HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2004-05-0421207
MINUTES OF THE 884th PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, May 4, 2004, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia
held its 884th Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall,
33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia, Michigan.
Mr. John Walsh, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: Robert Alanskas William LaPine R. Lee Morrow
Dan Piercecchi H. G. Shane Carol Smiley
John Walsh
Members absent: None
Messrs. Mark Taormina, Planning Director; Allen Nowak, Planner IV; Bill
Poppenger, Planner I; Ms. Debra Walter, Clerk Typist; and Ms. Marge Roney,
Program Supervisor, were also present.
Chairman Walsh informed the audience that if a petition on tonight's agenda
involves a rezoning request, this Commission makes a recommendation to the
City Council who, in tum, will hold its own public hearing and make the final
determination as to whether a petition is approved or denied. The Planning
Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for preliminary plat and/or
vacating petition. The Commission's recommendation is forwarded to the City
Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected. If
a petition requesting a waiver of use or site plan approval is denied tonight, the
petitioner has len days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City
Council. Resolutions adopted by the City Planning Commission become
effective seven (7) days after the dale of adoption. The Planning Commission
and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions upon their fling.
The staff has furnished the Commission with both approving and denying
resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the
outcome of the proceedings tonight.
ITEM #1 PETITION 200403-02-09 RITE AID
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the first item on the agenda, Petition 2004-03-
02-09, submitted by Rile Aid of Michigan, Inc. requesting waiver
use approval to utilize an SDM license in connection with an
existing drug store at 27401 Six Mile Road, located on the
southwest comer of Six Mile and Inkster Roads in the Northeast
1/4 of Section 13.
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Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated March 18, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. No additional right -0f --way
dedication is required at this time. The legal description should
exclude the South 80.00 feet." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 5, 2004, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to utilize an SDM License in
connection with an existing drug store on property located at the
above -referenced address. We have no objections to this
proposal." The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire
Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of Police, dated
April 12, 2004, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the
plans with respect to traffic, points of ingress and egress, etc.,
and have no objection to the plans as submitted." The letter is
signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 13, 2004,
which reads as follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest of March 18,
2004, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) There are two other existing SDM
licenses within 500 feet of this location, therefore a waiver from
Council will be required. (2) The light poles need exterior
refinishing. (3) The pavement needs repair at three storm drain
inlets. (4) The dumpster enclosure gate needs repair and the
immediate area needs to be cleaned up. (5) The landscape at
the Inkster Road north island needs repair and maintenance.
(6) The main entry facade over both entry doors is stained and
needs to be cleaned or refinished. This Department has no
further objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex
Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of
the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Is the petitioner here this evening? Please state your name and
address.
John B. Carlin, Jr., Plunkett & Cooney, P.C., 38505 Woodward, Suite 2000,
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 48304. I'm here on behalf of Rile
Aid.
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Mr. Walsh:
Do you have anything to add to the Planning Department's
presentation?
Mr. Carlin:
No. The Planning Department's presentation is pretty clear.
We've just asked for the right to use an SDM license at this
location similar to what all other Rile Aids have. There are
seven Rite Aids in Livonia, not including this one, that do have
SDM licenses. You have no problem with any of them.
Kroger's, CVS, all the others have SDM's. Some have SDD's
as well. We feel that it's a community service. We gel
anywhere from 10 to 20 people a day who are asking for beer
and wine in the store, and we can't give that to them. So it is a
service to our community. The store is about 10,000 square
feel. It has a significant inventory, a significant investment in
the City. Its quite a bit different from the two stores that are
next to it. The one immediately to the west is a very small party
store and then the one across the street is a supermarket. So
it's a different kind of service to the community. We would like
to be able to gel your approval and go to the Council for the
waiver use on the concentration. Rite Aid has been a good
citizen. We would like to be able to complete the service that
we have to the community, similar to all of our other locations,
CVS, and everybody else.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. LaPine:
Just one question, Mr. Carlin. I was here on the Board when we
turned down the last two requests. Can you tell me what has
changed from the last two denials that makes you believe that
there's something now that we should look at and give you the
license?
Mr. Carlin: Well, there really isn't anything, Mr. LaPine. It's just we fell that
the Planning Commission should have given us the opportunity
back then. Itdidnl. We're back to ask again. We've stayed in
the City. We've done a good job. There were issues on the
building. All of those are being corrected. Some of them have
already been corrected. We're trying to keep the property nice
to look good in the community, and we feel that the SDM would
help us be a better community business for the City.
Mr. LaPine: So basically nothing has changed. You just feel that you need
the license to make this store more viable and your customers
are asking for it.
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Mr.
Carlin:
Correct.
Mr.
LaPine:
Okay. Thankyou.
Mr.
Alanskas:
Mr. Carlin, do you happen to know roughly what percent of
sales the other stores are getting from having the SDM?
Mr.
Carlin:
Fourteen to 20 percent. This is the District Manager for Rile Aid
in charge of all the stores here in this community.
Mr.
Alanskas:
Now, is that a guess or is that actual?
Mr.
Carlin:
It would depend on which store.
Mr.
Alanskas:
Could you have this gentleman come up here to answer the
question?
Mr.
Carlin:
This is Jerry Polleck.
Jerry
Polleck,
District Manager, Rile Aid, 25355 Dequindre, Madison Heights,
Michigan 48071. I'm the District Manager for Rile Aid, and
presently I have all the Livonia stores. The answer to your
question would all depend on whether the store actually does
have an SDD/SDM license.
Mr.
Alanskas:
No. Just SDM.
Mr.
Polleck:
Just SDM?
Mr.
Alanskas:
That's what you're asking for. Yes.
Mr.
Polleck:
Probably anywhere between $2,500 to $5,000 a week.
Mr.
Alanskas:
Probably two or three percent?
Mr.
Polleck:
Probably a little bit more than that.
Mr.
Alanskas:
You said you are the manager for all the stores that you have in
Livonia?
Mr.
Polleck:
No, I'm a district manager. I look over these stores this last
year.
Mr.
Alanskas:
Could you tell me what happened to the store at Five Mile and
Merriman that closed?
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Mr. Polleck:
Lack of sales.
Mr. Alanskas:
Thank you.
Mr. Morrow:
Mr. Carlin, would you know if the existing SDM's in that area
were existing at the time that the drugstore was built?
Mr. Carlin:
Our drugstore was built?
Mr. Morrow:
Yes. In other words, were there existing SDM's in the area
when you went in there?
Mr. Carlin:
That I really don't know.
Mr. Walsh:
They did pre -dale the construction.
Mr. Carlin:
The store was built in about 1997 I'm told.
Mr. Walsh:
The two existing facilities did pre -date the construction.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. I'm getting the information. The only concern I have
about this
petition - I wasn't here for the other two - but I was on
the Commission
when you got the approval to build the building.
Its a case where it's against our ordinance and its kind of
difficult to go against our ordinance unless there is a real
demand in the area. It appears to be well served.
Mr. Carlin:
Well, I know, Mr. Morrow, that it is against the ordinance, and
I've been in front of you and the Council for many years, many
times, and that waiver has been granted by Council on many
occasions for the close proximity of both restaurants and stores.
I do think that there is a demand by the residents of that area.
This is the only full service pharmacy in close proximity. They
do serve a small area, not a large one. These people are there
and they are asking for that service. It would be good for us to
have it naturally, but I think it would also be good for the
residents. And that's why we're here asking.
Mr. Morrow:
Well, don't construe my remarks as anything against Rite Aid
per se. I think they run a fine operation here in the City. It's just
this SDM I'm speaking to.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition?
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Jay Nannoshi, Owner, Trade Vine, 27455 Six Mile Road, Livonia, Michigan. I
oppose this subject that Rite Aid have a beer and wine for too
many reasons. The two buildings are too close to each other,
which is Rile Ad and Trade Vine, which is approximately like
you just said, i's 150 feel. Whoever needs any beer and wine
and liquor, it's loo close, plus we share the same parking lot.
You can go back and forth. It is not necessary to have another
one in there. If we look at the history of that corner, whenever
there is three beer and wine and liquor, just give it time, and one
of them will just go out of business. That's it. If you look at 20
years ago, 25 years ago, if you put three beer and wine and
liquor in there, one won't Iasi. And we all know that the small
business owners are always the victims because the big
corporations are always on lop of it. In the meantime, before
they built, they didn't want no beer or wine or liquor like he
mentioned right now. So after that, they keep applying and
applying, but the distance is loo close to both of us to have two
same licenses to serve the community. I have been serving the
community for 23 years with a good service and everything. I
thank you.
Terry Faride, Owner, Value Center Market, 27428 W. Six Mile Road, Livonia
Michigan 48152. This is my third time here. I fought this in
1997; 1 fought this in 1999. We own three supermarkets and
our primary business is the grocery business, and our beer and
wine sales on that corner are less than 5%. We're right across
the street. At the time when Rite Aid came in, Howard's Drags
ended up going out of business. We own the property there
also and we had a choice of taking their liquor license and
opening up a liquor store right next door to our supermarket of
which we elected to sell it to Trade Vine across the street so
that there would only be two licenses on the corner. We ended
up leasing that out to Hollywood Video. Our business, again, is
a supermarket business. Less than 5% of our sales is beer and
wine, so there's really, we feel, no need for another beer and
wine license on that corner. Trade Vine's business is liquor,
beer and wine and that's really all he does, where Rile Aid is a
pharmacy and a drug store. I'm also a partner in development
in southeastern Michigan and we've developed three or four
Walgreen's. If you look at the Walgreen stores across the state,
they elect to put no beer, wine or alcohol in their stores at all.
We fought this two other times. We're here again tonight, and
we'd like to not have them get beer and wine there. Thank you
very much.
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Mr. Walsh:
Thank you for coming this evening. Is there anybody else in the
audience that would like to speak for or against this petdion?
Mr. Carlin, you have the last word.
Mr. Carlin:
Naturally, we respect the opposition, but it's always the case of
the haves versus the have nots, and they'd like to keep us out of
the business. Mr. LaPine, I did think that there is a difference
between the last times we were here for the SDM. At that time,
it was also an application for an SDD. So that is a little bit
different. We're not asking for the SDD at this time. Again,
we'd like to be able to serve the community. Our competition all
around us has SDM's. We'd like to be able to provide the same
service. The community is used to it, and we can't do it. So we
would hope that you will give us an affirmative vole and allow us
to go to Council.
Mr. Walsh:
If there are no further questions or comments from the
Commission, I'm going to close the public hearing. A motion is
in order.
On a motion by LaPine, seconded by Pieroecchi, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#05-51-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-09 submitted by Rile Aid of Michigan, Inc.
requesting waiver use approval to utilize an SDM license in
connection with an existing drug store at 27401 Six Mile Road,
located on the southwest corner of Six Mile and Inkster Roads
in the Northeast 114 of Section 13, the Planning Commission
does hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-
03-02-09 be denied for the following reasons:
1. That the petitioner has failed to affirmatively show that the
proposed use of an SDM license is in compliance with all
of the special and general waiver use standards and
requirements as set forth in Section 11.03 and 19.06 of the
Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the proposed use fails to comply with the Zoning
Ordinance standard set forth in Section 11.03(r)(1) with
respect to the requirement that there be at least a 500 foot
separation between SDM licensed establishments;
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3. That this area of the City is currently well served with SDM
licensed establishments selling packaged alcoholic
beverages; and
4. That the petitioner has not sufficiently demonstrated a
need in the area for additional sales of packaged alcoholic
beverages such as are permitted by the utilization of an
SDM license.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted. The petitioner has ten days to appeal the decision to
the City Council in writing.
ITEM #2 PETMON 200403-02-10 KICKERS
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-10, submitted by Kickers All American Grill requesting to
construct an open air patio and increase the number of
customer seats at an existing full service restaurant at 36071
Plymouth Road, located on the south side of Plymouth Road
between Levan Road and Yale Avenue in the Northeast'''/ of
Section 32.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 1, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required. We noted that it appears that a portion of the
petitioner's private storm sewer will be under the proposed
patio. We wished to bring this to the owner's attention. The
legal description is approved for this waiver use petition." The
letter is signed by Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The
second letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated
April 5, 2004, which reads as follows: "This office has reviewed
the site plan submitted in connection with a request to construct
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an open air patio and increase the number of customer seats at
an existing full service restaurant on property located at the
above -referenced address. We have no objections to this
proposal." The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire
Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated April 21, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuantto your
request of March 24, 2004, the above -referenced petition has
been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) Per Zoning Board of
Appeals variance 9511-152 granted November 14, 1995, no
ground sign is allowed on this site. (2) This Department will
need a full seating plan/egress plan for the entire restaurant for
review should this proposal be approved. (3) The landscaping
appears to be slightly deficient of the required 15%. (4) This
site requires 182 parking spaces. (303 seats =152 spaces + 30
employees = 182 spaces) As there are 142 spaces on site, they
are deficient 40 spaces. They will either need a valid cross
parking agreement with a site with excess spaces or a variance
from the Zoning Board of Appeals for deficient parking. (5) The
parking lot needs maintenance repair and resealing. Repair is
needed along rear (south) storm drain line and inlets. (6) There
are three parking spaces at the northeast corner of the parking
lot that are not detailed on the plans. If that area were to tum
into landscaping, then parking blocks would not be required.
This Department has no further objections to this petition." The
letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection.
That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Is the petitioner here this evening?
Salem F. Samaan, Esq., 150 North Main Street, Plymouth, Michigan 48170.
Good evening. I am the attorney for Kickers. With me is Pete
Sloyanovich, who is the President of Kickers, and also Paul
Tangora, the architect. We're here to answer any questions that
the Commission may have with respect to these plans.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. Piercecchi:
Sir, with this new four year lease agreement, I'm looking at your
Exhibit A, and it looks like there's about 40 spaces available for
your use during peak hours?
Mr. Samaan:
That is correct.
Mr. Piercecchi:
So then you'll have roughly 190?
Mr. Samaan:
That is correct.
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Mr. Alanskas:
On your outside patio, are you planning on having any outside
speakers or music.
Mr. Samaan:
Absolutely not.
Mr. Alanskas:
Okay. The reason why I ask is because I'm sure, as Pete
knows I've been there quite often, and in your bar area you
have a very young crowd. I'm sure you'll be having a lot of
those people going on the patio in the summer months. I just
want to make sure there's not a noise problem because you do
have neighbors to the south. I just want to make sure there will
be no speakers, no music. What hours will your patio be open?
Pete Stoyanovich, Kickers All American Grill, 36071 Plymouth Road, Livonia,
Michigan 48150. Just to reassure everything, let's not confuse
the patio with the bar. It is an extension off the dining room. I
am going to keep it for dining purposes. I don't plan on having
people out there if there are no seals available to sit down and
have dinner or drinks. People will not be permitted out there to
stand around and hang out.
Mr. Alanskas:
And have a beer or something?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Absolutely. They will not be permitted if there's no sealing
available out there.
Mr. Alanskas:
Question number two, because of the lighting you're going to
have, it can draw mosquitoes. We have a problem with the
West Nile Virus. What are you going to doto have no problems
with mosquitoes when people are out there eating?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Well, I'll do whatever it takes. Whatever we have to do, I'm sure
we'll do it.
Mr. Alanskas:
You'll put some citronella out there or something?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Absolutely. Whatever it takes.
Mr. Alanskas:
Because that could be a big problem also.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
And we will take care of R.
Mr. Alanskas:
In regards to your landscaping, I know you're a Iittie deficient,
but you do a fantastic job. It looks great, and that's a nice
project.
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Mr. Stoyanovich:
Thank you.
Mr. Morrow:
The Inspection Department made reference to six spaces that
weren't clearly idenfified. Could you clear that up for us? They
were talking about maybe turning it into landscaping or putting it
on the plan. I'm not really sure what they meant by that.
Mr. Walsh:
Mark, could you give us a little guidance on that?
Mr. Taormina:
I'm not aware of the six. I am aware of three parking spaces
that are located in the northeast comer of the properly that are
not shown on the site plan. There was a little confusion on the
part of the Inspection Department as to whether or not those
spaces were going to be removed and replaced with
landscaping, or whether they would remain. If they are to
remain, they do require parking blocks since they are adjacent
to the public walkway along Plymouth Road. Those are three
spaces. I'm not sure where the other three are located.
Mr. Morrow:
Did Inspection make reference to six or did they say three? Did
I miss it?
Mr. Taormina:
Three.
Mr. Morrow:
They said three? Then I wrote the wrong number down.
Anyway, that will be converted to parking?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
It is parking right now and if it requires parking blocks, I'm sure
we'll take care of it.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. Good.
Mr. LaPine:
In the rear of the building at one time you had a patio out there.
Did you not?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
That is correct.
Mr. LaPine:
And then you enclosed that. When that was out there, was it a
very viable operation?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
The patio did very well for us, but I think that the conversion that
was made has panned out to be more successful that the patio
we had in the past. Although today, even over the last three
years, we still have had quite a demand for outdoor seating in
the summer. Business does tend to slow down in the
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summertime and people do like to sit outside. We've had quite
a demand for it.
Mr. LaPine:
Basicallythe outside is not going to be for people just wailing for
tables inside. You're actually going to serve meals out there.
This is additional seating.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
For the dining room. That is correct.
Mr. LaPine:
If this generates additional business, and during the winter
months when it's closed, you're going to have additional people
who want to come here, and there's no seating outside. So
you're losing the seals you have out here. Is that going to be a
hindrance to your business?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
No, I don't believe so.
Mr. LaPine:
I have a question about your freestanding sign out front. How
tall are the letters going to be where you announce the coming
attractions?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
The lettering you see on the sign there is going to be
interchangeable due to the variety of comedians that come
through and the special events that lake place. It is standard
eight inch interchangeable lettering. The "Kickers Complex" -
you can disregard the "Complex." That was just thrown in there.
We were just kind of toying around with that a little bit. You can
avoid that. The "Kickers" sign itself will be free-standing and the
lettering on that will probably be anywhere from, I'm guessing,
eight to twelve inches.
Mr. LaPine:
You say "Kickers" is going to be freestanding. "Kickers" is going
to take the whole area where the "Complex" is?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Correct.
Mr. LaPine:
But it will all be part of the overall sign.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
That is correct.
Mr. Samaan:
Justto answerthe question further, the lettering below "Kickers"
is going to be smaller actually than the letters for "Kickers" It's
going to be much smaller.
Mr. LaPine:
I assume it is. Will you have Thursday, Friday and Saturday
attractions up there?
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Mr. Stoyanovich:
Yes. We will have coming attractions and we will have specials
and other events that take place at the restaurant.
Mr. LaPine:
Just one more question. The only problem I have with your
proposal is that I hate to see all that landscape going between
the sidewalk and your building. It's very tastefully done, really
nice. Now, when you lake all that landscaping out of there, are
you moving it to another location on the properly?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
We will move the landscaping that is presently there to a
different location on the premises, and we will beautify it even
more so.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Smiley:
My question was about those three parking spots. If you don't
need them, if you're at 190 and you need 182, maybe that
would be a good place for some landscaping. You don't need
them anyways, and that's facing right on Plymouth Road.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
We could convert it back to landscaping or, as required, we can
install some parking blocks loo. Whatever. It doesn't matter to
us as long as we have sufficient parking spots. That's the
concern.
Ms. Smiley:
Okay. My other question was, to gel out there, you have to go
into the restaurant and then you'll go out there to eat?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Correct. You will go through the dining room to get to the patio.
Ms. Smiley:
Because there was some question about egress in the event
you had a fire or something like that.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
There are two fire exit doors immediately inside the dining room,
the last part of the dining room. I'm guessing if there is a fire, I
don't think most people will come back into the restaurant al that
point, but there are two fire exit doors there.
Mr. Samaan:
They are immediately adjacent to the doors that lead into the
patio on either side ofthe building.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
They are on both sides.
Ms. Smiley:
Okay. So they could gel back in to gel out.
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Mr. Stoyanovich:
Absolutely. The doors are immediately to the right and left - the
fire exits are right there.
Mr. Morrow:
What is the height ofthe fence?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
I believe it's going to be standard four -foot aluminum fence. I
think we're going to install either aluminum or wrought iron. We
haven't decided on that yet.
Mr. Morrow:
That's not very high.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
It will be about four or four and half feel, high enough but you
still want a nice view there.
Mr. Alanskas:
Where your dumpster is, I'm sure you have a grease catch
basin where you catch all your grease?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
In the back by the dumpsters?
Mr. Alanskas:
Yes. Do you have one outside?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
I dont believe we do.
Mr. Alanskas:
Okay. I was just wondering what your maintenance was if you
had one, but you don't have one.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
I dont believe we do.
Mr. Alanskas:
Okay. Thankyou.
Mr. Walsh:
Are them any olherqueslions from the commissioners? Is there
anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this
petition?
Robert Oppenlander, 35824 Elmira, Livonia, Michigan 48150. I'm neither for nor
against. I have one concern, though, and that is with the refuse.
The containers with closing lops are left open and that leaves
an odor going south. If those containers could be moved closer
to the building, and being that there's going to be more people,
that means there's going to be more refuse left over. This
presents a problem. Another problem, I don't know if it would
be with Kickers or what itwould be with, in the summertime or in
the warm weather, cans as well as beer bottles are thrown over
the fence, the brick wall. The beer bottles land on the street, on
Elmira. That presents a problem. I walk a dog along there
every morning. When I gel through, there have been occasions
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when I've gone down to clean up the road. This presents a
problem for the people living on Elmira. Thank you.
Mr. Alanskas:
You say that's only in the summer months?
Mr. Oppenlander.
This is primarily in the warm weather that this takes place.
People do hang out in the parking lot, and in the warm weather,
on occasion, they do carry on in the parking lot.
Mr. Alanskas:
But its not like atter 2:00 in the morning?
Mr. Oppenlander.
Well, it gets fairly late. It's after midnight. Not always do I walk
the dog that late, but on occasion, if I go out, the dog wants to
gel out also.
Mr. Alanskas:
Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. Samaan, you had a comment you wanted to make?
Mr. Samaan:
The issue about bottles - Kickers does not serve carry out, so if
there's an issue with bottles and cans being thrown on the
street, it did not come from Kickers because they do not serve
carryouts. Everything is consumed on the premises.
Mr. Walsh:
And you do not permit a customer to leave with a bottle or
glass?
Mr. Samaan:
Absolutely not.
Mr. LaPine:
How do you police somebody walking out the door with a bottle
in his pocket?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
We have very tight security all week. On the weekends, it's
heightened, and it's very strict. We do have two to three
bouncers still at the door all evening long to prevent any bottles
coming in or any bottles going out.
Mr. LaPine:
I don't believe the gentleman is making up the statement.
Maybe it isn't coming from you, but if R's being thrown over the
wall, we have to assume its coming from your establishment. I
don't particularly drink, so I don't know how bars operate, but I
know its very simple to stick a bottle in your pocket and walk
out.
21222
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Quite honestly, I couldn't tell you. It's just as simple
as
somebody carrying a six pack in their vehicle too and pulling
out
a bottle.
Mr. LaPine:
Maybe what the solution is, it probably only happens on the
weekends, I would assume. Maybe one of your people in the
morning could just take a walk around or look around.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
We do have a cleaning department that does clean the
premises every single day.
Mr. Morrow:
Along that same vein, whether they come from your place or in
a vehicle, I think the key words you spoke is that there are three
bouncers. If they could be aware of any parties beginning to
manifest themselves in the parking lot, if they could just politely
tell the people that they'd like to break this up because of the
neighbors, and this type of thing.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Absolutely.
Mr. Morrow:
Just be aware of that situation.
Mr. Stoyanovich:
We are very respectful of the neighbors and we do try to get
people out as quick as possible and out of the parking lot as
quick as possible because we do respect our neighbors.
Mr. Morrow:
He mentioned the open dumpsters. Be mindful of keeping the
lids closed. Take him at his word.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody else in the audience?
Flora Norville,
35925 Leon, Livonia, Michigan 48150. 1 live behind Kickers.
When they had the patio out there before, you could hear the
noise two or three blocks over because I would be out for a walk
and you could hear the loudspeaker all over the neighborhood.
So I just want to understand that they say they're not going to
have a speaker.
Mr. Walsh:
Is that correct?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
That's correct.
Mr. Walsh:
They are saying there will be no speaker outside.
Ms. Norville:
Okay.
21223
Mr. Walsh: Is there anybody else in the audience? Seeing no one, I'm
going to offer Mr. Samaan the last opportunity to speak as the
petitioner. Is there anything else to add?
Mr. Samaan: I think we've answered all the questions. Again, this is different
than the patio before. The last patio abutted the bar. This one
abuts the dining room. It's a completely different patio, and I
think it's something that will add to the restaurant and to the
service the restaurant can give to the community.
On a motion by Morrow, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-52-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-10, submitted by Kickers All American Gn11
requesting to construct an open air patio and increase the
number of customer seats at an existing full service restaurant
at 36071 Plymouth Road, located on the south side of Plymouth
Road between Levan Road and Yale Avenue in the Northeast %
of Section 32, the Planning Commission does hereby
recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-03-02-10 be
approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet SP -1 dated March 18,
2004, as revised, prepared by Spartan Design Group, Inc.,
is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2. That the Patio Floor Plan, marked Sheet A-1 and Sealing
Plan, marked Sheet Al -A, both dated March 18, 2004, as
revised, prepared by Spartan Design Group, Inc., are
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
3. That the Elevations Plan marked Sheet A-2 dated March
18, 2004, as revised, prepared by Spartan Design Group,
Inc., is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
4. That the maximum number of customer seals on the
outdoor patio shall not exceed 28;
5. That this approval is subject to the petitioner obtaining a
variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for deficient
number of parking spaces;
6. That prior to the Zoning Board of Appeals hearing the case
involving the parking variance, the petitioner shall renew
21224
the lease agreement with LA Plaza, Inc. for a term of not
less than four (4) years;
7. That the petitioner shall provide the City with a letter of
understanding stipulating that in the event the parking
agreement with LA Plaza is cancelled or not renewed, the
waiver use under this petition will be null and void and the
petitioner shall immediately close the outdoor patio;
8. That the aforementioned letter of understanding shall be
recorded with Wayne County and shall be binding upon all
future successors and assigns of the petitioner;
9. That the Signage Elevation Plan dated March 18, 2004, as
revised, prepared by Spartan Design Group, Inc., is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to, subject to the approval
of the Zoning Board of Appeals;
10. That the petitioner shall submit a full sealing plan/egress
plan for the entire restaurant and outdoor patio to the
Inspection Department for its review and approval in
connection with the building permit;
11. That the petitioner shall make the necessary repairs to the
parking lot and rear (south) storm drain line and inlets to
the satisfaction of the Inspection Department;
12. That the three (3) parking spaces located in the northeast
corner of the site shall be replaced with landscaping,
subject to the approval of the Zoning Board of Appeals;
otherwise, the petitioner shall install parking blocks;
13. That outside speakers shall be prohibited anywhere on the
site; and
14 That the specific plan referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
for their review prior to the issuance of a Certificate of
Occupancy.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
21225
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Morrow: Regarding Condition 5, 1 think with this new lease agreement,
we no longer will have deficient parking.
Mr. Taormina: If I may clarify that. The variance is still required.
Mr. Morrow: Okay. Thankyou.
Ms. Smiley: Can I add on Condition 12, that if he doesn't want to use those
three spaces for parking, that he could landscape there?
Mr. Morrow : I would have no objection to that if the petitioner wants to make
that commitment.
Mr. Stoyanovich: If the parking spots are not necessary, then we'd be more than
happy to landscape it.
Ms. Smiley: I just want you to have the option if you'd like to do additional
landscaping in those three spots instead of blocking them.
Mr. Stoyanovich: That's not a problem.
Mr. Walsh: Mr. Morrow, is that acceptable?
Mr. Morrow : Yes. Does that affect our parking?
Mr. Taormina: That would be subject to the approval of the Zoning Board of
Appeals, so it wouldn't be binding on the site plan unless
approved by the ZBA.
Ms. Smiley: Okay. Good.
Mr. Morrow : Shall we leave it the way it was read?
21226
Mr. Walsh:
I think we will leave it the way it's written.
Mr. Morrow:
If he decides to do something, he will take it to the ZBA.
Mr. Shane:
To the maker ofthe motion, I wonder if he would add a condition
that would prohibit outside speakers anywhere on the site?
Mr. Walsh:
Is that acceptable to the maker of the motion?
Mr. Morrow:
That's certainly acceptable because they indicated that they
would not have one. That's a good catch.
Mr. LaPine:
Two things. On Condition 9 where it talks about the revised
signage, will the revised signage show that it will no longer be
'Kickers Complex,' just "Kickers"?
Mr. Stoyanovich:
Just "Kickers" That's correct.
Mr. LaPine:
So you would have to have a revised site plan for that, would
you not?
Mr. Taormina:
He can do that prior to the Council meeting.
Mr. LaPine:
Mark, the second question I have is, do we have 15% of
landscaping?
Mr. Taormina:
If he replaces those three parking stalls with landscaping, it will
be very close to 15%.
Mr. LaPine:
I'd like to see him get as close as possible to 15%. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #3 PETITION 2004-03-02-11 MITCHELL'S FISH MARKET
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-11, submitted by Cameron Mitchell Restaurants, LLC,
requesting waiver use approval to construct and operate a ful4
service free-standing restaurant at 17600 Haggerty, located on
the east side of Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and
Seven Mile Road in the Southwest % of Section 7.
21227
Mr. Walsh: Ladies and gentlemen, before we move on to Item 3, I'm going
to note I will be stepping down for Items 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. 1
am an employee of Schoolcmft College, and the next petitions
all take place with properly that is being leased from
Schoolcraft. So with that, I'm going to pass the gavel to Mr.
Alanskas.
Mr. Taormina stated that his comments will address Petition 2004-03-02-11 as
well as Petition 2004-03-02-12, also presented by Mitchell's
Restaurant, in connection with the request for a Class C liquor
license. A map was presented showing the property under
petition plus the existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mark Knauer, President, Knauer Incorporated, 720 N. Waukegan Road, Suite
200, Deerfield, Illinois 60015. We are architects and designers
for Mitchell's Fish Markel. Mitchell's Fish Markel, first of all, is
very excited to come to Livonia. What I'd like to do is show you
a few slides, some of which are right from your packet. You
already know the site; that was gone over by Mark. The
building is 8,160 square feet on a site that was originally
planned for 8,800 square feel, so what we've done is down-
sized the building approximately 10% to meet our design
prototype. Adjacent to the building, or if you would draw a line
to the west and then to the south and as well to the east, we
have 55 parking spaces adjacent to our building, and then an
additional 84 spaces right behind the building, for a total of 139
spaces that would service just our site. Seeing that these
restaurants are all together, there will be some mix of parking
between all of those restaurants as well as to the north, a valet
area. As Mark said, there are 290 seats approximately inside
the restaurant; 88 seats outside, and we anticipate about 30
employees per shift to service the restaurant. It's a full service
restaurant. The south and north elevations are the ones you
see here on this slide. The building is a brick building,
predominately brick. I brought the brick with me so that you
could lake a look al that. This is probably the closest look you'll
gel until you walk up to it. The base of the building would be a
precast stone to resemble limestone, and then a cap on the
building which would be a stucco material or EIFS as it's called,
but it's a very small strip along the top of the building itself. This
is the rear of the building or the east, as well as the west of the
building facing the road, and you can see all sides of the
building would be decorated. The building actually sits as an
island with a portion of it adjacent to the Bravo restaurant next
door, which you will see later. We are proposing on the building
to have two decorative wall art paintings. We've done this on
21228
other buildings, one in Lansing, one just recently in
Westchester, Ohio. They've been very successful and are quite
beautiful. The paintings are to give the building a vintage look.
One would be a lobster, and the other would be a fish. This is
what it looks like in Westchester. It's antiqued to have a vintage
look as I just said. This happens to be a sample of the same
brick as well as the stone base. The signage on the building -
we're proposing two signs at the entrance: one facing the
entrance road as well as one facing the main street. Each one
of those signs is 7' by 10', 70 square feel each, a total of 140
square feel. Additionally, we are proposing to put modesty
panels in the glazing around the perimeter of the restaurant.
You can see that what we would like to do is intermix a fish,
which is an icon we use in all of our logo and signage, as well
as words that depict the menu that give us an identity of a fish
market itself. A lot ofthis will be behind landscaping, behind the
seating area and at a lower level, very pedestrian level, as
opposed to the signage that's high on the building. These are
the other two elevations so that you can see the relative signage
there. This is a detail or a blow up of the 70 square foot
illuminated Mitchell's sign box. The letters are the only thing
that illuminates here. You can see how it's a punch through
letter, internally illuminated, and the black that you saw on the
previous slide is all non -illuminated. There would be a menu
board at the entrance so the people know what we're serving.
This is a sample of the modesty panel and it's approximate size.
They do vary slightly, although they're the same height. The
widths do vary and, of course, the lettering would change
around the building. On the doors themselves to identify the
entrance, we would like to apply signage, and this is a sample of
that sign. On the exterior of the restaurant, you'll recall
hopefully from the elevations, that we would like to have lighting
over the outdoor sealing area, and this is the light we are
proposing. It is a galvanized domed string light, and this is the
detail of it. The illumination is dim but gives an overall
illumination so people can see what they're eating and drinking.
This is the post light around the perimeter of the restaurant that
would, again, light the walkways and is in keeping of the fish
market concept. On the building itself, we have awnings and
we'd like to illuminate those awnings. The light source is a
50MR16 lamp. It's a relatively dim light, although it does give
some illumination over the awnings. Around the perimeter of
the outside dining area, we're looking at using terra cotta pots.
This is the outdoor patio chair, table, and a railing to confine or
define the space so that we don't have people entering the
outdoor dining from the outside. We have them entering from
21229
the inside so we can control that space. I think that's it. I'd be
happy to answer any questions.
Mr. Alanskas: We haven't heard the correspondence yet. Would you please
read the correspondence, Mr. Nowak?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated March 30, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description is approved for use
with this waiver use petition." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2004, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to construct a fullservice free
standing restaurant on property located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest X of Section 7. We have no objections to this
proposal with the following stipulations. (1) If subject building(s)
are to be provided with an automatic sprinkler system, a hydrant
shall be located between 50 feet and 100 feet from the Fire
Department connection; (2) Hydrant spacing in the
commercial/retail groupings shall be consistent with City of
Livonia Ordinances; (3) Any curves or corner of streets shall
accommodate emergency vehicles with a turning radius of 63
feet wall-to-wall. (4) Fire lanes shall be marked with
freestanding signs or marked curbs, sidewalks, or other traffic
surfaces that have the words 'Fire Lane - No Parking' painted in
contrasting colors at a size and spacing approved by the
authority having jurisdiction." The letter is signed by Randall D.
Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of
Police, dated April 16, 2004, which reads as follows: We have
reviewed the plans in regards to the proposal to construct a full-
service freestanding restaurant. Our calculations indicate that
188 parking spaces are required for this business. It is our
concern that there may be insufficient parking for this complex
as a whole. We recommend that the handicap spaces be
moved closer to the doors of the restaurant, each space must
be individually posted. We also recommend that sidewalk cuts
for handicap access be required." The letter is signed by
Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is
from the Inspection Department, dated April 13, 2004, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 25, 2004,
the above-referencedpetition has been reviewed. The following
21230
is noted. (1) This petition will require approximately 210 parking
spaces (188 for patrons, 22 for employees). Itis unclear if 210
spaces are dedicated for this site. All parking is to be double
striped. (2) The barrier free parking needs to be shifted closer
to the front entry. A total of spaces (2 additional) are required.
Moreover, then; should be a blue marked crossing aisle from
the barrier free parking to the dedicated ramp or crossway. (3)
The following items will be addressed at our Department's
building plan review and are put forth for information: (a) The
employee restroom does not meet the Barrier Free Code as to
layout and size. (b) Required exits may not have a path through
a kitchen. It appears that another exit will be required to satisfy
minimum exiting requirements. (c) A second exit from the patio
area will be required, somewhere in the area of the Bocce patio.
(4) Signage has not been reviewed. It appears this petitioner
may be proposing an excessive amount of wall signs and
square footage. One wall sign on the west elevation of 81
square feet would be allowed. Other wall signage would require
a zoning variance. This Department has no further objections to
this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Alanskas:
Are there any questions for this gentleman?
Mr. LaPine:
I have a couple questions. Mr. Morrow and I were out to your
restaurant in Birmingham. The awnings on that building are
black, and I assume they're going to be black on this building.
Is that conect?
Mr. Knauer:
That's correct.
Mr. LaPine:
I didn't notice those Iighlfxlures that come down. Were they on
that building?
Mr. Knauer:
They are not on that building. That's not our building. We are a
tenant in that building. Our preference would be to have them
but on that particular building, those black awnings are actually
the building awnings.
Mr. LaPine:
That answers my question because I knew the building didn't
look like that. We knew that before we went out there. Also on
that building, I didn't notice a menu sign outside the building as
you walk in the front two doors. It was on the inside there. Is
that conect?
Mr. Knauer:
That's correct.
21231
Mr. LaPine:
Okay, so it isn't on the outside. For this building, it's going to be
on the outside of the building. Is that correct?
Mr. Knauer:
Correct.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. The inside of that building in Birmingham is beautiful.
Mr. Knauer:
Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
What I want to know is, are we going to gel that exact same
building here, same materials, same layout, high class like it is
there?
Mr. Knauer:
No. Yours is going to be nicer.
Mr. LaPine:
Well, let's hope so. We happened to talk to Mark Weiss, who's
the manager there. He was very,
very accommodating to us.
Its a beautiful building. I mean I just
can't say enough about R.
I was really taken by it.
Mr. Knauer:
The good news here, if I may, is that this building is designed
specifically for Mitchell's Fish Markel. The layout will be even
better, and all of it will work better for us. We shoehorned this
restaurant into that building in Birmingham. So it will be even
better.
Mr. LaPine:
You've got the circular bar. You've got that beautiful landscape
drawing and all the fish on the wall, lights that look like port
holes. I think the people of Livonia are going to be really
amazed. Now the other question I had, I noticed on the building
here you're going to have the little signs that say lobster, etc.,
on the bottom. On their building, they were in the window with
the fish and then the signs.
Mr. Knauer:
That's right.
Mr. LaPine:
I guess that's all I have. If it turns out anything like that building
in Birmingham, I'll be more than happy to grant your approval to
come into Livonia.
Mr. Shane:
Where are your mechanical units located? Will they be on the
roof?
Mr. Knauer:
On the rooftop and screened with a parapet wall.
21232
Mr. Shane:
Totally screened from all sides?
Mr. Knauer:
Totally screened from all sides.
Mr. Morrow:
As far as that lobster and the fish on the building - that picture
you show up there - was that a live picture? I mean was that an
actual photograph?
Mr. Knauer:
Yes, it was.
Mr. Morrow:
We had requested, if possible, a picture of the one in Lansing
because it was described to us as painted in black and then
etched down. In my mind, I was trying to figure out if that is a
sign or is that a part of architectural license. I can't really tell
from looking at that picture. It doesn't look very artistic.
Mr. Knauer:
We're getting better at it, by the way. I would not like to use
Lansing as the benchmark. I would like to use what we're
showing you here, which is what we just did in Westchester,
which is a lot finer. The idea is, and its taken from an old
market in Columbus, Ohio, actually, where there is art painted
on the building and it looks like its weathered off over time. And
this will weather even more over time, but this photo that is up
there now, is a fairly good depiction. It is a snapshot with
available light so it's not perfect by any means, but it does give
you an idea of what it would look like.
Mr. Morrow:
I guess I built up a picture in my mind and that wasn't what I
came up with.
Mr. Knauer:
Hopefully, it's better.
Mr. Morrow:
I was hoping it had been weathered a little bit more.
Mr. Knauer:
We can weather it more.
Mr. Morrow:
Well, no, that's arohileclural, but I was curious.
Ms.Smiley:
Really this question is for Mark. Is the fish icon considered
signage?
Mr. Taormina:
I think in this context it will be considered signage. We are
including it in the overall sign package. There is some question
whether or not all of the other details that were presented by the
architect this evening will be considered signage. I don't believe
they will be. To the extent that these icons and signs would be
21233
visible from the adjacent public thoroughfares, they will be
considered part of the sign package. But some of the things,
like the menus on the side of the building, as well as some of
the artwork on the doors, that will probably be excluded from the
computation for signage.
Ms. Smiley:
I'm talking about those little fish down there on the bottom, fish
martini.
Mr. Taormina:
I think the ones on the upper part of the awning will be because
they will be visible from offsite. I'm not sure yet on the panels
on the lower part of the building. That's something that we will
have to discuss with the Building Inspection
Department. I think
if you look back at other similar pefilions,
those types of signs
have been included within the definitions of the ordinance.
Ms. Smiley:
I personally don't have a problem with them. Again, R's
personal, but I think it's the charm to the building, much like the
Claddaugh restaurant.
Mr. Alanskas:
On the string lighting, what is the wattage on those lights? You
say its very low light.
Mr. Knauer:
I was hoping no one would ask me that question. I don't
remember. Itis interchangeable. Itis a medium base socket so
we can control that light, but I'm guessing that it's somewhere
like 15 - 20 watts and I think we use a very long life lamp in it.
Its a 20 watt S12, I think. But I'm guessing. I don't know
specifically.
Mr. Alanskas:
If it's 20 watts, how many lights do you have on a string,
roughly? A couple hundred?
Mr. Knauer:
No, probably between there and the building, maybe six, 120
watts per string, and there's a plan. I don't recall how many
there are.
Mr. Alanskas:
Are you going to have outside speakers on your patio?
Mr. Knauer:
We are.
Mr. Alanskas:
You are. And what decibels are you going to keep that al?
Mr. Knauer:
Well, the music, if you've been to the restaurant, which some of
you seem to have been, is background music. It is just that -
background music. So the same music that's played inside the
21234
restaurant would be played outside and at the same level. In
terms of decibels, I can't give you exactly what it is.
Mr. Alanskas:
Usually a speaking decibel is around 85.
Mr. Knauer:
I think that would be a lot.
Mr. Alanskas:
I think that's what we keep most of our restaurant chains and
speakers at.
Mr. Knauer:
We would be happy to keep it within 85 decibels.
Mr. Alanskas:
Also, what are your patio hours going to be out there?
Mr. Knauer:
The same hours as the hours of operation of the restaurant.
Mr. Alanskas:
Which are?
Mr. Knauer:
Eleven to 10, except for Friday and Saturday, and then its 11 to
11.
Mr. Alanskas:
Also, like before, is your outside patio for dining only or can
people sit out there and just have a drink if they want?
Mr. Knauer:
It is dining only. I suspect someone could, if they really wanted
to, have a drink out there, but it is sealed like the restaurant.
The bar is not seated itself, but the patio and dining room are
seated by the hostess.
Mr. LaPine:
Gelling back to the background music, are we talking about a
band or a piano player? What are we going to have?
Mr. Knauer:
Its interesting. That's one of the things we're actually working
on right now is to have better music. But it has been sort of a
range from just soft jazz to Frank Sinatra.
Mr. Alanskas:
There's nothing wrong with that.
Mr. LaPine:
As long as you don't have that music that I can't hear and
understand what they're saying. One other question: I noticed
in the restaurant, you had the little place where you sell the fish
to take home with you, which was done very, very nicely.
Would that be about the same size as the one lhalwill be at this
location?
Mr. Knauer:
Identically sized. Yes.
21235
Mr. LaPine: It was very tastefully done. Verynice.
Mr. Knauer: And people will be able to come in, buy fish and take it home.
Mr. LaPine: Not only that, but he told us that if people want to have it cooked
there and then take it home, they could do that or cook it
themselves.
Mr. Knauer: That's correct.
Mr. Alanskas: In regards to the hot summer months, do you have any
Mr. Morrow: Mr. LaPine indicated that I was along with him, and I support
everything he said.
Mr. Knauer: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Mr. LaPine: I meant to bring this up. One of the problems I usually have
when I go to a restaurant is they don't have enough room in the
front for a holding area. For instance, if you've got a person like
my wife, she's got arthritis real bad. If we don't gel a table right
protection against mosquitoes?
Mr. Knauer:
I heard you ask that question earlier.
Mr. Alanskas:
Yes. It's a serious question.
Mr. Knauer:
If there are a lot of mosquitoes, we're not going to have a lot of
customers, so it's very important to us that the customers are
comfortable. We will do whatever it lakes.
Mr. Alanskas:
So you would have some type of a protection to keep the
mosquitoes away?
Mr. Knauer:
Yes, and I am by no means an expert at that, but I will
guarantee you that there will be some protection from
mosquitoes.
Mr. Morrow:
On the patio dining, if I follow you correctly, it will not be used as
a holding area. The outside dining will be primarily for an
occasional drink and diners.
Mr. Knauer:
Correct. We have an adequate holding area in the front of the
restaurant for people and in the bar itself before they would be
taken to their table.
Mr. Morrow: Mr. LaPine indicated that I was along with him, and I support
everything he said.
Mr. Knauer: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Mr. LaPine: I meant to bring this up. One of the problems I usually have
when I go to a restaurant is they don't have enough room in the
front for a holding area. For instance, if you've got a person like
my wife, she's got arthritis real bad. If we don't gel a table right
21236
away, and there's no place to sit, and you have a half hour wail.
I didn't notice much room in the one in Birmingham where
people could sit down. Is there going to be any area there?
Mr. Knauer: There is quite a bit of space. I don't know the exact square
footage. There is a large vestibule, then there is a large space
before the vestibule, and then there's a hallway all with benches
in it. We don't make people go to the bar to wail. They can wait
either in the waiting area, if you will, the hostess area, they can
wail in the vestibule, in all of those areas. My guess is that
there's probably a few hundred square feet. It's a lot of space
out there.
Mr. LaPine:
We also wenito the Bravo restaurant. Theirs is a little different
because of the uniqueness of how that whole complex is
planned out. They also give these little beeper boxes. Do you
give beeper boxes there?
Mr. Knauer:
Yes.
Mr. Alanskas:
Do you take reservations?
Mr. Knauer:
Yes.
Mr. Alanskas:
You do? Very good. Are there any other questions? Is there
anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this
petition? Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing on this
item. A motion is in order.
On a motion by Shane, seconded by Morrow, and adopted, it was
#05-53-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-11 submitted by Cameron Mitchell
Restaurants, LLC, requesting waiver use approval to construct
and operate a full-service free-standing restaurant at 17600
Haggerty, located on the east side of Haggerty Road between
Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest % of
Section 7, the Planning Commission does hereby recommend
to the City Council that Petition 2004-03-02-11 be approved
subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet SPA prepared by Knauer
Incorporated with a revision date of April 2, 2004, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
21237
2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet LP -1 prepared by
J Eppink Partners, Inc. with a revision date of April 22,
2004, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of
hydroseeding;
4. That underground sprinklers shall be provided for all
landscaped and sodded areas, and all planted materials
shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection
Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a
healthy condition;
5. That the Building Elevations Plans marked Sheets A2 and
A3 prepared by Knauer Incorporated both with a revision
date of April 2, 2004, is hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
6. That the maximum number of customer seats shall not
exceed 380, including 292 interior seats and 88 exterior
patio seats;
7. That all pole mounted light fixtures shall be shielded and
shall not exceed a maximum height of 20 feel above grade;
8. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be submitted, together
with the sign plans of the other two restaurants, for review
and approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council;
9. That the petitioner shall comply with the stipulation in the
correspondence dated April 13, 2004 from the Livonia
Inspection Department which suggests that the barrier free
parking be shifted closer to the entrance and that there be
a blue marked crossing aisle from the barrier free parking
to the dedicated ramp;
10. That this approval is contingent upon the petitioner
obtaining a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for
deficient parking;
11. That the petitioner shall comply with the stipulations listed
in the correspondence dated April 2, 2004 from the Livonia
Fire and Rescue Division of the Department of Public
Safety;
21238
If subject building(s) are to be provided with an
automatic sprinkler system, a hydrant shall be located
between 50 feel and 100 feel from the Fire Department
connection;
Hydrant spacing in the commercial/retail groupings
shall be consistent with the City of Livonia Ordinances;
Any curves or corner of streets shall accommodate
emergency vehicles with a turning radius of 63 feet
wall -lo -wall;
Fire lanes shall be marked with freestanding signs or
marked curbs, sidewalks, or other traffic surfaces that
have the words "Fire Lane — No Parking" painted in
contrasting colors at a size and spacing approved by
the authority having jurisdiction; and
12. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use;
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Shane, Morrow, Alanskas, LaPine, Pieroecchi,
Smiley
NAYES:
None
21239
ABSTAIN: Walsh
ABSENT: None
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
ITEM #4 PETITION 2004-03-02-12 MITCHELL'S FISH MARKET
LIQUOR LICENSE
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-12, submitted by Cameron Mitchell Restaurants, LLC,
requesting waiver use approval to utilize Class C and SDM
liquor licenses in connection with a full-service free-standing
restaurant at 17600 Haggerty, located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest % of Section 7.
Mr. Alanskas: Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: If we can, we'll go right straight to the correspondence as I've
previously presented information on this petition.
Mr. Alanskas: All right. Mr. Nowak, would you please read the
correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are two items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated March 30, 2014, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above-referencedpetition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with this
waiver use petition is approved." The letter is signed by Robert
J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated April 8, 2004, revised, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 25, 2004,
the above- eferenced petftion has been reviewed. The following
is noted. This is the second petition that has requested a Class
C liquor license for this general area. Therefore, this request
and subsequent request to follow will require a waiver of the
1000 foot distance separation requirement from City Council.
This Department has no further objections to this petition." The
letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection.
That is the extent of the correspondence.
21240
Mr. Alanskas:
Is the petitioner here this evening?
John B. Carlin,
Jr., Plunkett & Cooney, P.C., 38505 Woodward, Suite 2000,
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 48304. I'm appearing on behalf of
Cameron Mitchell Restaurants, LLC.
Mr. Alanskas:
Would you explain to us what you want to in regards to letting
patrons lake home a bottle of wine?
Mr. Carlin:
Are you talking about the SDM?
Mr. Alanskas:
Yes.
Mr. Carlin:
I did that because that's something that a lot of the full service
restaurants are doing today with their increased take-out
business. You talked a while ago about you can get a fish
dinner there and take it home. A lot of people have asked to
take a bottle wine from the restaurant, and with that peril,
you can do that. If the City is opposed to that, we will withdraw
it. Its not that big a deal.
Mr. Alanskas:
Do you have much of that?
Mr. Carlin:
Today, no, but its definitely increasing. You already have
about six or seven restaurants, Class C, that have SDM's now
and you're seeing more and more of it coming from the full
service restaurants. Your Cutbacks, your Cameron Mitchells,
Bravos - they're catering a lot to the takeout people who want
to come in, get a full meal, take it home. You even have
situations where someone will have a cocktail party and they'll
come to the restaurant, get the full meal for the party, and they
want to take some bottles of wine home with them. This way
you could do it. With a Class C you cannot do that. With the
SDM, you can.
Mr. Alanskas:
Correct. Mr. Piercecchi?
Mr. Piercecchi:
Sir, I'm sure you're aware that granting an SDM license in
combination with a Class C is, for Livonia, a serious departure.
I can't recall any of them in my nine years on this Board. Are
you aware, sir, that if we grant this request for yourself and
Bravo and the Irish restaurant, we're opening the door?
Mr. Carlin:
Mr. Piercecchi, I said that if its a problem with this panel, we
will withdraw it. It's not a big deal for us.
21241
Mr. Piercecchi: You're withdrawing it now, then?
Mr. Carlin:
If this panel doesn t want to do it, if the City doesn't want to do,
we'll withdraw it.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Well, I can only speak for myself. All I know is that if this is
granted, all the other Class C establishments have the right to
ask also for SDM licenses, and to be fair and consistent, the
City would have no other recourse but to grant them, which
would be a tremendous number of additional SDM's. In
particular, I haven't seen any information regarding the need
for an SDM license in any of these three restaurants, and
personally, I don't know of any logical reason why you really
would want one. Further, if granted, what I can see is people
leaving a fine restaurant, and Livonia is known for its fine
restaurants, leaving your facility with a six pack and I don't
think ifs in your interest or in the City's interest to have that.
And who knows, there could be students. You're adjoining to
Schoolcra t College, and we're making it easier for these
people to obtain alcohol. Livonia, sir, has a reputation for
upscale restaurants, and I'm sure the three of them that are
going in there will be upscale, and I suggest by denying an
SDM, it's a way of keeping it that way. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Morrow:
Yes, Mr. Carlin, in our study session, we did express some
concern about the SDM in conjunction with a Class C, which I
have no problem with the Class C. We were kind of given to
believe at that time that it really wasn't a viable request. I
guess what I'm trying to say, it was imparted to us like it was
going to be withdrawn at this meeting.
Mr. Carlin:
Then we will withdraw it.
Mr. Morrow:
Well, that was what I was hoping you would say, at least as
one commissioner because I was expecting to read my current
notes to find that it had been deleted, and d had not been.
Mr. Carlin:
Consider it withdrawn.
Mr. Morrow:
Thank you, sir.
Mr. Shane:
What part of the floor plan of the restaurant is devoted to this
particular use?
Mr. Carlin:
The SDM?
21242
Mr.Shane:
Yes.
Mr. Carlin:
Nothing. There's no part.
Mr. Shane:
Okay, but what I mean is, you have them stacked on the wall
someplace?
Mr. Carlin:
No. No.
Mr. Shane:
In display? Nothing like that?
Mr. Carlin:
No.
Mr. Shane:
So you would order ...
Mr. Carlin:
Its nothing like that whatsoever.
Mr. Shane:
You would order it off the menu then. Is that the way you'd do
it?
Mr. Carlin:
I've gone to their restaurant in Birmingham quite frequently, and
I have seen people come in and gel a whole stack of meals and
then they order a bottle of wine. The guy goes back to his wine
room, wherever he keeps it in the back, the same way he would
do if you were having the wine at the table, and he sells you the
wine and you lake it home.
Mr. Shane:
That was the point I was trying to get at.
Mr. Carlin:
There's no display. But we've withdrawn it.
Mr. Shane:
I was going to say that I have no problem with it. You can put it
back on as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't matter either
way.
Mr. Alanskas:
Any other questions from the commissioners? Is there anybody
in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition?
Seeing no one, I will now close the public hearing. A motion is
in order.
On a motion by LaPine, seconded by Piercecchi, and adopted, it was
#05-54-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-12, submitted by Cameron Mitchell
21243
Restaurant, LLC, requesting waiver use approval to utilize Class
C and SDM liquor licenses in connection with a full-service free-
standing restaurant at 17600 Haggerty, located on the east side
of Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road
in the Southwest''/. of Section 7, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-03-02-
12 be approved for the Class C liquor license only, subject to
the waiving of the 1,000 fool separation requirement between
Class C licensed establishments, for the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
LaPine, Piercecchi, Alanskas, Shane, Morrow,
Smiley
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Walsh
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution for the Class C liquor license only.
ITEM #5 PETITION 200403-02-13 POTBELLY
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-13 submitted by Potbelly Sandwich Works requesting
waiver use approval to operate a full service restaurant at 17370
Haggerty Road, located on the east side of Haggerty Road
between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest
1/4 of Section 7.
21244
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Alanskas: Is there any correspondence, Mr. Nowak?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated March 30, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with this
waiver use petition is approved." The letter is signed by Robert
J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2004, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to operate a full service restaurant on
property located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Six
Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest X of Section
7. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter is signed
by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from
the Division of Police, dated April 12, 2004, which reads as
follows: We have reviewed the site plans in regards to this
business. We have no objections to the plans as submitted.
Please remind the petitioner that the handicap parking space
must be property posted per Livonia City Ordinance." The letter
is signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The
fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 13,
2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of
March 29, 2004, the above -referenced petition has been
reviewed. The following is noted. (1) This site will require
approximately 39 parking spaces dedicated to it (34 for
customers and 5 for employees). Two barrier free spaces
should also be included in that count for this area. We would
recommend the pavement be marked with blue access aisles
from the accessible parking spaces to the dedicated ramp(s).
(2) Signage has not been reviewed. It appears this petitioner
may be proposing four wall signs. This would result in
excessive number of wall signs (one allowed, four proposed)
and excessive square footage (61 square feet allowed). (3) We
would also recommend that a master sign package be
submitted for the entry to the College Park complex to facilitate
review and approval. This Department has no further objections
to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
21245
Mr. Alanskas:
Is the petitioner here this evening?
Edgar Cepuritis, Potbelly Sandwich Works, 222 Merchandise Mart Plaza,
Chicago, Illinois 60654.
Mr. Alanskas:
Would you tell us about your proposal please?
Mr. Cepuritis:
Potbelly Sandwich Works, for those of you who are not familiar
with it, is probably best described as a neighborhood sandwich
joint. While classified as a full service restaurant, we generally
fall into the fast casual category, especially in an area such as
Livonia where you've got a good concentration of office
population, a considerable amount of takeout in addition lolhe
dine -in business. We began in 1977 as an antique store. In
orderlo attract more customers, we started selling sandwiches,
and it soon became the dominant feature of the establishment
and look over the business. We have since maintained the
antique theme and began to build the restaurant business. All
of our restaurants have no formica. It's all custom wood mill
working on the interior, lin ceilings, stained concrete floors with
a combination of hardwood. We are looking at pretty
aggressively coming into the Detroit market and feel Livonia
would be an outstanding opportunity for us to share our brand
with the community. We are asking to get the waiver for the
special use, in addition to the proposed signage on both the
north elevation as well as the west elevation, one facing
Haggerty Road, the primary street, as well as the entry drive,
which is the only point of access into the development.
Mr. Alanskas:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Ms. Smiley:
So you're basically opened at lunchtime or into the dinnertime?
Mr. Cepuritis:
Lunch is our primary business, but dinner, we have found in the
suburban locations, can be a pretty significant portion of our
business. But we'll be open probably 10:30, 11:00, depending
upon the demand when the lunch period would begin, to roughly
800.
Ms. Smiley:
A lot of it is takeout?
Mr. Cepuritis:
Yes, it is. At lunch, probably a greater portion of take-out than
at dinner in the suburban market.
Mr. Morrow:
Just a couple of comments and a couple of questions. Mr.
LaPine and I went out and saw your location off of Big Beaver
21246
Road, and it was very tastefully done on the outside, and it was
the motif you wanted on the inside. I did notice, I think you have
the sandwiches all one price for whatever goes in there. It's
kind of like a serving line. You go in and make your order and
by the time you finish up, you've got whatever you want.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Correct. All the sandwiches are paced at $3.79. They are
warm sandwiches made to order. As you mentioned, you place
your order, by the time you gel to the register the sandwiches
are ready.
Mr. Morrow:
You are aware there's a large collegejust north of you that may
provide a few customers.
Mr. Cepuritis:
We noticed that in our homework.
Mr. LaPine:
I notice, as Mr. Morrow pointed, we were out there at Crooks
and Big Beaver. You only have one sign. It was on the east
side of the building, and then you had your awning signs with
your logo. In Livonia, unfortunately, the logo is considered part
of the sign although I thought they were very tastefully done.
My question is, your awnings are going to be solid blue just like
the one they got out there. Is that correct?
Mr. Cepuritis:
That's correct.
Mr. LaPine:
The only problem I have there, we have to make sure we
coordinate this with the rest of that retail stores because
originally it was supposed to be purple with white stripes. I think
the blue is much better. So we need to make sure the landlord
agrees that the rest of building is going to have the blue
awnings. The second comment I have is, and Mr. Morrow
pointed out it was very tastefully done, I like when you walk in,
you've got the big potbelly stove there. That was kind of neat.
It looks like when you're in college where you have a loft up
above, where you've got the old wringer washer. It's verynicely
done. I think you're going to be very successful there. Because
of your proximity to a lot of office buildings when they're all built
on the college complex here, do you have a catering service?
Say a business was having a lunch for 10 - 15 people, do you
deliver and do things like that?
Mr. Cepuritis:
Absolutely. We have eight stores in the loop in Chicago. I don't
know what time of day you were in Troy ...
Mr. LaPine:
We were there at noon time.
21247
Mr. Cepuritis:
So you see how well we execute on the through put. We can
gel people through the line I think faster than anybody in a quick
service business and still deliver a lop notch product. But as far
as catering goes, we do have catering. We do have delivery.
The delivery is done on bikes. They have big warming cases
that they wear on their shoulders and they will ride to the
neighboring office buildings.
Mr. Alanskas:
Your lunch hours are from 10:30 to 2:00. That would be the
cutoff for lunch?
Mr. Cepuritis:
From an operational standpoint, we consider lunch from
whenever we open to 4:00. Dinner starts from 4:00 on.
Mr. Alanskas:
Because a lot of your sandwich shops and sub shops, between
noonish and 1:00, have big lines. What is your average time for
taking an order and giving the person the merchandise? Ten
minutes? Twelve minutes? Because the average person only
has half an hour.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Sure. As I mentioned, we have the stores on the loop in
Chicago. We have lines out the door that are probably, I would
guess, 30 to 40 people deep. We can gel those people through
there easily in 10 minutes.
Mr. Alanskas:
How many people do you have during the lunch hour, your busy
peak?
Mr. Cepuritis:
Al the peak period, we'll have eight employees and most of
them will be focused on the frontline. I don't know if you walked
through the back of the restaurant. We have very little back of
house so to speak. So all the prep
work and all the product is in
front. We don't have people continuously
going back and forth.
The people we have on staff are all there and attentive to the
consumers. Lunch is what makes our business so we better be
prepared.
Mr. Alanskas:
So you can get them in and gel them out.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Gel them in, get them out. You may have noticed in Troy,
actually I don't know if it's there or not, but a good majority of
our stores have a little placard at some point towards the door.
So when the line begins to queue and it gets intimidating, they'll
say "Seven minutes to eat from here." And that placard is
generally pretty accurate.
21248
Mr. LaPine:
I didn't notice that but we did notice that you probably have six
or seven employees and they were pretty busy. One person
passes it right down the line to the next person. By the time a
guy got to the end of the line, he paid and was silting down or
he went out the door. It's a very good operation.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Thank you.
Mr. Alanskas:
The next question I had, your lettuce, tomatoes, what you don't
use that day, is it used the next day or is it thrown out with
nothing but fresh vegetables coming in?
Mr. Cepunts:
Especially with the vegetables, it's nothing bulfresh.
Mr. Piercecchi:
It was mentioned briefly about lunch. What are your hours?
Mr. Cepurifis:
Again, it vanes from store to store based on the demand of the
market. My assumption, and Schoolcraft College will be a large
driver here, is that our lunch will start a little bit earlier, probably
10:30 and we will close roughly at 8:00. It might be a little bit
earlier during the week and 8:00 on the weekends. We do have
an old fashioned ice cream dipping wheel, so we have hand
dipped ice cream and milkshakes. Atter the soccer games or in
the evenings maybe after a movie, we do gel a nice little hit of
business that kind of follows that product.
Mr. Piercecchi:
But as a rule, in general, by 8:00 your finished with your
operations?
Mr. Cepurifis:
Generally speaking. We have some stores in urban
environments that are open until 10:00 or 11:00, but that would
not be the case here.
Mr. Piercecchi:
The reason why I'm asking this is because we're very tight on
parking. If 8:00 on is restaurant hours, you're opening up some
of that space that can be used for parking.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Sure. I think Caribou is proposed to be next to us; we'll have
very complementary uses. They have a heavy demand in the
morning, we have a heavy demand at lunch, and we probably
both do a little bit of business in the evening. So from that
standpoint and the location of the shopping center, we have a
good field of parking in close proximity. As for the other
restaurants, I don't know how the valet will specifically work.
21249
Mr. Piercecchi:
You're not in competition with the restaurants.
Mr. Cepuritis:
Absolutely not.
Mr. Alanskas:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition?
Robert W. Bednas,
SchoolcraR Commons, LLC, c/o Etkin Equities, Inc., 29100
Northwestern, Southfield, Michigan 48034. We are the
developer and Potbelly's landlord. I would just like to make a
comment that was made by Mr. LaPine regarding the awnings.
The blue awnings for Potbelly's was a concession lhalwe made
on the building, and we thought it was an appropriate one to
make. It was one that they requested because it's in keeping
with their theme for colors and other schemes. We are going to
have the same blue awnings on the adjacent tenant, which is
Caribou. So that actually anchors the west end of the
Marketplace building. It is our intention to keep the striped
awnings in the center portion of the building and go back to a
solid color awning on the east end of the building. That way, we
will have some separation between the so-called anchor tenants
and interior tenants, and I just want that clarification in there.
Mr. LaPine:
If we go blue here, my vole is going to be for blue for the rest of
your tenants in there.
Mr. Bednas:
We would like to take exception to that.
Mr. LaPine:
That's fine. You can lake exception. I'm just letting you know
where I stand.
Mr. Bednas:
Okay.
Mr. Alanskas:
Is there anyone else in the audience? Seeing no one, I will
close the public hearing. A motion is in order.
On a motion by
Piercecchi, seconded by Shane, and adopted, it was
#05-55-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-13 submitted by Potbelly Sandwich Works
requesting waiver use approval to operate a full service
restaurant at 17370 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest 114 of Section 7, the Planning Commission does
21250
hereby recommend to the City Council that Petition 2004-03-02-
13 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan marked Sheet 1 of 2 prepared for
Potbelly Sandwich Works dated April 8, 2004, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered to;
2. Thal the maximum number of interior customer seats shall
not exceed sixty-seven (67);
3. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be submitted for review
and approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council; and
4. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. Thal the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 23.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Piercecchi, Shane, Alanskas, LaPine, Morrow,
Smiley
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Walsh
ABSENT:
None
21251
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #6 PETITION 2004-03-02-14 CLADDAGH PUB
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-14, submitted by Claddagh Pubs of College Park, LLC,
requesting waiver use approval to utilize Class C and SDM
liquor licenses in connection with a full-service free-standing
restaurant at 17800 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest 114 of Section 7.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Alanskas: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first dem is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 2, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description provided with the
application is the entire condominium development. Since
different restaurants art= being proposed at this time, it would be
more appropriate to use the legal description that consisted of
Unit 4 of College Park Condominium." The letter is signed by
Robert J. Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from
the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2004, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to operate a Class C and
SDM liquor license in connection with a full service restaurant
on property located on the east side of Haggerty Road between
Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest % of
Section 7. We have no objections to this proposal." The letter
is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter
is from the Division of Police, dated April 12, 2004, which reads
as follows: We have previously reviewed the site plans in
regards to this business. We have no new recommendations
concerning this site." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee,
Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated April 7, 2004, which reads as
21252
follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 31, 2004, the
above -referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department
has no objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex
Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of
the correspondence.
Mr. Alanskas:
Is the petitioner here?
John B. Carlin,
Jr., Plunkett & Cooney, P.C., 38505 Woodward, Suite 2000,
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 48304. I will withdraw the SDM.
Mr. Alanskas:
Very good. Are there any questions from the commissioners?
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one, I will close the public
hearing. A motion is in order.
On a motion by
LaPine, seconded by Piercecchi, and adopted, it was
#05-56-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Pefition 2004-03-02-14 submitted by Claddagh Pubs of College
Park, LLC, requesting waiver use approval to utilize Class C
and SDM liquor licenses in connection with a full-service free-
standing restaurant at 17800 Haggerty Road, located on the
east side of Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven
Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 7, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2004-03-02-14 be approved for the Class C liquor
license only, subject to the waiving of the 1,000 foot separation
requirement between Class C licensed establishments, for the
following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. Thal the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to aid in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
21253
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
La Pine, Piercecchi, Shane, Morrow, Smiley,
Alanskas
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Walsh
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an
approving resolution.
ITEM #7 PETITION 2004-04-02-16 BRAVO RESTAURANT
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-16, submitted by Bravo Development, Inc., requesting
waiver use approval to construct and operate a full-service free-
standing restaurant at 17700 Haggerty Road, located on the
east side of Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven
Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 7.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Alanskas: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are three items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 5, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with these
waiver petitions is enclosed." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to construct full-service
free-standing restaurant on property located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest X of Section 7. We have no objections to this
proposal with the following stipulations: (1) Access around
building shall be provided for emergency vehicles with turning
radius up to 65 feet wall-to-wall and a minimum vertical
clearance of 13-Y§ feet (2) Hydrant spacing in the
commercial/retail groupings shall be consistent with City of
21254
Livonia Ordinances. (3) Any curves or comer of streets shall
accommodate emergency vehicles with a turning radius of 65
feet wall-to-wall." The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay,
Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated April 16, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your
request of April 16, 2004, the above -referenced petition has
been reviewed. The following is noted. (1) The occupancy load
of this site is different for building load and parking
requirements. This site will require 183 parking spaces (326
seats divided by 2 = 163 + 20 employees). However, the
building occupant load could be as high as 430 due to the large
standing area(s). Therefore, by zoning, this site will require 183
parking spaces dedicated to it with 6 of these spaces being
accessible spaces. The accessible spaces should be located
closest to the entry. We recommend the pavement be marked
with blue striping from the accessible parking area to the
dedicated ramp. (2) Signage has not been reviewed. We would
recommend that a master sign package be submitted for the
entire development. It appears the petitioner maybe proposing
an excessive amount of wall signs. One wall sign of
approximately 84 square feet would be allowed. A zoning
variance would be required for anything else in excess of that
number. This Department has no further objections to this
petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director
of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Alanskas: Are there any questions from the Commissioners for staff? Is
the petitioner here this evening?
Jim MacKenzie, Director of Design and Development for Bravo Development,
Inc., 18 North Main Street, Chagrin Falls, Ohio 44022. We
cannot afford an expensive architect like Mr. Knauer, so I would
like to approach and give you some handouts. The handouts
that you have in front of you represent our Bravo restaurant in
Westchester, Ohio, which is very similar to the project that we're
proposing here in Livonia. As it was staled by the City, we're
proposing a 8,900 square feel free-standing building. Our
exterior finish, as you can see here, is a masonry stucco finish.
Its a three-step stucco process, with a wainscot on the bottom
of a white masonry material which goes up two feel in the base.
Our awnings are black and white striped. The sign package that
you have in front of you represents the sign package that we are
proposing on this building. The exterior photograph that you
have of the Westchester building represents very closely our
submittal. This signage represents the signage that we propose
here. Those materials that you see on this building and in the
21255
photographs that you have in front of you are the exterior
finishes that are on this board that we propose here in Livonia.
We have two patios. We have a dining patio with a bocce ball
court, and we also have a dining and bar patio which is along
the street side, which is used not only for dining. We never say
no. So it's used for dining and cocktails along the street side.
Any questions?
Mr. Alanskas:
Are there any additional comments from the commissioners?
Ms. Smiley:
Will that also be a holding area, like you could have a drink
while you're wailing for a table?
Mr. MacKenzie:
You can have a drink while you're wailing for a table, yes.
Ms. Smiley:
Then you're not going to bring those out there and seat them.
Mr. MacKenzi:
Are you referring to the tables on the cocktail patio?
Ms. Smiley:
Yes.
Mr. MacKenzie:
They will be first come, first serve. If they're open, you're more
than welcome to do whatever you want with them. There will
also be wailing areas or standing areas where you'll be able to
enjoy a cocktail if you want prior to sealing, or a glass of wine.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Mark, did we gel anything on the numbers on the signage for
Bravo?
Mr. Taormina:
No, I do not have the details on the complete signage package.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Do you have any idea of the amount of square feet you're
talking about?
Mr. MacKenzie:
I believe the verbiage on the awnings is probably above and
beyond the requirement allowed. Whatwe have on our awnings
is we have words like dolci, vino, which are very Italian and it's
to represent, more than anything, an Italian feel through the
building. Those I believe are the only elements that exceed the
sign criteria. We are proposing probably reducing the square
footage of the signage on the walls to accommodate the
signage on the awnings because we feel it is, in our opinion, it is
not signage; it is a design element that completes the awning.
Mr. Alanskas:
So what you're saying is you will conform to our signage
program?
21256
Mr. MacKenzie:
We will conform to your signage, yes.
Mr. Piercecchi:
This is an Italian restaurant, and being an Italian, I kind of lean
towards Italian food. Do you prepare your pasta dishes
internally, like your ravioli and that, or are they brought in?
Mr. MacKenzie:
No. Everything is hand made right on site. The lasagna you will
love.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Looking forward to it.
Mr. LaPine:
The restaurant you have in Rochester Hills, which Mr. Morrow
and I were out at that restaurant last week, is that pretty much
what we're going to get here in Livonia?
Mr. MacKenzie:
Yes. All of our restaurants - we have prototype elements. In
Rochester Hills, we ft that building to within the confines of that
space; that is, an end cap on a mall. Here we have the ability to
bring all of the elements together the way we want them versus
forcing some issues that we did there.
Mr. LaPine:
I notice there you only have one outside patio along the street.
Mr. MacKenzie:
And very narrow.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. And they don't have a bocce ball court.
Mr. MacKenzie:
They dont have a bocce ball court, no.
Mr. LaPine:
But the interior of the restaurant, which was very, very nice, that
basically will be what we're going to gel in Livonia?
Mr. MacKenzie:
Exactly. We will meet or exceed your expectations there.
Mr. LaPine:
I'd just like to say that your manager out there is a very nice
gentleman. He spent maybe an hour and half with us showing
us the whole operation. It was very, very nice. It's a very busy
operation.
Mr. MacKenzie:
How was your food?
Mr. LaPine:
Excellent.
Mr. Morrow:
Will there be any type of carryout in connection with this
restaurant?
21257
Mr. MacKenzie:
We can address this sooner than later. We do have carry out.
You can call and order. We do a fair business for people that
do not have the time to wait or do not have the time to spend at
dinner but would love lasagna. They can call ahead. They can
order and then come in and pick it up and leave with it. We will
not make application for an SDM license.
Mr. Morrow:
I was primarily at this time speaking about the food service.
Mr. MacKenzie:
Yes, you can pick it up to go.
Mr. Morrow:
Do you have carryout menus?
Mr. MacKenzie:
You can order off of our menu. Anything on the menu you can
get to go.
Mr. Morrow:
So there's not a specific carryout menu. Ifs strictly anything on
your menu?
Mr. MacKenzie:
Correct.
Mr. Morrow:
Thank you.
Mr. Shane:
Will you have music outside?
Mr. MacKenzie:
We do have music outside, and like all other music, music in our
restaurant is background music. It is Italian music. It is all
background music. On our patios, we have speakers that are
underneath the awnings, and we have volume controls with
those. We control all areas of our music. We have very low
decibels outside.
Mr. Alanskas:
It sounds like your going to gel a big approval. You may as well
get an up and coming plug. What are your hours and how many
days a week are you going to be open?
Mr. MacKenzie:
We will be open seven days a week. Lunch will start at, I
believe, at 11 or 11:30. During the week we will serve food until
10:00, on the weekends, 11, 11:30.
Mr. Alanskas:
Will you be taking reservations or will you have to wait in line?
Mr. MacKenzi:
We do not take reservations. For special people we do.
Mr. Alanskas:
Everybody is special.
21258
Mr. MacKenzie:
We do have a reservation service that we call "Call ahead"
where you can call ahead and say you're going to be there in 20
minutes and your name goes on the list so you get there and
you get preferred seating.
Mr. LaPine:
I thought the store in Rochester does have black awnings.
Does it not?
Mr. MacKenzie:
It has black and white awnings with the verbiage on the
awnings.
Mr. LaPine:
But they are black and white. I thought these were red. Are
these black and while?
Mr. MacKenzie:
These are black and white. It's a black and tan. It's not a while
white. Ifs an off white.
Mr. LaPine:
It was well done. Its a very nice restaurant.
Mr. MacKenzie:
Thank you very much.
Mr. Alanskas:
Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak for or against
this petitioner? Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. A
motion is in order.
On a motion by
Smiley, seconded by Shane, and adopted, it was
#05-57-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-16, submitted by Bravo Development, Inc.,
requesting waiver use approval to construct and operate a full-
service free-standing restaurant at 17700 Haggerty Road,
located on the east side of Haggerty Road between Six Mile
Road and Seven Mile Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 7,
the Planning Commission does hereby recommend to the City
Council that Petition 2004-04-02-16 be approved subject to the
following conditions:
1. Thal the Site Plan marked Sheet CP -5 prepared by Alwe1l--
Hicks, Inc. with a revision date of February 4, 2004, is
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2. That the Landscape Plan marked Sheet LP -1 prepared by
J Eppink Partners, Inc. with a revision dale of April 22,
2004, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
21259
3. That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu of
hydroseeding;
4. That underground sprinklers shall be provided for all
landscaped and sodded areas, and all planted materials
shall be installed to the satisfaction of the Inspection
Department and thereafter permanently maintained in a
healthy condition;
5. That the Building Elevations Plans marked Sheets A-2 and
A-2.1 prepared by RSA Architects Inc., both with a revision
dale of March 29, 2004, are hereby approved and shall be
adhered to;
6. That the maximum number of customer seals shall not
exceed 311, including 251 interior seats and 60 exterior
patio seats;
7. That all pole mounted light fixtures shall be shielded and
shall not exceed a maximum height of 20 feel above grade;
8. That only conforming signage is approved with this petition,
and any additional signage shall be submitted, together
with the sign plans of the other two (2) restaurants, for
review and approval by the Planning Commission and City
Council;
9. That the petitioner shall comply with the stipulation in the
correspondence dated April 16, 2004 from the Livonia
Inspection Department which suggests that the barrier free
parking be located closest to the entrance and that there
be a blue marked crossing aisle from the barrier free
parking to the dedicated ramp;
10. That this approval is contingent upon the petitioner
obtaining a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals for
deficient parking;
11. That the petitioner shall comply with the stipulations listed
in the correspondence dated April 13, 2004 from the
Livonia Fire and Rescue Division of the Department of
Public Safety;
- Access around building shall be provided for
emergency vehicles with turning radius up to 65 feel
21260
wall-to-wall and a minimum vertical clearance of 13%
feet;
Hydrant spacing in the commercial/retail groupings
shall be consistent with the City of Livonia Ordinances;
Any curves or corner of streets shall accommodate
emergency vehicles with a turning radius of 63 feet
wall -lo -wall; and
12. That the specific plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
al the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. Thal the proposed use complies with all of the special and
general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 11.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. Thal the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Smiley, Shane, Morrow, Pieroecchi, LaPine,
Alanskas
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Walsh
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
21261
ITEM #8 PETITION 2004-04-02-17 BRAVO LIQUOR LICENSE
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-17 submitted by Bravo Development, Inc., requesting
waiver use approval to operate Class C and SDM liquor
licenses in connection with a full-service free-standing
restaurant at 17700 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest 114 of Section 7.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Alanskas: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are two items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request to operate a Class C and
SDM liquor license in connection with a fullservice free
standing restaurant located on property on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest X of Section 7. We have no objections to this
proposal." The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire
Marshal. The second letter is from the Inspection Department,
dated April 8, 2004, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your
request ofApnl 2, 2004, the above-referencedpeffhon has been
reviewed. The following is noted. This is the third petition that
has requested a Class C liquor license for this general area.
Therefore, this request and subsequent request to follow will
require a waiver of the 1000 -foot distance separation
requirement from City Council. This Department has no further
objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop,
Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the
correspondence.
Mr. Alanskas: Would the petitioner please approach the podium?
John B. Carlin, Jr., Plunkett & Cooney, P.C., 38505 Woodward, Suite 2000,
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 48304. 1 will withdraw the SDM.
Mr. Alanskas: Are there any questions from the commissioners? I will now go
the audience. Is there anyone wishing to speak for or against
this petition? Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. A
motion is in order.
21262
On a motion by Piercecchi, seconded by La Pine, and adopted, it was
#05-58-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-17 submitted by Bravo Development, Inc.,
requesting waiver use approval to operate Class C and SDM
liquor licenses in connection with a full-service free-standing
restaurant at 17700 Haggerty Road, located on the east side of
Haggerty Road between Six Mile Road and Seven Mile Road in
the Southwest 1/4 of Section 7, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend that Petition 2004-04-02-17 be approved for
the Class C liquor license only, subject to the waiving of the
1,000 fool separation requirement between Class C licensed
establishments, for the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Piercecchi, La Pine, Alanskas, Shane, Morrow,
Smiley
NAYES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Walsh
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Alanskas, Acting Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing
resolution adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution for the Class C liquor license only. It is now 9:45, and
our Chairman, Mr. Walsh, is returning to the podium.
21263
YY=11iE'R=9=kIY1[a]C lKIDES1411ya6�9e7=1 1i I I=1e4Ie1 � 111•-141.191 RS
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
03-02-15, submitted by Chadwick Hurlings, on behalf of Premier
Landscaping, requesting waiver use approval to operate a
landscape company with outdoor storage of vehicles and
materials at 12126 Newburgh Road, located on the east side of
Newburgh Road between Plymouth Road and Amrhein Road in
the Southwest 1/4 of Section 29.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated March 31, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with this
waiver petition is approved." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 2, 2004, which reads
as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in
connection with a request to operate a landscape company with
outdoor storage of vehicles and materials on property located
on the east side of Newburgh Road between Plymouth Road
and Amrhein Road in the Southwest''/. of Section 29. We have
no objections to this proposal with the following stipulations: (1)
Due to the noted width of 19'6", this Division requests that the
entrance drive be increased to a minimum of 20' and be posted
(on both sides) 'Fire Lane — No Parking.' (2) Fire lanes shall be
not less than 20 feet of unobstructed width, able to withstand
live loads of fire apparatus, and have a minimum of 13 feet 6
inches of vertical clearance." The letter is signed by Randall D.
Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division of
Police, dated April 16, 2004, which reads as follows: "We have
reviewed the plans in connection with a proposal to operate a
landscape company with outdoor storage of vehicles and
materials on the east side of Newburgh Road between
Plymouth Road and Amrhein Road. We recommend that a stop
sign be installed for vehicles exiting the business onto
Newburgh Road. The plan shows a parking area for two cars.
Our calculations indicate that a total of eight parking spaces art;
required with one parking space posted for handicap parking.
21264
We also recommend that adequate lighting be installed to
enhance crime prevention especially near the fuel tanks. There
is no indication on the plans regarding a protective fence around
the property. A fence of an adequate height should be installed
to discourage entry onto the property." The letter is signed by
Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is
from the Inspection Department, dated April 16, 2004, which
reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of March 31, 2004,
the above- eferenced petition has been reviewed. The following
is noted. (1) This site has an unfulfilled obligation from its
original construction to install a hot water tank in the main
building. No such permit has ever been obtained nor the
subsequent required inspection approvals. (2) The building
painted wood fascia is in poor repair and needs maintenance
and painting or replacement. (3) The gates are in poor repair
and need to be replaced. (4) Material may not be stacked
higher than eight feet. (5) Double striping is not indicated on the
brick parking areas. This Department has no further objections
to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners for staff?
Hearing none, would the petitioner please step forward.
Chadwick Hurlings,
980 Palmer, Plymouth, Michigan 48170.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anything you'd like to add to the Planning Staffs
presentation thus far?
Mr. Hurlings:
I'd just like to answer any questions you may have regarding the
improvements that we will be making. We are currently leasing
the building from Lee Capalina, who owns the building. We
look the building over in October. Seeing that winter started
pretty much there after, we had little time to do any painting or
anything as far as fences or as far as beautifying the property.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions?
Mr. LaPine:
Could you tell us whats in the four trailers? What do you store
in the trailers?
Mr. Hurlings:
Those trailers actually aren't mine. They are the landlord's. He
has neglected to remove them from the property. They are full
of refrigerators and stoves. That's what his business is, and he
hasn't removed those trailers from the property. They are
enclosed trailers. Its almost like a train car.
21265
Mr. LaPine: Is there anything in your lease that says he's going to remove
those trailers?
Mr. Hurlings: No. It was only a verbal agreement.
Mr. LaPine: Thal takes up quite a lot of space.
Mr. Hurlings: It actually does, and I think the inspector that came by
mentioned that it look up almost more space than the building
look up on the properly, which I dont know if that would classify
as being a building itself.
Mr. LaPine: You should try to get him to gel rid of those.
Mr. Hurlings: We've contacted his office several limes with no response
Mr. LaPine: On the north side of the building, you have a fence along there.
Its in pretty bad shape, as you well know. Behind there, you
have a lot of old branches and wood and sluff. Is that all going
to be removed?
Mr. Hurlings: That has already been removed.
Mr. LaPine: In the front of the building on the south side where you're going
to put in two parking spots, then you had kind of like gravel
going from the driveway. All that gravel is going to be removed
and sod put in there?
Mr. Hurlings: That is correct. The gravel was there when we look it over.
We've already put some mulch down in the front.
Mr. LaPine: The fixing up the building, the painting of the wood or replacing
the wood. Is that your responsibility or your landlord's?
Mr. Hurlings: It is the landlord's.
Mr. Alanskas: Sir, how many employees do you have?
Mr. Hurlings: We have nine full time employees in the summer. We have
been utilizing the building to the north of our property for
parking. Lee Capatina, who owns my building, also owns the
building north of me. They are renovating that building.
They've basically gutted it and are making it for what they need.
Meanwhile, they have no employees in that building so we've
21266
been utilizing that parking lot because we are not allowed to
park in front, to the west, on the Newburgh side of our property.
Mr. Alanskas:
I just asked you how many employees. Is most of your work
residential or commercial?
Mr. Hurlings:
Its about 50-50.
Mr. Alanskas:
What I'm trying to gel at is I'm sure, because I'm in the same
business, what I'm concerned about is what you're doing here in
front is very nice, but when you go out and do a customer's job
and you have to bring back cement work, old trees, you're
dumping in the back of your yard. You're not getting rid of it
right away, and that's got to be policed because that's the
nature of your business. Do you take all your refuse from a job
site right away to a junk yard or do you bring it back to your
facility?
Mr. Hurlings:
Ninety-five percent of the time we will take it to Six Mile and
Napier, the dump.
Mr. Alanskas:
But what you're saying is, if this is approved, you will not have
any waste material of any type on your grounds?
Mr. Hurlings:
That's correct.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one, I'll ask for a motion.
On a motion by
LaPine, seconded by Alanskas, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-59-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-03-02-15, submitted by Chadwick Hurlings, on
behalf of Premier Landscaping, requesting waiver use approval
to operate a landscape company with outdoor storage of
vehicles and materials at 12126 Newburgh Road, located on the
east side of Newburgh Road between Plymouth Road and
Amrhein Road in the Southwest 1/4 of Section 29, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend to the City Council that
Petition 2004-03-02-15 be approved subject to the following
conditions:
1. That the site and landscape plan dated March 12, 2004 is
hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
21267
2. That the outside storage equipment and materials shall be
limited to the items and locations shown on the approved
plan, including four (4) trailers, one (1) mulch pit, one (1)
temporary material area, and two (2) fuel tanks/pumps;
3. That there shall be no outdoor storage of inoperable
equipment, scrap material, debris or other similar items
generated by the subject use;
4. That any parking to be provided on the site shall be double
striped;
5. That the petitioner shall correct to the Inspection
Department's satisfaction the following deficiencies:
The wood fascia on the building shall be painted or
replaced;
The access gate shall be replaced; material shall not be
stacked higher than eight (8) feet;
The fence along the north property line shall be
repaired or replaced;
All excess debris shall be removed from the site;
The gravel in the front yard of the property shall be
replaced with sod; and
6. That the plans referenced in this approving resolution shall
be submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the
building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all of the
special and general waiver use standards and
requirements as set forth in Sections 16.11 and 19.06 of
the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. Thatthe subject property has the capacity to accommodate
the proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
21268
Mr. LaPine: With renewals?
Mr. Hurlings: He didn't leave an option. There is some discussion of us
buying the property, but communication with him has been very
limited. If I talked to him more often, hopefully I would have
those trailers gone by now.
Mr. LaPine: You're doing a lot of work here and it benefits his property.
Mr. Hurlings: That's correct.
Mr. LaPine: And you gel nothing out of it.
Mr. Hurlings: That's right.
Mr. LaPine: But I'd like to see you operate here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there any discussion?
Mr. LaPine:
Just one thing to the petitioner. I would gel on your landlord and
try to gel rid of those trailers back there. As you say, they're the
type that they load on railroad cars, and it would be to your
advantage because you probably need the space.
Mr. Hurlings:
Yes, we really do need the space, especially to turn a vehicle
around.
Mr. LaPine:
How long of a lease have you signed for?
Mr. Hurlings:
We signed a two-year lease, which started October 1.
Mr. LaPine: With renewals?
Mr. Hurlings: He didn't leave an option. There is some discussion of us
buying the property, but communication with him has been very
limited. If I talked to him more often, hopefully I would have
those trailers gone by now.
Mr. LaPine: You're doing a lot of work here and it benefits his property.
Mr. Hurlings: That's correct.
Mr. LaPine: And you gel nothing out of it.
Mr. Hurlings: That's right.
Mr. LaPine: But I'd like to see you operate here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
21269
Y Y=1 1i EtSI'M 9=k 111[a]C FIQrLSy,IKOZ •�SKeny ITA =1 k'JI4y,
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-18 submitted by ACO Hardware requesting waiver use
approval for the outside display and sales of merchandise, in
connection with a hardware business at 29567 Five Mile Road,
located on the south side of Five Mile Road between Middlebell
Road and Beatrice Avenue in the Northeast'''/ of Section 23.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 6, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with this
waiver petition is approved." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval
for outdoor display and storage of merchandise on property
located at the above -referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1)
Storage of flammable materials would not be allowed. (2)
Storage of combustibles shall be limited and subject to review."
The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The
third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 12, 2004,
which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in regards
to a proposal loran outside display and storage of merchandise.
We have no objection to the plan as submitted." The letter is
signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 8, 2004,
which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 5,
2004, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) This waiver use is being requested under
Section 11.03. Section 11.03(ld) limits its temporary sidewalk
displays to bedding plants and potted shrubs four April 1 to
October 1. Therefore, a separate resolution will be required,
specifically delineating the special requirements waived or
modified, in which two-thirds of the members of the City Council
must concur to be approved. (2) The time frame for display and
21270
exact merchandise and area encompassed should be noted.
This Department has no further objections to this petition." The
letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Director of Inspection.
That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions from the Commissioners for staff?
Mr. Piercecchi: Mark, this is kind of a new procedure here because of that super
majority and a lot of things can be waived. I wonder how many
people, like ACO that is here this evening for two waivers, know
the procedure on how to gel other items approved for sidewalk
sales. As it was staled by Mr. Nowak, it's basically limited to
plants and potted shrubs and things like that. But the Council
with a super majority can waive 11:03(L)(1)(d) and permit other
items. Are you acquainted with the procedures? Will you
explain the procedure? Do they just go in front of the City
Council when this comes up? Do they write a letter or what?
Mr. Taormina:
The request is presented to the Council following the
recommendation by the Planning Commission. It's a relatively
new procedure as you indicated. In this case, there are a
number of special requirements that are imposed with the
granting of a waiver use and, if for some reason, one or more of
those special requirements cannot be complied with, it can be
waived. It can be modified by a separate resolution of the City
Council in which a two-thirds majority of that body concurs.
That's basically the procedure. In this particular case, the one
provision that we know they are not complying with is the
requirement that the material on display along the sidewalk
must be limited to only potted shrubs and nursery plants.
Therefore, that aspect has to be modified by the City Council if
they are to proceed with the storage of the materials as they
have it.
Mr. Piercecchi:
I mean things like wheelbarrows and cement would have to go
through the City Council.
Mr. Taormina:
It's not allowed. That is correct.
Mr. Piercecchi:
I just wondered if they write a letter or they just go when the
Council has its public hearing.
Mr. Taormina:
It was actually part of the petition, and it will be presented to
them with the resolution this evening. If it is approved, then it is
recommended by the Planning Commission that that aspect be
waived, then the Council will consider it as part of their review of
21271
this petition. Otherwise if it's rejected by this body, then they
would have to file an appeal and present it to the Council.
Mr. Piercecchi: In other words, we do not have to have an inventory of
everything that's going to be on display?
Mr. Taormina: We have not submitted any kind of list. It's not intended to be
an all inclusive list of materials. If we want to restrict the
displays to certain items, then we can certainly do that. We just
provided examples of those items that were on display at the
time of the site inspection. As I understand their operation, this
is seasonal so it's going to change. Certain items will be out
there one time of the year and change later on as the season
progresses.
Mr. Piercecchi:
I think loo, Mr. Chairman, there's some confusion in reference to
these hardware stores that they only have to apply for it once.
Only grocery stores and things of that nature, it's one after
another; its consecutive. They dont have to reapply.
Mr. Taormina:
Yes, that applies to grocery stores as well as hardware stores.
Mr. Piercecchi:
A hardware store has to apply every year.
Mr. Taormina:
No, that's not true. This is a waiver use and it would run with
the land. So if they are successful in getting the waiver use
approved, then next year they could conduct it under the same
terms and conditions of the waiver use that's been granted.
Mr. Piercecchi:
So they don't have to come back to us any more?
Mr. Taormina:
No.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Okay, because I know Bob asked me that. Six Mile Road is my
stop.
Mr. Alanskas:
This granting of outside sales of certain things is really getting
out of hand. For example, if you drive by Home Depot, they are
pulling out in the front hot tub enclosures, which they are not
entitled to do. Today I drove by at Haggerty and Six Mile. I
went by Bed and Beyond, and they had all types of different
merchandise on their sidewalk. I mean its gelling worse and
worse and worse. The question I have is, Aco Hardware,
you've got 16,000 square feet inside your building. Why do you
have to put all your merchandise on the outside of the building?
21272
Mr. Walsh:
Right now, the comments are just to the staff. Are there any
more questions for staff before we go to the petitioner? Would
the petitioner please approach our podium?
Mr. Sam Lafata, 23333 Commerce Drive, Farmington Hills, MI 48335. 1
represent Aco Hardware.
Mr. Walsh:
Do you have anything to add to the presentation by the staff?
Mr. Lafata:
No, just the reason we do have the merchandise outside is, in
the past years we have not previously sold the dirt, the concrete
and sluff we do have outside. Over the years, we've built up a
business for this. The people in the area do want it. In fad, that
particular location does sell approximately 30 truckloads of
product a year. That is why we have to have so much outside
to lake care of their needs, and that is why we do have the
variety out there.
Mr. Alanskas:
I just wondered why you can't have it on the inside of the
building.
Mr. Lafata:
We do not have enough room for that product inside. We
truthfully do not.
Mr. Alanskas:
What you're telling me is that you have larger inventories than
your store can handle.
Mr. Lafata:
No. On that particular merchandise, bagged goods, concrete
and dirt, when you bring that merchandise indoors and display
it, it reduces the sales by 90%.
Mr. Alanskas:
How about wheelbarrows?
Mr. Lafata:
Wheelbarrows are just there so the people can see what we
have. Those can be brought inside by all means. Our intention
is to have only bagged product outside - concrete, dirt and like
products.
Ms. Smiley:
How far out did you want to come, and are going to do the
whole front of the building?
Mr. Lafata:
It would be approximately 100 feet across the front of the
building, leaving the access for the doorways, and it would
come out eight feet, leaving 20 fool ofwalkway across the store.
Mr. Morrow:
Apparently you're already doing this business?
21273
Mr. Lafata:
Yes, sir, we are.
Mr. Morrow:
And this was in lieu of the waiver?
Mr. Lafata:
Yes, sir, it is. We have been out there for approximately 10
years. We had no knowledge that we had to apply for a waiver.
Mr. Morrow:
You've been doing this for 10 years?
Mr. Lafata:
Yes, sir.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. I looked at the store on Six Mile but I didn't check your
store. One of my concerns about outside displays, aside from
the patrons going back and forth, is the housekeeping. I know
bags break and inventory turns over and it's heavy. It's hard to
get to. What experience have you had in maintaining good
housekeeping along that sales area?
Mr. Lafata:
It is maintained twice daily at a minimum, once in the morning,
once in the evening, and if it warrants it, during the daytime we
make sure it's cleaned up.
Mr. Shane:
So if I heard you correctly, you are telling us that you will not
store wheelbarrows, lawn mowers, edgers, etc., out there?
Mr. Lafata:
Correct.
Mr. Shane:
No lawn equipment, no machinery.
Mr. Lafata:
No. No. No machinery whatsoever. Only bagged landscaping
merchandise between the months of April 1 and October 1.
Mr. Morrow:
Do you have propane there?
Mr. Lafata:
At this particular store, we do have propane.
Mr. Morrow:
And where is that?
Mr. Lafata:
Right out in front up against the wall about 80 feet away from
the front entrance of the building.
Mr. Morrow:
Is that allowed as part of our waiver, Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina:
That would have to be included. That's correct. That's not
something that is permitted by right for this use.
21274
Mr. Morrow:
The Fire Department might have a concern about outside
propane.
Mr. Taormina:
There is an indication in the fire inspection report that any
combustible materials to be stored outside shall be subject to
their review and approval. At can refer back to that.
Mr. Nowak:
Actually, they said that it should be subject to review by a Fire
Marshal.
Mr. Morrow:
Okay. Thais what I wanted to clear up. Thank you.
Mr. Shane:
Wouldn't that use have to be outside? Wouldn't the propane
tank sales and filling, doesn't that have to be outside?
Mr. Lafata:
Yes, it cannot be inside the building at all.
Mr. Shane:
Thais what I thought.
Mr. Walsh:
Let me just clarify. Your tanks presently are stored inside or
outside?
Mr. Lafata:
The tanks are stored outside only. They cannot be stored in the
building.
Mr. Walsh:
Any other questions? Is there anybody in the audience that
wishes to speak for or against this petition? Seeing no one, do
you have anything to add, sir?
Mr. Lafata:
No. Nothing. I covered everything.
Mr. Walsh:
A motion is in order.
On a motion by Piercecchi, seconded by Morrow, and adopted, it was
#05-60-2004 RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-18 submitted by ACO Hardware requesting
waiver use approval for the outside display and sales of
merchandise, in connection with a hardware business at 29567
Five Mile Road, located on the south side of Five Mile Road
between Middlebelt Road and Beatrice Avenue in the Northeast
% of Section 23, the Planning Commission does hereby
recommend that Petition 2004-04-02-18 be approved subject to
the following conditions:
21275
1. That the outdoor sales and display area shall be confined
to a portion of the sidewalk at the front of the subject store
unit that shall not extend more than 8 feet out from the
front wall of the store and shall not extend for a lineal
distance of more than 100 feet along the front wall;
2. Thal the outdoor sales and display of merchandise shall be
conducted in a manner that will insure that sufficient clear
space for pedestrian circulation is maintained on the
sidewalk at all times;
3. That the time period within which the outdoor display takes
place shall be limited to April 1 through October 1,
inclusive;
4. That there shall be no storage of flammable materials in
the outdoor display area;
5. That combustibles stored in the outdoor display area shall
be subject to review by the Fire Marshal; and
6. That the merchandise displayed on the sidewalk shall be
limited to bedding plants and polled shrubs, as provided for
under Section 11.03(L)(1)(d) of the Zoning Ordinance,
except underlhe circumstances that a modification to allow
the display on the sidewalk of bagged landscape materials,
concrete, mulch, dirt, and like products is granted by the
City Council by means of a separate resolution in which
two-thirds of the members of the City Council concur.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
21276
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh:
Mark, lel me ask a question. In Condition 4, we have a
prohibition of flammable material, and Condition 5 implies
permission to store combustibles. Is there a difference between
those two materials?
Mr. Taormina:
I think that was as suggested by the Fire Marshal. In their
correspondence they indicate that storage of flammable
materials would not be allowed and that storage of combustibles
shall be limited to and subject to their review.
Mr. Walsh:
A combustible would be a tank of propane and a flammable
might be a can of lighter fluid?
Mr. Piercecchi:
Gasoline.
Mr. Walsh:
Gasoline.
Mr. Taormina:
I do not know the precise differences between the two, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Walsh:
But we have something from the Fire Marshal making a
distinction and maybe we'll leave that item to our professional
staff. Is there any discussion?
Mr. Alanskas:
Just under Condition 6, it says that the merchandise displayed
on the sidewalk shall be limited to bedding plants and potted
shrubs only under 11.03. That excludes sand and concrete. Is
that correct, Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina:
Then it would be subject to approval by the City Council for any
materials others than those.
Mr. Alanskas:
In the meantime, all he can show there is shrubs and polled
plants.
Mr. Taormina:
That is correct.
Mr. Alanskas:
Do you understand that?
Mr. Lafata:
Yes. When I went before the Planning Board to petition for this,
they were aware of what we had out front, and I asked them
what we had to do? Do we have to eliminate this and they said
21277
as long as we are in the process of applying for the waiver, that
we can continue to sell what we have out there. Now, on the
propane tanks, I'll be more than happy to remove those from the
premises just as quickly as we can get them taken out of there.
Mr. Taormina: I would think that the Planning Commission in this circumstance
would want to offer its recommendation to the Council relative to
the other materials to be stored. Its been indicated by the
petitioner this evening that he would limit the storage to bagged
landscape materials, concrete, dirt, and like products, and the
Planning Commission's recommendation in this regard I think
would be welcomed by the City Council when this matter is
reviewed by them.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there a willingness on the part of the maker and support to do
so?
Mr. Piercecchi:
Do you have a problem with that?
Mr. Morrow:
I don't have a problem with that as long as we gel it right.
Mr. Shane:
I just want to make sure that whatever language we use does
not include those items I mentioned before, the lawn mowers
and the edgers and what not.
Mr. Walsh:
Wheelbarrows and so on. What Mr. Taormina has suggested,
and what I offered to Mr. Morrow and Mr. Piercecchi, is bagged
product.
Mr. LaPine:
I'm going to be voting against this proposal, not that I want to
deny the petitioner the opportunity to display his product, but
you know, sidewalks were made for pedestrian traffic. They
weren't made for storage and selling ofgoods. We have no way
really to police this. He can say what he wants and that's all
he's going to put out there, but from my observation over the
years, more and more things get out there. There's no way you
can control it unless you have inspector going around every
single day looking at these things. Therefore, once we start
allowing this, R's going to be everybody in the City, every
hardware store, any store, is going to want to display things on
the outside, and I just don't feel that's the right thing to do. So
I'm going to be voting no on this.
Mr. Walsh:
Thank you, Mr. LaPine. Are there any other comments? Would
the secretary please call the roll?
21278
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES:
Piercecchi, Morrow, Shane, Smiley, Walsh
NAYES:
Alanskas, La Pine
ABSTAIN:
None
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
Y I=1 k5 UJfM9=k 1101*]!F4,1Q,ISrEIK JPZ-] KI1il lPy
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-19, submitted by ACO Hardware requesting waiver use
approval for the outside display and sales of merchandise, in
connection with a hardware business at 37133 Six Mile Road,
located on the south side of Six Mile Road between Newburgh
Road and Fitzgerald Avenue in the Northwest %of Section 17.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence, Mr. Nowak?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 6, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required at this time. The legal description to be used with this
waiver petition is approved." The letter is signed by Robert J.
Schron, P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the
Livonia Fire & Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which
reads as follows: "This office has reviewed the site plan
submitted in connection with a request for waiver use approval
for outdoor display and storage of merchandise on property
located at the above -referenced address. We have no
objections to this proposal with the following stipulations. (1)
Storage of Flammable materials would not be allowed. (2)
Storage of combustibles shall be limited and subject to review."
The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The
third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 12, 2004,
which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in regards
to a proposal loran outside display and storage of merchandise.
21279
We have no objection to the plan as submitted." The letter is
signed by Wesley McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth
letter is from the Inspection Department, dated April 8, 2004,
which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 5,
2004, the above -referenced petition has been reviewed. The
following is noted. (1) This waiver use is being requested under
Section 11.03. Section 11.03(L)(1)(d) limits its temporary
sidewalk displays to bedding plants and potted shrubs from April
1 to October 1. Therefore, a separate resolution will be
required, specifically delineating the special requirements
waived or modified, in which two-thirds of the members of the
City Council must concur to be approved. (2) The time frame
for display and exact merchandise and area encompassed
should be noted. This Department has no further objections to
this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
Mr. Walsh:
Is the petitioner here this evening?
Mr. Bob Dodds, 37133 Six Mile Road, Livonia, MI 48154.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anything you'd like to add?
Mr. Dodds:
I don't have many fancy things. I do have a picture of our front
sidewalk. It's a two-sided picture showing the access and how
wide it is.
Mr. Walsh:
If you'll hand that to Ms. Roney, she will pass it around.
Mr. Dodds:
We're a slightly smaller store. We're about 10,000 square feet.
We're asking for a single row of pallets which is four feet deep,
len pallets wide, which is about 40 feel wide. This store has
about 84 feel frontage.
Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions from the Commissioners?
Mr. Shane:
You heard the discussion on the previous item.
Mr. Dodds:
Yes.
Mr. Shane:
Are you willing to hold your items to the things we talked about
there?
Mr. Dodds:
Yes. We don't have propane at our store. This is top soil, sand,
cypress mulch, those types of items. We don't have
21280
wheelbarrows out there or garbage cans. We don't have the
propane tank exchange at our store.
Mr. Morrow:
How long have you been doing the outside sales?
Mr. Dodds:
Thirty years.
Mr. Morrow:
Thirty years you've been doing it outside.
Mr. Dodds:
Its been a growing business for us loo. Every year it grows
more and more. I think one of your questions earlier is, why is it
outside? For carryout purposes loo. It's much easier to load up
people's cars for them. We do a lot of carryouts for customers
and it's a lot easier.
Mr. Alanskas:
I know I came and saw you about a year ago about your
frontage, how you had a lot of things out there, and you really
cleaned it up nicely. I commend you for that.
Mr. Dodds:
Thank you.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak for or
against this petition? Seeing no one, a motion is in order.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as this is the same request and we
had the same motion, I will offer an approving resolution but
only changing the initial statement, which is four feet out from
the front wall and 40 feet along the front wall and all the other
stipulations with the bags that are associated with the earlier
one be applied to this one.
On a motion by
Piercecchi, seconded by Shane, and adopted, it was
#05-61-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-19, submitted by ACO Hardware requesting
waiver use approval for the outside display and sales of
merchandise, in connection with a hardware business at 37133
Six Mile Road, located on the south side of Six Mile Road
between Newburgh Road and Fitzgerald Avenue in the
Northwest % of Section 17, the Planning Commission does
hereby recommend that Petition 2004-04-02-19 be approved
subject to the following conditions:
1. That the outdoor sales and display area shall be confined
to a portion of the sidewalk at the front of the subject store
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unit that shall not extend more than 4 feet out from the
front wall of the store and shall not extend for a lineal
distance of more than 40 feet along the front wall;
2. That the outdoor sales and display of merchandise shall be
conducted in a manner that will insure that sufficient clear
space for pedestrian circulation is maintained on the
sidewalk at all times;
3. That the time period within which the outdoor display lakes
place shall be limited to April 1 through October 1,
inclusive;
4. That there shall be no storage of flammable materials in
the outdoor display area;
5. That combustibles stored in the outdoor display area shall
be subject to review by the Fire Marshal; and
6. That the merchandise displayed on the sidewalk shall be
limited to bedding plants and polled shrubs, as provided for
under Section 11.03(L)(1)(d) of the Zoning Ordinance,
except under the circumstances that a modification to allow
the display on the sidewalk of bagged landscape materials,
concrete, mulch, dirt, and like products is granted by the
City Council by means of a separate resolution in which
two-thirds of the members of the City Council concur.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use complies with all of the general
waiver use standards and requirements as set forth in
Section 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
A roll call vole on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
21282
AYES:
Pieroecchi, Shane, Morrow, Smiley, Walsh
NAYES:
Alanskas, La Pine
ABSTAIN:
None
ABSENT:
None
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #12 PETITION 2004-04-02-20 GOLF RIDGE
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-20 submitted by Golf Ridge Properties, LLC, requesting
waiver use approval to construct a detached cluster housing
community at 35667 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side
of Eight Mile Road between Ellen Road and Newburgh Road in
the North Y of Section 5.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any correspondence?
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 7, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
reviewed the above-referencedpetition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this time. Additional right-of-way is not
required. The legal description on the plan is correct, however,
there appears to be a typographical error on the typed
attachment. The call on the seventh line should be
S.70024'55'W., 102.00 feet. The petitioner has shown the water
main being looped to Newburgh Road and Fitzgerald Avenue
and the sanitary sewers out letting to Seven Mile Road as we
discussed. These issues will require that the City grant
easements across the golf courses. The detention facilities and
the entrance to Eight Mile Road will require the approval of
Wayne County. In previous discussions with the petitioner, it
was our recommendation that consideration be given to the
recommendation contained in the City Storm Water
Management Plan, which recommended increasing the volume
of storage in the existing pond and drainage course on the Glen
Eden property. The plan currently submitted does not include
any work at the existing pond. We continue to recommend that
21283
this be considered." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron,
P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire &
Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which reads as follows:
'This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection
with a request to construct a detached cluster housing
community on property located on the south side of Eight Mile
Road between Ellen Road and Newburgh Road in the North X
of Section 5. We have no objections to this proposal with the
following stipulations: (1) Adequate hydrants shall be provided
andlocated with spacing consistent with residential areas. Most
remote hydrant shall flow 1,000 GPM with a residual pressure of
20 PSI. (2) Access around building shall be provided for
emergency vehicles with turning radius up to 65 feet wall-to-wall
and a minimum vertical clearance of 13X feet. (3) Minimum
diameter of cul-de-sac shall be at least 130 feet. (4) Any curves
or corner of streets shall accommodate emergency vehicles with
a turning radius of 65 feet wall-to-wall. (5) One side of all roads
shall be designated as a fire lane and shall be marked with
freestanding signs that have the words 'Fire Lane - No Parking'
painted in contrasting colors at a size and spacing approved by
the authority having jurisdiction." The letter is signed by Randall
D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The third letter is from the Division
of Police, dated April 16, 2004, which reads as follows: "We
have reviewed the plans in regards to the proposal to construct
a detached cluster housing community on the south side of
Eight Mile Road between Ellen Street and Newburgh Road. We
submit the following items for your consideration: (1)
Recommend a deceleration lane for eastbound Eight Mile Road
west of entrance. (2) Preliminary Site Plan indicates street
width of 28 feet Ifparking is allowed on both sides of the street,
we are concerned that there will not be adequate space for
emergency vehicles to drive down the street. Recommend
consideration of allowing parking on only one side of street. (3)
Cul-de-sac at Golf Ridge Court South has a 37 foot radius. We
do not believe that this radius will allow access by fire
department equipment. A wider radius may be required. (4)Off
road parking spaces are listed at 10 feet by 18 feet. All parking
spaces should be increased to 10 feet by 20 feet. (5)
Recommend sidewalks throughout the complex to allow for safe
travel by pedestrians. (6) Plans we reviewed did not indicate
streetlighting. We recommend shielded street lighting for crime
prevention and safety considerations. (7) Keep Right (R4-7)
signs should be installed at both ends of the entrance median to
indicate direction vehicles should travel. (8) Stop sign installed
at Eight Mile for vehicles exiting the complex. (9) No Parking on
both sides of the entrance/exit of complex south of 8 Mile Road
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to Goff Ridge Parkway. (10) Yield signs should be placed at the
following intersections: (a) Northeast comer of Goff Ridge
Parkway and Goff Ridge Court South, (b) Northeast comer of
Goff Ridge Parkway and Golf Ridge Trail (south end of Golf
Ridge Toil) and southeast comer of Goff Ridge Parkway and
Goff Ridge Trail (north end of Goff Ridge Toil), (c) Southeast
comer of Goff Ridge Parkway and unnamed street north of
Building #113 and also at the west end of the unnamed street
near Building #118, (d) At Goff Ridge Park East, for east and
west bound Goff Ridge Parkway. Itis our recommendation that
yield signs be used other than stop signs based upon warrants
for the use of stop signs and yield signs. The Michigan Manual
of Uniform Traffic Control Devices recommends that prior to the
installation of a stop sign, consideration should be given to less
restrictive measures. The yield sign will assign the right-of-way,
requiring vehicles to stop only when another vehicle assigned
the right -0f --way is present" The letter is signed by Wesley
McKee, Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated April 27, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 6, 2004, the above -
referenced petition has been reviewed. This Department has no
objections to this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop,
Assistant Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the
correspondence.
Mr. Walsh: Are there any questions or comments for staff? Is the petitioner
here this evening?
Carl Creighton, Esq., Brashear, Tangom, Gallagher, Creighton and Amann, LLP,
33300 Five Mile Road, Suite 210, Livonia, Michigan 48154. We
are the attorneys on behalf of the petitioner. With me tonight
are all the principals of the developer as well as several
representatives of Glen Eden Cemetery for any questions that
you may have. This has been a long and arduous meeting.
This has already been before you on the rezoning. We've
already had a study session. I won't belabor any of those points
other than to say that the developer has taken the Planning
Department, Engineering Department, Public Safety and your
comments all into consideration. I believe you've all received a
revised site plan addressing many of the issues that were raised
in the letters that Mr. Nowak just read. Many of those changes
have already been incorporated into the site plan. We have
added a second brick selection and are considering a third. We
have it available for you to look at if you choose to look at it
tonight. We are investigating your concerns regarding windows
as well as any other concerns that may be raised as we go
21285
along through the process. I think the petitioner has tried to be
as absolutely cooperative with all of the requests of all of the
various entities within the City, both staff, political and
commission at every step of the way. Our one request tonight
would be that, and it's very presumptuous to assume that
there's going to be an approving resolution, but we would ask
that the action of the Planning Commission, if favorable, be
given immediate effect because we have discussed with Council
President Taylor as well as Mayor Engebrelson a proposed
schedule to keep us on track so that we might gel to the point
where we can be permitted and actually begin construction of
some of these units at the very end of June or first of July. We'd
be happy to entertain questions that you have, and if you do
want to see the additional brick selection, we'd be happy to
bring the board out for you.
Mr. Walsh:
Why don't we open the floor to questions. Mr. Piercecchi?
Mr. Piercecchi:
I think you made the nghl decision to add additional brick colors.
You mentioned windows. Are you changing any of the
elevations and adding windows?
Mr. Creighton:
Its still being considered where it's practical. Obviously, where
it will be required because of the rooms actually being liveable
space as opposed to attic space, and we're looking also at the
places where there would be only trusses behind and at least
giving that consideration.
Mr. Piercecchi:
I was particularly interested in one of your elevations which had
an optional room up there.
Mr. Creighton:
Yes, sir.
Mr. Piercecchi:
And the only way they got a window was to buy your optional
package. Well, those people might want to finish it on their own
sometime down the road, and if you had a window there, at
least that would eliminate a real problem if they want to finish a
room. They need a window.
Mr. Creighton:
Mr. Piercecchi, I am not an architect, but I don't believe the
proposed window would make any sense on that one elevation
that we discussed at the study session. I think the room would
be forward ofthal. Ilwould be in addition lolhe side profile, and
there would be a window there. The only side profile in that one
elevation that we had discussion about that didn't have any
windows would have nothing more than prefabricated wood
21286
rafters. As the architect explained, if somebody wanted a
window, we certainly could put one there, but to put one there,
there would be nothing to look at either in or out. We'd have to
put a painted black board behind it.
Mr. Piercecchi:
In my opinion, and your architect stated that he would make
some changes, is just the bleakness of it. It's barren. You've
got big sections of vinyl. It's very barren. That's what I thought.
I looked at as the aesthetic value also. I realize they're on the
side.
Mr. Creighton:
Oh, I understand.
Mr. Piercecchi:
That one plan where you have that optional room, you should
definitely have a window there. Put the room in. If they want to
tum it in five years later, they've got that option. They've got a
window there. They can't very well get out there and cul a hole
later on. But your man said he'd cooperate, and I believe him.
Mr. Creighton:
Oh, absolutely, and it will be market driven. Obviously if nobody
likes that, they're not going to buy that house.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Some of my concerns would be addressed in reference to
windows?
Mr. Creighton:
Absolutely.
Mr. Piercecchi:
You're a fine operation, and you have obviously very high
integrity. I'm satisfied with your answers that you're looking into
it and if it's at all a possibility, you will accommodate those
areas.
Mr. Creighton:
Yes.
Mr. Shane:
I know that you have a feeling that a deceleration lane would not
be required, but since the Police Department mentioned it, have
you had any discussions with the Engineering Department
about that or the County in regard to a deceleration lane?
Mr. Creighton:
I would have to refer to Mr. Deutchman.
James Deutchman, Golf Ridge Properties, LLC, 6020 W. Maple Road, Suite 503,
West Bloomfield, Michigan 48322. Yes. I spoke to Bob
Schron. We spoke in great depth. He said it will still be a
function of the County control on that. I think its Oakland
21287
County, that section of the road. He said in all likelihood they
wont approve it.
Mr. Shane:
Would not?
Mr. Deutchman:
Would not. But that's pretty much his guess.
Mr. Shane:
Thank you.
Mr. LaPine:
At the last meeting, I had three or four things I was interested in.
Number one, I understand now we're going to gel brick. Now, is
it going to be one, two or three or four? I want to know because
I want it in the motion.
Mr. Deutchman:
We have two now. We're looking at a third one. The third one
came in and it had like a lint from the glue that they used on the
brick to hold onto the board. It didn't look right so we didn't want
to present it tonight. So we have two bricks. We're looking at a
third one.
Mr. LaPine:
So if we put in the motion that there will be three bricks ...
Mr. Deutchman:
For sure, we've got two. We just want to make sure of the third
one before we agree to it. We want to make sure it's only
because of the glue and not because of something in the actual
brick itself that gave it a green tint.
Mr. LaPine:
Well, then how can I put that in the motion?
Mr. Walsh:
What I'm going to suggest is just go with the three.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. I'm satisfied with that. The second thing I have is what
Mr. Shane brought it up, the deceleration lane. I still think that's
important. I don't understand why Oakland County is involved.
This is on the Livonia side of the road.
Mr. Deutchman:
They alternate. Every other mile the opposite county has
control of both sides.
Mr. LaPine:
Is that right? That's still an option. There's a possibility.
Mr. Deutchman:
Its a function of the county.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. That takes care of that. Now the third thing I have, I'm
still interested in streetlights. Apparently, you people dont think
they're important. The Police Department thinks they're
21288
important. I think they're kind of important. We like to have
streetlights for safely more than anything else. Has there been
any movement on that?
Mr. Deulchman:
What we don't want to do is over light it, and I don't think we're
going to do that with this. We're keeping things at a human
level. The bollards are about 42 or 48 inches high, and then the
lamps that are on each home will be approximately six feel or so
up the wall.
Mr. LaPine:
Before you go on, the lamps on the homes you say will help
lightthe streets. Are they solar lights or what if the homeowner
doesn't want to put them on?
Mr. Deutchman:
They have no control. They're on photocells.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay.
Mr. Deulchman:
All the lighting is on photocells. When it gets dark, they all go
on.
Mr. LaPine:
The next question I have, when a person moves into one of
these condos, it's all landscaped and sodded. It is going to be
grass or sod?
Mr. Deutchman:
Sod.
Mr. LaPine:
You're going to vary the landscaping on these homes. Is that
correct?
Mr. Deulchman:
Each home has a different landscape plan.
Mr. LaPine:
Okay. So far so good. Streetlights - I'd still like to see that
happen. Now, it has never been brought up until I heard it
tonight. Sidewalks. You never did consider putting sidewalks
here?
Mr. Deulchman:
We do. We have a complete walkway system. Its the pathway
system that meanders through the development. You've got to
look kind of closely because of the way ...
Mr. LaPine:
Well, maybe my eyesight is going bad. But there is going to be
some kind of walkway?
Mr. Deutchman:
Yes. It's four fool wide paved walkway.
21289
Mr. LaPine:
Your location sign -is that going to be illuminated anyway from
the inside?
Mr. Deutchman:
Yes. We're talking about the stone one?
Mr. LaPine:
The stone one.
Mr. Deutchman:
Yes.
Mr. Alanskas:
First of all, I'd like to say I have never had a more complete,
thorough packet like you gave us.
Mr. Deutchman:
Oh, thank you.
Mr. Alanskas:
Its wonderful. I really appreciate that. Now you just mentioned,
you said when they glue the brick. What do you mean?
Mr. Deutchman:
On the sample boards.
Mr. Alanskas:
Oh, I see. We're not getting veneer brick here. You scared me.
Mr. Deutchman:
The glue they used on the sample board had a kind of greenish
lint on the brick.
Mr. Shane:
I think the audience would be interested in the prices of these
homes.
Mr. Deutchman:
The expectation is that they will be in the low $300,000's -
$325,000, $335,000, $340,000. We're not 100 percent certain
of all the numbers, but the lower price would probably be the
lower square footage unit, and as they gel larger, they will be a
little pricier.
Mr. Walsh:
Does anyone else have any other questions? Is there anybody
in the audience that wishes to speak for or against this petition?
Seeing no one, a motion is in order.
On a motion by
Morrow, seconded by Smiley, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-62-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-20 submitted by Golf Ridge Properties,
LLC, requesting waiver use approval to construct a detached
cluster housing community at 35667 Eight Mile Road, located
on the south side of Eight Mile Road between Ellen Road and
Newburgh Road in the North % of Section 5, the Planning
21290
Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2004-04-02-
20 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the Master Deed, which complies with Article XX,
Sections 20.01 through 20.06 of Zoning Ordinance #543, is
hereby approved;
2. That the Site Plan marked Sheet 1 of Job No. 03092
prepared by Arpee/Donnan, Inc., with a revision date of
April 26, 2004, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
3. That the final unit designs shall be substantially similar to
the Floor Plans marked Sheets SA -1, SA4, SA -7 and SA -
10, all with a revision date of April 4, 2004, prepared by
MGA Architects, provided that all units be built with the
master bedroom located on the firstfloor orlhe main living
area;
4. That the Building Elevations Plans marked Sheets SA -2,
SA -3, SA -5, SAA, SAA, SA -9, SA -11 and SA -12, all dated
April 4, 2004, are hereby approved and shall be adhered
to;
5. That the amount of brick on the various models shall be
substantially in accordance with the figures stated on the
chart titled "Calculations of the Ratio of Brick to Siding on
the House Elevations" as prepared by MGA Architects;
6. That at least three (3) colors of brick shall be used in the
construction of the homes;
7. That all brick used in the construction of the homes shall
be full face 4 -inch brick, no exceptions;
8. That the proposed entryway ground sign, which shall
consist of a nameplate mounted on a wall constructed of
stone with a limestone cap, shall conform to the sign detail
provided on Sheet 2 of the Site Plans for Job No. 03092,
dated March 18, 2004, prepared by Arpee/Donnan, Inc.;
9. That the Landscape Plans marked Sheet 1 and Sheet Z
dated April 13, 2004 and April 18, 2004, respectively,
prepared by Arpee/Donnan, Inc. are hereby approved and
shall be adhered to;
21291
10. That the petitioner shall obtain the necessary permits from
both Wayne County and the Michigan Department of
Environmental Quality for construction of the storm water
management system, and that any changes to the design
of this system which substantially modifies the layout of the
project shall come back to the Planning Commission and
City Council for their review and approval;
11. That this approval shall incorporate the following
comments listed in the correspondence dated April 16,
2004 from the Traffic Bureau of the Division of Police:
- "Keep Right' (R4-7) signs should be installed at both
ends of the entrance median to indicate direction
vehicles should travel;
Stop sign installed at Eight Mile for vehicles exiting the
complex;
"No Parking" signs on both sides of the entrance/exit of
complex south of Eight Mile Road to Golf Ridge
Parkway;
- Yield signs should be placed at the following
intersections:
- Northeast corner of Golf Ridge Parkway and Golf
Ridge Court South;
- Northeast corner of Golf Ridge Parkway and Golf
Ridge Trail (south end of Golf Ridge Trail) and
southeast corner of Golf Ridge Parkway and Golf
Ridge Trail (north end of Golf Ridge Trail);
- Southeast comer of Golf Ridge Parkway and
unnamed street north of Building #113 and also at
the west end of the unnamed street near Building
#118;
- Al Golf Ridge Park East, for east and west bound
Golf Ridge Parkway;
12. That the petitioner shall comply with the stipulations listed
in the correspondence dated April 13, 2004 from the
Livonia Fire and Rescue Division of the Department of
Public Safety:
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Adequate hydrants shall be provided and located with
spacing consistent with residential areas; most remote
hydrant shall flow 1,000 GPM with a residual pressure
of 20 PSI;
Access around building shall be provided for
emergency vehicles with turning radius up to 65 feet
wall -lo -wall and a minimum vertical clearance of 13%
feet;
Minimum diameter of cul-cle-sac shall be at least 130
feet;
Any curves or corner of streets shall accommodate
emergency vehicles with a turning radius of 65 feet
wall -lo -wall;
One side of all roads shall be designated as a fire lane
and shall be marked with freestanding signs that have
the words "Fire Lane - No Parking' painted in
contrasting colors at a size and spacing approved by
the authority having jurisdiction;
13. That the issue of a deceleration lane for eastbound Eight
Mile Road west of the entrance to the proposed
development shall be referred to the Engineering
Department for a report and recommendation; and
14. That the specific plans and chart referenced in this
approving resolution shall be submitted to tie Inspection
Department at the time the building permits are applied for.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed plan is in compliance with all of the
special and general waiver use standards and
requirements as set forth in Section 20.02A and 19.06 of
the Zoning Ordinance #543;
2. That the proposed use is compatible to and in harmony
with the surrounding uses in the area;
3. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
21293
4. That the proposal represents a reasonable and well
designed land use solution for a land area that contains
acute angles and narrow dimensions so as to make
conventional subdivision development physically
impractical.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh:
Mr. Alanskas, did you have a question?
Mr. Alanskas:
Yes. Through the chair, Mark, I may have overlooked it, but on
the site plan, I want to make sure that none of the electric
meters on these homes are in front of the buildings.
Mr. Taormina:
I don't know the answer to that question.
Mr. Deulchman:
The meters will be predominantly on the sides and sometimes in
the rear.
Mr. Alanskas:
But nothing in the front?
Mr. Deulchman:
Not by design.
Mr. Alanskas:
Okay. Thankyou.
Mr. LaPine:
Two questions. Number one, do you know at this point what the
maintenance cost is going to be?
Mr. Deutchman:
We're guessing, but basically what we're going to do is all the
grass and all the snow. We figure something in the range of
about $200 a month, roughly on average.
Mr. LaPine:
When somebody wants to purchase one of these units, will they
receive a copy of this Master Deed before they sign?
Mr. Deulchman:
There's a whole procedure. They have to acknowledge receipt
and sign a receipt for everything.
Mr. LaPine:
Because if you read through all these things, there's a lot of
things people might think, "Oh, I want a swimming pool,' and
they find out they can't have it.
Mr. Deulchman:
Nope. They have to. It's a requirement.
21294
Mr. LaPine: I didn't hear anything in the motion about the choice of three
bricks. Can you make sure that gets in there?
Mr. Morrow: We'll letlhe staff put that in the conditions.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
Mr. Walsh: We have a request for a waiver of the seven days.
On a motion by LaPine, seconded by Morrow, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-63-2004 RESOLVED, that the City Planning Commission does hereby
determine to waive the provisions of Section 10 of Article IV of
the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure regarding the
seven-day period concerning effectiveness of Planning
Commission resolutions in connection with Petition 2004-04-02-
20 submitted by Golf Ridge Properties, LLC, requesting waiver
use approval to construct a detached cluster housing
community at 35667 Eight Mile Road, located on the south side
of Eight Mile Road between Ellen Road and Newburgh Road in
the North % of Section 5,
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
ITEM #13 PETITION 2004-04-02-21 QUIZNO'S
Ms. Smiley, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda, Petition 2004-
04-02-21 submitted by M&M Enterprises of Michigan requesting
waiver use approval for outside seating in connection with a
limited service restaurant (Quizno's Subs) at 33602 Seven Mile
Road in the shopping center located on the north side of Seven
Mile Road between Farmington Road and Norwich Road in the
Southeast % of Section 4.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the properly under petition plus the
existing zoning of the surrounding area.
Mr. Nowak: There are four items of correspondence. The first item is from
the Engineering Division, dated April 8, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuantto yourrequest, the Engineering Division has
21295
reviewed the above -referenced petition. We have no objections
to the proposal at this. Additional right-of-way is not required at
this time. The legal description to be used with this waiver
petition is provided." The letter is signed by Robert J. Schron,
P.E., City Engineer. The second letter is from the Livonia Fire &
Rescue Division, dated April 13, 2004, which reads as follows:
"This office has reviewed the site plan submitted in connection
with a request to provide outside seating in connection with a
limited service restaurant on property located at the above -
referenced address. We have no objections to this proposal."
The letter is signed by Randall D. Tromblay, Fire Marshal. The
third letter is from the Division of Police, dated April 16, 2004,
which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the plans in regards
to the proposal for outdoor seating. We have no objections to
the plan as submitted." The letter is signed by Wesley McKee,
Sergeant, Traffic Bureau. The fourth letter is from the
Inspection Department, dated April 16, 2004, which reads as
follows: "Pursuant to your request of April 6, 2004, the above -
referenced petition has been reviewed. The following is noted.
(1) This site in conjunction with the landlord, Dominic Soave,
never completed all the original conditions of approval for
Quano's under Planning Commission 03-04-02-07 and Council
Resolution #303-03. We would recommend holding the new
request in abeyance until completion of the previously required
items is accomplished or a schedule of completion, with
appropriate bonding, satisfaction to the Commission and
Council has been obtained. (2) The total number of seating (in
and out) must be posted at 30. (3) The parking lot needs
cleaning, repair and resealing, especially in the rear area. (See
CR #303-03) (4) The barrier free parking is not property signed.
The rear accessible space should be re -located to the front to
enable entry at the font, along with proper accessible ramping.
(See CR #303-03) (5) A leaking grease bin is located in the
northwest comer of the lot and taking a parking space. (See CR
#303-03) (6) An unenclosed dumpster is located at the east
side of the rear parking area and is also taking a parking space
and blocking the aisle. (See CR #303-03) (7) Five front
sidewalk slabs at the southeast comer of the site need to be
replaced. They are broken or nonexistent. (8) The landscape
beds and borders need maintenance, repair and/or
replacement. (See CR #303-03) (9) This expansion will require
the use of 6 additional parking spaces. (10) The entry door has
not been replaced with the required barrier free compliant door.
(See CR #303-03) This Department has no further objections to
this petition." The letter is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant
Director of Inspection. That is the extent of the correspondence.
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Mr. Walsh:
Are there any questions or comments for the staff? Is the
petitioner here this evening?
Mark Lambert,
8905 Houghton, Livonia, Michigan 48150.
Mr. Walsh:
Is there anything you'd like to add?
Mr. Lambert:
Yes. I sent a letter addressing quite a few of the issues that
Alex had brought up. I missed the last three items. They
weren't on the fax that I got so I didn't address those. Basically,
the landlord has done all except for enclosing the dumpsler.
The grease bin that's in the back does not belong to me. It
belongs to one of the other companies in the strip mall there, a
catering company. We don't do any cooking at our location.
We just toast. So I have no control over that particular item. As
far as the dumpsler being enclosed, I've talked to the landlord
about it. They tell me they're working at it. They're looking into
different things to do. That's as far as I can go with it. I have no
leverage to use on the landlord. I'm in the contract as long as
the City says I can occupy that space. He's in compliance with
our agreement. But I will address anyqueslions.
Mr. Alanskas:
What kind of a maintenance program do you have in regards to
keeping the outside clean from refuse?
Mr. Lambert:
We clean it every night as far as our facility goes. We clean the
front. If you've been to our place, there's a travel agency right
next door to us and there's us, and we're in an indented area.
We clean that area at night. We take our trash out once a day
at the end of the day and we put it in the dumpsler. We do
close the dumpslerdoors.
Mr. Alanskas:
Because unfortunately, after 5:00, usually teenagers will come
and they'll buy a pop or they'll buy a sandwich and they'll sit out
there. And you've got a trash bin right there for them but they're
too busy eating and talking on a cell phone or playing video
games and they throw it on the sidewalk. You know that's a
problem.
Mr. Lambert:
Yeah. We police the area. We keep an eye on it.
Mr. Alanskas:
Do you go out there hourly?
Mr. Lambert:
Not necessarily hourly, but as we can. When we police the
dining room, we look out the window and police the area. We
21297
do find cups. We've found some glasses. We've found car
parts.
Mr. Alanskas:
The help that you have in the evening, is that young teenagers
that work there also or is that older people?
Mr. Lambert:
Well, the majority of our help in the evening is teenagers. I'm
there five days a week, sometimes six days a week, in the
evening. I only work in the evening at the location. When I'm
not there, we have two assistant managers. One is my
daughter. She's 21 years old. And another one is a person that
we hired, and he is 20, 1 believe.
Mr. Alanskas:
The reason why I ask that is because I've been to two different
facilities, which I will not mention, but the teenagers that work
behind the counter, what they'll do is, they'll come out and go sit
at a table with their friends. They'll call their friends up
and say,
hey, come out and let's have a little pow wow. So
inside the
store is not being taken care of, nor is the outside being taken
care of.
Mr. Lambert:
They don't do that at my store.
Mr. Alanskas:
Okay. Thankyou.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Sir, you said that the grease container out there belongs to
another tenant?
Mr. Lambert:
It belongs to the business at the west end of the strip mall. It
just says catering; it's the name of the business.
Mr. Piercecchi:
And he uses it?
Mr. Lambert:
Yeah, that's his.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Are you sure he's using it?
Mr. Lambert:
No. But he does catering. He deep fries chicken, so I'm
assuming that's the purpose of that being there.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Okay. So he fries. So any grease that goes in there, that
catering service is responsible for putting it in there. Have you
looked at that lately? Do you know it's leaking? And there's a
dead animal on lop of it. Its a shame.
21298
Mr. Lambert: Yeah, I looked at it after you were out at the store. Yeah, I
heard about it. I went out and looked at it, and I called the
landlord and I expressed concern about. They have not gotten
back to me addressing that particular issue yet, but they are
aware of it, and I haven't seen the catering genfleman down at
the end to talk to him about it yet.
Mr. LaPine: I was there on a Sunday afternoon. You were the only place
open on Sunday. And the dumpsler was open. And I know
your garbage was in there, because you put it in while plastic
bags and they were tied, but it was open and there was a
couple rolls laying out on the pavement, which cause rodents. I
live in that area, and over the summer we were having some
problems in there. I'm not saying it's from your restaurant. I
don't know where it's from. We had the City out on three
different occasions. Three different homeowners had
complained. I don't understand it. Now I went it to talk to them.
It might have been your daughter. She was very offensive of
the fad that I even questioned her. "We're not the only tenant in
this building." But you've got to realize one thing: the travel
agent doesn't generale anything that rodents are going to go
after. BoRics doesn't generate anything. The karate place
doesn't generale anything. The florist - I don't know if they like
flowers or not. Maybe they do. But your place generates the
biggest amount of garbage that rodents can go after. So it's
imperative upon you people to keep the front of that thing closed
and the lop down. And I've talked to Dominic Soave about
getting that thing enclosed. And even after it's enclosed, it
doesn't do any good unless the people there keep the place
closed.
Mr. Lambert: We lake our garbage out once a day, at the end of the day, and
I know the doors are closed. On the weekend, the florist is open
on the weekend or he's working there. That's my biggest
complaint that I have between him now breaking down his
boxes and throwing them in there. He leaves the dumpsler
open. He leaves lids open. We've talked about it and for the
most part, he's been pretty good about it. And I talked to
everybody in the facility about it this week, loo, if they could
please make sure the doors are closed due to the fad that we
put food in there and it can attract rodents.
Mr. LaPine: How often is that dumpster dumped?
Mr. Lambert: Normally it's once a week, but I notice thatthis week, and I dont
know if R's because the florist requested it because of Mothers
21299
Day coming, that they did an extra emptying this week. For the
most part, we don't fill it all the way up, but only when we come
on holidays when they get extra activity at the florist or the end
of the year when the travel agency cleans out their catalogs and
sluff, then we get extra dumps.
Mr. Alanskas:
You dont have any outside speakers there do you?
Mr. Lambert:
No.
Mr. Alanskas:
I know because you have music inside.
Mr. Lambert:
Yes, we have music inside and that music is supplied by
Quizno's corporate. I have no control over the type of song.
Mr. Morrow:
There's been a whole litany of things that seem to be not
adhered to from prior Council resolutions.
Mr. Lambert:
Well, some of them I didn't know about. The landscaping has
been done. They did the landscaping. The parking lot, they did
stripe it and they did clean it Iasi October when they were
supposed to. Over the winter it has gotten damaged and come
apart. The barrier free door issue, I didn't know that the kick sill
at the bottom was part of it. I thought it was just the width,
ramps and that kind of sluff. I just found out when Alex came
out. He pointed that out to me. I've got that issue being taken
care of right now. I've ordered the compliant part for it, which I'll
have in a week or two. So I'm addressing everything that I can
as it comes up and anything that's in my power.
Mr. Morrow:
That was coming through to me. I'm sure you're doing
everything you can, but there's probably some items on there
beyond your control. I was just wondering, apparently there's
some old outstanding situations. Is there anyway that citations
can be issued to gel this done?
Mr. Walsh:
We have a couple choices. Certainly, the Inspection
Department can issue a citation. If we want to move forward
and help the petitioner out, we can give him approval and
subject it to completion of these items, or let him move forward
but request a schedule of completion with appropriate bonding
from the landlord.
Mr. Morrow:
I don't want to hold this petitioner up because I think he's
addressing everything he can address, but I guess if we're ever
going to have to get this cleared up, we better put some teeth in
21300
it. Whether that's a bond or whether it's whatever it has to be,
I'd be open to that suggestion, but I don't want to hold up the
petitioner, but I would like to gel the site brought into
compliance.
Mr. Walsh:
I think the best way to do that would be to use the schedule of
completion with appropriate bonding, if that's the pleasure of the
Commission.
Mr. Morrow:
Thal would be my pleasure.
Mr. Piercecchi:
I concur with Commissioner Morrow. We've got to gel that area
cleaned up and if we can gel bonding or something of that
nature, fine. But there are certain areas there that have to be
rectified. We don't wantto hold this guy up, but we are holding
him up if we hold things in abeyance. I don't think we've got any
choice.
Mr. Walsh:
Lets see if we gel a motion on the table first.
Mr. Lambert:
Is there a way we can address this where ... I mean I want to
get it taken care of but we're looking for outside sealing, which
we're going to run out of time real fast before its effective.
Mr. Walsh:
I will seek a motion and hopefully it will be one that will allow
you to proceed with a schedule of completion and appropriate
bonding so you can gel your seats out there. If the landlord
doesn't perform, then there will be a penalty. You're still going
to have to work him.
Mr. Lambert:
Oh, I will.
Mr. Walsh:
But I think that's our best bet. If there is no further discussion,
I'm going to seek a motion.
On a motion by
Shane, seconded by Alanskas, and unanimously adopted, it was
#05-64-2004
RESOLVED, that pursuant to a Public Hearing having been
held by the City Planning Commission on May 4, 2004, on
Petition 2004-04-02-21 submitted by M&M Enterprises of
Michigan requesting waiver use approval for outside seating in
connection with a limited service restaurant (Quizno's Subs) at
33602 Seven Mile Road in the shopping center located on the
north side of Seven Mile Road between Farmington Road and
Norwich Road in the Southeast % of Section 4, the Planning
21301
Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2004-04-02-
21 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That the outdoor dining shall be confined to a portion of the
sidewalk directly in front of the subject store unit as
illustrated on the Proposed Outdoor Sealing Plan prepared
by Foresla Group Architects, received by the Planning
Commission on April 8, 2004;
2. That the maximum number of outdoor seats shall not
exceed 10;
3. That this approval for additional seats is applicable to the
outdoor dining area only and shall not be construed as to
permit additional seating inside the building;
4. That the total number of seats (inside and outside) must be
posted at 30;
5. That the five broken or missing sidewalk slabs at the
southeast comer of the site shall be replaced;
6. That the following issues as listed in the correspondence
dated April 16, 2004 from the Inspection Department,
which were required to be rectified in connection with the
original waiver use approval for the subject Quizno's Sub
Shop as specified in Council Resolution #303-03, shall be
completed prior to the issuance of a Zoning Compliance
Permit for the outdoor dining or, in the alternative, a
schedule of completion, with appropriate bonding,
satisfactory to the Planning Commission and City Council
shall be obtained prior to the issuance of a Zoning
Compliance permit:
Cleaning, repair and resealing of the parking lot,
especially in the rear area;
Relocating a handicapped accessible parking space to
the front with proper accessible ramping and signage;
The leaking grease pit located in the northwest corner
of the parking lot shall be replaced or removed from the
site;
Construction of a dumpster enclosure in the rear
parking area;
21302
Maintenance and repair of landscape beds and border;
Replacement of the entry door with the required barrier
free compliant door;
7. That the outdoor dining shall be conducted in a manner
that will insure that sufficient clear space for pedestrian
circulation is maintained on the sidewalk at all limes;
8. That a trash receptacle will be provided for the outdoor
dining area; and
9. That the specific plan referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Department
at the time of application for the Zoning Compliance
Permit.
Subject to the preceding conditions, this petition is approved for
the following reasons:
1. That the proposed use is in compliance with all the special
and general waiver use standards and requirements as set
forth in Sections 10.03 and 19.06 of the Zoning Ordinance
#543;
2. That the subject site has the capacity to accommodate the
proposed use; and
3. That the increased seating requested is outdoor sealing
and therefore seasonal in nature and, consequently, will
have a minimal effect on the normal operation of the
restaurant and adjacent uses in the area.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that notice of the above hearing was
given in accordance with the provisions of Section 19.05 of
Zoning Ordinance #543, as amended.
Mr. Walsh: Is there any discussion?
Mr. LaPine: Under the one condition where it says "leaking grease pit
located in the northwest comer of the parking lot shall be
removed from the site" or replaced. If its leaking and it's
needed, I'd rather see them replace it than try to repair it.
Mr. Walsh: If there is no objections, that will be added.
21303
Mr. Alanskas:
But he's saying it's not his.
Mr. LaPine:
I know it isn't, but it's part of Dominic's problem.
Mr. Walsh:
Sir, what we're trying to do is have the landlord comply with all
the things he was to comply with in the first instance. It puts you
in an unfortunate spot, and we want you to know that we value
your business. We want you to move forward. We're trying to
our best given that we only gel a couple cracks with landlords to
gel things improved when they've fallen behind. This is one that
we have on this site. That being said, what we're trying to do is
give the accommodations so you can gel moving forward. We'll
be able to put a little pressure on the landlord through the
bonding requirement.
Mr. Lambert:
Okay. They have another tenant leaving so you'll have another
chance to put pressure on him.
Mr. LaPine:
As I understand Condition 6, that he cannot get an issue of a
zoning compliance permit to operate the outdoor dining until
such time as either Dominic cleans up the areas that have to be
cleaned up or post a bond.
Mr. Walsh:
That's correct.
Mr. LaPine:
So you can't operate yet.
Mr. Lambert:
Correct.
Mr. Walsh:
That's why I mentioned earlier you're going to have to go to
work with your landlord.
Mr. Lambert:
I'll do what I can.
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution
adopted. It will go on to City Council with an approving
resolution.
21304
ITEM #14 APPROVAL OF MINUTES 882'0 Public Hearings &
Regular Meeting
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, announced the next item on the agenda, Approval of the
Minutes of the 882nd Public Hearings and Regular Meeting held
on March 23, 2004.
On a motion by Alanskas, seconded by Piercecchi, and unanimously adopted, it
was
#05-65-2004 RESOLVED, that the Minutes of 882n° Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held by the Planning Commission on March
23, 2004, are hereby approved.
A roll call vote on the foregoing resolution resulted in the following:
AYES: Alanskas, Piercecchi, LaPine, Shane, Morrow,
Smiley, Walsh
NAYS: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
Mr. Walsh, Chairman, declared the motion is carded and the foregoing resolution
adopted.
On a motion duly made, seconded and unanimously adopted, the 884th Public
Hearings and Regular Meeting held on May 4, 2004, was adjourned at 1124
p.m.
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
Carol A. Smiley, Secretary
ATTEST:
John Walsh, Chairman