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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2010-07-20MINUTES OF THE 998m PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, July 20, 2010, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 998th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members present: Ashley V. Krueger Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow Lynda L. Scheel Carol A. Smiley Gerald Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Mr. Mark Taormina, Planning Director, and Ms. Margie Watson, Program Supervisor, were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on lonighfs agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a pefifion is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has len days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these pefifions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. Mr. Morrow: I want to congratulate Ashley Vartoogian on her marriage and I wish you happiness for the rest of your life. We will now refer to you as Mrs. Ashley Krueger. Ms. Krueger: Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: We will now begin the public hearing portion of our agenda July 20, 2010 25391 ITEM #1 PETITION 2010-06-02-12 DUNKIN' DONUTS Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2010-06- 02-12 submitted by Jeffery A. Scott Architects requesfing waiver use approval to add drive-lhru facilities to an existing restaurant (Dunkin' Donuts) at 19010 Middlebelt Road, located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between Clarila Avenue and Seven Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 12. Mr. Taormina provided background on the item and presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 29, 2010, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above referenced petition. The legal description provided does match the legal description we have on record for 19010 Middlebelt, but it does not close properly. There is a 5.48 feet in 5,000 feet closure error. The bearing of the north property line or south property line is wrong. (They should match.) We cannot determine the comect bearing through our records, a surveyor is required. The address according to our records is 19010 Middlebelt Road." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated July 13, 2010, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a drive-thm for the above-mentioned Petition 2010-06-02-12. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Earl W. Fesler, Sr. Fire Inspector. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated July 12, 2010, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Dunkin Donuts, located at 19010 Middlebelt We recommend that a pedestrian crossing sign be affixed on the northern most exterior wall just west of the drive-thru window. This will help with the pedestrian traffic coming out of the establishment, walking to the north parking spaces." The letter is signed by John Gibbs, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated July 16, 2010, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of June 21, 2010, the above- referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) Access to the dumpster is through the proposed drive thru lane. Servicing would have to be accomplished during off hours, but not between 11.00 p.m. and 7.00 a.m. (2) A minimum of a 15 foot radius for the curve of the drive thm lane is required Jury 20, 2010 25392 where only a 12 foot radius is proposed. This may be waived by a super majority vote of Council. (3) A bypass lane is not provided for the drive thru lane. This may be waived by a super majority vote of Council. (4) Parking spaces designated for drive thm patrons are to be provided in addition to the number required number of parking spaces or waived by a super majority vote of Council (5) A variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required to permit the excess number of wall signs and square footage proposed. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions of the staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner here this evening? We will need your name and address for the record please. Marsha Butkovich, Jeffery A. Scott Architects, 32316 Grand River, Suite 200, Farmington, Michigan 48336. Good evening. Joining me tonight is Kevin Dalpiaz with Dunkin Brands and Vijay Patel, who is the franchisee for the location. If we can answer any questions that you have from the study meeting, we would be happy to do that. There is a real push right now for the Detroit area to bring Dunkin' Donuts' image into the 21 n Century to give it a new look. The existing building is very tired. The roof structure that's there now, we'd like to get rid of that. Its old and tired looking, and we'd like to give it a fresh look. To add a convenience for the customer, we'd like to add a drive-lhru window, which is standard at most Dunkin' Donuts locations. If we can answer any questions for you, we'd be happy to. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Commission, any questions of the petitioner? Ms. Smiley: Have you thought about the signage? You're way over on your signage. You have a couple other problems, I can see. But the signage thing, do you really need that coffee cup? I saw it on the new pictures. Actually, it looks a little busy to me, as one Commissioner. Ms. Bulkovich: Right. In the packet we sent a few photos of some existing stores. It's an acrylic piece that would be applied onto the brick. We have spoken about it since the study meeting, and we're going to be looking at the signage to review that, once again to see what we can do and what's best for the site. July 20, 2010 25393 Ms. Smiley: I really do like the awnings and the lighting. I just think you might have too much going on, and if you know it's Dunkin' Donuts, I dont know if you the coffee cup graphic. Ms. Bulkovich: Right. Okay. Ms. Smiley: Mark, are any of the parking spots the right size, Mark? Mr. Taormina: No. I think all those are shown at 9 or 9.5 feel. Ms. Butkovich: I think those are all existing right now, is what we're trying to work with. Ms. Smiley: I dont have a problem with that, and I can understand why you need the drive-lhru. Everybody likes their hot coffee and as fast as they can have it. The signage I'm finding a little bit too much, as one Commissioner. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Wilshaw: What percentage of the business do you expect will be drive- lhm business versus walk-in? Kevin Dalpiaz, Dunkin Brands Inc., 130 Royall Street, Canton, MA 02021. That varies place to place. On average, it could be somewhere around say 30 percent or 40 percent. It's a tough one to put a number to. Every location is just a little bit different. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. But you're looking at 30 percent to 40 percent drive-lhru? Mr. Dalpiaz: Given some of the locations that are similar to this, that would be in the realm of what we could expect. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. What are the hours of operation of the store currently? Mr. Dalpiaz: They are 24 hours currently. Mr. Wilshaw: They are going to continue to be 24 hours? Mr. Dalpiaz: Al this point, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: And the hours of the drive-thru, are they also 24 hours? Mr. Dalpiaz: They would be. Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Would you be willing to consider not having 24 hour drive-thru and shut down the drive-lhm after a certain period of lime? Mr. Dalpiaz: What was your thought as far as why would you do that? July 20, 2010 25394 Mr. Wilshaw: Because the drive-thru is close to residential properly and if a homeowner was to be sleeping at 3:00 a.m. in the morning and have their windows open because it's a nice evening, they may not want to be woken up by drive-lhru orders. Mr. Dalpiaz: Right. We certainly want to be good neighbors to not only the City but also to the neighbors around us. I don't know if you're privy to the information or not, but we have information from 3M, who is our supplier for the drive-lhm speaker. There is a nighttime and a daytime volume with that. The nighttime volume is 65. Ms. Bulkovich: Its actually daytime volume. From 3M, we have some information. When it first comes in, the daytime volume is at 65 decibels and that's at the speaker. So when you take into consideration the distance, it's at 467 from the speaker post to the building, the adjacent residential building. They're estimating, given the breakdown of decibels, at the daytime level that would be heard at that point would be 45 decibels, which is somewhere between a quiet library and average home noise. Its installed at that 65 decibel setting as the main setting. It's programmed in that it automatically goes down to a preset level, and that's what can be determined atterhours. That can be set at any hour that you want to set it, and that's done at the time of installation. Now, that's not taking into consideration that we're at 45 decibels during the day and that's if nothing was there in between. So we've got the speaker and if nothing was there at the building it would be 45. Now we've got a car and a wall and the road. Every time that sound travels, it dissipates a little bit. 3M came back to us with a comfortable level. At daytime, it would be 45 decibels. If we cross reference your ordinance, I think its permissible sound into adjacent areas, I think is how it's worded, permissible sound levels by receiving land use for residential areas, it's listed from 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. at 55 decibels and 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. 48 decibels. So even during the daytime, we're comfortable that we've met that portion of the sound ordinance. Mr. W Ishaw: Why is it that you think that you need to have a different volume during the day versus at night? Why wouldn't the volume stay the same at a reasonable level 24 hours a day? Mr. Dalpiaz: It has to do with the ambient noise around. Mr. W Ishaw: Okay. Because there's less traffic noise and so on is why you would tum it down at night? July 20, 2010 25395 Mr. Dalpaiz: During the daytime, traffic has peaks and valleys Mr. Wlshaw: Okay. The only comment I have at this point is, sound is very subjective, how it flows, how it bounces off buildings and the walls and so on. You may be able to control the speaker volume of your order board. The thing you can't control is the volume of the people placing the orders. People at order boards have a tendency to yell into them because it's just natural human reaction, I guess, to assume that the people with headsets can barely hear you. The other thing you can't control is the sound of the vehicles themselves. If you have a loud engine or someone running a stereo and someone going through in a pickup truck that has a diesel that's grinding away, which I used to drive, I know what those are like. Again, the people who live next to that in this confined space between your building and the residential are going to have to listen to that as well. So that's my concern, especially in the evening hours and overnight. That's all I have for now. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: I lend to agree with Mr. Wilshaw. I couldn't support this with a drive-lhm in the middle of the night. That is a very fired and old site. There's no question about that as you mentioned. As one Commissioner, I really appreciate the fad of what you're doing to redo and make it alive again. Drive-lhru now, unfortunately, is a way of life for all of us to get through there in a huffy and get your coffee and go in the morning, but I don't think @'s a good idea. If this was a hamburger shop or something like that, it's a little different. This is a coffee and donut shop, which I don't quite understand why people would be going there at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. A resolution that I would ask for, as one of the approving resolutions, would be that the proposed drive-lhru window would have hours of 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight. I think that's reasonable for what you want to do there and reasonable for the neighbors. As Mr. Wilshaw says, unfortunately, the way our decibels are set and everything, the neighbors dont always agree with those decibels. To be a good neighbor as you want to be, I think that would be the best way to try and take care of this problem. You have loo many signs. You don't have enough parking. You're trying to do the best you can with the size site that you have. I also would say that the parking to the north, as part of a resolution, should be strictly for employee parking only. We talked about that at our study session, so that people wouldn't be backing out into the traffic area. Other than that, I think you're doing a great job on what you want to do there. Thank you. July 20, 2010 25396 Ms. Scheel: I just have a quick question. Can you tell me how long you've been at this location? Vijay Palet: I've been there eight and half years. Ms. Scheel: The original Dunkin' Donuts has been there for eight years? Mr. Palet: Dunkin' Donuts has been there, I think, 30 years. A very long time. Yes. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Krueger: I was just wondering how much of your business is in the evening hours at this particular location. Mr. Morrow: Could we have your name and address for the record? Vijay Patel, 19010 Middlebell Road, Livonia, Michigan. I'm a fmnchisee. Along with this location, I have four other locations in Livonia, Westland and two in Redford, a couple with drive-lhrus, a couple without drive-lhms. I have some experience with what we have out here. It does make sense just to gel my opinion on that site. What was the other question? Ms. Krueger: My question was, what percentage of your business is in the evening hours? Mr. Patel: We do a majority of the business in the morning. wouldsay 60 percent of the business is done in the morning. The rest throughout the day, that includes night as well. Another 30 percent up to 10:00 p.m. or 11:00 p.m., and the rest is at night. We do have people coming in a12:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m. getting coffees. Ms. Krueger: Well, some people do work a Tale shift. Mr. Patel: Absolutely. People work Tale at night and people just out and about doing their stuff at night. Also, if you were to limit hours, we would have to reopen at 5:00 a.m. if you were to do limited hours at night. Ms. Krueger: Okay. One last question. In comparing your stores that have drive-thms and ones that don't, what impact do the ones with drive-thms have on the business? Mr. Patel: I can speak more about this site. I've been there 8.5 years. Considering the economic limes, it's an absolute necessity that I July 20, 2010 25397 have the drive-thru going forward in the future with the investment that I'm willing to make here. It would not be justified without a drive-thm for sure. Without doing a remodel of the store, I don't think I would be in business for very long in the future. Ms. Krueger: Okay. Thank you. That's all. Mr. Taylor: To kind of rebut what he's saying, you know, a person that comes in there at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, certainly could pull in and park and walk in and gel a donut and a cup of coffee. It's not necessary that they have to go through the drive-thru to do that. I understand where you're coming from, but this Commission, if you are approved, is bending over backwards because you should have an exit lane to gel out of the line when people are driving through there. You should have more parking. You're asking for more signage than you really need. So what we're asking for is to be a good neighbor to those people who are in the apartment buildings next to you. Even though you have a wall there, sound carries over walls. We found that out. I think there's got to be a Iittie give and take here for what you want to do and what the Commission would like to do. Thankyou. Mr. Patel: One comment to that is, regardless of where you come down to at the end of the day, I'm sure they're going to help me out coming up with the best plan. One of the reasons we're doing a drive-thm is so we can slay open 24 hours without the risk of any security reasons. If only the drive-thm is open, what we could do at night, usually, at a drive-thru location is close the front lobby after, let's say, 11:00 p.m. or midnight. That way it prevents any security reasons, anything that might happen at night. Mr. Taylor: Like I say, there's give and take in everything that we do. Mr. Patel: Sure. Ms. McDermott: I just wanted to elaborate a little further on what Mrs. Smiley said about the signage. I agree, it looks very busy. Did you say that you would be willing to eliminate the large coffee cup graphic? Mr. Dalpaiz: Al this point, the coffee cup is really what we consider wall art. Any of the signage, we're going to need to go in front of the zoning variance board. We'll certainly lake all comments into consideration if we need to go in front of zoning. July 20, 2010 25398 Ms. McDermott: Mr. Taormina, didn't we say that it is actually considered a sign even though they're considering it art? Mr. Taormina: This would be considered a sign. That is correct. Ms. McDermott: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion would be in order. Ms. Krueger: I'd like to make a motion to table this to see if they can come up with a better plan that improves the parking situation, potentially improves the drive-thm access and also the signage. On a motion by Krueger, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, it was #0748-2010 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby table Petition 2010-06-02-12 submitted by Jeffery A. Scott Architects requesting waiver use approval to add drive-thru facilities to an existing restaurant (Dunkin' Donuts) at 19010 Middlebelt Road, located on the east side of Middlebell Road between Clarita Avenue and Seven Mile Road in the Northwest 114 of Section 12, which property is zoned C-2, until the next Regular Meeting of the Planning Commission on Tuesday, August 10, 2010. Mr. Morrow: Mark, what is the date of our next study session? Mr. Taormina: The study meeting is next Tuesday, July 27. We will have a week off for the election and the next time the Commission convenes for a voting meeting would be on Tuesday, August 10. It would really be tabled until August 10, but the study session is next Tuesday. Mr. Morrow: Would the maker and supporter of the motion want to enter that date? Ms. Krueger: Yes, that's fine. Ms. McDermott: Yes. Mr. Morrow: I guess you heard that the Commission wants to lake a further look and discuss this again. So we will have the study session July 20, 2010 25399 next Tuesday in the conference room on the fifth floor. Thank you for coming tonight. We'll see you next week. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted ITEM #2 PETMON 2008-09-01-07 DAIRY QUEEN Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2010- 06-02-13 submitted by Dairy Queen requesting waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant with drive -up window facilities at 37405 Ann Arbor Road, located on the southwest corner of Ann Arbor Road and Newburgh Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 31. Mr. Taormina provided background on the item and presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Is there any correspondence? Mr. Taormina: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated June 29, 2010, which reads as follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. The legal description provided does match the legal description we have on record for 37405 Ann Arbor Road, but it does not close property. The address according to our records is 37405 Ann Arbor Road." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated July 14, 2010, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for the above-mentioned Petition 2010-06-02-13. The Livonia Fire Prevention Bureau opposes this development. Minimum turning radius of 53' wall to wall and inside turning radius of 296" cannot be met. Access around building cannot be provided for emergency vehicles. This building has no suppression systems and is already inaccessible on one side." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated July 2, 2010, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in connection with Dairy Queen, located at 37405 Ann Arbor Road. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by John Gibbs, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated July 16, 2010, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of June 21, July 20, 2010 25400 2010, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The dumpster is located in the proposed drive thru lane. Servicing would have to be accomplished during off hours, but not between 11.00 p.m. and 7.00 a.m. The petitioner does not indicate any parking spaces beyond the drive up window as designated for use of drive up window patrons. (2) A turning radius of a minimum of 15 feet for any curve in the drive up window train lane shall be provided or must be waived by a super majority of Council. (3) Tenant space will be required to meet all current barrier free codes. This will be addressed further at the time of our plan review if the project moves forward. (4) A bypass lane is not provided for the drive thru lane. This may be waived by a super majority of Council. (5) Test results driving normal vehicles were poor trying to make this tum and avoid hitting the building. We believe it to be problematic. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for the staff? Ms. Scheel: I just want to go back to the letter from the Department of Public Safety where they stated that the Livonia Fire Prevention Bureau opposes this development. They're talking about a turn radius. Was that the one at the top? So no matter what plan was submitted they just don't like this layout for this development? Mr. Taormina: I don't know. I'd have to speak with them. I think what they're indicating here is that the design of the drive-thru, as well as the existing condition on the west side of the building, limits their ability to access two sides of the building. They currently cannot access the west side of the building. This would severely restrict their ability to access the south side of the building. That's how I read the letter. I did not discuss this with them. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: Just one brief question. The plan that talks about the sign on the building refers to the standing seam metal roof being painted behind the sign itself, not unlike the drawing we received here in our package. Do you know if essentially painting across a standing seam metal roof for the entire width of this building, is that considered part of the sign or is that not? July 20, 2010 25401 Mr. Taormina: No, it would not be considered part of the sign. I think you're referring to this, and I'm not sure what this particular graphic shows. But if they wanted to repaint a small portion of the mansard roof, we would not look at that as being part of the sign. We would only look for the logo. This plan here shows the actual sign package. This element that would contain blue, that would not be measured as part of the sign area. Mr. Wlshaw: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Mr. Taormina, I'd like to just clear up the one from the Inspection Department, Item #5, "test results driving normal vehicles were poor trying to make this tum and avoid hitting the building. We believe it to be problematic." Was that based on the latest plan with the parking gone? Mr. Taormina: No. You can't test it based on the latest plan for the simple reason that they haven't made those modifications. How the latest plan differs from the plan you reviewed at the study session is that it moves the dumpsler from right here to a little bit further north right in the corner behind the building, thereby increasing this turning radius slightly. Now whether or not that's adequate to accommodate most vehicles is difficult to say. Clearly right now, it becomes very difficult for just a normal vehicle to make that turn. It may not be impossible for some vehicles, but for average vehicles it is difficult. I tested it and I couldn't do it my first time. Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much. Ms. Smiley: How are they going to empty that dumpsler? Mr. Taormina: How are they going to empty it? The truck would have to come back, pick it up and back up. Ms. Smiley: And then back up? Mr. Taormina: Yes. They'd have to back up. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Mr. Taormina: I'm not sure if that's how they currently do it or not. There might be some room for a vehicle to back up here in those spaces and tum around. I'm not sure, but usually it's done during off hours so it doesn't become a problem. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Thank you. July 20, 2010 25402 Mr. Morrow: Is the petitioner here this evening? We need your name and address for the record please. Carol Campbell, Four Oaks, 8881 Newburgh, Livonia, Michigan. I'm the owner of the Dairy Queen, and we're trying to move down the street. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for the petitioner? Mr. Wilshaw: What are your hours of operation going to be al this location? Ms. Campbell: We vary according to the season. Presently, we're 1100 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., but that's partial of the week. We close on Sunday at 10:30 p.m., open at 11:00 a.m. of course. Starting on Thursday, we're open al 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Mr. Wilshaw: What's the reason you're looking to move to this location? Ms. Campbell: Cheaper rent, much cheaper rent. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Sounds good. Mr. Taylor: That was going to be my question, the hours of operation. Ms. Smiley: I was wondering if drive-in was a big thing with ice cream. Ms. Campbell: Drive-in is a big thing with Dairy Queen. Dairy Queen wants you to have a drive-thru. So, when we made the first move in our minds, we thought about it. But when Dairy Queen tried to approve our package, they said, we want you to have a drive- lhm. And I said, well, I don't know if that would be approved because we've gone through everything that you have tonight. But with this latest drawing, it does work. I have to tell you that the drive around does work. So anyway, we're really trying for the drive-thru if possible. Ms. Smiley: I can get the coffee thing, but for ice cream and in the car, that's just not usually something I would try in the car. Ms. Campbell: Oh, really? Ms. Smiley: But that's just me, and also my gmndkids. We need to be out of the car for the ice cream. Ms. Campbell: Oh, it's fun to have everybody in, too, silting at the little tables. July 20, 2010 25403 Ms. Smiley: And the outside seating? I mean, you have a lot going for you at this site. Ms. Campbell: Yes, that would be really nice if we could do that. But the drive- in stores, they double their business. Ms. Smiley: Really? And are you serving food? Ms. Campbell: The only thing we serve are hot dogs and barbeque beef and ice cream. Ms. Smiley: I kind of agree with their assessment that it's very problematic. I will tell you that right now. What time is your dumpster emptied? Ms. Campbell: I really don't know because that's the new place. Ms. Smiley: And they would come in the middle of that driving lane and gel the garbage and then back out? Ms. Campbell: Regardless of where the dumpster is presently, they still have to go forward and then backup all the way down. So really this is going to be a little bit easier for them because they'd have to tum sideways and come back and then make the turn. It's not a huge dumpster by any means. Ms. Smiley: I went out there before this new drawing, and I thought, was that something I could even maneuver in my Edge, and it drives pretty good. Ms. Campbell: I did it about four times today. Ms. Smiley: What were you driving? Ms. Campbell: I drive a Mercury Mariner. I just switched. Ms. Smiley: Well, you're probably a better driver. Ms. Campbell: No, don't say that. I try my best. Mr. Taylor: Well, Mr. Chairman, to follow up if I may? Mr. Morrow: Sure, you can follow up. Mr. Taylor: Is the dumpster moved now? Ms. Campbell: No. No. It's still there. July 20, 2010 25404 Mr. Taylor: Well, how do you know then that you can do that? Ms. Campbell: Because even right now you can do it. Mr. Taylor: I couldn't do it in my car, and Mark Taormina couldn't do it in his car. Ms. Campbell: This is my son. Bill Campbell, Dairy Queen, 8881 Newburgh, Livonia, Michigan 48150. There's parking blocks there which come out, and they vary along the wall. So when you have the extra amount of radius where everything is turned in this new edition of the drawing, you've actually increased the circumference of the radius of that tum. So I think we actually meet the requirement for the City. Mr. Taylor: You think you're going to meet the requirements of the City? Mr. Campbell: Well, for the cad drawing, yes. Its all mathematical. I cant see with my eyes right here. But 16 feet is the minimum radius for the drive-lhru is the City ordinance. Mr. Wilshaw: That's 15 feet. Mr. Campbell: Is it 15? Okay. Ms. Campbell: And lel me just say something else. Dave, my manager behind me, we were just there a couple hours before we came tonight, and there is room for you to gel out. If you didn't want to slay there and order, you could just gel out. You'd have all those cars right there. Oh, I changed my mind. I have to go. I have to pick up my child at wherever, and you can just get out before you make your call in. Mr. Taylor: I guess if you say so, but I sure couldn't make that tum. Ms. Campbell: I know, right now @ is very difficult, but right now, it's not the picture. There's a lot of room back there. If you look your measuring tape ... what did we measure today? Is it 15 feel? Dave Moore, 8881 Newburgh, Livonia, Michigan 48150. The dumpsler right now stops in an area of 17 feel away from the wall. Once you drive past and actually pass the building, by removing the dumpsler and moving it to the corner, it's going to open an additional 17 feet to the wall where you're not able to drive right now. I know everybody that's tried to drive it, you're coming up, what, two July 20, 2010 25405 feel short just about as you turn the corner. You're coming up just your driver's side front bumper. You're kind of looking right at the wall. That's why we went with moving the dumpster to the corner allowing you to drive farther back into that cove to do the curve. Right now I know it's really difficult. The trees and it's just a big pile of dirt back there. Mr. Taylor: I brought that up at the study session. If the dumpster were moved, that maybe you could make it, but we weren't loo sure whether that would work or not. Mr. Moore: Measuring ittoday, measuring justwhalthe dumpster enclosure takes up, the dumpster enclosure is 17 feel off the way. Il takes from that wall forward at 17. By figuring that, that's where we got the extra turning radius because I know the ones you guys had actually had 12 feel originally on the plan. That's where, once we removed it, opened it all up. That's where we got our extra footage. Mr. Taylor: I know that all soft ice cream stores want a drive-thm. There's no question about it. It seems like more people go through the drive-lhm than they go into the store. I've seen that throughout Livonia. Mr. Moore: Truthfully, Canton just re-did theirs. Dairy Queen has the figures. It's about 100 percent increase a year in business. The reason their getting it that way is when it rains, there's still business. Right now, when its not raining, people don't want to gel out of their cars and walk in. Truthfully, we're looking at probably 40 percent drive-lhru business. Because of Family Video and us being there, you're getting out of your car and getting your video. You're going to gel a Dairy Queen. You're already out of your car and parked. The drive-thm pretty much picks up the winter months being that not a lot of people gel out of their car to go get ice cream in the winter. It also has the advantage of being able to add another window. When you've got everybody lined up inside, you now have the ability to run a second and third window. Mr. Taylor: You said you tried to move the dumpster? Its not moved. Mr. Moore: The dumpster is not moved. No construction has even started yet. Mr. Taylor: Well, how do you know then that if you move the dumpster ... are you just going by measurements? Ms. McDermott: That's fine. This is my comment, one Commissioner here, but I would not even attempt to approach something like that. It just looks like it's too busy with traffic and it just looks too miserable. Drive-thru is ease and convenience. I don't want to have to be making a turn like that and I think there's probably a reason why we don't have any like that already in the City. Other than that, I think it's great. I'd love to help you out with the rent for the move, and everybody loves ice cream. I don't have a problem July 20, 2010 25406 Mr. Campbell: The architect with his expertise He can't be here because he's in another city. He assures us with this new radius plan that most vehicles, if not all, will make the turn per your ordinance. Mr. Taylor: Thankyou. Mr. Moore: The biggest way to even check N is if you really push the going back there, if you drive right next to the dumpsler, you can make the turn. I have a Silverado, crew cab. I've done it in the crew cab, but because of the dumpsler area, you really have to hug the dumpsler. You really have to hug the dumpsler in order make the tum. And Silverado's have one of the worse turning radius. It's just a point of right now when you're going out there, I know everybody is worried because there's a pile of dirt, rocks off to the side. You have the dumpsler enclosure. No one is getting even close to it right now. Once we move it, it opens a whole new ballgame. Seventeen feet. Now no one is trying to hug the wall. No one is trying to slay away from anything. That's where this drawing came from. Ms. McDermott: Can I ask a question of Mr. Taormina? Mr. Morrow: Yes, you may. Ms. McDermott: How many other drive-lhrus in the City do we have that have the appearance of something like this with a hairpin tum? Mr. Taormina: I can't think of any. Ms. McDermott: Okay. Well, I just have a comment that the idea of a drive-thru is for ease and convenience. Obviously, it increases sales. But me, personally, as a customer, I have a very small car, a Mustang. If you make it so difficult for me to go through a drive- lhm, even though you're telling me on paper you can do it, if I got to feel that I have to make a hairpin turn to gel into a drive- lhm, I'm probably not coming back. Ms. Campbell: I did it today. Ms. McDermott: That's fine. This is my comment, one Commissioner here, but I would not even attempt to approach something like that. It just looks like it's too busy with traffic and it just looks too miserable. Drive-thru is ease and convenience. I don't want to have to be making a turn like that and I think there's probably a reason why we don't have any like that already in the City. Other than that, I think it's great. I'd love to help you out with the rent for the move, and everybody loves ice cream. I don't have a problem July 20, 2010 25407 with that, but I just think that the configuration is a little too difficult. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: If I could follow up on the issue of the dumpster. You're looking to move the enclosure to this proposed new location. Is this your dumpster or is this the building's dumpster? Mr. Campbell: The building's dumpster. Mr. Wilshaw: So you don't have the option of just eliminating the dumpster enclosure completely? Mr. Campbell: I was told during a pre -study session, before we even drew up the plans and submitted to Planning, that there was a possibility of moving the dumpster to the front, which is roughly to the left over there. That's something that the City could entertain, but this drawing that we submitted, the second one, unfortunately the other one was a mistake, is the main option we'd like to go with. We'd have to build another enclosure up front. So that's a possibility. Mr. Wilshaw: I would say at this point, just based on my experience, I've been involved in traffic issues in the city, traffic management for over ten years prior to being on the Planning Commission, and I've never seen anything like this. I do not think this is good traffic planning on behalf of the City. I do think that this is a nice location for you. Like Mrs. McDermott, I would love to see you go there. I like the patio and the other elements are fine. The thing I cannot support is a drive-lhru in this configuration. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against the granting of this petition? If you do, please come forward and give us your name and address. Kim Peterson, 9817 Newburgh, Livonia, Michigan 48150. 1 live directly next door to where they want to put the dnve-thru in. Since Family Video has moved in, our property values have gone down. We have garbage all the time. I have some slides for you to see. I'm an MSU master gardener. I also have a community garden in my backyard that's 100 percent organic vegetables which is donated to different soup kitchens and charities. Their property is such a mess at this point in the back there. It is overgrown with poison ivy. Family Video has not been taking care of it. The grass is not cul. The dumpster has been overflowing for more than three weeks now. I don't know why the garbage hasn't been picked up. This is the back, totally overgrown. The July 20, 2010 25408 poison ivy has invaded all of our properties. There's garbage everywhere. There's paper cups on our front lawns. We have a 7-11 right down the street. Also, their location at this time is only about three blocks away, so its within walking distance. Its right across the street from Churchill High School. You can see the dumpsler there. I believe with the Commission that there's no way people can make that turn. With me living right next door, can you imagine the traffic coming off of Newburgh and probably piling up the traffic on Newburgh loo. One of my main concerns is the kind of groups that are going to gather because of the Dairy Queen. I have to call the police all the time. There's teenagers hanging out because of Family Video. There's fights that break out at night. We even had a homeless man that was living in the back of the building for a while because it was so overgrown. He was living there for about a month. I found piles of beer cans in my backyard and they didn't even invite me. Its just not a good thing that's going to happen. Its going to draw crowds that will fight. I've had vandalism in my backyard. I've had birdbaths smashed, gales broken. They steal vegetables and frail from my backyard. I don't think a Dairy Queen is going to attract a good crowd in that area. Can I answer any questions? Mr. Morrow: Does anyone care to ask a question? Ms. Smiley: You're opposed to Dairy Queen period? Ms. Peterson: The drive-thru especially because, as you can see, my house is just past that wall. I have to look at that all day long. If they're coming at 11:00 p.m. at night, people going through the drive- lhm, I really don't want it. The lights on the building right now shine right in my bedroom window at night, the security lights. Ms. Smiley: Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: Anything else? Thankyou, ma'am, foryour input. Ms. Peterson: Thankyou. Mr. Morrow: I saw no one else coming forward? Excuse me. Your name and address for the record please. Chin Vong, 9811 Newburgh, Livonia, Michigan 48150. I'm right next to Kim; she is my neighbor. My main concern will be, first of all, the vehicle traffic on Newburgh Road between Ann Arbor Road and Ann Arbor Trail. That's two traffic lights right there. During rush hour, it's very jam packed. Sometimes if I want to gel out of my July 20, 2010 25409 driveway, I have to wail a couple minutes just for the traffic to clear. With the proposed Dairy Queen, if the drive-thm is going to happen, I'm just thinking it's going to make the condition even worse. Right now, in my front yard, I have a lot of 7-11 cups, plastic bags, candy wrappers. There's a 7-11 a couple houses to the right to me. I always have to pick up this trash from them after drinking the big 7-11, and then just throw it right in front of the yard on the sidewalk. I believe the Dairy Queen has the outside patio that they plan, and sometime people just take their cups and walk. By the time they get to my house or Kim's house or the house next to me, they'll be done with the ice cream and it will end up in my front lawn. Other than that, I also think if they have a drive-thru until midnight, because across from Ann Arbor Road, there is a yacht club. They're open pretty late, and normally, at 11:00 p.m. or 12:00 a.m., when they are done drinking and sometimes they got loud motorcycle bikes that try to exit out from the yacht club. Its really, really loud. Because it's so quiet at night, it woke me up and even set off some of the car alarms on the house. I'm not sure if one of the bikers decided to just, after some beer, grab some ice cream and just turn into the drive-lhru. It's going to be even louder with the wall reflecting the noise. That's pretty much it. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anybody else in the audience? I'll now invite the petitioners back up. You may add further comments or respond to some of the things that you've heard. Mr. Moore: The first thing I'd like to answer is the traffic flow after rush hour, the gentlemen said that it always backs up. Generally, our biggest hours, we do pretty much 60 percent of our business after dinner, 7:00 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. at the latest. That's our ice cream time. Everybody goes home, has dinner, and then comes back out for ice cream. As far slaying open later, we do only try to stay open later in the summertime. In the wintertime we close at 9:00 p.m. The reason we stay open a little later in the summertime is for the ones that have late dinners, can't gel home right at 6:00 p.m. to make dinner for the family. So we stay open a little later. Its a very small group of people who come in. We do it basically because it's giving back to the community. We never slay open past 11:00 p.m. Normally, between 10:30 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. is when the kids clean anyway. So it's very rare that we get anybody in that half hour, but it's generally there just in case. As for garbage, right now we already have the same issue as they do. We are at the end of a strip mall. The wind blows the garbage right down in front of us. Even in our own strip center, we have to pick up everybody else's garbage, but we try to gel out and we try to do July 20, 2010 25410 it because it's just trying to clean up. I know personally we go out three times a day just to pick up garbage. We've actually had the City over asking us to help out with the next doors neighbors and farther down to try to pick up behind the dumpsler areas and just to clean up. We had no problem doing that. Mr. Campbell: I'd like to add something. Obviously, we feel for the next door neighbor if we do succeed in getting the drive-thru and the business. Basically, the business has been there, and it's zoned the way its been zoned with the retainer wall as per the City. We could entertain extending the wall or putting some blinds up or making the wall larger to accommodate the next door neighbor. So that way no one would steal her stuff. In our two or three years where we've been at our location, we've never had any altercations or fights or anything. Hopefully, that might even alleviate the current situation that she has going on there because you have more families coming in. I think, bottom line, with the Dairy Queen and the standard that we have for cleanliness and the corporate entity that we have to maintain, I think its a win for the City and a win for the location. I think we just have to gel past the bias of the hairpin because we've been told by the architect and through his expertise, and Dairy Queen is the one that also recommended us putting in the drive-thm because Diary Queen has an image, too, with their drive-thm. If they say it can work, we have to listen to our corporate partner. That's all I have to say. Mrs. Campbell: I feel for the neighbors. I understand. I have a home too and I don't like paper on my lawn or anything to pick up. Same at the Dairy Queen. But right across the street from where we are now, is Churchill High School and a few other restaurants. So they gel the flow of the kids walking. They're just doing their thing, these children. Its unfortunate that they drop things, but they do. So I think no matter where we go, no matter where we live, we're always going to be picking up sluff, but because we are Dairy Queen, we have the pride system. Trust me, like Dave said, like Bill, we have to go and we have to pick up after ourselves. We will not be a Dairy Queen if we do not do these certain things, and they come twice a year. There's shoppers that are just people we don't even know who will come into the store. It's a very lough little business. We try our best. Another reason why we want to move, loo, is we have to redo the whole store. You have to do that every 10 years or so. So because, like I said, hopefully a little cheaper rent down here. We're going to redo this area and it should be really a pleasant place to visit and lake your family. Irest. Thank you. July 20, 2010 25411 Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much Mr. Moore: I have just a couple other things. We had an issue turning in. I don't know if you have the one plan showing the front driveway. Currently, its kind of narrowed out due to the grass on the Newburgh side. What happened was, due to not keeping it up, and I know they probably haven't kept it up as well as they could in the Iasi few or however long they've been there. It is very narrowed out. With the plans, what we have discussed with Family Video, they are widening it to the proper distance for us, making it so you're not bottlenecking when you drive in off the Newburgh entrance. That way, rather than everybody trying to squeeze into a very narrow entrance, we're trying to make it back to the proper size so we don't have that issue anymore. We do also have the Ann Arbor Road entrance and exit so it does make it easy getting in and out with the people. We will also be putting trash receptacles our there for the patio and out front, which we change twice a day, the bagging system. We do them right now just to try to keep the garbage flow down. The other thing, putting the drive-thru aside, we all know that something has to be done to the back dumpster area. What we had planned for the dumpster area, if we could get the drive- thm, there was going to be a full new dumpster enclosure. To meet Dairy Queen requirements, it must be enclosed and kept nice. So we have to put two fenced doors on that are vinyl. It will all be enclosed. It will meet our requirements. We have to go with a little larger dumpster so we don't have the overflow problem. We also have to have the pest controller come in to double check to make sure we don't have rodents or anything else that could accumulate out there. So we do have a pest control system in place. The excess properly back there, what we were trying to do with Carol. She loves garden as well. We were going to plant a nice garden back there. That way it brought a little something else to the site. You've seen the pictures. Its overgrown. I was back there today. It is out of control. We've had the same issue with the gentlemen sleeping behind the dumpster. We've caught him out behind ours down there. We're as nice as possible. We have the phone number to the authorities, and they do try to take him to the shelter whenever we can call them. We just tryto give back. As far as the garbage in the yard, if any of the neighbors, and truthfully, once we move, I have no problem sending the kids down. Right now, just to keep up with ours, we have a restaurant next door and a smoke shop next door to them. On the other side, we sit next to an empty building. I have no problem sending the kids down to clean up those areas. We clean up the yard and stuff July 20, 2010 25412 like that. If the neighbors ever have a problem, all they have to do is let me know. I have more than enough kids. We lake the garbage down and try to help them clean up. It's all primarily families that we have, so generally that doesn't happen, but on the occasion that we get the high school kids or something like that, we try to tone them down a little, but high school kids will be high school kids. I believe Iasi year we had them putfing chairs in front of the doors and dumpslers in front of the doors so that we couldn't gel out the front door. It always will happen; pranks will happen. But we just try to maintain it the best we can. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. You mentioned a couple things, redoing the dumpsler area. The City does have guidelines for dumpster areas. Also, you mentioned widening the ingress and egress on the Newburgh side. Mr. Taormina, would that involve any type of Wayne County approval? Mr. Taormina: Newburgh Road is under City jurisdiction. Permitting would be through the City. Mr. Morrow: So they could work with the City in that regard. Mr. Moore: That's all being done by Family Video. Its in our contract that if we move down there, they are to do this. I believe the actual road, where it actually meets Newburgh, is actually fine. What it is, they've let the grass overgrow. They never bothered, whoever built it, never bothered pulling in the actual larger opening once you leave Newburgh. So basically, it's actually just the cosmetic fill making it work, taking away the grass and adding the blacktop like it should have been done. Mr. Morrow: Oh. I see. Mr. Moore: There are certain things we like to see too because we like to see the yard kept up as well and, as the neighbors have said, Family Video probably has not been doing the job that they need to be doing with it. We addressed that in our actual lease with them being prior to us moving. These things have to be met in order move. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Well, thank you very much. I don't see any other questions of the petitioner. On that basis, I will close the public hearing and ask for a motion. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Scheel, and unanimously adopted, it was July 20, 2010 25413 #07-49-2010 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on July 20, 2010, on Petition 2010-06-02-13 submitted by Dairy Queen requesting waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant with drive -up window facilities at 37405 Ann Arbor Road, located on the southwest comer of Ann Arbor Road and Newburgh Road in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 31, which properly is zoned C-2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2010-06-02-13 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That drive -up window facilities are not approved with this request for a full service restaurant; 2. That the Site Plan marked C101 dated July 14, 2010, as revised, prepared by DTS Architects, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That the maximum customer seating count shall not exceed a total of thirty-eight (38) seals, including twenty-six (26) interior seats and twelve (12) outdoor patio seats; 4. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor patio area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 5. That the three walls of the trash dumpster area, whether it is relocated or not, shall be constructed out of the same brick used in the construction of the building or in the event a poured wall is substituted, the wall's design, texture and color shall match that of the building and the enclosure gates shall be of solid panel steel construction or durable, long-lasting solid panel fiberglass and maintained and when not in use closed at all times; 6. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition, and any additional signage shall be separately submitted for review and approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals; 7. That no LED lighthand or exposed neon shall be permitted on this site including, but not limited to, the building or around the windows; 8. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for; and July 20, 2010 25414 9. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance No. 543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval by the City Council, and unless a building permit is obtained and construction is commenced, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 10.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Mr. Taylor: To the petitioners, you've heard the motion without the drive- lhru facility. Can you operate without a drive-thru facility? Mr. Campbell: Yes. The question that may arise if Dairy Queen comes back to us, is there a future way we can come back, like you did with the Dunkin' Donuts. Is there a way we can come back and rework the plan if there's any recommendations from this Commission? Mr. Taylor: If the whole area was cleaned up back there, and the dumpster was moved and everything was looking like it should look there, there's a possibility. If you did that before you got before the Council, if this is approved, then it may enhance you to be able to put the drive -Ohm in. I know you need a drive-lhru. I know that. Mr. Campbell: Thankyou. Mr. Moore: I had one question. July 20, 2010 25415 Mr. Morrow: I'm sorry. The public hearing has been closed. Right now we are deliberating. Is there any other discussion? Mr. Wilshaw: If the maker of the motion would be willing to consider adding a condition that the dumpsler enclosure area would have to be masonry with the gale. Basically, its already what they're proposing to do, but at lead have it in the resolution because there's nothing mentioned in our resolution about the dumpster enclosure area and the condition of it. Ms. Smiley: I thought they had to automatically, don't they Mark? Mr. Taormina: It has the masonry enclosure. If I understand what Mr. Wilshaw is referring to, if it is, in fad, relocated, that it fully complies with all of our standards with respect to dumpster enclosures, i.e., masonry screening on three sides and either steel or reinforced fiberglass gales. Mr. Wilshaw: I believe currently the enclosure has a fence with slats. It's not in very good condition. Mr. Taormina: So you could say that should be fixed up. Ms. Smiley: So how would you like to word that, Mark? Mr. Taormina: That the enclosure be replaced to comply with today's current standards. Ms. Smiley: Okay. That's fine. Ms. Scheel: I'll support it. Mr. Morrow: The motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. In my opening remarks, understand that there is now an approving resolution that denies the drive-thru. You have len days in which to appeal this decision in writing to the City Council. Al that time, you could appeal our decision as it relates to the drive-lhm or any other facets to it, but it must be within 10 days in writing. City Council will be the ultimate decision -maker as it relates to the waiver and the restaurant. July 20, 2010 25416 ITEM #3 PETITION 2010 -06 -SN -03 COSTCO WHOLESALE Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2010- 06 -SN -03 submitted by Costco Wholesale requesting approval for additional wall signage for the commercial building at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile Road and Eight Mile Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 6. Mr. Taormina: This is a request for additional identification wall signage for the Costco located on the east side of Haggerty between Seven and Eight Mile Roads. This store currently has two primary identification wall signs in addition to two other smaller wall signs that identify the tire sales operation. All four of these signs are painted on the building. The proposed additional sign would be identical to the existing identification signs, both in appearance and size. The building does have exposure to Haggerty from the west as well as 1-275 to the east. This is C-2 zoned property. With frontage on two major thoroughfares, Costco is allowed to have two wall signs in addition to a ground sign. In terms of what the ordinance allows, in this particular case, along the west elevation they would be allowed one sign that would be equal in area to the length of the building, and then they would be allowed a second wall sign equal to half that area. This frontage is about 440 square feet, so they would be entitled to one sign here of 440 square feet. They would be allowed a second wall sign on the east elevation equal to about 220 square feel. What they have instead are four wall signs. There's one on the north elevation that's about 274 square feet. They have one of equal area, 274 square feel, located on the east elevation facing the highway. These are the two main signs. These are the ones that identify Costco Wholesale. Then there are some smaller signs on the north elevation that identify the tire installation and tire sales. Altogether, that signage totals about 620 square feet. What they are asking for is to add one more sign. It would be a 274 square fool sign. It would be generally the same size and appearance as the other two main signs that are on the north and east elevations, and they would add the new sign to the west elevation facing Haggerty Road. This is what the sign would look like. You can see a portion of the sign that presently is on the north elevation of the building. They also have photographs that show what the facade looks like on the west elevation, which is where the new sign would be placed. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there any correspondence? July 20, 2010 25417 Mr. Taormina: There is one item of correspondence from the Inspection Department, dated July 16, 2010, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of June 30, 2010, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. A variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals would be required for the excess number of wall signs and square footage. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, I'll go right to the petitioner. Is the petitioner here this evening? We need your name and address for the record. Robert Lemere, Administrative Manager, Costco Wholesale, 20000 Haggerty Road, Livonia, Michigan 48152. I've worked here for about 12 years. Mr. Morrow: Thank you very much. Would you like to add anything? Mr. Lemere: Yes, I would. We would be willing to bring the signs down to scale. They would be about 75 percent of what they are now. They are 30 by 8, which would bring it down to 22 by 6. They would be consistent from one comer of the building to the other. Mr. Morrow: All three signs? Mr. Lemere: The one facing 1-275, no. We will leave that one as is, and we'll make the two consistent on the front side. Mr. Morrow: On the south and the west. Mr. Lemere: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Any questions of the petitioner? Mr. Taylor: Could we have those sizes again, please? Mr. Lemere: Currently, they are approximately 30 by 8, and we will bring them down to scale to 22 by 6. They are currently painted on the building. They do have a new sign that is metal, and we would be willing to go that route also. Mr. Taylor: So you would take the paint off this one? Mr. Lemere: Correct. The signs would be more modern. July 20, 2010 25418 Mr. Taylor: Thats for sure. That Costco is extremely busy. Why do you feel you need another sign on the west side? Mr. Lemere: If you look at the map on the property line, if you're going down Haggerty Road, you don't have the view of the building until you pass our center entrance. Our corporate office fell that if we had an additional sign that would help our business. Mr. Taylor: How can you help your business? You cant get in the parking lot now. Mr. Lemere: There are busier buildings. Mr. Taylor: I understand. That's a step forward, though, because I could tell you that I, for one, was not in favor of you putting up another sign, but reducing the size of the sign and modernizing it, kind of makes me change my mind a bit. Do you have a rendering of the sign? Mr. Lemere: I do not. I can gel one for you, but I do not have one right now. Mr. Taylor: Unfortunately, we have to vole tonight. Ms. Smiley: Did you ever consider putting the sign on the thing that curves around the front? Mr. Lemere: The thing that curves around the front is aesthetic as opposed to ... I see what you're saying. No, we haven't. I guess it just never crossed our mind. Ms. Smiley: I'm a big fan of your Costco and I'm there all the time. I guess I never had a problem finding it, obviously. That would make it visible from all sides. Mr. Lemere: Correct. If you notice on the west side of the building, there is nothing notated on the building that says we're Costco, even though you know we're Costco. We've been there for 12 or 13 years. Ms. Smiley: Me loo. I've been there. I'm just saying that if you put the sign on the curvy part ... Mr. Lemere: I dont think there's six fool there and probably the elevation too. The lower you go the less you see from the street. Ms. Smiley: I know what you're saying because when I come down Haggerty, I usually go in where U-M has a thing before. If I July 20, 2010 25419 didn't know where I was going and I purposely made a point of looking now because your sign for Costco is passed that entrance. The monument sign is a ways down. I see where you're going with that. I like the idea of modernizing it and making it smaller loo. Mr. Taylor: Through the Chair to Mark Taormina. Mark, am I figuring this right. It would be about 142 square feet, the new sign, each one? Mr. Taormina: If I can ask a question of the petitioner? Mr. Morrow: Certainly. Mr. Taormina: This is the specification of the sign you originally proposed. You said that the dimensions currently are 30 feel by 8 feel. If I'm reading this correctly, I know it's difficult to see, its 31 feet 4 inches in length and the height of the letters is 8 feel, but that doesn't include the lettering down below, the "wholesale". I'm curious to know what the new sign looks like. When you say it's 22 feel by 6 feet, is that the same dimensions replacing this 31 feet 4 inches by 8 feet. Does it appear the same? Mr. Lemere: We can make it 25 percent smaller. Mr. Morrow: We'll lel you do some deciphering there, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: He'll have to submit dimensional plans. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that any motion you make this evening you may have to specify that the sign be 25 percent smaller for each sign, and we'll verify that when the modified plans come in. Mr. Taylor: I don't see anybody in the audience. I know you were going to ask for comments from the audience. I would ask for a tabling resolution until such time as we can gel new plans. I'm in favor of what you're planning on doing, but we have to see what's going on. Mr. Lemere: I understand. Mr. Morrow: Also how it's calculated as it relates to the "wholesale" that goes along with Costco. Are you offering that as a motion, Mr. Taylor? Mr. Taylor: I'm offering that as a tabling motion, yes. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was July 20, 2010 25420 #07-50-2010 RESOLVED, that the Planning Commission does hereby table Petition 2010-06SN-03 submitted by Costco Wholesale requesting approval for additional wall signage for the commercial building at 20000 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Seven Mile Road and Eight Mile Road in the Northwest 114 of Section 6, until the next Regular Meeting of the Planning Commission on Tuesday, August 10, 2010. Mr. Morrow: We had another tabling resolution earlier in the evening for next Tuesday. Can you pull things together for that? Mr. Lemere: Absolutely. Mr. Morrow: To the maker and supporter of the motion, will that be the date certain? Mr. Taylor: Yes, please. Ms. Smiley: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Add that to the date certain in the motion. The motion passes to table. We will see you next Tuesday so we can get a grasp of the actual size and what it looks like. Mr. Lemere: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Mr. Morrow: Thankyou. ITEM #4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 997m Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Scheel, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 997th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on June 29, 2010. On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Wilshaw, and adopted, it was #07-51-2010 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 9W Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on June 29, 2010, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following July 20, 2010 25421 AYES: Smiley, Wilshaw, McDermott, Taylor, Scheel NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Krueger, Morrow Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. Mr. Taylor: Before we close, for many years we had a fellow in the Channel 8 booth working for the Council and for the Planning Commission, John Fancy. He has a problem right now with illness and I'd just like to wish him the best through the Planning Commission. Mr. Morrow: Thankyou, Mr. Taylor. That's very kind. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 998th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 20, 2010, was adjourned at 8:37 p.m. CIN PLANNING COMMISSION Lynda L. Scheel, Secretary ATTEST: R. Lee Morrow, Chairman