars ran into that. One went up on the curb. There was a big oil slick there. I'm having disabled vehicles lett there. Sometimes they push them off of Grantand in there only to pick them up several days later. I'm having an obstacle course set up there for roller blading and skate boarding. That's not in the winter; that's in the summertime. As far as Todd's idea there where those gates instead of swinging outboard swing inboard. I'm trying to gain as much distance as I can inboard there between the fence, the ornamental fence and the two handicapped parking spaces that I have at the northeast comer of the parking lot there. So that's why the gates I wanted them, yes, they swing out over the sidewalk, but they would open at 180 degrees where they would not be blocking the sidewalk. I mean if I was attempting to block February26, 2013 25639 the sidewalk and pedestrians, I would also be inhibiting cars from pulling into my parking lot. Once again, that parking lot was established due to the elimination of the off street parking that was along the west side of Inkster Road. As far as this particular evening here, I just now had become aware of it that for some reason now that things have changed, and that the fencing would now require me to go back in front of the Zoning Board. I will say when I submitted this plan, that Scott told me that wasn't required. Al Iasi Tuesday night's study meeting, Mark on the record said that wasn't required. So it's somewhat of a shock to me this evening. I've been a little bit blindsided by that. The improvements that I've made on the property I felt were necessary. This plan is from 1989. Many things in Livonia have changed since then. It's a fun business to run but I haven't made any money on this thing. Its disheartening when I show up there and things are stolen and vandalized. Also, I had mentioned in front of City Council one evening and its three minutes of that video is out there on Youlube but the other portion of it, I talked about the drug house that was next to me on Inkster. That was really stressfully for about six months until they moved out. Somebody else moved in. My first question to him when he introduced himself, his name was Frank, he goes, my name is Frank. I said, Frank, are you normal? And he started laughing. He said, yeah, I cleaned out the house and I'm finding needles hidden here and there in the house. He said, what was going on here? So I'm representing not only myself as a small business owner, but a lot of other ones that are attempting to keep their businesses operating. Okay? And in order to do that I need to secure the property. I dont want people in there. My neighbors dont want them in there. When you look at the Wayne County DPW Yard that is north of me on Grantiand, look at the fence there. Somebody is going to make me jump over some more hurdles to put up a real nice attractive fence. You have the same fence 10 feel around the Slate park immediately south of the Rec Center, but yet now all of a sudden, calling it a double frontage lot. Lel me explain that. On the zoning map here that I do have, it shows one lax id number. I wish I could find it now. As Mark staled, the front door of the house faces Inkster Road. The mailbox is out there. The address is there. To call it a double frontage lot, let me explain that to people out there. Just because the rear of the property buts another street, somehow miraculously that now becomes another front to the property. Off of Arcola Street, there is no driveway leading into that. There is nothing there to get into that parking lot off of Arcola Street. Mr. Morrow: Well, let me just... February26, 2013 25640 Mr. Martin: I'm just giving you a brief thing there, Lee. If you have any specific questions, any of you, I'll try my best to answer them. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Well, Tel's just clear that up. Mark, could you clear up why that's called a double front lot? Mr. Taormina: Its by virtue of the fad that it has frontage on more than one street. In fad, if you give me a minute .... continue on with your discussion and I'll look up the definition of a double frontage lot. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Mr. Martin: I'm hoping that this property was in existence before that law of the double frontage lot came into effect because then I would be grandfathered in. There's one thing unique about this property. Since 1965 on, you cannot live on a commercial piece of property unless it had been done prior, and it had been. This place has been there more than 60 years, and its been ongoing like that. Okay? So I'm grandfathered in on some of these things. As far as the parking lot though, I have 17 letters of support. Never one negative one from any of my neighbors. Okay, Lee. Mr. Morrow: Lel me see if there are any questions of the petitioner? Ms. Scheel: Not of the petitioner. I have a question for Mark. Mr. Morrow: That's fine. Ms. Scheel: But Mark's looking up something. Mr. Taormina: No, go ahead. Mr. Martin: Mark can multi task. Ms. Scheel: Currently right now, is there a fence around this property? Mr. Taormina: Not entirely. Ms. Scheel: But in certain areas? Mr. Taormina: In certain areas there is fencing that is along portions of the perimeter of the property. Most of the areas where fencing exists is outside of the purview of tonight's discussion. I'll bring the plan back up to describe what I'm talking about. The area that we're looking at this evening really is focusing on this area here, which is the parking lot, the material delivery and February26, 2013 25641 equipment storage area, and the landscaping that was required on the 1989 plan along Arcola, as well as the landscaping that was shown originally along Gmntland Avenue. The remaining portions of this site really weren't a consideration back during the review in 1989. There is fencing located here, which was back on the original plan, and from what I can tell, was probably what existed at the time. Actually, it says new fence. So the fence here was something that was allowed back in 1989. But there also exists a fence along Gmntland Avenue for a portion of the site as well as Inkster Road. Some of that fencing located here is all fencing that is permitted. A portion of it, according to the Inspection Department, was never allowed and is the subject of a violation but not something that you're considering this evening. That includes a certain amount of fencing in the front yard area along Inkster Road which is used to, I think, enclose some portion of the display yard. Ms. Scheel: Okay. But where he's asking for fencing right now, the only part that there's fencing currently is along this where you just showed. Mr. Taormina: Right here. There's fencing currently here on the site. Ms. Scheel: Okay, but not along Grenfiand and not along Arcola? Mr. Taormina: Not along this portion of Gramand and not along Arcola. That is correct. And not along this portion of the south property line. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Mr. Morrow: Mark, what is the height of the wall that will enclose the storage area? Mr. Taormina: He has it identified on the plan as a six foot high wood privacy fence, and I believe the metal fence is a little higher than that. It may be 610". Mr. Morrow: Now that six fool fence for the storage area, does that conflict with any sort of sight lines or anything along that line? Mr. Taormina: Well, again, it extends into the setback requirement in that yard area, and it was indicated by the Inspection Department, and I cannot ever remember saying to this body at the study meeting that no variance was required. It won't require City Council approval, but we've been informed by the Inspection Department that it will require a variance. And in terms of the sight line, it's in the setback technically. There's no sight line intrusion here along the south property line. I have not February26, 2013 25642 measured it in the area at the intersection of Arcola and Gmntland to make that determination. Typically, I think it's measured from the actual pavement edge and there's a triangular section formed at the intersection of those curbs that cannot be impeded with any structure that is more than three feet in height. I'm not sure if this fencing in this comer extends into that zone. Mr. Morrow: Suffice it to say, that detail will have to be worked out during the site plan review. Mr. Taormina: That is something that will have to be worked out. Mr. Morrow: Any other questions of Mr. Martin or of the Planning Director? Ms. Smiley: Is there any landscaping where he wants to put the fence? Mr. Morrow: I think we're refer ed back to the original plan, are we not, Mark? Ms. Smiley: I didn't see landscaping. Mr. Taormina: The shrubs have been removed and I don't know if there's just dirt there or not. Maybe that's a question for Mr. Marlin. But right along Arcola Avenue and maybe even a portion of Gmntland, there is no shrubbery that I'm aware of. There's just either dirt or mulch or something in its place, and then the area back down here has been replaced with a surface of gravel really to accommodate the storage that's taking place there or the vehicle parking. Ms. Smiley: Mr. Chairman, through you, is there a plan for any kind of landscaping? Mr. Martin: Well, lel me mention this. This was pretty much an unworkable plan from the beginning if you really look at d. The western side of the parking lot, see those curb blocks that are abutting the shrubbery that's there? Ms. Smiley: Yes Mr. Martin: Okay. When the wheels of a car hit those, the shrubs could never exist because of the overhang. I don't care if you pull in or back in, it's not going to happen. That's why there were no shrubs there. What I have done is, and I asked Scott, he said mention it if it was brought up, was between the sidewalk and the street I planted Rose of Sharon. It's an attractive looking, it's like an ornamental tree. So I have those along Granlland. I Mr. Martin: Day and night. Let me just tell you, I don't like to keep calling the police so I wait until a group of events happen in a close time span. I don't want to gel Tom Blauvelt out there just to have a talk with me, although we gel along pretty well. But so when he comes out, I tell him, hey, a couple days ago they stole the hub cabs off the car. And then within that same week, the yellow barricades had been put in the street. Where the car came up over the grass, there's a big oil slick where they bottomed out the car. As far as the parking lot itself, I had a vehicle back in and it was in the evening. My neighbor calls me. He's on the other side of the street watching two guys mingling in my parking lot, and he goes, let's just hang on the line for a minute. And so both of them got up on the vehicle, jumped over the six fool fence and went onto the property. He said, what do February26, 2013 25643 think I've got four of them there. I've got one along ... I can put more in along Arcola there. But where they show those existing shrubs from 1989, it just couldn't have worked. It's impossible. Mr. Morrow: Well, maybe we can figure out something. Mr. Martin; I'm willing to put something . I can't put them where I'm pulling the fence, but I would glady ... If you saw the house that I have right next to my parking lot, if you saw the landscaping out there, there was nothing there when I bought that house except the one large tree. All of those shrubs, the rocks, the bushes, everything that is there. You know, I might even have a picture of it here, but ... Mr. Morrow: Well, we dont want... Mr. Martin: I'm just saying that I have no objection to putting some ornamental trees in. Mr. Morrow: Well, I don't want to cause you to put in something that's unworkable, but what 1 would like is for you to work with the staff to see what you can do. Mr. Martin: Sure. I gel along great with Mark. Mr. Morrow: So it will survive. But to answer your question, does that sound all right to you? Ms. Smiley: That's fine. Mr. Bahr: So the purpose of the fence on the properly is security during the night primarily, or what's the purpose of enclosing the parking lot? Mr. Martin: Day and night. Let me just tell you, I don't like to keep calling the police so I wait until a group of events happen in a close time span. I don't want to gel Tom Blauvelt out there just to have a talk with me, although we gel along pretty well. But so when he comes out, I tell him, hey, a couple days ago they stole the hub cabs off the car. And then within that same week, the yellow barricades had been put in the street. Where the car came up over the grass, there's a big oil slick where they bottomed out the car. As far as the parking lot itself, I had a vehicle back in and it was in the evening. My neighbor calls me. He's on the other side of the street watching two guys mingling in my parking lot, and he goes, let's just hang on the line for a minute. And so both of them got up on the vehicle, jumped over the six fool fence and went onto the property. He said, what do Mr. Martin: I'm very familiar with that property also because the maintenance worker over there was the one that saw the two guys in my parking lot that then proceeded to break into my garage. That particular parcel over there, they tried to steal the air conditioning unit that was outside even though that was enclosed with a six foot privacy fence around it. They hooked up a chain to it to a car, pulled the fence down trying to steal the central air conditioning on that building. That building has been attempted to break in numerous times. Phil is always putting more security over the windows over there. They put those lights up, okay? There's people that congregate over there. I'm trying to keep them out of my area. So, yeah, I'm familiar with the . that's the Gmnfland playhouse over there. So I'm familiar with the problems that they have had also. Probably maybe a year and a half, two years ago, I look Conrad Schwartz when he was on City Council and I walked him just on my area over there on Arcola between Grantland and Capitol. Capitol is February26, 2013 25644 you want me to do? I said, well, I'll turn around and come on back, but call the police. By the lime the police got there, I was in Westland waiting for me to come there and lel them in, they had broken into the garage and took some of my tools. So it's at night. Its during the day. I had people that were rendezvousing over there getting in their van. Mr. Bahr: The reason I asked the question is, I understand the issues that you're talking about. You said they're jumping a six foot fence. Mr. Martin: That's correct. They used another car to stand on it to get over the fence. Mr. Bahr: Right. And so I don't know that the extra len inches of this fence... Mr. Martin: Sure it will. Absolutely, because here's the reason why. That's a good question. You cannot climb this particular style offence. Mr. Bahr: That's true. I understand that. Here's where I was ultimately going with that. I actually drove by the property last Tuesday after our study meeting. I noticed your neighbor to the west has a light over the parking lot on both sides of their building. I guess I was just going to ask you, have you ever looked at that? I understand what you're saying about this fence being more effective than a wooden one, but it seems to me regardless, with the problems you've been dealing with that that would make sense unless there is some kind of ordinance against that relative to the nearby properties. But I just wanted to ask you if you've ever looked into that. Mr. Martin: I'm very familiar with that property also because the maintenance worker over there was the one that saw the two guys in my parking lot that then proceeded to break into my garage. That particular parcel over there, they tried to steal the air conditioning unit that was outside even though that was enclosed with a six foot privacy fence around it. They hooked up a chain to it to a car, pulled the fence down trying to steal the central air conditioning on that building. That building has been attempted to break in numerous times. Phil is always putting more security over the windows over there. They put those lights up, okay? There's people that congregate over there. I'm trying to keep them out of my area. So, yeah, I'm familiar with the . that's the Gmnfland playhouse over there. So I'm familiar with the problems that they have had also. Probably maybe a year and a half, two years ago, I look Conrad Schwartz when he was on City Council and I walked him just on my area over there on Arcola between Grantland and Capitol. Capitol is February26, 2013 25645 the first side street. Approximately half the houses or vehicles had been broken into in the last five years. Some of the houses over there twice. So you want to talk about Livonia? I'm very familiar with that area. Mr. Morrow: Right. Mr. Martin, I think you convinced us. Mr. Martin: I'm hoping. I need a majority and to be quite honest I'm disappointed that I might have to go back in front of the distinguished Zoning Board. Mr. Morrow: Anything else, Mr. Bahr? Mr. Bahr: Yes, but I can't keep it all straight in my mind. Mr. Martin: I'll give you time. Its a long meeting. Mr. Bahr: I'm done. Mr. Wilshaw: In an effort to give Mr. Bahr some time to think, I'll ask a single question of you, Mr. Martin. I asked the same question at the study meeting. Mr. Martin: I think I know this one. Mr. Wilshaw: So I hope you have a more direct answer that will be a little shorter than last time. The gates are currently situated to swing outward. The Engineering Department and myself now, I didn't realize that they had already noted that, have asked the question, can you make the gates either swing inward or make them sliding gates or whatever. You kind of already addressed that, but frankly, this is not going to gel approved if the gates are swinging outward. So are you going to deal with that and how? Mr. Martin: Well, I'm going to have to if its not going to gel approved because I cannot continue to have this type of activity, okay? On that drug house, I actually sal out there, okay, wailing, very cold Tuesday and Thursday evenings when they're partying down wailing for them to come out, come onto my property. So, very stressful for a gentleman my age. I could handle it when I was in my twenties. But I could make them swing in if that's one of the conditions you place on this. Putting them on a roller, okay, would bring them inboard even more into one of my two handicapped parking spaces. I'm trying to maximize the useful area that I have in that enclosed parking lot. That's why I was hoping to have them swing out into an area that I wasn't going to need to use. Mr. Bahr: February26, 2013 25646 Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, but the pedestrians need to use it. Mr. Martin: Right, but I mean, hey, I'll have them swing in if that's going to be the major issue this evening of getting a majority of voles. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That is all I needed to hear from you. Thank you very much. Mr. Bahr: I am going to ask just one because I'm not sure the question I asked earlier was answered, and that is relative to the light. Is there any reason why you couldn't put a light over that property? It just seems that that would solve, even with the fence, that Mr. Martin: would solve quite a few issues for you. You told me about the properly next door, but can you just directly answer that Mr. Bahr: question about the light on your property? Mr. Martin: Well, you know, my original idea was on the two posts that the Mr. Martin: gates were hanging on, okay, that now are going to swing inboard. I had two solar lights I was going to put up there, one light on each post just to make it look decomtive, besides putting some type of reflectors on the gale so that nobody runs into it in the evening. I don't want to gel loo much light over there to be quite honest with you because I own that first house. I don't want to turn it into a ... you have too much light, it becomes intrusive to a certain degree, so the fencing, to be quite honest with you, Scott, the fencing is what I need to secure that properly. Mr. Bahr: And on my lighting question, as you're talking, I'm realizing its probably irrelevant because if it's a good idea, that's your issue. So you can let that go. Here's just what I'm struggling with. I can appreciate your concerns and I appreciate what you're trying to do, okay? There's just so many different things that are against the ordinance here that are coming against each other, that's why I said earlier, I'm having trouble sorting this out. The other one that I'm just struggling with here is the wooden fence for the enclosed storage area, which I understand why you're trying to do that. You got a trailer parked back there right now which is a violation, as I understand it, of the ... Mr. Martin: Well, if they want to consider it a front yard, sure. It's not. It's the rear yard. Mr. Bahr: Which if I understand correctly, part of the reason you want the wooden fence there is to rectify that situation. Is that true? Mr. Martin: Yeah. Well, there's several issues. February26, 2013 25647 Mr. Bahr: So you can put the trailer ... Mr. Martin: My trailer, to be quite honest with you, its not that decorative. Its not that attractive. But enclosing d would be nice. I think it would help eliminate that. Also, that first house, if you look in the north of me there in the DPW yard, you see the mounds of dirt and gravel that are there? When that wind comes out of the northwest, which happens quite often, the dust that comes out of there ... so there's another reason why I wanted to put that privacy fence, six fool, wooden, to the end of that enclosed area there leading towards the sidewalk. Also to protect the front of that house where you can sit outside and not be blinking all the time getting sand in our eyes from the mounds of dirt that are north of me. So I thought this whole thing out because, you know, I'm there quite often. Mr. Bahr: I'll ask this and then I think I'm done. The wooden fence, it is going to obstruct the sight lines? Mr. Martin: I can tell you I have pictures here of other fences next to parking lots. Okay? And the police officer, whatever the sergeant .... Mr. Bahr: I'm sure there's exceptions to that throughout the City. I guess my question to either the Chair or through the Chair to Mark, is that something that ultimately ... is that part of what the Zoning Board of Appeals would take up is that wooden fence and the sight line obstruction issue? Mr. Morrow: I think the fencing is the Zoning Board of Appeals. Mr. Bahr: The fencing in its entirety? Mr. Morrow: But as far as the sight lines, would that be worked out during the inspection? Mr. Taormina: You're referring now to the wooden fence? Mr. Bahr: I'm talking about the wooden fence because I understand his need for the wooden fence. Mr. Taormina: I don't think the wooden fence has a sight line issue to the extent that it extends into the setback. If this body approves it, it's still subject to the Zoning Board of Appeals review and approval. Mr. Bahr: But you don't see the wooden fence as a sight line issue? February26, 2013 25648 Mr. Taormina: I don't see it necessarily as a sight line issue because there's no .... well, it depends on how far that driveway is. If there is a concern relative to safety for people walking on the sidewalk where the driveway is located on the adjacent house, then there might be what is considered a sight line issue that the Zoning Board of Appeals might want it reduced in height or whatever. That could be a concern of this body, that six feet is too high to have it extend all the way to the edge of the sidewalk being that It's only maybe 40 feel away from the driveway on the adjacent home, but we have situations, as you are well aware, where driveways go out to a major road where a building has a zero setback line, and that's when that driveway is right up against that building and you know how difficult that is to see a pedestrian. Mr. Bahr: Right, and this is not a major road. Mr. Taormina: This doesn't present the same kind of complication that that would. Mr. Morrow: I would like to have the Zoning Board of Appeals wrestle with that. Mr. Martin: I would just like to mention that the driveway is on the south side of the house, so there is 43 feel between that house. Mr. Morrow: Its probably not a problem, but you know, it will be addressed by the Zoning Board of Appeals. Mr. Taormina: But if this Board says, look, we don't want a wooden fence there. We'd rather have a non -obscuring fence similar in nature to what he is proposing along the rest of the west properly line, the north property line, that is completely within your rights to change that style and design of fence from wooden to something else. Mr. Bahr: Mr. Martin, the purpose of that wooden fence, is it primary your trailer that you want to be able to park behind that wooden fence? Mr. Martin: I'm trying to protect my property. Mr. Bahr: I got that part. I'm talking about the wooden fence. Mr. Martin: I'm trying to eliminate any dirt coming that way. So it's a combination of several things. February26, 2013 25649 Mr. Bahr: Okay. Thanks. Thanks everybody for your patience. I know it's late and I understand all of your concerns. I frankly appreciate aspects of what you're trying to do here. So I don't want anything I'm asking to be perceived as combative because I don't mean it that way at all. It's merely there's a lot of issues coming into play here and I was just trying to sort them out. So thanks for your patience. Mr. Martin: I understand they're questions. Mr. Morrow: Thank you, Mr. Bahr. If there are no other questions and I see no one else in the audience, unless the officer wants to come forward. Mr. Taylor: Just one comment. I think actually we'd be doing Mr. Marlin a favor by denying this resolution because he's had nothing but trouble in Livonia ever since he's lived here. And this is another piece of properly that he just stated that he's never made a dime on. And so I don't know why we should just continue his misery and help him along with having him spend more money for a fence and trying to do something. He's protecting his property and, quite frankly, the properly is an eyesore in Livonia. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Taylor, we will have to react to the petition. Anything else? Then I'm going to ask for a motion. Mr. Martin: Can I make a closing statement? Just for the people out in Livonia there, I have other properly in Livonia besides this place. I've invested over $500,000 in this city because I believe in Livonia. As a matter of fact, I wore my shirt here. I got this at the Salvation Army, $3.99, on the north side of Plymouth Road, west of Farmington. So if Joe Laura is watching, Joe, I got this at the thrift store. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Martin ... Mr. Martin: I spent a lot of money here, Lee. And so, yeah, where was your business, Mr. Taylor? Where was ... Mr. Morrow: No. We're going to cul it oft here. Mr. Martin: I'm through. Mr. Morrow: Its been a long night and I'm going to rule that we ask for a motion now. Mr. Martin: Okay. February26, 2013 25650 Mr. Morrow: A motion is in order. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Wilshaw, it was RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 1989-09-08-30 submitted by Marlin's Yard Accents, L.L.C. requesting to modify the previously approved conditions of Planning Commission Resolution #10-209-89, dated October 3, 1989, in connection with the construction of a parking lot at 12275 Inkster Road, located on the west side of Inkster Road between Plymouth Road and the railroad right-of-way in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 25, be denied for the following reasons: 1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the proposed modifications are in the best interest of the City of Livonia; 2. That the proposed modifications are incompatible to and not in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area; 3. That the proposed modifications would have a detrimental effect upon the neighboring properties; 4. That allowing the proposed modifications would be detrimental to the aesthetic quality and appeal of the surrounding area, and thereby inappropriately altering the character of the neighborhood; and 5. That approving this request would allow elements that are inconsistent with the surrounding land uses. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Mr. Wilshaw: The issue we're faced with today essentially boils down to, more or less, a fence to try to provide this particular business some additional security due to some incidents that he's had and concerns that he has about securing his property. I have no problem with allowing a property owner to have as much security as they feel is necessary to prevent theft or any other trouble. The fence that is being proposed, for the most part, at least the steel portion of the fence that's going to surround the parking lot, is attractive and something we would expect to see just about any petition that we deal with. The difficulty that I have with this particular petition is that there's a tremendous amount, and Mr. Bahr sort of touched on it, there's a tremendous amount of details that we have from issues that are February26, 2013 25651 related to the Zoning Board, and the fence is on the frontage, and that would have to be addressed by the petitioner, and be granted variances. There are a number of issues that the Inspection Department, the Engineering Department, the Fire Marshal and so on have all brought up that all would need to be resolved to their satisfactions for the petitioner to go forward with this. If he is willing to accommodate all those things and meet all those requirements, then I'm fine with this particular petition. If he is unable to or unwilling to, then I believe a denial would be appropriate. With that in mind, that's just my thoughts at this point. I wanted to at least gel the opportunity to say that because the motion was made and we need to have a motion on the floor to discuss it. Mr. Morrow: Is there any other discussion? Mr. Taylor: One other thing, Mr. Chairman, if I may. We're still in court with a few of these items. They are not cleared up yet, and yet we're going to do something else that possibly Mr. Martin won't agree with and wont conform to. Obviously there is a wall that's been put up that was put up without the Zoning Board of Appeals approval. That was one of the things. And Mr. Martin has told us that he's already bought the fence. So he may put that up even if he doesn't have the approval. Just a comment. Mr. Morrow: Its always welcomed. However, I'm trying to confine this to the petition we have in front of us. We may have concerns about some of the other things that the City is concerned about, but tonight I'd like to confine it to whether or not this petition has the merit to go forward, and we assume that Mr. Martin will conform to all the City ordinances and regulations and go forward with this thing. I don't think we can figure it otherwise. Ms. Smiley: This is more of a procedural thing. Could we table it until some other things are settled? Mr. Morrow: Well, tabling is always in order; however, it appears to me, at lead in my mind, that he has an immediate security problem, and Lord knows how long it would take to clear up some of these other issues maybe the Commission is concerned with. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Mr. Morrow: You can table it at any time, but we'll see what the Commission feels. My point was that Mr. Martin has a problem over there with security and he's trying to rectify it. If there's any other concerns, I'm not sure when we could gel the answers or whether it would even impact this petition as long as it goes to February26, 2013 25652 the Zoning Board of Appeals and of course goes to the City Council. Ms. Smiley: Can I ask one more question? Say the denying doesn't go through. Could we do an alternative that offers the wrought iron fence and the door swinging in and take care of some ... Mr. Morrow: If the denying resolution is not approved, then we'll ask for another resolution and that would be an approving. Ms. Smiley: All right. Thank you. Mr. Bahr: First of all, I'm on the fence, pun fully intended on this. Mr. Morrow: We're on a denying motion. Mr. Bahr: I understand that and I've been on both side of this several times tonight. The approving resolution that we have is a potential just to address some of Mr. Taylor's concerns, does include subject to the petitioner going to the Zoning Board of Appeals for approval. So I think that addresses that, and I think acknowledging all the other issues. Mr. Taylor made great points. The fact of the matter is, I think this would be an improvement to the properly as 9 is now such as 9 is. So I just wanted to stale that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Morrow: Anything else? We'll have the roll call. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor NAYS: Wilshaw, Smiley, Bahr, Scheel, Morrow ABSENT: Krueger ABSTAIN: None Ms. Scheel: The motion to deny fails. Mr. Morrow: Right. Now, do we have another motion? On a motion by Bahr, seconded by Wilshaw, and approved, it was #02-09-2013 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 1989-09-08-30 submitted by Marlin's Yard Accents, L.L.C. requesting to modify the previously approved conditions of Planning Commission Resolution #10-209-89, dated October 3, 1989, in connection with the construction of a parking lot at 12275 Inkster Road, located on the west side of Inkster Road between Plymouth February26, 2013 25653 Road and the railroad right-of-way in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 25, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Plan submitted by Martin's Yard Accents, as received by the Planning Commission on February 1, 2013, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, except for the fact that the enclosure gates shall open inward and not out towards Grantland Avenue; 2. That this approval is subject to the petitioner being granted a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals to erect a fence within a front yard, as well as maintain the storage of materials within that area, and any conditions related thereto; 3. That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated February 14, 2013, from the Assistant Director of Inspection shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department; 4. That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated February 13, 2013, from the Fire Marshal, including those relating to outside storage and use areas for hazardous materials, shall be resolved to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and/or Fire Department; 5. That the site's landscaping shall be improved to the satisfaction of the Planning Director and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; and 6. That all other conditions imposed by Planning Commission Resolution #10-209-89, which granted approval to construct a parking lot, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with the foregoing conditions. Mr. Morrow: Is there discussion? Ms. Smiley: Would the maker be opposed to making the fence all of the same material instead of part being wood and part being wrought iron? Mr. Bahr: I am not opposed to that at all. Mr. Morrow: The only thing I would add is that he wants that as part of the security and to shield his yard. February26, 2013 25654 Mr. Bahr: You're right, and this is a classic example where I've been on both sides of this tonight because you're right. He did bring that up. Mr. Morrow: Well, its up to the Commission. I'm only pointing that out. Mr. Bahr: I understand and I appreciate that you pointed that out. I actually am not in favor of adding that because I understand his reasoning for wanting to do it, and if its an issue, I think the Zoning Board of Appeals can lake care of that. I'm willing to be corrected on this if somebody thinks I'm thinking the wrong way. Mr. Taormina: It sounds like it's predicated on the Zoning Board of Appeals in fact granting the variance for the storage in the yard area as well. So I would suggest that the maker of the motion allow item (2) that we expand that to include the storage within that area of the front yard because that is something that was noted by the Inspection Department as not allowed, and to the extent that's not permitted within the front yard area, then it's going to have to be approved by the Zoning Board of Appeals as well. Again, R's predicated on them approving that. Mr. Bahr: Yes, I'd be in favor of that. I guess I wouldn't be in favor, at this point, of mandating the steel fence all the way around. Mr. Morrow: is that where you're coming from? Mr. Taormina: Where I'm coming from is if the storage is rejected by the Zoning Board of Appeals, then there is no need for an obscuring fence around that area, maybe no fence at all. I don't know what the need for the fence is at all. Mr. Bahr: So you're saying, okay, the storage issue is subject to the Zoning Board of Appeals, and if they would not include that, then there's no need for the wooden fence, which I agree with that. So what we would need to add to this, is what? What do you suggest? Mr. Taormina: We'd have to add to section two that R's subject to the Zoning Board of Appeals approval of the fence as well as the storage of materials within that area. Then theyll have to sort it out. If they determine that vehicles and equipment can be stored in that area, then I guess they would establish what is the most appropriate means by which to enclose that area. Mr. Bahr: Okay. I'm fine with adding that to number two. February26, 2013 25655 Mr. Morrow: Yes, if we can spell that out so the Zoning Board of Appeals knows where we're coming from. Mr. Wilshaw: If the maker of motion would be so inclined, there was no reference in the approving resolution to any landscaping. Mr. Martin did indicate that he would be willing to work on some improvements in landscaping. We already have I think just about every other department in the City has to approve this thing at this point, so we may as well add something along the lines of landscaping that would satisfy the Planning Director, some landscaping improvements that would satisfy the Planning Director. Maybe some additional plantings and so on. Mr. Bahr: I'm certainly fine with that. Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Mr. Morrow: And you're the supporter aren't you? Mr. Wilshaw: I am not. Am I the supporter? I am. Well, then I support that. I support my own motion. Mr. Morrow: There was a discrepancy. We didn't know if @ was you or Ms. Smiley. Okay. Anything else? Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Chair, just a brief comment. I kind of already said @ but I'll sort of reiterate. In no way do I want to try to impede Mr. Martin's ability to be successful in this location and secure his own property. I think his fence is a decent request, although I do think he has, and I think he realizes this, that he has a very long road ahead of him and sort of a tall standard in which he's going to have to meet by getting all these different folks, particularly the Zoning Board of Appeals, to approve it. So by virtue of the fact that if we do approve this tonight, he is not being necessarily granted what he may want as the final product. Mr. Morrow: I think he understands that. If we're all set, I'm going to ask for the vole. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Bahr, Wilshaw, Smiley, Scheel, Morrow NAYS: Taylor ABSENT: Krueger ABSTAIN: None February26, 2013 25656 Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. It is going to the City Council with an approving recommendation. Mr. Taylor: It doesn't have to go to the City Council, does it? Mr. Taormina: It does not. Mr. Morrow: Oh, it doesn't? It goes directly to the Zoning Board of Appeals. Mr. Wilshaw: Its still a long road. It is. Good luck. ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1,039" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 1,035'h Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on January 29, 2013. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was #02-10-2013 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 1,035th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on January 29, 2013, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor, Smiley, Bahr, Wilshaw, Scheel, Morrow NAYS: None ABSENT: Krueger ABSTAIN: None Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 1,036'" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on February 26, 2013, was adjourned at 10:21 p.m. CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Lynda L. Scheel, Secretary ATTEST: R. Lee Morrow, Chairman