HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2006-11-1423649
MINUTES OF THE 935° PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, November 14, 2006, the City Planning Commission of the City of
Livonia held its 935" Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City
Hall, 33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. John Walsh, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: William LaPine Deborah McDermott R. Lee Morrow
Carol A. Smiley Ian Wilshaw John Walsh
Members absent: H. G. Shane
Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; At Nowak, Planner IV; Ms. Debra
Walter, Clerk -Typist II; and Ms. Marge Watson, Program Supervisor; were also
present.
Chairman Walsh informed the audience that if a petition on tonighfs agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If
a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has len days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become
effective seven (7) days after the date of adoption. The Planning Commission
and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling.
The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying
resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the
outcome oflhe proceedings tonight.
ITEM#1 PETlTION2006-09-01-08 TACO BELL
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2006-09-
01-08 submitted by Peter Lyders, on behalf of Old West
Properties, LLC (a franchisee of Taco Bell Corp.), requesting to
rezone a portion of the properly at 19036 Filmore, located on
the east side of Filmore Avenue between Seven Mile Road and
Clanta Avenue in the Northeast 1/4 of Section 9 from R-3 to C-2
office building on properly located at 34010 Plymouth Road in
the Southeast % of Section 28.
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Mr. Taormina
presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning ofthe surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak:
There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering
Division, dated October 12, 2006, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. The proprietor has configures the
proposed driveway to Filmore Avenue to discourage traffic from
going through the residential neighborhood. The legal
description for the rezoning should be changed as follows." The
letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. That is
the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions for the staff before we go to the
petitioner? Seeing none, would the petitioner please step
forward?
Eric D. Rauch, Desine Inc., 2183 Pless Drive, Brighton, Michigan 48114. Also
with me tonight is Rick Eccles, Property Manager for Sundance,
Incorporated. As previously menfioned, this was a rezoning
request that the Planning Commission saw a year ago, so I'm
going to briefly refresh everybody about the request and its
intricacies. Mark, could you put up the proposed zoning
presentation? The subject parcel is located at 19055
Farmington Road. It's currently .48 acres in size and was
constructed in 1982. It no longer meets the current
specifications published by the Taco Bell Corporation. The
Corporation, as you may recall, issued an ultimatum to all their
franchisee holders nationwide, and that was that they must
demolish and reconstruct all their buildings that were built in the
80's. They call them their mission -style buildings. Prior to
franchise agreements being renewed for particular sites when
that agreement comes up for renewal. The renewal for this site
came up on September 20, 2006, two months ago almost. The
Corporation was kind enough to issue the petitioner a one-year
extension based on the fact that they recognized he is seeking
approval processes here at the City of Livonia. The subject
parcel is zoned C-2, which does permit the full service
restaurant and the existing restaurant has dine -in and carryout
service. It would be required to add a drive-thru service to meet
Corporate standards. However, when you look at the existing
property here, it's got an odd Oklahoma shape to it, and it
doesn't accommodate the addition of a drive-thru lane and the
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efficient counterclockwise traffic movements that are
associated with it. Could we go to the artist's rendering, Mark?
So to make improvements that can meet both Corporate and
city standards, the petitioner put a contingent purchase offer on
the property at 19036 Filmore Avenue. The proposed
construction would demolish the existing house and use less
than one-half of that properly for features associated with the
Taco Bell. The remaining 60 percent, as previously mentioned,
would be used as an open space area and contribute toward
buffering characteristics to the adjacent residential uses. To
help limit the effects on the adjacent uses, the property's site
design would consist of a five-foot tall screening wall on tie
western end here, the southern end, then back down west. This
wall would be five foot tall, have a red brick appearance with a
limestone cap, and would be indicafive of a lot of the imaging
that you see here at the City of Livonia. And it would effectively
prevent site lightng and vehicle headlight glare from traversing
onto adjacent properties. So this wall, five-foot tall wall,
provides a barrier from all the site lighting activities within the
Taco Bell facility. A mixture of coniferous and deciduous trees
would be planted within that 50 fool buffer, and the addition of a
10 fool buffer along the west side would again have coniferous
and deciduous trees to help dampen particularly noise pollution
which the screening wall wouldn't do. The 50 -fool space along
the south side would be irrigated, maintained and mowed on the
same weekly basis as the rest of the Taco Bell so there wouldn't
have to be any worry about it overgrowing and looking
obtrusive. Additionally, the 10 -fool strip on this west side here
apparently doesn't exist right now. The Taco Bell abuts directly
up against Filmore Avenue. So the residences across Filmore
Avenue now have a 10 -foot buffer, the addition of landscaping,
and the additon of the screening wall, which currently aren't
there. So these are all elements which currently don't exist on
this site. It's important to remember that the site currently is
adjacent to residential uses. It would continue to be adjacent to
residential uses but we proposed a 10 -foot buffer, a 50 -fool
buffer, screening walls and significant landscaping - all three
buffering elements which currently are not on site. The closest
any resident would be to the Tam Bell screening wall is
approximately 75 feet. Currently, the closest residence to the
Taco Bell screening wall is 23 feet. So there is an isolafion
increase of 52 feet between the two uses. Additonally, the
existing Taco Bell restaurant, the building itself, the closest
residence to it now is 85 feet away, and the proposed restaurant
to the closest residence, it would be 123 feel. So again you're
seeing an isolafion distance increase by 38 feel. Could you go
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to the sound level presentation? As we went through the
rezoning process last year, a lot of the residents, and rightfully
so, haw concerns about noise. So we took a look at our known
highest noise level, and that would be the speaker post at the
drive-thru mini -board. The speaker post, first off, has what they
refer to as an OCB, an order confirmation board. It prevents a
lot of the back and forth communications by actually having the
order on a TV screen in front of them. And the speaker post
comes from the manufacturer preset at 70 decibels. The
petitioner has the ability to lower that down to 60 decibels. And
we know that sound diminishes at a rale of 6 decibels every
time the distance from the sound source is doubled. So by the
time you gel to the nearest adjacent residence, the sound has
diminished down to 30 decibels. That doesn't even take into
account all the buffering characteristics between those two
points if they were just traveling through thin air. So when you
start taking into account the screening wall, the significant
landscaping, the existing stockade fences, it would easily
diminish near 10 decibels which brings everything down to
about 20 decibels until you gel to the nearest residential use.
As a comparison, off to the right there, 20 decibels is compared
to the noise that TV sound stages would like to be at. Basically,
it's the point with which the human ear actually begins to hear
sound. Its literally a pin drop. There has been developments
over the Iasi 5 or 10 five years here in the City of Livonia which
have set precedence for similar improvements such as the Taco
Bell would like to make. In 2000, the Hunt's Ace Hardware,
which is just two blocks to the west, received approval to rezone
residential property so that they could expand their parking lot.
If you look at our improvements, our improvements are for
parking and traffic circulation features within our site. So our
6,000 square foot with which we're requesting the rezoning only
has the parking and traffic circulation functions, similar to the
Hunt's Ace Hardware. Additionally, we're providing the isolation
distances, the buffering characteristics, both the screening wall
and the natural charectensfics, which Hunt's Ace Hardware
didn't. Likewise, in 1996, the Winlergarden Bar received
approval to rezone residential property so they would expand
their parking lot. That particular site is klty comer on the north
side of Seven Mile just east of Farmington, and again, doesn't
offering the buffering characteristics which are being proposed
here tonight at the Taco Bell site. It's also important to
remember that the Wintergarden Bar oftentimes on the
weekend does have very late hours of operation. So that's
certainly consistent with what you see in the area. Sundance
Incorporated, they're very experienced developers who
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understand the importance of being a responsible neighbor. In
fact, since the petitioner owned the property, they received an
average of 1.87 disturbing the peace calls per year and that's
per the city's police records obtained in 2005. I've had the
pleasure and my company has had the pleasure of working with
them for seven years, and over the Iasi four years, we've done
about 25 Taco Bells in 25 different municipalifies. In 2005, the
petitioner was granted Commercial Development of the Year
awards in Canton Township and in the City of Brighton, and just
last week the City of Dearborn awarded them the Standards in
Excellence award. This is an award that indicates businesses
that promote an outstanding year round exterior beautification
and maintenance program. I think the interesting thing about
this particular site in the City of Dearborn, which they just
received an award on, it happens to be directly adjacent to a
significant amount of residential. I'd like to pass this over.
Mr. Walsh:
Hand it down here to the end and we'll pass it along.
Mr. Rauch:
Thal site has never had a complaint. In fact, the residences, the
only buffering they have to the Taco Bell is a five-foot tall screen
wall. They dont have the 50 fool isolation. They dont have the
mixture of coniferous and deciduous trees. There's never been
an issue at the site, which is just about 15 miles south from
here. Just last week they won an award for the site. So I think
you guys can feel comfortable that these are developers who
not only talk a good game but also produce one. As previously
mentioned, the Corporation is forcing Taco Bell to make these
improvements or the site will be closed. What would be left is
an odd -shaped piece of property with that Okalahoma shape
with the building on it that's obviously an old Taco Bell. They're
seeking to make a substantial investment into a business that
has been operating at that location for over 25 years now, and if
this investment isn't allowed to be made, on September 20,
2007, they will be forced to shut their doors. Thank you, and at
this time I will open it to the Board for any questions.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you. Are there any questions?
Mr. La Pine:
Sir, it is my understanding that the proposal you're making
tonight is exactly, to the last detail, the same one you made to
us a year ago. Is this correct?
Mr. Rauch:
Yeah.
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Mr. La Pine: Now, tell me so I can understand why I should change my vote,
what has changed so that I would have a reason to change my
vote? I can see nothing has changed. Everything is the same.
The only thing that has changed is when you go to City Council,
the votes may change a little there and you would gel it passed.
As far as I'm concerned, I read all the minutes from the last
meeting. Nothing as far as I can see has changed to make me
change my vole. Something would have to be substantially
different for me to change my vole. So if you don't have
anything different that's changed, then I have no reason to
change my vote.
Mr. Rauch: We just hope that, you know, the economic condition of our
state has certainly changed in the Iasi year. This is a business
that's been in operation for 25 years, and they would like to
continue to operate there. That's why we're here tonight. We
don't want to give up. We'd like to operate at this particular site.
If not, they're forced to close the business with which they've
operated and it's loo bad.
Mr. LaPine: Well, the only thing I can say to that, I don't want you to go out
of business anyway. My biggest objection to this whole
operation from the beginning has been the drive Jhm. Now, you
mentioned Ace Hardware. I was on the Board. I voted for that.
The Wintergarden Bar where they lore down a house. I voted
for that, but they don't have any drive-thm. They dont have any
problem with the traffic. That corner at Seven Mile and
Farmington Road is a very busy comer. We're talking two
different things here - a drive-lhm and not a drive-thm. As far
as I'm concerned, if nothing has changed, I have no reason to
change my vote.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, Mr. Rauch, if you don't gel the approval to have this
rezoning completed, either by this Board or the City Council,
has Taco Bell or this particular franchisee taken a serious look
at other commercial properties in the area, and what is their
Plan B?
Mr. Rauch: Certainly, the petitioner I know has looked for several years.
This ultimatum by the Corporation isn't something that just came
about last year or anything. It's been around for about four or
five years and prior to these rezoning requests. There's been a
very aggressive look for properties in this area. Another limiting
factor is the Corporation sets these limits. I believe we have to
be within half a mile of this particular intersection. We looked at
one property very aggressively and another one kind of shaked
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out real fast that it wasn't going to work and there's certain
properties in the area where owners won't sell to us for
competition reasons.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anything else, Mr. Wilshaw?
Mr. Wilshaw:
No, thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that cashes to speak for or
against this petition? Ladies and gentlemen, if you do wish to
speak please come forward to a microphone on either side and
give us your name and address.
Roger M. Cote,
19018 Filmore. I live right next door to the properly that's
supposed to be rezoned. I'd like to take a minute to thank the
Planning Commission and the Council and everybody that
helped us through the ordeal we had. We tried real hard to, you
know, keep our neighborhood a peaceful and safe
neighborhood, and I do believe that if a drive thru is put into our
location, a lot of bad things could happen. I know they have
said the parcel, like if they can't build at that location, they'll
have to abandon the location. I submitted seven or eight
different pictures of different Taco Bell locations that became
other businesses. They weren't just left vacant. Other
businesses became other businesses after Taco Bell left. I've
seen all kinds of different places around town that they could
possibly build on. One really good location would be there right
on Middlebelt and SchoolcraR. There's a Chi Chi's restaurant
that's been vacant there for a long time, and it seems like that
would be a perfect location, wouldn't have to tear a house down.
All they would have to do is tear that business down and build
their business and maybe a lot of times they have two
franchises in one. I guess the new franchises that they have
now. But it seems they could do a lot better trying to plan on
finding a better location than to just tear up a neighborhood.
Everybody deserves to have peace and quiet and safely in their
neighborhoods. We're all taxpayers. We like to live good just
like everybody else. This is just going to be a lot of pressure on
us. This place here is open unfit 1:00 in the morning, maybe
1:30 in morning, because I hear music coming from that place
all the time. Just putting up a five fool wall, you know, you have
the party store and if you have a wall, just the noise going
through there is going to echo through the whole neighborhood.
I could hear the expressway at 275 in the summertime. Cars
driving on a -way and that's like a couple miles down the road.
You could imagine being right next door, you know, like your
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privacy and everything else. Its a bad idea for the
neighborhood. We just hope that the right thing gets done, and
thank you very much for your time. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you, Mr. Cole. Good evening.
Karen Greenwald, 19007 Filmore. I live kitty corner. Well, its directly across
from Mr. Cole and would be kitty comer from the home. I'd like
to ask the petitioner a couple questions if I may.
Mr. Walsh:
If you could direct them to us, then they'll have the opportunity
at the end to answer them.
Ms. Greenwald:
Oh, okay. I'm sorry. My question is this: This home that they
want to demolish is actually an improvement as to what was
there before. The home
prior had been almost abandoned, and
basically a builder look
it and he re -beautified it and made it
what it is and it contributed to the neighborhood. My question
is, within the Iasi five years, if Taco Bell has known that they
needed to do these modifications, why didn't they purchase the
properly at that time when the house was ... literally the ceiling
had caved in and the windows were broken. It seems to me
now we have something that contributes to our neighborhood
and we want to tear it down. Well, that to me makes absolutely
no sense.
Mr. Walsh:
Ms. Greenwald, we'll make note of that comment, and if they
care to answer the question, they'll have the opportunity at the
end of the public hearing to do so.
Ms. Greenwald:
Okay. The other thing is, I heard a couple things also about
sound, and I'd like to bring this up. According to the
Environmental Protection Agency, the neighborhood at rest is
45 decibels. Okay? So this idea that you can adjust up or down
the squawk box and its only going to be what 6 decibels or 10
decibels or whatever, really, I mean, there's no scientific
documentation that will support that and I do have that
information from the EPA. Also, boom cars come through the
neighborhood. Boom cars are cars that have been specially
designed so that they have speakers that are built right into the
vehicle. And you've probably been next to a vehicle that when
you had the windows rolled up and you can feel the boom of the
car next to you? Okay, well, while that may not be problematic
if you only have one or two, but if you have a drive-thru, we will .
. a boom car can be heard up to half a mile away, and actually
it's a physiological issue, and again, I have documentation of all
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this from the EPA. What happens is, it can actually gel into your
home. If there's a reverberation, there's a low current and
people have to put up with that, and I certainly didn't move into
this neighborhood to put up with that kind of noise. The issue
also about the Winlergarden Bar, as I understand it, that was
not really expanded into the residential neighborhood. It was
expanded along Farmington Road. It does abut against a
residential area, but there again, like you were saying, there's
traffic coming and going, but you don't have a squawk box; you
don't have the people driving through and ordering food. The
only other residential locafion that I know of that really has any
kind of commercial zoning is the Dunkin' Donuts near Seven
Mile and Middlebelt Road. As far as extending the
beautification of the neighborhood, I have absolutely no problem
with Taco Bell coming into our neighborhood, but I do have a
problem with the noise and with our residential area, which I
purchased into a residence. If I wanted to purchase into
commercial land, I would have done so. And so I think its great
that they have the beautification awards, but no buffer is going
to be substantial enough to keep that sound out of my ears and
out of my neighbors' ears. Hunt's Ace Hardware, as far as I
understand, they took the owner's home and actually look that
lot land out and then they expanded in the back so they were
not ... in effect, it really wasn t that much land either, but it was
the way that the land was developed. So I believe that while it
would be nice to have a taco in every car and a Taco Bell in
every garage, I just don't think its good for us at this site.
Thank you.
Gloria Kildani, 19031 Filmore. Good evening. I first want to say that again I'm
here for the proposal of the rezoning of Taco Bell, which was
denied last year. As Mr. LaPine had mentioned, no changes
have been made. My observation is that last time it needed to
be denied it was a minority vole, 2 to 5. Now I hear that a
majority vote is needed because it's no longer a formal petition.
I first want to say shame on Taco Bell for making the community
of Filmore Street go through this again in less than a year's
time. Both committees have stated that the rezoning did not fit
into the surrounding area and the proposal was defeated. I
have not seen any major changes to the rezoning area that
should or would allow this to succeed. We, as residents of this
area, have been through major turmoil just with the construction
that took place this summer on the street of Seven Mile and
Farmington. I personally have two children who play in the
neighborhood. This summer, my husband and I were fearful of
them playing outside in front due to the excessive traffic on the
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street. The construction continued during the beginning of the
school year. My children walked to and from the bus stop.
Early in the morning and in the afternoon, the traffic was
constant due to people cutting through the street so that they
didn't have to wait those extra few minutes on Seven Mile and
Farmington. With Taco Bell, Filmore would be another exit out
instead of having to wait to turn back onto Farmington through
the drlve-lhru. In the beginning of this construction mess, we
had several days where police officers were situated in the area
slopping cars speeding through the street. I personally had
witnessed several cars being slopped by the police for speeding
and that was in a very short period of time.
Mr. Walsh:
Ma'am, I'm going to ask you to keep your comments to the Taco
Bell issue.
Ms. Kildani:
Okay. With this proposal that does not ft into an area, the traffic
we have now and we will have will be a constant lifestyle
change for us on Filmore Street. This is not the quiet street I
had purchased my house on five years ago. Right after the first
proposal of Taco Bell was defeated, a new driveway was .. .
that has nothing to do with Taco Bell.
Mr. Walsh:
If you could just keep it to that. I appreciate what you've gone
through, but we need to keep our comments on Taco Bell
tonight.
Ms. Kildani:
Okay. I understand. I also have a concern that if Taco Bell
does succeed in passing this proposal, what guarantee do we
have that the portion being rezoned will not be brought up again
to be voted on later to be changed into commercial? Surely not
the word of Taco Bell. According to them, if the first proposal
was not to pass, they would be closing their doors because the
contract of Taco Bell headquarters said that if it was not
changed by a certain dale, they had to close. In concern with
this upkeep of the rezoning of residenfial property, who are we
to believe that this will be taken care of? Taco Bell says they
will. We dont know if they're going to or not. Please take into
consideration the value and cencems of the surrounding
neighborhood, not the community who will not have to deal with
drastic life changes, but with the residents of Filmore Street and
the colleagues who voted this proposal down less than a year
ago, if not less than five months. Again, I would like to state that
the safety of our children and the sanity of our life here on
Filmore Street is in question with the rezoning of the property
and the expansion of Taco Bell. Again, thank you.
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Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak for
or against this petition? I see no one coming forward at this
time. I'm going to close the public hearing. The petitioner has
the opportunity to speak before we proceed to a motion. It's
your choice, unless the commissioners have any questions.
Mr. Morrow: I do have a question, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Rauch: Yes, I would like to lake this opportunity to speak about a couple
things that were brought up. It is my understanding that the
improvements to the existing house at 19036 Filmore Avenue
were completed seven years ago, that of course a couple years
prior to this ultimatum by the Taco Bell Corporation. In regards
to the function of the drive thru, and noise, and boom boxes, I
have passed around an air photo of one of the existing sites in
Dearborn. I have a few others here that abut residential loo;
one in the City of Ann Arbor, Redford, the City of Adrian, all abut
residential. If you want to look at them or rot, none of them
have problems. I think the problem is more perceived that it
actually is perceived during the site plan review process and
things of that nature. What the petitioner actually finds is that
they dont gel that many complaints. One of the unique things
about a drive-thru restaurant with the speaker posts is a person
keeping their volume up on their car stereos won't be able to
order. They have to tum down their volume just to listen.
These are things, the boom boxes, which are bothersome, I
certainly recognize that. I also recognize that they are a
condition of our society and not so much a condition of our site,
and we would certainly love to do everything within our power,
and they do everything within their power, to try and keep those
elements diminished as much as possible. Also, functions on
Filmore Avenue about the increase in traffic, you guys have it
within your documentation a traffic impact study which was
completed by a third party. It conducted that there would not be
an increase of traffic on Filmore Avenue within the residential
area. In fact, you can expect a significant decrease. The
biggest reason for that is because currently the function of the
ingress and egress has four traffic movements, two way in and
two way mt. Three of those four traffic movements would be
eliminated in our proposed plan by making it egress to the right
only, forcing all traffic out of the Taco Bell property north toward
Seven Mile Road. So certainly we've listened to concerns
through the residents, through communications most of last
year, and implemented that element early on and recognized
that as being problematic and did everything within our power
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by making that right tum only, the geometry and also signage so
that issue could be lessened.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you. We do have one question for you from one of the
commissioners.
Mr. Morrow:
Yes, I dont think we covered it so far. I think it came out at the
last public hearing. What is the percentage increase of
business the drive-thru will produce?
Mr. Rauch:
About 30 percent.
Mr. Morrow:
That's what I had in my mind. The concern I have obviously is
not with your speaker system for ordering; it's the lineup that
you will have waiting to gel to the speaker. There will be a lot
more cars trying to gel through the drive-lhru. I think Taco Bell
is very successful, which means its going to have a lot of traffic
there. The neighbors are apparently have trouble coping with
what exists now, so we're going to increase that by probably
more than one-third, because now they have to gel out of their
cars and go in and then come back out. Now a lot of them will
be outside. If this zoning were granted, you would have to
come back for a waiver of use to put through a drive-lhru, would
you not?
Mr. Rauch:
That's correct.
Mr. Morrow:
So tonight the zoning, if you were just doing it without the drive-
thru, it would be a wonderful plan. But because the drive-thru is
an integral part of what we're doing here tonight, my feeling is
we might as wet nip it in the bud based on what we decided at
the last public hearing. You put together a wonderful plan. The
only problem is that it's too close to the neighborhood. Thank
you.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any additional questions? At this point then, a motion
would be in order.
On a motion by
La Pine, seconded by Morrow, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-116-2006
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-09-01-08, submitted by Peter Lyders, on behalf
of Old West Properties, L.L.C. (a franchisee of Taco Bell Corp.),
requesting to rezone a portion of the property at 19036 Filmore,
located on the east side of Filmore Avenue between Seven Mile
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Road and Clanta Avenue in the Northeast 114 of Section 9 from
R3 to G2, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend
to the City Council that Petition 2006-09-01-08 be denied for the
following reasons:
1. That this general area in the vicinity of the Farmington
Road and Seven Mile Road intersection contains sufficient
C-2 zoned lands to serve the needs of the area;
2. That the petitioner has failed to adequately demonstrate a
need in this area for additional commercial uses such as
are permitted by the C-2 district;
3. That the proposed change of zoning will extend non-
residential zoning too far into a residential area;
4. That the proposed change of zoning is incompatible to the
residential uses in the area to the south and west;
5. That the development of the subject property for
commercial use in conjunction with adjacent properties will
result in an increase in traffic and the location of the
properties relative to access from public streets,
particularly with respect to vehicular turning movements in
relation to routes of traffic flow and access to off-street
parking, will be hazardous and inconvenient and will be
detrimental to the surrounding area; and
6. That the proposed change of zoning is inconsistent with
the Future Land Use Plan designation of Low Density
Residential land use for the subject area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw: I appreciate the petitioner coming in and giving us an overview
of his request again. I think the petitioner has made a nice effort
to mention the fad that the Taco Bell is looking to improve the
site overall. He's got beautification awards. He's talking about
a brick wall that looks nice. But what's before us today is not a
site plan. It's a rezoning request. And when I look at it purely
on the merits of a rezoning request, what I see is an
encroachment of commercial zoning into a residential area
2ass2
that's not right on the surface of Seven Mile Road. The Wine
Castle is north of this property. There's reference to Hunt's Ace
Hardware encroaching slightly into the residential area for
parking expansion. But Hunt's Ace Hardware is right on Seven
Mile Road. This property is not. This property is one
commercial properly south of Seven Mile Road and what they're
looking to do is further increase that southbound movement of
the commercial property. And that's what disturbs me. I think
that they certainly have good intertions. I think that the Taco
Bell can hopefully find a location in the city where they can
develop their site and do it in this attractive manner, but I don't
think this is the place to do it.
Ms. McDermott: I just want to say that I was not here the last time around for this
but when look at this issue, I have to look at it as if it were next
to my home. And I think if the truth be told, there are not very
many residents that would like to see commercial property move
next to their home with a fast food restaurant with a drive-lhru
window. I feel that I'm here to look at the best interests of both
the city and residents, and I also agree this is not the place to
do it.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go onto City Council with a denying resolution.
ITEM#2 PETITION 200640-01-09 STARBUCKS COFFEE
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-01-09 submitted by Cambridge West Limited Partnership, on
behalf of Starbucks Coffee, requesting to rezone properly at
39209 Six Mile Road, located on the southeast corner of Six
Mile Road and Haggerty Road in the Northwest''/. of Section 18
from OS to C-2.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering
Division, dated October 18, 2006, which reads as follows:
`Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objection
to the proposal at this time. No additional right-of-way is
required. The legal description for the Starbucks parcel to be
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rezoned follows." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E.,
City Engineer. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff before we go to the
petitioner? Seeing none, is the petitioner here this evening?
Good evening.
Brady Blain, Cambridge West limited Partnership, 39209 W. Six Mile Road,
Suite 111, Livonia, Michigan 48152. Good evening.
Mr. Walsh: Is there anything you'd like to add to the presentation?
Mr. Blain: Well, to give you a general overview of why I'm here today,
Starbucks approached us several months ago to locale one of
their coffee shops at our corner. As everyone is aware, it's a
popular corner and they fell their coffee shop would do very well
there. As mentioned, Security Bank and Trust and subsequently
First of America and National City did have a three lane drive-
lhru in the exact area that Starbucks and Cambridge West is
proposing to do a 1,700-1,800 square fool drive-thm structure.
The site handled the bank drive-thm adequately, and we feel
that the traffic for this Starbucks location wouldn't be much more
than that of the bank branch that was there for 9 or 10 years
plus. No curb cuts are going to be required for this property.
There are actually three drives that service the building. One
additional one on Haggerty that is not shown there. There it is.
Therefore, turning in and out of the property should not be a
problem. You're able to tum right onto Six Mile Road either by
taking the Haggerty exit then a right on Six Mile or cutting
through the lot and taking aright directly onto Six Mile, turning
left onto Haggerty, just by turning left on either one of the two
drives. You can tum left on Six Mile by turning out of the
Haggerty Road exit and taking a left at the left hand tum signal
at Six Mile. The only question there is tatting a left onto
Haggerty, which can be difficult at times because of the backup
at the light. But again, the second driveway to Haggerty should
allow an easy left hand turn onto Haggerty. Therefore, we feel it
would be a good use to Starbucks and that's why I'm here this
evening. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mrs. Smiley: Starbucks doesn't have any drive-thru. People have a tendency
to go in there and silfor a few minutes.
Mr. Blain: I'm sorry.?
23664
Ms. Smiley:
You dont have drive-thm service, do you, from Starbucks?
Mr. Blain:
Yes, there is a drive-thru service.
Ms. Smiley:
There is?
Mr. Blain:
Its proposed to be a drive-lhru. I've been told it's a new
development on their part. And to be honest with you, we really
tried to gel them to take the old bank location right at the comer
of the building there. They did have a drive-lhru there, and they
are adamant about having a stand-alone structure in the parking
lot. But no, there is a drive-thm there, and I've planned for
about 20 to 30 seats in the building itself.
Ms. Smiley:
What percentage do you think is drive-lhru in a Starbucks?
Mr. Blain:
I couldn't answer that question.
Mr. La Pine:
When was the last banking business done there?
Mr. Blain:
National City moved out. They built their own branch down on
Haggerty between Seven and Eight Mile. They moved out just
over a year ago. I think it was September, 2005.
Mr. La Pine:
2005?
Mr. Blain:
Yes.
Mr. La Pine:
Mr. Blain is not here this evening, is he?
Mr. Blain: No, he is not.
Mr. La Pine: When we started the project for College Park, Mr. Blain was
dead against it because he said there's so much traffic in that
area. Since then, as you probably know, there is tremendously
more traffic there today than there was when the bank was
there.
Mr. Blain: Right.
Mr. La Pine: And it's probably going to get worse as time goes by, especially
when you take into consideration just south of you up Haggerty,
there's Bosch Automotive going in; there's a new shopping
center on the corner of Five Mile. A lot of that traffic has to
come south to Six Mile to get back on the expressway. So
23665
anything that happens on Haggerty Road worries me because
of the traffic problem. Mrs. Smiley asked one of the questions
I'd like to know. I'd like to know from Starbucks how much
traffic do they expect to have there? How much drive-thm traffic,
basically people driving in, getting their drink and trying to gel
back out onto either Haggerty or Six Mile Road in the morning
and in the afternoon? That's important to me. Apparently, we
don't have that information this evening. Secondly, do you
know if they're going to close the Starbucks that's in the Barnes
& Noble Bookstore across the street? Is that going to close and
everything is going to operate over here?
Mr. Blain:
As far as I know, and a Starbucks representative wasn't able to
make it tonight, they do plan on making future meetings, but I
am unaware of them closing the Starbucks in the Barnes &
Noble to answer that question. And in regard to your question
about your traffic concerns, yes, there is heavy traffic at that
intersection. I can't speak of future traffic but today there is
heavy traffic there. We're of the opinion, and Starbucks is of the
opinion, that by adding that location, it's not going to create
more traffic than what's already there. Starbucks doesn't
consider itself a destination slop. People who slop at certain
Starbud<s locations slop there because it's either to and from
work or wherever it is that they may be going. We're of the
opinion it won't necessarily create more traffic that doesn't
already exist at that intersection.
Mr. LaPine:
I intend to disagree with you, but that's my personal opinion.
Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
In one of our earlier meetings, your dad had talked about this
building as being something that if Starbucks was to move out
or be unsuccessful for whatever reason, I can't imagine a
Starbucks not being successful, but his intention was basically
to demolish it. He really didn't want this to become anything
else. It that still the case, and if so, would you be willing, since
this is a rezoning request, to consider a voluntary conditional
rezoning staling that if this is no longer Starbucks that the
zoning ofthis property would go back to office use?
Mr. Blain:
I think we would consider that, yes. He did say that, and I don't
think I would be standing here tonight before you if wasn't
Starbucks approaching us for a coffee location. If it was Java
Joe's or some other group, I dont think I would be standing here
before you today. But that is, yes, what he said. This is a 10
year lease. Starbucks is a world dass corporation that's going
23666
to run a first class operation. I don't foresee them going
anywhere anytime soon. But we could take that into
consideration. Sure. Absolutely.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay.
Mr. Walsh: Anything else?
Mr. La Pine: Can I ask just one more question? How fast do you need this?
Can we table this until we gel a representative from Starbucks
so I can get a handle on how much traffic I can expect during
different peak hours of the day, or is this something that has to
be on a fast track?
Mr. Blain: They're the one's pushing this more so than we are. Their
timeframe as of today is that they would like this structure built
before the end of their fiscal year. I believe which is like
September -October next year. So we're just trying to meet that
timefmme as of today. That's really where we're at with
negotiations. Again, we wanted to see where we would be with
this approval process and to gel a feel from you before really
anything has progressed too far.
Mr. Morrow: Mr. Blain, following up Mr. W lshaw's comments, at least as one
Planning Commissioner, I wouldn't be willing to grant C-2 at that
location.
Mr. Blain: I'm sorry.
Mr. Morrow: I wouldn't be willing to grant C-2 forever and ever on that
particular property, but like you, you were impressed with the
factthat it would be a Caribou, not Caribou but a ...
Mr. Blain: Starbucks.
Mr. Walsh: You just mined all the money they spent on advertising.
Mr. Morrow: I thought of that earlier because they'll probably siphon some
business off of Caribou Coffee. But no, you were impressed
with the petitioner or the group that wants to come in there. And
so would you be willing to commit that your company would
have to do it, that the zoning would revert to the office
classification should - what's his business again? I'm not one of
these coffee people.
Mr. Blain: Starbucks.
23667
Mr. Morrow: Starbucks. Would you be willing to commit to that?
Mr.
Blain:
I believe we would.
Mr.
Morrow:
The keyword there is believe.
Mr.
Blain:
You need a definitive answer tonight?
Mr.
Morrow:
Pardon?
Mr.
Blain:
You need a definitive answer?
Mr.
Morrow:
Well, it's more important that the definitive answer is done at the
Council level. I'd like to ask the Chairman if it would be
possible.
Mr.
Walsh:
It's a Council decision but I think the point, Mr. Blain, if I may
speak for Mr. Morrow, we have to vole tonight or table R.
Mr.
Blain:
Yes, I understand.
Mr.
Walsh:
We have at least two members thus far that have indicated
some desire for that commitment. If you want an up or down
vote tonight, then we need the commitment so we know what
we're voting on.
Mr.
Blain:
I understand.
Mr.
Walsh:
Is that a safe way to put it?
Mr.
Morrow:
And I'm not so sure that's something that Mr. Blain would want,
to revert it back.
Mr.
Blain:
I think we would be willing to revert it back to OS. Yes.
Mr.
Morrow:
The site is not that large and it would be hard to get anything
else in there, but like I said earlier, just to grant a C-2 on that
parking lot is not something I consider good planning unless we
know exactly what the use is going to be.
Mr.
Blain:
I understand.
Mr.
Morrow:
Thank you.
23668
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion
would be in order.
Mr. LaPine:
Mr. Chairman, seeing that Mr. Blain, Sr. is not here to tell us if
he would agree to what Mr. Morrow is alluding to, and I'd like to
have a representative from Starbucks here to just give me a feel
for how much additional traffic may be along that corridor. I
would make a tabling motion.
On a motion by
LaPine, d was
RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
table Petition 2006-10-01-09 submitted by Cambridge West
Limited Partnership, on behalf of Starbucks Coffee, requesting
to rezone property at 39209 Six Mile Road, located on the
southeast corner of Six Mile Road and Haggerty Road in the
Northwest % of Section 18 from OS to C-2.
Mr. Walsh:
We have a tabling motion. Is there support?
Mr. Morrow:
Mr. Chairman, did not Mr. Blain make that commitment tonight
that they would revert the zoning back?
Mr. Walsh:
I'm still hearing he thinks and believes. That's what I have thus
far.
Mr. Morrow:
I thought I heard that he was going to make that commitment
tonight for his corporation.
Mr. Walsh:
We do have the commitment. We still have a motion on the
floor to table. Is there support? Hearing none, the motion fails
for lack of support. Is there an alternative motion?
On a motion by
Morrow, seconded by Wiilshaw, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-117-2006
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-10-01-09 submitted by Cambridge West
Limited Partnership, on behalf of Starbucks Coffee, requesting
to rezone property at 39209 Six Mile Road, located on the
southeast corner of Six Mile Road and Haggerty Road in the
Northwest % of Section 18 from OS to C-2, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2006-10-01-09 be approved for the following reasons:
23669
1. That the proposed change of zoning is consistent with the
existing zoning on the property located at the northeast
corner of the Six Mile Road and Haggerty Road
intersection;
2. That the proposed change of zoning will not be detrimental
to the surrounding land uses in the area;
3. That the proposed change of zoning will allow for the
orderly and efficient development and use of the subject
property in a manner that will be complementary to the
existing developments on the adjacent properties;
4. That the proposed change of zoning will provide
opportunities for a greater variety of uses to serve the area
as well as the City as a whole; and
5. That the petitioner has voluntarily offered to enter into a
conditional rezoning agreement with the city and include in
the statement of cordifions a condifion whereby he would
agree to remove the building and allow the zoning to revert
back to the OS classification in the event Starbucks
vacates the premises.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there any discussion?
Mr. Morrow:
I would like to have the wording worked in there if we could
relating to reverting back.
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. Taormina.
Mr. Taormina:
Actually, Stale law prohibits us from imposing that as a
condition on the rezoning. I think we're relying upon the
statement this evening by Mr. Blain that they will voluntarily offer
that as a condition of the rezoning and that will be in a form of a
Conditional Rezoning Agreement presented to the Council in
connection with the final action on this rezoning this evening.
We will discuss that with our Legal Department, but I just want it
clear this evening that it's not something that this body is
imposing upon tie petitioner as a condition for the rezoning. It
is something that is being voluntarily offered.
23670
Mr. Morrow:
And that can be shown in the minutes, right, that he has agreed
to that?
Mr. Taormina:
Yes.
Mr. Morrow:
But not a part of our resolution.
Mr. Walsh:
That's correct.
Mr. Morrow:
Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
A motion and second?
Mr. Walsh:
Not yet. Do we have a second for the motion?
Mr. Wilshaw:
I'll second it.
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. Wilshaw has seconded the motion. Is there further
discussion?
Mr. LaPine:
I have another question, Mr. Blain. Do you know, Mr. Blain,
what the hours of operation would be at this location? Do you
have any idea?
Mr. Blain:
I dont know exactly the hours of operation at that location. Just
being familiar with Starbucks, I believe it's 6:00 a.m. until about
10:00 P.M.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there any further discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Like my companion, Mr. LaPine, I do have a number of
questions that I've reserved from not asking tonight because
there isn't a representative from Starbucks here. It would be
nice to have some of those answered at this point. I do think we
can go ahead and start the rezoning process because just
knowing how Starbucks does business, I think I can answer
several of them in my head. It just would be nice to have a
confirmation of some of them, but I certainly do encourage both
the voluntary zoning contract zoning to be done and I certainly
do encourage the petitioner to do whatever he can to make sure
the Starbucks representatives are here at the upcoming meeting
so we can get these questions answered. I think there are
some legitimate questions when it comes to traffic, traffic flow,
hours of operation and those types of things.
23671
Mr. Blain: Absolutely.
Mr. Wilshaw: So I do encourage that.
Mr. Blain: I'll make sure they're here next time.
Mr.Wilshaw: Thank you.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM#3 PETITION 2006-09-0222 MIDAMERICASHOWS
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
09-02-22, submitted by Mid America Shows, Inc. requesting
waiver use approval to conduct a carnival sponsored by the
Livonia Mall Merchants Association consisting of amusement
rides, games and food concessions from Thursday, May 3, 2007
through Sunday, May 13, 2007, inclusive, on properly located
on the north side of Seven Mile Road between Middlebell Road
and Purlingbrook Road in the Southeast''/. of Section 2.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated September 19, 2006, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering
Division has reviewed the above-refemnced petition. We have
no objection to the proposal at this time." The letter is signed by
Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from
the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated September 19, 2006,
which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to conduct a carnival
sponsored by the Livonia Mall Merchant's Association
consisting of amusement rides, games and food concessions
from May 3, 2007, through May 13, 2007, on property located
on the north side of Seven Mile Road between Middlebelt Road
and Puringbrook Street in the Southeast X of Section 2. We
have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by
Andrew C. Walker, Sr. Fire Inspector. The third letter is from
23672
the Division of Police, dated October 18, 2006, which reads as
follows: We have reviewed the plans in connection with a
proposal by Mid America Shows, Inc., for the carnival at Livonia
Mall carnival located at Seven Mile and Middlebett. We have no
objections or recommendations to the plans as submitted." The
letter is signed by Dariusz Nisenbaum, Lieutenant, Traffic
Bureau. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated September 20, 2006, which reads as follows: "Pursuant
to your request of September 18, 2006, the above -referenced
petition has been reviewed. This Department has no objections
to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Is the petitioner here this evening? Good evening. How are
you?
James Wegerly,
Vice President of Mid America Shows, Inc., 3041 Serenity,
Oakland, Michigan 48363. I'm very well. How are you? I am
appearing before you this evening, as you've already staled, to
once again request permission to conduct our annual carnival
sponsored by the Livonia Mall Merchants Association at Livonia
Mall. As Mr. Taormina already mentioned, the only exception to
past approvals that you've been so gracious to grant is that we
are going to be fully contained within the Livonia Mall property
itself and we won't encroach upon Sears.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine:
I was out there and tried to figure out what is Livonia Mall's
property and where you are going to be. How do you keep cars
from parking on Sears' properly and using the carnival?
Mr. Wegerly:
Well, I'm not really certain that we can do that, and I dont think
that's really an issue with Sears. I think as you're well aware,
you folks probably better than anybody, there's some discussion
I think with Livonia Mall, L.L.C. and Sears regarding some
redevelopment, and they just fell more comfortable, Livonia Mall
did, having it just on their own properly. I don't think the parking
is really an issue, and I don't think you could, in all due respect,
I'm not sure you could do that with any of the businesses if you
know what I'm saying.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. I thought there was some conflict between the two of
you.
Mr. Wegerly:
No, not in the least. No.
23673
Mr. LaPine: Okay. Fine. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh: Any other questions?
Mr. Wilshaw: Hello, Mr. Wegery.
Mr. Wegerly: Hi.
Mr. Wilshaw: Just a couple obligatory type questions that I'm sure you're used
to us asking. Security will be provided on site by the Police
Department?
Mr. Wegerly: City of Livonia police, yes.
Mr. Wilshaw: And there won't be any storage of or any on-site residential or
living quarters for your staff?
Mr. Wegerly: We do leave just a smattering there for security purposes and
they're not visible, as we have in the past. We have to have
someone there.
Mr. Wilshaw: Its all concealed?
Mr. Wegerly: Yes, and they're actually inspected on-site by the Wayne
County Health Department and License Division.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. As a result of the change in your layout this year, there
wont be any impeding of traffic that would be proceeding up the
roadway and around the mall? Its still going to be fully
accessible?
Mr. Wegerly: Yes. Absolutely.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Mr. Wegerly: Thank you.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any additional questions? Is there anybody in the
audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition?
Seeing no one coming forward, a motion is in order.
On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by LaPine, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-110-2006 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
23s7a
on Petition 2006-09-02-22, submitted by Mid America Shows,
Inc. requesting waiver use approval to conduct a carnival
sponsored by the Livonia Mall Merchants Association consisfing
of amusement rides, games and food concessions from
Thursday, May 3, 2007 through Sunday, May 13, 2007,
inclusive, on property located on the north side of Seven Mile
Road between Middlebell Road and Puringbrook Road in the
Southeast ''/ of Section 2, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2006-09-02-
22 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the carnival shall be limited to the dales as specified
by Mid America Shows, Inc., which are May 3, 2007
through May 13, 2007, inclusive;
2. That the proposed carnival operation shall be confined to
the area as illustrated on the site plan submitted with this
request;
3. That all rides, food concessions, booths and all other
equipment and apparatus relating to the operation of the
carnival shall be located at least 60 feel distant from the
Seven Mile Road right-of-way line;
4. That all trucks and other transportation equipment shall be
parked or stored within the northwesterly portion of the
Livonia Mall parking lot, but no closer than 100 feet from
the west properly line abutting the Ziegler Place site or 250
feet from the south property line abutting Hunters Brook
Condominiums;
5. That there shall be no motors running on the stored trucks
during late hours, especially between 11:00 p.m. to 7:00
a.m., including motors on any refrigeration trucks;
6. That there shall be no Irving quarters at the location of the
stored trucks;
7. That adequate access to nearest local hydrants be
provided for firefighting and that adequate access be
provided for medical units and personnel;
8. That adequate security shall be provided to insure a safe
and orderly event;
23675
9. That temporary fences/barricades shall be placed along
north, east and west perimeters to prevent
pedestrians/children from walking or running into traffic
areas; and
10. That the hours of operation of the carnival shall be as
stated in a letter dated September 12, 2006 from James K.
Wegedy, Vice President of Mid America Shows, Inc., which
have been approved by the Police Department.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use;
3. That the use of the subject properly for carnival purposes
will not interrupt the normal traffic flow and circulation in the
area and will notimpede access to the Livonia Mall; and
4. That no reporting City department objects to the proposed
use.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM#4 PETITION 200640-0223 ALOHA MARKET
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-02-23, submitted by Valia, Inc. requesting waiver use
approval to utilize an SDD liquor license at 36274 Five Mile
Road (Aloha Markel), located on the north side of Five Mile
Road between Levan Road and Golfview Drive in the Southeast
%of Section 17.
23676
Mr. Taormina
presented a map showing the property under pefifion plus the
exisfing zoning
ofthe surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak:
There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 13, 2006, which reads
as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division
has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no
objections to the proposal at this time. No additional right -0f -way
is required and the legal description as provided by the Planning
Department is correct." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated October 13, 2006, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to operate a SDD license
on property located at the above -referenced address. We have
no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew
C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection
Department, dated October 18, 2006, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request of October 11, 2006, the above -
referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted.
(1) The dumpster enclosure has no gates. This Department has
no further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by
Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent
of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions for the staff?
Mr. La Pine:
Just one question. Mark, do you have any idea how old this
building is or when it was built?
Mr. Taormina:
I can't answer that. I don't know.
Mr. LaPine:
Its really outdated. I just wondered about updating it somewhat.
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Is the petitioner here this evening?
Randal Toma,
Randal Toma & Associates, PC, 29777 Telegraph Road, Suite
2500, Southfield, Michigan 48034. I also have Mr. Abdul
standing here behind me, who is the owner of Valia, Inc., which
is the owner and operator ofAloha Markel.
Mr. Walsh:
Okay. Thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add?
23677
Mr. Toma:
Just a few quick statements. Basically, the convenience store
has been in that location for over 30 years and the current
owner and petitioner has been in business there for 6 years
operating an SDM license without any incident. Since he has
been there, he has done some improvements to the exterior and
interior of the business to try and help them improve his
business there. Currently, the owner has executed a purchase
agreement to purchase an SDD license that's in the City of
Livonia that's been in escrow that has not been in use. He has
been through the Michigan Liquor Control Commission
investigation and is now seeking the waiver use approval to
utilize the SDD license to improve his business that has been
suffering because of the economy and to also satisfy a lot of
customer requests for liquor and spirits and things of that sort.
Upon approval, the owner does plan to install brand new
shelving behind the counter space, which would house the
liquor inventory and would be out of access from the general
public. Nothing further.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine:
When I checked out this location, I went into the store. It's a
pretty cluttered store, and my question is, the area shown where
you're going to have the liquor, it doesn't look very big. How
large of an inventory of liquor are you going to have? I mean
some of the liquor stores in Livonia gel hundreds and hundreds
of different brands of liquor, and I just dont see that much room
in here behind that counter to do that.
Mr. Toma:
We tried to make it as accurate as possible. There is some
space right directly behind the counter that's there right now,
and it's going to go a little bit further. Its going to be 32 feel
wide. There is some more space that is utilized for some ... I
don't know what's over there. Just some counter, some instant
ticket display, lottery displays, things that he's going to just
rearrange and make more room for the liquor.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay.
Mr. Toma:
Probably 32 feel though.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Are you going to look to change any signage on your building as
a result of the fact that you would be selling liquor?
Mr. Abdul:
We're just going to change the sign. It used to be beer and
wine and grocery and lotto. I will lake that one down and just
23678
put Aloha Liquor. That's all it is. Or maybe change it if we get
approval for a sign, maybe chain lettering to make it nicer. But
Aloha Liquor. That's all it is. Actually the box is old anyway and
we'll request to change it and make it look better and brigher
you know. Maybe go with a color like red.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Yes, I think in line with what Mr. LaPine was saying, this site
does look a little fired. The site plan I have is dated 1963 so I'm
guessing it was probably built somewhere in that neighborhood.
Mr. Toma:
He has been kind of holding off on doing some remodeling
because it kind of depends on what he's going to do there, but
he does plan on kind of revamping the floor plan and upgrading
the shelves. It would be a new counter where the register
sits
as well. Things like that. He kind of has to know which way to
go depending on the outcome of this petition.
Mr. Wilshaw:
A question through the Chair to Mr. Taormina. If this sign was
to change as a result of what the owner is referring to, does he
have to come in front of us for those changes, or if its in the
same footprint as the old sign, is that okay or how does that
work?
Mr. Taormina:
That can all be handled administratively.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. As long as he doesn't increase the size of the sign.
Mr. Taormina:
Correct.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. That's it for me.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, I will
close the public hearing. A motion would be in order.
On a motion by Morrow, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#11-119-2006
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-10-02-23 submitted by Valia, Inc. requesting
waiver use approval to utilize an SDD liquor license at 36274
Five Mile Road (Aloha Market), located on the north side of Five
Mile Road between Levan Road and Golfview Drive in the
Southeast % of Section 17, the Planning Commission does
23s79
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2006-10-02-
23 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That all liquor products allowed to be sold in connection
with the use of an SDD license at this location shall be
displayed behind a counter with no direct public access in
accordance with the Floor Plan submitted by Valia, Inc., as
received by the Planning Commission on October 10,
2006;
2. That metal gales shall be installed on the existing
dumpster enclosure located in the northwesterly portion of
the subject property;
3. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be submitted for review
and approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council;
4. That the use of LED lighthands or exposed neon, such as
to outline windows or building features, shall not be
permitted on the site; and
5. That the specific plan referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time of application for the building permits and/or
zoning compliance permits.
Subjecttothe preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use;
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
23680
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM#5 PETITION 200640-0224 MT. HOPE CEMETERY
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-02-24 submitted by Mikocem L.L.C. requesting waiver use
approval to construct a mausoleum at 17840 Middlebelt Road
(Mt. Hope Cemetery) located on the east side of Middlebelt
Road between Six Mile Road and Pickford Avenue in the
Southwest'''/ of Section 12.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 16, 2006, which reads
as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division
has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no
objection to the proposal at this time. No additional right-of-way
is required, and the legal description is correct" The letter is
signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second
letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated October
17, 2006, which reads as follows: `This office has reviewed the
site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct a
new mausoleum on property located on the east side of
Middlebelt Road between Six Mile Road and Pickford Avenue in
the Southwest X of Section 12. We have no objections to this
proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire
Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated October 18, 2006, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to
your request of October 13, 2006, the above -referenced petition
has been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The Chapel
must be posted with a codeoomplian 'maximum occupancy of
50' sign due to the single exit. This Department has no further
objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop,
Assistant Director of Inspection. The next letter is from Bleznak
Real Estate Group, dated November 7, 2006, which reads as
follows: "1 represent the property immediately north of the
cemetery, commonly known as Woodridge Apartments. On
behalf of the ownership, 1 have two concerns regarding the
proposed mausoleum. First, a height limitation not exceeding
2asmt
30 feet, and second, a minimum setback from our property line
of 300 feet. 1 would appreciate you presenting my concerns at
the public hearing. 1 can be reached at (248) 489-1111 if you
would like to discuss further." The letter is signed by Mitchell
Bleznak, President. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions for the staff?
Mr. Wilshaw:
As I understand it, the building is 16 feel in height. Is it more
than 300 feel from the property line of this apartment complex?
Mr. Taormina:
It is substantially more. In fad, Mr. Nowak measured its
distance to be 1,240 feel from the adjacent property line to the
north.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Very good. Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
I just want to ask Mr. Taormina one question. Mark, do we have
anyjurisdiction overlhe roads inside the cemetery?
Mr. Taormina:
Not that I'm aware of.
Mr. Walsh:
Is the petitioner here this evening? If you could please come
forward. Good evening.
Steve Garske,
Mikocem, L.L.C., 31300 Southfield Road, Bevedy Hills, Michigan
48025. Good evening. I work for Mikocem, L.L.C., the owner of
the cemetery. I don't have much to say. The building, as it was
said, is very similar to the one approved by the Planning
Commission a few years ago. Its slightly smaller, and most of
the crypts will be used to fulfill preconstrudion obligations that
were purchased by the families in the surrounding community
that were sold by a previous company that actually came
before. Other than that, that's all I have.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Thank you,
sir, for coming in tonight.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? If you could please step forward to one of
the microphones. Good evening.
Mohamed Farag, 17553 Middlebell. Good evening. My name is Dr. Mohamed
Farrag. I'm a psychologist. I reside just in front of the cemetery.
I have serious concerns here because I think the project, in
addition to some other things, can affect the property around the
23682
area in a very negative and serious way. First of all, it's not I
think a pleasant scene to see everyday funerals, digging graves
and mourners every morning and all the time. So, I'm a
psychologist and I see how much it affects the homes. We have
homes just in front of the place, and I think it's not good.
Especially the owner did not build a green fence, tall trees, to
provide privacy to the cemetery and also to protect the property
around it and protect the fields of the residents around the area.
So I have serious concerns here, and I think this project will just
increase traffic around the area and will lead to more negative
impact. Thankyou.
Mr.
LaPine:
I'm kind of confused. Where do you live in relation to this? Say
you're on Middlebelt Road. Do you live across Middlebell
Road?
Dr.
Farmg:
Yes, across Middlebell Road, across from the cemetery.
Mr.
LaPine:
Okay. Across from the cemetery. How long have you been
there?
Dr.
Farmg:
More than eight years now.
Mr.
LaPine:
The problem you have, the cemetery was there before you
moved in. Its been there forever.
Dr.
Farmg:
But there is a continuous increase in the area. Always there's
expansion. So we see now maybe four or five times what we
used to see before.
Mr.
LaPine:
We're getting older.
Dr.
Farmg:
What?
Mr.
LaPine:
We're getting older.
Dr.
Farmg:
Unfortunately.
Mr.
Walsh:
Thank you, sir. Good evening.
Anthony Jones, 17551 Middlebell. Good evening. I live right next door to the
doctor there, and I can understand where he's coming from. I
can live with the idea that's a cemetery, but when you're
watching a structure go up, it's not loo pleasant to look at. Right
now, its beautiful. I love looking across there, the landscaping.
They keep the landscape beautiful and everything. But
23683
watching the structure go up, I think it's going to hurl our
neighborhood, the location where it is.
Mr. La Pine:
But there's two structures there right now that are mausoleums
on that properly. Have you ever noticed those?
Mr. Jones:
Yes, I noticed them but they're so small you really can look over
them.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you, sir. Is there anybody else in the audience that
wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one
coming forward, I'm going to close the public hearing. A motion
is in order.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I will go ahead and make an approving resolution.
Unfortunately, as we already discussed, that particular line of
business is one that is increasing, and I can understand their
need for additional space within their properly.
On a motion by
Wilshaw, seconded by LaPine, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-120-2006
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-10-02-24 submitted by Mikocem, L.L.C.
requesting waiver use approval to construct a mausoleum at
17840 Middlebell Road (Ml. Hope Cemetery) located on the
east side of Middlebell Road between Six Mile Road and
Pickford Avenue in the Southwest % of Section 12, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2006-10-02-24 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the location of the mausoleum shall be in accordance
with the Land Title Survey Plan prepared by Mannik &
Smith, Inc., as received by the Planning Commission on
October 12, 2006;
2. That the Landscape Plan submitted by Mikocem L.L.C.
dated October 9, 2006, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of
hydroseeding;
4. That the landscaping shown on the above -referenced
Landscape Plan shall be installed to the satisfaction of the
23684
Inspection Department and thereafter shall be properly and
permanently maintained;
5. That the Building Elevations Plan submitted by Mikocem
L.L.C. dated October 9, 2006, is hereby approved and shall
be adhered to;
6. That all rooftop mounted mechanical equipment shall be
concealed from public view on all sides by screening that
shall be of a compatible character, material and color to
other exterior materials on the building;
7. That the chapel shall be posted with a "code compliance
maximum occupancy of 50" sign due to the single exit, as
stipulated in the correspondence dated October 18, 2006
from the Inspection Department; and
8. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Taormina: Something that was not brought out during the discussion on
this item and for the benefit of the residents with concerns, this
structure will be set back roughly 430 feet from Middlebell Road.
Now there are some other structures on the property as was
indicated, the pole barn and the offices; those are about 100
feet away from the right-of-way of Middlebelt Road. So if they
23685
could visualize this structure being almost three times further
away, the equivalent of almost one and half football fields, there
is a substantial setbackfrom Middlebelt Road forthis structure.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM#6 PETITION 2006-10-02-25 MASON -STARK
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-02-25, submitted by Mason -Stark Properties, L.L.C.
requesting waiver use approval for the outdoor storage of
recreational vehicles and commercial vehicles at 12752 Stark
Road, located on the east side of Stark Road between the CSX
Railroad right -0f -way and SchoolcraR Road in the Northeast'/.
of Section 28.
Mr. Taormina presented a nep showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 13, 2006, which as
follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objection
to the proposal at this time. No additional right-of-way is
required, and the legal description as provided by the Planning
Department is comect" The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated October 17, 2006, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval
for RV storage on property located on the east side of Stark
Road between railroad right-of-way and Schoolcraft Road in the
Northeast X of Section 28. The idea of a RV storage area is
acceptable to the Fire Department with the following
stipulations: (1) The developer shall provide a layout plan for
the location of fences and lease spaces for review. (2) Access
shall be maintained year round. (3) Hydrant spacing shall be
consistent with City of Livonia Ordinances. (4) Fire lanes shall
be not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width, able to withstand
live loads of fire apparatus, and have a minimum of 13 feet 6
inches of vertical clearance. (5) An approved turnaround for fire
23686
apparatus shall be provided where access is dead -ended and is
in excess of 150 feet in length. The turnaround shall have a
minimum turning radius of 53 feet wall-to-wall and an inside
turning radius of 29 feet 6 inches. The authority having
jurisdiction shall approve the grade, surface, and location of the
fire lane. (6) T or Y turnaround arrangements shall be
permitted. (7) Fire lanes shall be marked with freestanding
signs that have the words 'Fire Lane — No Parking' painted in
contrasting colors (on both sides) at a size and spacing
approved by the authority having jurisdiction." The letter is
signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is
from the Inspection Department, dated October 24, 2006, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 13,
2006, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) There appears to be no approval for
currently existing RV storage at east end of property. (2) There
is an unenclosed dumpster stationed in the drive area. (3)
Maximum fence height in this district is limited to 8 feet. (4)
Customer and employee parking and driveways are not marked
property. (5) This site improperly drains roof water into the
adjacent south property. This issue was previously brought to
their attention and remains unresolved. (6) We request that all
principals in this site be property fully identified including copies
of identification acceptable to this Department" The letter is
signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is
the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions for the staff? Seeing none, gentlemen,
if you could step forward.
Gary Lockwood, Mason -Stark Properties, L.L.C., 12752 Stark Road, Livonia, MI
48150. I'm the owner of the building that v 're speaking of.
I've had discussions with Mr. Nowak as well as the other
gentlemen, Alex. We'll comply to any changes that are required
by the city. We will work in compliance with the City's desire to
make these changes. It's an easy on and off ramp to the
accessibility of our property. It is paved. It meets predominantly
all the requirements at present for this type of variance, and we
will work and comply with the City for any changes that need to
be made at this time.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine: Unfortunately, Mr. Morrow and I were out there last Saturday
and we couldn't gel into your property because of the
23687
construction on Stark Road. Big trucks were dumping slag and
so forth.
Mr. Lockwood:
That isn't due to my situation.
Mr. LaPine:
I never had an opportunity to go behind the property to look at it.
I assume from what I read hear 0 looks all right. I notice there
was a sign on the property that its for sale or lease.
Mr. Lockwood:
We are right now, and I've put under contract a brokerage firm.
We're not utilizing all the building. We have 18,000 square feel
right now. Al one time, I employed 60 employees. I now work
offshore with contractual arrangements offshore to manufacture
my product. So I've cul my staff from 60 dental technicians to
approximately about 22. It's dedining from that number. We
manufacture dental prosthetics at that location but have
licensed and contracted work offshore with China as well as the
European contine nl to manufacture our product at this time. So
there is no need for that type of parking in the back of the
building, which is over the requirement on the paving. When I
acquired the building approximately 14 or 15 years ago, we
paved all the way back to the property, which we did not need
that amount of parking. And I've allowed employees and some
of my friends to utilize the back area without a permit to park
their RVs, their boats al this time.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Mr. Lockwood, there's some issue regarding drainage of water
from your building onto the adjacent property. Is that going to
be resolved?
Mr. Lockwood:
It will be resolved. I have no problem on a contingency basis to
approve this. I have talked to the people regarding this at the
city level. Ithink if you could speak to them, I can make those
changes without difficulty whatsoever.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion
is in order.
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by McDermott, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#11-121-2006
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
23688
on Petition 2006-10-02-25 submitted by Mason -Stark
Properties, L.L.C. requesting waiver use approval for the
outdoor storage of recreational vehicles and commercial
vehicles at 12752 Stark Road, located on the east side of Stark
Road between the CSX Railroad right-of-way and Schoolcraft
Road in the Northeast % of Section 28, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2006-10-02-25 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the Site Plan submitted by Mason -Stark Properties
L.L.C., as received by the Planning Commission on
October 19, 2006, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
2. That the outdoor storage of recreational vehicles and
commercial vehicles shall be limited to the rear yard
storage area as identified and designated on the above -
referenced Site Plan and shall be maintained in an orderly
manner;
3. That there shall be no outdoor storage of dismantled,
damaged or inoperable vehicles, and no outdoor storage of
vehicle parts, scrap material and debris in connection with
this use;
4. That adequate and properly directed lighting facilities, not
exceeding 20 feet in height, shall be provided for the
illumination of the storage area;
5. Thal the following issues as outlined in the correspondence
dated October 24, 2006, from the Inspection Department
shall be resolved to that department's satisfaction:
That a dumpster enclosure shall be provided in the
"dumpsler area" as shown on the Site Plan which shall
be constructed of brick, block or reinforced poured
concrete walls and with metal enclosure gales which
shall be properly maintained and, when not in use,
closed at all times;
That the entire area utilized for recreational and
commercial vehicle storage shall be enclosed by a
fence of a type approved by the Inspection Department,
not exceeding 8 feel in height unless a variance is
granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals for excessive
23689
fence height, with only such openings as may be
necessary for ingress and egress;
That customer and employee parking and driveways
shall be propedy marked and all parking spaces shall
be double striped, including the provision of barrier free
parking with proper signage, marking and configuration,
and all regular spaces shall be 10' x 20' in size as
required;
That there shall be rectification of the existing problem
that the site improperly drains roof water into the
adjacent south property;
That all principals in this site be properly fully identified
including copies of identification acceptable to the
Inspection Department.
6. That the issues as outlined in the correspondence dated
October 17, 2006, from the Livonia Fire and Rescue
Division relating to the layout plan for the location of fences
and lease spaces, maintaining year round access, hydrant
spacing, provision and signing of fire lanes, and an
approved turnaround for fire apparatus, shall be resolved
tothe satisfaction ofthe Fire Marshal; and
7. That the plan referenced in this approving resolution shall
be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the
building permits and/or zoning compliance permits are
applied for.
Subjectto the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the
special and general waiver use standards and
requirements as set forth in Section 16.11 and 19.06 of the
Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject property has the capacity to accommodate
the proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
23690
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #7 PETITION 200640-02-26 STUCCHI'S ICE CREAM
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-02-26, submitted by Eicherl, L.L.C. requesting waiver use
approval to operate a limited service restaurant (Slucchi's Ice
Cream) at 33316 Plymouth Road in the Fountain Park
Development, on property located on the north side of Plymouth
Road between Farmington Road and Mayfield Avenue in the
Southwest % of Section 27.
Mr. Walsh: I'm going to turn the floor over to Mr. Taormina and ask the Vice
Chair to cover me for a minute.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. LaPine: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 16, 2006, which reads
as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division
has reviewed the above-refemnced petition. We have no
objections to the proposal at this time. No additional right-of-
way is required. The legal description as shown is for the
overall 1.60acre site and contains some typographic emors.
The legal description to be used for the waiver use follows."
The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer.
The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division,
dated October 17, 2006, which reads as follows: 'This office
has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a
request to operate an ice cream parlor on property located on
the north side of Plymouth Road (Fountain Park) between
Farmington Road and Mayfield Avenue in the Southwest X of
Section 27. We have no objections to this omposal." The letter
is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The last letter is
from the Inspection Department, dated October 19, 2006, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 13,
2assi
2006, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) This site may have only one restroom with
a total occupant load of 15 or fewer, including customers
(seated and standing) and employees. This site may exceed
that maximum. (2) The service areas must be barrier free from
the customer side. (3) Should the project move forward, at this
Departments plan review other items may be addressed, as
needed, conceming ventilation, noise and odor abatement,
plumbing, etc. This Department has no further objections to this
petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director
of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. LaPine:
Are there any questions for the staff? Is the petitioner here this
evening?
Kristen Eichert,
Eichert, L.L.C., 15175 Gary Lane, Livonia, Michigan 48154. I'm
here with my husband, Brian Eichert, who is the Vice President
of Eichert, L.L.C. We are hoping to be approved to open
a
Stucchi's Ice Cream Shop at 33316 Plymouth Road
in the
Fountain Park Development, and we're here to answer any
questions you might have for us.
Mr. LaPine:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Ms. Eichert, I was looking at your site plan and you have
mention of a coffee machine and microwave and a soup
wanner, that type of thing. What are you going to be serving in
this restaurant?
Ms. Eichert:
Our main item, of course, would be ice cream and everything
that goes along with it, shakes, malts, things like that. It will be
open 12 months out of the year, so to help us survive during the
winter, go also with soups. And then we're also going to do a
Chicago -style hot dog, which I think will do really well.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Are you going to have any sandwiches or anything along those
lines?
Ms. Eichert:
No. There's a Jimmy John's already in the plaza, so we're
unable to do anything like that.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Ms. Smiley:
Have you been in this business before?
23692
Ms. Eichert:
I've actually worked in an ice cream shop for the past five years,
run it, a shop in Northville. So I've been working there for five
years. I dont own that shop but I have been working there and
doing everything for that shop besides all the money part of it. I
have five years experience.
Ms. Smiley:
Thank you very much, and I apologize for wrecking the name of
the ice cream store.
Ms. Eichert:
That's okay.
Mr. LaPine:
What are your hours of operation?
Ms. Eichert:
Right now, we're planning to go from 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. or
10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Hopefully in the summer go from
10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Maybe in the winter cut back a little bit
just because of trying to get people in there.
Mr. LaPine:
Let me pass the gavel back to the Chairman so I can ask some
more questions. Something came up from the Inspection
Department and maybe Mark and you can answer it about the
restrooms. How do we determine if its going to be a single
restroom or a double restroom?
Mr. Taormina:
That will be determined at the time of plan review by the
Inspection Department.
Mr. LaPine:
During the summertime, there's going to be people lined up
waiting for ice cream, and I just don't know if they're going to
have bathroom facilities or not. There was one other thing I
wanted to ask. Are you going to run the operation?
Ms. Eichert:
Yes.
Mr. LaPine:
How many employees do you think yoUll have?
Ms. Eichert:
We believe around 7 to 9, but hopefully we'll need more than
that. From what we've heard from the corporation that we're
working with, they usually have no more than 2 or 3 people
working atone time.
Mr. LaPine:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one coming forward, a motion
is in order.
23693
On a motion by McDermott, seconded by LaPine, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#11-122-2006 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-10-02-26 submitted by Eicherl, L.L.C.
requesting waiver use approval to operate a limited service
restaurant (Slucchi's Ice Cream) at 33316 Plymouth Road in the
Fountain Park Development, on properly located on the north
side of Plymouth Road between Farmington Road and Mayfield
Avenue in the Southwest % of Section 27, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2006-10-02-26 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the customer seating provided in connection with the
subject use shall be in accordance with the Floor Plan
marked Sheet Al prepared by the Foresta Group, P.C.,
Architects, dated October 9, 2006;
2. That the maximum number of customer seats shall not
exceed 12, including 10 seats inside the building and 2
ouldoorseats;
3. That a trash receptacle shall be provided for the outdoor
dining area and shall be emptied regularly as needed;
4. Thatthe following issues as outlined in the correspondence
dated October 19, 2006, from the Inspection Department
shall be rectified to that department's satisfaction:
- That this site shall not exceed the maximum total
occupant load of 15, including customers and
employees, fora facility with only one restroom;
- That the service areas shall be barrier free from the
customer side;
- That the petitioner shall comply with all requirements as
determined in connection with the Inspection
Department's plan review of other items such as
ventilation, noise and odor abatement, plumbing, etc.;
5. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be submitted for review
2W94
and approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council;
6. That wall signage shall not be illuminated beyond one (1)
hour after this business closes;
7. That no LED lightband or exposed neon shall be permitted
on the site including, but not limited to, the building or
around the windows; and
8. That the specific plan referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subjectto the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the rapacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Taormina: If I may just encourage the petitioners to contact the Building
Inspection Department as soon as possible to determine
whether or not they'll need additional restroom facilities based
on that occupant load. I think it's something they probably
should not wail to do.
Mr. Walsh: The petitioners are nodding in the audience.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
23695
ITEM#8 PETITION 200640-0227 HAROLD ZEIGLER
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
10-02-27 submitted by Harold Zeigler Auto Group, on behalf of
J. D. Bynder, Inc., requesting waiver use approval to operate an
auto dealership at 35841 Plymouth Road, on properly located
on the south side of Plymouth Road between Levan Road and
Yale Avenue in the Northeast % of Section 32.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning oflhe surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 18, 2006, which reads
as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division
has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no
objections to the proposal at this time except as noted below.
No additional right of -way is required. The legal description as
shown is correct. There are no existing city storm sewers in this
area. Use of the storm sewers in Plymouth Road will require
permitting from the Michigan Department of Transportation and
Wayne County in accordance with their storm water
management ordinance. The closure of the one driveway will
also require a Department of Transportation permit." The letter
is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second
letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated October
18, 2006, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the
site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate an
auto dealership on property located on the south side of
Plymouth Road between Levan Road and Yale Avenue in the
Northeast/. of Section 32. We have no objections to this
proposal." The letter is signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire
Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated October 24, 2006, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to
your request of October 16, 2006, the above -referenced petition
has been reviewed. The following is noted: (1) This drawing
needs to be reconfigured. No parking of any type is allowed
within 20 feet of the front lot line. (2) There are three wall signs
proposed for this site. Only one of 100 square feet is allowed
without obtaining a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
The monument sign has not been reviewed due to lack of detail.
(3) Although we will address it at this Department's plan review,
should this project move forward, we would like to give advance
23696
notice that a non -allowed dead end corridor has been created
near mom 107. If the building has a fire suppression system, it
would be allowable. (4) It appears that a section of the
protective screening wall is missing by Lot 1 of Kentwood Park
subdivision. Either the wall must be completed or a permanent
greenbe# approved by separate resolution or a properly
executed, approved property separation agreement be filed.
This Department has no further objections to this petition." The
letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection.
The next letter is from the Plymouth Road Development
Authority, dated October 25, 2006, which reads as follows: At
the 183'" Regular Meeting of the Plymouth Road Development
Authority of the City of Livonia held on October 19, 2006, the
following resolution was unanimously adopted. #2006-22
Resolved, that the Plymouth Road Development Authority does
hereby support in concept the proposed plans as submitted by
Harold Zeigler Auto Group, on behalf of J. D. Byrider, Inc.,
requesting waiver use approval to operate an auto dealership at
35841 Plymouth Road, on property located on the south side of
Plymouth Road between Levan Road and Yale Avenue in the
Southwest X of Section 17 (Petition 2006-10-02-27), subject to
compliance with all City codes and ordinances, as such may be
modified by the action of the Planning Commission and/or City
Council, including exterior building materials and vinyl fencing."
The letter is signed by John J. Nagy, Executive Director. That is
the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Taormina: Mr. Chairman?
dilAv'F-lB�[F
Mr. Taormina: If I can just point out relative to the last sentence in the PRDA's
recommending letter what they're referring to regarding the vinyl
fencing. The site plan does show the enclosure of the storage
area to the rear of the building. The plan as submitted shows a
six -fool high wood privacy fence, and what the PRDA is
suggesting is that the wood fence be replaced with a vinyl
fence. There's a gate that would be available here on the east
end of the building, another opening here on the west end of the
building, but this gate essentially wraps in this area around the
west and east sides of the rear portion of the site.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
23697
Ms. Smiley:
Mr. Chairman, the 61 vehicle display spaces are 9' x 20'. Is that
because they're for vehicle display that they're not the typical
10'x 20'?
Mr. Taormina:
That is cored, and we typically allow the smaller sizes because
they're not customer spaces.
Ms. Smiley:
Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any other questions for the staff? Is the petitioner
here this evening? Good evening.
Daniel J. Scheid,
Harold Zeigler Auto Group, 4201 Stadium Drive, Kalamazoo,
Michigan 49008. Good evening. Thanks to the Planning
Commission for allowing us to present our plan here. I'm the
Chief Financial Officer, and with me is our President, Aaron
Zeigler. I just want to take just a moment to tell you who the
Zeigler Auto Group is. It's probably not as known on the east
side of stale. We own and operate nine dealerships located on
the west side of stale. Of those nine dealerships, seven of them
are new car operations - Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Chrysler,
Dodge, Jeep, BMW, Mitsubishi and Suzuki. Two of those
operations are J.D. Byrider's. One is located in Lansing,
Michigan, and one is located in Kalamazoo, Michigan. J.D.
Byrider is actually a national used card franchise. It is also a
financial operation. There's about 120 J.D. Byrider franchises
located around the country. It was founded about 20 - 25 years
ago by Jim Duvos. That's the J.D. in J.D. Byrider. Jim had an
idea 25 years ago, coming from the new car franchise
operation, where he observed that a lot of his clients coming
through the door couldn't get financed. Typically in the new car
operation, people come into the operation and want to buy a
new car, but the dealership doesn't provide the financing. They
go to banks, and believe it or not, about 50% of the people that
come into a typical new car dealership are turned down
because banks will not finance them based on credit and other
things like that. So Jim observed this and said there's a huge
opportunity to serve these types of people that can't get the
financing. There actually is a market out there that does this. A
lot of small what they call B lots that are traditionally seen as low
capitalization, dingy buildings, don't treat the customer right.
Jim said there s a huge opportunity
to create a business model
so that people coming
into his operation are treated right,
they're sold and delivered a fine quality vehicle that's going to
run, and it's going to be backed by the operation. And so he
began this business 25 years ago and built it up to 120
23698
franchises around the country and has had a lot of success with
that. J.D. Byrider owns and operates 12 franchises themselves,
and then they have franchisees, such as ourself, that own and
operate the J.D. Byriders. The requirement for being a J.D.
Bynder operator is (a) you have to have the capital so that you
can build the business and do it right But (b), you have to have
the philosophies that are very consistent with our philosophies.
You have to build beautiful buildings. You have to maintain your
properties. You have to treat your employees right and you
have to treat your customers right. And those philosophies
really sync up with our philosophies. I wanted to give you that
background so you understand what the J.D. Bynder business
is. It is as much a financing operation as it is a car sales
operation. Important in that distinction is, typically on a new car
lot, the goal of the new car lot is to sell as many cars as they
can, gel as many customers in and sell as many as they can.
As I go up and down Plymouth Road, you haw some big
dealerships where their goal is to sell 500, 600, 700, 800 cars or
more a month. Our goal is not nearly to do that. Our goal is to
bring in customers, sit down, really be their financial planner
first, work through a budget and ultimately fina nce them, selling
approximately 100 cars a month. We're going to develop a
relationship with these customers over three years, so it's
important to us that our customer are successful. And because
of that, we need to put good quality, fine vehicles on the road.
Part of that model is just like you saw some of the pictures there
of the building. With that in mind, we've had the opportunity now
to spend a couple of meetings with some of the members from
the Planning Commission, the City Council, and then obviously
the first step in the process was meeting with the Plymouth
Road Development Authority. And a number of questions came
up in those meetings, a number of observations. In building our
buildings, there is actually a prototype that J.D. Bynder requires,
and that prototype, which is the prototype we built in Lansing
and also Kalamazoo, it's typically a block building in the front.
It's split face block and then a metal building in the back. This is
primarily done so the economics of the building can support the
business. One thing that came to light for us is that Plymouth
Road has got clear objectives on what they're trying to do along
the corridor there. Part of it is the front look, but then part is
obviously how you're affecting the neighbors in the rear. And so
we have made a change in our business, you know, the
development of the building, gone away from the prototype and
gone with what was described as the Quik Brik, which is a
structural brick. It can be a structural brick that supports the
building, and we went away from the metal building in the back
2WN
and went with a full block. Another reason we did that is, and
something we've learned to do in projects around the west side
of the state is, it's about being a good neighbor as well. We do
understand and recognize that there are some neighbors that
reside immediately to the south of the operation, and noise
became a question. We didn't believe it would be an issue
based on our current operations, but having understood that's
an issue, we've gone to the full block building in order to
eliminate that concern over noise. Another concern was
lighting, and as Mark noted in the early comments there, the
lighting in the rear of the building is primarily over our vehicles
that are being prepared to come out of the lot for sale. We do
need to have lighting back there obviously so that in the evening
when our employees leave they've got safety. However,
recognizing that we have neighbors directly to the south of us,
we have said we can lower the light on that to 16 foot and we
will also lower the lighting levels to 400 watts up until the time
we close. After we dose, we can lower that wattage below that.
On the front of the lot, that's where it's important and that we
have higher lighting, and we will handle that accordingly putting
the lighting on the front of the lot so that it shows our inventory
in the evening. Some other things that are important to
understand about our business is, a lot of people associate car
lots with speakers and loud noises and those types of things.
Not only we will commit but we've changed our plan to say we
will not install any speakers. There's no noise going outside the
building. Another distinction there is when a customer comes
onto our lot, they're not first coming on to buy a car. They're
first coming on, in our eyes, to sit down with us and work
through a financial plan. Because of that, unlike a traditional car
lot where you have the speakers and the noise and the
customers running around the lot, our goal is to have them
come on into our building and come into our office space and sit
down and start that process. So no speakers outside the
building. Another important thing on this particular lot is that
buffer on the south side. What we committed to leaving is a tree
line buffer between our back lot and the fence that Mark
described on the south side of the building. Once again, it is a
buffer between our property and the neighbors. Another point
that was brought up in the inspection report was the protective
screening wall and the fact that there's a piece of that wall
missing between directly to the south of us and the lot that
would be to the east of us. What we've committed is to not
develop that little corner piece there, so that any trees and
shrubs and anything that's back in that comer will remain from
our development standpoint. Some other key points I want to
23]00
bring up. We'll not install any exposed neon on the building. A
lot of times you see on car dealerships and things like that
theyve got these big bright lights, big exposed neon. That's
another thing that's just not needed on our facility, and it's
something that we've gone away from the typical prototype.
The key here, this business, while you think of it as a car
dealership, is something much different than your traditional car
dealership, and its a business that we believe is serving a need
not only in Livonia but also on the east side of the stale. That's
why when we looked at this property that I believe has been
somewhat dilapidated there on Plymouth Road. It's got the old
property that we saw a key opportunity for us to come in and
develop it. I just want to close also with another point that was
brought up in a previous meeting and that is, as you go up and
down the corridor and you see a number of dealerships, some
of which have closed or some of which have been put up for
sale, because our building is not a traditional dealership, we
don't have a showroom. The front office, as Mark described,
about 3,500 square feel, is strictly offices. When you come into
the building, it's not a showroom where you show cars. It's an
office space where you come and sit with clients and you begin
to work through that. And that's just an important distinction on
how this business is operated.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine: Along the Plymouth Road corridor, we have a number of
dealerships and they all have used car lots. What's different
from buying a used car from you? Now, I understand that you
finance. Most car dealerships finance through Ford Motor
Credit or General Motors. Are the interest rates you're going to
charge your clients going to be in the same ratio as they would
gel from a bank or a credit union or from a factory -financed
company, or do you have a higher rate because you have
people that possibly aren't making their payments each month?
Mr. Scheid: That's a very good question. I heard really two questions, one
being what distinguishes us between the other dealerships,
specifically, the other used car dealerships on the corridor, and
then talk about our business model, our interest rales. First, lel
me answer the first part of that question. You are correct.
There are a number of dealerships up and down the corridor.
None of which, to my knowledge, do the financing themselves.
An important part of our business is, because we're financing
this vehide, and the average loan is about a three-year loan,
what's important to us is obviously we put a quality vehicle on
23]01
the road because I'm bearing all the risks. And because of that,
and this was part of Jim Devos' business model, we're going to
put a full warranty on that vehicle. So when a customer drives
off the lot, we're taking the risk. So if that car breaks down, it's
in our best interests to repair the car rather than have the car go
bad, in which case, typically, a customer is going to stop paying
for it. So that really sets us apart from the typical model where
a dealership is selling a used car, the bank is financing, and so
the dealership has now given up all their risk in the transaction.
They can pretty much wash their hands of the deal. In our case,
it's important to us that our customers are successful, because if
our customers aren't successful, we're not going to be
successful. And to answer your question about the interest rate,
if you come to a typical dealership, you're going to have a whole
army of what I'll call credit worthiness. You're going to have
some customers that have very high credit scores, have a very
sound financial picture and they're going to gel low interest
rales at a typical dealership. You're also going to get some
customers that come to those dealerships and have less than
perfect credit. They have questionable credit, I'll call 1. And
some of those dealerships will find banks. In our new car
stores, we do find banks that finance those customers. Those
banks finance them at the same interest rates that we finance
at. Certainly they're higher interest rates because you're laking
on a higher level of risk, but the interest rates that they're
charging is no different than our interest rates. The
differentiation is we're holding the paper. We're financing the
deal. And so because of that, we need to provide a warranty
and we also got to provide a good quality vehicle that's going to
continue to run.
Mr. La Pine: But you haven't told me what your interest rates are going to be.
Are they going to at 6%,8%,10%,15%?
Mr. Scheid: No, the interest rales ... well, they vary over time. But typically
you're talking interest rales for these types of customers are
going to be close to 20%, those types of rales. Very consistent
with any rale you'll find at anybody who walks into a dealership
and goes to ... and lel me give you some examples. Wells
Fargo Bank, W.F. Financial - these are all banks that finance
very similar means that we do. They just don't also have the
cars and they charge interest rates very similar to this. But one
thing that's important to remember, when you dive off the lot,
your interest rate covers a lot more than the cost of the car. It
covers all the repairs, it covers all the maintenance, oil changes.
We all know how important an oil change is to the life of a
23702
vehicle. Well, we know that our customers need to have oil
changes so we cover them. We just encourage them to come
back to our building and we cover the oil changes. I mean its
all built into the cost of the program. There's no additional cost.
So if you look at say a traditional interest rate of 8% or 9% for
somebody who has good credit, remember, that person is going
to have to pay for the maintenance on their vehicle. That
person is going to have to pay for the oil changes. When you
take an interest rale such as 8%, 9%, 10% and you add in those
costs, you're effectively going to get to a higher interest rale.
Mr. La Pine: Lel me ask you this question. What are the model years you're
going to have? Are you going to have just three-year old cars,
no older than three, or are you going to have cars that are five
years old? Number two, do you get these cars from the
factories that are lease cars and then tum them back and then
you buy them from the factories? Is that the way it operates?
And number three, you say typically they'll be financed for three
years. Well, if you have a car that's selling for $17,000, you're
financing is going to be prettystiff.
Mr. Scheid: Yes. The average car is actually less than $10,000 so you're
exactly right. You're backing into what's a possible payment to
afford for a customer, and obviously the business model
wouldn't work if we had high dollar cars. Having heard a lot of
questions in your question there, let me attempt to answer them.
J.D. Byrider actually, because they have 120 franchises around
the country, they have access to an enormous amount of
information. And they share that information with all their
franchisees. One of the key points of information that they have
is what are the types of cars that are going to be the highest
quality. And selling thousands and thousands and thousands of
cars a year around the country, they share this information to
show, okay, what's the average breakdown of a Ford Taurus
and how long does a Pontiac Grand Am last? And they publish
a list that's accessible at any given point in time on what are the
best cars to buy. What we find is the average car is going to be
three years old, three to four years old, some cars no more than
60,000 miles. Some cars you can run up to 90,000 miles and
they're still going to be a good quality vehicle. You also asked
where these cars are coming from. A little bit of everywhere.
Some of them are off lease depending on what residuals are
doing on leases. Some of them are cars that were traded in on
new car lots, and the new car dealers are not interested in
selling a three or four year old car that has 60,000 miles. They
come from a lot of different places. And we have buyers. They
23703
don't work on staff. We have people out there, networks out
there where they go out and find these cars and then we
purchase them from them.
Mr. LaPine: Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw: I was going to start by aslang you some questions about your
business model just so that everybody could understand kind of
what J.D. Synder is, which Mr. LaPine already started asking
several questions. I'll just add to that the question that . .
certainly this area is unique, southeast Michigan, in the fad that
we're the Big Three here. I believe somewhere in the
neighborhood of 70% of all vehicles sold at new car dealerships
are on lease as opposed to sales, which is pretty unique. How
does this affect your business and the viability of your business
because you have a lot of people that just keep re -upping their
leases?
Mr. Scheid: A good question. What pu typically find is the customers that
we ... once again, the customer base that's attractive to us for
our business and the customers that typically come to us for
help, those are customers that have been turned down by a new
car dealership, whether its for a new or used car. And what you
find with a lease typically, a lease car is going to be approved
typically because of lease rales by somebody who has a credit
score and somebody has a credit worthiness that can afford that
vehicle. So to be frank with you, Mr. Wilshaw, we almost never
run into that type of an issue. Now, the flip side of that is, the
cars coming off lease actually help our business because when
you have a lot of cars coming off lease, it drives the values
down of cars and obviously it provides us with inventory.
Mr. Wilshaw: Right. Now, the other question along on that line, the typical
age of your vehicle is three or four years, perhaps off lease. Do
you also have a variety of vehicles as far as a consumer coming
in, can they gel vans and trucks and small cars, large cars?
What sort of variety do you have?
Mr. Scheid: That's a good question. It lends to be a blend. Now, an
important thing to understand when you're asking about the
business model, when a customer comes on our lot, we're going
to have a limited range of vehicles. I'm taking a guess here, a
little bit here, but it's probably like 60% sedans, those types of
things. I'm thinking like Pontiac Grand Ams and Ford Taurus.
We'll have a more limited number of trucks and SUVs just
because of the price of those vehicles, even coming off lease,
23]04
They lend to be a little bit ... or coming in a secondary market,
they lend to be a little bit more expensive, but I have seen
Chevy Blazers and those types of things on our lot. But when a
customer comes onto our lot, what we encourage them to do,
and really the way our business works, they first come in and
we're first their financial advisor. We first work with them to put
together a budget and a plan that works for them and frankly
works for us. When you gel done with that plan, what you find
of our 50 cars silting on our lot, or 40 - 50 cars silting on the lot,
they may only qualify for 10 of them because if we put them in a
car they can't afford, not only do they fail, but we fail as well.
And so you really have to limit it down to okay, what car can
they afford. And clearly if they're interested in a van, we'll see if
we can work in a van, and if they're interested in a sedan, we'll
see if we can work that in. But for our customers to be
successful in the business model, they need to work with us as
much as we need to work with them.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Now, you have two other J.D. Byrider franchises, one in
Kalamazoo and one in Lansing. How long have those been in
operation?
Mr. Scheid: Good question. We opened up our Kalamazoo operation in
2000, so we're closing out our sixth year there, sixth, seventh
year, actually, the end of 2000. And our J.D. Byrlder in Lansing,
R's just over three years old. We opened that operation in the
middle of 2003. I'm glad you asked about those. The important
note there too is the Lansing operation, out of 120 J.D. Byriders,
ranks number three in customer service. So the way that we
treat our customers, and Kalamazoo ranks number seven out of
120 J.D. Byriders. These are customer surveys that come back
in. And I was just informed, I did not realize this, but we actually
just won ... J.D. Byrider does an award for their facilities, their
built prototypes and they're obviously interested in their
franchisees making their facilties. They come to our facilities
multiple times a year to make sure that we're living by the
franchise standards. We actually won the award for our
facilities in both Lansing and Kalamazoo as of this most recent
year l guess.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Good. Because that's gang to be important as we go
forward and as the City Council looks at this, as well as to
understand how the business operates and how its going to ft
into our area. Now to talk a little bit about the building itself, part
of the reason we're looking at your proposal, I do have a few
questions about the building. You started out with a building
23705
that was pretty much prototypical. You've made several
improvements to the quality of the materials on the building.
Are you going to provide a color rendering or material samples,
those types of things, to show us where you are right now with
the brick, the colors, all that type of thing?
Mr. Scheid:
Yeah, one thing we need to sort out is the final color of the brick,
but I did bring two samples which I'm more than happy to pass
around to the Board, of what this Quik Brik is. When you look at
it from a distance, its brick. It looks everything like brick. One
of the advantages, it is structural. And so, typically, the J.D.
Synder's used a lighter color building. That's just their colors,
but coming onto the corridor here, the corridor colors for the
columns that you have up and down the corridor, they're a
darker red brick. So what we've looked at, and actually the
rendering we have there is something we're going to attempt to
try and match. Now you gel into bricks and, as you know,
different brick manufacturers and Quik Brik versus a standard
brick, we'll do the best we can to match it up, but while not a
perfect color match I can give you here, what I can tell you is its
going to be something similar.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. And the business hours of your business. What days are
you going to operate?
Mr. Scheid:
7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m., and an important distinction there is we
don't open on Sunday. So I guess as you start to gel into
concerns about what's going to go onto the property, whether
it's a restaurant or whatever else that would typically be open on
the weekends, Tale hours, we're not open on Sunday, and then
on Saturday, we have limited hours. We're open until 5:00 in
Lansing and 4:00 in Kalamazoo.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. And you expect to have Saturday hours?
Mr. Scheid:
Yes. Limited. We close down at mid-aftemoon, you know,
500.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Now, because your dealership doesn't gel new vehicles, you go
out and purchase used one. Tell me a little bit about the vehicle
delivery process for vehicles coming into your facility. How
many are going to come in, how often? These are questions
that our residents are surely going to be concerned with.
Mr. Sheid:
Sure. That's a natural concern. Typically in a new car lot, and
I'll contrast that for you first. On a new car lot, you have car
237M
carriers that bring your cars that can be anywhere from a sixcar
carrier short bed to a multiple bed that can actually carry up to
14 cars. In our case, it's much different because we're going
out looking for these cars in onesies twosies. You know, 40 to
50 percent of the time we actually have drivers that go gel the
cars. They drive them on the lot. So there's nothing different
than a patron coming onto our lot. That's for cars that are
sourced from a radius of say 100 miles or so. We do buy some
cars out of stale because you have to go find the cars wherever
you can find the cars. Those typically come in on say like a four -
car bed. Its a truck that just comes in, they drive right out front
there and within 10 minutes they have your cars off the lot and
they're done. I dont want to say its inconspicuous but its not a
big car carrier. That's just not the model because you dont find
cars in those types of masses, so you get them when you can.
Mr. Wilshaw:
We've had concerns from other dealerships on Plymouth that
have had to unload their vehicles on Plymouth Road itself,
which obstructs traffic. So you're facility isn't going to have that
problem, right?
Mr. Sheid:
No. Absolutely not. In fad, if you look at our Lansing facility, the
lot is a little bit lighter than where we're at here, and there's no
chance on earth that on Cedar Street in Lansing we could
unload cars in the middle of Cedar Street. They make it on
there, they make it out of there, and nobody knows the
difference.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. One last question. Also, in regard to noise at your
facility. You have repair bays in the back where you said that
you're going to be doing some oil changes, and you're going to
touch up the vehicles that come in to make sure that they're in
good working order. What sort of noise is going to be
generated? Are you going to have any outdoor operation? Any
storage of parts that come off these vehicles, that type of thing?
Mr. Sheid:
Good question. To answer you're first question there, no, we
will not have any outdoor operations. There will be no repairs
done outside. And an important thing loo, we're not going to
have a body shop. So I heard you say touchup and those type
of things. We're not going to be doing paint. We're not going to
be doing body shop. The reality is if we have to gel into that,
the car doesn't work for our business model. We're not going to
be storing things outside. The only thing outside is cars. We're
not going to be storing things. And the other thing is, our cars
are not junk, for lack of a better way to put R. I mean they just
23]07
don't work for our business model. So if someone brings in a
piece of junk, we've got to get it out of there pretty quick. We
don't have the room to store those types of things. We're not
going to do any work outside. You asked about the noise. I
don't want to say it's typical dealership noise because we're
doing limited repairs. In fad, the noisiest thing in our dealership
is the air compressor, but lel me put this in perspective. Our air
compressor in Lansing sits on a wall adjacent to our offices. So
the place where the air compressor sits is right in the middle of
the building and adjacent to our offices. In Lansing, we have
metal in the back and we do not have a block wall separating
the shop and the offices. We've never had a complaint from
customers, employees for the noise coming from the
compressor, and that's the noisiest thing you gel in a
dealership. We've got doors on both sides. And we've gone to
the block. I mean the block is probably the biggest thing that is
going to shield any noise coming out of the dealership. And like
I mentioned, even our metal building in Lansing, and Kalamazoo
for that matter, we haven't had noise issues coming through the
metal.
Mr. Wilshaw: Well, you get the sound of air guns laking lug nuts off, that type
of thing.
Mr. Sheid: Sure.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yourdoors are going to be closed during operation?
Mr. Shied: Yes, other than to gel in and out of there, close the doors, yep.
Mr. Wilshaw: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Mr. La Pine: You're basically not doing any actual repairs there except oil
changes, lune -ups and things of that nature?
Mr. Shied: Yeah. You know it's hard to distinguish types ... we're not
doing major engine overhauls and body work. I mean we're
doing repairs. When a car comes in, you have to change an
alternator, you have to put a new set of tires on, you know. If
we have to start dealing with major engine work, that's not our
car. That just doesn't ft our model.
Mr. LaPine: I understood you when you made your presentation. You still
own the car until the person pays for it. Now, I assume you
would either gel them insurance to cover collision and so forth
for the car. If they have an accident and the car needs repair,
23]08
Sandra Nowak Rosenberger, 35810 Elmira. Hi, Allen. I don't know if he's a
relative or not. I went ahead and look the liberty of writing up a
number of questions that my neighbors and I have compiled that
we would like answered, and I would like to pass these down to
everybody so it will make it a little easier. First of all, regarding
another auto dealership in the area, there's nine already within a
two mile radius. That's kind of redundant to have another one.
Plus we also have at least five collision/bump shops in the area.
We find that's pretty unacceptable to have another one right
behind our backyards. Now Iunderstand that there are at least
19 double lights going into this area on the property. I think
do they bring them back to you and you take care of them?
How is that handled?
Mr. Sheid:
One point of clarification, technically, they own the car. When
we sell them the car, they technically own it. They have to take
title to the car. We own the financing on the cars. We have a
lien on the vehicle. If a car gets in a accident, depending on the
nature of the accident, it's probably no longer any good and so,
yeah, we, just like any other bank, require insurance on the
vehicles and, you know, if there's an insurance settlement,
that's where we work with our customers to pay off the vehicle
and hopefully put them in another vehicle.
Mr. La Pine:
Does each individual customer contact and get his own
insurance or does he get it through your company?
Mr. Sheid:
Yes. Although we can help him find insurance, but we're not an
insurance company. But the state requires insurance. You
want to register a car and each year when you update your
registration, you have to have insurance and prove it to the
state, which obviously protects our interest. But while we can
help our customers find insurance, we're not an insurance
company.
Mr. LaPine:
I'll be honest with you. I'm not really enthused about having
another dealership, a used car lot, on Plymouth Road. The only
thing in your favor is what's there now is pretty bad and
whatever you're going to build there has to be an improvement,
unless I hear something else from the neighors.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any other questions or comments for the petitioner?
Hearing none, thank you for your explanation. We appreciate
the depth of it. Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to
speak for or against this petition?
Sandra Nowak Rosenberger, 35810 Elmira. Hi, Allen. I don't know if he's a
relative or not. I went ahead and look the liberty of writing up a
number of questions that my neighbors and I have compiled that
we would like answered, and I would like to pass these down to
everybody so it will make it a little easier. First of all, regarding
another auto dealership in the area, there's nine already within a
two mile radius. That's kind of redundant to have another one.
Plus we also have at least five collision/bump shops in the area.
We find that's pretty unacceptable to have another one right
behind our backyards. Now Iunderstand that there are at least
19 double lights going into this area on the property. I think
23709
that's correct, 19 double lights. That would be 38 lights. Now,
Mr. Zieglers representative has said that the lights would be
dimmed down in the evening after it closes at 8:00 or whenever.
Four hundred watts per light is still an awful lot of light, and if
you multiply that by 38 lights, I've got daylight in my backyard. I
will not have night at all. I will not have any darkness. I already
have lights from the Hitch House and Ford across the street.
My bedroom window faces the back of my property, and my
bedroom is very, very bright at night already from these lights.
Can you imagine 38 more sodium or mercury vapor lights, even
on dim, at 400 watts per light? I will not have night. Neither will
my neighbors. That's a great concern of mine. Now
supposedly it opens at 7:00 in the morning until 8:00 at night,
and its going to be closed on Sundays. Seven o'clock is real
early to have a business open, especially in a residential area.
We're concerned about that. We're concerned possibly that
there would be piped canned music coming out from the
building, but I understand that won't be happening so that's a
positive. The 20 fool greenbelt that is supposed to be left
behind the back of the properly that would abut my brick wall
and the neighbors brick walls that separate our property from
Cockmm's Markel is basically scrub and trash wood or what
you would call softwood. It's not thick. Its verythin. We're not
going to have any privacy. We're going to see this building no
matter what. I understand there's supposed to be storage
behind the building, and then the greenbelt. So whatever they
choose to store back there, we're going to have full view of. It's
not going to be pretty. We're concerned about our properly
values going down because of this. Right now, yes, I know it
kind of looks like hillbilly central back there with Cockrum's farm,
but it's not going to be any better once this goes in, if it does.
Also, I have informed the Mayor's Office, the Engineer office,
Mr. Taormina and Mr. Schron that since Cockmm's Market
properly is lower than my backyard which abuts it, I get flooding
six to len limes per year in my backyard three feet deep. If this
business gets approval, I need to know what assurances I and
my neighbors have that flooding will no longer be an issue. And
I did speak to Mr. Taormina yesterday, and I gave him some
inaccurate information. I said that the water comes out of the
culvert into my backyard. And my husband corrected me last
night when I spoke to him. He said, no, its because the
property behind our wall on Cockmm's Markel is loo low and the
water comes into our backyard and that's why we're having
flooding. So I certainly hope that if this building does get built,
that somehow, someway the flooding problem will be
eradicated. Thank you.
23710
Robert Oppenlander, 35824 Elmira. I look the liberty of laking a picture of the
scrub that is behind the commercial wall. I will pass it on. As
you can see, you can see right through it. You can see the
building of the nursery. And I look a measurement of that area
and its from 55 to 65 feel wide depending on where you make
your measurement. It's noljusl straight across. If this 35 to 55,
25 to 35 feet is taken away, there's not going to be much left for
privacy, which is what I would like. This privacy is going to be
gone. We have, at least when the trees are green, we have a
buffer area that absorbs the noise. Now, with the building, there
going to ratcheting, and when doors open up, that ratcheting is
going to be heard. So there's going to be a noise concern with
7:00 a.m. especially in the summertime when my grandchildren,
who are living with me, are able to sleep to 9:00 - 10:00 in the
morning, which they frequently do on the weekends when
school is in session. With the number of lights, with 38 lights,
there's approximately, from what I saw on the plans, in the
neighborhood of 12 lights, I would say. Three, 6 and then the
front lights, 10 lights, that are facing towards our homes. With
nothing to blind that light way, the lights are going to be right on
our homes. Its going to be like grand central station. I'm
concerned about what they're going to store since the cars they
are going to gel are in such good shape or supposedly are in
good shape that there's. I don't know, not loo much to be
stored. If they're going to have cars that are worthwhile, their
cars to be sold are going to be up in the front. So what is there
really to be stored? And when you are working on engines, you
have solvents that are going to be involved. Now with the trash
container, what is that going to contain? So we have first of all,
we have a problem with lights; we have a problem with noise;
we have a problem with seeing the building and the goings on
there. It's going to be right in our backyard. Now I have a
beautiful home. My properly value is going to be depreciated.
Who in the world would want to live behind something like that?
It's coming after I'm there. Now, I went into the computer, if you
will bear with me, and I found some information that's rather
interesting about J.D. Byrlder and CNAC Finance Company.
May I read it please? Shady collection practices, rude
employees, resold my car but now charging me for it.
Kalamazoo, Michigan. I used to work for CNAC. Surprised that
CNAC/J.D. Byrlder has not been seriously looked at by the
Federal Trade Commission.
Mr. Walsh: Sir, I appreciate your research, but we dont know your sources.
23711
Mr. Oppenlander: My resource is Google on the computer
Mr. Walsh:
Okay. I'm just going to try to keep comments to the site plan
and we appreciate it. I allowed a couple there but I dont want
to go further with that.
Mr. Oppenlander:
Okay. But I do have concerns. Also, there's more than just 9
car businesses; there's 10, because Bill Brown is not on the list,
and it has three different spots for new cars, used cars and then
some. And then we have a vacant building, the U.S. Tire, which
already has a building up, already has bays. Why not use it?
And then with 9 bays, with two cars in each bay, how much, if
these cars are in such good shape, how much is there to be
done that it lakes 18 vehicles in a building to be taken care of? I
do have concerns. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you, sir.
Kathleen Cox, 35851 Elmira. Good evening. This is my husband, David. Bob
has staled some of our concerns also. One of the things all of
you sifting here couldn't wail, I bel, to move into Livonia. We did
six years ago. It was our dream. And now our dream is being
destroyed because we have a car dealership supposedly
moving into our neighborhood. And the things is, if you go
around Livonia, Garden City or Westland, and you take a look at
the dealerships that are on Ford Road, Plymouth Road, that
have service centers, they do not back up to any type of
residential area. There is usually a big Iol or a Iolwilh cars on it.
Ours is going to be backed up to five of our dear neighbors
houses, who have children, who again came to Livonia for a
dream. And it's going to be destroyed because we have a car
dealership. We have nine service bays, two cars each, that
equals 18 cars at a time. And not only that, its going to be to
the back so we will have the noise and everything else. And if
you look at the noise level at a Taco Bell, can't you imagine
would it would be EPA -wise at a car dealership? As Bob stated
and you brought to his altenfion, we're here to make the facts. I
am pleading with you as a Livonia resident to go out to the
internet and bring up J.D. Byrider and Zeigler. I was amazed at
what I found, and I fell with them bringing up the topic that their
customers, they treat them right as soon as they come in the
door, I think if you go out to any one of the numerous, numerous
sections, pages on pages, 20, 30, 40, you'll be very surprised.
And I dont know if it's appropriate, but I don't feel the City of
Livonia has to spend our lax money on lawsuits as the one that
was just settled in 2006 in Kentucky for $7.1 million, 14,400
23712
complaints in a four-year period. And I'm not here to badmouth.
I would have been happy to have anything, really. As you say,
it's not a good sight there. I told my husband tonight, I'd rather
have a Hooters come in. Al lead we know their food is good.
Okay? But there's a lot of information out there of unhappy
customers. You make up your own decision. The only thing I
ask is thalyou go out and take a look at it.
David Cox: We request you do the due diligent on that.
Ms. Cox: Please. Thank you for your time.
Mary Jo Busharl, 35850 Elmira. My property backs up against the wall that
would be the back of their building. I'm concerned about quite a
few things in addition to all the things that my neighbors have
mentioned. I'm concerned about introducing crime to the area.
When you're dealing with used cars, you're not usually dealing
with people that are of the highest quality. I think that was
mentioned when he said that they're not credit worthy. I think
when you picture a used car dealership, you picture bright
gaudy flags and everything around the area, and again the type
of people that it attracts. With trash dumpslers being in the
back, I'm concerned about rodents and things like that. I have
two small children. I'm concerned about toxins and chemicals
that will be used, and they might say they're not harmful at this
point, but in 20 years, who knows what they could be. Both of
my children suffer from severe allergies and asthma. Why
introduce something else that going to potentially be harmful to
their health? The improvements were mentioned about
Plymouth Road and keeping up with what the City expects and
wants for Plymouth Road. Except for the mention of green wall,
there really isn't anything that's mentioned to keep it looking
good for us and for our families. Both of my children's
bedrooms are upstairs in the rear of the home, which faces their
building. I feel that this building is much loo large for the
property that's available. I'm certain that our home values will
decrease. We're already in a poor economic stale and we really
can't afford to have our home values drop any more. They say
they're financial planners first. I dont know who theyre kidding
because I am a financial planner and the first rule of sales is to
make the sale. The tree line buffer that we currently have, for
three out of four seasons, we don't have any leaves. So the
small amount of trees that they're willing to leave there really
isn't going to do much for three out of four seasons. They say
that the average price of a car is $10,000. 1 lease two brand
new vehicles. I understand that $10,000 is not going to buy you
23]13
much. They also state that the average age of their vehicles are
three to four years. I don't remember the last time Ford made a
Taurus or Chevy made a Blazer, so their vehicles have to be
more than four years old, especially if they're going to be
$10,000. 1 view this in the same way that people view refineries
- not in my backyard. When I purchased my home, I understood
that was a commercial property there and at the time,
Cockrum's Markel was still functioning. I did not have a
problem with that. I have a lot of problems with this building and
this corporation putting uplhal type of facility.
Richard Bushart, 35850 Elmira. I'm Mary Jo's husband. Again, behind the
proposed dealership. When I think of Livonia, I think of families
first. We all see it on the signs. Can I pass this around because
this is Livonia.
Mr. Walsh: Sure. If you just want to hand it to Ms. Watson, she'll pass it
along.
Mr. Bushart: I think it's simple. Back in 2002, we were adding a son to our
family. So that made four so we had to move. We had two
choices: Canton and Livonia. Well, we chose Livonia simply
because families first. Here's what's going to happen if this
goes through. Not only will our home values depredate, which
they will. I cant have my two children playing in the backyard.
So what's going to happen is I'm going to have to move out of
the City I enjoy being in. I'm obviously going to take a huge loss
on my house, and I really have no idea where I'd move to. I
wouldn't be able to afford much. But I guess my biggest thing is
personal. I just want what's best for myfamily, and I know that's
what Livonia is about.
Donald Paul, 35839 Elmira. I also have all the concerns that my other neighbors
do and then some. I do have one neighbor that is out of town
that did type up a small letter of their objection. I wonder if I
could submit that?
Mr. Walsh: Please.
Mr. Paul: Thank you. One of the main problems I have also, they can say
all they want to about what they'll do about lighting, our
bedroom is upstairs and it faces Plymouth Road. We have the
car wash that's four or five houses down from me that you can
go in the first house and you can actually read a paper at 10:00
at night in their backyard without turning a light on. That
compounds the whole issue of the lighting. I dont care if they
23714
put them 15 feel, 20 bet, face them whatever way they want.
They're going to be faced from Plymouth Road towards us and
that's definitely going to hit me in my bedroom window. And
yes, I could put a room darkener on there and pull the shades,
but what are you going to do in the summertime? You want
your windows open. Also, I just don't think this is the type of
business that we need in our area. I believe that our
neighborhood, our surrounding area, are all employed, probably
a big majority work for Ford Motor Company. It's right across
the street. I don't think that we have a lot of high-risk people in
our neighborhood that have bad credit. We all own houses.
Driving around my neighborhood, I don't see any particularly
junk cars parked around the neighborhood. So I don't really
believe that we need this car lot there. And the gentleman
stated that there won't be any noise. I would just like to ask
them one question. Is their service garage aircondilioned?
Because if it isn't, they can't tell me the bay doors aren't going
to be open in the summertime while they're working on cars.
And through personal experience with some of the dealerships
I've been in, I don't believe they aircondition their service
garages. I don't think they lake that good of care of their
employees. That's all I have to say.
Steven Druc, 35625 Elmira. I've been a resident of Livonia for 28 years on
Elmira Street. Both my parents and my in-laws moved to
Livonia in 1950. 1 went to school in Livonia, grew up as a kid in
Livonia, got married, moved out, moved back to the City of
Livonia for several reasons: family, community, one of the
safest communities to live in the U.S., the school system and
the city services. I've got mixed feelings about the petition. It is
great to see business waning to come into the City of Livonia.
We desperately need it. We need the lax base. We need to
maintain our current city services that we all enjoy as residents.
However, on the Plymouth Road corridor we have no less,
starting at approximately one halt mile east of Middlebelt Road
going west along Plymouth Road, down to Wayne Road, no less
than 8 or 9 new and used car dealerships. I ask each one of
you, do we, does the City of Livonia, really need another car
business on Plymouth Road? I think not. Six months out of the
year, I'm pretty much blocked from the lights from Kicker's
restaurant, from the Hitch House, from the car wash. Six
months there's no leaves on the trees. I live in a colonial on
Elmira Street, the older part of Elmira. The five houses backing
up the property in question, their property values will be
significantly impacted by this petition, by this building, by this
dealership going into this area. Residents on the east and west
23]15
side of those homes on Elmira Court and Elmira Street will also
be impacted on their property values. I plan on retiring and
staying in the City of Livonia. I cannot afford at this time to have
the value of my house dedine more than it already has due to
the economic conditions in the State of Michigan.
Unfortunately, some of our neighbors were not able to attend
tonight due to illnesses, so on and so forth. I represent some of
them. I am respectfully requesting at this time that the members
of the commission once again think about the question I asked,
Do we really need another dealership on Plymouth Road? I
would much rather see that properly slay vacant as it is, even
though it is somewhat of an eyesore, or the property would
better be suited, I think, to maybe an office; medical building,
one story, normal hours - say from 8:00 to 5:00, 8:00 to 6:00,
something like that with less impact on the neighborhood, less
noise pollution, less light pollution. I respectfully request at this
time that the petition for the parcel of properly in question for a
used car dealership be denied. Thank you for your time.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to speak for or
against this item? I will close the public hearing. The petitioner
has the last word.
Aaron Zeigler,
President, J.D. Byrider and the Harold Zeigler Auto Group. I
completely understand where the residents are coming from
that border this piece of property. They did certainly make
some accusations against us, which were untrue, and I don't
want to get into that right now. The other two J.D. Byriders that
we have, both of them in Kalamazoo and in Lansing, back up to
residential areas where there's houses. In both of those cases
before we built the facility, and we want to do this here as well,
we sat down and we mel with the neighbors. And hearing
everybody out there, I think what I'm hearing is that they just
don't want this piece of properly to be developed because its
going to affect ...
Unifdenlifed audience
member: Inaudible statement.
Mr. Zeigler:
That's my opinion from listening to them, is that they don't want
this piece of property to be developed because there's going to
be lights there, there's going to be a building there. Well,
anybody that comes in there, there's going to be lights and a
building or there's going to be a building built there.
Unfortunately, the gentleman that owned the piece of properly
along with his wife that had it for a long time has passed away.
It is his wife's main asset that she has left in her life. She needs
23716
to sell that from an estate planning standpoint before she
passes away. The piece of property has been for sale for quite
a long time. Our best guess is well over a year. And she hasn't
been able to sell that yet until we came along. Everybody said
there's either 9 or 10 dealerships I'm hearing along Plymouth
Road depending upon how you count. We're not in competition
with any one of those dealerships. As a matter of fad, that's
where we get about 80 percent of our customers are referrals
from other new car dealerships. Something else that everybody
mentioned here was, we had offered to leave at least a 20 fool
greenspace, and we want to have a buffer between our
business and the houses. If the residents don't feel that the
greenspace there is adequate, we would be more than willing to
go out there and plant trees to present a buffer between us and
them. We want to be a good neighbor. We certainly don't want
to hurt property values. We don't want to be disruptive to the
neighbors. We want to come in and provide a service that's
currently being underserved in the market. We want to be a
good neighbor. I'm more than willing to sit down with each and
every one of the neighbors and willing to put a plan in writing
that we'll come up with a buffer zone and that we'll do
everything we can to minimize any disturbance from their
standpoint. Al both of our other dealerships, we have not had
one noise complaint or any complaint of any kind from anyone
of the neighbors that back up to either our Kalamazoo piece of
property or our Lansing piece of property. One last thing, loo,
approximately 50 percent of the people in the United States are
our customer base. So I know a couple people mentioned they
didn't feel that our used car customers were worthy. I guess
they don't understand it. Theyre good quality people. I've got a
lot of my family members who have bought used cars. Our
customers are good people. Just because they've had issues
with credit or they don't have any credit, we find that's a lot of
kids that are coming out of college or coming out of school that
don't have credit. It doesn't mean that they're bad people.
They're not bad people. They're good people. Our organization
is a family-owned business just like theyve all got families. I
have a family. I have two young children. So does our chief
financial officer. And that's why we don't want to deter the
quality of life of the neighbors around us. We want to work with
them, and we're willing to work with them to minimize any
disturbances that they might have. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh: Mr. Zeigler, if I could asked one question just because one
neighbors asked. Is your service bay going to be air
conditioned?
23]1]
Mr. Zeigler: Actually, we have 10 dealerships and none of them are air-
conditioned, and the doors are down at all limes. We're more
than happy to write that into an ordinance other than when a car
is going in or going out. Our doors are automatic so when you
drive up to them, they go up. When you drive in, they go back
down. There's no way b keep the doors up or anything like
that.
Mr. Walsh: All right. Thank you. Mr. LaPine?
Mr. LaPine: Mr. Zeigler, have you purchased the property or is it contingent
on getting the waivers?
Mr. Zeigler: It would be contingent upon getting approval for our business
there. We do have a non-refundable deposit on the properly at
this point.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you. Al this point, a motion would be in order.
Mr. LaPine:
Do you think it would be good for us to maybe table this and let
the petitioner and neighbors gel together and discuss it and see
if there's any way that they can come to some agreement?
Mr. Walsh:
Well, Mr.LaPine, you understand that once a tabling motion is
on the table, its not to be discussed.
Mr. LaPine:
I understand, but I'm saying if I made the motion, I was
wondering how all the other members feel before I make the
motion so we can discuss it.
Mr. Walsh:
No. We're governed by Robert's Rules. Robert's Rules require
that when a tabling motion is made ...
Mr. LaPine:
But I haven't made a tabling motion. If I do ...
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. LaPine, you can't circumvent the rules in that manner.
Mr. LaPine:
Well, I disagree with you.
Mr. Walsh:
If you wish to offer a tabling resolution, you may do so.
Mr. Morrow:
Well, at the risk of upsetting the Chairman, the petitioners did
say they were willing to work with the neighbors to resolve some
of the concerns that they had, and I don't know how we can do
that unless we table it.
23718
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. Morrow, understand, it's not persona Ily upsetting to me. Its
a question of precedent and the rules by which we operate. So
all I'm suggesting is that if you wish to offer a tabling resolution,
for consistency's sake, virtually every other activity that we've
taken, someone should offer it and we should see if it passes or
fails. A resolution is in order.
Mr. Wilshaw:
I do think that this is a fairly significant proposal that's being
made. I think that the petitioner has addressed several issues
already, but they have discussed and mentioned that there's a
willingness for them to work with the neighbors to enhance the
greenbelt and the screen that's in the rear of the property. I do
think that's probably not a bad thing to do, and for the sake of
abiding with Robert's Rules, I will make a tabling resolution at
this time to see how it goes.
On a motion by
Wilshaw, seconded by LaPine, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-123-2006
RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
table Petition 2006-10-02-27 submitted by Harold Zeigler Auto
Group, on behalf of J. D. Byrider, Inc., requesting waiver use
approval to operate an auto dealership at 35841 Plymouth
Road, on property located on the south side of Plymouth Road
between Levan Road and Yale Avenue in the Northeast % of
Section 32.
Mr. Walsh:
The motion passes. Ladies and gentlemen, what this means is
we will table this to a dale uncertain. We'll provide the
opportunity for the petitioner to decide which way they wish to
proceed. They may or may not contact you. That's up to them.
This will be rescheduled. You'll receive notice again of when we
have a hearing. I'll answer the question only for purposes of
procedure. Yes ma'am.
Unidentified audience member: Inaudible.
Mr. Walsh:
That would be something that if he chooses to contact
neighbors, you'll need to address. I can assure you we will take
into account whether or not they do meet with you next time we
meet. All right, this will be adjourned until a dale uncertain.
Thank you.
23719
k1=lAi Uk=9=k IY Ile] 7 lKiDI S 0:1 Ti f_CN'1
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Pefifion 2006-
10-02-28 submitted by The Velmeir Companies requesting
waiver use approval to construct a commercial building (CVS
Pharmacy) with a drive lhru pharmacy at 37300 Five Mile Road,
located on the northeast corner of Five Mile Road and
Newburgh Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 17.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning ofthe surrounding area.
Mr. LaPine: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated October 17, 2006, which reads
as follows: 'Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division
has reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no
objections to the proposal at this time. No additional right-of-
way is required. The legal description as shown is for the
overall and is correct. There are capacity issues with the
existing storm sewers in this area and the detention facilities are
appropriate. The designer should verify with Wayne County
whether or not a County permit will be required for this facility."
The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer.
The second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division,
dated October 18, 2006, which reads as follows: `This office
has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection with a
request to construct a CVS Pharmacy with a drive thru window
on property located on the northeast comer of Five Mile Road
and Newburgh Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 17. We
have no objections to this proposal with the following stipulation:
If subject building is to be provided with an automatic sprinkler
system, an on-site hydrant shall be located between 50 feet and
100 feet from the Fire Department connection." The letter is
signed by Andrew C. Walker, Fire Marshal. The third letter is
from the Inspection Department, dated October 24, 2006, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of October 16,
2006, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) At review it is unclear if the intention is to
make the CVS a separate site/entity or remain as part of
business center having four or more separate business uses. If
it is to remain part of the center, they would be allowed 2
monument signs, 8 foot tall maximum with 40 square feet of
signage each. As a single entity the sign maximum would be as
drawn but only 1 sign would be allowed. (2) The parking count
23720
is not quite correct. There are 14 spaces not 15 to the west of
the CVS. All parking is to be double striped. In addition,
consideration should be given to shifting the CVS barrier free
parking spaces to the immediate west near the front of the
building to avoid crossing a traffic aisle (if available). (3) All light
poles should be a maximum of 20 feet high including the base.
(4) All landscaping should be irrigated. (5) Consideration should
be given to pedestrian protection from the detention pond and
what this protection will be. (6) This site is allowed one wall sign
of approximately 90 square feet and a second wall sign of 45
square feet All other signage and additional square footage
must obtain a zoning grant from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
No identification is allowed on traffic control signs. (7) On the
cover sheet, the site soils should be referencing a soil survey of
Wayne County. (8) It is unclear where the sufficient amount of
waiting space for the drive -up window is located. This should
be clarifad to the Commission and Council's satisfaction. This
Department has no further objections to this petition. The letter
is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That
is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners before we go
to the petitioner? Seeing none, gentlemen....
Lawrence McNally, Atwell -Hicks, 50182 Schoenherr Road, Shelby Township,
Michigan. Al this time, we're very pleased to come before you.
We have had several constructive meetings with staff as well as
some study sessions. I think at this time what I would like to do
is entertain any questions that the Commission may have. We
did address the majority of the comments that were
enumerated. Some of them were informational, and if you wish
for me to touch on those, I'd be happy to at this time.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine: Regarding the basin, I mentioned to you the way it was done at
Six Mile and Haggerty Road. They have boulders in there and
they have the fountains. It looks like you just have landscaping
there. Is that what we're going to have?
Mr. McNally: Can we go to the cross-sections please? We do have boulders.
There is lower lying shrubbery, if you will, along the water's
edge itself, as well as deciduous trees planted around it. We
have incorporated boulder outcroppings into the side bins which
are on the 1:6 side slope. Again, at six feet we would come up
one fool. So as tall as I am, that's as much as we would
23]21
actually change an elevation. The fountain, we looked at that
and one of the items that we have realized in many of the
developments that we have done over time, is fountains can be
quite a bit of a maintenance issue, particularly if they're .
we're going to have fluctuating water elevations in this detention
pond. We'll have three to four fool of standing water in it at all
limes pursuant to Wayne County requirements. And then when
you do have a storm, you increase that water level up by the
required amount of detention. So what you actually end up with
is just a little ripple in the middle of it and then down over time it
will come back up. That will continue to fluctuate, and that can
kind of play havoc on some of the pump systems in there.
Mr. LaPine:
The only reason I mention it is because I know the one on Six
Mile and Newburgh operates beautifully and the water is always
clear looking because the fountains keep going and it keeps
circulation in the water. Here you're just going to have the water
standing. Is that correct?
Mr. McNally:
There will be a permanent water elevation in there.
Mr. La Pine:
Thank you.
Mr. Wilshaw:
1, loo, have a bit of a concern over standing water just forming
algae or you know collecting material in it or what have you, you
know, making sure it stays attractive. I appreciate those
questions Mr. LaPine asked. I do also have a couple questions
about the signage. Obviously, you have quite a few different
pieces of signs. One of the monument signs is a Century Plaza
sign thafs currently there that you're going to modify to basically
put your name on along with Century Plaza at the lop. That you
have in your package here as Sign No. 2. Is Century Plaza
okay with you doing that? Did you gel approval from them to
modify that sign?
Mr. McNally:
Yes. That is the shared development sign. Yes, that is
consistent with our dealings with the landlord.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. So they're okay with you putting your name on it. And
then the north entrance to your facility off of Newburgh, which is
really toward the drive-lhrus, is that going to be a two-way
entrance and exit or is it strictlyjusl an entrance?
Mr. McNally:
In this area right here?
Mr. Wilshaw:
Yes.
23]22
Mr. McNally:
That will remain as it is right now -two-way, full service.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay. Because you have indicated that Sign No. 8 is a
entrance sign that is right by that driveway.
Mr. McNally:
Correct. That was actually a result of our study session.
There's an entrance sign that is a pharmacy entrance sign and
that was at the recommendation so that people would know
when they come in off of Newburgh that they would travel
around this way of the site to gel into the drop-off and also the
pickup for the pharmacy.
Mr. Wilshaw:
Okay.
Mr. McNally:
We originally did not have it on there, but as a recommendation
of our study session, we were encouraged to include it as just
directional information.
Mr. Wilshaw:
That's the only two questions I have for now. Thank you.
Mr. La Pine:
Are there any other questions from members of the
Commission?
Mr. Morrow:
Did I hear thatthe CVS will own their own parcel?
Mr. McNally:
Thal they will not own their own parcel?
Mr. Morrow:
They will own their parcel.
Mr. McNally:
They will not own their parcel. It will be a leased deal with the
landlord.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. That's what I was wondering. I saw that line up the
middle there and I thought maybe the property was being split.
Mr. McNally:
That's a demising line just showing the acreage calculations,
number one, and this would be the area that CVS is going to be
included in their lease.
Mr. Morrow:
So you will be a lessee?
Mr. McNally:
Yes.
Mr. Morrow:
Thank you.
23]23
Mr. Taormina: I'm just curious as to whether the detention basin will serve the
needs of just the CVS property or whether it includes portions of
the adjacent shopping center property. I'm just wondering from
a practical standpoint how that overall parking lot drains and
whether there is a clean divide where you show that demising
line. That doesn't necessarily follow the sub -drainage districts
of the parking lot, does it?
Mr. McNally: No, it does not. There will have to be ... its a single ownership
so there is no need for a cross -easement as far as slormwaler
detention because it will be owned by one property. The only
thing that would be affected would be maintenance of it, and
even then that would still fall back to the landlord and/or CVS,
depending on how the site development agreement is written.
To answer your question, there is no clear ridge separating the
drainage between the two demised premises.
Mr. Taormina:
So some of the water falling on the adjacent shopping center
property will find its way into that detention pond but not all of it
necessarily.
Mr. McNally:
Correct.
Mr. LaPine:
I just have one question. I just want to gel it clear in my mind.
Will the Dammon Hardware building still be there? And where
Blockbuster used to be, that's the building that's coming down?
Blockbuster was the closest one to Newburgh Road.
Mr. McNally:
Could we go to the demo plan?
Mr. Taormina:
I'm going to go to this aerial photograph. As I understand the
plan, you can actually see what was originally the grocery store
built on this site by the difference in the roofline. This was the
original Dammon Hardware space here, and adjacent to that
was where Blockbuster occupied the west end of the center.
Then Dammon expanded to include the space of the former
Blockbuster, and what s being demolished is this entire part of
the shopping center. Again, the net reduction in floor area space
overall is about 12,900 square feet, almost the size of the CVS
itself.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. That makes it clearer for me. Are there any other
questions? Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to
speak for or against this petition? Please give us your name
and address and your comments.
23724
Kathleen Lipinski, 15523 Liverpool. As you come in the driveway of off
Newburgh Road, what he says is going to be for the pharmacy, I
lake its going to be a 24-hour pharmacy. Those headlights are
going right into all my windows. I live right where Ameritech and
the Dammon complex meet in the corner. So I don't know. Is it
Lot 22, Lot 23? Right there. That's me. But I like CVS. Don't
gel me wrong. I like the idea. I just have some concerns. I'm
concerned about CVS on the comer and Walgreens just a mile
down. I don't want to see that Century Plaza have abandoned
buildings. Next door to where Dammon Hardware is empty and
has been empty for some time already, so you've got quite a
few empty right there. The other thing is that retention pond out
in front. It would be wonderful if it looked like something like Six
Mile and Haggerty instead of just a dirty water pond. I think that
corner, it looks dumpy. And sitting here listening to the Aloha
Market when you questioned how old is that building and lets
like juice it up a little bit. Five and Newburgh looks a little junky
loo. And that retention pond would look great if it had a fountain
in it. You know, something to make it look attractive. My other
concern is when you cul down the building and leave the old
building and build a new building, to what use is that little
building going to be left? Whats left? You know, is it going to
be an eyesore? An old dumpy complex, half a complex and a
brand new CVS.
Mr. LaPine:
We have no control over that. I would assume when the CVS
goes in there, which is a new building, that it may generale
somebody coming in there and renting that building and maybe
upgrading it. Vt hope that's what happens. That was our
hope, but we can't guarantee that.
Ms. Lipinski:
Right. I'm just throwing out things to think about.
Mr. LaPine:
I understand where you're coming from.
Ms. Lipinski:
The complex does need updating because I mean the wall and
everything is just old. Its just such an old appearance.
Mr. LaPine:
If we're lucky, after CVS builds their building, maybe
Blockbuster will come back and tear down and build another
store there.
Ms. Lipinski:
Something because it's so old and dirty. You know, its aged
itself and it makes the comer look dingy. The only other thing
I'm concern with is basically, living, obviously as everybody else
says, behind commercial. And I've lived there going on 10
23]25
years. Liverpool Street is really tired of coming to Council. I sat
here through all these people, listened to all their complaints
about construction and commercial. We've been there. We've
lived through it, and it's always good to just come air my
feelings.
Mr. LaPine:
We appreciate it.
Ms. Lipinski:
Deliveries — is it going to be a 24-hour pharmacy? I'm not real
happy about that. Right now we have a street sweeper that
comes every night, three or four nights a week at 10:30 at night.
In the summertime, you're silting outside. Okay, you listen to
that ramble jamble of the thing. But in the wintertime, most of
us are in bed by 11:00, you know, 10:30, and that thing is
annoying. So when will your street sweeper come if its a 24-
hour business? We were told they couldn't come until 10:30 at
night for the shopping center to close.
Mr. LaPine:
CVS, I would assume, doesn't control that. The landlord
controls that.
Ms. Lipinski:
That would be the landlord but when you're bringing in a 24-
hour business, when are they going to sweep?
Mr. LaPine:
I have no idea. I'll ask the petitioner when you gel done here.
Ms. Lipinski:
Okay. And my other thing is the dumpsler. I can't tell where
your dumpsler is going to be because I look at them all in my
kitchen window when I do my dishes. I can see them all.
Everybody abuses the rules. But hopefully it's not where I'm
going to see that one loo. The lighting ... is there going to be
high lights on the building too in the back?
Mr. LaPine:
We'll ask the question. You have to go through the chair.
Ms. Lipinski:
Oh, sorry. The lighting. I mean that's always an issue. There
are some trees along that brick wall on the residential side, but
obviously those trees are old now. The city, Detroit Edison, has
come by and chopped them a million limes, and they're just, I
mean they're hanging by a leaf. The lights retied obviously
right into our windows, just as everybody else's complaints are.
You guys must have nightmares about all the stories every
week. And if we could get the name of the maintenance
company for that complex. We used to go to the real estate
office when there was an issue with the wall falling apart. The
real estate office is gone. We have no contact with the
23726
management office now to repair the brick wall. Otherwise, I'm
not happy with the 24-hour pharmacy.
Mr. LaPine:
All I can tell you about the 24-hour pharmacy, it's open 24 hours
but that doesn't mean you're going to have a thousand people
going through. Probably maybe during the week if you get half
a dozen people or a dozen people going through there, that's a
lot of people.
Ms. Lipinski:
Right. I do understand that. Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
If the petifioner will answer a few of her questions. First, let's
talk about the lighting.
Mr. McNally:
I'll try. I took notes going through it. If I miss one, please
correct me. There were two mentions of light. One was the
headlights coming in. Again, the pharmacy is oriented such ...
Mr. LaPine:
Going west...
Mr. McNally:
Yes, vehicles will be coming in and facing this direction. There
is also the screen wall along the side, or along the property line
over in this area, the existing one. It may be in a deteriorated
state but that is something that has already been provided for.
Another item was the lighting of the site itself. We are actually
reducing the Iighfing on the site. We are eliminating one of the
existing parking lot fixtures out in this area. Everything else is
pretty much going to stay the same. Lighting in the rear of the
building is under the canopy of the pharmacy drive-through.
Mr. LaPine:
The lighting goes down.
Mr. McNally:
Correct. And the dumpster is actually located in this area here
in an enclosure as specified by the city. I believe what the
resident may be referring to is some of the freestanding
dumpsters that are out on the remainder of the parcel. Is it a
24-hour pharmacy? It is a 24-hour store. The pharmacy is not
anticipated to be staffed 24 hours.
Mr. LaPine:
And the name of somebody so she can get a hold of them and
something about when they sweep up the parking lot that it's
done at a reasonable hour.
Mr. McNally:
Again, Council was correct in as far as we don't have control
over that. It is the overall landlord, and I would be happy to
work with the staff or pass on any information we may have. I
23727
think the city's information may be better as far as, you know,
the actual entities.
Mr. La Pine: If somebody could get that information to our staff and if you call
staff in a few days, maybe he can give you some information.
Okay? Anything else? Is there any other discussion? A motion
is in order.
Mr. Wilshaw: I'll go ahead and take this one if you'd like. Lel me gel ready
here. I think this is an attractive building. We didn't talk much
about the look of the building because of all the previous
meetings, but this is very attractive building that you're
proposing. And while it's a shame that the facility over at Levan
and Five Mile will be dosed as a result, you're essentially
moving it down the road, this may present some other
opportunities for that strip mall at Five and Levan to get a new
tenant. Needless to say, I will offer an approving resolution.
On a motion by Wilshaw, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-124-2006 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-10-02-28 submitted by The Velmeir
Companies requesting waiver use approval to construct a
commercial building (CVS Pharmacy) with a drive-thru
pharmacy at 37300 Five Mile Road, located on the northeast
corner of Five Mile Road and Newburgh Road in the Southwest
1/4 of Section 17, the Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2006-10-02-28 be
approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan (Layout Plan) marked Sheet SP -1-03
prepared by Atwell -Hicks Development Consultants, dated
November 2, 2006, as revised, is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to;
2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet SP -1-04 prepared
by Atwell Hicks Development Consultants, dated
November 2, 2006, as revised, is hereby approved and
shall be adhered to, subject to the following stipulations:
- That all planted materials shall be installed to the
satisfaction of the Inspection Department and thereafter
permanently maintained in a healthy condition;
23728
-
That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of
hydroseeding;
-
That all landscaped and sodded areas shall be
provided with an automatic underground irngaton
system;
3. That the Exterior Elevations Plan marked Sheet A4.1
prepared by Atwell -Hicks Development Consultants, dated
October 18, 2006, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
4. That brick used in the construction of the building shall be
full face flinch brick, and precast masonry unit systems
shall meet ASTM 216 standards;
5. That all rooftop mechanical equipment shall be concealed
from public view on all sides by screening that shall be of a
compatible character, material and color to other exterior
materials on the building;
6. That the refuse enclosure shall be constructed of brick as
shown on the Refuse Enclosure Detail on the Site Plan,
and with steel gates which, when not in use, shall be
closed at all times;
7. That all light poles shall be a maximum of 20 feet high
including the base and all light fixtures shall be shielded to
minimize glare trespassing on adjacent properties and
roadway;
8. That the only additional lighting to be provided at the rear
(north end) of the CVS/pharmacy shall consist of lighting
beneath the canopy of the cine -through pharmacy and
that no light poles be installed;
9. Thatall parking spaces shall be double striped;
10. That the traffic lanes serving the drive -up facility shall each
be at least 12 feet in width;
11. That this approval shall incorporate the stipulation
contained in the correspondence dated October 18, 2006
from the Fire Marshal;
23729
12. That the petitioner shall secure the necessary stormwater
management permits from Wayne County, the City of
Livonia, and/or the State of Michigan;
13. That the Developer shall submit for approval an ongoing
mosquito control program, as approved by the Department
of Public Works, describing maintenance operations and
larvicide applications to the City of Livonia Inspection
Department prior to the construction of the stormwater
retenfion facility;
14. That the owner shall provide annual reports to the
Inspection Department on the maintenance and larvicide
treatments completed on the stormwater detention pond;
15. That signage for this use shall be limited to the signs
portrayed in the Sign Package prepared by Sign Art, dated
October 31, 2006, subject to any variances that may be
needed from the Zoning Board of Appeals in regard to
directional signs for the drive -up facility and any conditions
pertaining thereto. Any additional signage shall be
separately submitted for review and approval by the
Planning Commission and City Council;
16. That no LED lighlband or exposed neon shall be permitted
on this site including, but not limited to, the building or
around the windows;
17. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for; and
18. That any defects in the screening wall be repaired to the
satisfaction of the Inspection Department.
Subjecllo the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
23730
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. LaPine: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Wilshaw: For the resident's benefit, I believe those dumpster gates will be
facing westbound, so you will be looking at a brick wall
basically.
Mr. Taormina: If the maker of the motion would consider changes relative to
the wall at the rear. If it is in need of repair, that it be repaired
to the satisfaction of the Inspection Department. And then also
that the lighting on the north side of the building be limited to
lighting beneath the canopy of the drive-thru pharmacy only and
that no additional poles shall be installed at the rear of the
property.
Mr. Wilshaw: Yes, I think both those stipulations should be included.
Mr. LaPine: Is that okay with you, Ms. Smiley?
Ms. Smiley: Yes. That's fine.
Mr. LaPine: Just one thing I'd like you to consider. Take another look at that
fountain. I think it might be an advantage to have that fountain
in there.
Mr. LaPine, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution. Lel the record show that Mr. Walsh left at
11:05 please.
ITEM#10 PETITION 2006-08-03-03 PAULCAMILLERI
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2006-
08-03-03 submitted by Paul Camilleri, and pursuant to Council
Resolution #442-06, requesting to vacate the easement on the
vacated road portion of his property at 29818 Hoy, located on
the north side of Hoy Road between Melvin Avenue and
Beatrice Avenue in the Northwest % of Section 23.
23731
Mr. Taormina:
This properly is at the northeast corner of Hoy Road and Melvin
Avenue. This is Lot 111 of B.E. Taylors Green Acres
Subdivision. This is a site that includes as part of its legal
description a portion of vacated Melvin Avenue right-of-way that
lies west of and adjacent to Lot 111. A portion of this right-of-
way was vacated some years ago, and when it was vacated the
city maintained an easement for utilities over that portion of the
vacation righlotway. What Mr. Camillen would like to do is
construct an addition to his existing residence. That addition will
extend into a portion of that described easement. He'd like to
vacate that easement accordingly in order to permit the addition
to his structure. We have no objection to that. The Engineering
is supportive of that. However, they are requesting that the
westerly 10 feet of the easement be left in place for
maintenance of a gas main and storm sewer that are in close
proximity in the Melvin Avenue rightof-way. Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
Is there any correspondence, Mr. Nowak?
Mr. Nowak:
There is one item of correspondence from the Engineering
Division, dated September 27, 2006, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objection
to the proposal at this time. We would recommend that the
westerly 10 feet of the easement be left in place for
maintenance of the gas mains and storm sewers that are in
close proximity in the Melvin Avenue right-of-way. The legal
description for the vacation follows." The letter is signed by
Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. That is the extent of the
correspondence.
Mr. LaPine:
Are there any questions for the staff? Is the petitioner here this
evening? Do you have anything you'd like to add?
Paul Camilleri, 29818 Hoy, Livonia, Michigan 48154. Just that I am pulling an
addition on my home. I have a one car garage currently which I
cant park my car in there for lawn mowers and sluff. So I'd like
to expand my garage and put in a hobby room basically. I have
talked to my ... I don't see any of my neighbors here. I have
mentioned what I was doing to my neighbors. They seem to be
in agreement and that's all I have. I'll try to keep this short. My
day starts at about 3:30 in the morning every day so it's past my
bedtime.
Mr. LaPine: Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Hearing
none, the public hearing is closed. A motion is in order.
23732
On a motion by Smiley, seconded by Wilshaw, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-125-2006 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on November 14, 2006,
on Petition 2006-08-03-03 submitted by Paul Camilleri, and
pursuant to Council Resolution #442-06, requesting to vacate
the easement on the vacated road portion of his property at
29818 Hoy, located on the north side of Hoy Road between
Melvin Avenue and Beatrice Avenue in the Northwest ''/ of
Section 23, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend
to the City Council that Petition 2006-08-03-03 be approved, as
modified, so as to retain the westerly 10 feel of the easement as
recommended by the Engineering Division in their
correspondence dated September 27, 2006, for the following
reasons:
1. That the Engineering Division has no objections to the
vacating ofthe specified portion ofthe subject easement;
2. That the remaining easement area will adequately provide
for maintenance of existing public utility equipment;
3. That the portion of the easement area proposed to be
vacated can be more advantageously utilized by the
property owner if unencumbered by the easement; and
4. That no public utility company has objected to the
proposed vacating.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 12.08.030 of
the Livonia Code of Ordinances, as amended.
Mr. LaPine, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
ITEM#11 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 933'" Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 933`° Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held
on October 3, 2006.
23]33
On a motion by Morrow, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#11-126-2006 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 933" Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on October
3, 2006, are hereby approved.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Morrow, Smiley, McDermott, Wilshaw, LaPine
NAYS:
None
ABSENT:
Shane, Walsh
ABSTAIN:
None
Mr. LaPine, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 935" Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on November 14, 2006, was adjourned at
11:28 p.m.
ATTEST:
John Walsh, Chairman
CIN PLANNING COMMISSION
Carol A. Smiley, Secretary