HomeMy WebLinkAboutPLANNING MINUTES 2001-08-2118732
MINUTES OF THE 83e PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGFLAI
HELD BY THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF LIVONIA
On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, the City Planning Commission of the City of Livonia held its
830n Public Hearings and Regular Meeting in the Livonia City Hall, 33000 Civic Cent
Drive, Livonia, Michigan
Mr. James McCann, Chairman. called the meeting to order at 7:30 pm
Members present James C. McCann Dan Piemecchi HG Shane
William LaPme Robert Alawkas Linda Dolan
Members absent: Now
Messrs. Mark Taomma, Plarm ng Director, AI Nowak, Planner IV, Scott Miller, Planner III,
and Robby Williams, Program Supervisor, were also present
Chmman McCain informed the audience that if a petition on fmcghYs agenda involves a
rezoning request this Commission makes arecmmunendation to the City Council who, in tum,
will hold its own public hearing, make the final deternmumon as to whether a petition is
approved or denied The Planning Commission holds the only public hearing on a request for
preliminary plat and/or vacating petition The Corm issiods recommendation is forwarded to
the City Council for the final determination as to whether a plat is accepted or rejected If a
petition requesting a waiver of we or site plan approval is denied tonight, the petitioner has
ten days in which to appeal the decision, in writing, to the City Council. Resolutions adopted
by the City Planning Commission become effective seven (7) days atter the date of adoption
The Planning Commission and the professional staff have reviewed each of these petitions
upon then filing The staff has banished the Commission wiPo both approving and denying
resolutions, which the Commission may, or may not, use depending on the outcome of the
proceedings tonight
ITEM#1 PETITION 2001-07-01-08 Franco Facchim,DDS
Mr. Piercecrlq Secretary, announced the fust item on the agenda is Petition 2001-07-01-08
by Franco Facchini, DDS, proposing to rezone property located on the west
side of Farmington Road between Clanta Avenue and Pickford Avenue in the
NP. 1/4 of Section 9 from R-3 to OS.
Mr. McCann: We have received a fax on August 14, 2001, from Fanco Facchim, DDS
slating they wish m withdraw thein Petition 2001-07-01-08 for the reason that
the property has been sold to another buyer.
Mr. McCann: A motion is in order.
On a motion by Mr. LaPine, seconded by Mr. Alawkas and unanimously approved it was
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#8-129-2001 RESOLVED that, Laving considered a faxed memo received by the Planning
Deparhnent on August 14, 2001, an Petition 2001-07-01-08 by Frown
FacchmS DDS, proposing to rezone property located on the west side of
Farrington Road between Clarity Avenue and Pickford Avenne in the N.E.
1/4 of Section 9 from R-3 to OS, the Planning Commission does hereby concur
in that request and declares that Petition 2001-07-01-08 is hereby withdrawn.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted
ITEM #2 PETITION 2001-07-02-13 Tennyson Chevrolet
Mr. Piemeccbi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-07-02-13
by Tenvysnn Chevrolet, Inc. requesting waiver use approval to operate a used
car lot proposed to be located on the north side of Plymouth Road between
Mayfield Avenue and Hubbard Avenue in the S.W. 1/4 of Section 27.
Mr. Taormina presented a map showing the property under petition plus the exvstmg zoning
of the surrounding area
Mr. McCann: Is there any correspradeace?
Mr. Nowak We have five ids of correspondence. The first gem is from the
Engineering Division, dated July 30, 2001, which reads as follows:
"Pursuant to your request, the Engineering Division has reviewed the above
referenced petition. We have an objections to the proposal or the legal
description contained therein at this time. The developer should be required
tofu the following maintenance items before occupying the property. (I)
The storm manhole in the existing asphalt parking lot wiII need w be
repaired or reconstructed depending on the extent ofthe damages. (2)
The existing sidewalk ramp along Plymouth Road leading onto Mayfield
Avenue will need w be replaced as it is badly damaged (3) The approach
onto Plymouth Road will need to be replaced w fx the lenge hump that has
ocemrredin the west half ofthe approach. We trust that this will provide
you with the information requested." The letter is signed by David Lear,
PE., Civil Engineer. 'he secandletteris from the Division of Police, dated
August 3, 2001, which reads as follows: "We have reviewed the site plans in
connection with a proposal to operate a used car lot. The handicap space
indicated in the site plan meets the requirements for a handicap space,
however, the location of the handicap space does not meet the requirements
ofthe City Ordirmrree. The handicap space "...shall be arrangedfn,
convenient use andwith safe means ofaccess thereto..." The handicap space
should be moved to the south side ofthe building closer to the entrance of
the budding. It a our understanding that all of%loadng ofear bombers will
take place at the property located north of this property and not on the
roadway." The lett is signed by Was McKee, Sergeant Traffic Bnreau
The third letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Ihvisom, dated August 3,
2001, which reads as follows: "Laconia Fire & Rescue has no objectums or
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concerns relative to the Issues raised In lhefollowap petition (2001-07-02-
13)." The letter is signed by Alan W. Brendemihl, Fr., Fiie Chef, Livonia
Fire & Rescue. The fourth letter is from the Inspection Department, dated
August 7, 2001, which reads as follows: "Pursuant to your request ofJuly
27, 2001, the above referenced pehlian has been reviewed The following Is
noted; (I) Thispetitionproposed vehicleparking within 20feetofthe
side lot line adjacent to Mayfield, which is not allowed Because ofthis
proposed parking the aisle width a also deficient hvo (2) feet Therefore,
the excess parking in that area must be elaninened or the petitioner will
need two variances from the Zoning Board ofAppeals m foOowing. (a) A
variance for seven (7) parking spaces within 20 feet at the side lot line, (b)
A variance for a defuient parking aisle width. 22 feet required, 20 feet
proposed, deficient 2 feet (2) Fence on northpropertyline ism disrepair
and requires maintenance. (3) No signage has been reviewed aspart of
Mie petition. (4) The petitioner has indicated a landscaping amount that
will exceed the minimum requirement However, no detailis provided and
the Commission and Council may wish to address Ms issue. (S) Required
double striping on the parking area is not indicated This Department has
no further objections to this petition. I trust thisprovides the requested
information." The liner is signed by Alex Bishop, Assistant Dinectorof
Inspection. The fifth letter is from the Livonia Fire & Rescue Division,
dated August 7, 2001, which reads as follows: "Thu of/ice has reviewed the
site plan submitted in connection with a request to operate awed car lot on
properly located at the above referenced address. We have no objections to
this proposal." The letter is signed by James E. Corcorm, Fire MarshaL
That is the exert of the correspondence.
Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evening?
Earles J. Tangos, 33300 Five Mile Road, Livonia, representing the petitioner, Tennyson
Clievaolet For your information, Mr. Termyson is in the audience today
with both of his architects. You will hear from the architect that has done
some of the original plans here and has done some renderings of what the
building wdl look like. Essentially, you heard from Mr. Taormina that this
piece of property which is now under a purchase agreement with
contingencies for the City's approvals will be used for a need car lot. The
present used car facility is on the east side of the Terayson Chevrolet and it
has a block building that is being used presently for the office. Thenewcars
are further away except for the new cars that are in the building. Essentially,
this is a two phase development What Termyson Chevrolet has in fund is
that is if they are successful with the waiver use and the site plan, that the
Great Ickes Castor building approxnnately between 8,000 and 9,000 sq. ft.
or about two thuds will be demolished, leaving the back one thud to be used
for the offices, some used car repairs and also for a conference room for the
used car operation. Once that is done, then the used car operation will be
moved from the east side of the present Tennyson Chevrolet and the block
building flint is presently existing there will be demolished so that area will
strictly be used for new car display. We have Mike Devine here and he is
the architect and I ant going to ask him to come up and describe the site plan
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and also the type of materials and what the budding will look so that you will
have a better understanding of what the end result will be if the approval is
gamed
Mice Devine, 921 Wing Street, Plymouth, Michigan I would like to walk you through the
site plan to get a feel for the existing site as it stands now and what we
propose to do to it. Walk you through the building as we are proposing to
renovate it and then show some exterior elevations to give a feel for what the
building is intended to look hike. Hem we have the existing site. Plymouth
Road is down here, Mayfield is here and this is the existing budding, as it
stands now. As Mr. Tangoes had said, we intend to remove basically two
thirds of Poe from of the buildng. The function of the sales office doesnt
require the square footage that the building contains now. Itis will afford
more display for the used vehicles themselves. Here we have a row of
angled parking that is 20 feet off of the sidewalk along Plymouth Road A
new approach that would speak to the reworking of the damaged approach
that is there now. We've got two rows of 90 degree parking here, an aisle
and more display here. Along Mayfield these are the seven spaces that are in
question for the variance right now. The location of these is predicated on
the fact that what we wanted to do was provide a little bit of pedestrian
circulation along the building here so we have allowed for three feet ofjust
thatpedestriancirulation To maximize the greenbelt that we have along
Mayfield here, that was thejustification of 20 feet of aisle width. We've got
3 feet, 20 feet, 10 feet and then the remainder would be landscaping. In the
rear weve got customer parking located along this fence line and back here
would be a service area, where loading would occur and ming of that
nature. We have provided a security fence that would extend from the
building all the way up to the existing fence at the north of the property. We
have eliminated the existing sidewalk here that you can see on the site plan
here. The reason being that we felt that would help to enhance the
appearance of the site from Mayfield and from Plymouth Road. Thezoating
behind this particular piece of property is all industrial and they dont have
sidewalks along Mayfield. What this current sidewalk does is it stops here,
crosses the street and when it picks up on the other side of the street it dead
ends into a fence. It is really not a very functional sidewalk Ibis is the plan
of the building. This is the south side of the building and Plymouth Road is
down bere. Mayfield is over here. What we have allowed for within the
square footage that we are proposing is a conference lunchroom for the
employees and for possible clients. We've got a general bullpen sales area
here with some private offices for more confidential dealings. In the rear of
the building, we've got a parts area, a watch bay four, the preparation of the
used cars and then a service bay, as well.
Mr. McCain: What type of service?
Mr. Devine Any minor repairs that might have to occur to the used cars. Here we've got
indicated brick veneer on the west side of the building and the south side of
the building.
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Mr. McCain: You mean for inch full size brick?
Mr. Devine: Yes. This would all be new conshuction because this is, of course, where
the existing budding is aarmtly and this would be the new exterior wad.
Here are some color elevations of the proposed budding itself. This would
be the facade that would face Plymouth Road Ibis is the elevation that
would be an Mayfield. What you can see if that we have attempted to
coordinate with the existing Temysm Chevrolet dealership using the same
color pallet and the same signage. The exception here is that we are
indicating brick from here to the top of the window. Ibis would be a
synthetic m cco material, ldce dryvit or something of that nature and that ties
directly back to the existing budding. The existing budding is actually all
dryvit so this would help relate it back to that A large expansion facing off
of Plymouth Road, sonic smaller new windows along Mayfield and this is
essentially the way the binding exists now. Thereis anexisting overhead
door an the north side of the building that would be blocked in because there
is no longer a need for that
Mr. Alanskas:
Would you give me a nn through on how customers would get back to the
back of the budding where it says parking for the customers?
Mr. Devine:
Off ofl'lywonh Road, they could come down this aisle back and park or off
of Mayfield they can come back and park
Mr. Alanskas:
Would you point to where the barbershop is?
Mr. Devine:
This is the existing barbershop.
Mr. Alanskas:
IsnY there, at the present time, a driveway going that side of the budding
Mr. Devine:
Yes.
Mr. Alanskas:
Wbm are you going to do with that?
Mr. Devine:
What we are showing is a farce back here with gates that would be locked.
The intent of that is to have a service back to this secure area behind the
budding
Mr. Alanskas:
So if someone pulled in there, they still could go down the east side of the
hnkingl
Mr. Devine:
No. We would have a locked gate.
Mr. Alanskas:
The me thing is I am concerned about the barbershop about is these people
being'nfnnged upon in your custorners'parking Right at the present fine,
as I understand and we will find out later on in the proceedings, that a lot of
new car customers are pulling in through the west side of the existing new
bolding and packing in their parking lot, going into Temysm Chevrolet I
warn to make sure that somehow we can stop that Because that cold be
18737
mfingmg upon then properly and I ampresummg that this has been
happening.
Mr. Devine:
The only oppodumly for thatto happen and I Final think that is a possibility
from the standpoint that all of these spaces here would be filled with
merchandise vehicles. The only ahemative for a customer to come in off of
Plymouth Road would be to tum left
Mr. Alanskas:
Thank you
Mr. LaPine:
You said if they came in off of Mayfield, havenl you proposed some parking
alongthere? Tluslookslike A is only 25 feetwide. Doyouhavecars
poking in front of the berm there?
Mr. Devine:
In these parallel spaces?
Mr. LaPme:
Yes.
Mr. Devine:
Those would be merchandise vehicles.
Mr. LaPine:
Say under our ordinance, they have to be 10' X 20' under our ordinance, that
doeml leave much of a driveway through there, does it?
Mr. Devine:
We are showing a 20 foot aisle between the parallel puking and this striping
along the building which is essentially also the back side of these customer
spaces as well. What we have attempted to do with the seven spaces, we
could fit more spies in here.
Mr. LaPine:
From the edge of the greenbelt to the building is 392 but. Is that correct?
Mr. Devine:
That is intoned The 392 feet is iron the property line to the building.
Mr. LaPine:
Tell me how far it is from the greenbelt to the building.
Mr. Devine:
32 feet
Mr. LaPine:
You poking spaces have to be 10' X 20'.
Mr. Devine:
These ere parallel spaces here.
Mr. LaPine:
So you are going to have parallel pokme
Mr. Devine:
That is correct
Mr. LaPine:
So that is 10 feet wide and that leaves you 29 fret All right That is all I
have right now.
18738
Mr. Shane: Back to the parking spaces which abut the lot line, what would prevent
Mr. Devine: I flunk that is a potential. From what I understand, there would be the
someone from going in there and going right in back of the barbershop in
fntrtofthebrilding?. You take a right and go right into that property.
Mr. Devine:
I dual think thatthere is anything that currently exists that would prohibit
Mr. Shave:
that.
Mr. Shave:
It wouldal on the other side of the parking either, would it?
Mr. Devine:
Correct
Mr. Shane:
I think that was pat of Mr. Alarskas's problem Could there be cross haffrc
across there?
Mr. Devine: I flunk that is a potential. From what I understand, there would be the
possibility of putting some kind of a barricade there to prohibit any cross
traffic that would occur if somebody were to come down this aisle, see an
opening, we would prevent that with some kind of a barrier.
Mr. Shave:
How important are those seven puking spaces along Mayfield Avenue to the
operation?
Mr. Devine:
That would be something that I would have to ask the client to speak to as
fu as the importance of the seven spaces but I think the more spaces the
better.
Mr. Sbane:
I understand. If those spaces werevl there, you would cause two problems
that you would have to go to Zoning Board of Appeals on
Mr. Devine:
That is We.
Mr. Shure:
Thank yon.
Mr. LaPine:
You talked about brick on the west side of the budding and on the south side
of the binding. What is going to be on the east side of the building? People
coming from the east going west are going to see mat side of the budding.
Mr. Devine:
The intent of doingjust the west and the south side was that the building is
fu enough back fromthe street that any 1refHc that comes down Plymouth
Road from the east would be obstructed by the different businesses that are
along Poe street here. Currently, the existing budding is concrete block and
our intent is to restore the block and paint it
Mr. LaPine:
Wouldvl you make the same argument for the people going from the west to
the east?
Mr. Devine:
With the vehicular traffic off of Mayfield and not having an approach off it
we felt the need for the brick ov that side.
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Mr. LaPine:
You have one bay in the back where you are going to do repairs m these
vehicles?
Mr. Devine:
Correct
Mr. LaPine:
Aredi seminorrepan mdtune-upsmdflmgsofthatnahue? Iamkindof
cmious. They wouldn't do repairs m the used cars like a regular repair shop.
Mr. Devine:
I think that this is more for convenience. I don't think my major overhauls
would happen here, like yon say, tone -ups and things of that name.
Mr. LaPine:
World you be carrying regular parts there.
Mr. McCann:
I think that would be a question for Mr. Tennyson.
Mr. LaPine:
O.K.
Mr. Alanskas:
For all the vehicles that you are going to have parked in font, are these only
going to be cars, no tacks?
Mr. Devine:
Again, I think that world be a question for Mr. Temysm.
Cbristopher Tennyson,
32570 Plywouth Road, Livonia.
Mr. Alanskas:
Today, when I stopped by to see yon, I asked yon about parking in font of
the new car dealership. You said you had approval to park vans there.
Where did you get that approval from?
Mr. Tennyson
I got that when we fast remodeled the dealership. Itwasdetemdnedthatif
w parked tracks m the west side, the font of the showmmr, they were
blocking the Namoda's barbershop.
Mr. Alanekas:
Letme readtoyouourresolution andthe Comcil's. Number 4 says that,
'No vans shall be allowed to be parked and exhibited in from of the
showroom along Plywrnrth Road.,
Mr. Tennyson
That is correct
Mr. Alawkas:
Well yon are parking them there.
Mr. Tennyson:
I have no vans there.
Mr. Alanskas:
What do you call a SUV? You wouldn'tcall that a van?
Mr. Teonysm:
No.
Mr. Alanskas:
So a van is strictly a truck?
Mr. Tennyson:
No. A van is a square boxed vehicle. Those are taller than SUVs or was.
18740
Mr. Alamkas: Thank you. I just wand to get that clarified
Mr. Piercecchi: In regards to the seven spaces along Mayfield, they really areal parking
spaces. They arejust display spaces?
Mr. Tennyson:
Yes sir.
Mr. Piefcecchi:
So nobody would be going in and out of there?
Mr. Tennyson
No. The intent of that was to maximize our display area and our sheet
frontage with the lube shop across the street, there is a good view of that
property commg firm the west to the east and the way the building is
situated it would be awkward to display it in back and there is not a ton of
displayinfiorR lbe Nmoretlmwehavengbtnowbrtattheexisting
property that was to be used as a display space, not a parking space. I think
it would be a little awkward br people to parallel park.
Mr. Pierverchi:
How are you going to handle your refuse? I dont see a dumpster here.
Mr. Tennyson:
Our dumpsters are behind my body shop facility, at the other property. We
own the property directly behind the property that we are proposing to
purchase. We own firm Mayfield back behind our dealership to back behind
Overseas Motors, also. Our dumpste s are back there. We arenot going to
have alot of hash. The cleaving company will take it out like they take it
ad from the main building and the body shop. They take A out and dump it
in our curoad dumpsters.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Are they housed with doors on it?
Mr. Tennyson:
Yes.
Mr. Alanskas:
In regards to the landscaping area on the west side that is all dead. Would
you explain to the Conunissioners and the audience what happened in
regards as to why that is like that?
Mr. Tennyson:
The original landscaping we put in there when we remodeled our building,
we had people during rush hour driving across our front sidewalk, the
driveway and over the bushes and back out through the Naimola's parking
lot It was quite a dangerous situation That is one of the reasons we have
cars out front other than to display. We replaced those a couple of years ago.
We had far evergreens over there. They didnl do well. I didn't have to pay
for them They didnl do well and they didnl make it At the tune the
Plymouth Road Development Authority, and I have the paper work on that,
asked for an easement on that portion of our property, they said they were
going to landscape in 8uere and sprinkle it They have the easement but they
have not been back to do it I mentioned it to John Nagy and I also
mentioned it to Rod Crider, who serves on that board.
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Mr. Alanskas: Have you ever seen any of you customers coming in for new car quotes,
parking m the parking lot for the barbershop on the west side and going into
thea area? Have you had that kind of a problem with you cusmmers
parking there?
Mr. Tennyson:
If have seenthat happen. I wouldnl say it never has IMI would say the last
time I knew about it was about seven years ago. I don't think that since we
have remodeled that that has hem a problem. In the letter that Mrs. Namola
sent, she said that was mostly at night when she was calling the police
because she thought people were going to break into oar building. I coal say
A has never happened but it is not a common situation
Mr. Alanskas:
All right Thavkym
Mr. LaPme:
Ijust wont to clarify about the parts. The parts used here are strictly for
these used vehicles, or do you get parts boom either location?
Mr. Tennyson:
No. We would not be snoring for the other dealership. We might have stuff
like windshield washer solvent We will probably store some records m there
In give us a little additional storage for the main building. That will not be
parts storage facility. The service bay there is for minor things for whm we
take in a trade in, cleanup or replacing a minor or something like that Any
serious service work would be done in our service facility.
Mr. LaPme:
I was one of the Comarissioners that was against any vans parking in firm of
you new location when you took that parapet that was out there before. You
areprobably right. ASW is nota van but it is really cutting itreally close
because actually a SUV is probably larger than a van and our intent was that
we didnl want that staff there.
Mr. Shane:
Would itbepossibleto opemeyouu business withortthat entry off of
Plymouth Road?
Mr. Tennyson:
No.
Mr. Shane:
The reason I ask that is because whm someme comes in they have to take
the nearest routojust to get back to park. It would be easier to come off of
Mayfield -
Mr. Tennyson:
I think if we didn't have an entrance off of Plymouth Road we wouldn't be
able to sell cars there. I think that people will get used to coming in from the
side but I think we have to have one there for the average customer and make
sure we have a clear aisle to get them around and mark it well with signs so
they know how to get in
Mr. LaPine:
Mr. Shane asked you about the seven parking spaces along Mayfield How
necessary are those seven spaces?
18742
Mr. Tennyson: That is a major portion of the display area. That is one of the main reasons I
am considering purchasing the budding because I get some street footage
for my used cars, which I don't have now. Also, I might add, when I don't
have the used cars arced in with the new cars, I won't have the serious need
In have arty trucks in fort I can rim all cars in fort and move trucks to
where Rhe existing used car budding would be and still have good display.
Mr. McCann:
I am glad von said that One of the problems we have is when you came to
us and remodeled was lack of space. We couldn't expand the greenbelt
ranch. We couldn't do a lot of the things with Rhe existing building. I am
looking at this as an opportunity. As you know, I visited you on several
occasions usually to ask for gifts for charities, as you are aware. But you are
going to be removing the existing used car office on that site. Conect?
Mr. Tennyson:
Correct
Mr. Mccarm
One of the concerns I do have when I come into your facility to look at the
models or to speak to people is that there is a lack of parking for your
customers at your budding. I fund it difficultto find a place to park I
think that could be satisfied Now that you are going to be amending your
other site plan by removing that building and creating more parking, what
you are going to be doing with the greenbelt area How you will be able to
remove the vans and trucks from the fort ofyour budding?
Mr. Tennyson:
Ijust offered to do that
Mr.McCann:
But you haven't brought any plans with you for us for wbat the existing
dealership will look hike atter the renovations are completed
Mr. Tennyson:
No. I have not done that
Mr. McCain:
Have you been working with an architect as to what you are going to be
done?
Mr. Tennyson:
Yes.
Mr. McCain:
Is there going to be a chance to get a little bit more greenbelt around the
budding or around the front?
Mr. Tennyson:
I would say in font of the showroom, we would be able to.
Mr. McCann:
By putting a little bit more greenbelt armed the sbowroom, one of the
concerns that I have reviewed, and for the audience's understanding, each
Commissioner did receive a copy ofJobanna Na mola and Michael Nomads,
as well as copies of their petitions. I have read the letter several times. It
concems with your customers parking in thein parking lot I think that is an
issue that has to be addressed, as well as they talk about security and privacy
fences. We don't like vinyl fences, as you are aware, but we do love
shrubbery and we do love landscaping in order to separate properties.
18743
Berating is also a wonderful effect to give privacy. Arethereareas thatyon
lhmk you could work with to give them a little care protection and a little
care greenbelt to you and beautify your existing dealership?
Mr. Tennyson:
I am trying to think how you can do that in front without blocking the view
oftheir building anymore. I am sure green space and shrubberycould be
done.
Mr. McCann:
I am sure if you are putting more green space around your budding it will
beautify dim budding, as well as yoim.
Mr. Tennyson
That is correct
Mr. McCann:
Is that something that can be worked on?
Mr. Tennyson:
Yes.
Mr. McCann:
If there are no further questions, I will go to the audience since lhis is a
public hearing. Is there anybody in the audience wishing to speak for or
againAtbis petition?
Johanna Naimola,
32590 Plymouth Road, Livonia. I have lived there almost 50 years. I have
pw1 res of my home, originally and I also have picdres that I would like for
all of you to see because pictures tell more than words. I also warn Ms.
Dolan to see what I read about her and how she feels about the citizens of
Livonia and her interest in Plymouth Road and I really coronend her fm it
and also another would be councilperson Maybe this would interest you,
but we started out with a five chair shop and I think A is kind of interesting if
you would see howmy husband had his original advertising. I hada lotto
say and I aught repeat some of the things that you are Listening and I was
quite surprised to hear what I heard. First of all, if you look at the picdres
and see where our barbershop is and the building and am home, we need
protection I will not stand for living here 51 years, an original owner, when
there was not a piece of property mound when no one is going to protect me.
I think that the City would make Tennyson protect me with a proper seven or
eight foot fence. This is really a requisite I cannot live without. I am 83
years old and I want to live a while. I will start off with my proposition
proposal for Tennyson Cbevr<det requesting a waiver to permit the use of a
cm lot operation (used) directly west of my home and barbershop in front
Thu budding and landabuttmg Mayfieldwas occupied byfourprevlous
businesses allfalling m hate with exuang coding rules. Thelrbusmesses
were conductedfavorably mallow surroundings -both business and
residential. Merchandise was bought -customers came and left - no !offering
- all m all wefelt safe. Now we are told progress u the issue. Progress for
whom? We have ownedour property 51 years. We bulk our home - raised
our children -built our shop 49yems ago and served our customers - our
Lvnondefrrends and neighbors whenever we saw the needor were called
quon w help. Our home has been my life and roots. We have enjoyedevery
mch ofour property. My yard andgarden a my Garden ofPden Ispend
18744
my quiet time there andenjoy the peaceful safety. At 83-1/2 years does
Livonia not owe me this protection Am I not being considered - 51 years -
the Mayor prouxdy presented the 50year cert fncate to me. Was all this in
vaW Am I now treatedlike a second class cztuien9 It looks that way. Look
at thelixtu es closely andsee what a going to happen on the east driveway.
What u going to happen there? Iam really anxious to fmd out. Tennyson
would not only destroy my livelihood my very existence and privacy and
safety to my home. Is progress - auto dealerships allover Plymouth Road
u this what our beaut fwahon had in mmd7 A big dealership -Tennyson
would not only destroy our livelihood - my very existence - privacy and
safety to my home. Actually it a a 24 hourgoing business. People looking
some burying, andyes, a lot ofrobong and stealing. Would? be the nett
victIm7 It really gives mea scare. No. We do not have the backing odeO.M
millions. We do have the baclung odeour customers -other businesses &
neighbors -who are behind us 100% with they good will and
encouragement in the hope it would open up your listening mind andhearts.
Irecerveda real boost odehope from two ofour now running candidates
rumumforcietwiL They expressed their voice and our existing businesses,
citizens odeLwoma - and beautification of Plymouth Roadfor the benefit of
all -Ilaud them Thamhyoujor listening, Johanna Numola. . Ithank you
very nisch.
Mita; Naimola, 32590 Islymoudi Road "Like my Mom I am also espressmg my opinion
asking the Zoning Board to deny the use odea used car dealership requested
by Tennyson Chevrolet I was told today by a zoning member - this a
progress. Is this the reason we are beautifying Plymouth Road to build and
create a street odecar lots? Do our homes and small existing businesses get
shoved to the wayside? My father built Nicolas 49years ago and?have
workedhere27years. Since myfather's sudden death lhave mamtamedthis
shop- supported my mother andour home which she really loves. My
customers come from all walks ofl fe and live m Livonm and surroundmg
areas. My job is to give the vest haircut - clean environment -friendliness
andsafey for they cars. We never hada break-in. Like my family Ilave this
City and havegiven myself to good causes for the benefit ofmy customers,
friends and allLimonite's. My greatest concern is the 24 hour business -yes
people do browse and look and yes steal Our parking area vi used daily by
Tenoyson's would be customers. Will their new, lot cover our shop with they
carsfromeveryangle7 Will Nicola's be recognFiedwith big sign - lighting
promotions, etc Do I tell my customers odemany years, "This all folks': I
am being swallowed up. Thankfully, my customers have come to my help.
Neighbors well meaning, citeseru andfnends told me We do not have OM
millions to support you but we are ojjermg you our heartfelt support and
fight." This has given my gut new courage. Livonm owes meprotection and
continuedgood living and making andkeepmg our home the way we
deserve Pleasegive this yourhonestconcernandconsideration Progress
does not push citizen's business out odeexistence. Thankyou." Six times a
day I haw to tell somebody to please move their car next door. Today,
twice, somebody parlwd thein car right on the entrance way of my driveway.
I had to go outdoors and say,' Phis is for the barbershop." They say, "It is a
18745
unmute." No one goes to a car dealership for a m n de. Like my, family, I
love this City and have given a good cause for the benefit of my costumers,
friends and all Limonite's My greatest concent is the 24 hour business that
Tennyson will have. Everybody stops at car lots. They stop. They look
Our house is right back there. We don't need lights in our backyard 24 haus
a day. We don't need it Yes people browse, look and, yes, steal. Our
parking area is used daily by Tennysom's would be customers. Will their
new car lots cover our shop lot with their cars on the side of our house and
the barbershop blocking our side? People will come right in by our
barbershop, park and go right in nest door. Promotions, like when the new
cars come out, we have more than six times a day. I have to inn outdoors
and tell them that they have to move their cars. How many times a day win I
have to out out now and say this is for the barbershop.
Mr. McCain: Thank you Are there arty fiuther questions?
Mr. Piereccchi: Mr. Temysom, I noticed this photograph which shows the west side which is
a driveway, currently right now. Inasmuch as this driveway is going to be
null and void, you are not going to use it mymore, don't you think it is
possible to put a greenbelt in there or landscaping to shield those people and
give them some protection?
Mr. McCain:
I think there has been some consent that there is some potential that needs
some work Mr. Temysm, we are surrounding a person's home here and we
have to do whatever we possibly can before we consider this to make sure
that they are protected. Further, we do want to look to see what we can do
with the cetta room that you are gaming at your other dealership to also
alleviate some of the problems there.
Mr. Tennyson
O.K.
Mr. McCann:
One of the things that Mr. Piercecchi had shown is along the east property
live of the building that you are pmcbaung There could be room fora
greenbelt along with other things along that line to assist in damping noise,
keepingtheseparahmofclients. The nest studymeetivgwill be AuguA28,
2001, on the fifth floor.
Mr. Tennyson:
O.K.
On a motim by Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. Piemeccbi and unanimously approved it was
#84302001RESOLVED
that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City
Planning Commission on August 21, 2001, on Petition 2001-07-02-13 by
Tennyson Chevrolet, Inc. requesting waiver we approval to operate a used car
lot proposed to be located on the north side ofPlywmth Road between
Mayfield Avenue and Hubbard Avenue an the S.W. 1/4 of Section 27, the
Planning Commission does hereby recomaend Petitim 2001-07-02-13 be
tabled to September 18, 2001.
18746
Mr. McCaw, Charman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted
ITEM#3 PETITION 2001-06-06-07 City Planning Commission
(Open -stir Sales)
Mr. Piercecchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-06-06-07
by the City Planning Cormmtissimpursuard to CA 4395-01 and Section
23.01(a) of Ordinance 4543, to amend Sections 10.02 and 10.03 of Article X
and Section 11.02 of Article XI to make open-air sales of nursery stock, fruits
and vegetables a permitted use for food stores, grocery stores and meat
markets subject to certain restrictions curtained in Section 10.03.
Mr. Taormina: As directed by the City Council, the Law Deparmem has prepared language
which, if adopted, would allow the Zoning Ordinance to make open-air sales
of masery stock fruits and vegetables a permitted use for food store, grocery
stores and meat markets subject to certain restrictions. Currently, in both Gl
and C-2 districts, "open -an sales ofmnserystock m frits and vegetables" are
classified as waiver uses. The proposed amemhnem would delete this
requremem alms allowing the outdoor sales of these items as permitted uses
regulated by means of the restrictions contained in the amended Section
10.02(b). Under the proposed changes, the Planning and Inspection
Departments would be responsible for the reviewing and approving site plans
in connection with these types of requests, to assure that the display is
restricted to the walkway adjoining the budding and does not extend into the
parking or drive area or aisle, so that the walkway is at all times sufficiently
free of obstructions to provide safe and direct access to the building.
Mr. McCann: Ibis is the Planning Comoussion's petition an, I wi l go to the audience. Is
there anybody in the audience that would like to speak for or against this
petition? Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing. A motion is in order.
Mr. LaPive: PO move that we table this again. Iam not comfortable with it Isti0think
sidewalks are meant to be there for sidewalks and not to be displaying any
produce and all of these other things that they want to do. I would like to talk
about it some more at me of our study sessions.
On a motion by Mr. LaPive, seconded by Mr. Shane and unanimously approved it was
#8-131-2001 RESOLVED that, pursuant to a Public Hearing having been held by the City
Planning Commission on August 212001, m Petitim 2001-06-06-07 by the
City Planning Commission pursuant to C-R- #395-01 and Section 23.01(a) of
Ordinance 4543, to amend Sections 10.02 and 10.03 of Article X and Sectim
11.02 of Article XI to make open-air sales ofnursery stock, fruits and
vegetables a permitted use for food stores, grocery stores and meat markets
subject to certain restrictions contained in Section 10.03, the Planning
Commission does hereby recommend that Petition 2001-06-06-07 be tabled to
an appropriate date.
18747
Mr. McCarm, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopted.
This concludes the Public Hearing portion of our agenda. Wewill now
proceed with the miscellaneous site plan portion of our agenda...
ITEM#4 Petition 2001-08-08-24 California Pisa Kitchen
Mr. Piemecchi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 2001-08-08-24
by California Pisa Kitchen requesting approval of all plans required by
Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to
renovate the exterior of one of the units of the Laurel Park Place Shopping
Center located at 37065 Six Mile Road in the SE. 1/4 of Section 7.
Mr. McCain: We received a letter dated August 21, 2001, requesting that we table this as
they were not able to attend this evening. Is there a motion is table?
On a motion by Mr. Almskes, seconded by Mrs. Dolan, and unanimously approved it was
#8-132-01 RESOLVED that, the City planning Commission does hereby recommend
that Petition 2001-08-08-24 by California Pi= Kitchen requesting approval
of all plans required by Section 18.47 of the Zoning Ordinance in connection
with a proposal to renovate the exterior of me of the units of the Lamrel Park
Place Shopping Center located at 37065 Six Mile Road in the SE. 1/4 of
Section 7 be tabled to September 18, 2001.
Mr. McCain, Chairman. declared the motion is carred and the foregoing resolution adopted
This concludes the miscellaneous site plan portion of our agenda We will
now begin the pending item section of our agenda These items have been
discussed at length in prior meetings, therefore, there will only be Incited
discussion tonight Audience participation will require unanimous consent
from the Commission.
ITEM #5 PETITION 91-07-08-13 American Tower
Mr. Piemeccbi, Secretary, announced the next item on the agenda is Petition 91-07-08-13 by
American Tower requesting approval A expand the area previously approved
for a monopole and equipment shed at property located at 17217 Middlebelt
Road in the SE. 1/4 of Section 11.
Mr. McCann: Is there any new correspondence regarding this, Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina: No, however, we have received a revised site plan. The applicant is here this
evening to present the changes.
Mr. McCain: Is the petitioner here this evening.
Amy Miller, American Tower, 29585 Costello Dave, New Hudson, Michigan I am here
tonight on behalf ofAmmusaa Tower Corporation. We are asking fora
18748
recommendation for approval to the City Council for expansion of the
existing compound area by 600 square feet This item basal changed since
the last time you saw A formally at the Planning Commission meeting It
does include an antenna to be located at 104 feet on the lower and an
equipment shelter as well. Since you last Planning Commission meeting we
have had a working session last week, for arty of you that warml in
attendance. The plans since then have been revised. You have them in you
packets today. We have designated an outdoor storage area which is located
directly behind the existing building. That area is the only area where
outdoor storage willoccur. ILe outdoor storage will not exceed six feet m
height The fence is six feet in height that is proposed We are proposing a
decorative wood fence. That is something that was requested by the property
owner. At the work study session, we had discussed a vinyl fencing. After
speaking with the property owner and with our fencing contract, we really felt
that the wood was something that would be more durable and easier for the
property owner to replace if, in fact, it were ever damaged. Parking has been
designated on the lot and will be striped There is an area along the road
night -of -way which the City had asked to be removed which was an asphalt
area It will be removed and replaced with landscaping. In addition, there are
some Colorado Spruce trees proposed along the north property line. I feel
that the plan meets the goals of the City that does rather make the site in
compliance with the City's cement regulations. Ifthe Planning Commission
has any concerns, I world be happy to entertain those at this time.
Mr. McCann: Thank you Are there any questions born the Commussioners?
Mr. LaPine: Once you port up a wood fence, the maintevauce of the fence then goes to
Phillips. Is that correct?
Ms. Miller
Correct
Mr. Lapwe:
They would be responsible for painting and maintaining it and so forth?
Ms. Miller
Correct She is not here tonight I know you had concerns at the work study
session meeting. I do have a letter from her indicating that she has reviewed
the revised plans. I can submit that to the record
Mr. LaPine:
The only problem I have with the wood fence m relation to the vinyl that we
discussed, with what has happened there over the years about the outside
storage, I amjust wandering if a fence will ever be repaced or painted I
may have a better chance of getting the vinyl fence, because it will last
longer than a wood fence and the maintenance is not as much. I really have
no objection to the wood fence if thought the Phillips would paint it and
maintain R Somebody is going to hit it They are going to hit rt with some
of the storage they have back there. There are going to be panels broken
Who is going to repair it, through your office?
Ms. Miller
That would the Phillips responsibility to repair. I do share your concems
with that, which is why I did talk to our femcmg contractor. Actually, the
18749
wood fence is more durable and is easier to replace. I know that the vinyl
doesn't have to be painted but with their operations on site, Alice was
concerned that they would hump the vinyl fencing and that it would be
damaged I did talc to the fencing contractor and he said, 'I know it is an
exact perfect product for you" If you look at your detail on the site plan,
there are steel posts shown on the fencing and those steel posts would be on
the inside of the storage area so it wool be visible from adjacent properties.
That will help minimize that impact when the piping is pumped against the
fence. I think that will weral be a bel@r solution to the site than the vinyl
fencing
Mr. LaPine: You are probably right but I amjust going back 0 what bas gone on there
for years and it is a worry that I have. Thank you
Mr. A]anskas:
In regards to your droving, there are five parking spots for their employees.
At the very right of that there is large area that will be open? What are you
going to do with that? That is where, right now, you have those real long
PCB pipes in storage, which are coming out Could we put some
landscaping in there?
Ms. Miller
There is a fence here. You would like landscaping in at that area?
Mr. ellaaskas:
It is blank with asphalt
Ms. Miller
We could stripe itif you like to show no parking or something like that
Mr. Alanskas:
That is not going to work because no matter what you pert there it will be
used by Phillips, believe me. If there was landscaping there, they could not
do that
Ms. Miller
I understand your concern I am worried that if we plant landscaping there
Ilia there is not enough mom for anything to grow and live properly. I do
have a letter fiomher. IfI can submit it w you for the record and you could
review it It is written and signed by Nice and she says that she
acknowledges that that outdoor stmage area is designated as the only outdoor
stmage area and that will be the only place where outdoor storage will occas.
Mr. Nanskas:
But I doral believe that That is the problem
Ms. Miller
You are looking for some small shrubs or something like that
Mr. Nanskas:
I am looking for something to go there where they couldn't put a>ryfiumg
there because down the road it is going to happen. I would like to nip it in
the bud now before we have the problem
Mr. McCann:
How big of a space is that Mr. Taormina?
Mr. Taormina:
It is a triangular area that is no more than 10 feet by about 17 feet
18750
Mr. Alawkas:
But it is large enough to put merchandise there again. Right now at the
present time they have these long poles there for storage. I knowwhat is
going to happen down the road when that is there and they try to pert
something m temporarily. They are going to pert it m that spot
Mr. Taormina:
As I read the plan, there is already a treejust outside of that mea-
reaMr.
Mr.Alanskas:
It is on the other side that has the tree.
Mr. Tarantino:
Then the survey doesn'tshow that accurately. It is a relatively small area-
reaCould
Couldit be used for landscaping Yes, I guess there could be some use
made of that area, possibly a ground cover other than sod. I wouldn't expect
that area to be grass. Its too small and probably wouldn't last very long
The problem is that unless there is a grade separation no matter what you do
as far as a landscape ground cover, really isn't going to be maintained there.
There would have to be a grade separation in the form of a curb or something
else.
Mr. Alanskas:
Something else so it couldn't be used for storage.
Mr. LaPme:
I understand what we are saying here but the bottom line is if you plant
shrubs there, they will eventually die and they are going to use it anyway. I
am not opposed to putting shrubs there but I know, you are not putting m any
underground sprinklers there or anything so they are not going to be watered
They are not going to be taken care of Consequently, they are going to die.
Mr. Alanskas:
You could put decorative stone there.
Mr. LaPme:
But you could lay A on the stone. You know how everything goes.
Whatever you want, I will go along with
Mr. Piemccchi:
Would a box planter work there?
Mr. Alawkas:
You could have a box planter with decorative stone or something. Just
something there where they couldn't put something on it or m it
Mr. McCain:
If there are no further questions, a motion is in order.
On a motion by
Mr. Alanskas, seconded by Mr. Piercecchi and unanimously approved it was
#8-133-01
RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Carob] that Petition 91-07-08-13 by American Tower requesting
approval to expand the area previously approved for a monopole and
equipmed shed at property located at 17217 Middlebelt Road in the S.E 1/4
of Section 11 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) That the Site Plan marked Sheet 1 dated 820/01, as revised, prepared by
Midwestern Consulting, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
18751
2) That the Utility, Grading and Landscape Plan marked Sbeet 2 dated
8/20/01, as revised, prepared by Midwestern Consulting, is hereby
approved and shall be adhered w;
3) That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu ofbydroseedmg;
4) That underground sprinklers are to be provided for all landscaped and
sodded areas and all plarrted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction
of the Inspection Deparhneut and thereafter permanently maintained in a
healthy condition;
5) That all outdoor storage or placement of merchandise shall be defined to
the 50 ft by 39.5 ft. concrete pad that is to be constructed behind the
building and is denoted on the approved Sue Plan as "Designated Outside
Storage Area";
6) That this storage area shall be screened from public view by a 6 ft high
solid fence;
7) That no items or equipment withm this storage area shall be stacked
higher then 6 ft to height and shall not be visible from outside the fenced
in area;
8) That the petitioner shall correct to the Inspection Depaz enfs
satisfaction the following, as outlined in the correspondence dated April 6,
2001:
- that the existing rostra; plumbing parts,deteriorated
pallets and wood piles shall be removed and the
grass area behind the main building shall be cleaned
up and brought back to its natural state
- that the barbed ware shall be removed from the fence
- that the slats in the fence on the north side of the
noun building shall be removed
9) That the entire parking lot shall be repaired, resealed and
double striped;
10) That all handicap spaces shall be identified and comply
with the Michigan Barrier Free Code;
11) That the Exterior Building Elevation Plan for the anterna
equipment shed dated 4/14/01, as revised, prepared by
Professional Eagmeenng Associates, is hereby approved
and shall be adhered kr;
12) Dot no signs, either freestanding or wall muuuhd, are
approved with this petition;
18752
13) That the specilic plans referenced in this approving
resolution shall be submitted to the Inspection Deparhnent
at the time the budding periods are applied for and
14) That additional screening and landscaping will be added
between the fence and the employee parking area
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is carried and the foregoing resolution adopL-d
It will go on to the City Council wRh an approving resolution.
ITEM #6
PETITION 2001-07-08-23 Mnmey Group
Mr. Piercecchi,
Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Petition 2001-07-08-23
by Mamey Group requesting approval of all plans required by Section 18.58
of the Zoning Ordinance in connection with a proposal to construct a
residential condominium development on property located A 27480 Five Mile
Road in the SP. 1/4 of Section 13.
Mr. McCa®:
Mr. Taormina, is there any additional correspondence that we need to be
aware of!
Mr. Taomrina:
There is no departmental correspondence, however, the City did receive a
letter that is dated August 20, 2001 and it is signed by a number of individuals
that reside close to the project area and I believe each of the Commissioners
should have a copy of it
Mr. McCa®:
We each received a copy of the letter. It will become a part of the permanent
tile. We have each had an opporhmity to review it Again, this brings back a
lot of the issues originally with the zmmg issues that came before us. Is the
petitioner here this evening
Joe Trupiano, 37219
Fairfav, Livonia I am here on behalf of the Marney Groep and for James
Town Condorma Tums.
Mr. McCa®:
Are there any questions from the Commissions?
Mr. Alanskas:
Can you give me roughly how many neighbors are approving this. You said
that you meet with Cher
Mr. Trpimo:
We metwith them in the past to discuss some of the previous site plans that
we have had.
Mr. Almskw:
But how about the new site plan? Have you talked to the neighbors in regards
to the new site plan?
Mr. Trpimo:
Mepersonally,no. Ihavenottalkedkrthem
Mr. Alanskas:
Then how do we lmow that the neighbors are for this?
18753
Mr. Trupiano: I dont know. I kmw that we fried w address the concerns ofthe neighbms
and those ofthe Planning Commission and that is primarily how fibs site plan
was developed with the lownse building in The rear of the property. We tried
to make good use of an irregular shaped piece of property.
Mr. Alanskas:
When you first came before us you were going to have 16 Traits. Correct?
Mr. Tropism:
That is correct We had one large two story building.
Mr. Alanskas:
And you were O.IC with 16. Why do you have to have 20 now?
Mr. Tropism:
There is a substantial amount of infinshuctme that has to be placed on Tbis
particular piece of property. The only way fm us to spread out the cost for
that infiamuctum is to try to achieve that density that we are allowed under
the zoning that would take place if the site plan is approved. Wayne County
regulations for smut water detemon unprovements on the site has
dramatically changed recently in the last six months. We now are subject to
those new regulations. So it creates a large expense for us so we need to
spread that out over 20 units in order to make this a financially feasible
Project
Mr. Alanskas:
Since our last meeting have you made any more changes to The retention
basin?
Mr. Tropism:
Yes we have.
Mr. Alanskas:
Would you explain it to me please?
Mr. Tropism:
What we have done is we have eliminated the forebay. We have added large
corrugated plastic pipe underground which increases our storage and tbat has
allowed us to do two things. It gave us some commits on the pond. We were
able to add more landscaping around the pond and we also have incorporated
a large landscaped berm in fiord of the pond and this was largely due to the
input and concerns of the Planning Commission as well as residents. No one
likes to look at something that is right on the street so we tried to shield it as
much as possible. It becomes a feature fm the residents of the condominium
as well.
Mr. Alanskas:
Didnl we also ask at the study meeting ifit was feasible to put a foumain in
the middle of that basin?
Mr. Tropism:
It would be feasible if it was a we pond but there were liability concerns
from one or more of fire Planning Commissioners That if there were standing
water in the pond, a child might wander into the pond We tried to make it
dry pond ILat is what we attempted to do. In engineering the large
corrugated pipes underground to give us the increased detention.
Mr. Alanskas:
So dim will only be water in the pond when there is a big mmfall?
18754
Mr. Tlupiarm
That is comect
Mr. Alanskas:
Ihank you.
Mr. Mc Caw:
Sir, when you originally came to w you were looking A a brownstone type
complex that wouldjust face Five Mile and [bete would be me budding.
Mr. Tmpiano:
Conect
Mr. McCaw:
I asked last time whether you were still considering A and you hemmed and
hawed. Is 119just am the door!
Mr. Tnpiarm
Yes. It is impossible to give the neighbors enough room If we increase the
size of this building, we coal get the amamt of parking and tuning radius
that we need We would have in go in a three story design, sandar to winat
they have done at Su Mile and Famnmgam in developing different plans for
this project We felt it was best in stick with a smaller budding up front,keep
it as far up front close to Five Mile as possible and then put some low rise
wits in the back. We thought that would better fit in with the neighborhood
and still allow us to achieve the density that we need to make the project work
and we also provided an extensive amount of landscape, as a greenbelt buffer
for the residents and it also gives the adjacent as well as the residents of the
condomimunt a park like setting that they can enjoy some privacy as well.
Mr. Sbam!
Couldn'tyou take that same building and Lin it?
Mr. Tnpimo:
It is a different in respect to the design of it It is similar type ofunit as far as
The square footage but we have added covered parches, some limestone
accents, some shutters, three dimensional shingles, trying in give it a very
traditional old world look and incorporate a lot of brick There is brick all the
way in the belt line, rough sawn spruce, wood siding and all earth tones.
Mr. Sbaw:
My question was the building that you wme tallow; about that you said had to
be made longer, couldn't you Lin it so that it has a north side orientation?
Mr. Tnpiano:
We really couldn't Lin the budding this way. We have some issues here with
some Edison poles that we have to deal with and they create a real big
problem m we are trying in work around that with the design that we have
rightnow. ThatiswbythesebuddingsaresiL tedthewaythattheya m
the site plan
Mr. LaPive:
The ongiwl plan that you submitted in us where you have'Buildwg A"
where you have 12 units and you have'Budding B" which had 8 unit, which
is the 20 units, and the retermon pond was in the back. Originally we were
told that the neighbors in rear didn't want anything back there. They didn't
want any homes. Is that the plans that we have that have the townhouse fee]
to it?
18755
Mr. Tmpiano: Yes. The townhouse design was more of a three story design. That isjust
something that we thought miglrtwork on Pols but after fista ng to the
concerns of the Planning Commission and going back, we thought the
residents would have a real problem with the height of the buildings. We
evolved this site plan firm the input of this Plaming Cormnission and from
the concerns firm the neighbors. Again, it is a very traditional looking
building. We Pooughtwe had something that fit in with the neighborhood.
Mr. McCa®: I believe there are a number of neighbors in the audience tonight Is there any
objection from the Commissioners to open it up. I think the plans have
changed I will allow some discussion Gomthe neighbors, however, I ask
you to limit the anamt of time that you speak We do have your letter and
your petition because you have all signed Please keep that in mnd
Jason Councilman, 15365 Omen Lane. A few of the neighbors and I were speaking so you
will probably here me unless somebody else wants to speak We all have the
same concerns. One is the parking lot and safety. People being allowed to
drive in and turn around A lot of the yards are fenced but the parking lot is
within 10 feet of where my back ends. They've got a dumpster now in a
corner within 50 feet of my neighbor. His house is within 50 feet of that
duarpster. The shrnbs that are shown on that drawing were not shown on the
newdrawing. Ididn'tseethenewdrawinguntillastnight Iwasn'tawareof
it until last Tuesday when I received a phone call. I don't get" ofwork in
time to come and get one. There are those concerns. There is a second
building. I wasn't aware that there was a second budding which we were
initially told that they were going to try to save that as a greenbelt and maybe
a recreation area for the residents of the condominiums. They have the 16
units versus the 20 units in Poetwo buildings. Thesizeofthefintbudding
blocks the view of a couple of the neighbors. That two story budding doesn't
fit If they did two buildings single story, Idon't know what people would
think of that But our concerns are the some. The water retention pond would
probably take care of our drainage concern. I think there are concerns of it
being a dry pond That was news to us, being a dry pond. I dont know what
that will do for uwsquitoes. When you get the spring rain, it will become
SWMTy
Mr. McCa®: ThatbaucallykxAsbkeautgrass. ItwillbecM. Thatiswhatitis.
Mr. Councilman: Our concerns haven'tchanged. Wejust wanted to re -express them The
shrubbery, like I said, we didn't see any of that on the drawing last time. All
we saw was the sewer pipe and the drawing. Nobody was notified that the
plans were changed this drastically this late in the game. We were told
building would probably start last April. Here we are in August and nothing
has been done. I guess the site plan hasn't been approved yet
Mrs. Dolan: You said Pols is the first time that you have seen this newplan?
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Mr. Councilman:
Last night, a neighbor to the north of us brought around a drawing and that
was when everybody saw it That was when the letter was written and we all
signed it in agreement Yes, that was the fust tune I had seen it
Mrs. Dolan:
So agreed with the concept originally.
Mr. Councilman:
We were against the concept but we figured the one building was preferable
tothetwobtildngs. ButwediduYlikeanything.
Mrs. Dolan:
Sure. I understand that
Mr. Councilman:
It doesolfit in the landscape of the nomediaR homes.
Mrs. Dolan:
Your concent now is that you back up to the parking lot You were
concerned. Obviously, you thought there were drainpipes in there and now
there is landscaping
Mr. Councilman:
The initial drawing showed landscape and shrubbery as a barrier to basically
the property line, which is fine. The drawing we saw last night didnY have
any of that shrubbery on there.
Mrs. Dolan:
What is your concern right now with what you are seeing?
Mr. Councilman:
The two buildings, all of the pavement, the dumpster backing up to Chucks
yard and being so close to his house.
Mrs. Dolan:
Is there an enclosure for the dumpster?
Mr. Councilman:
Yes. But the enclosure does rt stop the smell.
Mr. LaPine:
The original plan, which was the me building and going to be three stories, It
is my understanding you all the residents were opposed to the three stories. Is
that correct?
Mr. Councilman:
Our undemanding was that it was two stones. The first building was two
stories plus a basement, which I guess would make three stories.
Mr. LaPine:
But two above ground and one basically underground
Mr. Co rcilman:
Our understanding now is that it is going to be two above grand, cortect?
Mr. McCarn:
It depends not which plan you are referring to. The first drawing was a two
story building The petitioner came before w approximately a month ago was
for a three story, it is actually, a 2-1/2 story, it is still within the 35 ft.
Correct?
Mr. Tropism:
Yes.
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Mr. McCa®:
It was advertised and bas gone through the normal process. It has gone to the
newspaper so if anybody looking at the agenda would have seen it However,
this thud proposal, we are back to a two story instead of a 2-1/2 story.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Originally, there was some opposition to the two story budding, that included
me. In the process, but the property is getting rezoned It is being reamed to
Residential Condominium& which the Council is about ready to do that. Now
that permits two stories so initially, that is why I oppose this package, because
it was two story. But frankly, we can never come up with a plan that would
satisfy everybody.
Mr. Councilman:
Right But now, they are still at two stories.
Mr. Piercecchi:
But it is only in the from. In the back, it was suggested that it be only ane
story. It want be any higher than any of your homes.
Mr. Councilman:
The two stay will. There are homes surrounding that two story area, too.
Mr. Piacecchi:
Yes. Butthatiswayupfront
Mr. Councilman:
Yes. But there are still homes there.
Mr. McCama
I think wbathe is getting at is we looked at originally, under the original
zoning they wanted a union hall, as you recall and other office uses, that was
objectionable to the neighbors for very obvious reasons. We decided it was
better to look at residemial. There are some difficulties an site because of the
designs.
Mr. Councilman:
Because you guys initially sem itto the City Council with a'No" vote and
they approved it anyway. The main concern now is you had two stories that
were sem to City Council with a'Nd' vote. We still have two stories and now
we have a second building. That is what I am looking at
Mr. Mc Cama
The two stay building is smaller than the original two stay. The original
ane was sateen units the new one is twelve units so you lose four units off
the original. Tbm is again, for the audience and those that are watching IV
and for you, this is hike our fourth meeting on this. We have gone back and
forth. We have said there are Edison wires going through the property. There
are easements. We tried to move the building all the way up front It cant be
done. We tried to move it so it would be lower. It can't be done. We keep
trying to cane up with solutions that will meet the neighbors' needs and meet
his. Your concerns regarding the greenbelt, I think those are legitimate
concerns that we can address. We can approve a two story or one story
building and say you will have to corm back We need to beef up the
greenbelt and those things can be addressed as well I wanted to get the
audience participation because this is kind of a new design We are trying to
work with it too.
Mr. Councilmam:
I assume no matter what we say this is approved.
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Mr. McCann No. It is not We are still learning.
Mr. Councilman: O.K. The biggest thing is the greenbelt and the aesthetics to the surrounding
neighbors, the large budding dwarfing single story homes. My house is 1,000
sq. ft on a crawl space on a 40 foot wide lot. I don't have a big house or a big
yard This a right behind me and will affect the salability of houses. It may
not affect the value but it may how easily A sells. I think that may one of the
other contents.
Kevin Sikes, 15326 Foch. I am one of those properties that is towards the front near Five
Mile. I actually like this plan better. My concern is that I haven'theard from
these people in eleven months and I smjust kind of curious why my phone
hasn't rung. It is up to me. A notice was posted on the property. Maybe it is
uptometofollowup. Butthisisabigsurprisetome. Actozllyitisa
pleasant surprise. I like this much better than the other one because we have a
pool in our backyard and I didn't want somebody up on a 30 foot structure
looking down right wer our fence and the pool. This brings up another point.
My fence is aging. It does itsjob with woods behind it bot when they do this
and clear all of that out, is there going to be some pmssure on me to
prematurely get rid of the fence that does a very mcejob? It is just kind of
ugly
Mr. Tmpiano: Would you show me where your fence?
Mr. Sikes: It is right here.
Mr. McCann It looks like we need to work on the greenbelt, considerably, on that area and
possibly movement of the dumpster. Is there anything else?
Mr. Sikes: That is all for me.
Alice Piangerelli, 15433 Green Lane. I think my biggest concern right now is parking the
fences along the greenbelt along the dumpster. I sm sure you can tell by
looking at the diagram that dumpster is only 50 feet from the back of a
person's house. So ifyou have a patio and you are sitting on the patio eating
dimer with your family and your kids are playing, that drmrpster a now
maybe 30 feet from where you are suppose to be enjoying you family time
The parking along the fence, if you've got a child's play set, which I do,
although parking will not be along my backyard, but for my neighbors it will.
Cars will be coming and going and parking. Lights glaring right roto your
bedrooms and into your backyards. My older son has a telescope, which I
know it is not the City's responsibility to tun off the lights when he looks at
the stars, however, with traffic coming and going A is constant lights that I
sm extremely concerned abom. I sm sure you can look at the pictures and see
how close the parking will be along the fence. In my mound, you would need a
brick wall to keep us safe. You are going arm people's backyards with this
development In my mind, and I know I can be very stubborn, but I can't
understand why we have to commoe to try to make his plan work Three
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homes could be belt on Five Mile. The rest of the area behind could left as
greenbelt No one would have parking along their backyard fence. There
would not be a dumpster back there. To me that preserves the intignOity of
the neighborhood That is whatwe are. Weare a neighborhood I can tell
you there me very few signatures compared to the signatures that I could have
gotten on that letter that was written. I could have golfer the entire street sign
that because I know that everyone on our street, on Omen Lane, is opposed to
the development with condominiums. It is just beyond my comprehension
that we have to work so hard to please that developer when there are twelve
families in cm neighborhood that are going to be destroyed, in my mind -
Mr
ind
Mr. Mc Caw: Weweren'ttryingtopleasefhem Them ingwerhtto Council. Weare
trying to work within fhe zoning because if a person owns a piece of property
and if the property is zoned properly, he is entitled to build on it What we
are trying to do is work with the developer to see what we can do to lessen the
impact to the neighbors. Your concerns about parking and putting light into
your backyard and homes, is a very reasonable concern. That is why we
asked you here tonight and to open up fhe audience cumamication tonight
because we can try and address. We are not perfect We haven't hit on every
issue and that is why we are trying to do it Iffhere is going to be
development in this area, we want to try to lessen the impact as much as
possible to the neighbors and provide a good project for the City at the same
time. We are not trying to work with the developer. We aretrying to work
with what will work within the coinmmily giving the person the ability to
develop his property that he is paying taxes on
Ms. Piangerelli:
But we are also paying taxes.
Mr. McCaw:
I understand that
Ms. Piangerelli:
For me, it is the safety issue. I am sue they will be beautiful condominiums
but parking next to a fence where my children are playing just the other side
of the fence, and you are not tallying one or two cars. You are talking 12
parking spaces. I can't remember how many. I know I am passionate about
this and I am because this is my home.
Mr. Mc Cam:
I don't blame you and I completely understand I thank you for coming up
and bringing these issues forward.
Ms. Piangerelli:
Thank you. I appreciate your listening. I guess fhe last thing I have to say is
whatever you decide and whatever you recommend I know that you will
move an to the next project but we will live with the consequences of your
decision We will live with these consequences for many years to come. I
know you will think through this very seriously. Thank you.
Troy Bumo, 15440 Fork This is the firs[ I have heard that they are going to put a second
building directly behind cm horns. I don't agree with that Originally, it was
going to be a recreation area, which would be fine. A two story building with
16 units up front That seemed to be reasonable to me but this is something
18760
new and I am not sure all of the residents along Foch Street are aware of this.
That is all I have to say. I don'tthink it is a good idea
Mr. McCann:
Mr. Tmpiano, would you like to have the last comment?
Mr. Tmpimo:
Frost of all, the parking and safety is also a concern of ors as well. We
always provide parking curbs along these areas. Everywhere where is a
parking spot there will be a curb so there is little to an chance that that car is
ever going to cause a problem where it is going to interfere with a chtld
playing on the other property. Again, this is strictly representative, this
landscape design and this is subject to change. We will continue to work with
the neighbors on the landscape to provide the necessary shielding and lessen
the impact on them That was one of the reasons why we kept this parking as
far south as possible because we understood that this was close to their
backyards and we warned to leave as a long walk for these residents with a
park like setting. It is a little more difficult for thembut A provides the
neighbors a little more privacy. Itis dumpsterwill be completely shielded in
a concrete structure with a brick like facade or we could even brick the
exterior of that Instead of a poured wall with a brick design and paint it we
could actually use the same brick that we use on the building so that it will be
aesthetically pleasing as well. Then we will shield it even further with
landscape. It will be a covered system with swinging gates. It will be an
obligation of the association, not only to maintain those gates, but also to
maintain the cleanliness and keep that dumpster in a very sanitary fashion.
That will be in the deed restrictions. They will be obligated to do that I
know the smell of a dumpster is a concern The drainage concerns, were
handled, if you will notice these dotted lines, what they represent are
structures and underground drains to accommodate the neighbors because
they did experience drainage problems in this area We are fortunate in that
this is actually the highest point of the property and it all drains to the front
So it worked out well in that respect Again, the dry pond is for safety
reasons. We are screening this as much as possible both for the residents,
who exist now and the residents of James Town Condominium. We do plan
to beef up the greenbelt to lessen the impact on the neighbors and again, all I
cam tell you is that we will be happy to meet with the neighbors at arty time to
discuss the development ofPois plan This isn'tthe last time we are going to
see each other. We are going to continue to develop this until we can make
everybody happy. We worked really hard on this and we have presented a lot
of different ideas. I think that the Planning Commissinn has worked with us
and the neighbors to try and come up with something that is a compromise for
everybody and I appreciate you time this evening. Thank you
Mr. McCann:
A motion ism order.
Mr. Piercecchi:
Mr. Charman, I am afraid that this parcel is taking a parallel path sintilar to
the one we recently went back and forth without a solution except to buffer
the homeowners in the area or the developer. I don't think we should lose site
that oujob is to obtain the best use for this property without any undue
problems for the adjacent property owners, allow the developer a reasonable
18761
return and do what is best for the City as a whole. It is unlikely that we can
please everyone on this layout It is an unusual piece of property, difficult to
develop. I thought we came up with a pretty good compromise and it seems
to me that the developer is willing to satisfy some of the parking along the
fence and the dumpster and he says he will continue to work with the
residents to alleviate arty of their concerns.
On a motion Mr. Piercecchn seconded by Mr. LaPme and approved it was
#8-1342001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission does hereby recommend to
the City Council that Petition 2001-07-08-23 by Marney Group requesting
approval of all plans required by Section 18.58 of the Zoning Ordinance in
connection with a proposal to construct a residential condominium
development on property locate at 27480 Five Mile Road in the S.E. 1/4 of
Section 13 be approved subject to the following conditions:
1) Tbat the Site Plan marked Sheet 1 dated 8/16/01, as revised, prepared by
Arpee/Donnon, is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
2) That within 60 days of the City Council's decision on this under, the
petitioner shall subutit, for the Pla t ng Commmissiods review and
recommendation a detailed landscape plan for the site;
3) That all disturbed lawn areas shall be sodded in lieu ofbydroseeding;
4) Tbat underground sparklers are to be provided for all landscaped and
sodded areas and all planted materials shall be installed to the satisfaction
of the Inspection Department and thereafter permanently uncounted in a
healthy condition:
5) That the Exterior Budding Elevation Plans, dated 8/07/01, prepared by
Ronald G. Myers Architect is hereby approved and shall be adhered to;
6) That the brick used in the construction shall be full face 4 inch brick, no
exceptions;
7) That the first floor of each budding shall be brick or stone, on all four
sides, and the total amount of brick or stone on each two -stay dwelling
shall not be less than 65% and not less than 80% on ane-skny dwellings;
8) Tbat the three walls of the trash dunmpster area shall be constructed out of
the same brick used in the construction of the building or in the event a
poured wall is substituted, the wall's design, texture and color shall match
that of the budding and the enclosure gates shall be maintained and when
not in use, closed at all times; (that the trash enclosure shall be made out
of brick)
9) Tbat all elechical and gas meters for the buildings shall be screened from
public view and if possible, located on the side elevation of the structures;
18762
10) That all tight standards shall be shielded from the adjacent properties and
shall not exceed 20 It. in height;
11) That an Entrance Marker Application shall be separately submitted for
review and approval by the Planning Comnnu mn and City Council;
12) That the specific plans referenced in this approving resolution shall be
submitted to the Inspection Department at the time the building peanuts
are applied for.
Mr. McCann: Is there any discussion?
Mr. Alanskas: When this petition came before us originally A was for 16 units and I did not
support it them and I certainly am not going to be supporting two buildings
with 20 units. I will be saying "No" for this petition. Thank you.
Mr. McCann: I tried to find a way to make this work. I was an the Planning Commission
when they wanted to make it a union hall and the other types of uses that have
been talked about going into this property. We didn't find anything We were
concerned how condominiums would work in Otis area It was denied by the
Planning Commission but the Council approved it Now we've got RC as the
zoning in this area, and I have to find something ihatwill work within it I
think this plan has potential. I think all of the neighbors will have the
opportunity to give their concerns to the Council to try and make it work
The Co r cd has the ultimate authority to approve or deny this plan. If this
motion is approved, the landscape plan will be held back so that we can look
at fencing We can look at bemning. We can look at other means of
separating the condos nmum complex from the surrounding neighbors.
Mr. LaPine: I, like you, was here when we heard the union half We denied the zoning
and it wand an to Council and the Council made A RC. Like you said, we
have worked hard on this project We have tried to do everything to come up
with a plan wbat we think will satisfy the homeowners and satisfy the
petitioner. It is nice idea to leave the back all vacant tut A is notrealistic
because the man owns the property. He shouldn't have to pay taxes on a piece
of vacant land that he can never use. I think this is a reasonable plan Ithink
that when he comes back for his site plan approval and he brings back his
landscaping, we will try to get as much as humanly possible landscaping and
give you the best buffer we can do. I believe this is the best we can do at this
time and that is the reason I am going to support it and I am going to vote for
it
Mr. Mc Cann: Please call the roll.
A roll call vote was taken with the following result:
AYES: Piercecchi, LaPine, Dolan, McCann
NAYS: Alaml as, Shane
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ABSENT: None
Mr. McCarm, Charman, declared the motion is canned and the foregoing resolution adopted.
It will go on to Council with an approving resolution. We will be reviewmg
the landscape plan If you want to leave your names and addresses, the staff
will notify you when we review the landscape plans so that we can put your
*1 into that
ITEM #7 Motion to hold a public hearing City rimming Commission
(60 day time I®il)
Mr. Pimcecchi, Secretary, announced the nest item on the agenda is Motion to hold a public
hearing purnmat to Council Resolution #354-01 and Section 23.01(a) of
Ordinance #543, as amended, to determine whether or not to amend Sections
18.58 of Article XVIII of the Livonia Zoning Ordnance to establish a 60 -day
time limit from the date a site plan is approved by Council for the submittal of
any additioml infomntion, such as landscape plans and signage in
accordance with the provisions set forth in Section 23.01(a) of the Livonia
Zoning Ordinance.
On a motion by Mr. LaPive, seconded by Mr. Pietcecchi and unommously approved it was
#8-135-2001 RESOLVED that, the City Planning Commission, punnoutto Council
Resolution #354-01 and pursuant to Section 23.01(a) of Ordinance #543, the
Zoning Ordinance of the City of Livonia, as amended, does hereby establish
and order that a public hearing be held to determine whether or not to amend
Sections 18.58 of Article XVIII of the Livonia Zoning Ordinance to establish
a 60 -day time I¢nit from the date a site plan is approved by Council for the
submittal of any additional infommtion, such as landscape plans and signage
inaccordancewiththeprovisionsset forlhin SwIion23.0l(a)ofthe Livonia
Zoning Ordinance.
FURTHER RESOLVED that, notice of such hearing shall be given as
provided in Section 23.05 of Ordinance 4543, the Zoning Ordinance of the
City ofLivoma, as amended, and that thereafter there shall be a report and
recommendation submitted to the City Council.
Mr. McCann, Chairman, declared the motion is canned and the foregoing resolution adopted
On a motion dory made, seconded and unanimously adopted the 830th Public Hearings and
Regular Meeting held on August 21, 2001, was adjourned at 9:18 p.m.
Dan Piercecchi, Secretary
Sanies C. McCann, Chairman
/nv
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