HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2009-07-14MINUTES OF THE 983"° PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, July 14, 2009, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 983d Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall,
33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. Ian Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members present: Deborah McDermott Carol A. Smiley Joe Taylor
Ashley Vartoogian Ian Wilshaw
Members absent: R. Lee Morrow Lynda Scheel
Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; and Ms. Marge
Watson, Program Supervisor; were also present.
Acting Chairman Wilshaw informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's
agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation
to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the
final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If
a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become
effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission
and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling.
The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying
resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the
outcome oflhe proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 2008-08-02-26 VERIZON WIRELESS
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2008-08-
02-26 submitted by FMHC Corporation, agents for Verizon
Wireless, requesting waiver use approval to construct a wireless
communication support structure (120 fool high monopole) and
equipment shelter within Fairway Park, located north of Five
Mile Road and east of Levan Road (adjacent to Idyl Wyld Golf
Course) in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17.
July 14, 2009
25288
Mr. Taormina
presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Wilshaw
Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak:
There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated June 23, 2009, which reads as
follows: "In accordance with your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above -referenced petition. The legal
description of the leased parcel is in need of revision. More
specifically, the course prior to the point of beginning bearing
should be N 00' 14'34" E, 100 feet not S 00' 14'34" E 100 feet.
The address according to our records is 35800 Five Mile Road,
not 35550 Five Mile Road. We trust that this provides you with
the requested information. Please feel free to contact this office
if you have any questions." The letter is signed by Kevin G.
Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from
the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated June 18, 2009, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval
to construct a wireless communication support structure and
equipment shelter within Fairway Park, located north of Five
Mile Road and East of Levan Road in the Southeast X of
Section 17. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter
is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter
is from the Division of Police, dated June 16, 2009, which reads
as follows: "1'm Joseph Sellinger, Communications Supervisor
for the Livonia Police Department 1 find no technical issues to
deny the installation of the 120' tower and its equipment
proposed by FMHC Corp. at the Southwest 1/4 of Section 17.
Their equipment will not cause any interference issues with any
of our City's Public Safety Communications. 1 would like to
remind the Commission that St. Mary's Hospital has medical
emergency Flights routinely and suggest tower lighting be
considered." The letter is signed by Joseph Sellinger,
Communications Supervisor. The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated June 22, 2009, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request of January 10, 2009, the
above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department
has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by
Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the
extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw
Are there any questions for the staff? Would the petitioner
please approach? Please start with your name and address for
our record and then add anything you'd like to this item.
July 14, 2009
25289
Leland Calloway, FMHC Corp., 24445 Northwestern Highway, Suite 225,
Southfield, Michigan 48075. 1 represent FMHC Corporation,
agent for Verizon Wreless. Our address is 23100 Providence
Drive, Southfield, Michigan 48075. 1 guess I'll start by
addressing the Engineering Department's report. We will be
happy, if the legal description is incorrect, to fix that and to fox
any address issues pertaini ng to the site. I think Mr. Taormina
did an excellent job in describing the site to you, so I will talk
about the things that I think he did not cover. The reason why
we need this site and how this site kind of came about, and
also, I'm sorry, I'd like to introduce Rob LaBelle, who is counsel
for Venzon Wireless, and he can answer some additional
questions. We were given kind of a quarter of a mile by quarter
of a mile area right at Levan and Five Mile Road to find a site. If
you know anything about that area, it's just about small
businesses, small lots for commercial businesses and a lot of
residential with two large parcels, one being Idyl Wyld and the
other one being the park that we're proposing and the school
property. With having those limitations, what we tried to do was
we tried to find a compromise, find a site that would be kind of
hidden from the residences but would also kind of blend in as
much as possible with the current uses in the area. This is what
we call a capacity site. It's not that there's not coverage in the
area; it's that with the amount of housing in the area and the
amount of traffic along Five Mile Road and Newburgh and all
around, there's not enough capacity with our current sites to
cover all of the people that want service in the area. So that's
the reason why we need this site. We're not the only ones who
need this site. I think the City has been contacted and we have
been contacted also by AT&T and TMobile saying that if we
ever get this site approved, they are interested in going on the
lower. They already have collocation applications in with us.
That's basically the reason why and the need for the site. The
additional thing that happened in the negotiations was that the
storage yard came up. I guess that's a plus. This would be a
way to provide revenue for the City for us to help the Parks
Department get a storage yard, which I guess they're in need of.
I think by clustering those uses - there's a building back there
that I guess they use for some kind of ... they have offices and
things there. There's a small storage facility for golf carts and
other equipment that they use on the golf course there, and
there's also a gas station there. So this use wouldn't be
completely inconsistent with what's immediately in that area.
And Mr. Taormina put up the maps for what we call propagation
maps. This is the before map which shows - if you look kind of
in the middle of the map, you'll see a lot of red area and then
yellow and then green. The red area is actually where we would
July 14, 2009
25290
have pretty good coverage. The yellow area is less coverage
and the green is where we don't have very good coverage for
this site.
Mr. Wilshaw: You mean that backwards?
Mr. Calloway:
Oh, I'm sorry. He's right. Green is great coverage, yellow is
worse coverage and red is bad coverage. So if you look in the
middle where we're proposing the site, you see red kind of
around where the site is and then some yellow. And that red is
kind of to the north where there's residential and to tie east,
which on the other side of the golf course is more residential.
But again, we can't really show you capacity needs in a map like
this. What this shows is more coverage. If you go to the after
map, you'll see that the coverage increases greatly. Right
around the site there's a lot of green and almost no red. Where
the red is, is where there's probably topographical issues with
the land so the signal won't gel to those areas as well as the
areas where you see green and yellow. But those have been
lessened quite a bit with the addition of this site. But again,
what I was saying before, is that you can't really see the
capacity issues. We can't show you a map that will show you
the capacity issues, and that's another big problem with this site
is that we dont have enough capacity in the area. Would you
like to add anything?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Please come over to the mike.
Mr. LaBelle:
When we're talking about capacity, we're talking about the
number of, let's call it hits, that an antenna will receive. We may
have an antenna in the location that properly obtains coverage
but if you get enough signals hitting that tower and its antennas,
you'll eventually overload it's capacity to handle them and that's
what's happening here. And the reason, of course, why that's
happening is because the phones are no longer simply voice.
They're in addition to your ability to get ahold of your email, your
ability to be able to text, your ability to send photos, take and
send photos, and on and on and on. These phones are really
no longer phones. They are really personal assistants who
happen to be in the electronic form. The result of which is that
when we try to deal with these sites, and we add sites, in this
case, you see a coverage issue that is handled, but as much
here you see an issue of dealing with the complaints in this area
of persons who are not receiving the ability to use those phones
for everything they are capable of doing, and more and more of
those phones are becoming means by which business gets
done in this area and the United Slates in general. As a result,
we need to be able to address those communication needs as
July 14, 2009
25291
well. So what you see here is a coverage issue being
addressed, but as much as that you see a capacity issue being
addressed as well. That's all I simply wanted to add. I also can
answer any questions in regard to the lease. It hasn't been
signed yet and negotiations are continuing, but to the extent that
there are some issues and questions about that like, for
example, vis-a-vis the shed, the storage area rather, and how
that relates to things and the colocation revenue which the City
will obtain as a result of being the owner of the property, I can
answer those questions as well.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you very much. Are there any questions from the
Commission?
Mr. Taylor:
Yes, the name for the record. Did he give his name?
Robert LaBelle, 32543 Cambome, Livonia.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, sir. Are there any questions from the Commission?
Mr. Taylor:
Yes. While you're up there, what color is this lower going to be
if its put up?
Mr. LaBelle:
Gray, essentially. The color that we end up using in this case is
a color that we have chosen from a long time of experience and
realizing that it blends best with the surrounding environment if
it's gray. I'm sorry to say that in Michigan, gray works better
than blue when you're trying to deal with the issue of trying to be
able to blend it to outside around it. It will blend in with the
surrounding circumstances better that way.
Mr. Taylor:
And I see that you took the recommendation of the Police
Departmentto put a rather non-glanng Iightup?
Mr. LaBelle:
Yes.
Mr. Taylor:
That's for helicopters for Sl. Mary Hospital?
Mr. LaBelle:
We can do. We can put a low wattage light on lop of this thing
in order to do that. We had this discussion in talking about it.
Its a trade off, is what it comes down to. If you put a light on it,
it becomes more visible because you can see the light that's on
it. But at the same time, there is the helicopter traffic. The FAA
is well aware of the helicopter traffic and regulates that as well
from St. Mary's. And any kind of traffic in anything we do in
going forward, we do have to gel FAA approval and they have
already told us they would not require us to place a light on this
for the purpose of helicopter traffic. We can do so if the
Mr. LaBelle: I think that is, in fad, the case. One of the things that I always
bring to these is this. This is about one tenth of the material
that's available on the FCC website dealing with the question of
the safety of towers. If you go on to find those safety issues and
talking about them, the Federal Telecommunications Ad has
actually addressed that from the standpoint of saying what
you're going to be able to do in dealing with this. One at the
things that it does, in fad, do is say that "no state or local
government municipality thereof may regulate the placement,
construction and modification of personal wireless cyper
facilities on the basis of the environmental effects of radio
frequency emissions to the extent that such facilities comply
with the Commission's regulations concerning such emissions"
The reason why is because they have determined long ago that
a tower, at least the lower itself, poses no safety hazard. The
actual electro volt emission at ground level is less than one one -
millionth of an electro volt once you gel down to that point. It is
thousands of times below the safety limits that have been set by
the federal government. The real issue that you're talking about
that has come up in connection is the cell phone itself and
dealing with whether a cell phone when placed next to your
head and the emissions that it might do, the issue has, in fact,
arisen there. So when they're dealing with the lowers
themselves, they have concluded long ago that, in fact, it does
not constitute a safety hazard. In fact, because of the Federal
Telecommunications Act, it actually prohibits a municipality from
using that as a basis to ...
July 14, 2009
25292
Planning Commission would prefer us to do so. What I am
saying, basically, is the FAA has already made a determination
that its not necessary.
Mr. Taylor:
Well, I think because of St. Mary's being that close, and I live
very close to there and I know the helicopters come over my
home and circle around and come back. So it might be a good
idea, I think, to do that.
Mr. LaBelle:
We're willing to do so if we have to in that circumstance.
Mr. Taylor:
I looked up on the internet the safety of cell lowers. That's
always a big thing that has come up with the Council and the
Planning Commission. I guess the jury is still out as exactly
how safe they are. According to the government, they are safe.
But I think there's still some problems going on although we
have schools that have them. They are around hospitals. So I
guess they're not as dangerous as the government has decided
they would be or they wouldn't let them put them around
schools, I would guess anyways.
Mr. LaBelle: I think that is, in fad, the case. One of the things that I always
bring to these is this. This is about one tenth of the material
that's available on the FCC website dealing with the question of
the safety of towers. If you go on to find those safety issues and
talking about them, the Federal Telecommunications Ad has
actually addressed that from the standpoint of saying what
you're going to be able to do in dealing with this. One at the
things that it does, in fad, do is say that "no state or local
government municipality thereof may regulate the placement,
construction and modification of personal wireless cyper
facilities on the basis of the environmental effects of radio
frequency emissions to the extent that such facilities comply
with the Commission's regulations concerning such emissions"
The reason why is because they have determined long ago that
a tower, at least the lower itself, poses no safety hazard. The
actual electro volt emission at ground level is less than one one -
millionth of an electro volt once you gel down to that point. It is
thousands of times below the safety limits that have been set by
the federal government. The real issue that you're talking about
that has come up in connection is the cell phone itself and
dealing with whether a cell phone when placed next to your
head and the emissions that it might do, the issue has, in fact,
arisen there. So when they're dealing with the lowers
themselves, they have concluded long ago that, in fact, it does
not constitute a safety hazard. In fact, because of the Federal
Telecommunications Act, it actually prohibits a municipality from
using that as a basis to ...
July 14, 2009
25293
Mr. Taylor:
I think (hats a good way to talk about it, but a lot of people slill
don't believe that, but that's the way it goes sometimes. How
often would you be going down that cart path to the tower itself
to service it?
Mr. LaBelle:
Al most, once or twice a month. Our service facilities, in terms
of when people go out there and deal with it, its one of our
service members that will go out there. Their main purpose is
simply to deal with the switching equipment. So what they will
do is access the site, gel into the building, make some changes
maybe to the software or maybe change some of the
configuration of some of the switching equipment, and then
they'll leave. In fad, sometimes all they're doing is just
checking to make sure the air conditioning is still working. And
they literally only do that once or twice a month. We've actually
had discussions with the Law Department about that, and we've
agreed within the lease to limit our visits to no more than three
times a month.
Mr. Taylor:
Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, Mr. Taylor. Mrs. Smiley?
Ms. Smiley:
My questions are pretty much answered, but you agreed to a
non -blinking low wattage ...
Mr. LaBelle:
We can do it.
Ms. Smiley:
Okay.
Mr. LaBelle:
I guess what I'm suggesting is that while we can do that, I'm
kind of suggesting that perhaps it wouldn't be a good idea
simply because of the neighbors. I'm not sure that they would
like to see that there but I understand the concern. Like I said,
R's a trade off. In one case, its safety with regard to the
helicopters; on the other side, it's dealing in terms of the
neighbors wanting the light there. You can go both ways on this
easily. What we're willing to do is whatever the Planning
Commission thinks would be the most reasonable thing to do.
Ms. Smiley:
Thank you. I appreciate that and I appreciate your information.
I too have been investigating the safety for people and came up
with the same - probably not nearly as much data as you did,
but the hazard is not actually from the pole itself as much as
from the instrument. Tha nk you very much.
Ms. Malchynski: Okay. My other concern is, you say there is no safety issue, but
if your house was right next to it, how would you feel being 300
feel close to one of these lowers? Do you really feel that is not
an issue? And you say the cell phones ... we do not have
cable and I already notice that if you text in our family room near
the television, the signal goes out. So, is this tower going to
affect our signal because we do not have cable? So we're just
getting normal TV signal. So I dont want it to interfere with that
because I think that's important.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
Ms. Malchynski: And I dont see the problem with getting cell phone usage. It's
four bars at our house. Its four bars by Hoover School and
July 14, 2009
25294
Mr. Wilshaw:
Anybody else? I will talk just briefly about the issue of the light.
That's something that I researched as well since we talked
about it at our study meeting. I spoke with a gentleman up at
the State of Michigan. His name is Mike Ronell. He's with the
Michigan Department of Transportation and Aeronautics
Division. He's responsible for dealing with exactly that issue of
whether obstructions, lowers, and so on, need lights or not. He
said that typically they review any lower that's within a 2510 1
slope from a helipad and they generally recommend a light on
anything that is an 8 to 1 slope from a helipad. So if you do the
math on distance, we would have to have a really, really tall
lower or this would have to be a lot doser to the hospital to be
an obstruction based on that standard.
Mr. LaBelle:
That makes sense. When we make an application to the FAA,
the FAA will contact the local state agencies as well.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. So I just wanted to throw that in for the Commissioners'
benefit. If there's nobody else on the Commission that has any
questions, we can go the audience. We ask that people feel
free to come forward and speak to this petition. We ask that
you please provide your name and address for the record, and
please come forward if anybody wants to speak to this petition
at this time. If you can line up behind this lady, it would be a
little bit faster as well. Good evening. Name and address
please.
Cathy Matchynski, 16124 Golfview. We live directly north of that site, and we'll
see it in our backyard. Our yard backs up to the river. My
concern is, isn't it on a flood plain as well being right next to the
river there?
Mr. Wilshaw:
We can check that and get an answer for you in just a second.
Ms. Malchynski: Okay. My other concern is, you say there is no safety issue, but
if your house was right next to it, how would you feel being 300
feel close to one of these lowers? Do you really feel that is not
an issue? And you say the cell phones ... we do not have
cable and I already notice that if you text in our family room near
the television, the signal goes out. So, is this tower going to
affect our signal because we do not have cable? So we're just
getting normal TV signal. So I dont want it to interfere with that
because I think that's important.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
Ms. Malchynski: And I dont see the problem with getting cell phone usage. It's
four bars at our house. Its four bars by Hoover School and
July 14, 2009
25295
Levan. So I don't see the problem with getting reception. So I
don't see the need for it. If there's no need, then don't put it
there. And the other thing is, why dont you at least put it closer
to Five Mile on the golf course away from the houses and the
school? It's right behind the school. So, that's all I have to say.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you very much. Sir, name and address.
Mike Sykes, 16110 Golfview. I loo live just north of the site. My house has a
southerly view so I'm looking directly at the location where
you're going to place the lower. Nice big family room. Two
story windows. Nice view of the sky until now. Maybe that's
going to change. That's why I'm particularly interested in what's
going on here. A couple of things. As Cathy mentioned, that's
a large park area. Why this lower is being located within 300
feet of property and 400 feel of properly, or 450, I think you
mentioned earlier, when you could place it in the middle of that
golf course and probably be 800 feel or more away from
anybody's properly. This site is chosen and its the minimum
distance allowed by ordinance. My concern is that I plan to live
in Livonia until I die and I plan to live at that location. I don't
know if that's going to happen, but that's what I plan to do. And
looking out my back window, both from my second story office
where I work and my family room where I enjoy life, I'm now
going to be looking at a cell lower and that doesn't please me.
That's not why we bought that location. It's public land. It's
parkland. Its undeveloped. Its wooded. There's a nice creek
that runs through there. It gets used by the neighborhood a fair
amount. Lots of people use that even though it's undeveloped.
Kids play in there. People walk their animals. The other part of
this that's concerning is the converting of that property into
some sort of storage area. The golf course has functioned ...
how long has the golf course been there? Does anybody know?
Mr. Wilshaw: Its been a long time. Mr. Taormina, do you know?
Mr. Sykes: It was before I was born. It has functioned in its capacity as a
golf course without any additional storage required. I dont view
the storage area, which now, if I look at this right based on the
information, is going to be within 300 feet of my house, 125 feet
north of the cell lower site. That's a bunch of trees right now
which provides coverage for the gas station and the storage
area that exists on the golf course. Those trees can't be in the
storage area that you've proposed. So not only do I get the
pleasure of staring at a lower, I get the pleasure of looking at an
open storage area as well to store parked vehicles and golf
course materials. That sounds like piles of dirt and rock and
anything else they might need to use on the golf course, along
July 14, 2009
25296
with cars. That's a less than desirable situation from my point of
view. You mentioned lighting. Boy, if the FAA doesn't say its
needed, I don't want a light on the tower. I mean that's just flat
out ... its probably going to be red, because that's the ... no?
What color would it be, sir?
Mr. LaBelle:
Low wattage while.
Mr. Sykes:
Low wattage while? Operating whenever dark?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Please speak to us. What we can do is, we can ask those
questions.
Mr. Sykes:
Well, I'm speaking to everybody.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay.
Mr. Sykes:
Operating whenever dark. I didn't direct it to anybody in
particular. The point is, it's on when its dark, right? That's from
5:00 at night in the winter until who the heck knows, 9:00 in the
morning. That's not something I want. What is the lighting
going to be for the storage area? Whats the ground lighting
going to be for the maintenance area around the tower and the
open storage area? Am I looking at other lighting that's going to
be impacting? In the winter, that's the biggest issue because
there's no foilage on the trees. So, I understand you showed a
need plot and people are having issues with maybe getting
service at certain times because of the capacity. It looked like
you could move that tower into an area that was further away
from any residence, not just my residence. I think that would be
the direction you would want to go. Access to that can be
maintained. There's multiple golf cart paths so access to the
site looks like its available anywhere on that park lane, meaning
Idyl Wyld golf course. I don't have an objection to having a
lower in principal, generally, in the area. We all benefit from
that, but but it doesn't need to be located as close as it is to
different property areas. And that storage bothers me. I know
you guys think, somebody thinks, it was a good deal to gel that
thrown in as part of this, but Chats just adding insult to injury.
Mr. Taylor:
Mr. Chairman, if I may.
Mr.Wilshaw:
Sure. Goahead.
Mr. Taylor:
I look a golf cart today back there and it's pretty much of a mess
right now, I can tell you. What they're planning on doing is
consolidating that on a pad, more or less. There's equipment all
over the place back there and there's a pile of dirt and mulch
July 14, 2009
25297
and sand. What they'd like to do, and I talked to Tom Walsh
who is a pro at the golf courses, and he said it's going to make it
a lot neater for everybody back there if they could do that. It will
be less dust. They drive now on dust and dirt. And so, it has a
lot of dust going around. If they pave that area, then they won't
create all that dust. I guess my question to Mark, do you know
how tall those trees are right now, through the
Chair? Those have got to be 30- 40 fool trees.
Mr. Taormina:
They're probably 6010 80 feet, on average.
Mr. Taylor:
So half of that lower is going to be almost covered with those
trees. Its very dense back there. I know that. And its kind of
away from the homes from what I could see, and there's not
going to be too many trees that will be taken down. Mark, you
have a plan on just how many there are, dont you?
Mr. Taormina:
This would show the larger trees that might be situated in the
area. I believe there's a couple here. It's difficult to see on this
plan, but I think it does identify the trees that would be removed.
Mr. Taylor:
It's extremely dense back there. I know that. Because I live in
the area, I know there are kids that play back there. My kids
went to Hoover and I know they go back there and play, but this
will be all fenced in obviously. Our storage area where the gas
is has a barbed wire fence on it, and we don't allow barbed wire
fences anymore. I dont why its there, but evidently the City is
not doing what it's telling other people not to do. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Sykes, anything else that you want to address?
Mr. Sykes:
Absolutely. A few of the points Mr. Taylor just made,
respectfully, I've lived there for 15 years or more. I dont think
anybody has complained to me, and I fled no complaints, about
the condition of the materials stored on the golf course. Any
dust issues or any traffic issues. You move into an area like
that. When you buy the home, you see what you're getting. I
am not aware of a dust issue. It may be an issue for the guys
on the golf course. Maybe they don't like the way it looks, but
it's not an issue for at least me, a property owner who is viewing
the golf course virtually every day of the year.
Mr. Taylor:
Well, you could never see where this is anyway. From any of
the homes that I've seen, you couldn't see this area.
Mr. Sykes:
Couldn't see what?
Mr. Taylor:
Where the shed is. You know, there's a shed there now.
July 14, 2009
25298
Mr. Sykes:
I see that clearly in the winter, sir. The foilage drops. I know
exactly where the shed is. I know where the gas station is.
Mr. Taylor:
There's no activity in the winter actually.
Mr. Sykes:
You'd be surprised how much activity there in on a golf course.
That's their maintenance time for trees. There are people there
all year round. There is no dead time on the golf course. There
are no golfers, but that doesn't mean the maintenance crew is
not there.
Mr. Taylor:
I guess we go through this on many items and it all comes back
to, not in my backyard, put it someplace else.
Mr. Sykes:
I'm not saying move it out of that park. I'm saying move it
further away from the homes. You're at a minimum setback
condition. It's 300 feel to the south; it's 450 feel to the north.
The lead it could be is 300 feel. You could put this thing out in
the center. I don't know what the distance would be. But you
could put it out down the middle fairway someplace and it would
be much further away from any residence at that point.
Mr. Taylor:
You're going to have a lot of golfers here pretty soon.
Mr. Sykes:
I'm a golfer, sir. I do not give a ... I don't care if there's a ...
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Sykes, I don't want to get into a debate between the
Commission and yourself. Is there anything else that you'd like
to throw in at this time?
Mr. Sykes:
Yes. I'm aware that if we're going to have that tower there, that
there are things that can be done to address the appearance of
the lower. I'm told they can be made to look like pine trees or
something along that nature. If we're going to have this within
clear site of several homes, I would recommend that we
investigate that route, because if I have to look at it, I'd rather
not look at an austere mono tower. I've seen the pine tree look
from a distance. It looks pretty good. Don't know what it's
going to look like scrutinized everyday for the rest of my life.
Mr. Wilshaw:
All right.
Mr. Sykes:
I think that's, again, if you dont have to have the light, I can't
see putting a light on this thing. As he said, it does draw
attention to things. You light something up at night, you see it
very readily. I know that's the intent of it, right? That's why you
put the light on there. I don't want to look at a light all the time.
July 14, 2009
25299
The storage area is a great concern and that doesn't have to be
coupled to this tower. These are two separate issues that have
been made one. You can have the tower without the storage
area. We're getting both and somehow that was looked at as a
deal sweetener. I dont see it that way. I do have a question.
What is the revenue that the City is going to get from this tower
and rental of the storage area?
Mr. Wilshaw:
That is a question that we cannot answer. There s an
agreement that's being negotiated between Verizon and the City
which would give some sort of revenue, but that's not been
agreed at this time, so we don't know.
Mr. Sykes:
Okay. Is the only use for the storage area for golf course
purposes oris there some other use for that open area as well?
Mr. Wilshaw:
It would only be for the golf course and Verizon would have their
own space where they're going to have a shed for the
equipment for the tower itself.
Mr. Sykes:
Is that storage area being rented in some way? I thought there
was some revenue associated with that. Its only the lower
where there's revenue?
Mr. Wilshaw:
The tower, exactly.
Mr. Sykes:
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
You're welcome. Sir. name and address.
Mark Malchynski, 16124 Golfview. I'm a licensed professional engineer, retired,
Stale of Michigan, in electrical engineering and
communications. We live directly north of the line. The first
lady that spoke was my wife. The concerns I have, and I
apologize, but I cannot see your plan there. I dont know if you
have one that I can see a little bit better. I did a site survey
there today and I guess two things. One, the shed is of much
more concern to me as well, as that area is even closer to our
house than the current shed. And the other thing is that there
are trees that would block the lower. And as far as the light, I
think the light is probably a ludicrous idea. Those trees are over
100 feet tall, Mr. Taylor. I checked them out today. They're
cottonwoods. Can I take a look at that? Maybe I can point
them out to you.
Mr. Taylor: Mr. Chairman, while he's boking, Mark, did I miss something?
They're not building a shed, are they?
July 14, 2009
25300
Mr. Taormina:
Well, I'm not sure what Mr. Malchynski is referring to. If he's
Mr. Taormina:
referring to the equipment building for the Verizon structure,
then that's to the south of the current building. There is no other
building proposed.
Mr. Malchynski:
So its just a storage yard, where they would put aggregate,
sand and then it could blow into our areas there.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Exactly.
Mr. Matchynski:
That kind of disturbs me. If the fence was done right and it was
landscaped or something, then we wouldn't be able to see it as
far as that storage area.
Mr. Wilshaw:
It's possible the storage area, sir, that ... often times you see
Mr. Taormina:
this. They have a three sided structure around aggregate and
other materials to provide for some screening and also to allow
itlo be easier to be loaded on the front end loaders and so on.
Mr. Matchynski:
Living there as I have for 23 years and paying taxes in Livonia, I
have never had a dust problem from the golf course or the
aggregates stored there. It is somewhat unsightly in back,
especially when they park their cars all over by the creek, but
they could park them the other side of the fuel tanks as well.
That's just the choice of the golf course. f I may, if I can have
that other slide up? Can I show you where the large trees are
that you'd be taking out?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Which slide are you looking for? This one? Okay.
Mr. Taormina:
Maybe I can assist him if you dont mind, sir. I think what pu're
referring to are these dots that reference the trees that would
come out. I know it's difficult to see, but I'm going to point to
them. These are the locations of the trees that are within the
lease area and they are identified on the survey. They include
the approximate diameter of the trees as well as a notation as to
the species, the M standing for Maple, the E presumably for Elm
or that could be Cottonwood. These aren't always accurate in
terms of species.
Mr. Malchynski:
To the north of the access road ...
Mr. Taormina:
To the north of the access road, it's the same situation. You
see where the trees have been surveyed, and theyre identified
here by the small black dots.
Mr. Malchynski:
So those will all be removed?
Ms. Wielosinski: A couple concerns I have. Right now, I know you're saying that
they're going to be coming down there once or twice a month for
maintenance. That road is used constantly by vehicles. To add
more vehides in there, I know it's supposed to be a
maintenance road. They speed up and down that road. There
was an accident there last year from someone speeding up and
down the road, and its supposed to be just a back maintenance
exit or entrance in there. Now you've got more cars that are
going to be coming in there. If you're going to be parking more
sluff in the back, same thing. You're going to have more
vehicles up and down that road to gel into it. The other concern
July 14, 2009
25301
Mr. Taormina:
Those are all within the area of improvement, so yes, they
would have to come down.
Mr. Matchynski:
Okay, my concern is ....
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Malchynski, could you please come back to the podium just
so that we can gel you on the microphone so everyone can hear
you? Thank you so much.
Mr. Malchynski:
Okay. On the bottom left, or the southwest corner of that
property ... no, the other properly, the yard. There's two very
large Cottonwoods there.
Mr. Taormina:
Yes, there's a 24 inch identified here, but I can't see what the
other one is. Maybe even larger.
Mr. Malchynski:
24 inch. Its more than that. But anyways, those are the over
100 fool tall trees. So what you're saying is that those would be
coming down so we would have a clear view of not the top 20
feet of the lower, but just about the entire tower. There are
some 40 fool trees on the creek line which would provide some
relief, but its a much less desirable situation to take out those
very large trees which are there. And I agree with Mike. Any
kind of a green effect would be much better. You know, I'm not
saying we shouldn't have a tower there or anything like that.
That's fine, but let's lake some care as far as how we present it
to the neighborhood.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I appreciate that, Mr. Malchynski. Anything else? I appreciate
R. Thank you very much. Hello, ma'am. Can we have your
name and address?
Dawn Wielosinski, 15782 Golfview. I'm the house that's exactly 300 feet from
the tower. So I'm in that comer.
Mr. Wilshaw:
All right. And your comments?
Ms. Wielosinski: A couple concerns I have. Right now, I know you're saying that
they're going to be coming down there once or twice a month for
maintenance. That road is used constantly by vehicles. To add
more vehides in there, I know it's supposed to be a
maintenance road. They speed up and down that road. There
was an accident there last year from someone speeding up and
down the road, and its supposed to be just a back maintenance
exit or entrance in there. Now you've got more cars that are
going to be coming in there. If you're going to be parking more
sluff in the back, same thing. You're going to have more
vehicles up and down that road to gel into it. The other concern
July 14, 2009
25302
I have, since I live right next to the woods, kids are playing in
those woods all the time. Theyre paint balling back there.
They're running around. They're partying back there. They're
drinking. They're smoking. I mean the kids that are back there,
theyre going to come up and theyre going to vandalize all that
sluff. How are you supposed to track what's going on with that
lower? A six fool fence is not going to hold any of those kids
out. They're back there constantly playing paint balls. I mean
that's going to do it. Under the bridge on the other side, they
party over there all the time. Its another place you're going to
have kids coming in there and hiding and trying to gel into
places. And the other question is, I know, like I said since I live
there, it's always wet back there. Is that not a wetland in that
area? It's constantly wet back in those woods. So how do we
know that it's not a wetland right there with the stream that's
coming to the back of it? Do we know? Has that been checked
into to know that's not an area thatis a wetland?
Mr. Wilshaw:
We're going to ask those questions after everyone has had a
chance to speak.
Ms. Wielosinski:
Okay. As far as the pictures of the dirt and the gravel, oh, I
have the pictures of the dirt and the gravel. I have to stare at
that everyday all the sluff that's silting out there. The golf
course is actually very easy to work with. I've asked them on
sluff and they've actually moved sluff. But like I said, I stare out
my window just as the other ones from the other side, and I'm
staring at that stuff all the time. They've got tractors coming in
and out of there. It's annoying. And now I'm going to open up
the window and I'm going to see the big lower in the backyard.
So I do agree with the light. I dont want to look at a light. I can
see lights that go clear across the golf course when their back
porch lights tum on. So to have another light right there, I mean
there's a bunch of things. I understand the tower. I have
Verizon service. I have full service and I'm in the corner. So I'm
kind of confused. I'm in my basement, and I've got full service.
I live right in that corner. So I'm not quite sure as far as the
service. I've also been told there's a lower that's already been
proposed and accepted, what, half a mile down at Dickinson,
not turned on yet. How do we know that's not going to work for
the coverage? So that's a couple questions that I've got so far.
And I agree with the trees to cover it. If it's going to be there,
make it look decent so I dont have to stare at this ugly lower.
Mr. Wilshaw:
All right.
Ms. Wielosinski:
So that's all that I have right now.
July 14, 2009
25303
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you very much. Hello, ma'am. Name and address
please.
Nancy Engels, 15706 Golfview. I'm a couple doors down. My backyard will not
be looking directly at the lower, but the question I have is
similar to what Ms. Wielosinski had. There are towers
proposed and approved to go into Dickinson and at the
Livonia Public School headquarters off of Farmington. If I
understand, all lowers have to accommodate three different
carriers. Why can't Verizon put their equipment on those
two towers and not have to have a third lower in that little
tiny woodland? Its not a giant park. It's a small woods. If
you guys do do it, like they pointed out, please don't cut
down the big trees. Green the thing up. But does it really
have to happen? We traveled across the State this
weekend, went to Ludington. Along the highway up, every
five miles there's a cell lower because we're really being
attentive to see, ok, is this what we're going to get? Ooh,
don't like this one. But you don't have them every mile.
They're every five miles. So if the rest of Michigan can have
them every 5 miles, and I had Verizon coverage all the way
across Michigan. I live four doors away from where they're
proposing this lower. I have perfect coverage. Why do we
need another lower, especially when the one at Dickinson
hasn't even gone up yet? And who knows if that's going to
solve the problem of those two or three dropped calls.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Thank you very much. Hello, sir.
Tom Karabatakis, 16115 Fairway. Hello. I back up to the creek so I'm right there
behind the park and next to the golf course. I do look at that
shed building storage unit. From what I understood, there is not
going to be another storage unit built, just a yard that's going to
be used. Will thalslorage unit stay where it is, the current one?
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes.
Mr. Karabatakis: Okay. My concerns are a lot of what's been said here also and
especially the wetland issue. I did go back there a couple days
ago, and there were flags there that stated wefland delineation.
It looks like somebody's doing a study currently of whether
that's a wetland and being that those flags were there, to me it
seems like they've designated it as a wetland. Now if that is
true, if its designated as wefland, would this cancel this zoning
or planning?
July 14, 2009
25304
Mr. Wilshaw:
I think it would definitely change the scope of this. We're going
to ask about that after everyone's had a chance to speak and
see if we can hammer that out for you.
Mr. Karabatakis:
Okay. For the money that is going to be received for lease
payments, is there any usage assigned to that? Do you know
what it's going to be spent on, the extra income?
Mr. Wilshaw:
I believe the funds from the cellular lower go into the General
Fund but that's another question. I'm getting a yes, that it goes
into our General Fund so it can be used for anything in the City.
Mr. Karabatakis:
Another concern that I've had as I'm doing some research on
this, with this being approved, that it could change 53 other sites
that could also be designated for waiver usage. Can you
expand on that a little bit?
Mr. Wilshaw:
I believe you're looking at the second item on our agenda, which
is not related to the cellular lower.
Mr. Karabatakis:
Being that you're asking for a waiver use for this site, wouldn't
that set some kind of precedent where parks would now be
allowed to have cell lowers?
Mr. Wilshaw:
No, no. The Item #2 on our agenda is for Future Land Use
planning, which is essentially a guide as to what each parcel of
properly throughout the City is used for. That has absolutely no
relation to the cell tower proposal here.
Mr. Karabatakis:
Would this waiver go against the Master Plan that Livonia has?
Mr. Wilshaw:
No. This is parkland. So it's not a change of zoning. The
Master Plan deals with what type of zoning should be in certain
areas. This is not a change of zoning. Its just a waiver to allow
a small portion to be used for something other than its original
use.
Mr. Karabatakis:
I guess that's where I'm sure a lot of people are upset too, is
that they're using a park for a cell tower where it does seem like
there should be other areas that it can be away from houses. I
know everyone does have the "not in my backyard" mentality,
but there is a point where if it is that close to a house, it has to
have some substance to it where there is so much in Livonia. I
mean that's what the industrial park part of Livonia was kind of
created for, was to put the unsightly buildings that are a
necessity for commerce and for manufacturing, but no one
wants something that unsightly next to their home and that's
July 14, 2009
25305
why Livonia was created as it is, to have the industrial area
separated from the residential area.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Sure.
Mr. Karabatakis:
I think that should be continued, that thought process.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I'm sure the folks from the cellular company can talk to this as
well, but one of the things that we're dealing with in the City as
we see more and more cellular tower petitions come before is,
is that residents and people's use of cellular phones has
changed over the years, as opposed to just being a mobile
phone that's in their car. So you put towers near freeways.
Now people want to use their cell phones as their home phone.
Therefore, the towers are now getting closer to their homes so
that they can have proper and full coverage within their homes.
Mr. Karabatakis:
What's the worse case scenario that would happen if this tower
did not go where it is regarding coverage?
Mr. Wilshaw:
That would be a question that the Verizon folks can answer, and
I will ask that.
Mr. Karabatakis:
All right. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else that would like to speak at
this time? If not, we'll ask that the petitioner come up, and if
you'd like to address some of the cencems that have been
mentioned, you can go ahead. Otherwise, we have a few
questions for you.
Mr. LaBelle:
Sure, (would like to. Let me start first with the coverage issue.
The people here are getting coverage, great. I'm glad you are.
The situation is that anytime you see a coverage map, and if
you could put that coverage map up again, the one before
rather than after. In any circumstance where you see that, you'll
see that there are areas that have little pockets that show that
they have it. And even the red area, you can gel a signal. But
the point of the matter is, is that the reason why that is showing
red and the reason why we are here is because we have
received numerous complaints about dropped and lost coverage
and lost ability to be able to use the additional services that are
available. That's the capacity issue. Bottom line, we do not
want to build lowers. Il may feel like that's what we want to do,
but it costs us upwards of $400,000 to build these things. If we
could gel away with building no more lowers at all and just keep
working the way it is right now, we would, because we make
more money if we don't have to spend $400,000 to put a tower
July 14, 2009
25306
up. But under the Federal Telecommunications Ad, in order to
maintain our license to be able to broadcast on this, we have to
respond to complaints. So we are doing this because we have
received those complaints. Persons here may be getting
coverage, but a lot of other people aren't, and those are the
persons who we're addressing by doing this. If you could put
the after map up. The concept here is just to deal with that, and
that's the reason why it gets stuck in there at that point. These
map coverages are the result of RF frequency results, and the
fad that this particular site is as high on our prionty list as it is, is
the direct result of the number of complaints and dropped calls
that we have registered either within our system or as a result of
direct complaints from the customers. So this is a coverage
issue whether or not they're having a problem there or not. I'd
also like to address the issue of what it would look like. If I
could have the map up again that shows the site plan. That one
there. I'm going to start first by noting for the Planning
Commission, under the Federal Communications Act, which I've
already referenced, we have obligations with regard to providing
coverage to our customers. In order to maintain the licenses
that we pay for in the first place and retain, we have to provide
that service. One of the things that's provided in the Federal
Communications Act is the reference to the fad that any
decision by a stale or local government to deny a request to
place, construct or modify a personal wireless service facility
shall be in writing and supported by substantial evidence
contained in written record. That's basically the standard which
is established by the federal government with regard to what
has to happen at this point. I understand the concerns of the
citizens with regard to a telecommunications tower. I'll start to
address some of the issues about how it will look and what we
can do with regard to that. But the basic concept, it's ugly, is
not substantial evidence in the record, and it has been held
several times as not being one the things that can be
established. From our standpoint in terms of dealing with this,
we went, I think it was described earlier that we have actually
been in negotiations with the City of Livonia for over a year with
regard to the location. Two years? Two years with the City of
Livonia with regard to where to put this. We have been all over
this golf course with regard to where to located it. One of the
places that was, in fad, suggested that was, in fad, rejected by
the Parks and Recreation Department is right in the middle of
the fairway out there. Put it out somewhere out there. And its
not because the golfers are going to have a problem with it. Its
because it's even more visible out there. If you stick it out in the
middle of the fairway, there are no trees around it. Instead of
two-thirds of it to three-quarters of it being covered by trees,
nothing is covered by trees, and it becomes completely visible.
July 14, 2009
25307
It may not be as visible to the persons immediately adjacent to
R, but everyone along the rest of the north of Idyl Wyld golf
course would suddenly see the entire width of the tower,
including the shelter that exists below it. So that was part of our
reason for putting it where it is. With regard to where it is
located in this circumstance, if you take a look at this map
carefully, you will know that a number of the trees that are being
taken out dont include the biggest trees that are available there.
One of the trees that is being retained is a 36 foot wide Oak.
Another one is a 24 fool wide Oak. Another one is a 25 fool
wide Oak, and this is thick brush. These are all designed and
left that way. And its designed to be that way in order to be
able to shelter as much as we can possible do the location of
this. As far as the tower itself is concerned, like I said before, it
is painted a gray color to try to blend into the background of the
area in general. I began working for Verizon about seven years
ago. Prior to that time period, I drove down Telegraph Road to
go to my workplace every day and never noticed the wireless
towers that dot the whole thing. They are literally all the way
along there. After I started working for them, I suddenly started
noticing them. I noticed that they were there. It may be hard to
believe, but after a certain amount of time, you begin to ignore
them. They really are not very obtrusive when you get to the
question of what they look like on the long lens. As far as a
stealth lower is concerned, which is what the reference was to a
pine tree and the like, it can be done and we certainly have
done it in certain places. I will tell you that its not that stealthy.
If you get 120 feet up and the rest of the trees are 80 feet up,
usually you can figure out that that's not a real tree when it's
sticking up higher than everything else. The other big thing that
is a difference between it and doing it just as a regular
monopole is the collocalors. If you place essentially
camouflaging on the lop of it, you eliminate locations where
collocalors can go on the lower, the result of which is the people
that have already talked to us about collocating on this, T -Mobil,
AT&T, they won't be able to go on this lower if it becomes a
stealth lower. Al that point, they will have to be asking
themselves to put up lowers elsewhere, approximately in the
same areas. As to the question about what other lowers are
available to go onto, the two lowers that were mentioned, one of
them is our lower. That's the one at the Livonia Public Schools
facility. That's ours and we've already had requests by other
parties to collocate on that one as well. This is why it's called
cellular coverage: cellular coverage tries to take each individual
location, each tower, and fl the cell that's created around that
tower with every other cell without overlapping. The more you
overlap these cells, the more you gel them overlapped with one
another, the more you actually gel reduced coverage because
July 14, 2009
25308
within the area where they overlap, you gel destructive
interference between the signals, the result of which you can
actually decrease the coverage by having them loo close
together. But at the same time, they do need to be able to link
up, and they do link up about two to three mile radius from each
other. It's not as large as you would think, and I know along 4
75 or along 496, you may have seen that there's a lot them.
What you're not seeing is lowers that are farther back from the
road, which are, in fact, only two to three feel away, but you just
can't see them because they are loo far away from the road
itself, and they are 120 fool lowers. So when we gel down to
the question of whether we need it or not, we definlely need it.
The question of whether we can go on someplace else, we can't
because we're the ones putting those lowers up in the first
place. And then lastly, with regard to how ....
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. LaBelle, did you look atthe Dickinson site at all?
Mr. LaBelle:
I'm sorry?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Are you aware of the Dickinson site and did you consider that?
Mr. LaBelle:
I have to defer here because I'm not sure about the Dickinson
site.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Just if you're going to address this since you're still on that
subject right at the moment.
Mr. Calloway:
No, we didn't look at the Dickinson site. When they give us an
area to look in, they've looked at all the other towers and all the
other proposed towers. Whenever we propose a tower, that's
how AT&T and T -Mobil know that we're proposing this lower.
We lel each other know. All the cell phone companies lel each
other know that we're proposing a lower at this location. If
you're interested, please put in a collocation application with us.
So if there's a tower that's being proposed, we look at all of
those first, and then they send out a map showing us an area
that they would like to locale a lower. So in short, no, we didn't
specifically look at the Dickinson site because its not within the
map that was given to us where they needed to locate a tower,
but our engineer has looked at all the sites around the area
where they need coverage to figure out whether they can use
one of those sites. It's a lot cheaper for us to collocate than it is
to build a lower.
Mr. LaBelle:
The area that Leland is referring to, he talks about the map.
That's called a search ring. It's a point source that says, right
here would be the very best place possible for this to go, but I'll
Ms. Smiley: I think you wanted to address the security in that area
Mr. Wilshaw: Security and lighting of the area.
July 14, 2009
25309
let you go about a quarter mile around that. Again, this is all an
issue of matching up those cells and not overlapping them. So
you can't really get too far away from the optimal coverage point
without causing major problems with coverage. You will get
destructive interference as well as permanent coverage gaps
because you can't fill them up. So that's the reason why.
Mr. Wilshaw:
All right. Thank you. Would you like to continue?
Mr. LaBelle:
Okay. There was one other matter that was talked about. Oh,
the wetland or the food plain. You actually see on our map,
there's a designation of the wefland that is there. The flags that
somebody referred to, those are ours. We're the ones who
have actually gone out there and done the work necessary to
figure out what this is. It's an unregulated wetland. It's not
sufficienfly large enough to be regulated under the regulations
of the Michigan DNR or the DEC. So as a result, it's not
included. But if you take a look at it also, even if you look at the
contours of where the wetland is actually located, we are
outside of it. No portion of our tower is located within it.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I think if you put a lower on a wetland, it wouldn't be stable.
Correct?
Mr. LaBelle:
That's correct. We cant dump it on top of wetland. It's possible
to put those babies on stilts but you really don't want to do that rf
you don't have to. We're not doing that in this circumstance.
There was one other matter that was referenced that was
basically visibility of the storage area. I can't really talk to what
the storage area is going to be used for because it's the City's,
and I'm not sure what it's going to be. But as I understand it,
the reason why they wanted the storage area in the first place in
terms of visibility and the like, was to move the unsightly
condition of what was there over into that area, which would be
a controlled fenced and, as it turns out, completely surrounded
by trees. If you cant see that area now, you're not going to see
it after it gets moved over in that storage area because it has to
be over to that side. If you can see it now, it is moving to a
position where it will behind trees. So it, hopefully, will be less
visible in that case. But again like I said, I'm really not sure
what the City of Livonia is going to be doing with that, but I do
know that it will provide, I would suggest, more coverage,
reduced visibility of that material from where they are currently
located now.
Ms. Smiley: I think you wanted to address the security in that area
Mr. Wilshaw: Security and lighting of the area.
July 14, 2009
25310
Mr. LaBelle: Yes. Lel me talk about that in general. Let's start with the
ground lighting. As far as the lower is concerned and it being lit,
we're at the pleasure of the Commission. Whatever they want
to do. But as far as the ground lighting is concerned, that site
actually isn't lit at all. It has a low wattage security light, 120
wafts, that only goes on when it motion detects anything in that
area. The only time that's going to happen is when one of our
guys goes there and he is only going to go there once or twice a
month. As one person suggested, there's a lot of traffic going
back up and down there and we'll add to that. If there's a lot of
traffic going up and down now, we will be adding to it in a very
diminutonal basis if we're only doing it one vehicle once or
twice for about an hour or less at the site once or twice a month.
I would not think we would add significantly to the congestion to
the extent that there is traffic on the thing now. It's a matter of
what the golf course does with it, and I dont think we'll change
that situation. As far as the security is concerned on this site, I'll
start with the most basic consideration. We have never had a
security issue with regard to any of our sites anywhere in the
State of Michigan. The reason why is because its got several
redundancies in terms of security. The first thing is that the
fence itself will be six feel high. It is locked and has no access
available to it. It is possible that we could put barbed wire on
lop of it. We did not because of the fact that the ordinance
doesn't allow us to do so. We do so in some circumstances, put
barbed wire on lop of it. But even if you didn't in this
circumstance, once you're in this location, if you're actually
inside there, there's only two things you can monkey with, if you
will, within that area. One would be the building itself and two
would be the tower. The tower has access rungs, a ladder, to
be able to get onto it. It starts 20 feel high before you can gel
up to that point. Unless they went over the lop of this fence with
a 20 fool extension ladder, they're not getting up on that lower
in any way, shape or form. It won't be possible to gel up there.
The building itself is not only locked and secured, the building
also has a security system, a motion and security sensor. It will
alert a security firm, that we engage as part of our process in
doing all of our lowers, that there has been someone who's
been detected there. Long before anybody could actually make
any access to anything within there, we would be there with our
security people to make sure they didn't. I grant you that this is
close to a school, but the plain matter of fact is that we actually
put our lowers on school property as well, and we've not had
issues on those school properties with vandalism or with access
to the site. We're well aware of the security issues in
connection with these kinds of things with 40,000 some
locations across the United States. We've had a little
July 14, 2009
25311
experience in trying to deal with those issues and we've got it
down to a little bit of a science. So basically, what it comes
down to is that I don't think there will be any security issues
because there hasn't been any up to now.
Mr.Wilshaw: Are there any other questions?
Mr. Taylor: Speaking of the building, is it a masonry building?
Mr. LaBelle:
I'm not sure.
Mr. Calloway:
Its a prefab concrete building with a veneer, and we can put
whatever kind of veneer you like on it. Usually we use an
aggregate veneer, but some municipalities want a brick veneer
and we accommodate that.
Mr. Taylor:
Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Anything else, Mr. LaBelle?
Mr. LaBelle:
I think I will rest unless there are other questions from someone
with regard to what's happened here. I've tried to address what
concerns there are.
Mr. Wilshaw:
The security was the last one that I had on my list as well, so I
appreciate that.
Mr. LaBelle:
Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. LaBelle, or actually Mr. Calloway might be more
appropriate, the resident had asked about her TV reception
being affected.
Mr. Calloway:
I would argue that's from the handset. That's what she said,
when she started messing with the handset, that she saw that it
affected the TV.
Mr. Wilshaw:
But the lower would not. ..
Mr. Calloway:
No, it's not the lower. It's the closest thing to the electronic
device that you're having an issue with, so that's her handset.
Mr. LaBelle:
I can speak to that from a legal basis. The Federal
Communications Commission is charged with establishing the
frequency band with regard to everything that's out. The
frequency band within which we operate is significantly higher in
most cases than that which is obtained with regard to a TV or
radio signal. We're similar to a radio signal in some respects
July 14, 2009
25312
but the band widths have been divided up so that they don't
allow that and we're regulated by the FCC to maintain within
those band widths. We can lose our license if we go outside
those band widths.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Right. If you interfere with TV, then you actually can lose your
license.
Mr. LaBelle:
We can, yes. So if we stay within our band width, which we do,
we shouldn't interfere with any TV signal.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Thank you, sir. Based on that, if there are no other
questions, I think we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.
Al this time, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Smiley, and adopted, itwas
#07-42-2009
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on July 14, 2009, on
Petition 2008-08-02-26 submitted by FMHC Corporation, agents
for Verizon Wireless, requesting waiver use approval to
construct a wireless communication support structure (120 fool
high monopole) and equipment shelter within Fairway Park,
located north of Five Mile Road and east of Levan Road
(adjacent to Idyl Wyld Golf Course) in the Southeast 1/4 of
Section 17, which property is zoned PL, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2008-08-02-26 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the Site Survey and General Information Plan marked
Sheet 1 of Job No. 94044-1114 prepared by Midwestern
Consulting, dated April 23, 2009, as revised, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
2. That the Site Plan Detail and Pole Elevation Plan marked
Sheet 2 of Job No. 94044-1114 prepared by Midwestern
Consulting, dated April 23, 2009, as revised, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
3. That the Soil Erosion and Sedimentation Control Plan
marked Sheet 3 of Job No. 94044-1114 prepared by
Midwestern Consulting, dated April 23, 2009, as revised is
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
4. That the total overall height of the monopole, together with
the antenna platform at the top, shall not exceed 125 feet;
July 14, 2009
25313
5. That this monopole antenna support structure shall be
designed and constructed so as to accommodate
collocation for at least three (3) additional users;
6. That this monopole antenna support structure shall be
located at least 300 feet distant from any residence as
required;
7. That barbed wire shall not be installed on fence sections
bordering the lease area or the City storage yard;
8. That a low -wattage, non -blinking light shall be installed on
the monopole for public safety reasons due to its proximity
to St. Mary Mercy Hospital's helicopter landing pad, as
recommended in the correspondence dated June 16, 2009,
from the Police Division of the Department of Public Safety;
9. That the lease area may be decreased in size and its
configuration adjusted or modified to the extent possible in
orderto minimize any unnecessary tree clearing; and
10. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 18.42A and 19.06 of the Zoning
Ordinance #543.
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw Is there any discussion on this motion?
Ms. Smiley: I do have one point and that's the non -blinking light on the
tower. In light of the information, I'm not sure exactly ... did
July 14, 2009
25314
you want to share again what the Stale of Michigan said about
the tower?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Yes. The standards that are used on any lower under 200 feet,
actually any object under 200 feel, does not require a light.
Anything with a 25:1 slope ratio, which in this particular case,
based on the basic estimation from the distance of St. Mary's,
the lower would have to be at least 140 feel to be within that
guideline. It would then be reviewed by the Stale for a light, and
then they use a guide of 8:1 slope ratio before they do
recommend a light, which would make this lower have to be
several thousand feel probably if that was the case or at lead
several hundred feel to require a light. So it definitely does not
require a light based on lheirslandards.
Ms. Smiley:
Do you think that would be something they would look at before
it goes to Council? We would have them look at the necessity
for a light.
Mr. Taylor:
We could do that. I have no problem with doing those types of
things. What comes to my mind is, you gel a new helicopter
pilot that possibly hasn't gone in that area before and doesn't
know about that lower, and I know they're supposed to know
about those types of things, and I'm looking at the fact of what
happens if he happens to run into the lower and the helicopter
falls on one of the homes. I think we ought to do everything we
can do to make sure there's no accident that happens in that
area. That's just the way I feel about it.
Ms. Smiley:
Okay. That's fine. We'll go ahead with it.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Ms. McDermott, do you have anything?
Ms. McDermott:
Well, I'm just concerned about that as well. From the
information that we've heard here, I dont think that we have that
as a concern. Obviously, I wouldn't want to see a helicopter fall
onto one of the houses, either. I sure the residents would not
like to see that either, but it doesn't appear, from the information
that we have, that that is a concem. So I actually would like to
see that removed from the resolution.
Mr. Wilshaw:
That is something the maker of the motion can offer if you could
like, otherwise a substitute resolution can be offered.
Mr. Taylor:
Well, you have to remember that this a recommending body and
that the City Council is going to hear this also. In their wisdom,
they would either approve the light or disapprove the light.
That's the way I feel about it. I was on the Council before and
July 14, 2009
25315
the Council will certainly determine whether they feel its a
safety factor or not, and they may even get more information
than we have.
Mr. Wilshaw: Anything else, Mrs. McDermott?
Ms. McDermott: No.
Mr. Taormina: If I may request a friendly amendment to the motion and that
would be that the size and configuration of the lease area, or the
size be minimized and the configuration modified to the extent
possible so as to minimize any unnecessary tree clearing. So
where we could make adjustments potentially to that size and
configuration of the lease area, we could do so in order to save
any trees along that edge.
Mr. Taylor: I have no problem with that.
Ms. Smiley: Okay.
Mr. Wilshaw: The maker and the supporter agree?
Ms. Smiley: Sure, no problem with me either.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. We'll have that added to the resolution. Is there anything
else from the Commission at this time? Then we'll call the roll.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Taylor, Smiley, Vartoogian, Wilshaw
NAYES:
McDermott
ABSTAIN:
None
ABSENT:
Scheel, Morrow
Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
ITEM #2 PETITION 2009-02-07-01 FUTURE LAND USE PLAN
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2009-02-
07-01, submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to
Council Resolution #132-09, to determine whether or not to
amend Part VII of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia, Future
Land Use Plan, so as to change the future land use designation
of 53 various locations throughoutthe City.
July 14, 2009
25316
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you, Ms. Secretary. This is our own item so we can go
directly to Mr. Taormina to fill us in on this.
Mark Taormina: Thank you. The Planning Commission is seeking to update the
Future Land Use Map with respect to 53 locations throughout
the City. For each of the proposed changes, the staff has
prepared a map with information relating to the location, the size
of the subject land area, current zoning, existing land use, as
well as the current and proposed Future Land Use designations.
The purpose of these amendments is to have the Future Land
Use Plan brought up -lo -dale and made current so as to be
consistent with recent zoning changes and to reflect changes
with respect to actual and/or proposed land uses. We're adding
a new land use category called "Mixed Use". Land designated
as Mixed Use would provide opportunities for a variety of
potential uses, including mixtures of retail, office, institutional,
and residential type developments. This category could also act
as a transition between low density residential and higher
intensity developments. Following tonight's public hearing, if
adopted, the Department will submit the final approved Future
Land Use Plan to the City Council for certification. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw Mr. Nowak, do you have any additional correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: We have correspondence from three communities that were
notified of the proposed changes to the Future Land Use Plan.
The first item is from the Township of Plymouth, dated April 17,
2009, which reads as follows: "Thank you for forwarding the
proposed amendments to the City of Livonia Future Land Use
Map for our review and comments. The Charter Township of
Plymouth Planning Commission has reviewed the proposed
amendments and has no objections to the proposal" The letter
is signed by Dennis Cebulski, Planning Commission Chairman.
The second letter is from the City of Canton, dated April 14,
2009, which reads as follows: 'We have reviewed the proposed
amendments and have no comments." The letter is signed by
Jeffrey A. Goulel, Community Planner. The third letter is from
the City of Novi, dated May 20, 2009, which reads as follows:
"The City of Novi Planning Commission has reviewed the City of
Livonia's proposed Future Land Use Map amendments and the
Commission has no objections to the proposed changes.
Please consider the attached memo from City of Novi Planner
Mark Spencer, dated April 13, 2009, as the Planning
Commission's review of the matter. Thank you for the
opportunity to comment on your proposed Master Plan
amendments." The letter is signed by Mark Pehrson, Chairman.
Also there is an attached letter from the City of Novi Planner
July 14, 2009
25317
that basically states that they have no objections to the
proposed changes. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Wilshaw
Thank you, Mr. Nowak. Since this is our own petition, there is
no petitioner to come forward. Are there any questions from the
Commissioners at this point? No questions? Is there anybody
in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition?
Sir, please come forward. If you could provide your name and
address, I'd appreciate it.
Mr. Wit:
First a matter of darification. Are we only talking about that
particular spot, or are we talking about all 53 designations?
Mr.Wilshaw:
Weare talking about all 53 designations.
Gary Wilt, 16795 Renwick. I'm speaking to the Clay properly proposal at Six
Mile and Newburgh, Fitzgerald and Munger. I am now the Past
President of the Kingsbury Heights/Renwick Park Civic
Association. Last year I was President. First of all, I want to
thank the Future Land Use committee publicly for spending time
with me Iasi year to explain their process and to listen to the
Association's concerns about the Clay School properly,
concerns such as the application for commercial warehousing,
condos, school warehousing, school meal services, and so
forth. Most of that has been slopped and other solutions have
been sought, and now the proposal is low density residential. I
especially want to thank the Future Land Use committee for
going over their extended time by about half an hour so that we
could really discuss the low density residential meaning. So our
Association mel prior to this evening to get the input from our
residents. Some of the residents are here tonight, but I think we
did a pretty good job of explaining what the Future Land Use
proposal was. And so I am here to tell you that if and when the
School Board decides to sell the Clay property, our Association
would not argue with the proposal of the Future Land Use
designation of low density residential. We can't speak for every
individual landowner on Munger and Fitzgerald but, in general,
the Association supports the designation. However, we would
like to continue to be involved with the Planning Commission
and City Council as plans for that properly progress. In the
past, together, we have had some very successful outcomes.
Some of you may remember the Newburgh Plaza with Stu
Frankel. We reached some very agreeable terms on
landscaping and lighting and hours of operation. We worked
with the Planning Commission and the City Council on the
proposed AT&T cell lower in the past, and we believe that by
working together again we could be successful, if required, to
work on the Clay property to the satisfaction of the homeowners
July 14, 2009
25318
that border that area. Our President, Lou Suveg, is in
Pennsylvania this evening with his daughter and his new
granddaughter, so he couldn't be here, but also representing
our civic association today is our Vice President, Paul Kerby.
Paul will share with you some of our concerns and desires
regarding low density residential development. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, Mr. Witt. I know that you attended the meeting,
along with several of the Planning Commissioners, and we did
spend a lot of time together. Your cooperative nature is
hopefully going to result in a positive outcome going forward.
We appreciate that.
Mr. Wit:
I know we've been successful in the past and no reason why we
can't continue to be successful.
Mr.Wilshaw:
Exactly. Thank you very much.
Paul Kerby, 37332 Bristol. Good evening. As Mr. Will said, I'm Vice President of
the Kingsbury Heights/Renwick Park Civic Association. We had
a recent association meeting where we identified three main
areas that we would like to highlight and gel on record. Number
one, we have the home design. We would like to see that it is
compatible. And again, we understand that it is a Future Land
Use and this isn't something that is going on, but we'd like to get
this on record that this is what we would like. Home design
compatible with existing homes, part of that is lot size, footprint,
height equivalent with current homes in the area. Number two
is egress and ingress. We have a particular concern about a
long range plan for a road at one point that was proposed
behind Munger Street, behind the residents on Munger. We
would not like to see that. Otherwise, ingress and egress at any
spot would be a concern, especially if the church decided to sell
any parcels there. Number three is a couple of various items,
green space, lighting, possible commons area, berming,
sidewalks, any of those things. We would just like to see
something that is compatible with what we have. A common
area was brought up amongst our members that came to the
Association meeting. The lighting was another concem. If there
was a commons area, that it wasn't intrusive. As any plans for
development do progress, all we ask is that our Association is
given sensitivity to these items. We would just like to be
involved as it goes forward, That's all we have. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you so much, Mr. Kerby.
Mr. Kerby:
Thank you.
July 14, 2009
25319
Mr. Wilshaw:
Is there anything else from the Commission at this lime?
Mr. Taormina:
I would just like to point out that we greatly appreciate the input
from the residents when we look at these matters. We spent
quite a bit of time with Mr. Witt discussing this particular area,
and as the Commissioners who were at that committee meeting
will recall, we struggled quite a bit with how we might blend the
low density residential portion with possibly an open space area
if ever this area is developed in the form of residential. Again,
this is only to guide future decision making with respect to
rezoning and development proposals. But it was fell that we
would keep that in mind that at some point, what we'd like to
see would be a combination of both some amount of open
space in combination with the residential for any development
that might take place on this properly, recognizing that it is
presently a school properly and that this school site does offer
some level of recreation to the residents. It was felt that we
would like to incorporate that at some time into the future design
for this site should it ever be redeveloped.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, Mr. Taormina. That particular item has been put on
the screen for the area that we're speaking of, which is behind
Newburgh Plaza there. Is there anything else from anybody on
the Commission? Go ahead, Mr. Taylor.
Mr. Taylor:
I worked on the plaza. I was on the Council at the time and
worked with Mr. Frenkel and got him to meet with the neighbors.
I'm glad to see that you have a civic association. There are so
many of them that are defunct now, unfortunately. That's what it
takes for a group of citizens in their neighborhood to keep a
watch on what's going on. This is just the Future Land Use Plan
we're talking about. It would have to be rezoned and it's owned
by the schools. They would have to have it rezoned in order for
any kind of a development to go there. But you keeping your
ears and eyes open as to what happens is a great function of
what your civic association can do, and I say congratulations to
you for doing it. Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Thank you, Mr. Taylor. If there are no other comments from the
Commission, then we will go ahead and close the public hearing
at this time. A motion is in order.
On a motion by McDermott, seconded by Vartoogian, and unanimously adopted,
it was
#07-43-2009
RESOLVED, that pursuant to the provisions of Act 285 of the
Public Acis of Michigan 1931, as amended, and the City
Planning Commission of the City of Livonia having held a Public
July 14, 2009
25320
Hearing on July 14, 2009, for the purpose of amending Part VII
of the Master Plan of the City of Livonia, the Future Land Use
Plan, so as to change the future land use designation of 53
various properties located throughout the City, for the following
reasons:
1. That the amendments are necessary to bring the Future
Land Use Plan up-to-date so as to be consistent with
recent zoning changes and to reflect changes with respect
to actual and/or proposed land uses;
2. That the proposed amendments will insure that the Future
Land Use Plan will be current in accordance with the
Planning Commission's policy; and
3. That the proposed amendments to the Future Land Use
Plan are logical and reasonable.
AND, having given proper notice of such hearing as required by
Act 285 of Public Acts of Michigan 1931, as amended, the City
Planning Commission does hereby adopt said amendment as
part of the Future Land Use Plan of the City of Livonia which is
incorporated herein by reference, the same having been
adopted by resolution of the City Planning Commission with all
amendments thereto, and further that this amendment shall be
fled with the City Council, City Clerk and the City Planning
Commission and a certified copy shall also be forwarded to the
Register of Deeds for the County of Wayne for recording.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
McDermott, Vartoogian, Taylor, Smiley, Wilshaw
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
ABSENT:
Morrow, Sheel
Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution. We will then go on to our Pending Items
section of the agenda. These items have been discussed at
length in prior meetings; therefore, there will be limited
discussion tonight. Audience communication requires
unanimous consent from the Commission.
July 14, 2009
25321
ITEM#3 PETITION 2009-04-02-08 TROPICAL SMOOTHIE
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009-
04-02-08 submitted by Tropical Smoothie Cafe requesting
waiver use approval for outdoor seating in connection with an
existing restaurant facility at 30971 Five Mile Road within the
Livonia Plaza shopping center, located on the south side of Five
Mile Road between Merriman Road and Henry Ruff Road in the
Northwest 1/4 of Section 23.
Mr. Wilshaw: This item has been tabled. Do we have a motion to take 0 off
the table?
On a motion by McDermott, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, 0
was
#07-44-2009 RESOLVED, that City Planning Commission does hereby
recommend that Petition 2009-04-02-08 submitted by Tropical
Smoothie Cafe requesting waiver use approval for outdoor
seating in connection with an existing restaurant facility at
30971 Five Mile Road within the Livonia Plaza shopping center,
located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Merriman
Road and Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23,
which property is zoned C-2 and P, be removed from the table.
Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. Are there any updates?
Mr. Taormina: No. I see that Mr. John Fakhoury is here. If you have any
questions for the petitioner, he's here to answer them.
Mr. Wilshaw If the petitioner could come forward, I think we did have a
question from our prior meeting that we wanted to ask of you.
Please give us your name and address for the record.
John Fakhoury, 4408 Firestone, Dearborn, Michigan 48126.
Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. We had a chance to review pur petition at our last
meeting. Is there anything else that you wanted to add at this
lime?
Mr. Fakhoury: I just feel that we want to improve on the restaurant, and it's not
going to hurl nobody. Its to improve the restaurant and the
business in the area.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Are there any questions from the Commission?
July 14, 2009
25322
Ms.
Vartoogian:
I just have some questions about the type of seating you'll have.
Mr.
Fakhoury:
It's cast iron. It's all commercial grade for outdoor sealing for
restaurants.
Ms.
Vartoogian:
Do you plan on having any type of umbrellas on the tables?
Mr.
Fakhoury:
Yes. We sent in the pictures. We had 26 copies made. It's a
diagram of the pictures and the umbrellas.
Ms.
Vartoogian:
I don't think we ever received those.
Mr.
Wilshaw:
Did we gel that, Mr. Taormina?
Mr.
Taormina:
I can't remember seeing it.
Mr.
Nowak:
I'm sorry. What was that?
Mr.
Fakhoury:
We had to make 26 copies of the diagram that showed the
pictures of the tables and the chairs.
Mr.
Nowak:
When you say pictures, do you mean that showed the layout?
Mr.
Fakhoury:
Yes, like the layout.
Mr.
Nowak:
He's talking about what was originally submitted.
Mr.
Taormina:
Yes, the original submittal.
Mr.
Wilshaw:
Its just an overhead shot.
Mr.
Taormina:
I can't remember if we had pictures of the umbrellas.
Mr.
Wilshaw:
I don't recall that.
Ms.
Vartoogian:
Can you describe what the umbrellas will look like as far as
colors or materials?
Mr.
Fakhoury:
Its just going to be a black umbrella with a Tropical Smoothie
logo on there.
Ms.
Vartoogian:
Okay. Thank you. That's all.
Mr.
Wilshaw:
Is there anything else from the Commission?
Ms. Smiley: I hope so loo.
Mr. Taormina: I can personally attest to the quality of the smoothies, a Tropical
Smoothie. You should try it.
Ms. Smiley: I haven't been to one in years, but I was at the one in Florida
and they were very good.
Mr. Fakhoury: Well, hopefully the demographics don't do us wrong, because
when we did the demographic study, the best place for it to be is
in the City of Livonia, out of all of Michigan.
Ms. Smiley: Oh, great. Okay. Good luck.
Mr. Fakhoury: There's 10 percent off for dl city employees for the month of
July.
Mr. Wilshaw: Your business is doing well so far?
Mr. Fakhoury: It's growing. Like Ms. Smiley said, a lot of people don't really
know what it is. They think its just smoothies, but when its a
cafe, its a full menu. So we have no problem once they come
in. They come back everyday. So we have to let the people
July 14, 2009
25323
Ms. Smiley:
I haven't had the opportunity to go to your restaurant. I've seen
it. Are Tropical Smoothies like fruit smoothies? Do you also
serve food?
Mr. Fakhoury:
Yes, what it is, we're bringing a new way for people to eat in the
City of Livonia to promote healthy eating. The smoothies are
made with real frail. We don't put any base, you know what I
mean? A lot of other people who make smoothies, they put a
base of either honey or yogurt or apple juice. But ours are
made with just real fruit and ice. We can use Splenda or we
have a mw sugar called lurbinado. We have bistro sandwiches,
wraps, flat breads, soups and salads.
Ms. Smiley:
Is this a national chain?
Mr. Fakhoury:
Yes, it is.
Ms. Smiley:
Because I think I ate at one in Florida.
Mr. Fakhoury:
That's where we originated from.
Ms. Smiley:
Well, they're very good. You should do well.
Mr. Fakhoury:
I hope so.
Ms. Smiley: I hope so loo.
Mr. Taormina: I can personally attest to the quality of the smoothies, a Tropical
Smoothie. You should try it.
Ms. Smiley: I haven't been to one in years, but I was at the one in Florida
and they were very good.
Mr. Fakhoury: Well, hopefully the demographics don't do us wrong, because
when we did the demographic study, the best place for it to be is
in the City of Livonia, out of all of Michigan.
Ms. Smiley: Oh, great. Okay. Good luck.
Mr. Fakhoury: There's 10 percent off for dl city employees for the month of
July.
Mr. Wilshaw: Your business is doing well so far?
Mr. Fakhoury: It's growing. Like Ms. Smiley said, a lot of people don't really
know what it is. They think its just smoothies, but when its a
cafe, its a full menu. So we have no problem once they come
in. They come back everyday. So we have to let the people
July 14, 2009
25324
know what we offer. We try to do that through different fors of
advertising, fundraisers, to lel people know that ifs more than
just real fruit smoothies.
Mr. Wilshaw: Hopefully, this little bit of air time you're getting here will help
you get another sale or two.
Mr. Fakhoury: I hope so.
Mr. Wilshaw: Is there anything else from the Commission? A motion would
be in order then.
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was
#07-45-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on July 14, 2009, on
Petition 2009-04-02-08 submitted by Tropical Smoothie Cafe
requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating in
connection with an exisfing restaurant facility at 30971 Five Mile
Road within the Livonia Plaza shopping center, located on the
south side of Five Mile Road between Merriman Road and
Henry Ruff Road in the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23, which
property is zoned C-2 and P, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-04-02-
08 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the outdoor seating shall be confined to a portion of
the walkway area that lies immediately east of the subject
restaurant unit as shown on the outside seating location
plan and outside seating arrangement plan submitted by
Tropical Smoothie Cafe, received by the Planning
Commission on May 4, 2009;
2. That the outdoor seasonal restaurant seating shall not
exceed a maximum of 12 seats, which shall be in addition
to 22 previously approved interior seats;
3. That the outdoor dining shall be conducted in a manner
that will insure that sufficient clear space for pedestrian
circulation and egress is maintained on the walkway at all
times;
4. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor
seating area and shall be emptied regularly as needed;
5. That sound levels of any outdoor speakers shall be kept to
a reasonable minimum so as to not become objectionable;
July 14, 2009
25325
6. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #143-
08,
14308, which granted waiver use approval to operate a
restaurant facility at this locafion under Petition 2008-01-
02-06, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not
in conflict with this approval; and
7. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time of application for a Zoning Compliance Permit
for the outdoor dining.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
ITEM#4 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 982ntl Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 982n° Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held
on June 2, 2008.
On a motion by Taylor, seconded by Vartoogian, and unanimously adopted, 8
was
#07-46-2009 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 982n° Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on June 2,
2009, are hereby approved.
July 14, 2009
25326
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Taylor, Vartoogian, Smiley, Wilshaw
NAYS:
None
ABSENT:
Morrow
ABSTAIN:
McDermott
Mr. Wilshaw, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 983d Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on July 14, 2009, was adjourned at 8:42 p.m.
ATTEST:
Ian Wilshaw, Acting Chairman
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
Carol A. Smiley, Secretary