Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2009-04-28MINUTES OF THE 980TH PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, April 28, 2009, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members present: Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow Lynda Scheel Ashley Vartoogian Carol A. Smiley Joe Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; and Ms. Marge Watson, Program Supervisor; were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these pefifions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2009-03-02-05 CAFE O LAIT Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2009-03- 02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lait requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebelt Road, located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between St. Martins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 114 of Section 1. April 28, 2009 25192 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning ofthe surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above-referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. As regards to the address, a prior correspondence to you dated July 1, 2008, from Mr. Robert Schron, City Engineer, incorrectly stated that the address for the site is 19618 Middlebelt Road. The business utilizes the address of 18622 Middlebelt Road. It is contained in a multi-tenant commercial building." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant (seasonal seating) on property located at the above-referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Earl Fester, Senior Fire Inspector. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plan in connection with Cafe O Lait, located at 19618 Mfddlebelt. We recommend that parking blocks be placed in the parking lot around the perimeter of the outdoor seating area as an additional safety measure for the patrons." The letter is signed by David W. Studt, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 20, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 27, 2009, the above- referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. This site as depicted and proposed is deficient eight parking spaces if the fourth tenant space were to be used as retail or mercantile. If the fourth tenant space were to remain vacant and unoccupied permanently, then the parking provided, 48 spaces, is in compliance with the parking required, 48 spaces. The alternative and recommendation is to apply now to the Zoning Board of Appeals for the eight parking space deficiency so that the fourth tenant space may be utilized for retail or like use in the future. The four parking spaces requested by the restaurant could make the fourth tenant space unusable. This Department has no objections to this Petition" The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Apel 28, 2009 25193 Mr. Morrow: Mr. Nowak, did that say they recommended that they apply immediately for the variance? Mr. Nowak: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions for the staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner here? If you will speak to your petition and add what you like. Mr. Safaoui: I'm sorry? Mr. Morrow: Speak to your petition and add the comments or whatever you can to present to us. Ayman Safaoui, Cafe O Lait, 19622 Middlebelt, Livonia, Michigan 48252. I have no comments. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. So I'll ask the Commission. Ms. Srriley: Were you aware of the request by the Police Department to put parking blocks around? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. It's already on order. It should be here any day. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? One comment I would like to make or gel some input. Routinely, do the people that work at your store routinely park in the rear? Mr. Safaoui: Yes, and I own the carpet store next door. I have a lot of space available, so my employees, they've been parking at the carpet area. Mr. Morrow: Okay, because ... Mr. Safaoui: That's about four or five spaces. Mr. Morrow: You have a little more flexibility than we see on the plan. Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just wanted to double check that you don't plan on using any outdoor speakers. Is that correct? Mr. Safaoui: No speakers and no lights. Apel 28, 2009 25194 Ms. Scheel: Okay. Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing none, I will ... Ms. Smiley: Are you going to gel the parking waiver use? You said you own the place next door, right? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Ms. Smiley: But they suggested in here that you gel a parking waiver so that you don't become deficient in parking or so that the fourth unit in there is able to have some parking should it become occupied. Mr. Safaoui: I'm not sure what the landlords want to do, but the landlords also park at the Value Carpel. So that's another two parking spaces, him and his employee. We're saving about eight, exactly, plus ... Mr. Morrow: So you are not the landlord? Mr. Safaoui: No. I'm the owner of Cafe O Lad. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Mr. Taormina, are you ... Mr. Taormina: We have discussed this matter with the owner of the center. He is aware of it. He is actively pursuing filling that fourth space. He thinks he has a tenant lined up and he is aware that he either has to have some kind of a reciprocal parking arrangement with the adjoining properly owner or seek a variance. Mr. Morrow: Okay. So he'll have the option of going forward or waiting until things materialize a little bit more. Mr. Taormina: Correct. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: The only problem we have ... and you're talking about north, sir? The building north of where you're located? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Taylor: There's a big berm in there where you can't gel through there. When I drove over by there, it's all planting materials. You'd have to put some sort of a walkway through there. April 28, 2009 25195 Mr. Safaoui: They can walk in front from the carpel and the walkway, from the carpel through the Cafe. It's open. Its about three feet away from my window. Mr. Taylor: I thought I saw shrubbery and a berm along the sde on your north property line. Mr. Safaoui: It's open. It's about 34 feel. Mr. Taylor: Next to the building? Mr. Safaoui: Next to the building, yes. Mr. Taylor: I guess I missed that. Sorry. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, nobody came forward from the audience. I'll close the public hearing and ask for a motion. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #04-28-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lail requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebell Road, located on the east side of Middlebell Road between Sl. Marlins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 1, which properly is zoned C-2 and OS, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02-05 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the outdoor seating shall be confined to the existing concrete patio in front of the subject restaurant unit as illustrated on the Outdoor Seating Plan/Site Plan submitted by Cafe O Lait, received by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009; 2. That the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 12 seats; 3. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor sealing area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 4. That fencing of a type approved by the Inspection Department shall be maintained along the borders of the patio that adjoin parking areas; April 28, 2009 25196 5. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 6. That the owner of the shopping center shall apply to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance for deficient parking, as recommended in the correspondence dated April 20, 2009, from the Inspection Department, for the reason that the site as depicted and proposed would be deficient eight parking spaces if tie fourth tenant space were to be used for retail or like use; 7. That parking blocks shall be placed along the south and west sides of the patio area as an additional safety measure for the patrons as recommended in the correspondence dated April 3, 2009, from the Traffic Bureau; 8. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #397- 08, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2008-06- 02-17, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and 9. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of application for a Zoning Compliance Permit for the outdoor dining. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? April 28, 2009 25197 Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Normally, these outdoor dining requests are pretty easy to deal with because it's a pretty benign use, but this one concerned me a little bit because of the tight conditions that you have there as far as parking goes. You have a lot of parking in the back, which is not overly useable for your patrons, but it makes the parking in the front rather difficult. And this concerned me for that reason, but as I think about it, if you're restaurant does well and fills up all the parking spaces because all your seats are filled, it's only going to hurl your other business that's there and the hair cul salon. Its only hurling yourself if you have deficient parking. You seem to have an alternative parking arrangement next door that you've been able to move some of your cars to and if that's working for you and makes both your restaurant and your party store and the hair cut salon viable, then I'm fine with that. Mr. Safaoui: Yes, we're okay with that. Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#2 PETITION 2009-03-02-06 ONE UNDER BAR&GRILL Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing mining of the surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Mark, if this is approved, who would initiate the amendment of the agreement? Mr. Taormina: Our Law Department would do that. Mr. Morrow: So you would see to that should this pass? Mr. Taormina: Yes. That was drafted by our Law Department, and we've had a discussion with them already on this. April 28, 2009 25198 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are five items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. A review of our files shows a reciprocal easement agreement was entered into for this property; hence no reference to easements in the legal description. As regards to the address, 35780 Five Mile Road is the correct address for this building. 1 bust this provides the requested information." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from Livonia Fire and Rescue, dated April 9, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility on the property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 13, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with One Under Bar 8 Grill located at 35780 Five Mile Road. We have no objections orrec mmendabons to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Sludl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 23, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 3, 2009, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. The petitioner has proposed to add an outdoor seating area that will add an additional 40 outdoor seats to the existing restaurant. There is currently a cross parking agreement that allows for 156 spaces to be used by the current restaurant and its employees. The proposed outdoor seating area will require 14 additional parking spaces plus any additional employees that may be needed. This parking agreement would need to be adjusted to reflect the additional parking spaces required for the proposed outdoor seating. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. There is an additional letter from the Division of Police, dated April 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "This correspondence is regarding the request by One Under Bar 8 Grill for a patio service area. 1 have reviewed the plans that you emailed me and concur with your thoughts. An MLCC requirement is that a barrier encloses the area. This can be a fence or wall. Other than that, per the Michigan Liquor Control, the City can place whatever April 28, 2009 25199 restrictions they feel are appropriate. It is my recommendation that there only be an 'exit only' gate on the fence. There should be a means of ingress and egress for the patio area into the restaumntlbar. The drawings show a gate near the north door that empties out into the parking lot. By limiting access to the patio area only from the interior of the business, 1 think this would make it much easier to control patrons trying to walk out of the area with alcohol. 1 would also impose some noise restrictions for nighttime hours such as no loud music as there are homes immediately to the west of the business." The letter is signed by Donald E. Borieo, Sergeant. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Nowak? Seeing none, is the petitioner here this evening? Please come forward and give us your name and address. Brian Tominna, 35780 Five Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Good evening. Mr. Morrow: Do you have any remarks pertinent to your petition? Mr. Tominna: That gale that faces the north side is an exit only gale. You'd have to enter through the restaurant to gel into the patio. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Tominna, do you have a reason to have or need to have two ..exit only" gales out of that location as opposed tojust one? Mr. Tominna: Yeah. There's the one on the bottom. The other one is on lop. It's to enter back into the restaurant just in case if there's a, I don't know, a fire or something that people need two exits to leave from. From my awareness, that's what Liquor Control wanted to see also. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So your thought is that if there's a fire in the restaurant, they would exitthat door and then immediately go out the gale? Mr. Tominna: No, no. I'm just talking about patio purposes only. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. You already have an exit. On this plan, it shows the cornerlhere. Mark's highlighting it. Is that adequate? Mr. Tominna: I thought someone said that was an enter/exit, but it's only an exit only. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Tominna: I don't know ifsomeone said that. April 28, 2009 25200 Mr. Taormina: Actually, if I could clarify that? The plan is labeled "exit only" for the east gate, and ifs labeled "new exit and entrance gate' for the north gate. What the Police Department is recommending is that it be the same for both - exit only. So that would be self - latching and it would swing out and only be used for exit purposes for people leaving the patio. Mr. Morrow: If I'm reading this ... Mr. Taormina: I got that wrong. I'm sorry. You're right. Mr. Morrow: He doesn't want that going intothe parking lot. Mr. Taormina: That's correct. Mr. Morrow: So we're saying, the new gate connected with the patio, there would be no gate there. Mr. Tominna: Thais no problem. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Just so we understand. And the other recommendation was, I dont know if you saw this plan but the door that is right behind that, where the gate used to be that goes to the parking lot, based on the plan, he wants it swinging. Its swinging this way. He wants it to swing the opposite way so that it swings away from the patio. Mr. Tominna: Okay. That's no problem. Mr. Morrow: Rather than swinging into the patio, it swings toward the west. Do you follow? Mr. Tominna: Yes, sir. Mr. Morrow: Okay. I think chats just so you don't hit somebody coming up. Mr. Tominna: We wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we? Ms. Scheel: I just wanted you to repeat what you just said regarding the gate. You're saying that the top gate that is on our plan says ..new entrance and exit", that gate is going away totally? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Morrow: The one that's going into the north parking lot, towards the north parking, that's being deleted. Ms. Scheel: That's being deleted totally? There will be no gate there? April 28, 2009 25201 Mr. Morrow: Only the one on the east side will be egress only. So to gel to the patio, you have to come through the entrance. Ms. Scheel: Right. You come through the building. You actually go into the building to go out to the patio, but to exit out of the patio, you either have to go back into the restaurant or you go out the only exit gale. There would be just one exit gale off the patio. Mr. Morrow: That's correct. That's what we're driving at. Ms. Scheel: I just want to make sure I'm understanding that. Mr. Tominna: Real quick. I thought with Liquor Control, they wanted two gates. They're actually sending me some sort of verbiage on this stuff loo, but the only reason we included the two gales was because of Liquor Control. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chair, if I can address that? If that is the case, if for any reason a second access point is required, what we should do is label it for emergency egress only as opposed to allowing patrons to move freely through that area. That would be our recommendation. Mr. Morrow: So if it is in conflict with the Slate law, we will have to have it say ..emergency only,' but the officer indicates that we are abiding by the Liquor Control ordinance. Mr. Taormina: He's right. I did have the discussion with the Enforcement Division at the MLCC, who indicated to me that it's really the local municipality that decides how they want those openings provided. So if our safety codes require an additional exit, then we should label it "emergency egress only." Mr. Taylor: In speaking to the owner earlier, he was trying to gel golfers to come and sit in that area because he's not doing that great of a lunch business now that golfing is happening. If you shut the normal door that there's now on the north side, that's where golfers used to enter the restaurant. So now you're going to force them to go all the way around to the front. I don't know how convenient that's going to be for them to gel in that way because the whole design of the building was to bring golfers in on the north side of that door to come in and have a hamburger or whatever they want to have. I don't know how well that's going to work. Its going to be inconvenient. Let's put it that way. Also, when I talked to the owner, he said that they have no desire to have any speakers outside. I see in our resolution we speak to speakers, and I don't think that's a good idea. April 28, 2009 25202 "Item 6. That sound levels of any outdoor speakers shall be kept to a reasonable minimum." But I think the idea of putting the Item 5 that we had on the last agenda, 'that this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of any outdoor speakers" would be a good idea on this proposal. I don't have any problem with what he wants to do here. I think it's a good idea to try and generate business from the golf course, and that's what he's actually trying to do, a luncheon business. He does a very good business at night, but he needs luncheon business and that's what he's working for according to what he told me anyway. Mr. Tominna: I have no problem with not putting any speakers out there. I'm completely fine with that. Mr. Taylor: Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I agree with Mr. Taylor's idea that you gel a lot of business from that north door when you have golfers come in through that entranceway. Is it possible, you could tell me this based on your knowledge of the restaurant, to possibly leave that north door unobstructed with the patio, terminate the patio prior to that door, and then add an extra egress door so that you can service that patio with a new door. Is that a possibility? That way you would have the access to that north parking lot as well. Mr veghiazanan: If I may speak, I helped Brian put the design together for this. We did have a layout that did show that originally, and we thought that the requirement was that you had to enter the patio area through the bar. So if that's not a requirement, then we can certainly cut the gate across and attach it to the edge of the building and leave that door open. So, I guess, that's kind of where we're standing right now, is what is the requirement? Mr. Morrow: From the communications we had from the Police Department, I think they were trying to preclude people walking out of there with a drink into the parking lot. Of course, you know, the thing is, you could do the same from the east side, but I think we'll leave it up to the Commission to see what their desire is as far as how we send this forward. Mr veghiazanan: The original design did show that right across from the edge of the building to where that first brick pier is. We had a gate there, and that could be an "exit only' gate and that would be the only exit we would need. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Chair, Mr. Taormina, we have a number of outdoor dining patios at various restaurants that I'm sure have alcohol served Apel 28, 2009 25203 on them. Do they all exit from the bar area? Is that a requirement that you know of? Mr. Taormina: Yes, I think the majority of them, the ones that I can think of, clearly do, and they do not allow for customers to go in or out of any of the gates along the perimeter. Those are used for emergency exits. The one I'm thinking about is Claddagh. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. I'm not thinking about the gates so much as access from Mr. Taormina: Access from the interior of the bar, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, but cold One Under Bar & Grill, could the whole facility be considered a bar, or do we mean the bar area proper as far as where the drinks are served? Mr. Taormina: That I dont know. They would have to station somebody at the gale. There would have to be somebody there to control access at that point. Mr. Wilshaw: Bar Louie has an outdoor patio area. If someone was to take a drink out to the patio at Bar Louie, the doorway doesn't directly conned to the bar area. It goes through the dining area. Mr. Taormina: Oh. I see what you're saying. You're not talking about them interchangeably. Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, I'm not talking about the gates. Mr. Taormina: I think that a door anywhere from the interior, whether its considered the bar or part of the dining area, would satisfy that requirement. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That's what I was talking about. Mr. Taormina: As long as it mel the clearance, the aisle widths, from the inside. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So it could be an option that you could go back to your earlier design that you thought of, which is to put the fencing straight across allowing that northern door to be accessible as an entrance and exit to your restaurant and then add a new door to your patio area. That might solve both our gate issue and give you a little bit better access to your restaurant, if you're willing to consider that. Mr Veghiazanan: I'm not quite sure. Are you trying to say that you would like another door put in to where you can gel in and out of there April 28, 2009 25204 right through the restaurant, instead of actually physically like walking outside into the patio? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr Yeghiazanan: So let me clarify. You're proposing that we would have to bust through the existing building brick and install a door there? Mr. Wilshaw: I'm asking you is it possible to put a door there? You know your restaurant better than I do. Mr. Tominna: There's two windows right there where the two skinnier parts are on the lop of the diagram. So it would be pretty hard to put a door there because we'd have to saw cul through the wall and R's all brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So you're pretty much committed to this design. Mr. Tominna: It will cost a little more money to saw cul and then add an aluminum frame door. I'm guessing that it would probably cost an extra $5,000. Mr. Wilshaw: Well, okay. Then you do this with the realization that it's going to be difficult for patrons on the north side of the parking lot to access your restaurant, basically because they'll have to go all the way around your patio to get to the east entrance. Ms. Scheel: Can I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Are you contemplating? Mr. Tominna: I'm thinking right now. Ms. Scheel: While he's thinking, why is it that we dont want them entering in that spot? Why is it that there's a hesitation? Mr. Tominna: Well, real quick, the only thing I thought about with having people just entering on the patio by themselves is the fact that if they do that, usually how it works is when people come in, a hostess will greet them and then they'd seat them to their table to where they could allow the server to know that someone's here in their section. If people just come in and sit there, it's kind of like hit or miss. If someone doesn't see them, then I get yelled at and have to buy you guys dinner. Ms. Vartoogian: I have a suggestion. Could you put a piece of fence from where the existing building is across to the end where the fence ... so it would be straight across keeping that same entrance/exit as it Apel 28, 2009 25205 is, opening and closing, but then put an additional "exit only" gate on that one part? Mr. Tominna: Are you talking about that top portion up there? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. So just put a piece of fencing that would make it flush? Mr. Tominna: That's very easy to do. Ms. Vartoogian: That seems like it would solve all the issues. Mr. Tominna: That's pretty easy to do. So our people are either entering or exiting through a gate and then a door? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. Mr. Tominna: That's a lot easier to do than to saw cut through the wall. Mr. Morrow: Does everybody understand that? Ms. McDermott Could we go over that maybe with the highlighter on the map, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Well, if I understand Miss Vartoogian, her suggestion is to extend the fence across here and allow for a gate to enter the patio here? Ms. Vartoogian: An emergency exit only. Mr. Taormina: Yes, but then the question becomes, how do they enter into the patio area. He would either have to add a door here .... Mr. Tominna: That would have to be an exit/enter. Mr. Taormina: It would have to be an exit/enter. So he'd have to have somebody stationed there all the time. I think he has a concern regarding his operations if he doesn't have some control of the people coming in and out, which is what the current plan provides for. Its only drawback, as was pointed out by Mr. Taylor and Mr. Wilshaw, is that it forces golfers to walk 80 extra feet or whatever the distance around the patio would be. Mr. Taylor: Obviously, the Police Department has a concern about what's happening. So I think you're better off just doing it the way they asked you to do it and see if it works out all right. If it doesn't work out that way and you have some problems, quite possibly you could come back. But I think in the long run, you're better off complying with what they would like to have you do. Apel 28, 2009 25206 Mr. Tominna: And what way is that? I'm pretty lost right now. Mr. Taylor: I'm kind of lost too. Mr. Wilshaw: I think we're at one gate exit only. Mr. Tominna: That's no problem. Mr. Taormina: But again, there may be a requirement for a second egress only as well. Mr. Taylor: Right. And if it is, you're going to have acquiesce to that, to the Liquor Control Commission. Mr Yeghiazanan: One of the other reasons for the double gate at the lop was to be able to load band equipment inside the building through that side door. So that was one of the other reasons for having a gale there, so you could bring materials in for construction or for whatever. Mr. Morrow: Well, like you say, if the State law requires it, its academic what we've been talking about and we go back to the original plan. Also, the logic is that we don't want alcohol going towards the golf course. However, we do have the ability to bring the golf course to the east. So I'm going to leave it up to the Commission to see if we go along with what the officer recommended orwe stick with the original plan. Mr. Wilshaw: I'm going to ask a question that has nothing to do with gates or fences. The lighting that you're going to have for this patio area, are you going to use existing pole lights that are in what will be the landscaped area to illuminate the patio? Mr. Tominna: Yes. I was out there last night leaf blowing some cigarette butts out and it was really, really lit up with the existing lighting. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The landscaping that you show on your landscape plan appears quite substantial. You're going to have no problem irrigating that with sprinklers and keeping it trimmed and looking good? Mr. Tominna: Yes. That's why we have some of the .... Mr Yeghiazanan: We also included some electrical duplex receptacles to be installed in the brick piers to be able to bring hedge trimmers and other landscaping equipment out there to be able to maintain that. Then as far as irrigation is concerned, if there's a Apel 28, 2009 25207 need in the future, I think there's an opportunity to install a sprinkler system not only on this side but there's another plot of grass area on the opposite side of the walkway that could also be sprinkled to maintain that area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The height of the landscaping is going to be less than the height of the fence. Its going to be ornamental, small landscaping. Mr Yeghiazanan: Yes. If you look at the landscape plan and look at the material, R's mostly hostas and boxwoods and perennials. Mr. Wilshaw: I saw some burning bushes, which you can trim nicely. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Smiley: Do we have your name and address for the records? Mr Yeghiazanan: I am just helping Nt. Tominna out with the engineering. My name is Mark Yeghiazarian, 22156 Chase Drive, Novi, Michigan 48375. Ms. Smiley: Thank you. That made Marge very happy. Ms. Scheel: Commissioner Taylor had mentioned that he would like to have it so there's no outdoor speakers. Are you okay with that? Mr. Tominna: Unless he wants to come out and sing, but yes, I'm completely fine with that. Ms. Scheel: Okay. That's it. Ms. Smiley: Is there going to be music out there? Is this primarily for lunch? Mr. Tominna: Yes. There's going to be no music out there whatsoever. Ms. Smiley: Okay. In the evening hours, considering you're in Michigan, how late do you think you'll have the patio open? Mr. Tominna: Probably like to 10:00 p.m., I'm guessing. Not loo late if people are out there casually eating or something, but definitely not to 2:00 a.m. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, I'll go to the audience and ask if there's anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against the granting of this petition? If you'll come forward and give us your name and address please. Apnl 28, 2009 25208 Catherine Hloros, 15153 Country Club Drive, Livonia. Good evening. I live in close proximity to this establishment in question. I want to make it clear that I don't have any objections to bars or meeting places, but other establishments of this type are always in commercial areas. They're not in residential areas. You can look on Haggerty Road, Five Mile and Farmington. They're all surrounded by parking lots and buildings that are not open at that time of the night or so forth. The band that they have playing on Friday and Saturday nights is so loud that my windows vibrate, and I have newer double paned windows. And that's with the windows shut. So what's it going to be like in the summertime when I want to open up my windows? Ours is a working class neighborhood, yet no consideration has been given to this fact by the establishment, the City or the Livonia Police Department. The language that comes out of that parking lot is atrocious, and it would bum the ears off a sailor. And the word of choice is always the 'T' word and it's not just males that are doing all the cursing. Sometimes they'll go out in the parking lot and scream just to scream. One night they had a contest as to who could scream the loudest. Vehicles scream out of that parking lot at a high rale of speed with fires screeching. The radios are blaring. Their cd's are blaring. And I dont sleep well at night so I'm up a lot. I am able to witness the activities outside the building and in that parking lot. I have yet to see a Livonia Police car go down Five Mile between Levan and Farmington. So I find it very humorous that they have no objections to this plan because I don't know how they'd know what it's like. This forum would have been totally unnecessary in my opinion if the establishment had been operated properly and with the neighboring residents in mind. There is no reason that any band has to play that bud. I don't feel any of us that are here would have any complaints about music if it was held to a reasonable level. As far as the parking lot antics, all that would have been necessary is if they had employed security for the parking lot. And if they do have security, they better hire another firm. Holding to that rule that you're either inside or gone would have prevented the current and ongoing situation. If the situation as it stands now is intolerable, outdoor seating would be just more of the same. I guess I'm a little disappointed. This is the first meeting that I've ever attended. It seems to me like you've made your decision before we even came in. So just listening to the plans and how you're going to adjust the seating and how you're going to do the outside, pretty much says to me that you're going to do it either way. But l really feel that it was necessary for me to voice my opinion, and I invite everyone of you to come sit in our driveway on a Friday or Saturday night and listen for yourself. April 28, 2009 25209 And this goes on unfil after 2:00 a.m. because they remain in the parking lot. The parking lot is not cleared. They leave the building but they do not clear that parking lot. They sit there and they party and they scream and they yell and they swear. So if any of you doubt what I have to say, I truly invite you to come sit in my driveway and listen for yourselves what it's like to live there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, ma'am, I just have a comment. As I said earlier, we are a recommending body. Part of our job is to take a petition, adjust it or do with it as we think would be the best option should it be approved. The Council will have the final say. We try to touch a lot of bases so that they dont have to. As far as the noise is concerned, there is a ... I don't know what the name of the ordinance is. Mark, there's a sound ordinance that is regulated by decibels. Ms. Hloros: Well, its not endorsed. It's not being enforced, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Well, probably no one has taken a reading yet. We'll have the petitioners give us some input as far as the comments that you made. So we dont know how this is going to come out, but part of our job is to clean it up and the Council will ultimately decide. We'll give them the best plan we possibly can. That's why we're going back and forth trying to clean it up. We may or may not approve it, but either way, it will go to the Council. If we deny it, they have 10 days in which to appeal that decision. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions of this lady? Ms. McDermott: I don't have any questions, but I might suggest we do have quiet hours in Livonia. I believe it's after 11:00 p.m. So, have you tried to call the police? Ms. Hloros: Oh, yes, and some of the answers were, well, what exactly are they doing? How many are there? And, maybe you should move. Ms. McDermott: Okay. Then what I would suggest, as Chairman Morrow has said, is that we encourage some type of a test on the decibel level, you know, maybe in a random time frame, a few different times. I know that on my street when we've had some rather loud parties, and I'm not against parties and fun, but when they're still going on at 2:00 a.m. I have called and I do expect the same rights to be given to everyone. Quiet hours, like I said, I believe its 11:00 p.m. unless I'm incorrect. You can Mr. Morrow: April 28, 2009 Mr. Taormina: 25210 Mr. Morrow: correct me. But after that, the noise level should be dropped Ms. Marietti: and it should not be heard across the parking lot into a Mr. Taormina: neighborhood. That's just my opinion, and I think that we do have the ability to try and help with that. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: This is a waiver of use. It is not a permitted use. However, we can give them waiver to do it. Part of the reason for the waiver is because it allows us to lake into consideration how it impacts the intensity of that business because it's not a permitted use. So your remarks are very germane to this Commission, and we'll give the petitioner an opportunity to get some feedback as it relates to your problems because he does have to keep control of his business. His business is to be conducted inside, and if there are problems in the parking lot, we certainly don't want you to move. Okay? Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else? Then I'll ask the petitioner to come up and respond. Oh, there's more people. I'm sorry. Diane Marietti, 15044 Fairway. Its whoever. It's residents, correct? Ms. Smiley: Yes. Ms. Marietti: Could you tell me how many homes were given notification of this meeting? I never got one. I heard about it. I live due south of the establishment. Mr. Morrow: Mark? Mr. Taormina: It would be everyone within 300 feel of the property. We have a list of those homes. I don't know if I have them with me or not. That information may be in our file upstairs in the Department. Mr. Morrow: Its 300 feel, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Yes, its all the properties within 300 feet. Mr. Morrow: Are you further than 300 feet away? Ms. Marietti: I have a bird's eye view of the east entrance from my house. Mr. Taormina: What's your address? Ms. Marietti: 15044. Apel 28, 2009 25211 Mr. Taormina: Whalstreel? Ms. Marietti: Fairway. I concur with what this lady said. Al 11:00 p.m., 12:00 a.m., once traffic drops down on Five Mile, we hear the conversations in the parking lot. I have called the police but unfortunately what usually happens is by the time the police get, there ft's quiet or people go back inside. If it were just for the lunch hour, I wouldn't have a problem. Mr. Taormina: Are you on the south side of Fairway? Ms. Marietti: Yes, well, on the south side, Fairway runs east. Mr. Taormina: Your property is more than 300 feet away. Ms. Marietti: The house across the street from me? Mr. Taormina: The houses on the north side of Fairway would have received notice. Ms. Marietti: I live across the street. Mr. Taormina: The houses across the street would not have received notice. Ms. Marietti: Okay. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Marietti: But it's very loud and I can tell you what the conversations are, even the day that accident happened less than year ago from there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you. Edward Risk, 15125 Country Club. Good evening. They're my neighbors. I've got five post -it notes here; I could have 100. First of all, just three days, at 1:22 a.m., all kinds of noise out there. Racket, racket. What they do is, they keep their front doors open to the establishment, so that lets out all the noise. They had the loud band like they said Friday and Saturday, and they also have it on other days loo, not just Friday and Saturday, but Friday and Saturday are the worst. But they have the doors open. I mean they have to buy better smoke equipment or something. So that's the problem. You can hear the noise coming right from the band, loud, screaming. Then also when they have a banquet going on upstairs, and this is all after 11:00 p.m. quiet time. That's a joke. There's no quiet time. They didn't even Apnl 28, 2009 25212 mention the motorcycles, in and out, racing up and down the street, the cars. On 4/17 a12:08 a.m., a bus, similar to a Livonia senior bus, was parked there and everybody going in from the bar at eight minutes after 2:00 in the morning making all kinds of noise, yelling and screaming. They never seem to want to stop d. I just would like, and I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly, Mr. Tominna, and he lives in West Bloomfield. I'm sure at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, I would just like it as quiet as his neighborhood is. It's ridiculous. I did call, and many times I called. Its Officer Hanes. 3!7/09 at 1:10 in the morning. He did say the same thing, more or less. Well, you want to have a compliant. I said, why don't you just go there and listen? So I dont even know if they go. I also mentioned to him, I said, is it because the City owns part of that and you're giving them a free nide? Its not right what theyre doing, and when they have a banquet up there like I say, and that's not as constant as the restaurant obviously, but when they do, they open up the doors up on the balcony and it's unbelievable the noise. Its not 11:00 p.m. Its 1:00, 2:00, 2:30 in the morning. And the things that go on in the parking lot are absolutely true, among other things I've heard. You could guess. Its just not right. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: Well, we certainly appreciate your input Mr. Risk: And if you guys do approve it, I'm going to tell you right now so its on the record, I'm going to call the Police. And I'm going to tell them, yeah, I did make the complaint. This is it here. I'm going to call them every day, every night until this stops because I don't think this should go on. They have the doors open to the establishment all night and the noise is unbelievable coming out of there. Three days ago, we heard the band louder than . I could hear the cymbals. I could hear the whole everything, the drums, the whole thing. I like to sit out there quiet. I just, like I say, we would like @ as quiet as the gentleman's neighborhood in West Bloomfield. How's that? Mr. Morrow: What we have before us is the outdoor patio. A lot of what you said is a condition of what's going on inside. Mr. Risk: It's no control. They should have security. They should be able to go out and tell them, quiet, keep the doors closed. And when they have the banquet upstairs, they have to keep it closed after 11:00 p.m. or so. And if they are going to stay till 10:00 p.m. with the outdoor restaurant make sure that it is exactly 10:00 p.m. and they close it down, because they're not doing anything and the police aren't doing anything. They have their little April 28, 2009 25213 checkpoints on Newburgh and Levan getting people for 5 - 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, but they won't do this. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you, sir. But before you go, Commissioner Scheel? Ms. Scheel: If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question. The evenings that there are not bands playing, do you find the noise level loud then? Mr. Risk: Its still pretty loud. Ms. Scheel: Its still prefly loud. Mr. Risk: Nolas loud. Ms. Scheel: Not as loud as the evenings when the bands are playing? Mr. Risk: Exactly. Friday and Saturday are horrible, but they also sometimes kick it up on weekdays too, but not as bad. Ms. Scheel: Okay, but when you notice it the most is when the bands are there, the live performances? Mr. Risk: Yes, because like I say, they keep the doors open, but it is still continuous. It's still loud even during the week. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Risk: Because I lake my dog out late at night and, you know, there's motorcycles. I mean if the police would just get there like about ten to 2:00 a.m. and just sitthere. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much for your input. I would like the petitioner to share with some of his comments in response to what the neighbors have said. Ms. Vartoogian: There's another resident. Mr. Morrow: What I should have said, if you're going to speak - it's my fault, not yours. Normally, we ask the people to line up there so they're in close proximity. That's my fault, not yours. That's why. Its not that we dont want to hear from you. I just didn't see anyone there. Thank you. Jim Koch, 15041 Fairway. Good evening. We're directly south of the east entrance of the One Under Bar & Grill. I can look out directly at the existing upper and lower levels, where I believe they're going to be putting in this new patio area. The upper deck Apel 28, 2009 25214 extends about 5 to 8 feet out with poles that go directly down to the lower level and that's put in cement. I'm a little confused because I can't quite see the diagram up there. Is this 1,700 square foot parking lot area going to go east and then north because I don't really understand that. Mr. Morrow: Are you familiar with the grass that's out there now where the light poles are? Mr. Koch: Yes, I am. Mr. Morrow: That's where @'s going to go. Its going to replace the grass with landscaping around it. Its not really infringing on anything but the grassy area. Mr. Koch: Okay. If I'm not mistaken, the existing lights that are out there are basically pole lights that you would use for outside parking. I think they're continuing to use those so that there should not be any additional problem with that. And they say there's going to be no outside speakers. It wasn't clear to me if there's going to be at any time an outside band. That has not been addressed. Mr. Morrow: We will add that if you'll feel comfortable with that. Mr. Koch: Also, on the second level where they have the banquet facilities, those doors are generally open at all times of the year. People can go out on the deck and literally hoot and holler up, have a great time. Its not so good for all the people that live around there. There's no restrictions at that point either, and anyone who is going to be in the banquet facilities, there's no banner that will prevent them from going upstairs, through the restaurant downstairs, into the new area unless they lock doors to just sit there and continue hating their party on a lower level as opposed to an upper level, which is, of course, the same sound level, the same volume. What the people who have come up before have said is exactly correct. We live directly across the street and so we get a lot of noise. I guess it's fair to say that we have really good sound insulation in our house and we have really good windows, and we can hear the banquet facility all the time with the bands and the people yelling. That's not uncommon. The other thing that's a problem is generally about the time the bar closes up and the employees get out also, that's when it turns into a sort of a race track. You've got people out there hooting and hollering it up and seeing roughly how fast they can get out onto Five Mile screeching the tires as much as possible. All those things really speak against having another outside patio because there is no volume control, sound April 28, 2009 25215 control now. I saw on the diagram that there's going to be a visual barrier but nothing was discussed at all about some kind of sound barrier, a bene, whatever. The existing facilities, if you were to go into the lower parking lot, you actually go down and in. I'm not an engineer but I would assume that they would have to have some kind of additional drainage for that. A time frame was mentioned between Apnl and October. I didn't really quite understand if that is supposed to be the outside seating area time because the facility is open all year round. They've done a very good job, since we've been in the same house for 24 years, and we've looked out at all the businesses that have come and gone. They have been the only ones that have actually successfully stayed around. Mr. Morrow: The deed restriction applies only to parking. It has nothing to do with operation of the patio. Normally, that's done as the weather permits. Mr. Koch: Okay. There was mention about 14 additional parking spaces having to be created. Is that because of the new patio? It's going to replace 14 parking spaces? Mr. Morrow: It would mean that they would have to adjust the agreement between the property owner and the City where the golf course is. They would have to adjust it so that they can use those parking spaces. Mr. Koch: Okay. I also just wanted to ask, if they're going to do random decimal testing, that they do it on a weekend. Mr. Morrow: That was something we are going to pursue. Obviously, a large measure of your concern goes with our noise ordinance and 9 sounds to me like we're exceeding the allowable decibel. We'll see if we can find out a little bit more information about that. Mr. Koch: I don't know what the allowable decibel is. Mr. Morrow: I certainly don't either, but the ordinance does and its very easily recorded. Mr. Koch: Okay. I don't know if there is a standard that the City uses that says you cannot go above this decibel level at 11:00 at night. Mr. Morrow: You might speak to this a little bit better, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: There are decibel limitations as well as time factors as part of the noise control ordinance and that is enforced through our Inspection Department. April 28, 2009 25216 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Good. Thank you for that input. I was wondering who was responsible for that. It's our Inspection Department. Did we answer it? Mr. Koch: I doral believe so. I sort of got a general answer. Is it Engineering that's responsible for that? Mr. Morrow: No, no. The Inspection Department. We would request Inspection to go out randomly. Is that how it works, Mark? Mr. Taormina: The Police Department as well as the Inspection Departments Ordinance Enforcement Division handle these things. There's a whole chapter within our Code of Ordinances that deals with noise control that I can provide you with. Rather than give you specifics, I can give youlhe citation and you can look at that. Mr. Koch: Okay. I just also would also like to mention that this 1,700 square foot area that they want to make, by comparison, many of the houses in that same area have pretty much the exact same square footage. So even though it doesn't sound like much, it really is a large area. That's something that I think should be thought about and brought into consideration. Mr. Morrow: Did you say 1,700? Mr. Koch: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. Mr. Koch: Thats 10 tables with four chairs each for a maximum of 40 people. Mr. Morrow: I looked at that area today and it didn't look anywhere near the size of a house. Mr. Koch: Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Gus Hloros, 15153 Country Club. Good evening. My biggest deal is after 2:00 in the morning. I dont see why they cant have a security guard or a bouncer or somebody there to make sure these people are out of that parking lot by 2:10, 2:05 a.m. I don't know what time is last call. What time is last call usually? 1:40 a.m. So I think by 2:00 a.m. that parking lot should be cleared. My wife and what everybody said is true. The noise is ridiculous. He's done a great job with the place because I like boulders. I've got a lot Apel 28, 2009 25217 of boulders around my house. He's done a great job with the landscaping and everything, but my biggest deal is after 2:00 a.m. what they do in the parking lot. It's just terrible. Like they said basically the same thing, the swearing, the 'f' word. You hear that constantly between the men and the gals and the flying out of the parking lot with the speeding and everything. I'm not an ogre or nothing because I used to go to bars myself, you know, and I used to party and have a good time loo. So I can understand that, but the point is, now you're in a residential area and it just gels crazy there, you now. So if Mr. Tominna could at least have a bouncer there maybe at 2:00 in the morning and make sure the parking lot is cleared out or a security guard, that would help out tremendously. They do it in other bars. I don't think it would be a big deal, and maybe save some lives because one day someone is going to get killed flying out of there, or there might be a big fight in the parking lot and something could happen to someone in the parking lot. They could gel shot or stabbed or whatever. But it would be a good idea to maybe have a bouncer and go into that parking lot and make sure they clear the parking lot out and get all the people out of there. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: I appreciate it. As long as you're up there, just so we go back to square one, the Commission is looking at an outdoor patio, which we assume is for low profile quiet dining. It sounds like from listening to the residents, that many, if not all of the problems, emanate from inside. So with your coming forward, you're enlightening the properly owners ofyour concerns. Mr. Hloros: Yes, I'm concerned about the elements after 2:00 in the morning. I mean they've been out there until 2:30, 3:00, 3:30 in the morning sometimes, and I mean I'm not going to go out there. What am I going to do? I go out there, I'll end up getting in a fight or if something happens and my wife says, Ah, don't go out there. And I don't like calling the police. We've called them a couple times, but you know, you do what you have to do, but I don't like doing that. I'd like the owner to maybe, Mr. Tominna, to gel a bouncer there. Gel somebody to clear that parking lot. That's my biggest concern. Mr. Morrow: You can always talk to the Commission. We're not hear to .... Mr. Hloros: Do we ever have a chance to talk to those people or do we just talk to you and you just recommend what we said here tonight? Mr. Morrow: They're hearing everything you say. They're going to have an opportunity to respond to what you say. Apel 28, 2009 25218 Mr. Hloros: Oh, okay, I understand. So they're going to hear everything we said tonight. Mr. Morrow: Well, they're here. Mr. Hloros: I'm talking about Laura Toy and everybody else. Are they going to .... Mr. Morrow: They will have their own hearing. All we're doing is getting it so R can go forward with a recommendation, as I said in my remarks. It will ultimately be decided by the Council and you'll have the opportunity to .... Mr. Hloros: Oh. We'll have the opportunity to talk to them? Mr. Morrow: Absolutely. Mr. Hloros: Oh, see, I didn't know that. I thought we were just talking to you and then you pass it on to them. So lheyll notify us when we can talk to them, correct? I'm on the listso I got the letter. Mr. Taormina: Lel me clarify that. It depends on what action is taken this evening by the Planning Commission. If the Planning Commission denies the petition and if the applicant chooses to appeal that decision, then, yes, you will be notfied of the appeal hearing. If, on the other, the Planning Commission this evening approves this petition, it will automatically go to the Council for a study session, followed by a regula r voting meeting, but there is no requirement that you be sent notices. So what you would need to do if they choose to approve this this evening, is track when the item will appear on the Council's agenda because there is no requirement for additional noUfcalion. Mr. Hloros: How do I do that? Mr. Taormina: You can call either the Planning Department, my office, or the City Council office and we'll tell you when this item is scheduled. Mr. Hloros: Can you give me your number before I leave. How long before they make their decision? Will that be tonight? Mr. Taormina: It could be. Mr. Hloros: Your recommendation, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Before you leave, you will know if its approved, denied or tabled. That's the three options we have. April 28, 2009 25219 Mr. Hloros: Okay. Good enough. Thankyou. Ms. Manetti: Is there an initial request from the Bar & Grill to have outdoor sealing or is this because with them having already the plans and everything, was there something prior to this? Mr. Morrow: No. They fled a petition with the plans as to what they want to do. This is our first look at it. Ms. Manetti: Oh, okay. I thought there was an initial request for outdoor and then they come with plans. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Okay. If there are no further people coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. We'd like the Petitioner's input as to some of the things you've heard tonight. Mr. Tominna: For one, I'd just like to apologize. Their concerns mean a lot to me, but there are Livonia Police in my parking lot every single day. They do their routine checks, come through, come in, come out. I usually always see them go through, say hi, ask them if there's something going on and always there's a no. I do have security on staff. We do our last call at 140 a.m. The employees are typically there until about 3:00 - 4:00 in the morning cleaning the inside. So none of my staff races out of the parking lot. I apologize for customers doing that, but you know, once people gel in their cars, you're not really in control of what they do. I don't know what more to say. Mr. Morrow: No, talktothe Commission. Mr. Tominna: I'm usually at work about 110 to maybe 120 hours a week. So the way I run my establishment is a reflection of me, and I try to be as personal and nice to our customers as I possibly can be. So this was kind of a new thing for me, but we'll definitely try to watch the noise things. As far as the patio goes, we have no thoughts on putting any speakers or live music out there whatsoever. If there is a time restriction, that people should be off the patio, I have no problem with that either, but typically patios are more quiet where people are just kind of sitting there talking. It would be kind of hard for me at 10:00 p.m. to tell a couple to just leave or something, but I have no problem with a time restriction on the patio due to noise levels. Mr. Morrow: The only comment I would make on that is, as I said earlier, when we look at the plans, we want outdoor dining. I think people sitting down having a dinner, maybe a drink or two, but all the problems we heard here tonight are not related to the patio per se. It's all emanating from the operation whether its Apel 28, 2009 25220 the music or what goes on in the parking lot. That's the concern. Mr. Tominna: I know that this is off topic because it doesn't concern the patio, but there are plenty of Livonia Police Officers that frequent my parking lot. I have talked to a few other restaurant/bar owners in the area, and they say it's just common police stuff that they do because I thought I was doing something wrong. They say, no, its just typical because sometimes there's some activities going on in the parking lot. So a few other restaurant'bar owners that I've spoken to said this is just typical Livonia Police Department check-ups, check -ins, whatever they're called, but I have no problem with decibel levels being read at the restaurant, but I would like to apologize to them for the noise levels. Mr. Taylor: Do you keep your front doors open, as it was indicated, when the music is playing? Mr. Tominna: Usually at 1:30 a.m., we open both doors because there are customers that are just leaving. Mr. Taylor. Is the music still playing at that time? Mr. Tominna: Usually the music ends between 120 and 1:30 a.m., sometimes they end a little sooner, sometimes they end a little later, but that's just typically on how if they start a little sooner or if they start a little later. Mr. Taylor: I know the people that are here are certainly in their place to be. Unfortunately, we do not have as much control over the Administration and the Council. The Council can ask the Administration for a report and recommendation. The Council can ask that there be a decibel reading taken. They can ask, like I say, for a report from the Law Department and from the Police Department. As the Chairman said, we're here looking at outside seating, which normally would close down at dark because there's not that many lights that they have. So what we're really doing is just trying to help his gentleman along with a lunchtime business because I know at lunchtime, I've been in there and there's very few people there and there s no noise there at lunchtime, that's for sure. I can understand where you're coming from, but we do not have the authority to do what you would like to have us do. All we can do is either say yeah or nay on letting him have 40 extra seats outside to help his business. We certainly are sympathetic for what you're saying. I've sal on the Council and heard that, and the Council has a lot Apel 28, 2009 25221 of power for what they can do, and chats the meeting you should come to, the Council meeting. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Any otherquestions ofthe Commission? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just want to clarify that you said that no outdoor speakers, no outdoor band. Is that correct? No live entertainment outside at all. You plan on none of that. Mr. Tominna: Yes. Ms. Scheel: And you would be okay if we put a time limit on outdoor sealing? Mr. Tominna: That would be fine. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Tominna: You're welcome. Mr. Morrow: A motion is in order. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by McDermott, and adopted, it was #04-29-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17, which property is zoned 02, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02- 06 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Patio Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 19, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Fence Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to concurrence with the Police Department and the Inspection Department; Apel 28, 2009 25222 3. That the Landscape Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to the following stipulations: - That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; - That underground sprinklers shall be provided for all the landscaped areas surrounding the patio dining area; - That all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; - That sizes and quantities of plant materials shall be reviewed by the Planning Department prior to installation; 4. That the outdoor patio seating shall be confined to the area designated for that purpose on the above -referenced plans and the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 40 seats; 5. That trash receptacles shall be provided for the outdoor seating area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 6. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers or outdoor live entertainment in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 7. That the outdoor seating patio hours shall be limited to 10:00 p.m. seven days a week; 8. That the number of parking spaces allocated for use by the subject full service restaurant and banquet facility on the combined sites of both the golf course and the restaurant/banquet facility shall be in accordance with the total parking requirement for the facility based upon the number of interior seats, outdoor seats and the number of employees in the restaurant; 9. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #298- 00, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2000-02- 02-12, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and April 28, 2009 25223 10. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that nofice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Ms. Scheel: I have a couple things I want to ask. Commissioner Taylor, would you mind on #6 if we also stated that there would be no outdoor live entertainment, as well as no outdoor speakers? Mr. Taylor: No problem. It's a good idea. Thank you. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And then I also wanted to double check that the changes that were talked about earlier regarding the fence and ingress and egress, is that going to be taken care of, Mr. Taormina? Mr. Taormina: If I understand the modified language of condifion #2, that would make it subject to the approval of the Police Department and Inspection Department. Mr. Taylor: Yes. I added with concurrence of the Police Department, could be and Inspection Department. Ms. Scheel: I'd also like to put a time limit on the outdoor patio. I guess I'm going to throw out 11:00 p.m. and see what the rest of the Commissioners think about that, if you think that's too late. Mr. Taylor: My opinion would be that it might be a little late. It usually gets dark around 10:00 p.m. at the latest time in summer. April 28, 2009 25224 Ms. Scheel: I'm okay with 10:00 p.m. I was throwing out a suggeston. Mr. Taylor: I would think 10:00 p.m. would be a good time. Ms. Scheel: You think 10:00 p.m. would be better? Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley, do you agree with that? Ms. Smiley: I don't have a problem with that. Mother Nature will probably dictate that anyway, but 10:00 p.m. seems reasonable. Mr. Morrow: So you concurwith the amendments? Ms. Smiley: Yes. That's fine. Mr. Morrow: Is there any other discussion? Mr. Taormina: May I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Sure. Mr. Taormina: Do you want the same time restriction to apply seven days a week? Ms. Scheel: I'm fine with seven days a week. Mr. Taylor: I'm sorry. I didn't hear. Ms. Smiley: If it's seven days a week, do you want it restricted to 10:00 P.M.? Mr. Taylor: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley? Ms. Smiley: That's fine. Mr. Morrow: So the maker and the supporter agree with those changes, Commissioner Scheel. Is there anything else? Then I will ask for a roll call. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor, Smiley, Scheel, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYES: McDermott ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None April 28, 2009 25225 Mr. Morrow: Just for the benefit of the audience, this Will go forward with an approving recommendation to the City Council. What also will go forward will be a lot of the comments that were made tonight. As I said in my earlier remarks, this is a waiver of use which means that it intensifies the use even though the culprit seems to be coming from the inside. As Commissioner Taylor indicated, a lot of the problems that you mentioned here tonight fall within the realm of the City Council, who will ultimately decide this. So on that note, we appreciate you coming out. I think its been productive so that the Petitioner hears your concerns and you've had a chance to gel them on the record as this petition moves forward to the City Council. As Mr. Taormina said, advise either Planning that you'd like to be notified when the Council takes action on it or call the Council Office. Mr. Taylor: Mr. Chairman, if I may, that Council number, if you have a pencil, is 466-2249. Mr. Morrow: As long as you have that pencil there, the petition is 2009-03- 02-06. 1 hope that suffices for the time being. ITEM#3 PETITION 2009-03-06-01 LANGUAGE AMENDMENT MAYORAL VETO OF PETITIONS Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Article XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. Mr. Taormina: Council Resolution #98-09 refers to and requests that the City Planning Commission conduct a Public Hearing regarding proposed amendments to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. This proposed language amendment stems from a 2002 appellate court decision in connection with a lawsuit that was brought on by Livonia Hotels, L.L.C. in connection with a request to operate a full service restaurant and to utilize a Class C liquor license within an existing building in the City of Livonia. Hooters of Livonia had proposed to operate a facility within a portion of the Quality Inn Hotel on Plymouth Road. In March of 2001, the City Council April 28, 2009 25226 granted the approvals. However, shortly thereafter, the approvals were overturned by a veto of the Mayor, which, at the time, was believed to be his authority under the city charter. In June of 2001, the owners filed a complaint in Wayne County Circuit Court. Four months later, after hearing arguments, the trial court dismissed the case without prejudice ruling that proper legal procedures had been followed. In an appeal to the Michigan Court of Appeals, the plaintiff challenged the trial court's decision on a number of grounds, including the legal authority of the Mayor to veto the City Council's approval of a special use. Ultimately, the Appeals Court found that the Circuit Court had erred in concluding that the Mayor had the power to veto the Council's decisions approving the waiver uses. While the City Charter grants broad veto power to the Mayor, the Zoning Enabling legislation directs that the Zoning Ordinance shall specify the body or official that is charged with reviewing special land uses and granting those approvals. In its current form, the Zoning Ordinance provides that an application for waiver use is to be reviewed first by the Planning Commission, which makes a recommendation, and that the City Council shall have the final approving authority. The Zoning Ordinance is silent with respect to the role of the Mayor in this process. As such, the Court of Appeals determined that the Enabling legislation prevails over the City's charter provisions in this respect, and since the Zoning Ordinance grants no stated authority to the Mayor to overturn the Council's approval of a waiver use, the decision of the Council is final. Although the Appeals Court had decided in favor of the hotel, the text of the Court's decision had stated that "the Oty Officials in Livonia may wish to specifically provide for Mayoral veto power in the future" In that regard, the Law Department has prepared an amendment to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance that would provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pefifions. We've attached to your staff analysis language that would amend both of those sections. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Very good, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: That's the abbreviated version. If you have any questions, Mr. Nowak is here to answer them. Mr. Morrow: I will ask Mr. Nowak if anyone corresponded with us in regard to this? Mr. Nowak: No, we have no correspondence on this item. Mr. Morrow: Because the Planning Commission is the petitioner, we will go right to the audience and see if there is anyone in the audience Apel 28, 2009 25227 wishing to speak for or against the granting of this pe00on. Seeing no one, I'm going to dose the public hearing and ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: I believe this is appropriate verbiage that we have in front of us, and therefore I'm going to make an approving resolution. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Scheel, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0430-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Arficle XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pelifions, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-06-01 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed language amendment will clarify that waiver use and rezoning approvals are subject to mayoral veto; 2. That the proposed language amendment will expressly set forth the role of the Mayor in the rezoning and waiver use approval process; and 3. That the proposed language amendment will provide for a check and balance system in regards to the approval of rezoning and waiver use petitions. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolufion adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, if I may just recognize Al Nowak for his hard work on this petition and the very thorough analysis that he's done to help summarize the long history on this issue. Mr. Morrow: It was lough research but you've got it down into a nutshell so your Commission can understand it. Apel 28, 2009 25228 Mr. Nowak: That's very much appreciated. Mr. Morrow: Thank you, Al. ITEM #4 PETITION 2009-02-08-04 MONTESSORI CENTER Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20. Mr. Taormina: This is located in Section 20 which is a square mile bounded by Five Mile Road to the north, Newburgh Road to the west, Schoolcraft Road and the 1-96 Expressway to the South and portions of Yale Avenue to the east. This property is on the east side of Newburgh between Schoolcraft and Five Mile Roads. Its one of several contiguous parcels that are owned by the Felician Sisters, a site that includes St. Mary Mercy Hospital, Ladywood High School, Senior Clergy Village, Mother House, Angela Hospice Care Center, as well as Madonna University. The Montesson Center of Our Lady is currently housed and operated out of the Mother House. The proposed new school would serve preschool and kindergarten -aged students. Its new location would be located one-third of a mile north of Schoolcraft, between the Mother House and Newburgh Road. I'll show you an aerial photograph of the location. Its actually on the north side of an existing driveway that extends east from Newburgh Road. The size of the new facility would be approximately 16,480 square feel. As you can see from this slide, its an "L" -shaped building. There would be a circular one- way drive that would enable students to be dropped -off and picked -up close to the main entrance of the building. There is also a playground that is shown in a rather large area that extends along the north as well as the east sides of the school. A Floor Plan was submitted with the application. It shows six classrooms, a multipurpose room, as well as staff and administrative areas that include the business offices, a reception area, kitchen, storage space, conference room and other support areas. In terms of parking, the ordinance requires one space for each employee as well as sufficient off-street space for the safe and convenient loading and unloading of students. There are 16 employees. There are actually 63 parking spaces provided for the facility's use, and those spaces Apel 28, 2009 25229 are located south of this driveway within an existing parking area. The teachers and administrators currently utilize this area for parking. The trash collection would be done internally. There would not be any trash enclosure provided. This is the Landscape Plan. You can see that it provides details on the location and species of all the plant materials that would be provided around the new facility. In terms of the architecture, the architect is here to describe this in greater detail. This is a rendering that I think shows it very well, but its a predominantly brick building with cast stone elements along the base as well as some of the accents around the building. You can also pick out from this rendering the structural canopy that extends out and covers the entranceway and would be supported by columns finished with the same cast stone material. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated February 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. It is noted that the site plan is for construction of a new school building just west of the existing convent site. An address for this new building has not yet been assigned. 36800 Schoolcraft is the address for the existing convent building. From the site plan, it appears that the new building will face Schoolcraft Road and would therefore normally be assigned a Schoolcraft Road address. However, the Angela Hospice facility is directly south of this building and is assigned a Newburgh Road address. In addition, this new building will be directly adjacent to a driveway which utilizes Newburgh Road. For these masons, if and when an address is assigned for this school building, it will be assigned a Newburgh Road address. It should be noted that permits will be required from the Engineering Division for this project." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 26, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct an elementary school on property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1) If subject building(s) are to be provided with an automatic sprinkler system, an onsite hydrant shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire Department connection. (2) Adequate hydrants shall be provided and located with a maximum spacing of 300 feet between hydrants. Most remote hydrant shall flow 1,500 GPM with a residual pressure of 20 Apel 28, 2009 25230 PSI. (3) This division requests that the entrance drive be posted Fire Lane — No Parking. (4) Any curves or comer of streets shall accommodate emergency vehicles with a turning radius of fifty-three feet wall-to-wall and an inside turning radius of twenty-nine feet six inches. (5) Fire lanes shall be not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width, able to withstand live loads of fire apparatus, and have a minimum of 13 feet 6 inches of vertical clearance." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 23, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Montessori Center Of Our Lady, located at 36800 Schoo/craft. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Studl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated March 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 19, 2009, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Are there any questions of Mr. Nowak? Now I'd like the petitioner to come forward and give us her name and address. Suzanne Carlson, French Associates, 1600 Parkdale, Rochester, Michigan 48307. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation? Ms. Carlson: I would like to add that we did bang, at the request of the Planning Commission, some materials, and if I could show those. Mr. Morrow: We were hoping you would say that. Mr. Taormina: While there's a lull in the action, I'll just point out that Ms. Carlson is the architect on the Court House. Mr. Morrow: Do you think we should set that up for our TV audience? Mr. Taormina: We can do that. Ms. Carlson: The intent of the brick is to match the brick that is on the exisfing provincial house. The roofing shingles are ashphalt and the coloration range that you see on the board there, the grayish greenish, certainly not the red or the white. Limestone will be a Apel 28, 2009 25231 buff color. There will be a limestone base along the bottom of the building and the columns as described by Mr. Taormina. Ms. Smiley: It's not on TV yet, is it? Mr. Morrow: I don't know if they've zoned in on it yet or not. There we are. Now our vast audience can see the nice brick and shingles. Ms. Carlson: Some additional details that we've been working through with the Sisters are additional brick details at the corners of the peaked elements and some limestone accents to further keep in context with the Mother House. Mr. Morrow: Do you have a prior slide on that that shows the dimensional where they have the copula on there? Ms. Carlson: I didn't see that on the earlier presentation, but we have submitted that with a copula on it. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, we have a copy of it. Mr. Morrow: There it is. I thought I saw it go by. That's the actual new archdectural outside as opposed to the three dimensional that we saw or two dimensional. There we are. Do you have any of the windows, Mark, with some of the treatment around them? Mr. Taormina: Around the windows? Mr. Morrow: Yes. Ms. Carlson: How about the front elevation that shows the window treatment? Mr. Morrow: We have some with ovals. There we are. That's what I was looking for. Ms. Carlson: Down in the lower right corner. Mr. Taormina: Right about here? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Am I getting it? You want the arch windows? Mr. Morrow: There we are. That's it. Ms. Carlson: That window element is an existing element on the north side of the Mother House, as well as on the west side that this building will be fronting. April 28, 2009 25232 Mr. Morrow: And I don't know if you have a specific lighting plan but our mofion will cover it. Ms. Carlson: We do have lighting direction. I have a hand out. I dont know if that's appropriate at this fime to pass those out, but its a lantern -style somewhat historic looking pole mounted fixture no more than 20 feel in keeping with the City ordinance. We haven't done the lighting calculation yet, but I don't think there would be probably more than four. Mr. Morrow: We'll condition it so it doesn't exceed 20 feet. So that's fine, and I think the only other thing was make sure you touch the bases on how the drainage is handled. Ms. Carlson: Yes, we've been working with the Engineering Department to meet the requirements and still maintain the manicured look of the campus that is important to the Sisters. Mr. Morrow: Okay. That's good. Anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Smiley: For those that weren't at the March 10 meeting, including myself, this is for pre-school and kindergarteners? Ms. Carlson: It's for pre-school and kindergarteners under five years old. Ms. Smiley: And how many students were you thinking of? Ms. Carlson: I think the license will be for under 122 students. Ms. Smiley: Okay. And then there's an outdoor play area? Ms. Carlson: There is an enclosed outdoor play area. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Scheel: Mark, can you put up the plan that shows the parking lot that you had shown earlier? Mr. Taormina: This one shows it better. Ms. Scheel: Okay. So when we have employees parking in the parking lot, are they going to have to walk through the entranceway in order to cross the street or is there going to be a walkway for them to go through that area? Ms. Carlson: They currently park where there is shown to be parking on the plan, and they do walk across the lot. Apel 28, 2009 25233 Ms. Scheel: That's how they do it currently? Okay. Ms. Carlson: We have provided two handicap spaces dose up to the building, which I think is an improvement over the condition now. is not really a handicap spot, but those two are handicap accessible. Ms. Scheel: When the employees walk across, do they walk across that island area there then, or do they go out to the driveway that they drive in on? Ms. Carlson: They would have to cross the driveway that they drive in on. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Ms. Carlson: The sidewalk connects to the road. The sidewalk is not the full loop. The sidewalk goes from where Mark is pointing to now to the far west end of the building. Ms. Scheel: Okay. But the sidewalk does start at the road there and then goes across? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And that boxed in area, Mark, like right above where you are right now. What is that? Ms. Carlson: Those are the handicap spots. Ms. Scheel: Those are the handicap spots that are right there. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I have a number of questions for you, Ms. Carlson, if you don't mind. The brick that you show a sample of, that's going to be a full face four inch brick, not a panel system. Ms. Carlson: Absolutely a full brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Great. And it's nice to see that you decided on the shingles. That looks like an attractive shingle so I think that's good. I had a question about what roofing system you had decided on. The lighting for the properly, you're going to have the decorative lanterns that you spoke of, which is going to be a pole mounted light. Then you're going to have wall packs on the building? Ms. Carlson: As they are required for emergency egress, yes. Apel 28, 2009 25234 Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And the playground area, which sort of material is going to be on the floor of that area. Is it just going to grass or is it going to have the rubberized .... Ms. Carlson: We'll have the required depth of shredded bark mulch that is required for the State licensing for child care facilities at the play equipment area. The rest, which is identified by the rectangle area, will be a lawn area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And you're going to have play structures out there in which the kids can play on? Ms. Carlson: Currently, there is a play structure or play yard that is not enclosed by a fence just about where the building is planned to be located. Our intent is to remove that and reinstall it a little bit more to the east to be out oflhe building pad. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And are you going to have any signage changes at Newburgh Road as a result of upgrading your building? Ms. Carlson: It is not our intent to make any changes to the signage on Newburgh. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I didn't see it on the plan, but are you going to have a flagpole althe front of the building? Ms. Carlson: We have no plans for a flagpole either. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I know you talked about having some elements of a traditional school, if you will, to make this look as normal as you can as far as a little brick school building concept, and I thought maybe a flagpole would be a nice part ofthat if possible. Ms. Carson: We would have to consult with the owners and see if that's something they would like to do. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. Ms. Carlson: I'm not sure how that fits in with the campus of the Felician Sisters. Mr. Wilshaw: Understood. Okay. That covers all my questions. I appreciate the enhancements you made with the copula and some of the building materials. It's a very attractive building, and I think the arches around the building are very nice. Ms. Carlson: We worked hard with the Sisters to incorporate their aesthetic to the building. Apel 28, 2009 25235 Mr. Wilshaw: Its very nice. Thank you. Ms. McDermott: I just wanted to clarify for the viewing audience that currently there is a Monlesson School on site. Correct? Ms. Carlson: Yes. It's currently housed in the first floor of the Mother House which is to the east of our proposed site. Ms. McDermott Okay. And would this be an increase then, a growth in the school, or do lheyjusl need more space in the Mother House? Ms. Carlson: Correct me if I'm wrong. Unidentified Audience Member: An increase in the waiting list. Ms. McDermott An increase with the waiting list? Ms. Carlson: Yes. I think their current enrollment is 90. Is that right, Sister? Unidentified Audience Member: 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Ms. McDernot: Okay. So I heard, just to repeal that for the viewing audience, then that currently we have 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon, and we want to increase to 125 for both morning and afternoon. Ms. Carlson: Yes. 125 at a time. Ms. McDermott At a time. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? Just give us a moment to see if there's anyone in the audience. I dont see anyone coming forward. So if there's no further questions, I'll ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: As an alumni of the Montessori School myself, I would love to say that they've done a fabulous job of leaching their students. Mr. Morrow: We'll make that determination. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. But I will offer an approving recommendation for this facility. April 28, 2009 25236 On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0431-2009 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet A1.01 dated February 12, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet Ll dated February 10, 2009, as revised, prepared by Nowak & Fraus Engineers, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; 4. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 5. That the Exterior Building Elevation Plan marked Sheet A4.01 dated April 7, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6. That the brick used in the construction shall be full face four (4") inch brick; 7. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a compatible character, material and color to other exterior materials on the building; 8. That the Petitioner shall secure the necessary permits, including storm water management permits, wetlands permits and soil erosion and sedimentation control permits, from Wayne County, the City of Livonia, and/or the Stale of Michigan Department of Environmental Quality; Apnl 28, 2009 25237 9. That all light fixtures shall not exceed twenty (20') feel in height and shall be aimed and shielded so as to minimize stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring into adjacent roadway; 10. That the pefifioner shall correct to the Fire Department's satisfaction the stipulations contained in the correspondence dated February26, 2009; 11. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for; and, 12. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval by City Council, and unless a building permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 979TM Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 979"' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on March 24, 2009. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and adopted, it was #04-32-2009 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 979" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Scheel, Taylor, McDermott, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Smiley Apnl 28, 2009 25238 Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on April 28, 2009, was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. ATTEST: R. Lee Morrow, Chairman CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Carol A. Smiley, Secretary MINUTES OF THE 980TH PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, April 28, 2009, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members present: Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow Lynda Scheel Ashley Vartoogian Carol A. Smiley Joe Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; and Ms. Marge Watson, Program Supervisor; were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these pefifions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2009-03-02-05 CAFE O LAIT Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2009-03- 02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lait requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebelt Road, located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between St. Martins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 114 of Section 1. April 28, 2009 25192 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning ofthe surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above-referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. As regards to the address, a prior correspondence to you dated July 1, 2008, from Mr. Robert Schron, City Engineer, incorrectly stated that the address for the site is 19618 Middlebelt Road. The business utilizes the address of 18622 Middlebelt Road. It is contained in a multi-tenant commercial building." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant (seasonal seating) on property located at the above-referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Earl Fester, Senior Fire Inspector. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plan in connection with Cafe O Lait, located at 19618 Mfddlebelt. We recommend that parking blocks be placed in the parking lot around the perimeter of the outdoor seating area as an additional safety measure for the patrons." The letter is signed by David W. Studt, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 20, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 27, 2009, the above- referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. This site as depicted and proposed is deficient eight parking spaces if the fourth tenant space were to be used as retail or mercantile. If the fourth tenant space were to remain vacant and unoccupied permanently, then the parking provided, 48 spaces, is in compliance with the parking required, 48 spaces. The alternative and recommendation is to apply now to the Zoning Board of Appeals for the eight parking space deficiency so that the fourth tenant space may be utilized for retail or like use in the future. The four parking spaces requested by the restaurant could make the fourth tenant space unusable. This Department has no objections to this Petition" The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Apel 28, 2009 25193 Mr. Morrow: Mr. Nowak, did that say they recommended that they apply immediately for the variance? Mr. Nowak: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions for the staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner here? If you will speak to your petition and add what you like. Mr. Safaoui: I'm sorry? Mr. Morrow: Speak to your petition and add the comments or whatever you can to present to us. Ayman Safaoui, Cafe O Lait, 19622 Middlebelt, Livonia, Michigan 48252. I have no comments. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. So I'll ask the Commission. Ms. Srriley: Were you aware of the request by the Police Department to put parking blocks around? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. It's already on order. It should be here any day. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? One comment I would like to make or gel some input. Routinely, do the people that work at your store routinely park in the rear? Mr. Safaoui: Yes, and I own the carpet store next door. I have a lot of space available, so my employees, they've been parking at the carpet area. Mr. Morrow: Okay, because ... Mr. Safaoui: That's about four or five spaces. Mr. Morrow: You have a little more flexibility than we see on the plan. Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just wanted to double check that you don't plan on using any outdoor speakers. Is that correct? Mr. Safaoui: No speakers and no lights. Apel 28, 2009 25194 Ms. Scheel: Okay. Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing none, I will ... Ms. Smiley: Are you going to gel the parking waiver use? You said you own the place next door, right? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Ms. Smiley: But they suggested in here that you gel a parking waiver so that you don't become deficient in parking or so that the fourth unit in there is able to have some parking should it become occupied. Mr. Safaoui: I'm not sure what the landlords want to do, but the landlords also park at the Value Carpel. So that's another two parking spaces, him and his employee. We're saving about eight, exactly, plus ... Mr. Morrow: So you are not the landlord? Mr. Safaoui: No. I'm the owner of Cafe O Lad. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Mr. Taormina, are you ... Mr. Taormina: We have discussed this matter with the owner of the center. He is aware of it. He is actively pursuing filling that fourth space. He thinks he has a tenant lined up and he is aware that he either has to have some kind of a reciprocal parking arrangement with the adjoining properly owner or seek a variance. Mr. Morrow: Okay. So he'll have the option of going forward or waiting until things materialize a little bit more. Mr. Taormina: Correct. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: The only problem we have ... and you're talking about north, sir? The building north of where you're located? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Taylor: There's a big berm in there where you can't gel through there. When I drove over by there, it's all planting materials. You'd have to put some sort of a walkway through there. April 28, 2009 25195 Mr. Safaoui: They can walk in front from the carpel and the walkway, from the carpel through the Cafe. It's open. Its about three feet away from my window. Mr. Taylor: I thought I saw shrubbery and a berm along the sde on your north property line. Mr. Safaoui: It's open. It's about 34 feel. Mr. Taylor: Next to the building? Mr. Safaoui: Next to the building, yes. Mr. Taylor: I guess I missed that. Sorry. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, nobody came forward from the audience. I'll close the public hearing and ask for a motion. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #04-28-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lail requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebell Road, located on the east side of Middlebell Road between Sl. Marlins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 1, which properly is zoned C-2 and OS, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02-05 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the outdoor seating shall be confined to the existing concrete patio in front of the subject restaurant unit as illustrated on the Outdoor Seating Plan/Site Plan submitted by Cafe O Lait, received by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009; 2. That the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 12 seats; 3. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor sealing area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 4. That fencing of a type approved by the Inspection Department shall be maintained along the borders of the patio that adjoin parking areas; April 28, 2009 25196 5. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 6. That the owner of the shopping center shall apply to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance for deficient parking, as recommended in the correspondence dated April 20, 2009, from the Inspection Department, for the reason that the site as depicted and proposed would be deficient eight parking spaces if tie fourth tenant space were to be used for retail or like use; 7. That parking blocks shall be placed along the south and west sides of the patio area as an additional safety measure for the patrons as recommended in the correspondence dated April 3, 2009, from the Traffic Bureau; 8. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #397- 08, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2008-06- 02-17, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and 9. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of application for a Zoning Compliance Permit for the outdoor dining. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? April 28, 2009 25197 Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Normally, these outdoor dining requests are pretty easy to deal with because it's a pretty benign use, but this one concerned me a little bit because of the tight conditions that you have there as far as parking goes. You have a lot of parking in the back, which is not overly useable for your patrons, but it makes the parking in the front rather difficult. And this concerned me for that reason, but as I think about it, if you're restaurant does well and fills up all the parking spaces because all your seats are filled, it's only going to hurl your other business that's there and the hair cul salon. Its only hurling yourself if you have deficient parking. You seem to have an alternative parking arrangement next door that you've been able to move some of your cars to and if that's working for you and makes both your restaurant and your party store and the hair cut salon viable, then I'm fine with that. Mr. Safaoui: Yes, we're okay with that. Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#2 PETITION 2009-03-02-06 ONE UNDER BAR&GRILL Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing mining of the surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Mark, if this is approved, who would initiate the amendment of the agreement? Mr. Taormina: Our Law Department would do that. Mr. Morrow: So you would see to that should this pass? Mr. Taormina: Yes. That was drafted by our Law Department, and we've had a discussion with them already on this. April 28, 2009 25198 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are five items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. A review of our files shows a reciprocal easement agreement was entered into for this property; hence no reference to easements in the legal description. As regards to the address, 35780 Five Mile Road is the correct address for this building. 1 bust this provides the requested information." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from Livonia Fire and Rescue, dated April 9, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility on the property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 13, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with One Under Bar 8 Grill located at 35780 Five Mile Road. We have no objections orrec mmendabons to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Sludl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 23, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 3, 2009, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. The petitioner has proposed to add an outdoor seating area that will add an additional 40 outdoor seats to the existing restaurant. There is currently a cross parking agreement that allows for 156 spaces to be used by the current restaurant and its employees. The proposed outdoor seating area will require 14 additional parking spaces plus any additional employees that may be needed. This parking agreement would need to be adjusted to reflect the additional parking spaces required for the proposed outdoor seating. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. There is an additional letter from the Division of Police, dated April 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "This correspondence is regarding the request by One Under Bar 8 Grill for a patio service area. 1 have reviewed the plans that you emailed me and concur with your thoughts. An MLCC requirement is that a barrier encloses the area. This can be a fence or wall. Other than that, per the Michigan Liquor Control, the City can place whatever April 28, 2009 25199 restrictions they feel are appropriate. It is my recommendation that there only be an 'exit only' gate on the fence. There should be a means of ingress and egress for the patio area into the restaumntlbar. The drawings show a gate near the north door that empties out into the parking lot. By limiting access to the patio area only from the interior of the business, 1 think this would make it much easier to control patrons trying to walk out of the area with alcohol. 1 would also impose some noise restrictions for nighttime hours such as no loud music as there are homes immediately to the west of the business." The letter is signed by Donald E. Borieo, Sergeant. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Nowak? Seeing none, is the petitioner here this evening? Please come forward and give us your name and address. Brian Tominna, 35780 Five Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Good evening. Mr. Morrow: Do you have any remarks pertinent to your petition? Mr. Tominna: That gale that faces the north side is an exit only gale. You'd have to enter through the restaurant to gel into the patio. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Tominna, do you have a reason to have or need to have two ..exit only" gales out of that location as opposed tojust one? Mr. Tominna: Yeah. There's the one on the bottom. The other one is on lop. It's to enter back into the restaurant just in case if there's a, I don't know, a fire or something that people need two exits to leave from. From my awareness, that's what Liquor Control wanted to see also. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So your thought is that if there's a fire in the restaurant, they would exitthat door and then immediately go out the gale? Mr. Tominna: No, no. I'm just talking about patio purposes only. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. You already have an exit. On this plan, it shows the cornerlhere. Mark's highlighting it. Is that adequate? Mr. Tominna: I thought someone said that was an enter/exit, but it's only an exit only. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Tominna: I don't know ifsomeone said that. April 28, 2009 25200 Mr. Taormina: Actually, if I could clarify that? The plan is labeled "exit only" for the east gate, and ifs labeled "new exit and entrance gate' for the north gate. What the Police Department is recommending is that it be the same for both - exit only. So that would be self - latching and it would swing out and only be used for exit purposes for people leaving the patio. Mr. Morrow: If I'm reading this ... Mr. Taormina: I got that wrong. I'm sorry. You're right. Mr. Morrow: He doesn't want that going intothe parking lot. Mr. Taormina: That's correct. Mr. Morrow: So we're saying, the new gate connected with the patio, there would be no gate there. Mr. Tominna: Thais no problem. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Just so we understand. And the other recommendation was, I dont know if you saw this plan but the door that is right behind that, where the gate used to be that goes to the parking lot, based on the plan, he wants it swinging. Its swinging this way. He wants it to swing the opposite way so that it swings away from the patio. Mr. Tominna: Okay. That's no problem. Mr. Morrow: Rather than swinging into the patio, it swings toward the west. Do you follow? Mr. Tominna: Yes, sir. Mr. Morrow: Okay. I think chats just so you don't hit somebody coming up. Mr. Tominna: We wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we? Ms. Scheel: I just wanted you to repeat what you just said regarding the gate. You're saying that the top gate that is on our plan says ..new entrance and exit", that gate is going away totally? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Morrow: The one that's going into the north parking lot, towards the north parking, that's being deleted. Ms. Scheel: That's being deleted totally? There will be no gate there? April 28, 2009 25201 Mr. Morrow: Only the one on the east side will be egress only. So to gel to the patio, you have to come through the entrance. Ms. Scheel: Right. You come through the building. You actually go into the building to go out to the patio, but to exit out of the patio, you either have to go back into the restaurant or you go out the only exit gale. There would be just one exit gale off the patio. Mr. Morrow: That's correct. That's what we're driving at. Ms. Scheel: I just want to make sure I'm understanding that. Mr. Tominna: Real quick. I thought with Liquor Control, they wanted two gates. They're actually sending me some sort of verbiage on this stuff loo, but the only reason we included the two gales was because of Liquor Control. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chair, if I can address that? If that is the case, if for any reason a second access point is required, what we should do is label it for emergency egress only as opposed to allowing patrons to move freely through that area. That would be our recommendation. Mr. Morrow: So if it is in conflict with the Slate law, we will have to have it say ..emergency only,' but the officer indicates that we are abiding by the Liquor Control ordinance. Mr. Taormina: He's right. I did have the discussion with the Enforcement Division at the MLCC, who indicated to me that it's really the local municipality that decides how they want those openings provided. So if our safety codes require an additional exit, then we should label it "emergency egress only." Mr. Taylor: In speaking to the owner earlier, he was trying to gel golfers to come and sit in that area because he's not doing that great of a lunch business now that golfing is happening. If you shut the normal door that there's now on the north side, that's where golfers used to enter the restaurant. So now you're going to force them to go all the way around to the front. I don't know how convenient that's going to be for them to gel in that way because the whole design of the building was to bring golfers in on the north side of that door to come in and have a hamburger or whatever they want to have. I don't know how well that's going to work. Its going to be inconvenient. Let's put it that way. Also, when I talked to the owner, he said that they have no desire to have any speakers outside. I see in our resolution we speak to speakers, and I don't think that's a good idea. April 28, 2009 25202 "Item 6. That sound levels of any outdoor speakers shall be kept to a reasonable minimum." But I think the idea of putting the Item 5 that we had on the last agenda, 'that this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of any outdoor speakers" would be a good idea on this proposal. I don't have any problem with what he wants to do here. I think it's a good idea to try and generate business from the golf course, and that's what he's actually trying to do, a luncheon business. He does a very good business at night, but he needs luncheon business and that's what he's working for according to what he told me anyway. Mr. Tominna: I have no problem with not putting any speakers out there. I'm completely fine with that. Mr. Taylor: Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I agree with Mr. Taylor's idea that you gel a lot of business from that north door when you have golfers come in through that entranceway. Is it possible, you could tell me this based on your knowledge of the restaurant, to possibly leave that north door unobstructed with the patio, terminate the patio prior to that door, and then add an extra egress door so that you can service that patio with a new door. Is that a possibility? That way you would have the access to that north parking lot as well. Mr veghiazanan: If I may speak, I helped Brian put the design together for this. We did have a layout that did show that originally, and we thought that the requirement was that you had to enter the patio area through the bar. So if that's not a requirement, then we can certainly cut the gate across and attach it to the edge of the building and leave that door open. So, I guess, that's kind of where we're standing right now, is what is the requirement? Mr. Morrow: From the communications we had from the Police Department, I think they were trying to preclude people walking out of there with a drink into the parking lot. Of course, you know, the thing is, you could do the same from the east side, but I think we'll leave it up to the Commission to see what their desire is as far as how we send this forward. Mr veghiazanan: The original design did show that right across from the edge of the building to where that first brick pier is. We had a gate there, and that could be an "exit only' gate and that would be the only exit we would need. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Chair, Mr. Taormina, we have a number of outdoor dining patios at various restaurants that I'm sure have alcohol served Apel 28, 2009 25203 on them. Do they all exit from the bar area? Is that a requirement that you know of? Mr. Taormina: Yes, I think the majority of them, the ones that I can think of, clearly do, and they do not allow for customers to go in or out of any of the gates along the perimeter. Those are used for emergency exits. The one I'm thinking about is Claddagh. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. I'm not thinking about the gates so much as access from Mr. Taormina: Access from the interior of the bar, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, but cold One Under Bar & Grill, could the whole facility be considered a bar, or do we mean the bar area proper as far as where the drinks are served? Mr. Taormina: That I dont know. They would have to station somebody at the gale. There would have to be somebody there to control access at that point. Mr. Wilshaw: Bar Louie has an outdoor patio area. If someone was to take a drink out to the patio at Bar Louie, the doorway doesn't directly conned to the bar area. It goes through the dining area. Mr. Taormina: Oh. I see what you're saying. You're not talking about them interchangeably. Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, I'm not talking about the gates. Mr. Taormina: I think that a door anywhere from the interior, whether its considered the bar or part of the dining area, would satisfy that requirement. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That's what I was talking about. Mr. Taormina: As long as it mel the clearance, the aisle widths, from the inside. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So it could be an option that you could go back to your earlier design that you thought of, which is to put the fencing straight across allowing that northern door to be accessible as an entrance and exit to your restaurant and then add a new door to your patio area. That might solve both our gate issue and give you a little bit better access to your restaurant, if you're willing to consider that. Mr Veghiazanan: I'm not quite sure. Are you trying to say that you would like another door put in to where you can gel in and out of there April 28, 2009 25204 right through the restaurant, instead of actually physically like walking outside into the patio? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr Yeghiazanan: So let me clarify. You're proposing that we would have to bust through the existing building brick and install a door there? Mr. Wilshaw: I'm asking you is it possible to put a door there? You know your restaurant better than I do. Mr. Tominna: There's two windows right there where the two skinnier parts are on the lop of the diagram. So it would be pretty hard to put a door there because we'd have to saw cul through the wall and R's all brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So you're pretty much committed to this design. Mr. Tominna: It will cost a little more money to saw cul and then add an aluminum frame door. I'm guessing that it would probably cost an extra $5,000. Mr. Wilshaw: Well, okay. Then you do this with the realization that it's going to be difficult for patrons on the north side of the parking lot to access your restaurant, basically because they'll have to go all the way around your patio to get to the east entrance. Ms. Scheel: Can I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Are you contemplating? Mr. Tominna: I'm thinking right now. Ms. Scheel: While he's thinking, why is it that we dont want them entering in that spot? Why is it that there's a hesitation? Mr. Tominna: Well, real quick, the only thing I thought about with having people just entering on the patio by themselves is the fact that if they do that, usually how it works is when people come in, a hostess will greet them and then they'd seat them to their table to where they could allow the server to know that someone's here in their section. If people just come in and sit there, it's kind of like hit or miss. If someone doesn't see them, then I get yelled at and have to buy you guys dinner. Ms. Vartoogian: I have a suggestion. Could you put a piece of fence from where the existing building is across to the end where the fence ... so it would be straight across keeping that same entrance/exit as it Apel 28, 2009 25205 is, opening and closing, but then put an additional "exit only" gate on that one part? Mr. Tominna: Are you talking about that top portion up there? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. So just put a piece of fencing that would make it flush? Mr. Tominna: That's very easy to do. Ms. Vartoogian: That seems like it would solve all the issues. Mr. Tominna: That's pretty easy to do. So our people are either entering or exiting through a gate and then a door? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. Mr. Tominna: That's a lot easier to do than to saw cut through the wall. Mr. Morrow: Does everybody understand that? Ms. McDermott Could we go over that maybe with the highlighter on the map, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Well, if I understand Miss Vartoogian, her suggestion is to extend the fence across here and allow for a gate to enter the patio here? Ms. Vartoogian: An emergency exit only. Mr. Taormina: Yes, but then the question becomes, how do they enter into the patio area. He would either have to add a door here .... Mr. Tominna: That would have to be an exit/enter. Mr. Taormina: It would have to be an exit/enter. So he'd have to have somebody stationed there all the time. I think he has a concern regarding his operations if he doesn't have some control of the people coming in and out, which is what the current plan provides for. Its only drawback, as was pointed out by Mr. Taylor and Mr. Wilshaw, is that it forces golfers to walk 80 extra feet or whatever the distance around the patio would be. Mr. Taylor: Obviously, the Police Department has a concern about what's happening. So I think you're better off just doing it the way they asked you to do it and see if it works out all right. If it doesn't work out that way and you have some problems, quite possibly you could come back. But I think in the long run, you're better off complying with what they would like to have you do. Apel 28, 2009 25206 Mr. Tominna: And what way is that? I'm pretty lost right now. Mr. Taylor: I'm kind of lost too. Mr. Wilshaw: I think we're at one gate exit only. Mr. Tominna: That's no problem. Mr. Taormina: But again, there may be a requirement for a second egress only as well. Mr. Taylor: Right. And if it is, you're going to have acquiesce to that, to the Liquor Control Commission. Mr Yeghiazanan: One of the other reasons for the double gate at the lop was to be able to load band equipment inside the building through that side door. So that was one of the other reasons for having a gale there, so you could bring materials in for construction or for whatever. Mr. Morrow: Well, like you say, if the State law requires it, its academic what we've been talking about and we go back to the original plan. Also, the logic is that we don't want alcohol going towards the golf course. However, we do have the ability to bring the golf course to the east. So I'm going to leave it up to the Commission to see if we go along with what the officer recommended orwe stick with the original plan. Mr. Wilshaw: I'm going to ask a question that has nothing to do with gates or fences. The lighting that you're going to have for this patio area, are you going to use existing pole lights that are in what will be the landscaped area to illuminate the patio? Mr. Tominna: Yes. I was out there last night leaf blowing some cigarette butts out and it was really, really lit up with the existing lighting. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The landscaping that you show on your landscape plan appears quite substantial. You're going to have no problem irrigating that with sprinklers and keeping it trimmed and looking good? Mr. Tominna: Yes. That's why we have some of the .... Mr Yeghiazanan: We also included some electrical duplex receptacles to be installed in the brick piers to be able to bring hedge trimmers and other landscaping equipment out there to be able to maintain that. Then as far as irrigation is concerned, if there's a Apel 28, 2009 25207 need in the future, I think there's an opportunity to install a sprinkler system not only on this side but there's another plot of grass area on the opposite side of the walkway that could also be sprinkled to maintain that area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The height of the landscaping is going to be less than the height of the fence. Its going to be ornamental, small landscaping. Mr Yeghiazanan: Yes. If you look at the landscape plan and look at the material, R's mostly hostas and boxwoods and perennials. Mr. Wilshaw: I saw some burning bushes, which you can trim nicely. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Smiley: Do we have your name and address for the records? Mr Yeghiazanan: I am just helping Nt. Tominna out with the engineering. My name is Mark Yeghiazarian, 22156 Chase Drive, Novi, Michigan 48375. Ms. Smiley: Thank you. That made Marge very happy. Ms. Scheel: Commissioner Taylor had mentioned that he would like to have it so there's no outdoor speakers. Are you okay with that? Mr. Tominna: Unless he wants to come out and sing, but yes, I'm completely fine with that. Ms. Scheel: Okay. That's it. Ms. Smiley: Is there going to be music out there? Is this primarily for lunch? Mr. Tominna: Yes. There's going to be no music out there whatsoever. Ms. Smiley: Okay. In the evening hours, considering you're in Michigan, how late do you think you'll have the patio open? Mr. Tominna: Probably like to 10:00 p.m., I'm guessing. Not loo late if people are out there casually eating or something, but definitely not to 2:00 a.m. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, I'll go to the audience and ask if there's anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against the granting of this petition? If you'll come forward and give us your name and address please. Apnl 28, 2009 25208 Catherine Hloros, 15153 Country Club Drive, Livonia. Good evening. I live in close proximity to this establishment in question. I want to make it clear that I don't have any objections to bars or meeting places, but other establishments of this type are always in commercial areas. They're not in residential areas. You can look on Haggerty Road, Five Mile and Farmington. They're all surrounded by parking lots and buildings that are not open at that time of the night or so forth. The band that they have playing on Friday and Saturday nights is so loud that my windows vibrate, and I have newer double paned windows. And that's with the windows shut. So what's it going to be like in the summertime when I want to open up my windows? Ours is a working class neighborhood, yet no consideration has been given to this fact by the establishment, the City or the Livonia Police Department. The language that comes out of that parking lot is atrocious, and it would bum the ears off a sailor. And the word of choice is always the 'T' word and it's not just males that are doing all the cursing. Sometimes they'll go out in the parking lot and scream just to scream. One night they had a contest as to who could scream the loudest. Vehicles scream out of that parking lot at a high rale of speed with fires screeching. The radios are blaring. Their cd's are blaring. And I dont sleep well at night so I'm up a lot. I am able to witness the activities outside the building and in that parking lot. I have yet to see a Livonia Police car go down Five Mile between Levan and Farmington. So I find it very humorous that they have no objections to this plan because I don't know how they'd know what it's like. This forum would have been totally unnecessary in my opinion if the establishment had been operated properly and with the neighboring residents in mind. There is no reason that any band has to play that bud. I don't feel any of us that are here would have any complaints about music if it was held to a reasonable level. As far as the parking lot antics, all that would have been necessary is if they had employed security for the parking lot. And if they do have security, they better hire another firm. Holding to that rule that you're either inside or gone would have prevented the current and ongoing situation. If the situation as it stands now is intolerable, outdoor seating would be just more of the same. I guess I'm a little disappointed. This is the first meeting that I've ever attended. It seems to me like you've made your decision before we even came in. So just listening to the plans and how you're going to adjust the seating and how you're going to do the outside, pretty much says to me that you're going to do it either way. But l really feel that it was necessary for me to voice my opinion, and I invite everyone of you to come sit in our driveway on a Friday or Saturday night and listen for yourself. April 28, 2009 25209 And this goes on unfil after 2:00 a.m. because they remain in the parking lot. The parking lot is not cleared. They leave the building but they do not clear that parking lot. They sit there and they party and they scream and they yell and they swear. So if any of you doubt what I have to say, I truly invite you to come sit in my driveway and listen for yourselves what it's like to live there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, ma'am, I just have a comment. As I said earlier, we are a recommending body. Part of our job is to take a petition, adjust it or do with it as we think would be the best option should it be approved. The Council will have the final say. We try to touch a lot of bases so that they dont have to. As far as the noise is concerned, there is a ... I don't know what the name of the ordinance is. Mark, there's a sound ordinance that is regulated by decibels. Ms. Hloros: Well, its not endorsed. It's not being enforced, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Well, probably no one has taken a reading yet. We'll have the petitioners give us some input as far as the comments that you made. So we dont know how this is going to come out, but part of our job is to clean it up and the Council will ultimately decide. We'll give them the best plan we possibly can. That's why we're going back and forth trying to clean it up. We may or may not approve it, but either way, it will go to the Council. If we deny it, they have 10 days in which to appeal that decision. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions of this lady? Ms. McDermott: I don't have any questions, but I might suggest we do have quiet hours in Livonia. I believe it's after 11:00 p.m. So, have you tried to call the police? Ms. Hloros: Oh, yes, and some of the answers were, well, what exactly are they doing? How many are there? And, maybe you should move. Ms. McDermott: Okay. Then what I would suggest, as Chairman Morrow has said, is that we encourage some type of a test on the decibel level, you know, maybe in a random time frame, a few different times. I know that on my street when we've had some rather loud parties, and I'm not against parties and fun, but when they're still going on at 2:00 a.m. I have called and I do expect the same rights to be given to everyone. Quiet hours, like I said, I believe its 11:00 p.m. unless I'm incorrect. You can Mr. Morrow: April 28, 2009 Mr. Taormina: 25210 Mr. Morrow: correct me. But after that, the noise level should be dropped Ms. Marietti: and it should not be heard across the parking lot into a Mr. Taormina: neighborhood. That's just my opinion, and I think that we do have the ability to try and help with that. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: This is a waiver of use. It is not a permitted use. However, we can give them waiver to do it. Part of the reason for the waiver is because it allows us to lake into consideration how it impacts the intensity of that business because it's not a permitted use. So your remarks are very germane to this Commission, and we'll give the petitioner an opportunity to get some feedback as it relates to your problems because he does have to keep control of his business. His business is to be conducted inside, and if there are problems in the parking lot, we certainly don't want you to move. Okay? Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else? Then I'll ask the petitioner to come up and respond. Oh, there's more people. I'm sorry. Diane Marietti, 15044 Fairway. Its whoever. It's residents, correct? Ms. Smiley: Yes. Ms. Marietti: Could you tell me how many homes were given notification of this meeting? I never got one. I heard about it. I live due south of the establishment. Mr. Morrow: Mark? Mr. Taormina: It would be everyone within 300 feel of the property. We have a list of those homes. I don't know if I have them with me or not. That information may be in our file upstairs in the Department. Mr. Morrow: Its 300 feel, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Yes, its all the properties within 300 feet. Mr. Morrow: Are you further than 300 feet away? Ms. Marietti: I have a bird's eye view of the east entrance from my house. Mr. Taormina: What's your address? Ms. Marietti: 15044. Apel 28, 2009 25211 Mr. Taormina: Whalstreel? Ms. Marietti: Fairway. I concur with what this lady said. Al 11:00 p.m., 12:00 a.m., once traffic drops down on Five Mile, we hear the conversations in the parking lot. I have called the police but unfortunately what usually happens is by the time the police get, there ft's quiet or people go back inside. If it were just for the lunch hour, I wouldn't have a problem. Mr. Taormina: Are you on the south side of Fairway? Ms. Marietti: Yes, well, on the south side, Fairway runs east. Mr. Taormina: Your property is more than 300 feet away. Ms. Marietti: The house across the street from me? Mr. Taormina: The houses on the north side of Fairway would have received notice. Ms. Marietti: I live across the street. Mr. Taormina: The houses across the street would not have received notice. Ms. Marietti: Okay. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Marietti: But it's very loud and I can tell you what the conversations are, even the day that accident happened less than year ago from there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you. Edward Risk, 15125 Country Club. Good evening. They're my neighbors. I've got five post -it notes here; I could have 100. First of all, just three days, at 1:22 a.m., all kinds of noise out there. Racket, racket. What they do is, they keep their front doors open to the establishment, so that lets out all the noise. They had the loud band like they said Friday and Saturday, and they also have it on other days loo, not just Friday and Saturday, but Friday and Saturday are the worst. But they have the doors open. I mean they have to buy better smoke equipment or something. So that's the problem. You can hear the noise coming right from the band, loud, screaming. Then also when they have a banquet going on upstairs, and this is all after 11:00 p.m. quiet time. That's a joke. There's no quiet time. They didn't even Apnl 28, 2009 25212 mention the motorcycles, in and out, racing up and down the street, the cars. On 4/17 a12:08 a.m., a bus, similar to a Livonia senior bus, was parked there and everybody going in from the bar at eight minutes after 2:00 in the morning making all kinds of noise, yelling and screaming. They never seem to want to stop d. I just would like, and I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly, Mr. Tominna, and he lives in West Bloomfield. I'm sure at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, I would just like it as quiet as his neighborhood is. It's ridiculous. I did call, and many times I called. Its Officer Hanes. 3!7/09 at 1:10 in the morning. He did say the same thing, more or less. Well, you want to have a compliant. I said, why don't you just go there and listen? So I dont even know if they go. I also mentioned to him, I said, is it because the City owns part of that and you're giving them a free nide? Its not right what theyre doing, and when they have a banquet up there like I say, and that's not as constant as the restaurant obviously, but when they do, they open up the doors up on the balcony and it's unbelievable the noise. Its not 11:00 p.m. Its 1:00, 2:00, 2:30 in the morning. And the things that go on in the parking lot are absolutely true, among other things I've heard. You could guess. Its just not right. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: Well, we certainly appreciate your input Mr. Risk: And if you guys do approve it, I'm going to tell you right now so its on the record, I'm going to call the Police. And I'm going to tell them, yeah, I did make the complaint. This is it here. I'm going to call them every day, every night until this stops because I don't think this should go on. They have the doors open to the establishment all night and the noise is unbelievable coming out of there. Three days ago, we heard the band louder than . I could hear the cymbals. I could hear the whole everything, the drums, the whole thing. I like to sit out there quiet. I just, like I say, we would like @ as quiet as the gentleman's neighborhood in West Bloomfield. How's that? Mr. Morrow: What we have before us is the outdoor patio. A lot of what you said is a condition of what's going on inside. Mr. Risk: It's no control. They should have security. They should be able to go out and tell them, quiet, keep the doors closed. And when they have the banquet upstairs, they have to keep it closed after 11:00 p.m. or so. And if they are going to stay till 10:00 p.m. with the outdoor restaurant make sure that it is exactly 10:00 p.m. and they close it down, because they're not doing anything and the police aren't doing anything. They have their little April 28, 2009 25213 checkpoints on Newburgh and Levan getting people for 5 - 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, but they won't do this. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you, sir. But before you go, Commissioner Scheel? Ms. Scheel: If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question. The evenings that there are not bands playing, do you find the noise level loud then? Mr. Risk: Its still pretty loud. Ms. Scheel: Its still prefly loud. Mr. Risk: Nolas loud. Ms. Scheel: Not as loud as the evenings when the bands are playing? Mr. Risk: Exactly. Friday and Saturday are horrible, but they also sometimes kick it up on weekdays too, but not as bad. Ms. Scheel: Okay, but when you notice it the most is when the bands are there, the live performances? Mr. Risk: Yes, because like I say, they keep the doors open, but it is still continuous. It's still loud even during the week. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Risk: Because I lake my dog out late at night and, you know, there's motorcycles. I mean if the police would just get there like about ten to 2:00 a.m. and just sitthere. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much for your input. I would like the petitioner to share with some of his comments in response to what the neighbors have said. Ms. Vartoogian: There's another resident. Mr. Morrow: What I should have said, if you're going to speak - it's my fault, not yours. Normally, we ask the people to line up there so they're in close proximity. That's my fault, not yours. That's why. Its not that we dont want to hear from you. I just didn't see anyone there. Thank you. Jim Koch, 15041 Fairway. Good evening. We're directly south of the east entrance of the One Under Bar & Grill. I can look out directly at the existing upper and lower levels, where I believe they're going to be putting in this new patio area. The upper deck Apel 28, 2009 25214 extends about 5 to 8 feet out with poles that go directly down to the lower level and that's put in cement. I'm a little confused because I can't quite see the diagram up there. Is this 1,700 square foot parking lot area going to go east and then north because I don't really understand that. Mr. Morrow: Are you familiar with the grass that's out there now where the light poles are? Mr. Koch: Yes, I am. Mr. Morrow: That's where @'s going to go. Its going to replace the grass with landscaping around it. Its not really infringing on anything but the grassy area. Mr. Koch: Okay. If I'm not mistaken, the existing lights that are out there are basically pole lights that you would use for outside parking. I think they're continuing to use those so that there should not be any additional problem with that. And they say there's going to be no outside speakers. It wasn't clear to me if there's going to be at any time an outside band. That has not been addressed. Mr. Morrow: We will add that if you'll feel comfortable with that. Mr. Koch: Also, on the second level where they have the banquet facilities, those doors are generally open at all times of the year. People can go out on the deck and literally hoot and holler up, have a great time. Its not so good for all the people that live around there. There's no restrictions at that point either, and anyone who is going to be in the banquet facilities, there's no banner that will prevent them from going upstairs, through the restaurant downstairs, into the new area unless they lock doors to just sit there and continue hating their party on a lower level as opposed to an upper level, which is, of course, the same sound level, the same volume. What the people who have come up before have said is exactly correct. We live directly across the street and so we get a lot of noise. I guess it's fair to say that we have really good sound insulation in our house and we have really good windows, and we can hear the banquet facility all the time with the bands and the people yelling. That's not uncommon. The other thing that's a problem is generally about the time the bar closes up and the employees get out also, that's when it turns into a sort of a race track. You've got people out there hooting and hollering it up and seeing roughly how fast they can get out onto Five Mile screeching the tires as much as possible. All those things really speak against having another outside patio because there is no volume control, sound April 28, 2009 25215 control now. I saw on the diagram that there's going to be a visual barrier but nothing was discussed at all about some kind of sound barrier, a bene, whatever. The existing facilities, if you were to go into the lower parking lot, you actually go down and in. I'm not an engineer but I would assume that they would have to have some kind of additional drainage for that. A time frame was mentioned between Apnl and October. I didn't really quite understand if that is supposed to be the outside seating area time because the facility is open all year round. They've done a very good job, since we've been in the same house for 24 years, and we've looked out at all the businesses that have come and gone. They have been the only ones that have actually successfully stayed around. Mr. Morrow: The deed restriction applies only to parking. It has nothing to do with operation of the patio. Normally, that's done as the weather permits. Mr. Koch: Okay. There was mention about 14 additional parking spaces having to be created. Is that because of the new patio? It's going to replace 14 parking spaces? Mr. Morrow: It would mean that they would have to adjust the agreement between the property owner and the City where the golf course is. They would have to adjust it so that they can use those parking spaces. Mr. Koch: Okay. I also just wanted to ask, if they're going to do random decimal testing, that they do it on a weekend. Mr. Morrow: That was something we are going to pursue. Obviously, a large measure of your concern goes with our noise ordinance and 9 sounds to me like we're exceeding the allowable decibel. We'll see if we can find out a little bit more information about that. Mr. Koch: I don't know what the allowable decibel is. Mr. Morrow: I certainly don't either, but the ordinance does and its very easily recorded. Mr. Koch: Okay. I don't know if there is a standard that the City uses that says you cannot go above this decibel level at 11:00 at night. Mr. Morrow: You might speak to this a little bit better, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: There are decibel limitations as well as time factors as part of the noise control ordinance and that is enforced through our Inspection Department. April 28, 2009 25216 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Good. Thank you for that input. I was wondering who was responsible for that. It's our Inspection Department. Did we answer it? Mr. Koch: I doral believe so. I sort of got a general answer. Is it Engineering that's responsible for that? Mr. Morrow: No, no. The Inspection Department. We would request Inspection to go out randomly. Is that how it works, Mark? Mr. Taormina: The Police Department as well as the Inspection Departments Ordinance Enforcement Division handle these things. There's a whole chapter within our Code of Ordinances that deals with noise control that I can provide you with. Rather than give you specifics, I can give youlhe citation and you can look at that. Mr. Koch: Okay. I just also would also like to mention that this 1,700 square foot area that they want to make, by comparison, many of the houses in that same area have pretty much the exact same square footage. So even though it doesn't sound like much, it really is a large area. That's something that I think should be thought about and brought into consideration. Mr. Morrow: Did you say 1,700? Mr. Koch: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. Mr. Koch: Thats 10 tables with four chairs each for a maximum of 40 people. Mr. Morrow: I looked at that area today and it didn't look anywhere near the size of a house. Mr. Koch: Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Gus Hloros, 15153 Country Club. Good evening. My biggest deal is after 2:00 in the morning. I dont see why they cant have a security guard or a bouncer or somebody there to make sure these people are out of that parking lot by 2:10, 2:05 a.m. I don't know what time is last call. What time is last call usually? 1:40 a.m. So I think by 2:00 a.m. that parking lot should be cleared. My wife and what everybody said is true. The noise is ridiculous. He's done a great job with the place because I like boulders. I've got a lot Apel 28, 2009 25217 of boulders around my house. He's done a great job with the landscaping and everything, but my biggest deal is after 2:00 a.m. what they do in the parking lot. It's just terrible. Like they said basically the same thing, the swearing, the 'f' word. You hear that constantly between the men and the gals and the flying out of the parking lot with the speeding and everything. I'm not an ogre or nothing because I used to go to bars myself, you know, and I used to party and have a good time loo. So I can understand that, but the point is, now you're in a residential area and it just gels crazy there, you now. So if Mr. Tominna could at least have a bouncer there maybe at 2:00 in the morning and make sure the parking lot is cleared out or a security guard, that would help out tremendously. They do it in other bars. I don't think it would be a big deal, and maybe save some lives because one day someone is going to get killed flying out of there, or there might be a big fight in the parking lot and something could happen to someone in the parking lot. They could gel shot or stabbed or whatever. But it would be a good idea to maybe have a bouncer and go into that parking lot and make sure they clear the parking lot out and get all the people out of there. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: I appreciate it. As long as you're up there, just so we go back to square one, the Commission is looking at an outdoor patio, which we assume is for low profile quiet dining. It sounds like from listening to the residents, that many, if not all of the problems, emanate from inside. So with your coming forward, you're enlightening the properly owners ofyour concerns. Mr. Hloros: Yes, I'm concerned about the elements after 2:00 in the morning. I mean they've been out there until 2:30, 3:00, 3:30 in the morning sometimes, and I mean I'm not going to go out there. What am I going to do? I go out there, I'll end up getting in a fight or if something happens and my wife says, Ah, don't go out there. And I don't like calling the police. We've called them a couple times, but you know, you do what you have to do, but I don't like doing that. I'd like the owner to maybe, Mr. Tominna, to gel a bouncer there. Gel somebody to clear that parking lot. That's my biggest concern. Mr. Morrow: You can always talk to the Commission. We're not hear to .... Mr. Hloros: Do we ever have a chance to talk to those people or do we just talk to you and you just recommend what we said here tonight? Mr. Morrow: They're hearing everything you say. They're going to have an opportunity to respond to what you say. Apel 28, 2009 25218 Mr. Hloros: Oh, okay, I understand. So they're going to hear everything we said tonight. Mr. Morrow: Well, they're here. Mr. Hloros: I'm talking about Laura Toy and everybody else. Are they going to .... Mr. Morrow: They will have their own hearing. All we're doing is getting it so R can go forward with a recommendation, as I said in my remarks. It will ultimately be decided by the Council and you'll have the opportunity to .... Mr. Hloros: Oh. We'll have the opportunity to talk to them? Mr. Morrow: Absolutely. Mr. Hloros: Oh, see, I didn't know that. I thought we were just talking to you and then you pass it on to them. So lheyll notify us when we can talk to them, correct? I'm on the listso I got the letter. Mr. Taormina: Lel me clarify that. It depends on what action is taken this evening by the Planning Commission. If the Planning Commission denies the petition and if the applicant chooses to appeal that decision, then, yes, you will be notfied of the appeal hearing. If, on the other, the Planning Commission this evening approves this petition, it will automatically go to the Council for a study session, followed by a regula r voting meeting, but there is no requirement that you be sent notices. So what you would need to do if they choose to approve this this evening, is track when the item will appear on the Council's agenda because there is no requirement for additional noUfcalion. Mr. Hloros: How do I do that? Mr. Taormina: You can call either the Planning Department, my office, or the City Council office and we'll tell you when this item is scheduled. Mr. Hloros: Can you give me your number before I leave. How long before they make their decision? Will that be tonight? Mr. Taormina: It could be. Mr. Hloros: Your recommendation, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Before you leave, you will know if its approved, denied or tabled. That's the three options we have. April 28, 2009 25219 Mr. Hloros: Okay. Good enough. Thankyou. Ms. Manetti: Is there an initial request from the Bar & Grill to have outdoor sealing or is this because with them having already the plans and everything, was there something prior to this? Mr. Morrow: No. They fled a petition with the plans as to what they want to do. This is our first look at it. Ms. Manetti: Oh, okay. I thought there was an initial request for outdoor and then they come with plans. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Okay. If there are no further people coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. We'd like the Petitioner's input as to some of the things you've heard tonight. Mr. Tominna: For one, I'd just like to apologize. Their concerns mean a lot to me, but there are Livonia Police in my parking lot every single day. They do their routine checks, come through, come in, come out. I usually always see them go through, say hi, ask them if there's something going on and always there's a no. I do have security on staff. We do our last call at 140 a.m. The employees are typically there until about 3:00 - 4:00 in the morning cleaning the inside. So none of my staff races out of the parking lot. I apologize for customers doing that, but you know, once people gel in their cars, you're not really in control of what they do. I don't know what more to say. Mr. Morrow: No, talktothe Commission. Mr. Tominna: I'm usually at work about 110 to maybe 120 hours a week. So the way I run my establishment is a reflection of me, and I try to be as personal and nice to our customers as I possibly can be. So this was kind of a new thing for me, but we'll definitely try to watch the noise things. As far as the patio goes, we have no thoughts on putting any speakers or live music out there whatsoever. If there is a time restriction, that people should be off the patio, I have no problem with that either, but typically patios are more quiet where people are just kind of sitting there talking. It would be kind of hard for me at 10:00 p.m. to tell a couple to just leave or something, but I have no problem with a time restriction on the patio due to noise levels. Mr. Morrow: The only comment I would make on that is, as I said earlier, when we look at the plans, we want outdoor dining. I think people sitting down having a dinner, maybe a drink or two, but all the problems we heard here tonight are not related to the patio per se. It's all emanating from the operation whether its Apel 28, 2009 25220 the music or what goes on in the parking lot. That's the concern. Mr. Tominna: I know that this is off topic because it doesn't concern the patio, but there are plenty of Livonia Police Officers that frequent my parking lot. I have talked to a few other restaurant/bar owners in the area, and they say it's just common police stuff that they do because I thought I was doing something wrong. They say, no, its just typical because sometimes there's some activities going on in the parking lot. So a few other restaurant'bar owners that I've spoken to said this is just typical Livonia Police Department check-ups, check -ins, whatever they're called, but I have no problem with decibel levels being read at the restaurant, but I would like to apologize to them for the noise levels. Mr. Taylor: Do you keep your front doors open, as it was indicated, when the music is playing? Mr. Tominna: Usually at 1:30 a.m., we open both doors because there are customers that are just leaving. Mr. Taylor. Is the music still playing at that time? Mr. Tominna: Usually the music ends between 120 and 1:30 a.m., sometimes they end a little sooner, sometimes they end a little later, but that's just typically on how if they start a little sooner or if they start a little later. Mr. Taylor: I know the people that are here are certainly in their place to be. Unfortunately, we do not have as much control over the Administration and the Council. The Council can ask the Administration for a report and recommendation. The Council can ask that there be a decibel reading taken. They can ask, like I say, for a report from the Law Department and from the Police Department. As the Chairman said, we're here looking at outside seating, which normally would close down at dark because there's not that many lights that they have. So what we're really doing is just trying to help his gentleman along with a lunchtime business because I know at lunchtime, I've been in there and there's very few people there and there s no noise there at lunchtime, that's for sure. I can understand where you're coming from, but we do not have the authority to do what you would like to have us do. All we can do is either say yeah or nay on letting him have 40 extra seats outside to help his business. We certainly are sympathetic for what you're saying. I've sal on the Council and heard that, and the Council has a lot Apel 28, 2009 25221 of power for what they can do, and chats the meeting you should come to, the Council meeting. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Any otherquestions ofthe Commission? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just want to clarify that you said that no outdoor speakers, no outdoor band. Is that correct? No live entertainment outside at all. You plan on none of that. Mr. Tominna: Yes. Ms. Scheel: And you would be okay if we put a time limit on outdoor sealing? Mr. Tominna: That would be fine. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Tominna: You're welcome. Mr. Morrow: A motion is in order. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by McDermott, and adopted, it was #04-29-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17, which property is zoned 02, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02- 06 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Patio Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 19, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Fence Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to concurrence with the Police Department and the Inspection Department; Apel 28, 2009 25222 3. That the Landscape Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to the following stipulations: - That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; - That underground sprinklers shall be provided for all the landscaped areas surrounding the patio dining area; - That all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; - That sizes and quantities of plant materials shall be reviewed by the Planning Department prior to installation; 4. That the outdoor patio seating shall be confined to the area designated for that purpose on the above -referenced plans and the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 40 seats; 5. That trash receptacles shall be provided for the outdoor seating area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 6. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers or outdoor live entertainment in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 7. That the outdoor seating patio hours shall be limited to 10:00 p.m. seven days a week; 8. That the number of parking spaces allocated for use by the subject full service restaurant and banquet facility on the combined sites of both the golf course and the restaurant/banquet facility shall be in accordance with the total parking requirement for the facility based upon the number of interior seats, outdoor seats and the number of employees in the restaurant; 9. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #298- 00, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2000-02- 02-12, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and April 28, 2009 25223 10. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that nofice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Ms. Scheel: I have a couple things I want to ask. Commissioner Taylor, would you mind on #6 if we also stated that there would be no outdoor live entertainment, as well as no outdoor speakers? Mr. Taylor: No problem. It's a good idea. Thank you. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And then I also wanted to double check that the changes that were talked about earlier regarding the fence and ingress and egress, is that going to be taken care of, Mr. Taormina? Mr. Taormina: If I understand the modified language of condifion #2, that would make it subject to the approval of the Police Department and Inspection Department. Mr. Taylor: Yes. I added with concurrence of the Police Department, could be and Inspection Department. Ms. Scheel: I'd also like to put a time limit on the outdoor patio. I guess I'm going to throw out 11:00 p.m. and see what the rest of the Commissioners think about that, if you think that's too late. Mr. Taylor: My opinion would be that it might be a little late. It usually gets dark around 10:00 p.m. at the latest time in summer. April 28, 2009 25224 Ms. Scheel: I'm okay with 10:00 p.m. I was throwing out a suggeston. Mr. Taylor: I would think 10:00 p.m. would be a good time. Ms. Scheel: You think 10:00 p.m. would be better? Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley, do you agree with that? Ms. Smiley: I don't have a problem with that. Mother Nature will probably dictate that anyway, but 10:00 p.m. seems reasonable. Mr. Morrow: So you concurwith the amendments? Ms. Smiley: Yes. That's fine. Mr. Morrow: Is there any other discussion? Mr. Taormina: May I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Sure. Mr. Taormina: Do you want the same time restriction to apply seven days a week? Ms. Scheel: I'm fine with seven days a week. Mr. Taylor: I'm sorry. I didn't hear. Ms. Smiley: If it's seven days a week, do you want it restricted to 10:00 P.M.? Mr. Taylor: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley? Ms. Smiley: That's fine. Mr. Morrow: So the maker and the supporter agree with those changes, Commissioner Scheel. Is there anything else? Then I will ask for a roll call. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor, Smiley, Scheel, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYES: McDermott ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None April 28, 2009 25225 Mr. Morrow: Just for the benefit of the audience, this Will go forward with an approving recommendation to the City Council. What also will go forward will be a lot of the comments that were made tonight. As I said in my earlier remarks, this is a waiver of use which means that it intensifies the use even though the culprit seems to be coming from the inside. As Commissioner Taylor indicated, a lot of the problems that you mentioned here tonight fall within the realm of the City Council, who will ultimately decide this. So on that note, we appreciate you coming out. I think its been productive so that the Petitioner hears your concerns and you've had a chance to gel them on the record as this petition moves forward to the City Council. As Mr. Taormina said, advise either Planning that you'd like to be notified when the Council takes action on it or call the Council Office. Mr. Taylor: Mr. Chairman, if I may, that Council number, if you have a pencil, is 466-2249. Mr. Morrow: As long as you have that pencil there, the petition is 2009-03- 02-06. 1 hope that suffices for the time being. ITEM#3 PETITION 2009-03-06-01 LANGUAGE AMENDMENT MAYORAL VETO OF PETITIONS Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Article XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. Mr. Taormina: Council Resolution #98-09 refers to and requests that the City Planning Commission conduct a Public Hearing regarding proposed amendments to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. This proposed language amendment stems from a 2002 appellate court decision in connection with a lawsuit that was brought on by Livonia Hotels, L.L.C. in connection with a request to operate a full service restaurant and to utilize a Class C liquor license within an existing building in the City of Livonia. Hooters of Livonia had proposed to operate a facility within a portion of the Quality Inn Hotel on Plymouth Road. In March of 2001, the City Council April 28, 2009 25226 granted the approvals. However, shortly thereafter, the approvals were overturned by a veto of the Mayor, which, at the time, was believed to be his authority under the city charter. In June of 2001, the owners filed a complaint in Wayne County Circuit Court. Four months later, after hearing arguments, the trial court dismissed the case without prejudice ruling that proper legal procedures had been followed. In an appeal to the Michigan Court of Appeals, the plaintiff challenged the trial court's decision on a number of grounds, including the legal authority of the Mayor to veto the City Council's approval of a special use. Ultimately, the Appeals Court found that the Circuit Court had erred in concluding that the Mayor had the power to veto the Council's decisions approving the waiver uses. While the City Charter grants broad veto power to the Mayor, the Zoning Enabling legislation directs that the Zoning Ordinance shall specify the body or official that is charged with reviewing special land uses and granting those approvals. In its current form, the Zoning Ordinance provides that an application for waiver use is to be reviewed first by the Planning Commission, which makes a recommendation, and that the City Council shall have the final approving authority. The Zoning Ordinance is silent with respect to the role of the Mayor in this process. As such, the Court of Appeals determined that the Enabling legislation prevails over the City's charter provisions in this respect, and since the Zoning Ordinance grants no stated authority to the Mayor to overturn the Council's approval of a waiver use, the decision of the Council is final. Although the Appeals Court had decided in favor of the hotel, the text of the Court's decision had stated that "the Oty Officials in Livonia may wish to specifically provide for Mayoral veto power in the future" In that regard, the Law Department has prepared an amendment to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance that would provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pefifions. We've attached to your staff analysis language that would amend both of those sections. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Very good, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: That's the abbreviated version. If you have any questions, Mr. Nowak is here to answer them. Mr. Morrow: I will ask Mr. Nowak if anyone corresponded with us in regard to this? Mr. Nowak: No, we have no correspondence on this item. Mr. Morrow: Because the Planning Commission is the petitioner, we will go right to the audience and see if there is anyone in the audience Apel 28, 2009 25227 wishing to speak for or against the granting of this pe00on. Seeing no one, I'm going to dose the public hearing and ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: I believe this is appropriate verbiage that we have in front of us, and therefore I'm going to make an approving resolution. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Scheel, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0430-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Arficle XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pelifions, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-06-01 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed language amendment will clarify that waiver use and rezoning approvals are subject to mayoral veto; 2. That the proposed language amendment will expressly set forth the role of the Mayor in the rezoning and waiver use approval process; and 3. That the proposed language amendment will provide for a check and balance system in regards to the approval of rezoning and waiver use petitions. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolufion adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, if I may just recognize Al Nowak for his hard work on this petition and the very thorough analysis that he's done to help summarize the long history on this issue. Mr. Morrow: It was lough research but you've got it down into a nutshell so your Commission can understand it. Apel 28, 2009 25228 Mr. Nowak: That's very much appreciated. Mr. Morrow: Thank you, Al. ITEM #4 PETITION 2009-02-08-04 MONTESSORI CENTER Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20. Mr. Taormina: This is located in Section 20 which is a square mile bounded by Five Mile Road to the north, Newburgh Road to the west, Schoolcraft Road and the 1-96 Expressway to the South and portions of Yale Avenue to the east. This property is on the east side of Newburgh between Schoolcraft and Five Mile Roads. Its one of several contiguous parcels that are owned by the Felician Sisters, a site that includes St. Mary Mercy Hospital, Ladywood High School, Senior Clergy Village, Mother House, Angela Hospice Care Center, as well as Madonna University. The Montesson Center of Our Lady is currently housed and operated out of the Mother House. The proposed new school would serve preschool and kindergarten -aged students. Its new location would be located one-third of a mile north of Schoolcraft, between the Mother House and Newburgh Road. I'll show you an aerial photograph of the location. Its actually on the north side of an existing driveway that extends east from Newburgh Road. The size of the new facility would be approximately 16,480 square feel. As you can see from this slide, its an "L" -shaped building. There would be a circular one- way drive that would enable students to be dropped -off and picked -up close to the main entrance of the building. There is also a playground that is shown in a rather large area that extends along the north as well as the east sides of the school. A Floor Plan was submitted with the application. It shows six classrooms, a multipurpose room, as well as staff and administrative areas that include the business offices, a reception area, kitchen, storage space, conference room and other support areas. In terms of parking, the ordinance requires one space for each employee as well as sufficient off-street space for the safe and convenient loading and unloading of students. There are 16 employees. There are actually 63 parking spaces provided for the facility's use, and those spaces Apel 28, 2009 25229 are located south of this driveway within an existing parking area. The teachers and administrators currently utilize this area for parking. The trash collection would be done internally. There would not be any trash enclosure provided. This is the Landscape Plan. You can see that it provides details on the location and species of all the plant materials that would be provided around the new facility. In terms of the architecture, the architect is here to describe this in greater detail. This is a rendering that I think shows it very well, but its a predominantly brick building with cast stone elements along the base as well as some of the accents around the building. You can also pick out from this rendering the structural canopy that extends out and covers the entranceway and would be supported by columns finished with the same cast stone material. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated February 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. It is noted that the site plan is for construction of a new school building just west of the existing convent site. An address for this new building has not yet been assigned. 36800 Schoolcraft is the address for the existing convent building. From the site plan, it appears that the new building will face Schoolcraft Road and would therefore normally be assigned a Schoolcraft Road address. However, the Angela Hospice facility is directly south of this building and is assigned a Newburgh Road address. In addition, this new building will be directly adjacent to a driveway which utilizes Newburgh Road. For these masons, if and when an address is assigned for this school building, it will be assigned a Newburgh Road address. It should be noted that permits will be required from the Engineering Division for this project." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 26, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct an elementary school on property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1) If subject building(s) are to be provided with an automatic sprinkler system, an onsite hydrant shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire Department connection. (2) Adequate hydrants shall be provided and located with a maximum spacing of 300 feet between hydrants. Most remote hydrant shall flow 1,500 GPM with a residual pressure of 20 Apel 28, 2009 25230 PSI. (3) This division requests that the entrance drive be posted Fire Lane — No Parking. (4) Any curves or comer of streets shall accommodate emergency vehicles with a turning radius of fifty-three feet wall-to-wall and an inside turning radius of twenty-nine feet six inches. (5) Fire lanes shall be not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width, able to withstand live loads of fire apparatus, and have a minimum of 13 feet 6 inches of vertical clearance." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 23, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Montessori Center Of Our Lady, located at 36800 Schoo/craft. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Studl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated March 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 19, 2009, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Are there any questions of Mr. Nowak? Now I'd like the petitioner to come forward and give us her name and address. Suzanne Carlson, French Associates, 1600 Parkdale, Rochester, Michigan 48307. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation? Ms. Carlson: I would like to add that we did bang, at the request of the Planning Commission, some materials, and if I could show those. Mr. Morrow: We were hoping you would say that. Mr. Taormina: While there's a lull in the action, I'll just point out that Ms. Carlson is the architect on the Court House. Mr. Morrow: Do you think we should set that up for our TV audience? Mr. Taormina: We can do that. Ms. Carlson: The intent of the brick is to match the brick that is on the exisfing provincial house. The roofing shingles are ashphalt and the coloration range that you see on the board there, the grayish greenish, certainly not the red or the white. Limestone will be a Apel 28, 2009 25231 buff color. There will be a limestone base along the bottom of the building and the columns as described by Mr. Taormina. Ms. Smiley: It's not on TV yet, is it? Mr. Morrow: I don't know if they've zoned in on it yet or not. There we are. Now our vast audience can see the nice brick and shingles. Ms. Carlson: Some additional details that we've been working through with the Sisters are additional brick details at the corners of the peaked elements and some limestone accents to further keep in context with the Mother House. Mr. Morrow: Do you have a prior slide on that that shows the dimensional where they have the copula on there? Ms. Carlson: I didn't see that on the earlier presentation, but we have submitted that with a copula on it. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, we have a copy of it. Mr. Morrow: There it is. I thought I saw it go by. That's the actual new archdectural outside as opposed to the three dimensional that we saw or two dimensional. There we are. Do you have any of the windows, Mark, with some of the treatment around them? Mr. Taormina: Around the windows? Mr. Morrow: Yes. Ms. Carlson: How about the front elevation that shows the window treatment? Mr. Morrow: We have some with ovals. There we are. That's what I was looking for. Ms. Carlson: Down in the lower right corner. Mr. Taormina: Right about here? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Am I getting it? You want the arch windows? Mr. Morrow: There we are. That's it. Ms. Carlson: That window element is an existing element on the north side of the Mother House, as well as on the west side that this building will be fronting. April 28, 2009 25232 Mr. Morrow: And I don't know if you have a specific lighting plan but our mofion will cover it. Ms. Carlson: We do have lighting direction. I have a hand out. I dont know if that's appropriate at this fime to pass those out, but its a lantern -style somewhat historic looking pole mounted fixture no more than 20 feel in keeping with the City ordinance. We haven't done the lighting calculation yet, but I don't think there would be probably more than four. Mr. Morrow: We'll condition it so it doesn't exceed 20 feet. So that's fine, and I think the only other thing was make sure you touch the bases on how the drainage is handled. Ms. Carlson: Yes, we've been working with the Engineering Department to meet the requirements and still maintain the manicured look of the campus that is important to the Sisters. Mr. Morrow: Okay. That's good. Anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Smiley: For those that weren't at the March 10 meeting, including myself, this is for pre-school and kindergarteners? Ms. Carlson: It's for pre-school and kindergarteners under five years old. Ms. Smiley: And how many students were you thinking of? Ms. Carlson: I think the license will be for under 122 students. Ms. Smiley: Okay. And then there's an outdoor play area? Ms. Carlson: There is an enclosed outdoor play area. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Scheel: Mark, can you put up the plan that shows the parking lot that you had shown earlier? Mr. Taormina: This one shows it better. Ms. Scheel: Okay. So when we have employees parking in the parking lot, are they going to have to walk through the entranceway in order to cross the street or is there going to be a walkway for them to go through that area? Ms. Carlson: They currently park where there is shown to be parking on the plan, and they do walk across the lot. Apel 28, 2009 25233 Ms. Scheel: That's how they do it currently? Okay. Ms. Carlson: We have provided two handicap spaces dose up to the building, which I think is an improvement over the condition now. is not really a handicap spot, but those two are handicap accessible. Ms. Scheel: When the employees walk across, do they walk across that island area there then, or do they go out to the driveway that they drive in on? Ms. Carlson: They would have to cross the driveway that they drive in on. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Ms. Carlson: The sidewalk connects to the road. The sidewalk is not the full loop. The sidewalk goes from where Mark is pointing to now to the far west end of the building. Ms. Scheel: Okay. But the sidewalk does start at the road there and then goes across? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And that boxed in area, Mark, like right above where you are right now. What is that? Ms. Carlson: Those are the handicap spots. Ms. Scheel: Those are the handicap spots that are right there. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I have a number of questions for you, Ms. Carlson, if you don't mind. The brick that you show a sample of, that's going to be a full face four inch brick, not a panel system. Ms. Carlson: Absolutely a full brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Great. And it's nice to see that you decided on the shingles. That looks like an attractive shingle so I think that's good. I had a question about what roofing system you had decided on. The lighting for the properly, you're going to have the decorative lanterns that you spoke of, which is going to be a pole mounted light. Then you're going to have wall packs on the building? Ms. Carlson: As they are required for emergency egress, yes. Apel 28, 2009 25234 Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And the playground area, which sort of material is going to be on the floor of that area. Is it just going to grass or is it going to have the rubberized .... Ms. Carlson: We'll have the required depth of shredded bark mulch that is required for the State licensing for child care facilities at the play equipment area. The rest, which is identified by the rectangle area, will be a lawn area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And you're going to have play structures out there in which the kids can play on? Ms. Carlson: Currently, there is a play structure or play yard that is not enclosed by a fence just about where the building is planned to be located. Our intent is to remove that and reinstall it a little bit more to the east to be out oflhe building pad. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And are you going to have any signage changes at Newburgh Road as a result of upgrading your building? Ms. Carlson: It is not our intent to make any changes to the signage on Newburgh. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I didn't see it on the plan, but are you going to have a flagpole althe front of the building? Ms. Carlson: We have no plans for a flagpole either. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I know you talked about having some elements of a traditional school, if you will, to make this look as normal as you can as far as a little brick school building concept, and I thought maybe a flagpole would be a nice part ofthat if possible. Ms. Carson: We would have to consult with the owners and see if that's something they would like to do. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. Ms. Carlson: I'm not sure how that fits in with the campus of the Felician Sisters. Mr. Wilshaw: Understood. Okay. That covers all my questions. I appreciate the enhancements you made with the copula and some of the building materials. It's a very attractive building, and I think the arches around the building are very nice. Ms. Carlson: We worked hard with the Sisters to incorporate their aesthetic to the building. Apel 28, 2009 25235 Mr. Wilshaw: Its very nice. Thank you. Ms. McDermott: I just wanted to clarify for the viewing audience that currently there is a Monlesson School on site. Correct? Ms. Carlson: Yes. It's currently housed in the first floor of the Mother House which is to the east of our proposed site. Ms. McDermott Okay. And would this be an increase then, a growth in the school, or do lheyjusl need more space in the Mother House? Ms. Carlson: Correct me if I'm wrong. Unidentified Audience Member: An increase in the waiting list. Ms. McDermott An increase with the waiting list? Ms. Carlson: Yes. I think their current enrollment is 90. Is that right, Sister? Unidentified Audience Member: 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Ms. McDernot: Okay. So I heard, just to repeal that for the viewing audience, then that currently we have 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon, and we want to increase to 125 for both morning and afternoon. Ms. Carlson: Yes. 125 at a time. Ms. McDermott At a time. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? Just give us a moment to see if there's anyone in the audience. I dont see anyone coming forward. So if there's no further questions, I'll ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: As an alumni of the Montessori School myself, I would love to say that they've done a fabulous job of leaching their students. Mr. Morrow: We'll make that determination. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. But I will offer an approving recommendation for this facility. April 28, 2009 25236 On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0431-2009 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet A1.01 dated February 12, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet Ll dated February 10, 2009, as revised, prepared by Nowak & Fraus Engineers, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; 4. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 5. That the Exterior Building Elevation Plan marked Sheet A4.01 dated April 7, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6. That the brick used in the construction shall be full face four (4") inch brick; 7. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a compatible character, material and color to other exterior materials on the building; 8. That the Petitioner shall secure the necessary permits, including storm water management permits, wetlands permits and soil erosion and sedimentation control permits, from Wayne County, the City of Livonia, and/or the Stale of Michigan Department of Environmental Quality; Apnl 28, 2009 25237 9. That all light fixtures shall not exceed twenty (20') feel in height and shall be aimed and shielded so as to minimize stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring into adjacent roadway; 10. That the pefifioner shall correct to the Fire Department's satisfaction the stipulations contained in the correspondence dated February26, 2009; 11. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for; and, 12. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval by City Council, and unless a building permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 979TM Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 979"' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on March 24, 2009. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and adopted, it was #04-32-2009 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 979" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Scheel, Taylor, McDermott, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Smiley Apnl 28, 2009 25238 Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on April 28, 2009, was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. ATTEST: R. Lee Morrow, Chairman CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Carol A. Smiley, Secretary MINUTES OF THE 980TH PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA On Tuesday, April 28, 2009, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan. Mr. Lee Morrow, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Members present: Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow Lynda Scheel Ashley Vartoogian Carol A. Smiley Joe Taylor Ian Wilshaw Members absent: None Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; and Ms. Marge Watson, Program Supervisor; were also present. Chairman Morrow informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these pefifions upon their fling. The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the proceedings tonight. ITEM #1 PETITION 2009-03-02-05 CAFE O LAIT Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2009-03- 02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lait requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebelt Road, located on the east side of Middlebelt Road between St. Martins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 114 of Section 1. April 28, 2009 25192 Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing zoning ofthe surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above-referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. As regards to the address, a prior correspondence to you dated July 1, 2008, from Mr. Robert Schron, City Engineer, incorrectly stated that the address for the site is 19618 Middlebelt Road. The business utilizes the address of 18622 Middlebelt Road. It is contained in a multi-tenant commercial building." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant (seasonal seating) on property located at the above-referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Earl Fester, Senior Fire Inspector. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plan in connection with Cafe O Lait, located at 19618 Mfddlebelt. We recommend that parking blocks be placed in the parking lot around the perimeter of the outdoor seating area as an additional safety measure for the patrons." The letter is signed by David W. Studt, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 20, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 27, 2009, the above- referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. This site as depicted and proposed is deficient eight parking spaces if the fourth tenant space were to be used as retail or mercantile. If the fourth tenant space were to remain vacant and unoccupied permanently, then the parking provided, 48 spaces, is in compliance with the parking required, 48 spaces. The alternative and recommendation is to apply now to the Zoning Board of Appeals for the eight parking space deficiency so that the fourth tenant space may be utilized for retail or like use in the future. The four parking spaces requested by the restaurant could make the fourth tenant space unusable. This Department has no objections to this Petition" The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence. Apel 28, 2009 25193 Mr. Morrow: Mr. Nowak, did that say they recommended that they apply immediately for the variance? Mr. Nowak: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions for the staff? Seeing none, is the petitioner here? If you will speak to your petition and add what you like. Mr. Safaoui: I'm sorry? Mr. Morrow: Speak to your petition and add the comments or whatever you can to present to us. Ayman Safaoui, Cafe O Lait, 19622 Middlebelt, Livonia, Michigan 48252. I have no comments. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. So I'll ask the Commission. Ms. Srriley: Were you aware of the request by the Police Department to put parking blocks around? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. It's already on order. It should be here any day. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? One comment I would like to make or gel some input. Routinely, do the people that work at your store routinely park in the rear? Mr. Safaoui: Yes, and I own the carpet store next door. I have a lot of space available, so my employees, they've been parking at the carpet area. Mr. Morrow: Okay, because ... Mr. Safaoui: That's about four or five spaces. Mr. Morrow: You have a little more flexibility than we see on the plan. Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just wanted to double check that you don't plan on using any outdoor speakers. Is that correct? Mr. Safaoui: No speakers and no lights. Apel 28, 2009 25194 Ms. Scheel: Okay. Great. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against the granting of this petition? Seeing none, I will ... Ms. Smiley: Are you going to gel the parking waiver use? You said you own the place next door, right? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Ms. Smiley: But they suggested in here that you gel a parking waiver so that you don't become deficient in parking or so that the fourth unit in there is able to have some parking should it become occupied. Mr. Safaoui: I'm not sure what the landlords want to do, but the landlords also park at the Value Carpel. So that's another two parking spaces, him and his employee. We're saving about eight, exactly, plus ... Mr. Morrow: So you are not the landlord? Mr. Safaoui: No. I'm the owner of Cafe O Lad. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Mr. Taormina, are you ... Mr. Taormina: We have discussed this matter with the owner of the center. He is aware of it. He is actively pursuing filling that fourth space. He thinks he has a tenant lined up and he is aware that he either has to have some kind of a reciprocal parking arrangement with the adjoining properly owner or seek a variance. Mr. Morrow: Okay. So he'll have the option of going forward or waiting until things materialize a little bit more. Mr. Taormina: Correct. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: The only problem we have ... and you're talking about north, sir? The building north of where you're located? Mr. Safaoui: Yes. Mr. Taylor: There's a big berm in there where you can't gel through there. When I drove over by there, it's all planting materials. You'd have to put some sort of a walkway through there. April 28, 2009 25195 Mr. Safaoui: They can walk in front from the carpel and the walkway, from the carpel through the Cafe. It's open. Its about three feet away from my window. Mr. Taylor: I thought I saw shrubbery and a berm along the sde on your north property line. Mr. Safaoui: It's open. It's about 34 feel. Mr. Taylor: Next to the building? Mr. Safaoui: Next to the building, yes. Mr. Taylor: I guess I missed that. Sorry. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, nobody came forward from the audience. I'll close the public hearing and ask for a motion. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and unanimously adopted, it was #04-28-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-05 submitted by Cafe O Lail requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant at 19622 Middlebell Road, located on the east side of Middlebell Road between Sl. Marlins Avenue and Bretton Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 1, which properly is zoned C-2 and OS, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02-05 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the outdoor seating shall be confined to the existing concrete patio in front of the subject restaurant unit as illustrated on the Outdoor Seating Plan/Site Plan submitted by Cafe O Lait, received by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009; 2. That the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 12 seats; 3. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor sealing area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 4. That fencing of a type approved by the Inspection Department shall be maintained along the borders of the patio that adjoin parking areas; April 28, 2009 25196 5. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 6. That the owner of the shopping center shall apply to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance for deficient parking, as recommended in the correspondence dated April 20, 2009, from the Inspection Department, for the reason that the site as depicted and proposed would be deficient eight parking spaces if tie fourth tenant space were to be used for retail or like use; 7. That parking blocks shall be placed along the south and west sides of the patio area as an additional safety measure for the patrons as recommended in the correspondence dated April 3, 2009, from the Traffic Bureau; 8. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #397- 08, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2008-06- 02-17, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and 9. That the specific plan referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time of application for a Zoning Compliance Permit for the outdoor dining. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? April 28, 2009 25197 Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. Normally, these outdoor dining requests are pretty easy to deal with because it's a pretty benign use, but this one concerned me a little bit because of the tight conditions that you have there as far as parking goes. You have a lot of parking in the back, which is not overly useable for your patrons, but it makes the parking in the front rather difficult. And this concerned me for that reason, but as I think about it, if you're restaurant does well and fills up all the parking spaces because all your seats are filled, it's only going to hurl your other business that's there and the hair cul salon. Its only hurling yourself if you have deficient parking. You seem to have an alternative parking arrangement next door that you've been able to move some of your cars to and if that's working for you and makes both your restaurant and your party store and the hair cut salon viable, then I'm fine with that. Mr. Safaoui: Yes, we're okay with that. Mr. Wilshaw: All right. Thank you. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#2 PETITION 2009-03-02-06 ONE UNDER BAR&GRILL Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor sealing for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17. Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the existing mining of the surrounding area. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Mark, if this is approved, who would initiate the amendment of the agreement? Mr. Taormina: Our Law Department would do that. Mr. Morrow: So you would see to that should this pass? Mr. Taormina: Yes. That was drafted by our Law Department, and we've had a discussion with them already on this. April 28, 2009 25198 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are five items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated April 15, 2009, which reads as follows: 'The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. The legal description included in the information is correct for that location. A review of our files shows a reciprocal easement agreement was entered into for this property; hence no reference to easements in the legal description. As regards to the address, 35780 Five Mile Road is the correct address for this building. 1 bust this provides the requested information." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from Livonia Fire and Rescue, dated April 9, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility on the property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 13, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with One Under Bar 8 Grill located at 35780 Five Mile Road. We have no objections orrec mmendabons to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Sludl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 23, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 3, 2009, the above - referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted. The petitioner has proposed to add an outdoor seating area that will add an additional 40 outdoor seats to the existing restaurant. There is currently a cross parking agreement that allows for 156 spaces to be used by the current restaurant and its employees. The proposed outdoor seating area will require 14 additional parking spaces plus any additional employees that may be needed. This parking agreement would need to be adjusted to reflect the additional parking spaces required for the proposed outdoor seating. This Department has no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspection. There is an additional letter from the Division of Police, dated April 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "This correspondence is regarding the request by One Under Bar 8 Grill for a patio service area. 1 have reviewed the plans that you emailed me and concur with your thoughts. An MLCC requirement is that a barrier encloses the area. This can be a fence or wall. Other than that, per the Michigan Liquor Control, the City can place whatever April 28, 2009 25199 restrictions they feel are appropriate. It is my recommendation that there only be an 'exit only' gate on the fence. There should be a means of ingress and egress for the patio area into the restaumntlbar. The drawings show a gate near the north door that empties out into the parking lot. By limiting access to the patio area only from the interior of the business, 1 think this would make it much easier to control patrons trying to walk out of the area with alcohol. 1 would also impose some noise restrictions for nighttime hours such as no loud music as there are homes immediately to the west of the business." The letter is signed by Donald E. Borieo, Sergeant. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Nowak? Seeing none, is the petitioner here this evening? Please come forward and give us your name and address. Brian Tominna, 35780 Five Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Good evening. Mr. Morrow: Do you have any remarks pertinent to your petition? Mr. Tominna: That gale that faces the north side is an exit only gale. You'd have to enter through the restaurant to gel into the patio. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Tominna, do you have a reason to have or need to have two ..exit only" gales out of that location as opposed tojust one? Mr. Tominna: Yeah. There's the one on the bottom. The other one is on lop. It's to enter back into the restaurant just in case if there's a, I don't know, a fire or something that people need two exits to leave from. From my awareness, that's what Liquor Control wanted to see also. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So your thought is that if there's a fire in the restaurant, they would exitthat door and then immediately go out the gale? Mr. Tominna: No, no. I'm just talking about patio purposes only. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. You already have an exit. On this plan, it shows the cornerlhere. Mark's highlighting it. Is that adequate? Mr. Tominna: I thought someone said that was an enter/exit, but it's only an exit only. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Tominna: I don't know ifsomeone said that. April 28, 2009 25200 Mr. Taormina: Actually, if I could clarify that? The plan is labeled "exit only" for the east gate, and ifs labeled "new exit and entrance gate' for the north gate. What the Police Department is recommending is that it be the same for both - exit only. So that would be self - latching and it would swing out and only be used for exit purposes for people leaving the patio. Mr. Morrow: If I'm reading this ... Mr. Taormina: I got that wrong. I'm sorry. You're right. Mr. Morrow: He doesn't want that going intothe parking lot. Mr. Taormina: That's correct. Mr. Morrow: So we're saying, the new gate connected with the patio, there would be no gate there. Mr. Tominna: Thais no problem. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Just so we understand. And the other recommendation was, I dont know if you saw this plan but the door that is right behind that, where the gate used to be that goes to the parking lot, based on the plan, he wants it swinging. Its swinging this way. He wants it to swing the opposite way so that it swings away from the patio. Mr. Tominna: Okay. That's no problem. Mr. Morrow: Rather than swinging into the patio, it swings toward the west. Do you follow? Mr. Tominna: Yes, sir. Mr. Morrow: Okay. I think chats just so you don't hit somebody coming up. Mr. Tominna: We wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we? Ms. Scheel: I just wanted you to repeat what you just said regarding the gate. You're saying that the top gate that is on our plan says ..new entrance and exit", that gate is going away totally? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr. Morrow: The one that's going into the north parking lot, towards the north parking, that's being deleted. Ms. Scheel: That's being deleted totally? There will be no gate there? April 28, 2009 25201 Mr. Morrow: Only the one on the east side will be egress only. So to gel to the patio, you have to come through the entrance. Ms. Scheel: Right. You come through the building. You actually go into the building to go out to the patio, but to exit out of the patio, you either have to go back into the restaurant or you go out the only exit gale. There would be just one exit gale off the patio. Mr. Morrow: That's correct. That's what we're driving at. Ms. Scheel: I just want to make sure I'm understanding that. Mr. Tominna: Real quick. I thought with Liquor Control, they wanted two gates. They're actually sending me some sort of verbiage on this stuff loo, but the only reason we included the two gales was because of Liquor Control. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chair, if I can address that? If that is the case, if for any reason a second access point is required, what we should do is label it for emergency egress only as opposed to allowing patrons to move freely through that area. That would be our recommendation. Mr. Morrow: So if it is in conflict with the Slate law, we will have to have it say ..emergency only,' but the officer indicates that we are abiding by the Liquor Control ordinance. Mr. Taormina: He's right. I did have the discussion with the Enforcement Division at the MLCC, who indicated to me that it's really the local municipality that decides how they want those openings provided. So if our safety codes require an additional exit, then we should label it "emergency egress only." Mr. Taylor: In speaking to the owner earlier, he was trying to gel golfers to come and sit in that area because he's not doing that great of a lunch business now that golfing is happening. If you shut the normal door that there's now on the north side, that's where golfers used to enter the restaurant. So now you're going to force them to go all the way around to the front. I don't know how convenient that's going to be for them to gel in that way because the whole design of the building was to bring golfers in on the north side of that door to come in and have a hamburger or whatever they want to have. I don't know how well that's going to work. Its going to be inconvenient. Let's put it that way. Also, when I talked to the owner, he said that they have no desire to have any speakers outside. I see in our resolution we speak to speakers, and I don't think that's a good idea. April 28, 2009 25202 "Item 6. That sound levels of any outdoor speakers shall be kept to a reasonable minimum." But I think the idea of putting the Item 5 that we had on the last agenda, 'that this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of any outdoor speakers" would be a good idea on this proposal. I don't have any problem with what he wants to do here. I think it's a good idea to try and generate business from the golf course, and that's what he's actually trying to do, a luncheon business. He does a very good business at night, but he needs luncheon business and that's what he's working for according to what he told me anyway. Mr. Tominna: I have no problem with not putting any speakers out there. I'm completely fine with that. Mr. Taylor: Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I agree with Mr. Taylor's idea that you gel a lot of business from that north door when you have golfers come in through that entranceway. Is it possible, you could tell me this based on your knowledge of the restaurant, to possibly leave that north door unobstructed with the patio, terminate the patio prior to that door, and then add an extra egress door so that you can service that patio with a new door. Is that a possibility? That way you would have the access to that north parking lot as well. Mr veghiazanan: If I may speak, I helped Brian put the design together for this. We did have a layout that did show that originally, and we thought that the requirement was that you had to enter the patio area through the bar. So if that's not a requirement, then we can certainly cut the gate across and attach it to the edge of the building and leave that door open. So, I guess, that's kind of where we're standing right now, is what is the requirement? Mr. Morrow: From the communications we had from the Police Department, I think they were trying to preclude people walking out of there with a drink into the parking lot. Of course, you know, the thing is, you could do the same from the east side, but I think we'll leave it up to the Commission to see what their desire is as far as how we send this forward. Mr veghiazanan: The original design did show that right across from the edge of the building to where that first brick pier is. We had a gate there, and that could be an "exit only' gate and that would be the only exit we would need. Mr. Wilshaw: Mr. Chair, Mr. Taormina, we have a number of outdoor dining patios at various restaurants that I'm sure have alcohol served Apel 28, 2009 25203 on them. Do they all exit from the bar area? Is that a requirement that you know of? Mr. Taormina: Yes, I think the majority of them, the ones that I can think of, clearly do, and they do not allow for customers to go in or out of any of the gates along the perimeter. Those are used for emergency exits. The one I'm thinking about is Claddagh. Mr. Wilshaw: Right. I'm not thinking about the gates so much as access from Mr. Taormina: Access from the interior of the bar, yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay, but cold One Under Bar & Grill, could the whole facility be considered a bar, or do we mean the bar area proper as far as where the drinks are served? Mr. Taormina: That I dont know. They would have to station somebody at the gale. There would have to be somebody there to control access at that point. Mr. Wilshaw: Bar Louie has an outdoor patio area. If someone was to take a drink out to the patio at Bar Louie, the doorway doesn't directly conned to the bar area. It goes through the dining area. Mr. Taormina: Oh. I see what you're saying. You're not talking about them interchangeably. Mr. Wilshaw: Yeah, I'm not talking about the gates. Mr. Taormina: I think that a door anywhere from the interior, whether its considered the bar or part of the dining area, would satisfy that requirement. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. That's what I was talking about. Mr. Taormina: As long as it mel the clearance, the aisle widths, from the inside. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So it could be an option that you could go back to your earlier design that you thought of, which is to put the fencing straight across allowing that northern door to be accessible as an entrance and exit to your restaurant and then add a new door to your patio area. That might solve both our gate issue and give you a little bit better access to your restaurant, if you're willing to consider that. Mr Veghiazanan: I'm not quite sure. Are you trying to say that you would like another door put in to where you can gel in and out of there April 28, 2009 25204 right through the restaurant, instead of actually physically like walking outside into the patio? Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Mr Yeghiazanan: So let me clarify. You're proposing that we would have to bust through the existing building brick and install a door there? Mr. Wilshaw: I'm asking you is it possible to put a door there? You know your restaurant better than I do. Mr. Tominna: There's two windows right there where the two skinnier parts are on the lop of the diagram. So it would be pretty hard to put a door there because we'd have to saw cul through the wall and R's all brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. So you're pretty much committed to this design. Mr. Tominna: It will cost a little more money to saw cul and then add an aluminum frame door. I'm guessing that it would probably cost an extra $5,000. Mr. Wilshaw: Well, okay. Then you do this with the realization that it's going to be difficult for patrons on the north side of the parking lot to access your restaurant, basically because they'll have to go all the way around your patio to get to the east entrance. Ms. Scheel: Can I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Are you contemplating? Mr. Tominna: I'm thinking right now. Ms. Scheel: While he's thinking, why is it that we dont want them entering in that spot? Why is it that there's a hesitation? Mr. Tominna: Well, real quick, the only thing I thought about with having people just entering on the patio by themselves is the fact that if they do that, usually how it works is when people come in, a hostess will greet them and then they'd seat them to their table to where they could allow the server to know that someone's here in their section. If people just come in and sit there, it's kind of like hit or miss. If someone doesn't see them, then I get yelled at and have to buy you guys dinner. Ms. Vartoogian: I have a suggestion. Could you put a piece of fence from where the existing building is across to the end where the fence ... so it would be straight across keeping that same entrance/exit as it Apel 28, 2009 25205 is, opening and closing, but then put an additional "exit only" gate on that one part? Mr. Tominna: Are you talking about that top portion up there? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. So just put a piece of fencing that would make it flush? Mr. Tominna: That's very easy to do. Ms. Vartoogian: That seems like it would solve all the issues. Mr. Tominna: That's pretty easy to do. So our people are either entering or exiting through a gate and then a door? Ms. Vartoogian: Yes. Mr. Tominna: That's a lot easier to do than to saw cut through the wall. Mr. Morrow: Does everybody understand that? Ms. McDermott Could we go over that maybe with the highlighter on the map, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Well, if I understand Miss Vartoogian, her suggestion is to extend the fence across here and allow for a gate to enter the patio here? Ms. Vartoogian: An emergency exit only. Mr. Taormina: Yes, but then the question becomes, how do they enter into the patio area. He would either have to add a door here .... Mr. Tominna: That would have to be an exit/enter. Mr. Taormina: It would have to be an exit/enter. So he'd have to have somebody stationed there all the time. I think he has a concern regarding his operations if he doesn't have some control of the people coming in and out, which is what the current plan provides for. Its only drawback, as was pointed out by Mr. Taylor and Mr. Wilshaw, is that it forces golfers to walk 80 extra feet or whatever the distance around the patio would be. Mr. Taylor: Obviously, the Police Department has a concern about what's happening. So I think you're better off just doing it the way they asked you to do it and see if it works out all right. If it doesn't work out that way and you have some problems, quite possibly you could come back. But I think in the long run, you're better off complying with what they would like to have you do. Apel 28, 2009 25206 Mr. Tominna: And what way is that? I'm pretty lost right now. Mr. Taylor: I'm kind of lost too. Mr. Wilshaw: I think we're at one gate exit only. Mr. Tominna: That's no problem. Mr. Taormina: But again, there may be a requirement for a second egress only as well. Mr. Taylor: Right. And if it is, you're going to have acquiesce to that, to the Liquor Control Commission. Mr Yeghiazanan: One of the other reasons for the double gate at the lop was to be able to load band equipment inside the building through that side door. So that was one of the other reasons for having a gale there, so you could bring materials in for construction or for whatever. Mr. Morrow: Well, like you say, if the State law requires it, its academic what we've been talking about and we go back to the original plan. Also, the logic is that we don't want alcohol going towards the golf course. However, we do have the ability to bring the golf course to the east. So I'm going to leave it up to the Commission to see if we go along with what the officer recommended orwe stick with the original plan. Mr. Wilshaw: I'm going to ask a question that has nothing to do with gates or fences. The lighting that you're going to have for this patio area, are you going to use existing pole lights that are in what will be the landscaped area to illuminate the patio? Mr. Tominna: Yes. I was out there last night leaf blowing some cigarette butts out and it was really, really lit up with the existing lighting. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The landscaping that you show on your landscape plan appears quite substantial. You're going to have no problem irrigating that with sprinklers and keeping it trimmed and looking good? Mr. Tominna: Yes. That's why we have some of the .... Mr Yeghiazanan: We also included some electrical duplex receptacles to be installed in the brick piers to be able to bring hedge trimmers and other landscaping equipment out there to be able to maintain that. Then as far as irrigation is concerned, if there's a Apel 28, 2009 25207 need in the future, I think there's an opportunity to install a sprinkler system not only on this side but there's another plot of grass area on the opposite side of the walkway that could also be sprinkled to maintain that area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. The height of the landscaping is going to be less than the height of the fence. Its going to be ornamental, small landscaping. Mr Yeghiazanan: Yes. If you look at the landscape plan and look at the material, R's mostly hostas and boxwoods and perennials. Mr. Wilshaw: I saw some burning bushes, which you can trim nicely. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Smiley: Do we have your name and address for the records? Mr Yeghiazanan: I am just helping Nt. Tominna out with the engineering. My name is Mark Yeghiazarian, 22156 Chase Drive, Novi, Michigan 48375. Ms. Smiley: Thank you. That made Marge very happy. Ms. Scheel: Commissioner Taylor had mentioned that he would like to have it so there's no outdoor speakers. Are you okay with that? Mr. Tominna: Unless he wants to come out and sing, but yes, I'm completely fine with that. Ms. Scheel: Okay. That's it. Ms. Smiley: Is there going to be music out there? Is this primarily for lunch? Mr. Tominna: Yes. There's going to be no music out there whatsoever. Ms. Smiley: Okay. In the evening hours, considering you're in Michigan, how late do you think you'll have the patio open? Mr. Tominna: Probably like to 10:00 p.m., I'm guessing. Not loo late if people are out there casually eating or something, but definitely not to 2:00 a.m. Ms. Smiley: Okay. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair Mr. Morrow: Seeing no further questions, I'll go to the audience and ask if there's anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against the granting of this petition? If you'll come forward and give us your name and address please. Apnl 28, 2009 25208 Catherine Hloros, 15153 Country Club Drive, Livonia. Good evening. I live in close proximity to this establishment in question. I want to make it clear that I don't have any objections to bars or meeting places, but other establishments of this type are always in commercial areas. They're not in residential areas. You can look on Haggerty Road, Five Mile and Farmington. They're all surrounded by parking lots and buildings that are not open at that time of the night or so forth. The band that they have playing on Friday and Saturday nights is so loud that my windows vibrate, and I have newer double paned windows. And that's with the windows shut. So what's it going to be like in the summertime when I want to open up my windows? Ours is a working class neighborhood, yet no consideration has been given to this fact by the establishment, the City or the Livonia Police Department. The language that comes out of that parking lot is atrocious, and it would bum the ears off a sailor. And the word of choice is always the 'T' word and it's not just males that are doing all the cursing. Sometimes they'll go out in the parking lot and scream just to scream. One night they had a contest as to who could scream the loudest. Vehicles scream out of that parking lot at a high rale of speed with fires screeching. The radios are blaring. Their cd's are blaring. And I dont sleep well at night so I'm up a lot. I am able to witness the activities outside the building and in that parking lot. I have yet to see a Livonia Police car go down Five Mile between Levan and Farmington. So I find it very humorous that they have no objections to this plan because I don't know how they'd know what it's like. This forum would have been totally unnecessary in my opinion if the establishment had been operated properly and with the neighboring residents in mind. There is no reason that any band has to play that bud. I don't feel any of us that are here would have any complaints about music if it was held to a reasonable level. As far as the parking lot antics, all that would have been necessary is if they had employed security for the parking lot. And if they do have security, they better hire another firm. Holding to that rule that you're either inside or gone would have prevented the current and ongoing situation. If the situation as it stands now is intolerable, outdoor seating would be just more of the same. I guess I'm a little disappointed. This is the first meeting that I've ever attended. It seems to me like you've made your decision before we even came in. So just listening to the plans and how you're going to adjust the seating and how you're going to do the outside, pretty much says to me that you're going to do it either way. But l really feel that it was necessary for me to voice my opinion, and I invite everyone of you to come sit in our driveway on a Friday or Saturday night and listen for yourself. April 28, 2009 25209 And this goes on unfil after 2:00 a.m. because they remain in the parking lot. The parking lot is not cleared. They leave the building but they do not clear that parking lot. They sit there and they party and they scream and they yell and they swear. So if any of you doubt what I have to say, I truly invite you to come sit in my driveway and listen for yourselves what it's like to live there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, ma'am, I just have a comment. As I said earlier, we are a recommending body. Part of our job is to take a petition, adjust it or do with it as we think would be the best option should it be approved. The Council will have the final say. We try to touch a lot of bases so that they dont have to. As far as the noise is concerned, there is a ... I don't know what the name of the ordinance is. Mark, there's a sound ordinance that is regulated by decibels. Ms. Hloros: Well, its not endorsed. It's not being enforced, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Well, probably no one has taken a reading yet. We'll have the petitioners give us some input as far as the comments that you made. So we dont know how this is going to come out, but part of our job is to clean it up and the Council will ultimately decide. We'll give them the best plan we possibly can. That's why we're going back and forth trying to clean it up. We may or may not approve it, but either way, it will go to the Council. If we deny it, they have 10 days in which to appeal that decision. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Does the Commission have any questions of this lady? Ms. McDermott: I don't have any questions, but I might suggest we do have quiet hours in Livonia. I believe it's after 11:00 p.m. So, have you tried to call the police? Ms. Hloros: Oh, yes, and some of the answers were, well, what exactly are they doing? How many are there? And, maybe you should move. Ms. McDermott: Okay. Then what I would suggest, as Chairman Morrow has said, is that we encourage some type of a test on the decibel level, you know, maybe in a random time frame, a few different times. I know that on my street when we've had some rather loud parties, and I'm not against parties and fun, but when they're still going on at 2:00 a.m. I have called and I do expect the same rights to be given to everyone. Quiet hours, like I said, I believe its 11:00 p.m. unless I'm incorrect. You can Mr. Morrow: April 28, 2009 Mr. Taormina: 25210 Mr. Morrow: correct me. But after that, the noise level should be dropped Ms. Marietti: and it should not be heard across the parking lot into a Mr. Taormina: neighborhood. That's just my opinion, and I think that we do have the ability to try and help with that. Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: This is a waiver of use. It is not a permitted use. However, we can give them waiver to do it. Part of the reason for the waiver is because it allows us to lake into consideration how it impacts the intensity of that business because it's not a permitted use. So your remarks are very germane to this Commission, and we'll give the petitioner an opportunity to get some feedback as it relates to your problems because he does have to keep control of his business. His business is to be conducted inside, and if there are problems in the parking lot, we certainly don't want you to move. Okay? Ms. Hloros: Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything else? Then I'll ask the petitioner to come up and respond. Oh, there's more people. I'm sorry. Diane Marietti, 15044 Fairway. Its whoever. It's residents, correct? Ms. Smiley: Yes. Ms. Marietti: Could you tell me how many homes were given notification of this meeting? I never got one. I heard about it. I live due south of the establishment. Mr. Morrow: Mark? Mr. Taormina: It would be everyone within 300 feel of the property. We have a list of those homes. I don't know if I have them with me or not. That information may be in our file upstairs in the Department. Mr. Morrow: Its 300 feel, Mark? Mr. Taormina: Yes, its all the properties within 300 feet. Mr. Morrow: Are you further than 300 feet away? Ms. Marietti: I have a bird's eye view of the east entrance from my house. Mr. Taormina: What's your address? Ms. Marietti: 15044. Apel 28, 2009 25211 Mr. Taormina: Whalstreel? Ms. Marietti: Fairway. I concur with what this lady said. Al 11:00 p.m., 12:00 a.m., once traffic drops down on Five Mile, we hear the conversations in the parking lot. I have called the police but unfortunately what usually happens is by the time the police get, there ft's quiet or people go back inside. If it were just for the lunch hour, I wouldn't have a problem. Mr. Taormina: Are you on the south side of Fairway? Ms. Marietti: Yes, well, on the south side, Fairway runs east. Mr. Taormina: Your property is more than 300 feet away. Ms. Marietti: The house across the street from me? Mr. Taormina: The houses on the north side of Fairway would have received notice. Ms. Marietti: I live across the street. Mr. Taormina: The houses across the street would not have received notice. Ms. Marietti: Okay. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Marietti: But it's very loud and I can tell you what the conversations are, even the day that accident happened less than year ago from there. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you. Edward Risk, 15125 Country Club. Good evening. They're my neighbors. I've got five post -it notes here; I could have 100. First of all, just three days, at 1:22 a.m., all kinds of noise out there. Racket, racket. What they do is, they keep their front doors open to the establishment, so that lets out all the noise. They had the loud band like they said Friday and Saturday, and they also have it on other days loo, not just Friday and Saturday, but Friday and Saturday are the worst. But they have the doors open. I mean they have to buy better smoke equipment or something. So that's the problem. You can hear the noise coming right from the band, loud, screaming. Then also when they have a banquet going on upstairs, and this is all after 11:00 p.m. quiet time. That's a joke. There's no quiet time. They didn't even Apnl 28, 2009 25212 mention the motorcycles, in and out, racing up and down the street, the cars. On 4/17 a12:08 a.m., a bus, similar to a Livonia senior bus, was parked there and everybody going in from the bar at eight minutes after 2:00 in the morning making all kinds of noise, yelling and screaming. They never seem to want to stop d. I just would like, and I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly, Mr. Tominna, and he lives in West Bloomfield. I'm sure at 12:00, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, I would just like it as quiet as his neighborhood is. It's ridiculous. I did call, and many times I called. Its Officer Hanes. 3!7/09 at 1:10 in the morning. He did say the same thing, more or less. Well, you want to have a compliant. I said, why don't you just go there and listen? So I dont even know if they go. I also mentioned to him, I said, is it because the City owns part of that and you're giving them a free nide? Its not right what theyre doing, and when they have a banquet up there like I say, and that's not as constant as the restaurant obviously, but when they do, they open up the doors up on the balcony and it's unbelievable the noise. Its not 11:00 p.m. Its 1:00, 2:00, 2:30 in the morning. And the things that go on in the parking lot are absolutely true, among other things I've heard. You could guess. Its just not right. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: Well, we certainly appreciate your input Mr. Risk: And if you guys do approve it, I'm going to tell you right now so its on the record, I'm going to call the Police. And I'm going to tell them, yeah, I did make the complaint. This is it here. I'm going to call them every day, every night until this stops because I don't think this should go on. They have the doors open to the establishment all night and the noise is unbelievable coming out of there. Three days ago, we heard the band louder than . I could hear the cymbals. I could hear the whole everything, the drums, the whole thing. I like to sit out there quiet. I just, like I say, we would like @ as quiet as the gentleman's neighborhood in West Bloomfield. How's that? Mr. Morrow: What we have before us is the outdoor patio. A lot of what you said is a condition of what's going on inside. Mr. Risk: It's no control. They should have security. They should be able to go out and tell them, quiet, keep the doors closed. And when they have the banquet upstairs, they have to keep it closed after 11:00 p.m. or so. And if they are going to stay till 10:00 p.m. with the outdoor restaurant make sure that it is exactly 10:00 p.m. and they close it down, because they're not doing anything and the police aren't doing anything. They have their little April 28, 2009 25213 checkpoints on Newburgh and Levan getting people for 5 - 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, but they won't do this. Mr. Morrow: Well, thank you, sir. But before you go, Commissioner Scheel? Ms. Scheel: If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question. The evenings that there are not bands playing, do you find the noise level loud then? Mr. Risk: Its still pretty loud. Ms. Scheel: Its still prefly loud. Mr. Risk: Nolas loud. Ms. Scheel: Not as loud as the evenings when the bands are playing? Mr. Risk: Exactly. Friday and Saturday are horrible, but they also sometimes kick it up on weekdays too, but not as bad. Ms. Scheel: Okay, but when you notice it the most is when the bands are there, the live performances? Mr. Risk: Yes, because like I say, they keep the doors open, but it is still continuous. It's still loud even during the week. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Risk: Because I lake my dog out late at night and, you know, there's motorcycles. I mean if the police would just get there like about ten to 2:00 a.m. and just sitthere. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much for your input. I would like the petitioner to share with some of his comments in response to what the neighbors have said. Ms. Vartoogian: There's another resident. Mr. Morrow: What I should have said, if you're going to speak - it's my fault, not yours. Normally, we ask the people to line up there so they're in close proximity. That's my fault, not yours. That's why. Its not that we dont want to hear from you. I just didn't see anyone there. Thank you. Jim Koch, 15041 Fairway. Good evening. We're directly south of the east entrance of the One Under Bar & Grill. I can look out directly at the existing upper and lower levels, where I believe they're going to be putting in this new patio area. The upper deck Apel 28, 2009 25214 extends about 5 to 8 feet out with poles that go directly down to the lower level and that's put in cement. I'm a little confused because I can't quite see the diagram up there. Is this 1,700 square foot parking lot area going to go east and then north because I don't really understand that. Mr. Morrow: Are you familiar with the grass that's out there now where the light poles are? Mr. Koch: Yes, I am. Mr. Morrow: That's where @'s going to go. Its going to replace the grass with landscaping around it. Its not really infringing on anything but the grassy area. Mr. Koch: Okay. If I'm not mistaken, the existing lights that are out there are basically pole lights that you would use for outside parking. I think they're continuing to use those so that there should not be any additional problem with that. And they say there's going to be no outside speakers. It wasn't clear to me if there's going to be at any time an outside band. That has not been addressed. Mr. Morrow: We will add that if you'll feel comfortable with that. Mr. Koch: Also, on the second level where they have the banquet facilities, those doors are generally open at all times of the year. People can go out on the deck and literally hoot and holler up, have a great time. Its not so good for all the people that live around there. There's no restrictions at that point either, and anyone who is going to be in the banquet facilities, there's no banner that will prevent them from going upstairs, through the restaurant downstairs, into the new area unless they lock doors to just sit there and continue hating their party on a lower level as opposed to an upper level, which is, of course, the same sound level, the same volume. What the people who have come up before have said is exactly correct. We live directly across the street and so we get a lot of noise. I guess it's fair to say that we have really good sound insulation in our house and we have really good windows, and we can hear the banquet facility all the time with the bands and the people yelling. That's not uncommon. The other thing that's a problem is generally about the time the bar closes up and the employees get out also, that's when it turns into a sort of a race track. You've got people out there hooting and hollering it up and seeing roughly how fast they can get out onto Five Mile screeching the tires as much as possible. All those things really speak against having another outside patio because there is no volume control, sound April 28, 2009 25215 control now. I saw on the diagram that there's going to be a visual barrier but nothing was discussed at all about some kind of sound barrier, a bene, whatever. The existing facilities, if you were to go into the lower parking lot, you actually go down and in. I'm not an engineer but I would assume that they would have to have some kind of additional drainage for that. A time frame was mentioned between Apnl and October. I didn't really quite understand if that is supposed to be the outside seating area time because the facility is open all year round. They've done a very good job, since we've been in the same house for 24 years, and we've looked out at all the businesses that have come and gone. They have been the only ones that have actually successfully stayed around. Mr. Morrow: The deed restriction applies only to parking. It has nothing to do with operation of the patio. Normally, that's done as the weather permits. Mr. Koch: Okay. There was mention about 14 additional parking spaces having to be created. Is that because of the new patio? It's going to replace 14 parking spaces? Mr. Morrow: It would mean that they would have to adjust the agreement between the property owner and the City where the golf course is. They would have to adjust it so that they can use those parking spaces. Mr. Koch: Okay. I also just wanted to ask, if they're going to do random decimal testing, that they do it on a weekend. Mr. Morrow: That was something we are going to pursue. Obviously, a large measure of your concern goes with our noise ordinance and 9 sounds to me like we're exceeding the allowable decibel. We'll see if we can find out a little bit more information about that. Mr. Koch: I don't know what the allowable decibel is. Mr. Morrow: I certainly don't either, but the ordinance does and its very easily recorded. Mr. Koch: Okay. I don't know if there is a standard that the City uses that says you cannot go above this decibel level at 11:00 at night. Mr. Morrow: You might speak to this a little bit better, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: There are decibel limitations as well as time factors as part of the noise control ordinance and that is enforced through our Inspection Department. April 28, 2009 25216 Mr. Morrow: Okay. Good. Thank you for that input. I was wondering who was responsible for that. It's our Inspection Department. Did we answer it? Mr. Koch: I doral believe so. I sort of got a general answer. Is it Engineering that's responsible for that? Mr. Morrow: No, no. The Inspection Department. We would request Inspection to go out randomly. Is that how it works, Mark? Mr. Taormina: The Police Department as well as the Inspection Departments Ordinance Enforcement Division handle these things. There's a whole chapter within our Code of Ordinances that deals with noise control that I can provide you with. Rather than give you specifics, I can give youlhe citation and you can look at that. Mr. Koch: Okay. I just also would also like to mention that this 1,700 square foot area that they want to make, by comparison, many of the houses in that same area have pretty much the exact same square footage. So even though it doesn't sound like much, it really is a large area. That's something that I think should be thought about and brought into consideration. Mr. Morrow: Did you say 1,700? Mr. Koch: Yes. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes. Mr. Koch: Thats 10 tables with four chairs each for a maximum of 40 people. Mr. Morrow: I looked at that area today and it didn't look anywhere near the size of a house. Mr. Koch: Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Gus Hloros, 15153 Country Club. Good evening. My biggest deal is after 2:00 in the morning. I dont see why they cant have a security guard or a bouncer or somebody there to make sure these people are out of that parking lot by 2:10, 2:05 a.m. I don't know what time is last call. What time is last call usually? 1:40 a.m. So I think by 2:00 a.m. that parking lot should be cleared. My wife and what everybody said is true. The noise is ridiculous. He's done a great job with the place because I like boulders. I've got a lot Apel 28, 2009 25217 of boulders around my house. He's done a great job with the landscaping and everything, but my biggest deal is after 2:00 a.m. what they do in the parking lot. It's just terrible. Like they said basically the same thing, the swearing, the 'f' word. You hear that constantly between the men and the gals and the flying out of the parking lot with the speeding and everything. I'm not an ogre or nothing because I used to go to bars myself, you know, and I used to party and have a good time loo. So I can understand that, but the point is, now you're in a residential area and it just gels crazy there, you now. So if Mr. Tominna could at least have a bouncer there maybe at 2:00 in the morning and make sure the parking lot is cleared out or a security guard, that would help out tremendously. They do it in other bars. I don't think it would be a big deal, and maybe save some lives because one day someone is going to get killed flying out of there, or there might be a big fight in the parking lot and something could happen to someone in the parking lot. They could gel shot or stabbed or whatever. But it would be a good idea to maybe have a bouncer and go into that parking lot and make sure they clear the parking lot out and get all the people out of there. That's about all I have to say. Mr. Morrow: I appreciate it. As long as you're up there, just so we go back to square one, the Commission is looking at an outdoor patio, which we assume is for low profile quiet dining. It sounds like from listening to the residents, that many, if not all of the problems, emanate from inside. So with your coming forward, you're enlightening the properly owners ofyour concerns. Mr. Hloros: Yes, I'm concerned about the elements after 2:00 in the morning. I mean they've been out there until 2:30, 3:00, 3:30 in the morning sometimes, and I mean I'm not going to go out there. What am I going to do? I go out there, I'll end up getting in a fight or if something happens and my wife says, Ah, don't go out there. And I don't like calling the police. We've called them a couple times, but you know, you do what you have to do, but I don't like doing that. I'd like the owner to maybe, Mr. Tominna, to gel a bouncer there. Gel somebody to clear that parking lot. That's my biggest concern. Mr. Morrow: You can always talk to the Commission. We're not hear to .... Mr. Hloros: Do we ever have a chance to talk to those people or do we just talk to you and you just recommend what we said here tonight? Mr. Morrow: They're hearing everything you say. They're going to have an opportunity to respond to what you say. Apel 28, 2009 25218 Mr. Hloros: Oh, okay, I understand. So they're going to hear everything we said tonight. Mr. Morrow: Well, they're here. Mr. Hloros: I'm talking about Laura Toy and everybody else. Are they going to .... Mr. Morrow: They will have their own hearing. All we're doing is getting it so R can go forward with a recommendation, as I said in my remarks. It will ultimately be decided by the Council and you'll have the opportunity to .... Mr. Hloros: Oh. We'll have the opportunity to talk to them? Mr. Morrow: Absolutely. Mr. Hloros: Oh, see, I didn't know that. I thought we were just talking to you and then you pass it on to them. So lheyll notify us when we can talk to them, correct? I'm on the listso I got the letter. Mr. Taormina: Lel me clarify that. It depends on what action is taken this evening by the Planning Commission. If the Planning Commission denies the petition and if the applicant chooses to appeal that decision, then, yes, you will be notfied of the appeal hearing. If, on the other, the Planning Commission this evening approves this petition, it will automatically go to the Council for a study session, followed by a regula r voting meeting, but there is no requirement that you be sent notices. So what you would need to do if they choose to approve this this evening, is track when the item will appear on the Council's agenda because there is no requirement for additional noUfcalion. Mr. Hloros: How do I do that? Mr. Taormina: You can call either the Planning Department, my office, or the City Council office and we'll tell you when this item is scheduled. Mr. Hloros: Can you give me your number before I leave. How long before they make their decision? Will that be tonight? Mr. Taormina: It could be. Mr. Hloros: Your recommendation, I mean. Mr. Morrow: Before you leave, you will know if its approved, denied or tabled. That's the three options we have. April 28, 2009 25219 Mr. Hloros: Okay. Good enough. Thankyou. Ms. Manetti: Is there an initial request from the Bar & Grill to have outdoor sealing or is this because with them having already the plans and everything, was there something prior to this? Mr. Morrow: No. They fled a petition with the plans as to what they want to do. This is our first look at it. Ms. Manetti: Oh, okay. I thought there was an initial request for outdoor and then they come with plans. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Okay. If there are no further people coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. We'd like the Petitioner's input as to some of the things you've heard tonight. Mr. Tominna: For one, I'd just like to apologize. Their concerns mean a lot to me, but there are Livonia Police in my parking lot every single day. They do their routine checks, come through, come in, come out. I usually always see them go through, say hi, ask them if there's something going on and always there's a no. I do have security on staff. We do our last call at 140 a.m. The employees are typically there until about 3:00 - 4:00 in the morning cleaning the inside. So none of my staff races out of the parking lot. I apologize for customers doing that, but you know, once people gel in their cars, you're not really in control of what they do. I don't know what more to say. Mr. Morrow: No, talktothe Commission. Mr. Tominna: I'm usually at work about 110 to maybe 120 hours a week. So the way I run my establishment is a reflection of me, and I try to be as personal and nice to our customers as I possibly can be. So this was kind of a new thing for me, but we'll definitely try to watch the noise things. As far as the patio goes, we have no thoughts on putting any speakers or live music out there whatsoever. If there is a time restriction, that people should be off the patio, I have no problem with that either, but typically patios are more quiet where people are just kind of sitting there talking. It would be kind of hard for me at 10:00 p.m. to tell a couple to just leave or something, but I have no problem with a time restriction on the patio due to noise levels. Mr. Morrow: The only comment I would make on that is, as I said earlier, when we look at the plans, we want outdoor dining. I think people sitting down having a dinner, maybe a drink or two, but all the problems we heard here tonight are not related to the patio per se. It's all emanating from the operation whether its Apel 28, 2009 25220 the music or what goes on in the parking lot. That's the concern. Mr. Tominna: I know that this is off topic because it doesn't concern the patio, but there are plenty of Livonia Police Officers that frequent my parking lot. I have talked to a few other restaurant/bar owners in the area, and they say it's just common police stuff that they do because I thought I was doing something wrong. They say, no, its just typical because sometimes there's some activities going on in the parking lot. So a few other restaurant'bar owners that I've spoken to said this is just typical Livonia Police Department check-ups, check -ins, whatever they're called, but I have no problem with decibel levels being read at the restaurant, but I would like to apologize to them for the noise levels. Mr. Taylor: Do you keep your front doors open, as it was indicated, when the music is playing? Mr. Tominna: Usually at 1:30 a.m., we open both doors because there are customers that are just leaving. Mr. Taylor. Is the music still playing at that time? Mr. Tominna: Usually the music ends between 120 and 1:30 a.m., sometimes they end a little sooner, sometimes they end a little later, but that's just typically on how if they start a little sooner or if they start a little later. Mr. Taylor: I know the people that are here are certainly in their place to be. Unfortunately, we do not have as much control over the Administration and the Council. The Council can ask the Administration for a report and recommendation. The Council can ask that there be a decibel reading taken. They can ask, like I say, for a report from the Law Department and from the Police Department. As the Chairman said, we're here looking at outside seating, which normally would close down at dark because there's not that many lights that they have. So what we're really doing is just trying to help his gentleman along with a lunchtime business because I know at lunchtime, I've been in there and there's very few people there and there s no noise there at lunchtime, that's for sure. I can understand where you're coming from, but we do not have the authority to do what you would like to have us do. All we can do is either say yeah or nay on letting him have 40 extra seats outside to help his business. We certainly are sympathetic for what you're saying. I've sal on the Council and heard that, and the Council has a lot Apel 28, 2009 25221 of power for what they can do, and chats the meeting you should come to, the Council meeting. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Any otherquestions ofthe Commission? Ms. Scheel: Thank you. I just want to clarify that you said that no outdoor speakers, no outdoor band. Is that correct? No live entertainment outside at all. You plan on none of that. Mr. Tominna: Yes. Ms. Scheel: And you would be okay if we put a time limit on outdoor sealing? Mr. Tominna: That would be fine. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Tominna: You're welcome. Mr. Morrow: A motion is in order. On a motion by Taylor, seconded by McDermott, and adopted, it was #04-29-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-02-06 submitted by One Under Bar & Grill requesting waiver use approval for outdoor seating for an existing full service restaurant and banquet facility at 35780 Five Mile Road, located on the north side of Five Mile Road between Ellen Road and Golfview in the Southeast 1/4 of Section 17, which property is zoned 02, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-02- 06 be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Patio Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 19, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Fence Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to concurrence with the Police Department and the Inspection Department; Apel 28, 2009 25222 3. That the Landscape Layout Plan submitted by One Under Bar & Grill, dated March 23, 2009, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to, subject to the following stipulations: - That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; - That underground sprinklers shall be provided for all the landscaped areas surrounding the patio dining area; - That all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; - That sizes and quantities of plant materials shall be reviewed by the Planning Department prior to installation; 4. That the outdoor patio seating shall be confined to the area designated for that purpose on the above -referenced plans and the maximum outdoor seating count shall not exceed 40 seats; 5. That trash receptacles shall be provided for the outdoor seating area and shall be emptied regularly as needed; 6. That this approving resolution does not grant approval for the use of outdoor speakers or outdoor live entertainment in connection with the outdoor seating patio; 7. That the outdoor seating patio hours shall be limited to 10:00 p.m. seven days a week; 8. That the number of parking spaces allocated for use by the subject full service restaurant and banquet facility on the combined sites of both the golf course and the restaurant/banquet facility shall be in accordance with the total parking requirement for the facility based upon the number of interior seats, outdoor seats and the number of employees in the restaurant; 9. That all conditions imposed by Council Resolution #298- 00, which granted waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at this location under Petition 2000-02- 02-12, shall remain in effect to the extent that they are not in conflict with this approval; and April 28, 2009 25223 10. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for. Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and general waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543; 2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the proposed use; and 3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony with the surrounding uses in the area. FURTHER RESOLVED, that nofice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow: Is there any discussion? Ms. Scheel: I have a couple things I want to ask. Commissioner Taylor, would you mind on #6 if we also stated that there would be no outdoor live entertainment, as well as no outdoor speakers? Mr. Taylor: No problem. It's a good idea. Thank you. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And then I also wanted to double check that the changes that were talked about earlier regarding the fence and ingress and egress, is that going to be taken care of, Mr. Taormina? Mr. Taormina: If I understand the modified language of condifion #2, that would make it subject to the approval of the Police Department and Inspection Department. Mr. Taylor: Yes. I added with concurrence of the Police Department, could be and Inspection Department. Ms. Scheel: I'd also like to put a time limit on the outdoor patio. I guess I'm going to throw out 11:00 p.m. and see what the rest of the Commissioners think about that, if you think that's too late. Mr. Taylor: My opinion would be that it might be a little late. It usually gets dark around 10:00 p.m. at the latest time in summer. April 28, 2009 25224 Ms. Scheel: I'm okay with 10:00 p.m. I was throwing out a suggeston. Mr. Taylor: I would think 10:00 p.m. would be a good time. Ms. Scheel: You think 10:00 p.m. would be better? Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley, do you agree with that? Ms. Smiley: I don't have a problem with that. Mother Nature will probably dictate that anyway, but 10:00 p.m. seems reasonable. Mr. Morrow: So you concurwith the amendments? Ms. Smiley: Yes. That's fine. Mr. Morrow: Is there any other discussion? Mr. Taormina: May I ask a question? Mr. Morrow: Sure. Mr. Taormina: Do you want the same time restriction to apply seven days a week? Ms. Scheel: I'm fine with seven days a week. Mr. Taylor: I'm sorry. I didn't hear. Ms. Smiley: If it's seven days a week, do you want it restricted to 10:00 P.M.? Mr. Taylor: Yes. Mr. Morrow: Commissioner Smiley? Ms. Smiley: That's fine. Mr. Morrow: So the maker and the supporter agree with those changes, Commissioner Scheel. Is there anything else? Then I will ask for a roll call. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Taylor, Smiley, Scheel, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYES: McDermott ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None April 28, 2009 25225 Mr. Morrow: Just for the benefit of the audience, this Will go forward with an approving recommendation to the City Council. What also will go forward will be a lot of the comments that were made tonight. As I said in my earlier remarks, this is a waiver of use which means that it intensifies the use even though the culprit seems to be coming from the inside. As Commissioner Taylor indicated, a lot of the problems that you mentioned here tonight fall within the realm of the City Council, who will ultimately decide this. So on that note, we appreciate you coming out. I think its been productive so that the Petitioner hears your concerns and you've had a chance to gel them on the record as this petition moves forward to the City Council. As Mr. Taormina said, advise either Planning that you'd like to be notified when the Council takes action on it or call the Council Office. Mr. Taylor: Mr. Chairman, if I may, that Council number, if you have a pencil, is 466-2249. Mr. Morrow: As long as you have that pencil there, the petition is 2009-03- 02-06. 1 hope that suffices for the time being. ITEM#3 PETITION 2009-03-06-01 LANGUAGE AMENDMENT MAYORAL VETO OF PETITIONS Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Article XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. Mr. Taormina: Council Resolution #98-09 refers to and requests that the City Planning Commission conduct a Public Hearing regarding proposed amendments to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning petitions. This proposed language amendment stems from a 2002 appellate court decision in connection with a lawsuit that was brought on by Livonia Hotels, L.L.C. in connection with a request to operate a full service restaurant and to utilize a Class C liquor license within an existing building in the City of Livonia. Hooters of Livonia had proposed to operate a facility within a portion of the Quality Inn Hotel on Plymouth Road. In March of 2001, the City Council April 28, 2009 25226 granted the approvals. However, shortly thereafter, the approvals were overturned by a veto of the Mayor, which, at the time, was believed to be his authority under the city charter. In June of 2001, the owners filed a complaint in Wayne County Circuit Court. Four months later, after hearing arguments, the trial court dismissed the case without prejudice ruling that proper legal procedures had been followed. In an appeal to the Michigan Court of Appeals, the plaintiff challenged the trial court's decision on a number of grounds, including the legal authority of the Mayor to veto the City Council's approval of a special use. Ultimately, the Appeals Court found that the Circuit Court had erred in concluding that the Mayor had the power to veto the Council's decisions approving the waiver uses. While the City Charter grants broad veto power to the Mayor, the Zoning Enabling legislation directs that the Zoning Ordinance shall specify the body or official that is charged with reviewing special land uses and granting those approvals. In its current form, the Zoning Ordinance provides that an application for waiver use is to be reviewed first by the Planning Commission, which makes a recommendation, and that the City Council shall have the final approving authority. The Zoning Ordinance is silent with respect to the role of the Mayor in this process. As such, the Court of Appeals determined that the Enabling legislation prevails over the City's charter provisions in this respect, and since the Zoning Ordinance grants no stated authority to the Mayor to overturn the Council's approval of a waiver use, the decision of the Council is final. Although the Appeals Court had decided in favor of the hotel, the text of the Court's decision had stated that "the Oty Officials in Livonia may wish to specifically provide for Mayoral veto power in the future" In that regard, the Law Department has prepared an amendment to Sections 19.06 and 23.06 of the Zoning Ordinance that would provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pefifions. We've attached to your staff analysis language that would amend both of those sections. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Very good, Mr. Taormina. Mr. Taormina: That's the abbreviated version. If you have any questions, Mr. Nowak is here to answer them. Mr. Morrow: I will ask Mr. Nowak if anyone corresponded with us in regard to this? Mr. Nowak: No, we have no correspondence on this item. Mr. Morrow: Because the Planning Commission is the petitioner, we will go right to the audience and see if there is anyone in the audience Apel 28, 2009 25227 wishing to speak for or against the granting of this pe00on. Seeing no one, I'm going to dose the public hearing and ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: I believe this is appropriate verbiage that we have in front of us, and therefore I'm going to make an approving resolution. On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Scheel, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0430-2009 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City Planning Commission on April 28, 2009, on Petition 2009-03-06-01 submitted by the City Planning Commission, pursuant to Council Resolution #98-09, and Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance, as amended, proposing to amend Section 19.06 of Article XIX and Section 23.06 of Arficle XXIII of the City of Livonia Zoning Ordinance in order to provide for a Mayoral veto of waiver use and rezoning pelifions, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-03-06-01 be approved for the following reasons: 1. That the proposed language amendment will clarify that waiver use and rezoning approvals are subject to mayoral veto; 2. That the proposed language amendment will expressly set forth the role of the Mayor in the rezoning and waiver use approval process; and 3. That the proposed language amendment will provide for a check and balance system in regards to the approval of rezoning and waiver use petitions. FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolufion adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman, if I may just recognize Al Nowak for his hard work on this petition and the very thorough analysis that he's done to help summarize the long history on this issue. Mr. Morrow: It was lough research but you've got it down into a nutshell so your Commission can understand it. Apel 28, 2009 25228 Mr. Nowak: That's very much appreciated. Mr. Morrow: Thank you, Al. ITEM #4 PETITION 2009-02-08-04 MONTESSORI CENTER Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2009- 02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20. Mr. Taormina: This is located in Section 20 which is a square mile bounded by Five Mile Road to the north, Newburgh Road to the west, Schoolcraft Road and the 1-96 Expressway to the South and portions of Yale Avenue to the east. This property is on the east side of Newburgh between Schoolcraft and Five Mile Roads. Its one of several contiguous parcels that are owned by the Felician Sisters, a site that includes St. Mary Mercy Hospital, Ladywood High School, Senior Clergy Village, Mother House, Angela Hospice Care Center, as well as Madonna University. The Montesson Center of Our Lady is currently housed and operated out of the Mother House. The proposed new school would serve preschool and kindergarten -aged students. Its new location would be located one-third of a mile north of Schoolcraft, between the Mother House and Newburgh Road. I'll show you an aerial photograph of the location. Its actually on the north side of an existing driveway that extends east from Newburgh Road. The size of the new facility would be approximately 16,480 square feel. As you can see from this slide, its an "L" -shaped building. There would be a circular one- way drive that would enable students to be dropped -off and picked -up close to the main entrance of the building. There is also a playground that is shown in a rather large area that extends along the north as well as the east sides of the school. A Floor Plan was submitted with the application. It shows six classrooms, a multipurpose room, as well as staff and administrative areas that include the business offices, a reception area, kitchen, storage space, conference room and other support areas. In terms of parking, the ordinance requires one space for each employee as well as sufficient off-street space for the safe and convenient loading and unloading of students. There are 16 employees. There are actually 63 parking spaces provided for the facility's use, and those spaces Apel 28, 2009 25229 are located south of this driveway within an existing parking area. The teachers and administrators currently utilize this area for parking. The trash collection would be done internally. There would not be any trash enclosure provided. This is the Landscape Plan. You can see that it provides details on the location and species of all the plant materials that would be provided around the new facility. In terms of the architecture, the architect is here to describe this in greater detail. This is a rendering that I think shows it very well, but its a predominantly brick building with cast stone elements along the base as well as some of the accents around the building. You can also pick out from this rendering the structural canopy that extends out and covers the entranceway and would be supported by columns finished with the same cast stone material. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Are there any questions for Mr. Taormina? Seeing none, Mr. Nowak, is there any correspondence? Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from the Engineering Division, dated February 27, 2009, which reads as follows: "The Engineering Division has reviewed the site plan associated with the above -referenced petition. It is noted that the site plan is for construction of a new school building just west of the existing convent site. An address for this new building has not yet been assigned. 36800 Schoolcraft is the address for the existing convent building. From the site plan, it appears that the new building will face Schoolcraft Road and would therefore normally be assigned a Schoolcraft Road address. However, the Angela Hospice facility is directly south of this building and is assigned a Newburgh Road address. In addition, this new building will be directly adjacent to a driveway which utilizes Newburgh Road. For these masons, if and when an address is assigned for this school building, it will be assigned a Newburgh Road address. It should be noted that permits will be required from the Engineering Division for this project." The letter is signed by Kevin G. Roney, P.E., Assistant City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated February 26, 2009, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct an elementary school on property located at the above -referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1) If subject building(s) are to be provided with an automatic sprinkler system, an onsite hydrant shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire Department connection. (2) Adequate hydrants shall be provided and located with a maximum spacing of 300 feet between hydrants. Most remote hydrant shall flow 1,500 GPM with a residual pressure of 20 Apel 28, 2009 25230 PSI. (3) This division requests that the entrance drive be posted Fire Lane — No Parking. (4) Any curves or comer of streets shall accommodate emergency vehicles with a turning radius of fifty-three feet wall-to-wall and an inside turning radius of twenty-nine feet six inches. (5) Fire lanes shall be not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width, able to withstand live loads of fire apparatus, and have a minimum of 13 feet 6 inches of vertical clearance." The letter is signed by Donald F. Donnelley, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated February 23, 2009, which reads as follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with Montessori Center Of Our Lady, located at 36800 Schoo/craft. We have no objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The letter is signed by David W. Studl, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated March 3, 2009, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of February 19, 2009, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Jerome Hanna, Assistant Director of Inspector. That is the extent of the correspondence. Mr. Morrow: Thank you. Are there any questions of Mr. Nowak? Now I'd like the petitioner to come forward and give us her name and address. Suzanne Carlson, French Associates, 1600 Parkdale, Rochester, Michigan 48307. Mr. Morrow: Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation? Ms. Carlson: I would like to add that we did bang, at the request of the Planning Commission, some materials, and if I could show those. Mr. Morrow: We were hoping you would say that. Mr. Taormina: While there's a lull in the action, I'll just point out that Ms. Carlson is the architect on the Court House. Mr. Morrow: Do you think we should set that up for our TV audience? Mr. Taormina: We can do that. Ms. Carlson: The intent of the brick is to match the brick that is on the exisfing provincial house. The roofing shingles are ashphalt and the coloration range that you see on the board there, the grayish greenish, certainly not the red or the white. Limestone will be a Apel 28, 2009 25231 buff color. There will be a limestone base along the bottom of the building and the columns as described by Mr. Taormina. Ms. Smiley: It's not on TV yet, is it? Mr. Morrow: I don't know if they've zoned in on it yet or not. There we are. Now our vast audience can see the nice brick and shingles. Ms. Carlson: Some additional details that we've been working through with the Sisters are additional brick details at the corners of the peaked elements and some limestone accents to further keep in context with the Mother House. Mr. Morrow: Do you have a prior slide on that that shows the dimensional where they have the copula on there? Ms. Carlson: I didn't see that on the earlier presentation, but we have submitted that with a copula on it. Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, we have a copy of it. Mr. Morrow: There it is. I thought I saw it go by. That's the actual new archdectural outside as opposed to the three dimensional that we saw or two dimensional. There we are. Do you have any of the windows, Mark, with some of the treatment around them? Mr. Taormina: Around the windows? Mr. Morrow: Yes. Ms. Carlson: How about the front elevation that shows the window treatment? Mr. Morrow: We have some with ovals. There we are. That's what I was looking for. Ms. Carlson: Down in the lower right corner. Mr. Taormina: Right about here? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Mr. Taormina: Am I getting it? You want the arch windows? Mr. Morrow: There we are. That's it. Ms. Carlson: That window element is an existing element on the north side of the Mother House, as well as on the west side that this building will be fronting. April 28, 2009 25232 Mr. Morrow: And I don't know if you have a specific lighting plan but our mofion will cover it. Ms. Carlson: We do have lighting direction. I have a hand out. I dont know if that's appropriate at this fime to pass those out, but its a lantern -style somewhat historic looking pole mounted fixture no more than 20 feel in keeping with the City ordinance. We haven't done the lighting calculation yet, but I don't think there would be probably more than four. Mr. Morrow: We'll condition it so it doesn't exceed 20 feet. So that's fine, and I think the only other thing was make sure you touch the bases on how the drainage is handled. Ms. Carlson: Yes, we've been working with the Engineering Department to meet the requirements and still maintain the manicured look of the campus that is important to the Sisters. Mr. Morrow: Okay. That's good. Anything else, Commissioners? Ms. Smiley: For those that weren't at the March 10 meeting, including myself, this is for pre-school and kindergarteners? Ms. Carlson: It's for pre-school and kindergarteners under five years old. Ms. Smiley: And how many students were you thinking of? Ms. Carlson: I think the license will be for under 122 students. Ms. Smiley: Okay. And then there's an outdoor play area? Ms. Carlson: There is an enclosed outdoor play area. Ms. Smiley: Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Scheel: Mark, can you put up the plan that shows the parking lot that you had shown earlier? Mr. Taormina: This one shows it better. Ms. Scheel: Okay. So when we have employees parking in the parking lot, are they going to have to walk through the entranceway in order to cross the street or is there going to be a walkway for them to go through that area? Ms. Carlson: They currently park where there is shown to be parking on the plan, and they do walk across the lot. Apel 28, 2009 25233 Ms. Scheel: That's how they do it currently? Okay. Ms. Carlson: We have provided two handicap spaces dose up to the building, which I think is an improvement over the condition now. is not really a handicap spot, but those two are handicap accessible. Ms. Scheel: When the employees walk across, do they walk across that island area there then, or do they go out to the driveway that they drive in on? Ms. Carlson: They would have to cross the driveway that they drive in on. Ms. Scheel: Okay. Ms. Carlson: The sidewalk connects to the road. The sidewalk is not the full loop. The sidewalk goes from where Mark is pointing to now to the far west end of the building. Ms. Scheel: Okay. But the sidewalk does start at the road there and then goes across? Ms. Carlson: Yes. Ms. Scheel: Okay. And that boxed in area, Mark, like right above where you are right now. What is that? Ms. Carlson: Those are the handicap spots. Ms. Scheel: Those are the handicap spots that are right there. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Wilshaw: I have a number of questions for you, Ms. Carlson, if you don't mind. The brick that you show a sample of, that's going to be a full face four inch brick, not a panel system. Ms. Carlson: Absolutely a full brick. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Great. And it's nice to see that you decided on the shingles. That looks like an attractive shingle so I think that's good. I had a question about what roofing system you had decided on. The lighting for the properly, you're going to have the decorative lanterns that you spoke of, which is going to be a pole mounted light. Then you're going to have wall packs on the building? Ms. Carlson: As they are required for emergency egress, yes. Apel 28, 2009 25234 Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And the playground area, which sort of material is going to be on the floor of that area. Is it just going to grass or is it going to have the rubberized .... Ms. Carlson: We'll have the required depth of shredded bark mulch that is required for the State licensing for child care facilities at the play equipment area. The rest, which is identified by the rectangle area, will be a lawn area. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And you're going to have play structures out there in which the kids can play on? Ms. Carlson: Currently, there is a play structure or play yard that is not enclosed by a fence just about where the building is planned to be located. Our intent is to remove that and reinstall it a little bit more to the east to be out oflhe building pad. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. And are you going to have any signage changes at Newburgh Road as a result of upgrading your building? Ms. Carlson: It is not our intent to make any changes to the signage on Newburgh. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I didn't see it on the plan, but are you going to have a flagpole althe front of the building? Ms. Carlson: We have no plans for a flagpole either. Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. I know you talked about having some elements of a traditional school, if you will, to make this look as normal as you can as far as a little brick school building concept, and I thought maybe a flagpole would be a nice part ofthat if possible. Ms. Carson: We would have to consult with the owners and see if that's something they would like to do. Mr. Wilshaw: Sure. Ms. Carlson: I'm not sure how that fits in with the campus of the Felician Sisters. Mr. Wilshaw: Understood. Okay. That covers all my questions. I appreciate the enhancements you made with the copula and some of the building materials. It's a very attractive building, and I think the arches around the building are very nice. Ms. Carlson: We worked hard with the Sisters to incorporate their aesthetic to the building. Apel 28, 2009 25235 Mr. Wilshaw: Its very nice. Thank you. Ms. McDermott: I just wanted to clarify for the viewing audience that currently there is a Monlesson School on site. Correct? Ms. Carlson: Yes. It's currently housed in the first floor of the Mother House which is to the east of our proposed site. Ms. McDermott Okay. And would this be an increase then, a growth in the school, or do lheyjusl need more space in the Mother House? Ms. Carlson: Correct me if I'm wrong. Unidentified Audience Member: An increase in the waiting list. Ms. McDermott An increase with the waiting list? Ms. Carlson: Yes. I think their current enrollment is 90. Is that right, Sister? Unidentified Audience Member: 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon. Ms. McDernot: Okay. So I heard, just to repeal that for the viewing audience, then that currently we have 80 in the morning and 80 in the afternoon, and we want to increase to 125 for both morning and afternoon. Ms. Carlson: Yes. 125 at a time. Ms. McDermott At a time. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Morrow: Anyone else? Just give us a moment to see if there's anyone in the audience. I dont see anyone coming forward. So if there's no further questions, I'll ask for a motion. Mr. Wilshaw: As an alumni of the Montessori School myself, I would love to say that they've done a fabulous job of leaching their students. Mr. Morrow: We'll make that determination. Mr. Wilshaw: Thank you. But I will offer an approving recommendation for this facility. April 28, 2009 25236 On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, 9 was #0431-2009 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2009-02-08-04 submitted by French Associates requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct an elementary school (Montessori Center of Our Lady) on the east side of Newburgh Road between Schoolcraft Road and Five Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 20, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet A1.01 dated February 12, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet Ll dated February 10, 2009, as revised, prepared by Nowak & Fraus Engineers, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of hydroseeding; 4. That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a healthy condition; 5. That the Exterior Building Elevation Plan marked Sheet A4.01 dated April 7, 2009, as revised, prepared by French Associates, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to; 6. That the brick used in the construction shall be full face four (4") inch brick; 7. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a compatible character, material and color to other exterior materials on the building; 8. That the Petitioner shall secure the necessary permits, including storm water management permits, wetlands permits and soil erosion and sedimentation control permits, from Wayne County, the City of Livonia, and/or the Stale of Michigan Department of Environmental Quality; Apnl 28, 2009 25237 9. That all light fixtures shall not exceed twenty (20') feel in height and shall be aimed and shielded so as to minimize stray light trespassing across property lines and glaring into adjacent roadway; 10. That the pefifioner shall correct to the Fire Department's satisfaction the stipulations contained in the correspondence dated February26, 2009; 11. That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building permits are applied for; and, 12. Pursuant to Section 19.10 of Ordinance #543, the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, this approval is valid for a period of one year only from the date of approval by City Council, and unless a building permit is obtained, this approval shall be null and void at the expiration of said period. Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving resolution. ITEM#5 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 979TM Public Hearings and Regular Meeting Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the Minutes of the 979"' Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on March 24, 2009. On a motion by Scheel, seconded by Taylor, and adopted, it was #04-32-2009 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 979" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on March 24, 2009, are hereby approved. A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following: AYES: Scheel, Taylor, McDermott, Vartoogian, Wilshaw, Morrow NAYS: None ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Smiley Apnl 28, 2009 25238 Mr. Morrow, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution adopted. On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 980" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held on April 28, 2009, was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. ATTEST: R. Lee Morrow, Chairman CITY PLANNING COMMISSION Carol A. Smiley, Secretary